Greg Boyd: The Idolatry of Certainty-Seeking Faith

[@fantasybouthour6679]

This helped me so much. Over the years this idea of being a super Christian has put a lot of pressure on me and I'm sure other people.

[@The-DO]

God Bless

[@tyclosesloans]

This freed me today. Bless you brother.

[@matthewmichaelcrown3643]

profound thinker, my complements!

[@68pmpope]

Excellent.

[@JRis44]

Very interesting. *taking notes*

[@masonkelso8284]

amen

[@davidmeyersonestep]

What I see as the problem here is, one "making themselves feel certain about what they think is true," versus them being "persuaded of the actual truth of God's word." Those two are NOT the same! God will reveal (persuade) of the certainty and truth of His word, by His Spirit and not simply some word that others are saying! Example: One thing is CERTAIN, when you have faith to be healed, you CAN be healed (Acts 14:9). This is not the same as saying, when you have faith to be healed, you ARE healed.

[@panoply13]

Isn’t belief in Jesus a singular event that causes new birth, declaration of not guilty, and everlasting, irrevocable life?

[@paulsmith6695]

Yes

[@panoply13]

Greg, is not belief in Jesus or believe in the gospel a fight or flight belief?

[@JewandGreek]

Faith is not a psychological trick. It's spiritual. If you believe in your heart (or spirit) in the Resurrection and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord you'll be saved. Is belief in the resurrection a "psychological trick"? No. But it's impossible! Yeah, that's the idea. It's all of Him and none of us. Faith works the same way in other areas. He's misrepresenting Word of Faith theology.

[@originalhigene]

Hello Jew and Greek, Eugene here. Greg is not saying "no faith" but no "faith certain". Faith comes in degrees from "O you of little faith" to "I have not found so great a faith in Israel" to "Lord I'm struggling, please help my unbelief". I personally think there is a degree I call "sufficient faith" which is neither doubt nor certainty. I believe strongly that the strength or weakness of our beliefs are determined on the evidence we have that either supports acceptance or supports rejection of what it is we are deciding to believe or doubt. I have no idea what you mean by "Faith is not a psychological trick. It's spiritual. " and your following comments. How is it that "reason" is not "spiritual"?

[@JewandGreek]

@@originalhigene Psychology is the study of the mind, so a psychological trick would be a mental trick. Faith is of the heart or spirit, not the mind. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding" (Prov. 3:5) See how the Bible contrasts the two? I'm not saying that faith in God is unreasonable, but what Greg is referring to is faith for healing which would be in opposition to the laws of the natural and therefore not reasonable. The woman with the issue of blood, for example, was healed on her own faith. Now, is it reasonable to think that you'll be healed by touching somebody's clothing? No. But she was, because she believed it in her heart, or spirit. I hope that helps.

[@originalhigene]

Hello Jew and Greek, Eugene here. You are using "church" and "religious" language which I have a hard time understanding. I think you do not understand the problem as Greg and I understand it. We are not saying that there is no place for belief, which one does with their mind, but that we disagree with those who teach that one must have faith without any doubt whatsoever for the faith to "work".

[@matthewmichaelcrown3643]

silly idea

[@paulsmith6695]

He's heading for a heart attack, doctrine is real in this world,in every thing, he's let the sound of his own wheel drive him crazy

[@highvoltagemanna]

You have totally misrepresented the Word of Faith Movement and taught unbelief. As a person whose doctrine is routinely mischaracterized, you should realize the need to repent. Read a book by a primary source like K Hagin. Faith is simply believing in the heart, the promise of God. Faith comes by hearing; hearing by the word of God. Getting saved requires believing in the heart in a way that receives. Word of faith simply teaches agreement with the bible promise ie trusting God’s character and word as trustworthy. If you pray in faith and do not receive you can conclude in unbelief that healing is not for me or sickness is my thorn or you can continue to believe in patience till you receive since God’s word is true and one or a zillion other factors, spirits ,fallen world, unbelief is short circuiting or delaying reception. God is not withholding that which He definitely promised such as 1Pe 2.24 or Ja 5.14-15. Still have faith killing God is a capricious sovereign Calvinism banging around in your doctrine? As for prospering, God blesses the obedient. Faith in God’s word on the subject must overcome the unbelief “God is sending trials of sickness & poverty” mindset because double mindedness is doubt that undermines expectancy. Skeptics do not receive new birth, Spirit baptism, or whatever. I have laid hands on a lot of people and faith equals expectancy that opens the heart and draws power like the woman with the issue of blood. Aside from bad doctrine, we can expect to be blessed by God in our labor and sowing and we resist the devil who comes to steal kill destroy. I thought you were Spirit baptized in power.