GRRM's Old Drafts of A Song of Ice and Fire - (1 Hour of Interesting Things Found)

[@Zenmaster_0-0_]

I had a thought about the glass candles. 1. Blood keeps the people who are bound to the glass candles alive. 2. The maesters bleed on the glass candles trying to start them, as their final test. A test (ritual) that continuously feeds glass candles blood. 3. The faceless men (assassins) aren't trying to steal a glass candle, they are going to destroy one, to kill the person who is bound to it. Destroying the glass candle is them fulfilling their contract to kill some immortal person.

[@WatashiMachineFullCycle]

I don't know if I buy into this theory in earnest but I wanted to comment to say that it's metal af and I LOVE it

[@pyramidion5911]

Thats brilliant 👏

[@courtneycherry5582]

Do you think that's why Jacqueline Hagar was going up north/ got caught to begin with?

[@MrSilvUr]

“I should have thought that heat ill suits you Starks,” Littlefinger said. “Here in the south, they say you are all made of ice, and melt when you ride below the Neck.”

[@bloody_bubblegum]

melisandre got varys to get davos’s fingerbones for her, using his mermaid powers

[@glenda.mcclean]

I love it when Michael drops a new schizo asoiaf vid

[@pajamaparty01]

No need to bring mental illness in to this.

[@ubercomrade]

What does schizo mean?

[@ThommyofThenn]

​@@ubercomradeyeah it was a really poor choice of words

[@mischr13]

@@ubercomrade ableism

[@rexbanner7256]

It's another way to say crazy.

[@BearusAurelius]

23:05 To me this seems more likely to indicate that she is being spied on by Euron with a glass candle, hence the Blue lips, pale skin and twisted blade. The ice reference can easily just be tying Euron to the Others. We already know that Euron has plans for Dany and likely has a glass candle. I don't see a connection to Jon stabbing Dany at all in my opinion. That is just me spit-balling though. I really love the video. Great stuff.

[@basquat76]

The only one i wish he hadn't changed was the time jump. He was gonna jump 5 years in time which makes complete sense to me. Not only the age of the characters but also more development of the characters. Like Dany going to Asshai. It got mentioned way to much for us t not go there, and the character needed to go their to learn. And now i'm guessing that would be where Melisandras candle is, but he might have dropped that idea with it too.

[@J_Mock92]

An HOUR long video!?!?! This was the BEST thing to wake up early to today... Lol

[@coolichka42]

these videos along with LML are the perfect videos have in the background while im drawing warriors of antiquity

[@nirvana_helm]

i think the main idea grrm is trying to do with story "would the sacrifices of these heroes be enough to bring change and lead a path for balance & are they willing to sacrifice anything or potentially everything for it". given how he says "i like to write about conflict within heart" or "i like to praise effort of heroes not just their outcome". Sacrifices -> ned his honour, potentially his marriage to save jon. Dany in meereen. Jon sacrificing his love for yigrrite or vows of black for wildings. jamie's honour. Bran potentially his soul and his identity for this hivemind greenseer Etc. Balance -> how out of balance is westroes weather, balance b/w magic as sometime fire overpowers(Valriya) or ice (other) or old gods(weirwoods). Highlords having immense power over weaks. Pact b/w children of forest & first men.

[@steffurness]

A tricky thing about balance is how it's achieved (or thought to be achieved) - unity, duality, trinity... are more factions needed (5, 7, 9...), or do more factions essentially reduce back down to the simplest? Four, though often considered 'balanced' is definitely not - there is no shortage of wobbly 4-legged tables and chairs.

[@Hoosier765]

My daughter (Arya) turned 10 yesterday. Thanks for the video.

[@gabrielsanchez2123]

Sheesh, your daughter is younger than the lap we have had since the last ASIOF book. Congrats 🎉

[@anneconner1108]

Spoiled us with a hour long video??!?!? Awesome. A lot of people do videos about drafts and stuff but I just love the way you break things down and explain things. Never get bored listening to you.

[@kewl0210]

Man I love videos like this where it's basically just a straight hour of Michael Talks About Stuff just... talking about stuff.

[@MohammedKhan-od4np]

I just wanna say ive been watching all your videos and its crazy interesting hearing yor take on the white walker history its hella unique and youre not just parroting the same fan theories and information that eveyrone knows. keep it up

[@ThePoshboy1]

41:16 I thought you were going to mention Reed's strange magic where he potentionally "sunk" the tower of joy by turning its foundations into mud.

[@Boneslaw]

@MichaelTalksAboutStuff recent viewer of your channel. Your theories seem so accurate that I prefer them over all others. Honestly, if they're not cannon, I'll wish they were.

[@charlinethom1624]

Interesting, but I think we also have to keep in mind that it has been over a decade and that GRRM did recently say in his blog back in 2022 that he changed his mind on a lot of things and that the ending of the show and the books will be very different. “What I have noticed more and more of late...is my gardening is taking me further and further away from the television series. Yes, some of the things you saw on HBO in Game of Thrones you will also see in The Winds of Winter (though maybe not in quite the same ways)…but much of the rest will be quite different.” “One thing I can say, in general enough terms that I will not be spoiling anything: not all of the characters who survived until the end of Game of Thrones will survive until the end of A Song of Ice and Fire, and not all of the characters who died on Game of Thrones will die in A Song of Ice and Fire...And the ending? You will need to wait until I get there. Some things will be the same. A lot will not.” --GRRM

[@nirvana_helm]

i think the very broad strokes of story would be most similar but execution and journey would be very different. Given how in an interview he said "if someone on internet figured out the twist that the butler did it which was of book 6 when book 1 was published, and you as author read, panicked and changed it, then you have ruined the whole book" as those seed previously planted now mean nothing and would have to forge new ones to make it make sense.

[@charlinethom1624]

​​​@@nirvana_helmWell, GRRM said something different; it's not me saying that the book ending will be different from the show; it's him. Also, he planted a lot of seeds in his story, and a lot of seeds were dropped or grew into something completely different from what was originally intended. However, the fact remains that the ending will be different; that's GRRM words, not mine, how different remains to be seen.

[@nirvana_helm]

@@charlinethom1624 No, sorry but to confirm it again i looked it up title, "George RR Martin on Why He Doesn't Read Fan Theories" . yeah i intentionally missed the part where he says he doesn't want to read cuz of him putting fan's ideas as his own in books. exact quote “If you’ve planned your book that the butler did it… and you suddenly change in midstream and it was the chambermaid who did it, then you screw up the whole book.”

[@charlinethom1624]

​​@@nirvana_helmWell, going by his recent words, he clearly changed his mind on a lot of things, and his planted seeds grew into a different story than he might have originally intended. How different? Well, only he can say, and we will only find out once he finally drops these damn books.

[@nirvana_helm]

@@charlinethom1624 yeah true , hopefully all changes are for best. It seems like fan might write books by themselves at this point.

[@thisguy8106]

Davos never actually LOOKS at the bones. Only touches the bag. Could have easily been swapped while he was in the cells at Dragonstone, imo.

[@plasmiusphantom]

He'd already lost them by then. Would have to be before the Blackwater.

[@MasterDuelMax]

I've been looking forward to a video breaking down the drafts. Hype!

[@captainlazereyes8851]

Man you’re one of my ASOIAF KZbinrs. I hope you’ll be on a stream with David LB at some point (:

[@mfgrobin9657]

side note relating to eldenring. i try to be spoilerfree tho. there is a character called Goldmask which is a golden order fundamentalist and essentially a sort of mathmatician of said order. his questline reminds me greatly of what you talked about the Maesters and if you care enough but dont wanna play the game yet (even so i recommend that a lot too) there is a great Video by SmoughTown about Goldmask. the parallels are apparent id say.

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

I conflate the maesters with more the finger readers than gold mask but what you've said here has got me reconsidering! They both have the uncanny rain man like ability to "translate/interpret" the small movements of the fingers. Goldmasks interpretations seem to be made with his intellegence AND faith both whilst the finger readers are a thing of faith. The whole thing makes me think of Our real world dilemma of trying to marry Einstein's General Relativity with that of quantum mechanics. All I know is that I do not know and I'm here for it!

[@mfgrobin9657]

i got u@@Jasonmakesvideo

[@leomesser415]

I know what I’m doing for the next hour

[@bakedpotato7858]

Arya killed that Nights watch deserter in Braavos and kept his boots and that got my attention when Melisandre mentions boots for glamoring. Was wondering if that was gonna be a thing later

[@Trofusky]

We getting past the wall with this one

[@jswagaudio]

I think that another option for when George says he hasn’t quite figured out Marwyn is that he hasn’t figured out his writing style or his mannerisms.

[@wumpafruit9234]

I always thought that blue lips and pale skin ind Dany's dream referred to Euron, but the Old Ice theory is pretty cool, whether it becomes canon or not. This also makes me wonder if Jon's resurrection will be more sinister than we thought. I can see him coming back as a vengeful new Night King after all he went through for the greater good of Westeros, and the betrayel he suffered at the hands of his comrades anyway. This would make an interesting parallel to Dany's villianous transformation in Mereen. Fire and Ice turning heel to rain destruction down on Westeros, before cancelling each other out in the end sounds good to me

[@gabebartlett9680]

Yeah I definitely think the passage relates to Euron. It makes sense for the Evil Azor Ahai set up that’s going on with Euron On Jon’s resurrection being more sinister, I do think it’s possible that multiple things could go into his resurrection. Maybe his body is other-rized while his soul is still in Ghost and then at some point there’s a ritual maybe with Melisandre where Jon’s soul is placed back in his body, and Fire plays a role. Making Jon both a Ice and Fire wight

[@HaroldTheHerald]

Waking a dragon from stone can only mean burning stannis’s daughter waking jon

[@taco4242]

After talking to you for over 3 hours the other night, now an hour listening to you, you're going to be the voice in my head.

[@michaeltalksaboutstuff]

I hope I serve you well as your internal monologue, if I start telling you to throw things down wells don't listen

[@taco4242]

Maybe there is a well near our compound in Texas.

[@milkmilk2328]

A question comes to mind, it makes sense that benjen is not coldhands, and may have a greater purpose, if the others in chapter one were looking for a stark.

[@zvrdoz4988]

I live in Houston and had no idea about the Cushing Library, I'll have to visit one of these days

[@daboos6353]

Your channel is easily the best new ASOIAF channel, keep it up

[@kahlilg9824]

That earlier version of the glass candle lighting as the comet passes was amazing they should’ve kept it

[@feral7523]

Melisandre obviously used the same westeros Dive crew that dredged up the undead dragon for the white walker inc up north for Davos's finger bones.

[@cledosliop4175]

Mark this video for later watch. It’s so exciting to see it’s an hour long🥳!

[@phnompenhandy]

Melissandra insists on having a fire perpetually on the go. I've long wondered if she has a sliver of a glass candle beneath the kindling, to keep her young. Against that is the issue, as you say, of the black candles not being 'activated' until the dragons hatched, but maybe her Assai-sourced 'souvenir' works differently.

[@michaeltalksaboutstuff]

Yeah I do wonder if it could even be the case that her candle is still in Asshai somewhere like the red temple. I think the idea of magic still existing there is possible even when the candles wouldn't burn elsewhere. Perhaps she has some knowledge that there is a fire there that must not be allowed to go out and her response is to have a constant fire going. There seems to be a lot of PTSD going on with her enslavement and whatever happened so I could kinda see it being a response to knowing she is bound to a flame somewhere that she might want an always burning fire near her. But also she might have the candle somewhere herself and the idea of it being hidden somewhere like that is interesting. We have only been in her head once so I am sure we will have to learn a lot more to figure out what exactly is going on. It is really interesting to me to learn originally glass candles were introduced right alongside her in the same chapter and the line about the candle flames burning in her red red eyes was about a glass candle flame. It to me makes the connection really strong.

[@BeteBlanc]

I appreciate the old drafts suggest a theory I've been putting forward for a while. Jon will escape in or with Ghost and return the the Fist. I wouldn't mind someone applying the logic of the Dany essays to Jon. Dany's is not the only character struggling with their own values. People tend to give Jon a more rosy interpretation but I think the point of both characters is identical. The outcome may not be as much the same, but their journey is certainly built on the same tests of compromising values. There is a question left behind about the glass candles that may be worth exploring though. We know explicitly of one and are suggested another. Marwyn's and Nightwalker's. If any of his previous designs survived that should mean two characters that can't die. The funny thing is, we have two characters that roughly fit. Dany and Beric. Granted Mel probably has one, her candle would already be lit. Question is which candle would apply to whom. Did the burning of Drogo light the one in Qarth or the one in Old Town? If resurrection is indeed connected to candles, which one was used for Beric? Could it be Marwyn who's playing the game influencing it by raising Beric and Cat?

[@rpproductions6241]

I think Melissandre swapped Davos' bag of fingerboard before he left with Stannis to attack King's Landing, and he was carrying something else. As to the why, I don't know.

[@michaeltalksaboutstuff]

That is an interesting thought, I like this explanation.

[@rpproductions6241]

@michaeltalksaboutstuff I think it makes a lot more sense then she somehow acquired them after the battle. It could be possible she took them to glamour someone else to look like Davos in the event of his death (she did after all, tell Stannis he would lose if he didn't take her to the battle or something like that), since Stannis puts a lot of faith in what Davos says. She may have seen a vision of Davos "drowning" initially.

[@TheLastSoundNL]

It is probably the case that Jon was older than Robb. I still think it's possible Jon could be Ned's son, there is an account of Borrell who he suspects to be Jon's mother when talking to davos. The annotation says Borrell is displaying ignorance and Jon was born around the sack of King's Landing. Catelyn believes Jon was conceived after the marriage. Catelyn's assumptions are pretty spotty. But Borrell would be far earlier. I don't think Borrell's story is correct either but it is there for a reason plus the annotation. To doubt the timeline of events and Jon's age. I think the truth is in the middle. Not the woman Borrell suspects and a bit later, but 9 months before the sack could still be before the wedding. In Jon's early chapter at the wall, he mentions around Benjen's supposed return he turned 15 while earlier both him and Robb were both 14 while sparring. Before that Robb's name day wasn't mentioned. we hear Robb grow and get stronger but not his age. Jon being older is still something Ned would want to keep hidden even if he is his son.

[@plasmiusphantom]

White Crown is another confirmation that Naga's teeth(Grey king's crown) was weirwood.

[@Firmth]

I've long felt marwin was a red herring, has too much useful info to ever actually reach dany and reveal it to us or help her use it, but your theories have made me think he will be the one to steal viserion and either get himself and the dragon killed or deliver it to aegon

[@lutilda]

The main theory I've heard about how Mel got Davos' finger bones is that she stole them by swapping hia bones for fakes/ someone else's before the battle.

[@Henbot]

I think only thing here that is a big leap is the idea of Jon stabbing Dany. The show back end can’t be used as accurate metrics because they stopped interacting with GRRM and did do their own plotting. Could someone stab Dany - sure but to use Jon as the stabber is too much of a leap right now and the plot point wasn’t part of the plot points GRRM gave them.

[@gabebartlett9680]

Yeah this passage definitely feels more related to Euron than Jon imo. I’m pretty sure D&D are also on record saying they came up with the Jon and Dany ending themselves. Also if they were told by George that Jon will kill Dany, that would’ve been their 3 oh shit moments they talked about

[@ThommyofThenn]

5:40 this is one thing i've never been clear on; with this "love triangle" thing. Would it have been a Jaime/Cersei type of relationship with Arya sometimes including Tyrion to join in their couplings?

[@nononono3421]

The description of the life-extending property of glass candle sounds way too much like what Cersei says to Jaime in his dream.

[@t1ll316]

Couldn’t the blue lips be a reference to Euron, who drinks shade of the evening, has the goal to marry Dany and clearly knows what he’s doing on some regarding a lot of things

[@gerardjagroo]

In the Jon draft Ghost smells *_'hunters'_* living men and dead men near Bran. _Who are the living men hunting Bran?!!!_ In the show they had Locke track down Bran, is this a book thing too?

[@conniesuper9892]

Howland Reed was on the Isle of Faces for a 2 year winter before leaving for the tourney at Harrenhal. A 2 year winter honing his magics...2 years! Is Bran with Bloodraven for a long winter?What did Howland learn being there for a 2 year winter?

[@michaelzimmer2118]

I found a new comparison between bran the builder and Marika I left it as two comments in your last video

[@nononono3421]

The original Ice; the catspaw dagger.

[@The.Kyle.Scott.]

Mel would just use wights to dive into Blackwater Bay and bring the bag of finger bones back to the surface. You know, just like Rhaegar did with Viserion north of the Wall. 😂

[@Trustworthy_McLegitimate]

awww... I dont want Victarion to die yet, i wish he gets revenge on Euron...

[@jamalanderson3891]

What about using half a heart beat? What about everyone in asoiaf can eat properly? They eat an orange and half of it spills down their face

[@shaftomite007]

I thought Davos Seaworthy kept his finger bones in a little bag he wore around his neck?

[@aislynnmari]

Who is Anne-Marie? Maybe she can get coaching from Chinchilla, bc I already heard of Chinchilla before this lol

[@jenny_of_oldstones3523]

Any chance that Jon could have been born via C-section? That might be a good reason to have the Kings Guard stopping it? I mean we've seen in Hot D women have no say in what happens to their bodies. Absolutely no body autonomy. In either direction.

[@michaeltalksaboutstuff]

That is an interesting thought. I would say there could be a chance, but I hadn't really considered it much. Idk if a C-section with the medical tech of Westeros would leave much time for a "promise me" situation but I am no doctor nor have I ever given birth.

[@jenny_of_oldstones3523]

@@michaeltalksaboutstuff I also keep thinking of how these women are basically doomed to go e birth to these magic babies and die for them. Ultimate blood sacrifice. I think a Mother's blood is the real power, not Kings Blood. There's a lot of foreshadowing surrounding these magical child births of both Dani and Jon. I mean come on Dani was born and her birth heralded a powerful magical child with that storm. Am I crazy or did Jon's birth precede a bad Winter?

[@SSolemn]

But Lyanna does have "King's Blood" too

[@jenny_of_oldstones3523]

​@@SSolemndoesn't matter it's the sacrifice of their mothers that brought them to life.

[@jenny_of_oldstones3523]

I think Dany & Jon were born via C section

[@AnnabelTheGoldsmith]

Ohohohoohohohohohoohhhhhhhhhhhhh 🎉

[@plasmiusphantom]

Bronze First Men Rune is Ice to Gold/steel Valeryian Rune Fire

[@thegreenmage6956]

Pssst, dude; rename the title, call it Cut Content 👌 Instantly more views.

[@mfgrobin9657]

nice

[@ThommyofThenn]

yes

[@bjrnbrynemo9059]

1:43 lol "Words are wind" isn't even that cool of a phrase...

[@johnballard7775]

bro the books are done but he has them set to release after he dies

[@Grogeous_Maximus]

For for purpose?

[@ziggystardust457]

Cold Hands being Jon Snow could be a thing

[@jenny_of_oldstones3523]

I love Dany's "Im just a young girl" thing. Its such utter bull because shes brilliant and knows exactly what is going on and she plays these people like shes a silly young dingbat...but NOPE!!

[@avocal2027]

very dark souls bone fire here the glass candle

[@Grogeous_Maximus]

bone fire

[@anthonyc806]

First

[@ThommyofThenn]

Lucky

[@Grogeous_Maximus]

first what