GT4 RS Chases Toyota GR86 Cup & McLaren 765LT | The speed difference might surprise you!

[@marvinzhang3734]

Those gr86 cup car are fast as hell😂

[@ItsTrackTime]

Yep, gen1 was fast and fun to drive on the track - gen2 is even faster. For a 230 hp car they punch way above their weight.

[@hernanorihuela3230]

Another great illustrative vid; thanks, Barry. And yes, the GR 86 sneaked up on you

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks! The GR86s are great track machines and for the $$$ pretty hard to beat.

[@garytsuikk]

Never ran with Chin, but it looks like you can either use hand signal or turn signal as point bys. IMO, an organizer should just stick to one style so eveyone is consistent. With regards to the pass by the GR86 without point by, I would say that you may have left your hand out hanging for a bit too long and he took it as a point by for him as well (although many clubs stress that one point by for one car only), so without hearing what the other driver says, I would give him the benefit of a doubt that it was what he was thinking at that moment. I also think that in HPDE, the leading car should always stay on racing line and make the passing car go offline to pass you. Not sure what you did there by going offline to let the McLaren go was an ideal choice. More importantly, I know they say if the leading car has more HP than the car passing, you should lift so the car can pass you, but in your case, I don't think it was wise for you to slow way down to let him pass because he has the power to pass you. In a way, you artificially created this speed differential that you eluded to in your video that could be dangerous.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Yes the mixing of signals is new. In the past it was only done with "point by" but recently they let turn signals creep into the mix which I'm not a fan of. Many times drivers turn the signals on and forget to turn them off so the cars behind don't know if they are really signaling a point by or not. And yes the rules are one signal per pass so to signal two cars passing under Chin you must pull your arm back in and then move it out again from the 2nd car. As far as going off line to allow the pass, we are not racing, so if a car is coming up behind me with a full head of steam I'm going to give them the line and let them move through quickly ahead of the esses which starts at turn 3. I don't feel there is any reason to contest the line and make him slow down and find a path "off line" around me as we enter the esses.

[@patrickmerchant930]

@@ItsTrackTime I think I do see window nets for the gr cup cars, might be hard for them to stick their hands through the net to signal.

[@kinosgarage]

COTA is a high HP track. McLarens do really well on it as they can turn sharply with the aero and suspension. You are driving with egos my friend lol. Great commentary.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks, yeah the power of a McLaren can be very helpful to push your lap times down but when you actually analyze where the advantage is coming from it's mostly on the straights. Whenever someone tells me a low lap time I always ask what their top speed is on the back straight. If they're doing 170mph you have to readjust your initial impression.

[@kinosgarage]

@@ItsTrackTime the GT3/Rs variant have a greater advantage in the corners but stock 720s and S spiders are running 2:17. Andy Hollis runs 2:14 in a stock car. Those cars can still handle really well. Straights are a big deal to makeup time for sure and power is key. I’m more the likely taking mine out for the McLaren / Lambo houston event on the 2nd. This would be the first time taking the new car out on the track.

[@ItsTrackTime]

2:14 is a great lap time! You don't see many street cars in that range. Would be interesting to see a video of one of those laps with the telemetry overlayed to learn from it.

[@Kraber_porsche]

@@kinosgarage that 2:14 was not a stock 720s.. Collin’s 720 is “stock”, still takes 19s on slicks to make that 2:17 happen.

[@kinosgarage]

@@Kraber_porsche Collin's car is not modified or tuned. It actually has steel brakes, which are much heavier than stock. Running proper track tires isn't a bad thing. Andy's car isn't tuned or modified aside of a track alignment and running with wider track tires. Is your GT3 stock? I know you run with Collin at COTA and know that his car isn't modified in the sense of what we would consider a modded car.

[@86drive86]

Nice video, great commentary about what’s going on and illustrative of what smaller lightweight cars can do in terms of handling to keep up with far more expensive cars. FWIW out here in California with the track day orgs I run with, Advanced run groups can pass without a point by… always recommended for courtesy and safety for sure, but not required. IDK if the GR Cup guys you had there might be from another region and not familiar with your group’s rules? not that it’s an excuse, they should follow the ruies of each org they are running with. So for my own safety even though I have plenty of track days experience, I tend to run in Intermediate groups here because they require a point by. BTW I have ‘similar’ cars to you, I track a supercharged BRZ and just got a 718 GTS 4.0 as the new toy.

[@ItsTrackTime]

If I knew everyone in the group was "sane" I would be OK running without a point by but it just takes one unpredictable person to screw the whole thing up and cause an accident. The rules are always clearly stated by Chin, they just choose to ignore them... Great taste in cars! My BRZ is also supercharged but I still couldn't keep up with the Caymans so I stopped debugging all of my mods and just bought a turnkey 987.1 race car which greatly simplified my track days.

[@Shawnrraines]

Subbed, love this stuff.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Ha! Thanks for watching.

[@Proto2o]

That looks fun. Advance groups in the motorcycle track days of things, pass within inches of each other. These passes seem insanely safe in comparison.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I have always loved bikes and still watch more MotoGP than F1 but falling on asphalt doesn't appeal to me. Fortunately every time I looked at getting a bike I eventually became sane again and walked away.

[@ioannisioannou7518]

Good stuff! Had the toyobarus been running a supercharger setup to mitigate the straightaway performance, they'd be right there with you...

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks! That was the path I took to the track 12 years ago. I bought the 2nd Gen1 BRZ that was shipped to Austin back in 2013 and learned how to drive it on track at H2R. From there I moved to COTA and got my but kicked by the Caymans. I then supercharged it and ran MS109 through it until the motor blew - Still couldn't keep up with the Caymans. Next I had the motor rebuilt with forged internals, lowered the compression ratio to 10:1, and increased the blower pressure. The car was fast but it was very difficult to keep cool on track and I was only able to keep up with the stock Caymans. Then I joined the crowd and just bought a Cayman...

[@ioannisioannou7518]

@@ItsTrackTime gen 2 brz here. I am running 1:45's at Road Atlanta and keep up with my mk6 R that's track prepped despite being 100hp down on power... Light weight and low CG makes such a difference and your video illustrates perfectly. Bet an SC setup on a gen 2 will make it competitive with the caymans re: 2.4 displacement. Running full exhaust & tune gets you up to 250hp/tq (wheels) so assume 280ish on that platform makes things spicy, for 1/2 the cost. I hear you tho, if you can afford the cayman (and the RS no less) that's a no brainer. No wet sump issues too...

[@ItsTrackTime]

Awesome results with your car! My Gen1 is at 290hp to the wheels so it's very fun to drive especial when it's wet. Low CG makes for very predictable slides - in fact we also drive BRZ at Dirtfish and that's even more fun! I love these cars and thought about getting a Gen2 as well given the manuals are going to be extinct very soon.

[@ioannisioannou7518]

@@ItsTrackTime Amen! Give me a shout if you find yourself southerly for any auto-x or track day/HPDE (RA, AMP, Barber).

[@ItsTrackTime]

Will do, thanks!

[@Zoloist]

would love to see you run it with the 86 on track.

[@ItsTrackTime]

You want to see me run my 86 again on track?

[@Zoloist]

​@@ItsTrackTime Yeah, drive it with some commentary behind it. I worded my first comment pretty weird my bad.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I might be able to make that happen...

[@elcentinela3434]

Great video

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for watching!

[@NitroAdventure]

Could you make a video going over the gr86

[@ItsTrackTime]

Sure, I have a lot of mods on my car so it might a long video.

[@JeLifeCoach]

@@ItsTrackTime we dont care - we like long informative videos! Serve it up!

[@Bazoozoos]

Cool video :-)

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for the visit

[@DarkTouch]

did those guys get a talking to for the lack of point by? ill be at chin next month. i see you've registered. planning on bringing the 4RS then.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Awesome hope to see you there! Pass without point by happens more often than the organizers like to admit and there is never much done about it especially when it's comes from a race team.

[@ChinTrackDaysWill]

@@ItsTrackTimewas this brought to the attention of Chin management at the event? Issues like this are always addressed when we know about them, always. I've addressed issues with all types of pro drivers from Daytona 500 winners to IMSA champions. In the Advanced group, point-bys should be seamless, and be given well before a faster car reaches your bumper. It seems that this needed to be addressed with some of the GR drivers. But also, the lead car should never go off-line, or slow, to accomodate a faster car behind to pass, by doing that in T4, you likely slowed enough to confuse the drivers behind and the safest thing for them to do was to pass. Many pro-teams have participated with Chin without issue at many different tracks, including the GR drivers. Chin managers usually drive in the Advanced group to be sure everyone is abiding by the rules and only rarely find issues. And when found, they are addressed quickly. Will - Chin Track Day Event Manager

[@ziggyfreud5357]

Power to weight makes a difference

[@ItsTrackTime]

I sure does and most people only focus on power when comparing cars. Stripping weight makes such a huge difference on track.

[@Leowavekid]

Absoultly

[@jim1013yyf]

does chin require point-by for advanced group?

[@ItsTrackTime]

Yes, you can pass anywhere, but it always requires a point by.

[@realstradman]

@@ItsTrackTime Interesting how yo guys rely on point by. In Europe largely we don't use point by. Sure sometimes the guy in front may indicate that he's moving to the side for you, but generally speaking if there's space on the left side you simply overtake as long as you're not suddenly diving in last minute on the inside of a corner.

[@ItsTrackTime]

The videos I've seen from the Nürburgring seem to show turn signals being used for point bys and the drivers held off until they received the signal before making the pass. Is this not the case?

[@realstradman]

​@@ItsTrackTimeyes some people indicate but it doesn't always happen or is necessary. In the end as long as the guy in front holds their line the guy coming from behind knows the speed differential, and can make a reasonable assessment to see if there is space to pass. The idea is you're not running with nutters who are suddenly going to swerve into you for no apparent reason. Is that foolproof? No of course not and you're going to get the very rare accident sometimes. And? That's life right? You can't nanny everything..

[@sebdavid]

@@ItsTrackTime @realstradman I track both in Europe and North America and the point-by method in NA is really dumb. Having to take your hand off the wheel, and then proceed to make a gesture through the window (which can be a challenge in some cars with window nets and for some smaller drivers to get their hand above the roof line) is absolutely counterproductive and dangerous. It's nuts when you think about it! In Europe, when there is a indicator requirement (usually only advised, not enforced), you just indicate to the side you're going to stay on, exactly like you would on the street. It's intuitive since you're doing the same on public roads, it just makes sense (I'm staying on that side), very easy to see by everyone, and you keep your hands on the wheel. It also allows you to keep your window closed, which makes sense in case of a rollover (no hands coming out of the windows during the roll a la Travis Pastrana). And if you come up on someone very slow, who obviously are in over their head and not watching their mirrors, you don't have to stay behind them for 2 laps until they actually see you and remember they have to point you by - you just pick a safe place to pass and do so.

[@alexperry2430]

That GR Cup driver is not a guy. It’s a 19 year old female….

[@ItsTrackTime]

I didn't meet any of the GR86 drivers. I would assume they are all racing in the GR86 Cup series?

[@Nulltinhat]

Watched the other video. Came here for this. Woot!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Glad you found it!

[@blendlinegarage42]

i hope your hand gestures was the middle finger 😅

[@ItsTrackTime]

Ha! No comment.

[@realstradman]

Unnecessary in my view. I mean you can see the guy was peddling as fast as that thing could possibly go and he was doing very well. Sure he was relying on momentum to keep himself going as he didn't have the horsepower advantage, and takes a lot more for these cars to get up to speed again, so cut him some slack and let him take the corner. Geez it wasn't a lifesaving race was it.

[@blendlinegarage42]

@@realstradman its called HPDE and not race for a good reason. There are rules and not passing without an explicit point by is a very important one. The issue is that the front car will move in toward apex and if the rear car decides to take the pass he jeopardizes safety of both drivers. Its just not worth it. If he waited 10 seconds, he would have lost him in the straight and the GR wouldnt see the 4RS again. I track an ND miata and many times ive had to deal with the frustration of not getting point bys from higher hp cars but none of that is an excuse to do an unsafe pass like the GR guy did. Zero respect for inflated egos who risk other peoples safety for sake of stroking their gigantic ego

[@realstradman]

​@@blendlinegarage42no I know what it's called. We just call them track days. Same thing. And I understand why you guys do it. Personally, I think it's over enthusiastic application of health and safety. This doesn't guarantee there won't be accidents either as nothing can. Nonetheless we've been doing this for years now without serous issues and it works. Horses for courses as they say.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Are you referring to the no point by at turn 11 or the pass with no point by at turn 4? I don't have any issues with the lack of point by coming into 11. It slows your lap down but, so what, that happens all the time. My issue is with the pass with "no point by" at turn 4. There is only one communication mechanism between drivers at these events and it's hand signals. When a driver decides to ignore this communication channel and just unpredictably shoot through a hole that is rapidly closing it creates accidents. Several of my friends have been struck by drivers ignoring the point by mechanism so I don't have any tolerance for these drivers. In fact I only drive with Chin and PCA now because other organizers didn't test the drivers before moving them to the advanced run groups. This lack of oversight created too much of this type of chaos which ultimately led to accidents.