Porsche GT4 RS | Randy Pobst vs Amateur | Let’s Break it Down!

[@concretevol]

Man 4.5 seconds behind Randy is actually something to brag about in my view. Great job and really appreciate the time you took to put this together.

[@ItsTrackTime]

It’s still a huge gap but at least I know the car can do it. Good to hear you find the content useful. Thanks for the positive feedback.

[@billpennock8585]

How much faster were you able to go after this analysis?

[@ItsTrackTime]

Right after this event we shut down for the summer - Texas heat. We'll be staring back up in the fall so we'll see where this goes...

[@shaneb5284]

Love the analysis, thanks for putting this together and sharing.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for watching! A lot to learn by observing the differences in lines, speeds, and styles.

[@alexioflexio8818]

i was on an endurance team with randy at Sonoma.. he was over 10 seconds faster than me... so, you're doing GREAT man! thanks for the analysis.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Wow that must have been an awesome experience! Thank you!

[@drivingnirvana5164]

Very interesting! If you see how he moves the wheel, he works with the car to feel the real limit - you drive extremely clean, smooth and and nice but leave grip limits on the table…..I would argue this is normal in the club scene in warmer climates with people driving within the limits and loose quite a lot of experience of driving above the traction limits and car control. We who grew up on frozen lakes have the car control/attack but instead lack the very good precision you have. What make the pros is that they combine both car control with your precision lap after lap after lap.🥳

[@ItsTrackTime]

Agreed. We go up north and drive in the dirt from time to time at Dirtfish - that is a completely different world. Much of what we know doesn't translate to rally. Completely different skill set.

[@jcims]

Oh dang I never really thought about that herky jerky wheel action as probing for traction limits but that makes total sense. Great comment!

[@simonrapala7616]

Phenomenal analysis. Randy is world class but your analytical approach here was terrific.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you! Great to see you found it useful.

[@castanedajr21]

Randy regularly comes to Lucky Dog and drives several teams cars. The fastest amateur drivers are about a second slower in their own car. Randy just jumps into random cars and is immediately way faster than guys who have been driving the same car for years. Very impressive

[@ItsTrackTime]

Randy’s the man. Amazing talent!

[@rich2579]

11:54 at turn 11 Randy being 2mph slower is trumped by the fact that he’s also driving a shorter distance around that turn and able to get on the throttle in a straight line more quickly. In addition, he’s not hitting the brakes nearly as hard as you. You guys brake around the same time but his braking is less aggressive, slowing down “slower” than you. Essentially he’s carrying more overall speed and therefore more distance over a shorter amount of time, toward that apex despite Randy hitting a lower min speed at that corner.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I think you’ve summarized it well. I need to rethink my technique on turn 11.

[@Jerraldough]

Looks like pro can also consistently put more power down on the way out from that. Car is pointed better and has less lateral weight being carried sideways

[@tylerrussell9217]

look at how progressive his steering is into T11. It looks to me as though he's trailing more brake to just before the apex, permitting the tires a split second to "just turn" creating a more advantageous apex angle.

[@yichen9418]

@@ItsTrackTime I think the main difference is you lift off the break entirely once you turn in at turn 11 while Randy was still trailing breaking helping him i) slower down slower than you do and ii) increasing front tire grip and enable him to point earlier

[@yichen9418]

Sorry and im talking about turn 15 not turn 11

[@theapplepaul]

One of the coolest comparisons ever. You are not the average 'amateur'. More like semi-pro. Amazing to be that close. Especially with all traction control on for your laps.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! I'm just an amateur trying to get better, but thanks for the vote of confidence.

[@boxterjeff]

You both are gifted drivers. If I could be within 10 seconds I would throw a party. Great energy management for sure. You are a humble man and that is why you learn so well and are fast too! Works in aviation too.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you very much. I'm just trying to learn and you can't do much better then Randy when it comes to that!

[@11LandShark11]

I too had an opportunity to swap car with Randy at VIR a couple years ago, same day, and had so much fun together. I saw your graphs and one of the best thing to learn is to not just look at the V-Max, but also the speed at the apex, and most important, his throttle and braking graphs! That's where you can see where did you lose time or what did he do.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Awesome experience right? I believe I have that data available just need to download it from my Solo2.

[@jordanmd]

Great analysis on the better lines for the more challenging turns. I’m grateful for all the work you put into this video! I’ll definitely use it as I do more track days at COTA.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Great to hear you find this useful! This is they type of feedback that keeps me going.

[@Banshee19MTP]

Fantastic video and analysis!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you very much. Really appreciate your feedback.

[@DQSpider]

TBH I'd be happy as hell to be within five seconds of Randy on almost any track you care to name

[@ItsTrackTime]

I'm just trying to improve and Randy is a great model for that!

[@madmage2676]

Thanks for posting this, awesome analysis and very useful. Kudos for being within 5 seconds of Randy. I don't know your experience, but I would be thrilled if I was that close to Randy's times.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I'm glad you found it useful. Five seconds is a lot but I'm grateful to have a map on how to close it now. Before this I was just experimenting and hoping for some positive results.

[@ServinADeuce]

Hit those curbs man. Porsche knows how to build a car

[@ItsTrackTime]

Ha! I hit some of them but others just mess me up.

[@FragEightyfive]

Great analysis. Driving fast is not what a lot of people expect.For most the car is more capable than you think it is. At some of the local tracks here, when up 'upgraded' to a better performing and more capable car, I was at first disappointed that i wasn't much quicker than my old car or motorcycle. One day i just sent it and realized there was a transition from where it felt like it was losing grip, to where it really was losing grip. In between the car settled down and was substantially faster than my old car, and i was able to pull the momentum i was expecting. Changing the suspension setup could change this, but I think the current setup is ideal for a car that is primarily a street car. Under 'normal' street driving, I should never get into a situation where i lose grip and there is a sizable buffer zone to that point.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I think changing the suspension will remove some of the unsettled “nervousness” that the car currently exhibits thereby giving me more confidence to push the car harder.

[@notdreadyet33]

This is cool. One thing that stands out immediately is you will save seconds by left foot braking. It's an easy skill to learn with a sim and doesn't take as long as people may think.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I'm still conflicted on that one. A pro-driver, not Randy, told me not to bother with it. I've seen left foot brakers with rotors glowing bright red in broad daylight because they were overlapping the two inputs. Wouldn't hurt to try on the sim I guess.

[@notdreadyet33]

@ItsTrackTime Try it, you already have the sim! Easiest tip that helped me early was keeping your heel planted on the floor. You'll be used to slamming the pedal with your left foot as if it was a clutch, so just rest your left foot on the floor and modulate the pedal with the ball of your foot. You have almost the identical sim I do, you can use it to transition extremely quickly. I would bet my house that there isn't a modern pro who isn't left foot braking, there's just too much time you're giving up not using it. Even 3 pedal rally guys are using their left foot on the brakes when they can. It seems like an otherworldly skill at first, but you have a built in cheat code, the sim! Document your starting point on the sim and you'll be shocked at what you're giving up in a single sector. Good luck man, jealous you get to drive COTA!

[@elevvfr800]

Fascinating analysis! This is one of my favorite tracks and your step-by-step approach is great fun. Of course, the wonderful six-cylinder background music only improves the experience.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for the positive feedback. It's always great to hear people find this format educational as well as entertaining.

[@Bocvn68]

Randy is a Driving Olympian God, to have the opportunity to learn him is a great honor. Respect 💯. We will expect you to shave off some seconds next.👍🏾👍🏾

[@ItsTrackTime]

Agreed so I'm trying to capitalize as much as possible from this opportunity!

[@Airtimevideo]

Another great video! I look forward to see if you make adjustments based on this analysis and what the results are. This is why I like having a home track and choose to visit it more than others. I can really gauge my progress.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you very much for your continued support of the channel! Adjustments are coming and Randy will make another go at it when we’ve dialed it in to the best of our ability.

[@genkilabs]

This is a great analysis. Thank you

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for watching. Good to hear you found it useful.

[@markbeswetherick4534]

Very cool video, thanks for putting it together. It gave me an appreciation for how technical racing is, and how much analysis goes into it to be fast. I have gone to Speed Vegas / Exotics Racing a few times, most recently in a GT3 RS, and had fun seeing my times come down. I don't think I'd want to challenge Randy in my own car, too risky! Minor feedback on your excellent video: I didn't know you were on COTA until I scrolled down to the comments. Maybe a 10 second intro ala 'Here we are at the legendary Circuit of the Americas in Texas' would set a context, especially for newbies to racing.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Like any sport, it's all in the details so after you learn the line it comes down to analyzing data and making small adjustments. Having a great reference like Randy really helps this process. Most of my content is from Cota but you make a good point, we need to clearly state the track for new viewers.

[@trackntrail2869]

Fascinating video. Thanks for making this!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@stevewages]

I’m not a track guy, but I’d be happy to get within a minute of Randy!😂

[@ItsTrackTime]

Ha! It's more about what you can learn from the differences than the absolute times.

[@midlifemods]

Dude! This video is amazing! Love the breakdown. I had the pleasure of meeting and interviewing Randy at Sanoma. Great guy.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you very much! Always good to hear people enjoyed the video.

[@Black66]

Great video! I enjoyed the breakdown of each turn. Once you get these down you will be flash number two.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you! I'm working on it. Should have an update video very soon.

[@RoadSpySUPERMOUNTS]

Thanks so much for this, really appreciate your data driven approach. I think we amateurs can apply these differences compared with a pro driver to up our own games.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for watching. I agree, you don't learn much from people that are worse than you at a particular activity but you learn a lot from those that are better.

[@MrSchn3ll]

This is such an awesome analysis, keep up the great work!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you very much. This kind of feedback keeps me going!

[@trance9158]

Excellent video...love these break down comparisons.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you, great to hear you find them useful.

[@thecartruthreport8451]

I did a track school thing at Mid-Ohio in my 2022 Camaro SS1LE, and on the second day had one of the instructors/racecar drivers take me for a few laps in my car to compare. They are SOOO much more aggressive with the curbs. I was pretty proud of myself for only braking about 50 ahead of where the pro was, though highly doubt that guy was even doing 9/10ths of what he could do and I was at about 100% of my current skill.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Yep you can learn a lot from watching these guys and having them in your car is an even better learning experience.

[@Matt77346]

Great video, thanks for sharing. Excellent information!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Glad it was helpful!

[@theviperman3]

Note how lightly Randy holds the steering wheel on turn-ins ... He's feeling the limits of grip .. amazing!!!

[@ItsTrackTime]

He’s the master and it’s very interesting to see his technique in action.

[@livewoutlimit]

It's incredible how relaxed his hands are, sometimes his outside hand doesn't leave the resting position lol

[@ItsTrackTime]

Yeah he's just running on muscle memory. Very low workload for him.

[@C-M-E]

I haven't been behind a real lap burner in such a long time that I don't have a lot of valid input on modern cars with the overhead of computer control, but one thing I can note that is universal is that drivers of a certain ilk use the tires and throttle as the first point of reference while the steering wheel is more secondary in how you turn the car. Balancing weight transfer with suspension limits and having the wonton drive to not give as much care about the mechanical longevity of the car itself is one thing high-level drivers do but rarely think about. It's all about max performance in that moment, that lap, and the guy on the headset does the worrying about making sure the car lasts for the duration of the event, but ultimately it's in the hands/decision tree of the driver to reign that in.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Yep, it would be nice to be in a position where you didn't care about the car and if you break it another one will magically appear.

[@jimc793]

Great video and side-by-side analytics. Personally, I'd drive the way you do (curbing, traction control on, etc.) because I love my car!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks! Yeah if you can get 9/10 of the performance and not break things I'm good with that!

[@l8tapex]

Raced RP many years ago. Never had time to visit. The seat time this man has is mind blowing.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Very cool, and you definitely missed a very good talk.

[@RW-zh7kl]

Thats a great breakdown, esp when thinking about journalists/social media people that run lap times. No offense to Randy he is getting older, Im sure he would probably admit theres good younger drivers that would even be a few seconds faster than he is

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you! He just turned a sub 10min run up Pikes Peak in June with basically no practice. The list of drivers that can do that is very short.

[@xguboekoberav1980]

Mr. Pobst is just a class act, always! And this comparison makes for a good ‘watch’, well done. I’m just kinda missing you mentioning that the Pro is not just ‘faster’ in speed, but actually drives a bit less ‘distance’ in the same lap, because of cutting the corners as short as he thinks possible. But good video man, really enjoyed watching it! 👌

[@ItsTrackTime]

Good point, you can see an example of that on turn 11. Thanks for watching!

[@WFORacer]

The data available for drivers today is amazing 😂

[@hectorbiarnes8838]

Awesome video. I've only done a couple of track days and am a total noob, but would love to do more of this. That said, on turn 15 where you note a significantly different line around the corner, in my super humble opinion, Randy appears to be taking this corner with more of an autocrosser's mindset. Sometimes when going slow around a sharp corner (Vmin was 40-42), the quickest way around a very slow corner is the shortest distance around it. It appears that is Randy's line, while you are still swinging out to make an arc, but by doing so, you're covering a greater distance at a negligibly higher speed. Hope this helps!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks! I believe you are correct. Randy comes from an Autocross background so it makes sense. I tried to mimic his line at my last track weekend and came up empty handed so more practice is needed...

[@Twobarpsi]

King Randy! My favorite test driver ever!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Mine too!

[@8enable]

Great analysis - especially as you're pointing out your own errors VS Randy I also noticed your time intervals. At turn 2 your neck & neck, by turn 3 your over 0.5 sec behind him an day turn 5 its over a second & growing and going over the bumps - is it because you wince about hitting them with your own car?

[@ItsTrackTime]

No, the bumps upset the car so much that I just figured they were destroying my lap times. My new plan is to improve the dampeners so that the car can glide over them without an issue. Even Randy said he wanted to go over them with his foot to the floor but he knew that wasn’t a good idea given how upset the car was.

[@jkkendall4515]

Great analysis, thanks for putting this up. Your inputs are smooth and speed isn’t that far off of Randy. Coming from a simple dirt guy, the greatest difference I see is a distance issue. Meaning Randy being “tighter in” on a lot of the corners might be a good chunk of that ~3% difference in lap time? Just comparing the distance driven visually in several corners on your lap are places where you used more track than you really needed to (though again very smooth) and Randy minimized distance.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for watching and providing feedback. I think you are correct. Randy sacrifices apex speed for a better, shorter, line. I need to rethink some of these turns...

[@mr.wonkfoo8820]

Great series, as someone who tracks a 4RS these are very educational. Interesting to see how Randy holds the wheel so light… the carousel for a good comparison. I hope to get down to COTA later this year or early next.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for watching and confirming this is useful content to other drivers. If you get down to COTA drop by my garage and say hi, I’m always interested in sharing notes.

[@ricardoosantos100]

What a great video this is for me. I have never been on track. Maybe someday. You're comparing yourself to Randy? Please take it easy on yourself. You're a hell of a driver, and I would be extremely proud of myself if I could do what you're doing. I've always been above average driver but no experience in tracks. I have a friend who was a pro, and I rurn a lap on Kart 40.723, and he turned 40.063. I felt so proud since I've never had instructions or track training. I would watch his rpm input, especially during transition from breaking to acceleration out of apax. I noticed you were faster on turn one and two, but he seems to get on throttle earlier and picks up speed quickly. Couldn't be the quicker transition from breaking to throttle plus management of slide. Keep up the great work, and you're on the right path. 👏

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks! You never learn anything by watching someone who is worse than you at a sport but learn a lot from watching someone better.

[@dkawjr]

incredible video, love this!!!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you so much!!

[@jesse_iwuji]

This is an awesome breakdown, I think what would help you out a bunch is being able to left foot brake. Watching you on the simulator use only 1 foot is slowing you down. Being able to manipulate the weight transfer of the vehicle by having 2 feet on two pedals and all times is crucial.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I agree this is slowing me down. Every car I have, with the exception of the 4RS, is a manual so left foot braking is not real practical but I know it would improve my weight transfer control on the PDK equipped cars. Might have to bite that one off...

[@dereksteneman9657]

Great breakdown! Thank you

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you and thanks for watching!

[@maintenancethrottle]

Awesome analysis! Would love to hear the specs on your simulator. I’m considering getting a sim. Thx.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you! My sim was built during the pandemic, when all of the tracks were closed, so it's probably a bit dated now but still does the job.

[@juhavehnia7862]

Excellent video Barry!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you and thanks for watching!

[@choyayahyah]

This was very interesting. I've been on track once for an instructional course. I'd love to get more into it

[@ItsTrackTime]

It’s very addictive. Once you get a taste for it it’s hard to walk away.

[@loonatticat]

I notice that Randy is much more relaxed with his grip of the wheel. You’re tightly gripped at 10 and 2 (ish) and Randy is one-handing it at times, sometimes using just his fingertips. And he does that knowing that he doesn’t have the TC safety net to catch him, so it’s great visual representation of the confidence he has in controlling the machine beneath him. That confidence must be worth at least 90% of your delta. Scrutinizing the choice of lines, braking points and Vmax is really just an attempt to quantify that unmeasurable quality behind the data. The simple explanation for the four second gap between you is this: Ten Thousand Hours.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Agreed, but there is much to learn from analyzing the differences that make him feel more confident.

[@essenumtem]

Excellent video, thanks !

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@mpp9964]

Looks like you held your own. Maybe take the curbs more where the corners are more like kinks. Interesting to see how Randy is barely holding onto the wheel at most times. Great video. Randy is a treasure to the racing scene.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I don’t like trying to control the car at 110mph after it has been upset from jumping a curb. Randy on the other hand has no issue with this. He doesn’t like the way the car reacts but he deals with it. Another clear difference between a Pro and an amateur.

[@antbymcnair4297]

Great data. Super lucky to have had MF-ing Randy Pobst (his words, not mine, lol) drive your car. We had an interaction once where I was introduced and was star struck. He played it up in a very cordial and funny way and called himself that. Totally broke the ice and I was able to have a few minutes to talk. Super awesome person and incredible driver. Awesome GT4 too, BTW.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you! Agreed, having Randy drive my car and getting to ask him questions about it was an amazing experience. He’s so approachable, just like anyone else on the garage, really a great person.

[@Tj930]

Interesting video and analysis. Fan of Mr Pobst Saw you braking with your right foot on the simulator. Your Cayman is a manual GT4?

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks. I brake with my right foot because all of my track cars are manuals except the 4RS. I could definitely do better with weight transfer by left foot braking.

[@NO_OPEC_NO_PROBLEM]

WOW great video. Of course Randy is going to smoke all of us, but great comparison.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you, yes he will, thanks for watching!

[@fmtien]

Great comparison. Very entertaining. So basically, you have room for improvement at every turn on the track. 😉🤣

[@ItsTrackTime]

Correct!

[@jdslfc]

Usually the main difference is amateurs are trying to nail braking points and lines. Pros are not as worried about that, it comes second to finding the limit and balancing the weight to exploit the tires as best as possible. It is very easy to tell you are not exploiting the tires, maybe at a couple of peaks during a turn, but not throughout. Don't be afraid of moving the steering and trying to turn the car, if you have the grip, use it, you would have made the corner shorter and realized that by next lap you can go in a bit faster.

[@SS454LS6]

What's scary is there are drivers that could be 1 or 2 seconds faster than Pobst. In any case, great job and very fun analysis. As expected the braking zones is a typical spot that pros are better.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Oh I'm sure there are but not around me. Running into Randy was a real treat. Thanks for watching!

[@jimm2216]

Great analysis!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for watching!

[@ArosaMike]

The shallow line thing is a 'racing line' vs racing line difference. By that I mean that there's the line people are taught which is the 'racing line' and then there's the racing line that is the result of actually exploiting the available grip. It's worth understanding that techniques like 'slow in fast out' and 'squaring off the corner and straightening the car on exit' are all derived from track driving techniques that were developed on older tyres decades ago. That doesn't just mean cross-ply tyres but also means older radials that had less combined capacity. Those techniques are also great for 'safe' driving i.e. they minimise the risk for an inexperienced driver as it means you're only ever asking the tyre to do one thing....accelerate/brake or turn the car. The reality now, with a modern radial is that tyres work very well with combined loads. The actual drop off in long/lat grip is less of a trade now due to the tyres being a multi compound/multi construction design. You can in fact maintain a much higher percentage of your longitudinal (braking or accelerating) force at the same time as demanding maximum lateral grip. For this reason the fastest line on a modern tyre is almost always the shortest one. If you watch a lot of onboard laps in GT3 or GT4 cars, you'll see exactly this in hairpins where the 'traditional' line would be to go deep and stay to the outside before turning the car and straightening the exit as much as possible. In it's most extreme case (in an historic car on cross ply tyres) you can understand why this works. The traction loss when turning and accelerating is so huge that you'll spend all your time oversteering out of the corner if you try to accelerate whilst turning. On a modern radial track tyre though the car will take full throttle but still continue to turn effectively with very little loss in maximum lateral grip. The penalty of driving a longer distance to straighten the exit simply can't be recovered as a result. Further more, with a rear biased weight balance (which a Cayman still is comparatively), you want as much weight on the front when turning as possible. Turning when off or on throttle will result in much more push: I think this is what the issue through Turn 11 is.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I have noticed that the late apex line we're taught as students is used less and less by the more advanced drivers. The pro drivers I've studied seem to, as you say, drive a line closer the perfect parabolic line which is not as safe but is more optimal.

[@joesix4726]

Kudos for posting.

[@problemchild1976]

Great analysis - have you captured distance travelled too?

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you! The plots shown on the video have distance along the X-axis.

[@chrislamprecht]

One thing I see at T11 (at 12:05) is his max steering angle is much higher. Visually I'd estimate 190 degrees vs. 150 degrees for you. With his lower Vmin (35 mph vs your 40 mph) this makes sense - he's turning slower and sharper. Maybe this allows him to get on the gas faster. And even if you had your foot all the way down, the Traction Control may slow down your acceleration in 2nd gear. Does your data logging include the throttle position and brake pressure? These would also be valuable to look at. Good work - another good analysis video!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Yes, his steering angle on turn 11 is much sharper than mine and he manages to keep the frontend hooked up. As you said, this plus his lower speed might have been the difference in him rotating the car faster. Once he's pointed down track he can roll the power back on quicker that me. My primary data logger, Garmin, doesn't have throttle position and brake pressure but I usually have a 2nd one in the car that does, Solo2. Contemplating the addition of a VBox but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

[@Stormie4cefed]

My observation. Shorter corners, less steering angle, carrying more apex and exit speed and rotates the car quicker. Will need to look at throttle and brake traces with steering angle to manage weight transfer while not upsetting the chassis. As you said, pro drivers can feel that without thinking from experience. Thanks for the video.. Very interesting. BTW, as you know a hotter track tends to have less grip progressively through the hot lap but pro drivers can manage that by feel.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for watching and for your thoughts. So it sounds like you are telling me to get a VBox before Randy gets back in the car?

[@Doing_The_Thing]

@@ItsTrackTimeyes VBox/AIM Solo. You want to be able to look at a time vs distance chart. This combined with video analysis focused mainly on the lines taken as well as the driver telemetry (throttle, brake, steering) if you can overlay them. Vmax and Vmin are useful checkpoints but only tell a partial story for differences between drivers, especially when your lines are totally different. Check out the Data Analysis 101 video by HP Academy for a crash course.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I had a Solo2 mounted in the car when both myself and Randy were driving and it was hooked into the CAN bus so I should have the data but I just hate using their software. Every time I open one of their apps I have to relearn everything plus it only works on Windows - a major strike against them.

[@Stormie4cefed]

@@ItsTrackTime Agreed, what you can do also is try to fit a footwell camera which can at least have you see foot work in the future.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Another good thought!

[@chrismarshall4728]

Always wondered about cutting the corner, over the rumble strip vs staying on flat Trac. Thank you.

[@ItsTrackTime]

This is a good example of how they differ but you need a car that can stay composed while doing so.

[@nzk300]

few comments: 1. thanks for doing this awesome comparison 2. the tighter line through 11 is the reason he gains time there 3. your simulator FOV is set too far back - that’s why you can’t see the apexes at COTA - it’s not realistic

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for watching! Turn 11 - I need to mimic his line and see how it works for me. Sim FOV - My three screen setup was done by measuring all of the dimensions and inputing them to iRacing. How can you tell the FOV is off?

[@clintcowan9424]

You def spent a lot of time in your car. Good work

[@ItsTrackTime]

F1 track in my backyard so I have to, or at least until I go broke!

[@onefastviking]

Turn 11 Randy makes the corner happen quicker, less feet traveled, turn is done sooner which then allows him to be on gas sooner which allows him to carry that all the way down the looong straight following the 11 corner.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Agreed, so getting the car pointed down the straight sooner out weighs his lack of apex speed.

[@bran192]

My thoughts on turn 11 is that you were carrying a bit extra speed on entry and mid-corner and by the time you are back on throttle, you are not done with the needed rotation thus you got forced to keep an aggressive steering angle, inducing understeer, and hurting the initial part of acceleration compared to having the front tires less stressed, I'd say try a tiny later apex approach sacrificing a bit entry speed to have the car a bit more ready to go straight, shifting the focus on exit speed just a tiny percent, other than that you are doing great even compared to a pro, great work there, you only need slight adjustments

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for your analysis, and for the vote of confidence. What you are saying seems to be correct. In need to study this and see if I can repeat what he is doing on Track.

[@josephcote7702]

I just noticed something. you don't take the same line at at 3:04. When Randy cuts in early on T7, that also rotates the car and allows him to cut further left and setup a lot more for the T8/T9 complex. You run a wider line avoiding the kerbs, and then you straight line right down to the apex of T8 and that then puts you out wide and also compromises your exit for T9. That's also why Randy's VMin through there was 7mph higher. That also gave him a better angle for the exit and that exit speed difference is felt again at T10. The difference in lines at T15 is something to work on, too. it's the Hamilton line at Bahrain T9/10. Be a little wider off the first apex and brake early so you can angle down to the final apex sooner and accelerate out. When you're travelling slower, it takes more time to cover each foot, so minimize time spent and distance covered when at slower speeds. As for the T11 line, though, that's just typical hairpin approach stuff. Taking a shallow turn in and cutting a lot of distance using the momentum to rotate the car at apex, and then throttling out when the time is right. When done right, it's really effective.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis! I need to rework some of my lines based on your comments.

[@s31ACE1252]

For turn 11, looking at your accel graph for T11 shows he wiped the floor with you on the acceleration rate....that's how he ended up 2mph faster at the same point(when you pause it) despite being 4mph down at the apex. What is your TCS/SC doing off that turn? Is it intervening in any way? Were you slow on the throttle off the apex? Randy's straighter line does mean a shorter distance vs your arc after the apex, so that's a thing to think about as you are going a longer distance.

[@ItsTrackTime]

The acceleration plots coming out of the Garmin Catalyst are whacked. Look at the speed plot. If the acceleration shown on the middle plot were correct you would see a corresponding immediate speed difference on the top plot but you don't. Looking at the video you can see the true speed on the dash and it does match the upper plot so Garmin's GPS based stuff does work but their accelerometers don't seem to always calibrate correctly.

[@s31ACE1252]

@@ItsTrackTime Since the plots can't exactly be trusted, are you sure he got you by one second on T11? Coming down the back straight, I compared the time frame by frame, where the grass on the right turns to pavement, all the way past the apex to 5.5 rumble strip paint blocks before the pavement change after T11. He was 4.78 in/3.98 out. You were 5.17 in/4.01 out. Based on that, I think he got you on the entry, but by only 0.4 tenths.

[@DarinGC]

Would also be good to test the car to its limit finding something that can replicate the curbs, get aggressive with the steers and even spin it out a bunch of times so you know what to do, then you're less hesitant taking the aggressive curbs.

[@ChadGeidel]

Just a quick note. Randy isn't counter-steering in turn 11. Counter-steering is turning into the slide, so if he were counter-steering he would be turning right on a left-hand turn. I'm not a professional racing driver so I don't know if this is a lot of understeer or if he is intentionally turning the wheel that much.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I agree at the apex he's not counter steering but as he completes the turn he had to counter steer. In his other laps there are examples of much larger counter steers as he turns through 11. He was complaining about the time lost from this and wanted the rear sway bar moved to full soft to counter it.

[@ChadGeidel]

@@ItsTrackTimethanks. 😁

[@lttlemsart]

Jealous on so many levels!!!! Great stuff!!!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you for watching!

[@borutgr]

Nice video thx for sharing

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks for watching!

[@mickmac9825]

Interesting, if you look at the pro’s steering angle through the low speed, he cranks in a lot more angle at the apex asking much more of the front tyres.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Yep, Randy constantly got the car point down track ahead of me. Big advance that I need to learn from.

[@tammaramma]

This is great stuff.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you!

[@zks2341]

Traction control makes a huge (negative) difference. The car will be pulling power out of the corners to maintain traction. All driver aids need to be off on track for advanced drivers. That alone could make up 2-3 seconds on a track with so many corners. Then avoiding curbs would make a difference too - longer paths, less “straight line”, will lead to slower exit speed. Brakes need to on/off too - other than trail braking, feathering the brakes is almost always slower - you wanna brake as late as possible, at the edge of losing traction. Yeah, smoothness is important, but I always feel like you also need to take the car by the scruff of the neck and feel your way around. Simulators are great, but I feel like most simulators can’t teach you feel.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Great set of clear points that I need to incorporate in my laps - Thank you. I agree on your simulator comment as well. They do help to learn the line on new tracks but don't give you the "seat of the pants" feel that you need to drive on track.

[@sydways2981]

Very nice comparison! You asked at 12:06 what was difference between both in this turn... Randy takes late apex which lines him up with straight on track out. Your slightly earlier apex took your line out to the curbing. Great drive in an awesome car!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks! Yeah, Randy's very good at rotating the car. Looks like magic when you watch it. Always gets the nose pointed down the track faster than me.

[@Flyingtuga2]

If you look carefully you are extending your arm on turns,that makes you loose feel of the car!just sit a litlle closer to the steering wheel

[@ItsTrackTime]

Interesting, I've been moving my seat up lately but will consider that next time I'm at the track.

[@Flyingtuga2]

@@ItsTrackTime just try at at home like this… Sit in your car relax shoulders and body and place your wrist on top of steerin wheel whitout movinv your back!that is your optimal siting position!that allows turning without moving your body around and you relax more

[@ItsTrackTime]

What I was told is to sit in the car, put your arms above the wheel, cross them at your wrists, and align the seat position so that the cross point is at the top of the wheel. I typically move the seat slightly shorter than this.

[@RLCPLUMBINGLLC]

You were racing on my Birthday

[@Bikini_ST]

5:43 i dont think he missed the apex. He rotated the car in less distance to get on power sooner. That's why his exit speed is higher. This is a line is perfect for mid engine cars. Also, surprisingly, fwd cars, too.

[@ItsTrackTime]

He did get the car rotated quicker so in the end he was on throttle sooner - Likely his only goal.

[@finngerbangh1836]

What I find so interesting is how Randy positions his left hand. Barely gripping the steering wheel - such a light touch.

[@ItsTrackTime]

The best of them all have a very light touch. Look at Senna videos.

[@brainofjjj]

Nice video. Would be good to run a real data system and gather more data points. I put a pro on my Spec e46 once and gathered data on my Aim system, was great to see their brake pressure and how quickly they got on the gas. Basically it showed i had slow feet.

[@ItsTrackTime]

I had an AIM Solo2 in the car as well that was wired into the CAN bus but haven’t pulled it yet. As you said that’s another level of detail beyond what’s posted here. If that data is good maybe a level two video can be screwed together.

[@SpyderRacing]

Catalyst data is almost useless, I'd definitely pull up the aim2 data, it will be much more useful. You can take a look at the time delta and it will give you a much better idea of where you are losing time than the graph you made.

[@mikeni1225]

Great video, video comparison is great for emulation. First you copy, then you evaluate on why it’s better. You could spend hundreds of hours driving without learning a thing, but making videos and comparing, you can learn much quicker

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you! You can learn a lot by watching the best at any sport and yes when you sit down and analyze the differences you learn even more.

[@chronodriver]

the single best thing you can do is develop car control skills soon a skidpad so you can get rid of the stability control and traction control. If you look back at your data, having the same min speed is not equalizing you both, he carries more speed in and out (with the same min speed) and therefore grabs big chunks of time at every corner. He balances the car better therefore it produces more g for longer in the corners (his average g is higher) so he is carrying a higher average speed and lower time through each corner. this comes from feel which comes from car control. Park the simulator (the answer is not line) and learn to drive at the limit on a skidpad then turn off your assists and feel the balance and grip you are missing, then you can fiddle with line. You are missing you roll as car balancer not just car placer...there is a more pressing skill to develop and don't get distracted by line, it alone will never get you there. Keep having fun, you have a good mindset, your just focusing on the wrong things (everything you mention will take car of itself once you develop the feel for the car through mastering car control, you'll be safer too not relying on the nannies!) Good Luck

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks taking the time to analyze this data and write up your thoughts. He does get the nose pointed down the track faster than me on all of the tight corners. Some of that could be the fact that he has the Nannie’s turned off so he can push the car in ways that the computer won’t let me. I’ll start playing with some of these ideas on my next track day.

[@leadsled8961]

The curb forces the car to rotate along the drive axis pushing the outside tires into the ground giving more grip.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Nearly everything feels worse, control wise, when jumping the curbs but there is a clear advantage to cutting the corner.

[@aab350z]

Two completely different mindsets. One is a veteran race car driver that just wants the best lap time period and will do whatever is required of them to make that happen. The other is probably the vehicle owner who doesn't want the car beat up too much on curbs or risk upsetting the suspension, and they leave TC/ESC drivers aids on because they don't want to risk their expensive, GT4RS from getting destroyed. "Playing it safe" in every way they can. Gee, I wonder how this is gonna go?? Two competent drivers with two completely different mindsets. It's amazing to me how many variables change just in that alone, regardless of driving conditions, tires, or even skill/experience.

[@ItsTrackTime]

True, however Randy doesn't want to wreck the car either and said he was being "safe" in a number of areas around the track. In the debrief he specifically mentioned several areas that he wanted to go harder on but chose not to risk it given the behavior of the car. I believe once the dampeners and sway bars are addressed he will push harder in several of those areas.

[@timburton1080]

It's a common misconception that the pros just have a wanton disregard, when reality is they have more answers for when the car becomes unsettled, knowing they can gather a slide etc. Reality is they're both running a similar risk profile, but the greater skill and experience gives more headroom. Running the kerbs massively changes the profile of the corner (captain obvious I know) if you can unlock them with the feel / skill / confidence. I'm betting Randy actually left more on the table than an Am would. My 2c from racing etc

[@HITAPEX00]

First, I love these videos and your analytical approach. The unknown variable is what driver aids are doing in your lap versus apples to apples completely off like Randy. It may be the case that your inputs are more similar than it appears - I tend to think driver aids hurt more than help, at least at your non-beginner level.. A variable to consider for future comparisons.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Good to hear you find this format interesting - Thanks! My older 987 generation Caymans had a lot more invasive driver aids. They would pull power as you exited the turns so it really taught you to roll on the power as you straightened the wheel. However it's very hard to detect where the new 2023 systems a coming in. They are a very impressive. Shutting it off would tell me real quick.

[@dielaughing73]

​@@ItsTrackTimeyep.. they might hinder the speed of an expert driver but for an amateur driving a very expensive car they're probably... advisable...

[@ItsTrackTime]

That's been my thought process in a nutshell. If someone else is paying for the car I'm willing to shut them off.

[@dielaughing73]

@@ItsTrackTime I don't hesitate to switch everything off on my Miata but it simply doesn't have the power to cause real issues. Plus the nannies are old-style and very intrusive

[@ItsTrackTime]

Given its weight and balance, I'm sure the Miata is still a very well behaved car with all of the driving aids disabled. However something like a rear engined GT3 would be a handful - I don't even fill comfortable in those with the driving aids enabled.

[@robg112]

Interesting how Randy's hand positions change quite a bit.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Yep, his hand placement is very unique in todays world. I believe it came from racing manuals.

[@TimurIskhodzhanov]

You should not look at Vmin, it can be a very misleading metric, especially in slower corners like T11. He did the "not-too-slow in, fast out" approach, whereas it looks like you tried to carry too much speed into the corner, which didn't allow you to open the throttle as early as he did. Unfortunately, Garmin Catalyst doesn't log pedals for us to easily see that difference in technique in the data. As a proxy for the throttle pedal data, try comparing the engine sound in T11 between your two laps.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Many times I go too hot into the corners and in the end it hurts me. My goal was always fast in / fast out, but in this case it’s actually fast in / slow out. I need to rethink this…

[@donatoforte2833]

Really good job against Randy! I'm sure someone has mentioned this, slow in fast out.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you. That lesson is sinking in slowly. I'm started with low hp momentum cars so I always tried to go in fast and keep the speed through the corner. Now, with more power, I can afford to slow down more, make the perfect exit, and use the power to accelerate sooner. Different way of thinking.

[@roch145]

There’s no mention of gear selection. It would be interesting to know how lap times with a stick would compare. It’s a lot easier to drive and shift with a PDK

[@ItsTrackTime]

Agreed a PDK lightens the load a lot. Unfortunately Porsche didn't offer the 4RS with a stick.

[@annenominous7220]

great video.

[@ItsTrackTime]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@lylecxi7298]

All mostly with one hand too ;)

[@ItsTrackTime]

Yeah he literally beat me with one hand tied behind his back!

[@echowhiskey17]

Very cool!

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thank you!

[@TheIznog]

Turn 11 is the most important corner on that track. He capitalizes on late apex to maximize straight-line speed

[@ItsTrackTime]

Agreed, but his max speed on the back straight was identical to mine across the entire distance. He just cleared turn 11 faster than me.

[@jb6969ish]

Awesome! Takes a lot of time to put this together. Great stuff. We will be at COTA end of sept, would be fun to chat. 🏁🏁

[@ItsTrackTime]

Thanks, and yes these do take a lot of time to produce. Glad you find value in them. I'll be there in late Sept praying for a cold front. Look forward to chatting with you!

[@850t5m]

The curbs at cota are not really going to upset your car. You can drive all over most of them. Try it out at like 7/10's and you'll see.

[@ItsTrackTime]

A 4RS with the shocks set to full stiff, needed for the esses, definitely gets very upset by the curbs at turns 3, 7, and 9. Whereas folks with MCS dampeners go over them like nothing.

[@850t5m]

@@ItsTrackTime There is your issue. The shocks should not be set to full stiff. They don't need to be!

[@ItsTrackTime]

That suggestion did come up but by moving them to “not stiff” the esses then get hurt. I’m just going to move a more sophisticated dampener.

[@850t5m]

@@ItsTrackTime I'm not a fan of PASM once you start reaching the limit. I tend to agree, you should get a more tailored damping curve. I like Penske dampers quite a bit. I recommend eibach, swift, or hyperco springs they all measure what is advertised that their rates are. I'm local to Austin and if you ever want to meet up or if you want some recommendations for setup I'd be happy to help.