GTI CLUBSPORT S vs GTI TCR - WHAT THE MK8 FACELIFT MUST BEAT!

[@tyroneaprill3763]

Note that when he had the g8 Clubsport it was then the best gti but after he sold it it’s now not ….

[@volkswizard]

Note than when I got my Mk8 CS, I was confident VW would sort out all the bugs with software updates within a reasonable time because it shouldn't have been released to customers with them in the first place. Then it became clear they weren't going to do this so of course my satisfaction with the car changed as this video makes clear kzbin.info/www/bejne/e57TeZ6srcxqhs0 I still stand by my opinion the Mk8 CS is the best driving standard series production GTI road car of all time but now I know new Mk8s are still riddled with faults, I don't believe all the bugs and glitches made up for by the superior dynamics. I still miss the way it worked on track better than the TCR and is was more refined and economical on my commute but everytime I think of buying another, I envisage a world of frustration with no solution offered by VW. If I'd known that this was the case before buying it, I wouldn't have bought it. The media concentrated on their dislike of the user interface which I was OK with having driven a few Mk8s before buying mine, if they'd reported the bugs just as enthusiastically I wouldn't have had to find out the hard way. I still to this day can't believe the cruise control will stop you overtaking a vehicle when you are in the outside lane by slowing you down to their speed because it thinks you are in Germany and about to undertake a car, what a joke! And that's just the start of the bug log. So yes I've altered my opinion but this is because of the benefit of experience and the broader perspective now available to me 4 years since the Mk8 launch.

[@timothyhewitt6736]

​@@volkswizardthey aren't riddled with faults, but then there's no mention of the leap forward in tech that they offer.

[@gerardcahill3924]

Rebuttal well demonstrated Andrew.

[@volkswizard]

@@timothyhewitt6736 What exactly is the leap forward in tech? Linking the adaptive cruise control to traffic sign recognition which went it's working as well as it can be, will still slow you down to 30mph when you are on the wrong side of the road overtaking a tractor with a sticker on the back that's 30 in black text in a white circle (that is from a VW technical bulletin advising dealerships to advise owners this is just what it's like)? And when it's having a bad day will read a 50 mph LED road sign as 80 mph and accelerate you to that in an average speed zone. And then we have the confusion between kph and mph which has affected many VW models and is very dangerous. They couldn't even get wireless phone charging to work properly and have included a fan in charging dock for 8.5. The engines are more economical due to tech and I did mention that but what else is there really? The IQ lights are good... It''s pretty well documented they are riddled with faults, just do a search, don't believe me. it finished 34th out of 37 family cars for reliability according to What Car? 48% of Mk8s that were part of their survey reported a glitch? If only everything was reliable as a Volkswagen? God forbid. www.whatcar.com/volkswagen/golf/hatchback/used-review/n23128/reliability

[@volkswizard]

Not hard really is it?@@gerardcahill3924

[@jamie7tcr777]

Put my TCR up for sale in Jan as seemed like the sensible thing to do given the huge rise in my mortgage inbound. Had some insane offers but even after 4 years of owning it I just couldn't let it go it's just simply too good to give up and hopefully a future classic!

[@volkswizard]

What could you replace it with Jamie? The Mk8 isn't really the same package however well it drives, then you have all the stuff that journos put in front of TCR on road tests like Focus ST, Civic Type R, Hyundai I30. All a bit sharper to drive but not the well rounded premium package of TCR and as second hand (read used and abused) cars, even less appealing than when new with 3 year warranties.

[@jamie7tcr777]

@@volkswizard that's the problem I don't think I can replace it without down or upgrading! In terms of money invested now and or in the future it's impossible to swap or get rid of right now! Id certainly consider swapping it for a clubsport though 😉

[@smiddysmidton8313]

Obvious answer is the "normal" CS40 edition 40 is quite easily the ultimate GTI. It is practical than the stripped out CSS but more special feeling than the TCR with its bespoke bodykit and alcantara interior. It also has an analogue dashboard with proper round mechanical gauges which will date much better.

[@volkswizard]

Very spec dependent though but yes in terms of collectability it's superior to TCR - can you believe they couldn't sell them in Germany and they were on the Avis rental fleet? I booked one and they tried to fob me off with a GTI PP - it was supposed to be a guaranteed model. To top it off there was one in the car park at Munich airport covered in bugs in white WITH BUCKET SEATS which they wouldn't let me have.

[@britishbiker]

That van is really having a go at keeping up with the Clubsport! “It’s not what you’re driving, it’s how committed you are!”

[@volkswizard]

Could be worse, he could have been in front when I suspect he would have been a lot slower

[@mufasa6511]

Hi Andrew I live in South Africa and have owned a few GTIs I've noticed while in manual mode if you dont floor the accelerator past the click button under the accelerator pedal, it wont change down, only when its floored beyond the end of its travel and then further clicking it, only then will it shift down in case of an emergency to pick up speed quickly Great channel you have, I've been subscribed for a while and never miss any of your very informative and enjoyable videos, Thank you for them

[@volkswizard]

Thanks so much mufasa, really appreicate it. I can't for the life of me recall if the kickdown works like that on the TCR or not but clearly VW think it can be made better as they did that for Mk8 R with Performance Pack making it fully manual. On my Audi R8 S tronic, it's fully manual with zero kickdown even though that V8 needs revs to accelerate, so you can find yourself foot the floor in a high gear and it barely accelerates, but it still doesn't shift down! There are times when you want to maintain the high gear but still be able to literally floor the throttle for example if you are driving on track and want to give the car a slightly easier time than running in the highest gear all the time. They are out of warranty now so it's easily fixed with a TCU flash :)

[@DevonBarrett]

One Saffa to another: Howzit! Mufasa, best GTI you have owned and why?

[@mufasa6511]

@DevonBarrett Howzit bra! Best GTI I've ever owned is the current one im driving at the moment Golf 8 GTI, second favorite was not a golf but a polo gti 6c 1.8 Ltr DSG.... very fun and simple car My 3rd favorite was the golf GTI 7.5 Only problem the golf 8 GTI at the moment was the drop in quality materials used lately by VW, other than that it has the best driving dynamics out of all the GTIs

[@DevonBarrett]

Lekker! And what about insurance on your Mk8: high or acceptable? I'm glad we not pushing for electric vehicles just yet... still saving up for a GTI, probably the only benefit to loadshedding 😂

[@mufasa6511]

@DevonBarrett ya our lovely country😂😂 Insurance is acceptable it depends on your record of claims, age and obviously depending on how many different assets you have insured under one roof, i dont recommend buying a second hand one unless it still has some warranty remaining and an extended maintenance plan will definitely help! Best of luck on getting one they are very enjoyable cars and they are all fun regardless of what make or model

[@edenfox8334]

I never comment on videos however on this occasion I felt the need to, I watched this on my tv (not logged in) so came across to my phone to drop a like and comment. Great informative video, that TCR makes my 7.5 PP look very vanilla 😂

[@mylo3126]

TCR coming up on 4yrs old, time to change? What to? Long hard look to my gray Golf sitting in the drive and heart says nope! Hang on my head says nope as well, show me something that does all this does and still would make me smile after 4yrs and 18k miles . A keeper , you bet . Thanks for the test great content and honest reviews.

[@volkswizard]

Thanks Mylo! Maybe some subtle modifications like an R600 and inlet pipe, or Clubsport S front hubs to keep things interesting. I recommend taking it on track too, you will love it even more!.

[@ryangibson3552]

Loved the video, Andrew! Both great cars 👌🏻

[@volkswizard]

Thanks ryan! 👍

[@huwd2292]

Loved this, lots of detail and great to see how they differ. Andrew you know I love my TCR. I was looking for a GTi with PP when I got it in 2020 as VW were doing 0% deals to get rid of the last 7.5s!! And a dealer managed to track down one of the final TCRs for about £20 per month extra. I didn’t spec it, just took what I could get. So no DCC (not sure I miss that), standard wheels which I really like, black roof and to get rid of them the last batch came fitted with the Akrapovic exhaust as standard. All the later ones were, I believe, 5 doors which for me is what a GTi should be 😊. Biggest gripe is the mode switch being hidden by the gear lever which I guess is the fault of RHD. Mine doesn’t flip gears in manual like the one you tried did. Wonder if that’s something to do with DCC? My 0% deal ends in April and I’ll just pay the balance off and keep it. 18k miles in and two cross-Europe trips, the exhaust now sounds a lot fruitier and, if you are going to waste money on cars, this has to be the best waste of money I’ve ever made. It’s fabulous.

[@mikenelson2655]

Two door best

[@stevecotterill7981]

My under bonnet insuation has also shrunk / distorted like yours. My 7.5 R gets very hot above the turbo, which I think is the main culprit. Great content as always. 👍

[@mda5003]

It seems they've always had a problem with the under bonnet insulation. My plain basic 2008 Jetta had its replaced under warranty many years ago - the back edge was almost flopping down onto the engine.

[@volkswizard]

That's not good when turbo gets so hot!

[@mda5003]

@@volkswizard Yes, no wonder they'd didn't quibble about replacing it!

[@TheNorville2]

Funny today was just reminiscing looking at pictures of all my old golfs, Gti's mk 1 and 2, 8v and 16v and the G60 that I wish I kept... got a GTE at the moment and that makes me smile.

[@chrismlarge1]

TCR is my favourite 7/7.5 era Golf.

[@macbook9084]

Excellent extensive review Well done sir!

[@volkswizard]

Glad you liked it and thanks!

[@briankeenan6553]

Andrew really enjoyed this one, 2 gti beasts with their own take on it . Keep up the great content 🙏🙏🤘

[@markrennie6659]

Great video as always thanks Andrew! I miss my TCR. Only one I have seen with leather. I may yet buy another…

[@volkswizard]

You've just reminded me Mark about saying leather was an option on TCR but I'd never seen one. I think you got red edge seat belts then too which is always nice :)

[@markrennie6659]

@@volkswizard No on the seatbelts unfortunately, although the red detailing on the seats was rather nice! 👌🏼

[@projectr2451]

Amazing video! Love the pops on the startup of the Clubsport S, as well as the burble of the GTI TCR. Golf R a little more tame in comparison to the two. GTI Clubsport S the ultimate performance Golf overall, but would be interesting to see how it fares against the Mk8 Golf R in gear. There was a video I saw where the Clubsport S went against the TCR and a Stage 1 Mk7 Clubsport, and it didn’t do badly at all!

[@Pete7.5R]

. . . aaaaaaaaannnd breath! Excellent content Andrew, 7/7.5 is where it’s at. .. more please 👍😎 . . the TCR does sound like a police helicopter!! 😂😂😂

[@volkswizard]

Thanks Pete :)

[@MrRonan3]

Great video. I have owned plenty of fast Golf's.. but own a 2020 GTI TCR in Australia they come already fully loaded. it has only done 12k from new. i love driving it but the acceleration does not thrill me at all.i was thinking of buying a Golf R20 but over 45.000 pounds. i will stick to my TCR,

[@NiceGuyAidey]

Damn the TCR is still a cracking car and i wish i had bought one, Andrew my local dealer offered me a MK8 Clubby a few weeks ago, 39k for it, i did think it over before coming to my senses lol

[@Rotciv1929]

Please can you do a review on a standard mk6 GTI. You don’t have any videos on it!

[@maryellenbarr4206]

Had a brand new TCR 2019 used it for a year sold it back to my local vw dealer lost only £1200 iin that time broke my heart parting with it was signs of the times related at the time loved the car ended up with Audi s1 competition had that the year went back to the mk7 clubsport 40 still have it today lovely car doesn’t handle like the TCR tcr defo better in my eyes but far more of them around hopefully in a few years get a big bag of money for thr 40 lol👍🏻

[@escos0410]

Had our gti mk8 CS 3 years on the 29th of this month It’s took 3 years to finally get the new steering wheel which was the problem with all the gremlins Finally got the car we should have had 3 years ago Its a completely different car now Just a shame arguing with VW to sort it when they knew what was the issue was from day one

[@gerardcahill3924]

Your 100 percent on point here Andrew. This is just what we need to learn.

[@volkswizard]

Thanks so much Gerard. It's a big ask from the 8.5 and I doubt it can have such a spread of abilities sadly

[@gerardcahill3924]

​But the foolish 11:54 romantics amongst us will hope! @@volkswizard

[@_marcus_does_]

The mk8 isn't buggy anymore. I'm at 45,000 miles in my clubsport and it's a cracking motor

[@volkswizard]

I’m glad yours is ok but one swallow doesn’t make a summer. I get emails all the time from people with issues inc 2023 cars. Buying a VW shouldn’t be such a lottery should it?

[@volkswizard]

Mechanically I had no issues and performance and economy ratio was mind blowing but every time I consider another, just can’t do it

[@_marcus_does_]

@@volkswizard no it shouldn't. This will be my last vw.

[@andrewbarnard6935]

I have known an anomaly TCR, Factory DCC but no performance pack and standard alloys, great review

[@volkswizard]

Thanks Andrew! That's not too surprising Andrew, you could simply spec DCC and stick with the 18s, handy for dodging the luxury car tax - I know Lee Evans when he was at Cheltenham specced a 5dr that way and with a sunroof.

[@kevinclarke9933]

Another great video. My life’s ambition would be to create a home for every Golf GTI I’ve owned. However, I’m not sure I’d still be married.

[@philipguacci6452]

The TCR was a A$60,000 purchase when new. I think Mk8 GTI are $54,990. Since Australia won't have 8.5 until next year. Our builds start in October to December. A main dealer quoted me $75,000 for a Mk8 GTI last year, didn't even have one in stock. Golf R $85,000 no discounts none in stock only a black demo car. NOT for sale, I didn't ask for a drive. Never driven an R or any GTI other than my ancient Mk5 from 2008. Cheers.

[@davidrichards3]

Loved the video Andrew 👍

[@volkswizard]

Thanks David, very much appreciated 👍🏻

[@timnewbury1792]

Thank you Andrew Brilliant Brilliant as always Thank you so much the best content Oh by the way lovely sunglasses What are they make model Tim😊

[@volkswizard]

Thanks Tim, very kind. Good spot with the glasses, I've had them a while but tend to forget I own them but my normal ones are starting to suffer from the usual Rayban problem where the polarized film starts to bubble so fancied a change. These are RB 4309-M www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165830269838 They are Ferrari branded but it's thankfully very subtle. Bought them when they had just become old stock a good few years ago now.

[@shazyk2666]

I have a clubsport 40 .. was thinking of getting something different .. would consider the TCR are better vehicle .. even though i must admit i prefer a manual -:)

[@paulmichael3844]

👏🏾 nice vid club sport S for me

[@philipbarkle3837]

What a great video Andrew.👍

[@volkswizard]

Glad you enjoyed it Philip and thank you

[@jimmyjt16]

I prefer the TCR. I know the club sport is more capable, but the 7.5 for me is the peak Golf. The 7 just looks too dated nowadays and I own one.

[@philipguacci6452]

I still have my late 2008 Mk5 with just under 97,000kms. Yes it's had lots of costly dealer fixes. I still like it. Can't afford a new one and the 8.5 won't be delivered until 2025 down under. Not placing an order.

[@volkswizard]

It's a tricky choice between CS Ed 40 and TCR (I did make a video back in 2019). Not sure what I said but now the CS Ed40 does seem a bit more special what with the aero kit but TCR is actually faster and IIRC better on fuel and 7 speed DSG is so much nicer than the old 6. Plus TCR is a fair bit newer but not actually much more expensive.

[@paulmayhew8085]

Fantastic video again, please keep your content coming

[@volkswizard]

Thanks, will do my best.

[@gerardcahill3924]

Catchpole also favored TCR over 8 Clubsport so there you have it.

[@jonathonbrett-qn1ic]

Brilliant video Andrew as always Two stunning GTIs I would love to own in my garage collection when I win the lottery:) The club sport is the one I would have but the TCR WOW I’ll just have to have both VDub:)

[@volkswizard]

Thanks as ever JB - yep agreed, I'd have both too and chuck in a Clubsport Edition 40 as well!

[@richweston6202]

I dont think ill ever get used to the GTI badges on the door - MK8. Looks like someone stuck them on themselves. It just looks weird.

[@volkswizard]

It will be interesting to see what people do, best solution is remove and fit the dagger badges back - we don't need our GTIs to look crap just because the bloody GTE has a charging port on the wing!

[@richweston6202]

@@volkswizard my thoughts exactly!

[@RickGTI2019]

Great comparison. Any VW GTI is great in my opinion. Thanks, RickGTI….. 🇺🇸

[@volkswizard]

Right on Rick!

[@malcolmscott4150]

Lovely TCR but Clubsport S man stripped out sounds amazing and a keeper for sure 🏆🎯

[@volkswizard]

I will keep it for as long as I can afford to - it's weird how selling my first one has made me appreciate this one more but that's just human nature I guess :)

[@markgreen4455]

Great video Andrew tnx

[@volkswizard]

Thanks so much Mark, much appreciated.

[@Car_obsessive]

What is the difference between the CCS and TCR that’s gives more feel in the steering? Absolutely love my TCR but can relate to the lack of feedback through the wheel. Thinking some of the CCS parts may change this?

[@olnaj]

Great video.

[@AllanFarrell]

I've been trying to source the red piping floormats for over a year for RHD. Can't find them anywhere. I have a standard mk7.5 and mine came with the same airducts as the tcr, apparently VW "forgot" to install fog lights on early UK mk7.5s

[@volkswizard]

My CSS had them in the dealer's photos, then when I went to see it they were gone. They offered to replace them but couldn't find any so I eventually (six months later) found a set from a TCR on ebay and they paid for those. That's really your only hope. Interesting re the missing lights, that does ring a bell now :)

[@DarrenJMHughes]

Although I like the TCR but I think a regular GTi Performance is a better all round package as it’s not trying to be something it really is not a track weapon like the CSS is. I find when I restart the engine in mine after driving it a while it will pop burble on that initial start up. I thought all TCR would be keyless. Rare finding one with a keyed ignition…. Maybe buy a tcr for your wife…..

[@volkswizard]

She doesn't get on with the seats unfortunately. When 2020 model year came along and 5 door became standard along with Akrapovic, I believe all went keyless (just as keyless relay theft hit the headlines 🙈) 7.5 Performance is a not a quiet car which is good, in 2018, presumably pre PPF, I stood on Bruntingthorpe drag strip watching one fly down runway and you could still hear it a long way off.

[@dasautogt]

Andrew! Stop covering up your address, how am I meant to drop in univinted on my next Blighty 🇬🇧 trip. 🤷 Ah well, I'll just have to hang about Gilks'. 😁👍 Very thorough review. VW really do have their work cut out matching these 7s with the 8.5s IMO. 😬🤞

[@billx4266]

Andrew i love gti's but you have to talk about those stupid raised prices for those newer mk8 and mk8.5 cars, and if they are still worth it....

[@volkswizard]

No they aren't worth it, I think I mentioned that in last video about 8.5. VW know pricing is important and they will have plentiful suppy of Mk8.5 unlike Mk8 so need to entice people especially with 10% + APR so VW need to make 8.5 cheaper (somewhere between Mk8 launch and 2014 prices) and still give 10-15% off. Making a car people actually want to but is more important but however good it is, pricing is key

[@lewemooke]

What golf would you recommend to someone who hasn't owned a vw and coming from a focus st mountune

[@volkswizard]

Tricky one, a TCR would be closest in spirit, nothing else with 300 ish and front wheel drive. A Mk7 Clubsport with a sensible tune and R600 intake would be good if you get a nice spec with bucket seats, manual or DSG, 3dr of 5dr it's up to you, DSG is more durable if you want to tune.

[@nickwilliamson6712]

I went from a focus St to Clubsport ED40, night and day. I got a Revo ECU tune and it transformed it, very capable car.

[@AerialMotion-Photography]

The Cupra 290 is basically the same as the TCR isn't it?

[@paultaylor9652]

Like me you're probably of a certain age now. Most younger people probably won't even notice the things that a car enthusiast does , it'll all be about the PCP/insurance monthly outlay and to say they drive a VW GTi Andrew.

[@volkswizard]

That's true Paul, I do feel the manufacturers know this and are taking full of advantage, downgrading carpet quality for example because it doesn't affect instagram likes.

[@abtcup]

Bitter that we don't get the CSS here in the US.

[@volkswizard]

is it 13 years until you can import?

[@stevenmassey3369]

Messaged about the tcr but no reply guess it’s sold?

[@volkswizard]

Hi Steven, how did you message me as I didn't see any messages. Always best to email as really hard to keep on top of other messages and sales ones always take priority - [e-mail]

[@davidthomas7424]

Which golf is the top of the range ? tcr or R or clubsport

[@volkswizard]

The R was more expensive so that was officially top of the range but that doesn’t make it a superior performance car. For example a Touareg is even higher up the VW range but that doesn’t make it better to drive.

[@kratos9223]

I'm on my fourth Golf, third R, and second MK7. Even the MK5/6 GTI/R models had better build quality than what is perceived in the MK8 GTI/R.

[@volkswizard]

5 and 6 were superior to 7 IMHO.

[@kratos9223]

@@volkswizard I concur!

[@obsessedcloset2638]

Word of warning with the Clubsport. The wind roof surround. They crack and and absolute fortune to replace. Beware!

[@volkswizard]

That's a big issue with 7 and 7.5, I think the more you open it the more chance of cracking with it shut, the trim is braced which prevents excessive twist. A crap design but thankfully one of the few things better with Mk8.

[@markomarin3414]

Golf TCR or megane RS trophy?

[@robertcoughlan8272]

Another great video Andrew @volkswizard. I’ve finally gotten all the bugs sorted with my Clubsport, it took over 12 months but I still love the car. I might be tempted to get the 8.5 🤔🤔🤔

[@volkswizard]

That’s good to know Robert. So which bugs did you have? The worse one that was unavoidable as it was cruise related was the one where it slowed you down when legally overtaking on a UK motorway because it though you were a lhd drive car in a lhd country and you were overtaking.

[@chrisp4899]

I'm not sure about the badge on the door

[@scorber23]

Fire! .. I was hoping for a new VOLKSWIZARD GTI vid. Tits!

[@andreadebona3859]

Does anybody use a gti as a family car in here? I am thinking about getting one

[@volkswizard]

They are perfect in 5 door DSG form for pretty much anything, don't need a TCR though, a 7.5 GTI Performance does everything well, just avoid 19" wheels which can make the ride a bit too firm for some tastes (mainly those of passengers).

[@andreadebona3859]

@@volkswizard thank you very much.. All I needed to know. Top channel 💪🏻

[@wizkid01]

Such a shame you can't get a 3 door golf no more!

[@alivekicking6247]

"SEAT feeling?" ... I always think my Cupra interior and position of displays is far superior to all the Golfs.

[@no1kingofconvenience]

2 years ago, just after you sold your TCR you did the comparison. I was in the process of selling my TCR and lost a couple of sales due to your review, I didn’t think that was an honest way to behave then as you are a dealer. Wow i think you have proved me right with this, do you now have a TCR to sell ?

[@volkswizard]

Not sure what you are referring to but I don't appear to be plugging any TCR for sale in this video do I?

[@richy_rude]

Hi Andy I watched your video about the MK8 GOLF GTD kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYXLpHiBpbeomaM and I kinda disagree about the driving experience. I've owned a MK8 GOLF GTD since for nearly 2 years since new and it hasn't blown me away. It's a good car, comfortable great seats but that's where it ends. I get around 41 MPG driving exclusively around town, which is roughly 410 miles from a tank (Averaging 18 MPH or so). So the fuel economy whilst good, could be better. There is HUGE lag from the engine. Yes, it supposedly has 400NM of torque from 1,800 RPM or so but it doesn't feel like that. The engine from low down (Circa 1,200 RPM which is the defacto 'comfort' setting RPM) bogs down. It's very unresponsive, almost feels dead. Then there's a delay, waiting for something to happen, then it finally picks up. There's no surge from 1,800 (Which apparently is where the torque kicks in), but a more linear speed pick up from past 2,000RPM. You can counteract some of the laziness of the engine by either switching to sport on gearbox or full on sport mode, which it notches the RPM up by another 400RPM or so. This improves the throttle response but it's still no ball of fire, certainly not as quick as you'd imagine a 200PS diesel to be in the real world. Another problem with either S on gearbox or full on sports mode is that the engine revs past the maximum power. Peak power is like 3,800RPM. So the engine revving to 4,500RPM or even 5,000RPM in sports mode is utterly pointless. You would think putting the GTD in sports mode then selecting D on gearbox would be the best of both worlds, better throttle response and engine changing before it runs out of puff, but it doesn't work. Selecting D on gearbox whilst in Sports mode numbs everything down again, it affects not just the gearbox but the throttle response too!? I drove a Seat Arona 1 litre turbo petrol whilst my GTD was at the garage and this picked up better than my GTD! LOL. The throttle response was sensitive, no dead feel, and the power came in quick! Up to 2,500RPM the Arona felt the quicker car. So in closing, the MK8 GTD is a comfortable car with great seats (Especially if you've got a bad back like me). But it doesn't live up to the GTD moniker IMO. I feel peeps would be better off getting a lower powered 2.0TDI Golf instead. They wouldn't miss out on much, hopefully get some better economy. And if you want those seats, just get an R-Line instead. Cheers.

[@volkswizard]

Maybe you've got a bad one or in 2 years VW have improved the engine/gearbox? Not sure what you are expecting from a GTD? In all the areas you describe its superior to every GTD from the past so maybe your expectations are unrealistic?