Guardian Journo Whines About Palestine and Climate Boycotts

[@Henbot]

It really is them desperately trying to ignore that boycotting South Africa worked.

[@purrple.shadows]

That boycott only came about after lots of pressure and many years.

[@MarianneExJohnson]

@@purrple.shadowsSo?

[@knuckles543]

@@purrple.shadows meaning it worked!

[@purrple.shadows]

@@knuckles543 Yes but there was a huge amount of resistance to the boycott with claims that it would never work and that sport, for example, shouldn't be politicised.

[@user-xu5vl5th9n]

Maybe that is what Annie Lennox and other celebrities thought, but no serious political analyst would agree. It was the end of the Cold War that did that along with internal social changes within South Africa. Western celebrities are so vain they think it is all about them.

[@sargonsblackgrandfather2072]

Seeing the role the Guardian played in taking down Corbyn really crystallised in my mind the idea that they’re controlled opposition. They’re there to give the illusion of opposition weight.

[@lawrencium2626]

seeing g readers complain about dm readers that they can't seem to notice how profusely their newspaper lies to them, I say it's the same with every news media, you can't spot the lies designed for you. "Yeah, but it's just so *obvious*, how can they not see it!? They get so angry when you question anything 'their' precious paper tells them." - then you question something from the g; watch as your interlocutor immediately descends into the same patterns of insults, bargaining and outburst, but with better pronounciation, and more syllables.

[@pipster1891]

Their support of the Iraq War, too.

[@markcutts383]

Simple question for myself: What exactly is The Guardian - guarding? Answer: AUKUS and this is why their main focus is in the US. very anti Trump - very pro democrat no matter which idiot they have in charge.

[@FRIDAY8BALL]

They are dinosaurs.

[@MrChiddler]

Corbyn was a disaster. The only thing he’s opposed to is winning elections.

[@edwardferry8247]

"In relation to Israels military operations in Gaza, we conclude that Israeli authorities are responsible for war crimes.. including extermination.. murder, using starvation as a method of war, forcible transfer.." The UN Human Rights Council report published today is damning. Timing.

[@sarahpengelly8439]

On Gaza/Palestine I've found the Guardian muted generally which is very disappointing. Probably because ISRAEL/PALESTINE until recently was almost taboo to discuss. But now we are all fully aware of the power that Israeli influence & lobbying has in our society. To equate criticism of the Israeli State with antisemitism, we are wiser & will no longer be silent!!

[@edwardferry8247]

@@sarahpengelly8439 indeed we won’t.

[@zeeone4492]

​@@sarahpengelly8439are east Europeans even Semites Palestinians certainly are

[@m9017t]

Give back the hostages

[@Gregorypeckory]

@@m9017t Do you mean the 7000 Palestinians being held without charge, including children, held hostage by the apartheid state, or do you mean the tiny fraction of that number, that Hamas took Oct 7th?

[@honestxboxgamer]

The Guardian have been a disgrace with their coverage and silence over Gaza. The Independent too. When the western aid workers were killed by the IDF the Independent finally called for a ceasefire and made it clear that it was the killing of the aid workers that made them call for it and made no apologies about it. 'Enough. It may seem wrong that, after more than 30,000 Palestinians in Gaza have perished, it took the deaths of just seven international aid workers to stir Western governments into a sense of outrage, but that is the reality' Independent editorial 3 April 2024 Well done to the likes of Novara Media and Owen Jones for doing their best to show the public what is happen for the war on Gaza.

[@ashthetic_art]

As we all know, Shakespeare famously never wrote anything political. He simply wrote a lot of plays about fictional and historical political leaders and how their hubris led to tragedies.

[@kurremkarmerruk8718]

Yep. All above board. No need for the Lord Chamberlain to spend time reading through Mr. Shajespeare's latest offering . . .

[@lheureexquise140]

Shakespeare was also writing before the English revolution and before there was any meaningful democracy in this country. It's an absurd comparison.

[@MrBobthened]

Tragedy about how two houses hating each other for no reason led to the deaths of two young lovers? No politics to be seen there 🤪.

[@ailblentyn]

And his English history plays ARE propaganda. (As well as being wonderful works of literature. It’s not either/or.)

[@briancrowther3272]

Shakespeare was totally political. He had to suck up to the monarchy to survive, he was nrilliamt but also a opportunist.

[@merked1980]

Listening to her speak makes me proud that for the last few years I haven't touched the Guardian.. Actually did a survey and out of the first 23 journalists i looked up, 18/19 went to oxford. It's nothing more than a club for the upper middle to pretend theyre morally decent people when they're anything but.....

[@mw2000]

Hyde's position is basically "Protesting is fine until you come after something that affects what I like (and in the case of literary festivals make a decent chunk of cash from every year)."

[@_Ahmed_W-]

Something happened to the WaPo and the Guardian after Snowden, and whatever it was, it wasn't good.

[@knuckles543]

probably bought out and forced to capitulate

[@gregrot]

MI6

[@patcampton7163]

It's not been the same since Rusbridger left.

[@Google_Does_Evil_Now]

It's pure shit now. I read it just to try to work out how full of shit it is.

[@basfinnis]

The Guardian. It's the Daily Telegraph with avocado.

[@_Ahmed_W-]

Yup, just another Imperial mouthpiece that masquerades as anti establishment.

[@KlausBahnhof]

Brilliant appraisal!!

[@Badgerbeard]

But where did the avocado come from?

[@sarahpengelly8439]

I disagree! I read the Guardian & most of the time it is very good. However there are omissions...they have been definitely treading too carefully over Gaza/Palestine & I won't forget that!!

[@mobsiesixsixsix9785]

@@sarahpengelly8439 But you were ok with them attacking Corbyn???

[@davidspencer7254]

It boils down to this: we are the upper middle class, you need our permission to shift the moral zeitgeist and you need to knock on the tradesmans door of our reality bubble and wipe your shoes before you intrude on our thoughts.

[@nfa001]

It's that completely self-convinced air of private school and Oxbridge entitlement as she spouts total nonsense that irritates most, clearly amazed by her own brilliance as she listens to herself.

[@thomascroft5076]

She's AI's version of Julie Burchill.

[@jfm14]

Forgive me if I'm a bit more concerned about kids having a future than being able to attend literary festivals. 🙄

[@Badchicken1]

I have stopped commenting on the Guardian because for instance one can’t mention the word genocide in relation to Gaza ! The so called moderators won’t allow it!

[@adriftinaboat3452]

Absolutely

[@m9017t]

It’s because calling it a genocide is factually incorrect

[@Badchicken1]

No it’s not.

[@TheIrland09]

A bit like how you absolutely could not question the safety of a certain treatment during the pandemic.

[@patcampton7163]

Banned me, predictive text.

[@TheMadmacs]

what a silly woman, claiming art suffers when its politisized lol.

[@doubledowndoubled]

Holy Crap. What is she saying... is she talking about opium for the masses as in entertainment? Is she thinking about about football? Did she read Shakespeare? wtf

[@ElliotPorter65]

Wait until she reads other classical authors like Charles Dickens 😂

[@doubledowndoubled]

@@ElliotPorter65 ThAtS nOt aRt.. I hear her say. Its just a book.

[@zwartepoesje]

AHH the daughter of a Baron, establishment as they come.

[@alingard1]

I'm sick n tired of the guardian, it's journalism just gets worse and worse. I lost track of how many times I got banned. I finally divorced myself from paying for this drivel . Katherine Viber is about as left as JRM

[@herjinderbhatia8285]

JRM = Jacob Reece Mobb, right.

[@mickvonbornemann3824]

Absolutelly, they are quite literally under the thumb of the security service, now the Guardian have their own number on the D-notice board

[@tobleramone]

It's free.

[@timelwell7002]

Like Aaron, I too can see both sides of this debate. Speaking as a musician, I believe that music is - for the most part - non political. A Chopin Nocturn is non political. A Be-Bop tune by Charlie Parker is non-political. That said, a song by Billy Bragg or Bob Dylan is likely to be VERY political. A painting by Van Gogh of sunflowers is non-political. But Picasso's painting 'Guernica' was most definitely political. But funding for the arts is perhaps somewhat different from art itself, in that the means by which the money donated was made in the first place can - and should - be called into question. Marina Hyde is deliberately conflating these two separate things - (1) The Arts, and (2) Funding/Patronage of The Arts. Two entirely SEPARATE things, Ms Hyde. Now write 100 lines: 'I must not conflate the Arts with Funding for the Arts...'

[@torsion2]

finally some sense in the comments

[@highdownmartin]

Exactly. Some not ,all ,art is political. But some sponsorship is like a medieval superrich wool baron building a cathedral to get him to heaven All the oil companies do it, sponsoring photos of wildlife but not seabird’s covered in oil. And Marina, like every one else at Hay, drove there. In a car.

[@Marxist2]

The Guardian is a shame to humanity.

[@kurtgodel5236]

Why?

[@bestbehave]

Really?? 😂😂😂

[@endatreanor5263]

In general it's a good newspaper, don't always agree with it but it's usually quite well researched

[@Wildgrowsthenature]

​@@kurtgodel5236 End the Genocide

[@OKnotOK09]

​@endatreanor5263 Sire it's about the best centre-left newspaper in the country but It's a Liberal gatekeeper institution. It will go so far but no further. It waa filled with anit-Corbyn propaganda. It sropped Assange like a stone when pressured.

[@thegoat11111]

The Guardian mods banned me three times. I'm very proud of this.

[@The_shadowcraft]

Same. BTL is an embarrassment…the narrowest of Overton windows…

[@sam3317]

You wanna try the chat on a Novara livestream. Those mods love censorship.

[@jj-uy6qs]

you should be: good work

[@The_shadowcraft]

@@sam3317 I think Aaron gets it…the others…not so much…

[@nickb9162]

my commenting history ended as quickly as it began when `if asked if Palestinians also had a free trial of the israeli spyware ' pegasus ' Funny that they allow sweary words in response to hyde but lets not get ' controversial ' ( unless written by one of their hacks .

[@InAotearoa-kj5sd]

The same Marina Hyde that had an affair with Piers Morgan. Hahaha... Thanks for the lecture. As for the Guardian, anyone publication that describes Benny Gantz as a "moderate politician" is a complete joke.

[@charliebridges3584]

I am surprised anybody reads The Guardian anymore. I know I stopped 5 years ago. I get my news through online sources and Al Jazeera.

[@Petraisshred]

“I’m afraid throughout the whole of human history awful things have been happing but I must be allowed to enjoy myself and be able to ignore it”

[@keithpp1]

Don't take dirty money. It's as simple as that.

[@jujutrini8412]

Shakespeare’s works were political though. 😂

[@mynewcolour]

If you take money from unethical business or state then that act is political. It has nothing to do with art.

[@skrysiak]

I have begrudging respect for Marina Hyde stealing a living at the Grauniad. Not many newspaper opinion writers can get away with submitting the same column every week

[@mynewcolour]

For decades.

[@ElliotPorter65]

A lot of literature can be analysed from political point of views, that is mostly English literature as a subject.

[@daraghokane4236]

All litterateur can I can disagree with the lessons in Mr men books

[@sherazmalik2179]

It is having a major effect. Hence the whining.

[@lamueldagon7618]

Exactly and it will only increase.

[@-xirx-]

Shakespeare was full of politics

[@mrmr446]

The sponsors don't contribute art to the festival, they chose to promote the event as a whole, so whether or not any art is political is irrelevant it was chosen as an event to sponsor for PR reasons so obviously that raises the question- 'what are they trying to clean?' when it comes to their image.

[@zzzzoijzzzzz]

Do you think all sponsorship is just a way to clean up a company's dodgy image? All big corporations seem to sponsor events, presumably in this case they thought literary types might be more inclined to invest money through Bailley Gifford in the future.

[@mrmr446]

@@zzzzoijzzzzz I think most companies have something to hide and I don't believe they are being altruistic, they want a PR benefit.

[@darrenjamrock2677]

Baillie Gifford doesn't only invest in fossil fuel companies but also actively invest in Israeli companies and have some of the largest investment company manager exposure in the UK

[@fuckbankers]

They have investments worth £60m in the owners of a Scots dockyard that is linked to state-owned Israeli arms manufacturers.

[@steveharrison76]

She’s such a lightweight pretending to be a heavyweight. It’s not about art being politicised. It’s about a particular organisation not wanting to take money from a company that makes money from an industry that results in misery and death. She’s putting out all this long-winded bollocks and it’s just (at best) that she’s missed the point, or (at worst) actively gaslighting people to try and get them to believe that this is about the politicisation of art. In short, she’s coming across as a bit thick.

[@sam3317]

Maybe we shouldn't be having festivals that can't fund themselves with ticket sales.

[@francescaa7093]

Someone on the Guardian recently had a column after the Eurovision where they spoke admiringly about the Israeli contestant's dignified behaviour and said poor thing was told to stay in her room all the time. I just remember it was a female journalist Probably this silly cow with her twisting of words. The guardian's editor also has definite connections to the wrong people. Their coverage has been so biased. Such a shame and so shameless 😢. Thank you Novara media

[@sheilamashali6426]

I have never heard such verbal diarrhoea from a so called journalist. I researched the list of Journalists working for the Guardian after some comments I saw on line. It’s lost a lot of the integrity that I once thought it had and partly because they employ these type of journalists.

[@Enormous866]

She’s enjoyed her guardian gravy train for her crappy column for a long time now

[@lsobrien]

Listening to that Richard Osman podcast surely meets the grounds of "cruel and unusual punishment"?

[@alfsmith4936]

I listened to a couple of them and decided it's just a couple of posh people, blowing smoke up each other, stating the obvious and praising their friends' work, like they are the be all and end all of TV.

[@edelbutler8027]

The Guardian has NOT covered this genocide AT ALL, it is terrible, silence is complicity

[@alien4422]

Hyde reminds me of the child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

[@lamueldagon7618]

Lol😂😂😂

[@AppleAirsoft]

Almost a parody of the waitrose customer, they live off serving oligarchs.

[@lawrencium2626]

look up lackeys

[@michaeldelgiudice1057]

can't understand anything this woman is saying. she sounds like trump.

[@healy-rw9tk]

More shills

[@keithpp1]

Art for arts sake does not mean have to take dirty money.

[@aircongosney]

I was so annoyed hearing her and Richard complain about their book festivals and eurovision. What a joke

[@csharpe5787]

Surely she’s missing the point, that it’s the sponsors of the First festival and not the art that is the issue.

[@davechambers4867]

The Guardian, full of Starmer groupies.

[@torsion2]

sounds like you havent read it

[@davechambers4867]

@chilledtorsion I have been judging the paper on its coverage of Starmer since 2020.

[@uhoh2825]

that point about Shakespeare was very funny, Like he wasn’t deeply involved with and playing politics. His work was literally propaganda.

[@JohnHughesChampigny]

Her William Shakespeare story is insane. She doesn't know that Elizabethan England was a police state?

[@thairk]

Great comments!

[@Saxon1969]

Remember how long it took South Africa apartheid to fall ! Keep going

[@Naomi-de2ps]

Boycott the guardian.

[@fuckbankers]

Years ago.

[@cristinapiccoli3058]

She's like the Guardian, a hypocrite.

[@sarahadam8334]

Thank you for highlighting this issue I normally don’t mind marina being opinionated for entertainment. But she was soooo ignorant in that segment I really went off her And wrote enough on their KZbin channel I am waiting for her to apologise

[@akym82810]

I think I heard somewhere: "I'm left wing and I think some left-wingers are the most annoying people in the world but that isn't going to stop me being left wing." Also Aaron, what you had for dinner isn't political? Food is probably one of the most politicised topics from the beginning - sometimes reasonably, most times clumsily.

[@maxxidle]

3 meals a day does equal 3 votes day. It can impact the entire food market through supply and demand.

[@MrFinbarz]

Why does she think this company were sponsoring the event in the first place? It certainly wasn't for any altruistic reasons.

[@susansusan9367]

100% agree with Marina

[@stewart5738]

The chicken coronation? I think you meant coronation chicken, unless you're referring to KC!

[@antonydavis2764]

She wasn’t saying boycotts were wrong, more that this one was misjudged. Which it was.

[@calumroche2851]

Stating a position without any reasoning. Great.

[@antonydavis2764]

@@calumroche2851 did you listen to the podcast or just a sound bite? She set out the reasons for her position. You may not agree with them but they were there.

[@calumroche2851]

@@antonydavis2764 Feel free to set out the reasons you think it was misjudged.

[@antonydavis2764]

@@calumroche2851 I’m not going to rehash all the reasons MH stated. Listen to the podcast if you want.

[@ailblentyn]

Even if not all art is directly political in its content, it is always in a social context. Even outsider art.

[@AlanBolshevik]

What we really need to do is tackle this at the level of production by taking fossil fuels out of the hands of private capital and the profit motive.

[@Claire-dg3gh]

There is a simpler non political judgement, its not that complex. Art is culture & culture is propaganda.

[@Pseudonym25]

Thank you

[@leowalless9328]

So is there an unwritten rule that journalists must never criticise journalists they like? The main focus of this story is Marina Hyde's comments, but what did Richard Osman say? Did he push back? Did he agree? Did he double down? How did that go?

[@AtheistEve]

Boycott the Guardian.

[@MrPaddy924]

Oh yeah, great idea...leave Rupert Murdoch with a monopoly. Marvellous.

[@AtheistEve]

@@MrPaddy924 it ought to go without saying that everyone here is already boycotting Murdoch.

[@Coops5361]

The personal is political, just as society is political. The creation, production & consumption of art does not exist in a vacuum. How can it not be political?

[@torsion2]

by denying your first premise

[@wynbaxi5910]

The Guardian is like Kier Starmer, unprincipled, immoral and two faced.

[@techdeckofficial]

"art for the sake of art is just another piece of deodorised dog shit" - Chinua Achebe

[@The_Long_Bones_of_Tom_Hoody]

Aaron is multi talented. He is a very good journalist and I personally love his sense of humour. I love the way he delivers his lines. Come to the Edinburgh festival and do some shows, Aaron. Im sure you could do a political/comedy stand-up performance. I know a natural entertainer when I see one

[@shambobilla]

Would have been great if someone had stuck up for Ireland in Shakespeare's day

[@desoliver9712]

The clothes the commentator is wearing is political, and the food he ate is political.

[@mickvonbornemann3824]

Well the Guardian‘s now under the thumb of the security service too.

[@gerhard7323]

Another Guardian refugee here. I've never been made so acutely aware of a media organ actively curating its comment pages. People can say, I think, the most outrageous things on there and there they stay, but step out of line with regards to its own narrative and 'poof' your comment disappears with the usual admonishment never to be seen again. Comment isn't 'Free' on The Guardian and it hasn't been for years.

[@bradleywalsh8571]

And if you try to remove the politics, then that in itself is........political.

[@luisbustamante9869]

Farage's choice of socks every morning is highly political.

[@dudley0007]

Middle class born and bred

[@SkyNet-T-1000]

You mean elites

[@sratus]

Is Bastani supposed to have worked down the pit???

[@zzzzoijzzzzz]

Marina is the daughter of a Baronet so she's most likely upper class... also until the election was called Richard was the son in law if a sitting Conservative MP

[@MohamedGX]

Funny she feels so constricted and contracted by not condemning Israel. Did she sufficiently condemn Hamas?

[@za.307]

Hydes columns always came across as smug and over privileged nonsense. I'm not that smart or well educated, but I don't know. I wonder if Marina can tell me what the Guernica painting by Picasso was about?.

[@alaricnewnham8911]

Reading the Guardian is a contraction of the mind

[@Gujratiah]

Reminds me of the mum in viz's modern parents

[@otisdeayala7399]

You need to reduce the use of an exaggerated stress at the end of every fking sentence. It is genuinely annoying

[@dzonbrodi514]

Marina Hyde is really reaching with her imaginary time "when Shakespeare was threatened with being cancelled". Holy shit m'lady, leave some straw for the rest for us to play with

[@sarahpengelly8439]

So we should have let the British Museum off the hook & ignored the very uncomfortable fact that it has been funded by fossil fuel giants? After all culture is art.... Broaden this notion a wee bit then. Not just art but culture, music & let's not forget sport!! And then we return to the bad old days where big corporations involved in destructive industries are able to sweeten their image as sponsors. Isn't this what divestment is all about?

[@calumroche2851]

Yes, never mind the American opioid crisis; the Sacla family sponsor some lovely galleries.

[@marcoose777]

Sir Alastair Edgcumbe James Dudley-Williams, 2nd Baronet... says it all.

[@fuckbankers]

Buying art is a good way of laundering ones money.

[@davidcrosier2761]

Aaron, what you have for dinner is also political. Especiallly when you choose food that is unethical and unsustainable..

[@Umuma871]

I think her argument re-Shakespeare doesn’t really hold water, Julius Caesar, King Lear, Hamlet, Macbeth, and Othello are all explorations of political themes. In these he explores political structures and distribution of power and influence, e.g., like monarchy succession and the threat of tyranny vs contemporary political principles. So not sure what her point is 🤔… What would William say if asked about Queen Elizabeth and her tyrannical oppression of people….read/watch his plays

[@ongoingness]

If you don't believe in anything, you'll fall for, and be deceived by, and bypass, and ultimately justify everything. Odious.

[@neilfowler3284]

Great to have commentators commenting on commentators

[@colinellesmere]

I stopped subscribing to the Guardian after I realised it is little better than the rest of mainstream media.

[@MartianTom]

The Guardian exposed as part of the Establishment. Well... there's a surprise, I don't think!

[@tobylerone4285]

In this house, Marina Hyde is a saint. End of discussion!

[@fuckbankers]

Guardian of the status quo.

[@datfly3034]

FYI, your choice of socks is probably political - the decision to purchase socks from a fast fashion outlet, local clothing retailer, handmade local producer, or, indeed , even the fibre the sock is composed of has political significance on so many levels.

[@datfly3034]

The idea that ‘art’ can somehow divorce itself from the rest of society (including politics) is ridiculous. Politics is about power and control - to say that art can somehow be separated from this context is absurd. This kind of argument is designed to shut down dissent and debate regarding political issues. It’s the same kind of rhetoric that claims actors, musicians, and athletes should not comment on politics.

[@torsion2]

no it isnt. How about electronic dance music? The producers may have political opinions , but by and large 99.9% of the music is apolitical.

[@cjeffrey8713]

'Marina Hyde is the daughter of Sir Alastair Edgcumbe James Dudley-Williams, 2nd Baronet, and his wife, the former Diana Elizabeth Jane Duncan. Through her father, she is the granddaughter of aviation pioneer and Conservative politician Sir Rolf Dudley-Williams, 1st Baronet. She attended Downe House School Private boaring school), near Newbury in Berkshire,[1] and read English at Christ Church, Oxford.[2]' - Wikipedia. So it's silver spoon nepo baby rage then.

[@stevezodiacXL5]

Wow - Hyde has a MUCH posher voice than I expected! I'm not keen on her for the same reason I'm not keen on Ian Hislop - they mock all sides, which is fine, but there is always an underlying small 'c' conservatism. Never rock the boat, any attempt at real change is 'student politics' etc. Private Eye and The Guardian have both had excellent journalists, and have done good things in the past, but when the chips are down, they are Establishment through and through, and will always break Right when faced with a difficult decision.

[@KG-lr2qw]

One day these people will get that tax does not fund governments. Money comes from the government, not the other way around. UK gov is self-financing, it owns the BoE. Tax has a lot of functions, but funding a government is not one of them. We tax payers are not the source of money, if we create pounds that's called counterfeiting and is illegal, only the BoE can create pounds

[@ghotio1927]

No evidence The William Shakespear existed . The figure we all know of was definitely a political commentator .

[@LeornianCyng]

Yes art should exist, no one is denying that. What most people want is for large corporations not to engage in what constitutes to art / culture / media / sport / nature washing. There are better ways for the private sector (sponsors) to conduct business in a way which is best for both people and planet. Also start making books from hemp or recycled paper.