Gullwing GTE inspection

[@tomgill8267]

Great video Tom. Thanks for sharing your valuable experience of taking a novice buyer through the risks and pitfalls of buying a 1960s Ferrari. I wasn’t so wise as to take an expert with me when I bought my 1969 365GT 2+2 in the U.K. It had 96000 miles on the odometer and looked beautiful. Within the first week it blew 6 piston rings in the workshop having its pre-delivery workshop check. Fortunately I bought from a main Ferrari dealer who gave me a full 12 months engine and gearbox warranty and they rebuilt the whole engine at their cost. It took them a year as they had to manufacture from scratch new crankshafts etc.. It would have cost me ca £80k had I had to pay for it. Narrow escape. I still have it now 7 years later and it runs beautifully. Moral of the story, take an expert with you when you go to the showroom, or buy from a very reputable dealer with a valuable reputation to maintain. Interestingly, the boss of the dealer reckoned that it was a young mechanic who was used to working on modern Ferrari engines who didn’t realise older ones have to be carefully nursed up to temperature before revving them up. Expensive lesson for that guy. Thanks again Tom, very interesting.

[@tomyangnet]

I also remind buyers that hiring me does not insure a 60 year old car will continue to perform as I determined! I tell them I don't have x-ray vision, or a crystal ball to predict a future, but I can take my experience and apply it to a car to determine if it had been cared for properly, and isn't about to fall apart. Queen Mothers are wonderful cars and keeps up well in traffic, as long as you can find space for parking when you arrive, especially in the UK! Thanks for watching!

[@TonyBarr99]

This was a really great video Tom. Thanks!

[@tomyangnet]

I'm glad you liked it, and thanks for watching it!

[@wallyr.7854]

I LOVE these videos, Tom is the Ferrari Whisperer 🙇🏻‍♂️

[@tomyangnet]

It was like a crash course in 250GTEs! Thanks for watching!

[@wallyr.7854]

@@tomyangnet I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, classic Ferrari owners any driving distance from your shop are LUCKY, as my kids would say, U Da Man 👍🏼

[@vizsla54]

Before buying my car I had decades of reading about Ferraris in general and a couple of years dedicated to researching individual models on F-Chat and other on line resources. I was able to recognize a good car when I found one but there were still plenty of surprises in store. Having someone like you go over a potential purchase is money extremely well spent.

[@tomyangnet]

There are NO advocates for the buyer and everyone lies, or bends the truth. Sellers lie about why they're selling, brokers don't ask or answer the questions that will sink a sale. Buyers are left with the deception of a car that they love and wanted for a long time. This may be extreme, but I could not imagine going into buying a Ferrari or any high dollar car without some kind of expert. Thanks for watching

[@supersonique001]

@@tomyangnet Could not agree more with your statement! From experience with Ferraris I have had I trust no one especially the wheeler dealers of exotics regardless of their flashy world reputations and even less the auction houses that prey on illusion and provenance! No wonder Leno thinks the way he does about Ferrari!

[@tomyangnet]

@@supersonique001 it’s not just about Ferrari, but used collector cars in general!

[@vizsla54]

@@tomyangnet thanks for being upfront about this. Too many people who know better remain quiet, fearing I don’t know what. Sorry to miss you this year at LRP.

[@tomyangnet]

@@vizsla54 The whole business of car sales is based on fooling the buyer into writing a check!

[@richardg8651]

Very valuable video for anyone contemplating a classic car purchase. I love the phycology behind such a purchase. As great a restorer as Tommy is, he is even more valuable as an evaluator and as a therapist. 😁

[@tomyangnet]

@@richardg8651 I wear a lot of hats when it comes to my clients! Thanks for watching.

[@arts.4014]

@@tomyangnet Therapist - you should adopt that as your title and have 'The therapist is in' hung above the door when you are at the shop... :^)

[@robertbcope]

Gotta say, the mismatched oil filters really bother me.

[@tomyangnet]

@@robertbcope kind of matched the rest of the car!

[@supersonique001]

Every time I visit Gullwing motorcars' web site I shudder like a fly trapped in a spider's web ! LOL.

[@tomyangnet]

@@supersonique001 the warehouse of dreams…some of them nightmares!

[@supersonique001]

@@tomyangnet A veritable 'Twilight Zone' !

[@gitchermotrrunnin]

Thanks for the video. I feel you did look out for the guy's best interest. I agree that emotion plays a big part with the car hobby, One thing newbies have to understand is that cars give but they also take. To use a quote that is attributed to the late Smokey Yunick "this is going to run into money, said the monkey as he peed on the cash register". lol

[@tomyangnet]

I love cars as much if not more than the next guy, but realize the business banks of these emotions. Some of my job is to be voice of reason! Thanks for watching.

@@tomyangnet I find that if I have to convince myself to buy a vehicle (e.g. "the car is not that bad", or " I am sure that I can sort it out", etc ), that there are issues/problems with the car that my logical brain sees.... but my emotional side ignores these details. In almost all cases the smart move for me was to pass on the car, as it turned out to need far more than I anticipated.

[@arts.4014]

Every old car is like that. Even the show queens. Buy it, deal with the pain while basking in the joy. Re-reading that, it probably comes across wrong... but it's true. Sure you can buy something new or a resto-mod but there's a joy in experiencing the real thing, warts and all.

[@1BCamden]

Great episode Tom, fortunately the guy was smart enough to engage your services up front and keep the appraisal rational. So hard not to become emotionally attached when looking at such an example, it will sell regardless, so it’s not lost. The little Alfa behind looked nice too.

[@tomyangnet]

There's always something in the background that might be worth a second look! That's how they get you! Thanks for watching!

[@1BCamden]

Hahaha, so true

[@tomnielsen4469]

Long workday for me, Toms videoes is good for me , sharp informative, tom,denmark

[@tomyangnet]

@@tomnielsen4469 glad you like watching!

[@Selmerpilot]

Bless you for even going down to look at these things. I have absolutely zero kind things to say about Gullwing, I hate to say that but that has entirely been my experience with them. To anyone considering a car on Gullwing’s website, you must know they know exactly nothing about the cars they have, but they have no problem saying ‘nice driver’ or ‘nice example’. They know nothing about their cars, you need to go over the car 100% and do your homework.

[@tomyangnet]

@@Selmerpilot the flashy showrooms and auctions can do the same thing. Buyer beware!

[@arts.4014]

Nah, just know it's the land of abandoned projects. Go in with that in mind and someone like Tom with you and it will change your outlook. There's a reason used car salesmen have developed a certain reputation, don't assume anything changed just because the cars are older.

[@arts.4014]

Nice color combo! Great Italian 'rustproofing'! I wonder if making it drivable would make it easier or harder for Gullwing to sell. Also, you should look into trying dry ice cleaning on the underside of a car like that - it might make a world of difference.

[@JohnS1961]

Looks like an old used car, shows the ways we fixed things when they were broken before the big run up. Rode plenty hard and put away wet. I'm sure someone enjoyed every minute. Historically they weren't all owned by multi-millionaires no budget guys. But great to see A survivor. Drive a hard bargain!

[@tomyangnet]

@@JohnS1961 right on the bubble. She has some needs!

@@tomyangnet "some" needs? I guess it all depends to what level the new owner wishes to take the car to. Just get it driving ... or a solid/nice driver... an excellent driver... or the sky is the limit.

[@arts.4014]

If you like the character of the car, it's wonderful with five figures of TLC. If you want a creampuff - run away!

[@lyonheart84]

Lol i bet gullwing hate it when they know you are coming to inspect a Ferrari Tom. However to be honest that looked like a pretty decent example for one of their cars. It looked like a good example to preserve as a decent driver rather than try and restore it. I liked the patina of the older paint and probably original leather. Didn't like the muffler clamps on the springs but no doubt a keen amateur had their reasons for the 'modification' 🤔

[@tomyangnet]

@@lyonheart84 I have to hand it to Gullwing for still talking to me, but it’s a testament to their bare bones salesmanship. The black car has its needs, but it wasn’t a total basket case. It’s just a shame I couldn’t take it out for a real drive. Thanks for watching!

[@johnandrews3568]

So on eBay it's asking is $329K. Tom, what is your estimate of its value as is? What would a properly running/driving 250GTE going for these days? Is the seller playing on the 250 mystique?

[@tomyangnet]

A running driving GTE these days is solidly in the mid to high $300K range. Spectacular examples can sell in the 4s and even 5s, but restoring one will easily cost $300K or more. Metal work is the most expensive second to finding missing parts. The thing with 250GTEs is there's a bottom to their lowest prices because their "donor" parts are so expensive and rare. Rebuildable engine cores can cost $75K. That's not including the distributors, intake manifolds, water pumps, and accessories. I've seen transmissions sell from $10-25K! Rear differentials for the same price.Many of the parts on a GTE can be used on the more expensive 250GT models like the Lusso, SWB, and GTO which are 7 and 8 figure cars. Buying a "donor" for a few hundred thousand all of a sudden doesn't seem so expensive for someone who owns a 250SWB. Whenever I see pictures of GTO reunion event in some exotic location, I wonder how many of them have "cheap" GTE engines installed so they can preserve the original matching number block while hammering their car on the track!? This is why you often see a GTE with a chevy drivetrain after a car was stripped for its most valuable parts! This unfortunate economy can sometimes be good for a GTE, as its prices follow the escalating prices of her sisters. They also offer a lot of the same experiences of driving a SWB or Lusso without the 7 figure price tag. Sorry for the long reply, but I would say this car is probably priced right and if I could get it closer to $300 or under, that would be better, but with one caveat, don't restore this car unless you want to spend double what it'll be worth. Fix it, drive it, enjoy it.

[@johnandrews3568]

@@tomyangnet thanks for that. I noticed Gullwing is saying the car is a runner, which it obviously isn't. They have another example same price and looks to be nicer, but who knows.

[@tomyangnet]

@@johnandrews3568 they said it was running and driving the week before, but it wasn’t when I came to see it!

[@theoldmotor4811]

I was interested in the car and Gullwing sent me more photos than what was shown in their add. It included included photos of a list of everything the owner spent on the car. In the list was 2 or 3 gallons of roofing tar and after reading that and also noting the high mileage on it I lost all interest in it. Old timers used to use roofing tar for undercoating, and for covering up rusted out areas

[@tomyangnet]

@@theoldmotor4811 I think there were pictures of the rockers off and being repaired. I’ve seen worse! Thanks for watching.

[@rustyturner431]

I wish I could say I had never seen stuff like this before...but this car shows you what happens to rare/exotic cars that are on the low end of the price scale. They don't get the attention shey should, and repairs are done to a price instead of a standard. This car LOOKS good enough to fool/impress an uninformed buyer, who would then be flummoxed when presented with the bill to put everything right, especially the mechanical problems, which could well be VERY expensive to fix...and the mechanicals are what make a Ferrari a Ferrari. Good video.

[@tomyangnet]

@@rustyturner431 if someone has the patience and a commitment to spend some money, this car could be slowly be brought back. It’s right on the bubble.

[@rustyturner431]

@@tomyangnet I dunno...looks to me like the buyer would wind up with a LOT of money in a pretty-average GTE...but then, I have only a vague idea of what a GTE is currently worth, or what a shop like yours would change to put this one right. If it were me, I'd just look for a better car to begin with. I've had literally dozens of exotics over the years, but the only "rough" one I ever bought was my first Ferrari, a 340 Mexico with a Chevy SB drivetrain. I'd have been better off finding a nice '57 Vette...but it would probably have cost more!

[@tomyangnet]

@@rustyturner431 that 340 Mexico with a missing drivetrain might cost the same as this GTE and cost an additional million to get the engine and driveline made. Believe it or not, it could even make financial sense if you had a couple million and a few years to play with it. The GTE is another kettle of fish. They’re asking $329K. A good running driving example is probably closer to $400K. $70K put into this one will not make it into a $400K car, but $5-8K can probably make it into a decent driver. The suspension will still need to addressed, and there are the leaks, but they can be done in the future. Not many people have a few hundred thousand to put into a car, alas this GTE sits and waits.

[@rustyturner431]

@@tomyangnet Well, the Mex was just a shell of a Ferrari, EVERYTHING else was Chevy. I have no idea what happened to it; I sold it to a fellow from Midland, Texas who was not Jim Hall. I'm sure it would be worth a ton of money if restored...but I didn't have enough money to get it sorted out, much less restored (finding the proper drivetrain, etc). I DO regret not buying my old friend Henry Manney's GTO...but it ws kinda ratty and I have never learned how to do body or interior work. Still, I got to drive it a couple times late at night on both freeways and the PCH, while our wives drank all the bubbly and sorted out the world of dance (they were both ballet dancers). I also wanted a new Alfa GTV, and HNM wanted about the same price for the GTO. In my all-knowing wisdom, I did not see how it could be worth $4500!

[@rustyturner431]

@@tomyangnet Yeah, I'm very glad I started buying cars like this way back when they could be had for fairly-sane prices. A few years ago I had to explain to my insurance man (a new fellow, as my old guy retired) that I had now paid more for insurance premiums than I had expended to BUY my 2 Ferraris. He could not quite fathom that...and I live in a village on the south island of New Zealand. Premiums hereabouts are nothing like the USA or Europe.

[@studiolezard]

Maybe I could afford just an ashtray bit like this one. Could you find me one? I'd make a nice base for it in my wood shop.

[@tomyangnet]

Those ashtrays are available in reproduction, but I think they're about $1200 bucks! Badges are a few hundred...

[@thedrivechannel83]

I was looking at that car on ebay. Looks pretty clean online at least.

[@tomyangnet]

Pictures can be deceiving. The paint was not bad, nor was the interior, but the engine compartment and undercarriage were a mess. I'm kind of disappointed with all the extraneous labels that asks why? All the knobs already had letters on them. The owner couldn't remember "L" is for lights, and "F" is for fog lights? Thanks for watching

[@philreynolds6018]

Look for another Car !

[@stevesachs7414]

Too bad it wasn’t drivable. Those Gullwing jawns.

[@tomyangnet]

@@stevesachs7414 I was looking forward to shooting footage of a the test drive through the streets of queens! Thanks for watching!

[@bngr_bngr]

I’m surprised how little the buyer knew about Ferrari’s. With so many books on Ferrari. Someone ready to spend six figures on a car and they have done zero research. He was lucky he found you.

[@cluckhead1913]

You'd be surprised at how many people around New York would consider the cost of that car their weekend entertainment allowance. It's peanuts to them. He probably saw one of Tom's videos and thought 'Hey, old Ferraris are kind of cool, maybe I'll get one. I have some time to kill.'

[@tomyangnet]

I have met guys who spent their whole lifetime admiring Ferraris dreaming of the day they would one day own one, and when the time came, I found out they never even sat in one or driven one!? It happens all the time, and I am often the guy trying to convince them or dissuade them from the purchase!

[@tomyangnet]

There are thousands of distractions for your money, especially in a city like NY, and thousands of people willing to take advantage of that!

[@Beldar77]

@@tomyangnet Count me as one of those guys, Tom! But I'm about to take the first step and sit in and drive my first vintage Ferrari. Hopefully it leads to a purchase, but if not it's all part of the process. By the way, I thoroughly enjoy your videos. You have an engaging delivery style...just a natural communicator! Keep up the good work!

[@tomyangnet]

@@Beldar77 I’m glad you like the videos! Good luck with your first drive and let me know how it turns out!

[@NoPrivateProperty]

car is not even worth restoring

[@tomyangnet]

Probably not, but I bet 20-30 hours of work would get a running a driving car. Unfortunately, the 6 figure buy in price scares most people away.

[@arts.4014]

Financially no; emotionally, yes.