Gun Myth | Push Pull

World champion shooter Rob Leatham and Top Shot winner Dustin Ellermann poke holes in the Push Pull myth.

[@rosscausing7039]

Best explanation of this I've ever heard. All this content with Rob is always helpful. Thank you and keep them coming.

[@kickboxingunderground]

I love the way you teach, giving a lot of info in a short amount of time, without any fluff or bs. Awesome!

[@kevinlamarr1424]

I met Rob in 1992 at the Bianchi cup in Jefferson City, Mo. I had no idea who he was. We talked for about 20 minutes and he told me to watch that kid named Doug because he’s really good. Thanks for introducing me to the sport,Rob!

[@mitchmorgan8427]

Nobody explains the fundamentals of shooting a hand gun better than Rob Leatham.

[@kentuckyjustice1408]

I think he's an articulate individual. I do wish he wasn't representing Springfield Armory though. On another note, look at his barrel rise, then watch a Jerry Miculek video. See what you think.

[@reachblowsdick7222]

@Mitch Morgan - Chris Sajnog explains the fundamentals a lot better, look him up.

[@thatguy.namedmitch]

Mitch Morgan - Rob is good, but I prefer Ron Avery as an instructor.

[@carl-ok9gn]

@@reachblowsdick7222 sajnog is a fucking moron.

[@carl-ok9gn]

keith sanderson is lightyears ahead of rob in not only skill but instructional capability. ron avery is dead.

[@jthompson2214]

Good to see Dustin around. I remember watching the season that he won Top Shot, he was impressive. I miss that show...

[@fauxchung3189]

Pistol philosophy is all over the damn place. Everyone has an opinion from caliber to stance and grip. You would thing that pros would all arrive at the same conclusion but they don’t. Im starting to suspect that nothing really matter and all it takes is practice and a butt load of rounds...

[@TheBluegoatman]

It's like watching a bunch of golf pros. None of them agree on anything.

[@carl-ok9gn]

you get better by not shooting a but load of rounds, you get better by shooting correctly a lot of times. keith sanderson, look him up, best pistol shooter alive. schools rob.

[@RohannvanRensburg]

I actually hear a lot of commonality -- being able to pull the trigger quickly without moving it is mostly what matters, as well as gripping high so recoil goes "back" and not "up". A lot of top guys say stance, etc doesn't really matter when you have these other things down.

[@jubjub905]

Its an art.

[@phdlifechannel3100]

Try all the combinations, invent several, accept the one that fits you. Just like playing basketball

[@shaka2608]

That was an excellent explanation, and demonstration Mr. Rob Leatham.

[@RangerCaptain11A]

the best explanation of grip starts with imagining your gun clamped in a vice, and pull the trigger - which direction of vice squeeze will resist the gun's movement - from the sides or from the front and back? you will realize the front and back will resist best (the terms push-pull describe the vice-grip). then add a forward body lean to enable you to return to the target and not be pushed away. at some point it all becomes a dynamic system whether you are standing still or moving.

[@jamiesloan5902]

Rob is the MAN. I love that he NEVER says... You MUST do THIS, and ONLY THIS. He's exactly right. There are multiple things taken from multiple contexts, that play a part in proper shooting technique. The only exception is, Rob said that you MUST be able to pull the trigger, without disturbing the sights. That's BY FAR the number one problem with 95% of shooters. Try this... Stand and aim at the target, and try to make perfect trigger pulls, while dry firing at that target. Imagine where your hits were. Pretty good right? Like a 2"-3" group. Then why can't you replicate that precision when shooting live rounds? You're doing SOMETHING to prepare yourself for the BANG, and that SOMETHING is disturbing the sight picture. That's really all there is to shooting. However, it's much easier said than done. The main two things that happen are... 1. You squeeze the gun slightly harder right before the shot breaks, which will usually make you miss low, left. Or... 2. You push forward on the gun, right before the shot breaks, which will usually make you miss low. Pull the trigger, as if the gun is empty. You'll be amazed at the results. EVERYBODY is a pro level shooter(dry fire practice), until you bring that loud, scary BANG into the equation.

[@pethello3845]

When Rob instructs, you listen and learn.

[@eenormus1688]

..and write it down as gospel!

[@diosdadoapias]

I use the Weaver stance. When I trend my 1911 with my right hand and let my left hand double grip, I am pulling my left hand with emphasis of force on the ring and pinky fingers while my right hand have some sort of push to compensate with the pulling effect of the left hand. This help in countering the recoil that will flip-up the the gun muzzle. This is the old school teaching I learned from the civilian force when I joined in it 30 years ago. It is still functional. The World champion uses the Isosceles stance which just double grip the firearm- no push and pull.

[@wizardofahhhs759]

That's how I learned on my 1911 and I find that for me it's necessary on almost all .45ACP handguns.

[@JBliehall]

The Weaver Stance is noted for "rotating " you off target when your gun recoils. The barrel not only goes "up" it also "rotates" your body CW if you are right handed and CCW if you are left handed. With an Isosceles stance your whole body recoils backwards but it does NOT rotate. Much easier to get back on target. You simply have to drop the muzzle................

[@MAYH3M0NE]

Its not often that a gun video blows my mind. You blew my mind.

[@ChipSpencer123]

Have seen this before, but saw more this time. Thanks Rob and SA

[@Thumpr110]

I love hearing Rob’s explanations.

[@wendydillard1]

Wow I was taught so differently. Of course it was by a DCJS instructor. My military GM hubby taught me long range riffle that I have placed 2nd in the 1000 yrd. at Academi in Moyock, NC. Totally different than pistol. For daily self protection an having a CCW I feel I should learn more an practice often. My hubby is also a small arms instructor but his way is just not comfortable for me. Thank you for all your videos they have helped me greatly.

[@j.m.youngquist419]

great tips , next time I go to the range I will apply them and see how it works

[@SweetTearOfBlood]

Dustin is such a good shooter, if he was a shooter, i wouldnt dare fighting him. Ellermann subscriber for years and proud.

[@rbrtck]

I just do what feels the most natural and secure on the gun, which results in something very similar. I start with pinching the gun pretty hard (just short of shaking) between the heels of my hands, taking up all of the space on the grip, and then my arms go where I need them, depending on my movement and positioning (possibly shooting around cover or concealment). If I'm just shooting paper or steel straight on, then my arms go almost but not quite straight out, as shown, and if I'm working on defensive shooting, then in certain situations I might pull my arms in to protect the gun, which results in something closer to a Weaver stance (although I'm not standing, I'm moving) since being closer, the gun needs to be placed more to the side to use the sights. Speaking of which, I do not line up the sights in the traditional manner when shooting defensively at short range. Instead I index on them with the gun held a bit lower than eye level in order to give me a clearer field of view, in addition to increasing my speed. This also allows me to comfortably hold my head higher without ducking to use the sights in the typical way; combined with focusing on the target rather than the sights, my situational awareness is maximized. Generally, I try to reduce overall muscle strain while keeping in firm control of the gun and its recoil. Like most people, I used to tense up and adopt certain fixed body postures, but I found that useless for actual fighting, and for that matter, for shooting in general. I started thinking about this while watching Jerry Miculek and how relaxed he looked compared to many of his competitors, and adopted this for all of the types of shooting I do. The less I have to fight the gun and my own body, the better I shoot and move, and the less I focus on the gun and sights, the faster I am able to see and respond in dynamic situations.

[@tomtucker8863]

Dustin is rolling his shoulders forward. In IPSC shooting that's a no no. Stand up straight, listen to Rob.

[@southernviking8644]

Modified Weaver for me , just feels normal. Do what you want , their your guns.

[@carl-ok9gn]

they're.

[@scrapguy6816]

Cool review.

[@hotrodray9884]

30 yrs ago it took me a couple years to figure this out by myself. Discovered MY best way (this way) and also that most of the 1911 mods were a waste of money. Eyes fading now but still most adequate!!

[@decespugliatorenucleare3780]

eyes fading is not a problem: go for center mass, and use noise more than sight to choose when it's time to stop shooting haha

[@showoffyoureverydaycarry4016]

Good distinction. Thanks.

[@shooterqqqq]

Push pull was used when the thumbs were positioned one over the other. You'll notice the fingers of the support hand are the only thing holding. When the thumbs forward grip is used, the entire hand can pinch or clamp the front of the pistol grip.

[@shooterqqqq]

The way I noticed it is, back then the thumbs were together and the only way you could have a firm grip with your support hand is to push into the gun since your the ends of your support fingers were doing all the work. Push with the firing hand and pull with the support and that captured the handgun. Today, we moved the support hand to clamp or as Rob said, pinch the firing hand and the gun with the thumb forward. Now the support hand is forward and the movement to pull back is lessened. Interesting enough, I don't know when the new grip became popular. I first noticed it among competitors.

[@doranjaffas9645]

Been shooting for only 3 years so not a pro. Good with my gun but this explanation really made sense to me.

[@barelyfree9427]

There are so many myths out there that are taught as "scripture" by trainers. I was taught the push pull but quickly gave up on it and made up my own. And I keep learning differences and trying to find that perfect shot method.

[@SandyRiverBlue]

God, I thought this was going to be about the terms Weapons Push and Weapon Pull in combat psychology. This drew my eyes straight away since there is so much data proving these combat reactions are pretty strong forces. That aside, I prefer to use the grip that's best for me and only try out other grips if I hit a situation-dependant distance/accuracy plateau. I tend to like the straight thumbs grip of late since I have some scar tissue in my left shoulder (from being young dumb, and full of it) and this allows me to use my thumbs as a level of sorts to adjust my positioning which tends to drift slightly left.

[@carlschnier4089]

Never could “grasp” the push/pull concept. I just get a good solid firm hold and isosceles arm hold so I’m comfortable with the firearm and it’s easy to shoot. Easy being smooth running, trigger control, reliable ammo and gun

[@matgdowski7578]

Interesting to see that Rob Leatham does a "mixture" of isosceles and Weaver together with his arms. So, not a true one or the other. Very interesting. However, I think everyone has their own method of what works best for them. The main thing is controlling the recoil/muzzle flip of the firearm to be able to have a faster, more accurate follow up shot. I'm sure all of the top shots in the world are similar in how they do it, but different. So, there isn't exactly a right or wrong way (well, there is, but I'm sure you know what I mean), but everyone has their own style. I like what Rob stated because that seems to follow more of what I do, so it would be more natural for me to try and modify mine a bit to try this out. Thanks for the video.

[@petezimmerman3270]

Exactly, everyone has their own ideas, similar but different. No one way is really better than another.

[@markjacobson1285]

if Rob is doing it don't question it because none of us are as good as he is

[@StonnieDennis]

Thank you!

[@lanceroberthough1275]

Shot Weaver for years. It was a lot of work to change. But we got there.

[@slickwilly6868]

Rob is like the Steven Spielberg of guns 😂🤣😆

[@Kenneth45]

I never thought of the isosceles as a push pull. When I do it I push with both. Now I know what you're thinking, how do you push when the fingers of the support hand is in front of the weapon? I don't, not with that part at least. I form my grip with my shooting hand, and then I fit the meaty part of the palm of my support hand in the exposed part of the grip. What this does is, the meaty part of the palm of my support hand is actually up against the tips of my fingers of my shooting hand. That's where I push. And for me it works great... Not saying anything against Mr. Leatham of course, he's a damn living legend. But just saying when I teach the isosceles stance with the modern grip, I don't ever mention anything about the push pull thing the weaver guys love to talk about.

[@TomRolfson]

You want to learn fast, you want to learn right? Follow Rob's advice... the guy puts it into such simple terms. (I have to admit I've stolen a lot of it for my own students and some have become VERY good competitors!)

[@RickyJr46]

Good demo!

[@JBliehall]

The Weaver Stance is noted for "rotating " you off target when your gun recoils. The barrel not only goes "up" it also "rotates" your body CW if you are right handed and CCW if you are left handed. With an Isosceles stance your whole body recoils backwards but it does NOT rotate. Much easier to get back on target. You simply have to drop the muzzle................

[@-nobody6272]

rock n roll dude!

[@hrfardan66]

I am right handed. I use a Weaver stance. I extend my right arm holding the firearm with both hands. I pull back with my right arm while pushing out with my left, easing off slightly with each until I have a steady platform. This works well for me, and for my qualification scores as well. I was taught this by a Florida Panhandle legend, Billy Blount. May he Rest In Peace. Bless him, I never did get to ask him how he could chew tobacco on one side of his mouth while chewing a doughnut on the other side.

[@JBliehall]

The Weaver Stance is noted for "rotating " you off target when your gun recoils. The barrel not only goes "up" it also "rotates" your body CW if you are right handed and CCW if you are left handed. With an Isosceles stance your whole body recoils backwards but it does NOT rotate. Much easier to get back on target. You simply have to drop the muzzle................

[@tjrocksw1911]

I've tried that push pull grip. That screwed up my shooting and all my shots low to the target. Took me another two range session to change back to get my original accuracy back.

[@RangerCaptain11A]

if you pull too hard with your firing hand, that causes your thumb to curl, making your shots low, and your fingers to curl, making your shots move towards the support side. learn to keep the firing hand fingers relaxed, and only use them as a hook to pull back against the push from your support hand. 30% pull 70% push.

[@johnpaulsasotona9083]

RangerCaptain11A you mean push from the strong hand, pull with the support hand right?

[@zakirali8721]

rob . sir.. ur thoughts actually make sense.

[@muffemod]

Boy put it on those plates :)

[@NDcompetitiveshooter]

Ego and dogmatic stubbornness does not tend to lead to being the best you can be. Keep an open mind, be flexible, listen, try some different things, and use critical thinking skills.

[@smileytheresa63]

Rob Good day! Any tips on how to overcome pushing as anticipation to recoil? like many shooters I am shooting low and left. thank you graciously

[@thechilledonion9313]

Forget the recoil. I'm working on it a lot at this moment. And, I figured out that when you shoot fast, you forget the recoil more than when you shoot slowly because you don't have time to think about the recoil. So, try to shoot 5 bullets one by one on a target then shoot 5 bullets as fast as you can (like 2-3 seconds in between). You'll see that your aiming will be better only because you just have time to mind your accuracy.

[@JohnnyBGoode-xb6cs]

I practice with lower power ammo, including 22 and have noticed a lot less recoil anticipation when I shoot full house rounds on larger calibers.

[@hughmongous2554]

I like to mix dummies with bullets (say: 5 dummies with 10 bullets) in a bag or pocket, so without looking, after mixing them, filling the mag, again of course without looking. Or have a range buddy do that for you. The point is to have some dummies randomly in your mag, so you really notice any anticipation movement once you hit a dummy. Really helps concentrating on keeping the gun still, because you look like an idiot flinching without reason ^^

[@paddypibblet846]

​@@hughmongous2554This is old outdated advice that doesn't work. If you see top shooters have a round that doesn't go off, you'll notice they "flinch", there's nothing wrong with recoil anticipation, it's part of the process of getting you back on target quickly. The problem is pre-ignition recoil. It's nearly impossible for the eye to see, but in slowmo you can tell if the movement is happening prior to the explosion or afterwards

[@b.chuchlucious5471]

Hi, my name is , we're here to today at the with Mr. of .

[@5ddenny]

I have used push pull method ever since I started shooting over thirty years ago. This new grip of pinching is terrible for carpal tunnel. My wrists have to be straight to shoot.

[@joehastings1]

The "pinch pull" method.?

[@bigtex5343]

East Texas dude!

[@carlhopkinson]

yea, except push pull works

[@twlttznr]

What caliber is he shooting?

[@brianmoore1164]

So he said we still use the push pull, but we don't say it that way anymore. That hardly makes it a myth and NOBODY ever said the push pull was all that mattered.

[@dicktracy826]

BIG ROB!!!!

[@jasonholloman657]

Could you possibly explain it as, imagine you are trying to crack your knuckles with your arms extended?

[@lmdetect]

nope. Not everyone cracks their knuckles, so he wouldn't want to assume that this would be a natural feeling for every person.

[@mjolnirswrath23]

It's like martial arts in that the achorn can only grow into an oak tree everyone has to find a method comfortable to them. Depending on body structure , weight , strength flexibility and experience. The idea is Ballance exhale squeeze breathing is key

[@Philmoscowitz]

I'm still fuzzy on this push-pull thing. Is this something that happens naturally or is it something people are doing intentionally?

[@paulm.6966]

Does this gentleman give any demonstrations on holding revolvers ?

[@paddypibblet846]

You're better off looking at Jerry Miculek for that.

[@sherab2078]

Point is, there is no single grip technique that would work for everyone. For example, let's tell Eric Grauffel (7 times worlds champion in a row) that the push-pull technique is crap. ;) Or he should not put his weak hand's index finger on the trigger guard. ;) For me personally, since I've started to shoot about 1,5 years ago, I'm still struggling to find a grip that would consistently work for me. I guess Eric's Grauffell push-pull is closest to the thing, but I'm still struggling. :/

[@paddypibblet846]

If you're still struggling maybe it's a sign that you should try other people's methods?

[@aqualust5016]

Tbh just shoot however you need to to hit the targets fast and accurate

[@bingbongabinga2954]

Your arm is now a gun stock?

[@hotrodray9884]

FIRST watch Robs video on trigger control, first learn that, ...then dry practice to see the best comfortable stance for you.

[@attybong]

eric grauffel uses push and pull .. i dont think he grip is wrong ..

[@jayloeffers8223]

i am getting a 5.25inch XDM 9mm pistol full range kit gun I cant wait to shoot it Rob Leatham

[@js3217]

So I guess you could argue based on the video that it's not exactly a myth.

[@davejan744]

Stance? What the hell kind of "STANCE" is one gonna have in a running gunfight?? Stance is for targets, lets get REAL here.

[@micaKTM1290]

They are being real, they are shooting at targets. A more likely scenario than a running gun fight. There are other places that will teach running gun fights.

[@shooterqqqq]

It's called training. If you can't stand in front of a target and shoot, you can't win in a gunfight.

[@tt9875]

Conducting an interview live on the range with shots being fired every few seconds most fucking annoying thing ever.

[@jawjww]

I love how they talk with hearing protection on

[@TConer-ft7no]

jawjww they're electronic. You can hear just fine and even amplified until the sounds reach certain decibals then the electronics blocks the sound.

[@petezimmerman3270]

Believe they have muffs with electronics to deaden the sound when shooting.