Big Animal Defense - .357 Mag VS 10mm VS .44 Mag in Revolvers - Underwood Hard Cast Ballistic Test

[@GunSam]

I have gotten a few comments about how a 10mm revolver makes no sense when 10mm is 'about capacity'. Fair enough, but that being said - this is a ballistic test and the terminal ballistics are what is important here, I just choose to run my revolver so I don't have to mess around with an unreliable semi auto pistol. This 4.0" S&W 610, despite being comparable in internal chamber/bore travel to about a 5.3" semi auto, is pretty much spot on with velocity numbers to the most popular 10mm pistol out there, the Glock 20 4.61" bbl, due to a little cylinder gap gas loss. If anyone wants to complain about my revolver not being high capacity like it's 'supposed to have', maybe consider that capacity is NOT what I test when I do these tests.

[@thestcroixkid]

@GunSam don't bother with the backward thinking...very likely they'll never get to use those rounds....44 is the recommended minimum for single carry, hot .357 or .41 Mag is the recommended minimum behind heavy rifle or shotgun, with .460 Rowland a do-able auto option combined with a longarm, 10mm and it's capacity are false security...dgmw...I love 10mm, I own 2 1911's, a Witness and had a revolver but sold it to a friend who lives in black bear country...perfect manstopper...but not for truly big bear, not for single carry at least...your test was fine, all in all solid work!

[@bigmedicine8042]

The 10 mm is a fine cartridge. It just needs a heavy gun to support it. The revolver is not a bad option. Good video.

[@mattspriggs5945]

@@GunSam I think your set up is really cool and I'm interested in getting one now. Revolvers still have advantages and I find it odd that people feel that shot placement is so important when discussing how a 9mm is superior to 40 s&w or 45 ACP, but those very folks skip over the issue of shot placement when hating on revolvers...call me weird!

[@ryangrey3578]

10mm revolver is like a .357 mag that you can use good moon clips with

[@GunSam]

@@mattspriggs5945 The same people will say that the 9mm is just as effective as the .45 ACP because in a human or animal, you can't tell the difference in the size of the entrance holes. Dumbest argument I have ever heard as skin stretches. Skin don't care about less than 1/10th of an inch difference in a poked hole, but that doesn't mean that the momentum of the .45 ACP doesn't deliver a better straight line of damage in inner parts of the body that matter more than skin holes.

[@franzputsch254]

Some people forget just how powerful the .357 Magnum is. I live in Griz country and feel well strapped with a .357.

[@tristantimothy1004]

Franz, and you are if you can face shoot em. DOSENT take a bazooka to stop a grizzly if brain hit. We had a disaster this summer w a 375. The tourist brought his but his misinformation host told him the smallest bear stopping caliber was a 44. Poor schmuck went fishing alone w only bear spray. His shredded body was found & the spray can was empty. His host is an idiot. Contrary to popular myth a bears skull is NOT bulletproof & they do NOT bounce regular bullets off of them. Weve had other tourists kill Grizzlies w pocket 380s by shooting them up close in the face or the ear. AK natives regularly kill polar bears w 22 L.R. rifles by shooting them in the FACE or ear. The " magic triangle", across the eyes down to the nose is a brain hit.

[@tristantimothy1004]

Franz, If you can point shoot ( WONT have time to aim) & hit em in the FACE up close that's more than enough w proper bear loads. We had a F&G officer who was attacked many times & his only carry was a 40 S&W. using regular FMJ s. The newer hot bear loads didn't exist yet. He waited til they were too close to miss & blew their brains out. In the FACE where they're brains at. He retired unscathed. Was tumbled over a few times by the bears inertia but never mauled. He laughed at us big bore guys. Called us pusseys. He knew magnum handguns were not enough gun to stop a bear in full attack mode. Takes a 458 or bigger rifle to do that. ( Usually, I stopped a charging Grizzlies with a 243 point blank w only an 80 grain blitz round. Through a front rib & the lil pill exploded in its heart dropping it instantly. It did knock me for a backwards flip up, over a tussock where I jacked another round into the chamber in midair hoping for that last, instantly fatal eye/ brain shot & landed on my feet 6 feet away but he was down & never got up again. Lil griz, only a 5 footer. Probably away from its mother it's 1st year.) But I account most of that to an act of God. If you can keep your cool & face shoot em up close you'll be fine. Contrary to popular myth a bears skull is NOT bulletproof & they don't bounce bullets off of them. We have recorded grizzly kills done w a 380 up close. Face/ ear shots. Instant death.

[@molecularalchemy7798]

I don't know why sam doesn't have a million subs. Definitely one of the best channels on YT for serious gun folx

[@tristantimothy1004]

Molecular, Ya! Share his channel w your gun friends & help his channel grow.

[@molecularalchemy7798]

@El_Peto no mention if the usage of "folx" here? You fellas are slipping

[@OLMmedic]

So true. Great channel

[@tristantimothy1004]

El Peto, Common in today's world of unlimited information overloads. Flash & dazzle over rides good hard well presented facts & solidity. Personally, I prefer the latter. Cotton candy is great at first but give me a good solid dinner of steak & potatoes & I'm a happy camper.

[@squatchwatch5237]

​@tristantimothy1004 you and me both. My "entertainment " is learning like these test that Sam does.

[@mattspriggs5945]

Here in W. Montana, 10mm has surpassed nearly every cartridge in terms of sales - at least local shops. I PREFER a 45 Auto, but its pretty hard to argue with the results shown here as well as nearly every guide I know here and in Alaska carrying a G20 - I like mine as well. The revolver in 10mm is a really cool setup - awesome content as always, Sam!

[@exothermal.sprocket]

.45 Colt and big bore cartridges have a heritage and reputation of anchoring dangerous game, cavalry horses, and perps from way back. It's just interesting how 10mm is somehow gained a reputation as being a viable DG option in DG country. I wouldn't trust it, if given a choice over big bore revolver cartridges with big flat-nose HC projectile designs.

[@thecocooreo]

Same up here in North Idaho 10mm is king!

[@thestcroixkid]

@mattspriggs5945 your .45 auto can easily exceed the 10mm...+p, .450 smc and Rowland can push 250+grain hardcast well beyond what hot 10mm can...people need to remember, guides are in parties of at least two big game rifles...they're not walking around with just a G20...people forget this...44 mag is the minimum recommended single carry...a quick look on the game and fish website will make that clear...

[@Yetified_Mayhem]

10mm auto on a chest rig is the biggest, yet still comfortable, thing I can carry with my pack and rifle against these vertical Idahoan mountains.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

People cry about recoil, weight, blast, ammo capacity, everything under the sun to validate semi-auto platform and stubby cartridge status. None of that matters when the big brown with 4 inch claws and bench vise jaws is coming at you 35 mph mowing down saplings.

[@peternorton5648]

I caught that Paul Harrell reference with the high tech fleece backstop. 👍 RIP Paul. Overall a great comparison and a good video. Thanks Sam

[@MSimpy-js4db]

Great video Sam! One of your best ‘large, dangerous animal’ videos so far. That 10mm performed much better than anticipated!!

[@tristantimothy1004]

Msimpy, I think of my 10mm as a pregnant 357. Same round, just fatter & a tad more punch.

[@sirdanoman]

I love flat nose hard cast...in any caliber! Over penetration is over emphasized while an undervalued trait is having something that just plows through all the shit. Consistently. Keep 'em coming! You have one of the top channels in this category, IMHO.

[@PatriotPaulUSA]

Yes, but there is a huge amount of folks that do not really understand how important the actual tissue damage is. Its not something that most folks understand well that is much, much, greater with Hollowpoints or Very High speed rifle cartridges. Law enforcement agencies all carry HP in their pistols for good reason. You would have to have a multitude of hits on target with a smaller solid in a pistol round. Much more than U would have with a good HP to stop a perpetrator or animal with a good Hollowpoint expanded round that had good penetration. Remember there is only a few things that can stop an enraged or drug fueled attacker and its not 1 or 2 rounds of solid hardpoints. Its the massive blood loss and drop in blood pressure that stops a perp in its tracks. A few straight thru shots wont accomplish that. You better have an entire mag dump into a bad guy or animal to stop them in their tracks. It has to be so many shots to be able to cause the massive tissue damage and huge blood loss that a smaller number of hollowpoints can do. If you have ever butchered a deer shot by a very high powered rifle, its very similar effect to a much slower pistol round damage of a couple HP rounds. Its called hydrostatic Shock in those rifle rounds(what happens to the tissue. I know I would Not rely on any solid pistol rounds for actual defense of my life in a pistol. Yes, maybe in a 44 Mag. But I would still rather have a good tested HP round. I wouldn't consider it at anything less than 1400fps imho. I say this as an actual lead bullet caster. I have experimented with many types of lead hardness and bullet shapes. Yes, Hard cast has its use in hunting, and but I would not shoot it in anything less than a 44Mag if I needed near instant stoppage of an animal or perpetrator, personally. I don't even buy its use case in 380 although it can penetrate more its damage so so low I don't think its worth it over a Good HP and there are a few good one even in 380.

[@876mpr]

The .44 magnum had more than ample penetration and created by far the largest wound channel. Easy winner.

[@Bowfella]

The 44 mag also has only 5 rounds and good luck with followup shots. Better penetration, 10+ rounds, and easier followup shots.

[@876mpr]

@@Bowfella There’s a lot more to performance on game than just penetration. How much damage the bullet does along the way is more important. I’d definitely prefer a 4” 629. It has a little more heft and an extra round. No reason not to learn to master the superior round unless you have physical limitations.

[@Bowfella]

@@876mpr If you're a great shot with a .44 mag revolver you'll be an even better one with a 10mm glock. Less recoil, more rounds, just common sense

[@876mpr]

@@Bowfella No, just a cop out. Put the first round where it needs to go and capacity is a moot point. The only thing that’s changed over the years is perception.

[@Bowfella]

@@876mpr Lmfao ok there Dirty Harry. No bear will ever get the jump on you I guess because you'll always get him between the eyes. With your argument I guess .22LR is superior to .44mag, because "You just gotta hit them right on the first shot" right?

[@Narsuitus]

For big animal defense, I rely on 180 or 200 grain flat-nose hard-cast lead in a 6-inch Smith & Wesson 357 magnum revolver.

[@rickmanley767]

Me too

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Buffalo Bore and Grizzly offer some real hammers.

[@MTB_Pathfinder]

In 8 shot cylinder )

[@tristantimothy1004]

Personally I carry the 10. Consider it to be a pregnant 357. In a chest holster that Stays on you it's hard to beat. Rifles tend to get laid down & once out of instant reach they might as well be on the moon.

[@Narsuitus]

@@tristantimothy1004 I have been shooting 9mm and 45acp for decades. Love them both. I have been shooting 357 magnum longer than 9mm and 45acp. If I were forced to start over today and had to limit myself to only one pistol caliber, I would pick the 10mm (provided I had a dependable source of 10mm ammo).

[@johnnymccann5607]

I'm disabled but not helpless. I'm slow and have to rest frequently. when i feel like fishing and im in known bear and wild hog areas I'll have my compact 3in 44mag with gc 255gr hc- fp loaded maximum. because i might not get but one shot . if I'm going I'm going large or i ain't going. papa wishing you well 😊

[@exothermal.sprocket]

As I suspected, Underwood's 180 .357mag load is about 135 fps down on the equivalent Buffalo Bore load in 4-inch barrel. Underwood basically meets max potential in 10mm. They do not in the rimmed magnums. Max potential for .357 and .44 would require Buffalo Bore.

[@dmw3086]

And even though underwood’s 357 mag isn’t loaded the hottest it still beat their own 10mm which they do load probably better than anyone

[@pecosjane]

Those LFN revolver bullets DO tend to penetrate! I remember the 230 grain .38 Special went all the way through 2 gel blocks. LFN hard cast for the win. Nice comparison; thank you for the comments on recoil management vs. actually getting the firearm on target.

[@Gieszkanne]

I think it was 220gr.

[@Gieszkanne]

@@pecosjane Its ok but I think he used 220gr bullets. I rewatched it he used a 213gr bullet.

[@BUZZKILLJRJR]

I know many people including my grandfather my uncles my father all carrying 357 magnum for a defensive pistol in the woods, my uncle used to hunt bears with a 357 Magnum with a scope on it and there is grizzly bear in this area where I live absolutely and cougars and black bear and moose and everything else .357 Magnum ain't no slouch.

[@fatjeezussouthtexasoutdoor5244]

Love me some 10mm , but I'm a sucker for 357.... In a full size revolver (5"+) is where it really shines.

[@bigjj974]

This was a good fair test. When it comes to dangerous game in the U.S. you are basically comparing apples to oranges to bananas all of them are sweet. All will work with the right shot placement. That being said for me personally I would always go with the 44mag. Just me. Thank you for the video.

[@Saintbow]

I've seen a few new channels start to copy Sam's method when it comes to gel block testing. You know your good when folks are copying you. Great video on the ex-wife defense calibers!

[@brandiwynter]

Interesting video, I love seeing the hardcast bullets being tested. I'd feel pretty comfortable carrying any of the three. Well done 👍.

[@David-h7o7j]

I have been subscribed and watching your channel for at least a couple years, and have to say this is one of my favorite videos you have done, as these calibers and loads apply to my life. I am in Montana and in the woods a lot. I have had 2 grizzly encounters, a black bear encounter and a mountain loin encounter. Fortunately, no shots were fired on any of the encounters. I have been shooting and hand loading for 10MM and .44 mag for over 35 years. I never felt a need for a .357, but about 8 years ago I got into the .357 Mag. only because I saw a TRR8 in the gun store and thought it was very cool looking. Started loading 180 XTP's and 175 grain Keith hardcasts for that with excellent results. Recently picked up some 190 grain hardcasts from GT bullets that hit very hard and are also very accurate. One thing I have come to love about the .357 is it is so versatile with bullet sectional densities for various situations. A few years ago I picked up a 686 plus and it has hands down become my favorite revolver to shoot. I typically burn through about 150 rounds every weekend, between calibers. I love the 10MM and a 1006 was my first auto loader in 1989. I do think the 10MM is the most versatile cartridge in an auto loader and my G20 is one of my IWB EDC's on occasion. As far as the .44 Mag, a Ruger Redhawk was my first handgun when I turned 18 and started reading Elmer Keith, and I have never looked back with regards to the .44 Mag. Bought a 629 4" back in the early 90's and that has been my mainstay for over 30 years now. I love that 250 grain Keith bullet. It hits hard and performs very well even with the light "Skeeter" loads. All the big game and dangerous game hunters for the past 100 plus years have always preached that one need a bullet with sectional density of at least .200 So these bullets in your video all hit that criteria. Most 10 MM bullets are usually hard to find above 200 grain, even for hand loading, so you doing this video was nice to see this option.

[@Matersoup]

Another great comparison video, Gun Sam! Thank you.

[@terrybarnes0712]

Great Content as always Sam

[@GunSam]

Thank you

[@CyborgRising]

So many videos and so good. Thanks Sam!

[@PonceDillion]

Not sure if it’s intentional but in Alaska we often use the term “Big Animal” in lieu of “Bear.” Cool test, as always.

[@challanboggs4964]

It's odd how different mediums react differently with bullets. I remember when the 357 was the only round that went through all the boards that were taped up in a past video. Ballistics are a crazy science.

[@originallonewolf6643]

Excellent break down

[@Scout66]

I have them all. Love them all. Thanks to your work, I now know I can trust them all.

[@bobcatforever3485]

GS. Another great heavy hitter comparison. Thanks for sharing and take care.

[@GunSam]

Thank you. Take care.

[@timt8029]

All 3 are potent calibers. I love the hard cast options. I will say though that there are .44 magnum loads that will penetrate much more than this. The 220 gr 10mm loads is probably the best load for caliber but in a model 69, the HSM 305 gr hard cast bear load is pretty wicked. Switch to the Redhawk and the 340gr +p+ loads are crazy. Especially the buffalo bore. Love your tests Sam.

[@Matt-to3jo]

As usual, fantastic video. Id love to see the HSM Bear Load on your channel.

[@joeblo1319]

I second this. Or ideally a 3 way with the underwood, hsm, and buffalo bore in .357!!

[@joeblo1319]

All in 180 gr hard cast. Ill send you a box of hsm because I switched to Underwood.

[@thomastune776]

Awsome demo /comparison of game stoppers👍

[@Paladin1873]

I ran some BB 220 grain 10mm through my Glock 20 a few years back and it only averaged 1152 fps, so maybe they've upped the load since then. Even their 200 grain pill only averaged 1172 fps until I stuck a 6" barrel in the pistol. Then it jumped to 1256 fps.

[@tristantimothy1004]

Paladin, Did adding the longer bbl cause any issues?? Failure to feed or jamming? I've got an XDM-E 4.5 & SERIOUSLY thinking of going 2 inches longer but have heard that causes back pressure/ cycling issues causing failure to feeds, Is that true?? I got a G20 gen 5 & it HATES hot bear ammo. 2-5 FTFs per mag. The Glock rep said like all Glocks they're built to NATO standards. Bear ammo is a lot hotter. Unit works great EXCEPT w bear ammos. Here in Alaska the gen 4s w full case support bbls & upgraded 22-24 lb recoil springs are proving very reliable. You cannot upgrade the Gen 5 springs & Glock says they have no intention of making stronger springs for them. Which they need for the hotter loads. What gen is your unit?

[@Paladin1873]

@@tristantimothy1004 The Glock I tested the ammo in is a G20SF that I purchased in 2011, but it has no Gen markings on it. I had no problems with the longer barrel installed and I did not replace the recoil spring. BB is very expensive ammo so I rarely shoot it. I've since purchased a Glock 40 and put the 4.61" barrel back in the G20. Honestly, I don't think you need hot loads or expanding bullets to deal with any nonhuman predator. What you do need are well-constructed hard solid bullets (preferably flat tipped), good bullet placement, and deep penetration, especially when dealing with bruins. Brain shots seem to work best here in Montana, so I presume this is just as true in Alaska. I've been told your bears are bigger, but ours our meaner. Care to swap? P.S. What NATO standard was the Glock rep talking about? I'm unaware of the 10mm having been adopted by NATO.

[@tristantimothy1004]

Paladin, your right about the flat tipped slugs being exceptional. I have to load my own because $60 for 20 B.B.s is just ridiculous. I'm not exactly sure when the gen 5s started coming out but pretty sure it was after 2011. Up here the rebuilt gen 4s rule in the Glock community & are very dependable w the hot loads. Standard rebuild is a KKM bbl, 22-24 lb recoil springs & usually a better trigger. IDK about the " NATO" 10mm specs but that's what the smart ass punk Glock rep said. THE 2 most popular 10mm's up here in AK is the XDM-E Because once they fixed their trigger safety issue they're unbeatable. They shoot EVERYTHING well. Only objections I've heard is the grip safety but they're easy to eliminate. The other is the rebuilt gen 4s. The big concern here is if a bear has one arm in its mouth getting a good solid, full hand grip w the grip safety may not be possible when the SHTF. I worked w our F&G dept for 25 years & got to read the bear attack stats & Montana's Grizzlies ARE more aggressive. And no, don't want to trade. Alaska's got new problems. The polar bears are moving south & interbreeding w the Grizzlies & recently in Canada a Polar/ black bear hybrid was found & all the hybrids have the Polars aggression. GREAT! Just what nobody needs. Meaner/ bigger bears. The Polars have learned to fish from the Grizzlies and being aquatic bears w fishhook claws they're better at it & spreading fast..Nature ALWAYS adapts. Up here, most folks practice w what they're using in the field. Underwoods are cheaper than the B.B.s but just as effective. Similar ballistics across the board but reloading is HUGE because Alaska's an expensive place to live anyway & most of us can't afford a steady diet of B.B.s. I'm loading 200 grain Berry's slugs @ 1250 fps & they, while not being Hardcasts, work just as well. Some tiny nose deformation in my tests but not enough to matter much. Am pushing the 180 up to just under 1300 fps but that's peaked out. Chest holsters rule up here. I had to drill out the stupid rivets on mine & put washers between the halves for a ONE handed pull. Found better ones that are adjustable & cheaper. $160 for a holster that requires BOTH hands to pull it is just stupid. I KNOW those designers have never been bear attacked. On Alaska Ballistics & Chukes outdoor channels they run longer bbls. I forget which channel I saw it on but the author said the longer bbls create more back pressure & he didn't recommend anything over 4.5 inches but I've seen others w no problems. I'm thinking the problem guy didn't install stronger springs. So far, other than the XDMs the other brands ARE having problems too w the hot loads. The ONLY reason I got the gen 5 is because I couldn't find any standoff devices for my XDM-E. I've been bear attacked 5 times, 3 in my face w the muzzle shoved hard into the bears chest. That's why I'm looking for the longer bbl in case it happens again. To keep the slide from being pushed back out of battery. Carried a full sized 44 Redhawk for decades but they get heavy & have limited rounds. The 10mm will punch deep enough & rapid fire WAY faster than any revolver. The XDM-E is THE most natural point shooters I ever had & when the SHTF there's no time to aim. Damn bears are FAST & NO Bushman is ever going to carry spray. One has 1-3 seconds usually in a close attack if they're lucky. Thanks for your feedback. Just convinces me more the guy who had problems with the longer bbls DIDNT have the appropriate recoil springs.

[@Paladin1873]

@@tristantimothy1004 I've seen Griz near my corral and house, but none of us have ever been attacked. Some hunters and hikers in the area have had fatal and nonfatal encounters, but I've never met anyone in MT whose had as many close encounters as you. I've read about crossbreeding but it was always reported as some sort of anomaly because Polar Bears are supposed to be coastal dwellers. I suspect Hollywood will eventually introduce a super bear as a follow-on to their cocaine bear movie. I follow Elmer Keith's advice about using heavy-for-caliber bullets, so 200 and 220 grain are about all I shoot in 10mm. I had an XDE in 45, but sold it to a friend because the grip poorly fit my hand. I had my G20 frame completely reworked so it would no longer feel like a 2x4 (it now feels like a rounded 2x4). I've owned about every kind of 10mm there is except a Sig. The long slide G40 is my current favorite, though I had to Bubba the frame a bit. Recently some chap had his Glock jam twice on him during a bear attack, but he survived the mauling and the sow did not. I'm not convinced a standoff device will prevent this from happening. If 600+ pounds of hair and muscle are on top of you, any slide contact with the beast or lack of room for empty case ejection can lead to a malfunction. There's no perfect solution to the problem, only intelligent alternatives.

[@tristantimothy1004]

Paladin. I had a bear bait station only 1/4 mile from our cabin. 25 years I ran it. Pulled an old bushman's trick initially. Dragged a bacon grease soaked burlap sack behind the wheeler for miles in all directions I could take the wheeler & they all led back to the bait bbl. Bears nose is 10X better than a bloodhounds & once they found the bbl they start coming every day. Few years of that & you have multi generations returning year after year. That focused a LOT of bears into our area. Contacts were inevitable. Had 1000s of contacts over the years. Only 5 attacks. That's not bad at all. Once bears find a food source they keep returning for the easy meal. Figuring each bear has a 20-50 square mile home turf & they all focus in one spot daily. I saw more bears in a year than most folks do in a lifetime. Having them follow me home from the stand was pretty regular. We had 13 regular Grizzlies living in our immediate area. Named em all. I spent 1000s of hours up in that stand w 3 old style video cams. Have footage no man had ever seen or videoed before Loved my bears & they tolerated me. Only shot the 2 grizzlies that attacked me. One was moose wounded with a broken jaw & his fangs had been kicked out & the other was a very young one probably away from its mom for its 1st year solo. Surprise encounter up close & sudden. It went into immediate attack mode. Too young & stupid to know any better. Hated killing that one but it was him or me & we had lots of bears. Just one me. It all happened so damned fast there wasn't much time to think about it. Or any other options. Sadly. He was a newbie to our area out trying to to claim new turf. Ended badly. Bigger established bears would have probably killed him anyway in territory disputes. Sorry I had to. Our regular bears were so used to us we all just kinda ignored each other. Even the dogs quit barking when the regulars passed through our yard. One sow would bring her cubs & sleep & sun themselves up close & non ever showed any aggression. Same sow would bring her cubs under my stand & they'ed all sleep together. I probably could have gone down the stand & walked between them going home but my name's not Tredwell & I'm not stupid. Those were some long nights up in that stand. I learned from observation how bears act when meeting head on, on the trails. If they don't want an unnecessary fight they'd both drop the shoulder closest to the other & turn their heads away NOT looking each other in the eye.( Which in bear, is a direct challenge) and just walk past each other. I used that trick too w our regulars & it worked. Learned to NOT look directly into their eyes but rather focus on their nose & "notice" their eyes sorta sideways. They're smart & knew I wasn't going to be hostile so they weren't. Amazing creatures. I videoed their behaviors & sent copy's to our F&G dept & they used those DVDs to teach their newbies how to act in bear encounters & how to read their body languages. Bears will tell you by body language where their heads at. Stiff legged, ears back, direct look into eyes is bad. Loose walking, dropped closest shoulder & looking slightly away is " Pass on by." Most folks in a bear encounter look directly into a bears eyes & that triggers a fight reaction. They can sell fear too & that doesn't help. Quick actions & tensing up means your getting ready for a fight to them. Stay cool, be cool & don't challenge them & things go well. UNLESS it's a predatory bear & then, SHOOT EM IN THE FACE where they're brains at. Phuc damned spray. That's for idiots who just want to piss off an angry bear more. Or piss off a bluffing bear. Except for blackies. They are natural MANEATERS & once they're as tall as you standing your on their menu. If they run away, usually they're just looking for a better position to ambush you if they think they can succeed..Damn blackies scare me. Grizzlies don't 99% of the time. But, bears all have one constant. UNpredictability. I'm sure in many of my encounters there was Divine intervention involved. Just not my day to die. Yet. 75 years & still going strong. God isn't done w me yet. Still stuck on this planet a bit longer. Bears & all. 😁 Finally got to town today. Saw the Glock expert & sold my gen 5. He said they're built for SAMMI specs & were never designed for Buffalo bore or Underwood loads. Said he could TRY putting a KKM bbl on mine but he'd have to round/ polish the ramp & all around the chamber opening & even then it was 50/50. Said he'd heard my story many times & the FTFs were common around the 5-6 shots mark. Said most folks don't shoot but a few due to the costs & it fails them in the field. Takes a complete rebuild just like the gen 4s & there were no stronger springs he knew of yet for the gen 5s. That's Glock is now sitting in the gun store for sale as a used unit. Sticking to my XDM-E which I know ALWAYS works no matter what I feed it. But, to NEVER exceed the Underwood velocities per slug weight. They are beyond SAMMI specs already. He laughed when I told him I just saw the 10mm as a pregnant 357. They're working up here. More & more everyday. With the poor salmon runs & the wolves competition for non fish protein the bears are getting more stressed & aggressive than normal. Plus they're in hyper phage. Late fall & not yet enough fat for our long 9 month winters has them " touchy".more likely to attack anything that moves including humans that they normally wouldn't.

[@toddmelton655]

Sam, love your channel. Amazing videos, and great review. I actually bought my M69 because of the large spectrum of low power-hi power 44spl and 44 mag. The 44 is my EDC conceal carry in a Kydex IWB. From the hill to the hood there is an ammo selection for you.

[@charlesphillips5906]

Would love to see the 357 hard cast tested in a 2 inch barrel. I used to carry that load in my SP101 when hunting in Colorado.

[@Lateralus1007]

He has an old episode where his 180 grain 357 Buffalo bore hard cast gets over 600 foot lbs from A snub

[@joeblo1319]

You read my mind with this review. Thank you.

[@JeffreyCotle]

Hi gun Sam. This is THE BEST video ever. Now your talking my reason for carrying my ruger super Blackhawk hunter 44mag. . And my ruger blackhawk 357 mag. I carry my handloaded hardcast in each. My experience with each. Dead deer, no bullet found. I always carried my rugers when i lived in Alaska. Going without will eventually get you eaten. Or stomped by a moose .

[@KaiTakApproach]

I have a serious problem with black bear where I fish. There has been a fatal attack there, and they get pretty big feeding on dumpsters, garbage and a lot of handouts from morons. I went with .357 for my woods gun for several reasons, knowing it was a compromise but feeling it was worth the tradeoff. I am still considering a 10mm semi, however, as the heavier bullet may do better against bone. The problem is, for various reasons I would be limited to a compact doublestack and I don't shoot compact doublestacks well at all. Thank you for making this video. Unfortunately for me there are a lot of tradeoffs any way I slice it, but I had a suspicion that .44 Fuddlore is biased towards hunting and seeing the penetration almost exactly the same on both .357 and .44 lends some creedence to that suspicion. There are some fine differences between shooting to kill and shooting to deter an attack, and if I can get more rounds in faster and more accurately with the same penetration, then .357 does seem to have merit.

[@LogisticallyMisrepresented]

Nice test, Sam. Squared off bullet profile makes a distinction in meat performance vs a rounded shoulder projectile.

[@hillbillyscholar8126]

Interesting results. I think the .44 Magnum would be more manageable in a larger frame model like the 629. It is still light enough in the four inch version that it does not feel like a boat anchor. I like all three cartridges so it's all a win for me. 🦌🐻💥☠💯

[@boedude8496]

i'm pretty sure nobody doubts the ability of a 44 in any weight 200gr and above to penetrate a bear noggin, and not too many doubt the 357 and 10 at close range. the main issue is being familiar enough with the 44 to control the effects of recoil, especially out of a shorter and lighter handgun. not so much a problem with the heavier 7½ + lengths

[@DanTheWolfman]

NICE Test & Shooting like my Winter Wolfman Meat & Bone Tests 6 layer & double MDF w my .357 tests! IMO .40/10mm typical fmj Flat Point is fine will go 31-32" Organic Gel which is likely 40-42" Clear Ballistics. Rather get off 2-3 then one .44 mag

[@mcburcke]

A lot of Alaska hunting guides carry the 10mm with hard cast lead, so it must probably be reliable for that.

[@ramseycattn5941]

One thought is that the .357 and 10mm are running for all intents and purposes the heaviest bullet available in that caliber. These penetration tests usually come down to sectional density, as the velocities are within a couple hundred fps. Running a 300+ gr hard cast .44 might give you a better sense of what the caliber is capable of. Keep up the great videos, Sam!

[@GunSam]

300 gr also take the unbearable recoil to - not enjoying shooting anymore, but I guess bruised hand VS missing head is an okay trade off if we were truly talking great bears. I think .357 Mag and 10mm are like mini vans - they usually get you where you need to go, but .44 Mag is like a super charged sports car. Might give you more power, but it's not comfortable along the ride.

[@joshuatreat8106]

Nice catch at 22:10

[@Lanzerath1244]

I'm the one who is laughing now. Ha ha. Excellent retort.

[@Paladin1873]

Have you considered getting a Model 29 or 629 for your 44 demos? The extra mass is helpful and it's no bigger than your 10mm.

[@tahertz8544]

The Springfield 10mm eats up all the hard cast reliably I have a 3.8 & I seen it a many times on the interwebs also. If you got the 3.8 inch xde you would think it was awesome and you would carry it.

[@danoneill2846]

Heavy Metal

[@garysarratt1]

“It’s a one way ticket to midnight”

[@garrettschienschang7898]

New edc ammo discovered. Nothing could possibly go wrong if I start carrying a 255 grain hardcast everywhere.

[@carloparisi9945]

Hi Sam, as you said yourself, the .357 proved more accurate, not just because of the greater number of hits, the clusters were also tighter. Back in the day, Geco used to advertise a metal piercing load for the .38 and for the .357, I'd be interested to see these loads compared to the 10mm and .44 you used today.

[@blacklight6200]

Maybe do this same test with the Xtreme penetrators? I'd really like to see this test with 357sig as well.

[@duaneridings6591]

great video Sam

[@jonclark8155]

I honestly didn’t know they made a 180 g in 357 magnum. Down here in the south I’ve seen 170 in federal fusion 357 magnum. Good video Sam be well my friend.

[@dugie5246]

Man, I love your videos. Sooo much information. And your demonstration is spit on. The title is big game ammo which could be more than bears Like moose, mountain lions, Russian hogs,etc. Biggest issue trying to decide is 44mag for energy dispersion with 6 rounds or 10mm with little less energy but more rounds. As we all know when you shoot large animals you may or may not hit bones, vitals or in self defense spinal cord (which usually stops threat immediately). And, are you going to have time to get off more than 6 shots from 10mm or would 44mag have been better choice? You really have to practice drawing and hitting your target within few seconds. May not even get off more than 2 shots of any caliber. A 9MM hitting brain stem would probably drop big game instantly where as dumping 2 mags of 10mm might be last thing you do. Here in Virginia mountains, I've run across numerous bears over the years and most haul ass when they realized you're around. Its the mama bear that you are between her and her babies that causes concern. And then comes the weight consideration with 44mag and ammo. No clear winner. You're good with what ever firearm you are good with. Better than throwing rocks. 👍🇺🇲

[@tedcollins4684]

Good test. Thanks! .357 for me, 6 vs 5 might make the difference. Nice shootin'

[@BrianG-om4xy]

Good video. I would trust any of these rounds and calibers to protect myself against a charging grizzly or black bear.

[@EricTheBody]

I remember you did a test with 130 grain 38 special fmj flat nose and it sailed right through the gel. Could the secret be low velocity/high bullet weight/flat point? Would quicker follow up shots be more important than high power? Anyway, great test.

[@JamesMichael333]

Really interesting test

[@frankbrowning328]

The 357 and 10mm are loaded hot while the 44 mag is loaded very light. You can easily push this bullet a couple hundred feet per second+ faster or jump up in weight to well over 300 grains and more than 1200 fps. Or even a 340 gr +P load from Buffalo Bore

[@GunSam]

That's very difficult to do in this 4.25" barrel.

[@frankbrowning328]

@@GunSamBuffalo Bore has a 44 mag 240 gr "deer grenade" SWC HP bullet out of a 4'' barrel at 1466 fps. In the +P+ category they have a 340 gr bullet at 1401 out of a 5.5'' Redhawk. They have a 255 gr 44 Special at 1044 fps out of a 6'' barrel. That's a lot less pressure than the 44 Mag. I've clocked the Buffalo Bore 44 Special 255 gr from the 4'' barrel of my 629 at 975 fps and again it's a 44 Special. That being said I think the 255 gr bullet by Underwood used in the test is really on the light side for a 44 magnum intended for bear defense, I'm sur it would get the job done but it could be run faster providing more penetration.

[@imeprezime1285]

​@@frankbrowning328 That's for a bear shooting at other bear

[@frankbrowning328]

@@imeprezime1285 Ha ha ha! That was good!

[@bigmedicine8042]

I have just chronographed some 240 grain hollow points out of 629 6" at 1500 fps average. I think these would suffice well on a big bear. Other observations may very.

[@MontanaWelldigger]

May not be the best bullet design for large bears. Penetration is key, not expansion.

[@Patrick-xd8jv]

I would rather use a 300+ grain wfp or 300 xtp mag bullet

[@c.miller3802]

The 10mm is stealing the show in big game hunting and protection. Its recoil is manageable and its results are proven . A semi auto 10mm is a wicked tool in the woods.

[@timt8029]

Wow, I didnt know there was a 255gr .44 magnum. I didnt see it on their website.

[@watchmestress4182]

It seems to me you can't assume you will have more than 1-3 shots before you are Bear Food. Given that all 3 calibers seem equivalent assuming hit something vital. You almost certainly won't get to your 8th round if the first 7 miss.

[@sparky_-mf2cs]

Excellent ballistics with the 10mm but without a crimp on the bullet idk if id trust my life to it in a revolver.

[@dragonsamus]

Keep up the great work!

[@ultrafuel2559]

I'd like to see double-tap's 180 grain 357 Sig (I'll send them if you'll test them). Great sectional density. In this test, I think is the lower velocity plays a role in the 10mm deeper penetration.

[@Tritamer]

Good test!

[@timg7627]

The entire point of using 10mm for brown bear defense is having more than double the rounds of a revolver and being able to make quick follow up shots. Doing a test with sub 20 yard moving target while getting multiple hits is far more relevant for dangerous game defense.

[@danoneill2846]

Bear Sled !

[@GunSam]

If the point, was to have more capacity....is that an admission that 10mm is near worthless? If 6 can't do what you need....either you are saying 10mm sucks or you are saying you can't hit anything. Which is it?

[@teuton6167]

@@GunSam I think he’s saying that with a fast moving bear, many shots may miss so it’s better to have double the chances of getting hits. I’m a revolver guy for self defense from humans, but I recently saw a video about 2 men who put about 24 10mm rounds into a Grizzly before it died.

[@timg7627]

@@GunSam calm down dude You’re only making yourself look even more ridiculous. Have you even seen a brown bear in real life? I’ll give you a hint. They dont stand 75 yards away and let you take long slow single action shots when theyre attacking. 👍

[@thestcroixkid]

@@timg7627 ...funny how you "know" that about distance, but feel perfectly justified lowering the caliber well below the recognized minimum for single carry with no longarm, but don't know enough to understand a single round is all you'll likely get to fire in a real charge...Sounds to me you don't know what the hell you're talking about...the vast majority of people who choose to carry 10mm, do so behind a rifle or shotgun...which would be your first defense, not your autopistol.

[@michaelrocole7174]

Awesome test

[@Fudmottin]

Definitely stopped that gel column in its tracks.

[@warfumble]

Great test! Thanks!

[@LarryeWhite61]

The most important thing with any of the weapons is just how fast can YOU land on target follow up shots when YOU need to.

[@thestcroixkid]

...with enough power...bear charge through African calibers...10mm is way overrated.

[@caryvielhauer9743]

Sam, have you tried the underwood 38 special +p 158 grain hard cast black cherry coated load?

[@jeffreylocke8808]

The 44 magnum needs the Dangerous Game Buffalo Bore 265 grain flat meplat solid copper bullet for this test. The 44 magnum load you used is hard cast lead and when the nose is damaged it reduces penetration. The 255 grain weight was too light for the deepest penetration. Try a 330 grain 44 caliber bullet with a flat point for deepest penetration.

[@ru2yaz33]

Those velocities are typically for 6" barrel.

[@robertboothby2069]

I think that the bullet profile difference is what influenced the difference. In flesh I bet the ten would leave a self healing hole where the 357 and 44 would leave a more open hole. Check out the research on torpedo nose designs during WW2....

[@MrMrp1962]

Wish you had a Ruger gp100 with a three inch barrel in 10mm…Love to see the basics on that..

[@theoriginalOSOK]

Did you use a Paul Harrell-ism? High tech fleece? lol

[@teuton6167]

The only thing missing was a Shatneresque pause.

[@ted.angell7609]

KZbin deleted my comment 🙄. OK, here’s one for the algorithm anyway

[@Gieszkanne]

I have this problem here also sometimes.

[@BrokenBarBox]

Yep. Leaving a permanent comment on a g u n related channel is about a 50/50 proposition for me any more

[@JamesMorlan-tv2fr]

Sometimes some real 10mm ammo is to much for some semi auto guns.like what I have on some videos of putting a 10mm on a glock 21 magazine falls out. I also own a s&w 610 with 6.5" barrel good gun.

[@tommycarter4629]

Great video

[@motorgearhead]

Not sure why anyone would complain about this test. The gel shows what it shows. What I did take notice of was the slower speed of delivery of the 10 mm versus the true revolver cartridges. The explanation was the moon clip binding which is plausible. Regardless the end result was it was a little slower than the 357 and 44 magnum. Also think it’s grouping on that string was loser. All that said, all three pistols & calibers performed well.

[@philipfreeman72]

For bear defence any of these in a crossdraw with a 6 - 7.5 bbl. works .

[@xkben90]

Hey Sam, are the 10mm loads harder to eject than a traditional 357, or do they eject just the same? As always, thanks for the informational videos!

[@GunSam]

Without a moon clip, 10mm is more difficult lol. With the moon clip, it's about the same really.

[@xkben90]

@@GunSam Gotcha . I was wondering if it was a 10mm thing or a brand of ammo type of thing when people would use long probe looking sticks to extract their rounds with the 10mm revolvers. Although 10mm sounds like a slightly better version in terms of ballistics and effectiveness, I think I’ll just stick to my .357 and keep It simple.

[@jrkat]

Still like my Colt 1911 in 10MM not much more “capacity” but my first big pistols were 1911’s

[@johnenglish4652]

Thanks, great video. I have that 357 Mag / 38 Special is 0.358 dia., 10mm is 0.4005 dia., and 44 Mag / Special is 0.431dia., which kind of aligns with what your testing shows, I think.

[@SkankHunt-yo5on]

Underwood sucks a great big bag of DiKz!!! Buffalo Bore me brother! 🤟🇺🇸 This is my favorite gun channel, sincerely. God Bless!

[@danoneill2846]

I think most of the time, a person would be better off with a heavy XTP . In an auto the have a good shape for feeding , they tend to open slowly & go deeper than many HPs ( that open ) .

[@darikdatta]

I'm starting to suspect Underwood has some serious variance batch to batch. I tested the exact same .357 load, item 720, in a 4" 686+ and I got a average velocity of 1209, max of 1250. Not even close to what you got.

[@garysarratt1]

It seems to have gotten sloppier the last year or two.

[@WheelgunsOnWheels]

Awesome power demo Sam. After watching thousands of videos and all of yours of course I beg one question; why do box stats for velocity ALWAYS overclaim the true performance? It’s not like it’s just a few here and there, it’s like literally every brand in every caliber in every load in every case material. Yes sometimes you’re using a shorter barrel than the claimed test barrel from the manufacturer, but even when you’re using the same length as the company the results are 100% of the time a little, and frankly too many times a lot, slower than their inflated claims. Makes me want to start an ammo company called “honest ballistics” where I put the actual velocity on the boxes. Imagine if companies stopped lying to their customer base in all domains.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. It's all brand dependent on what their test barrel is, most of the time it's a "V" barrel, sort of a semi auto type closed chamber with a slit to simulate cylinder gap. Like with Remington and Federal, I generally get rated velocity as they use a 4" V barrel. With Underwood, they use 6" revolvers and Hornady uses 8" revolvers for their magnum ammo, so what I get in 4" barrels is usually less.

[@christopherbishop4927]

Who has been having feeding issues with this specific 10mm through their auto loader ????? What gun.....Manufacturer?

[@sleigh4019]

Should do 32hr 327fed and 357 sig now ..not sure if anyone makes 357sig in gramps gun

[@Gieszkanne]

For me the damge looked a bit bigger on th 357 Mag compared to 10mm. Out of your 605 this must be nasty to shoot. You didnt checked for bullet creep on your 10mm this time.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

44 is definitely more powerful. But it is heavier recoil. I am sure the extra penetration with the 10 would be "better" than the 44 but there may be scenarios where it would be. The 10 and 357 are not slouches. Thank you.

[@chrisgabbert658]

👍😊 that’s the hard cast how would fmj on closest weight compare for the poor guy.

[@BrokenBarBox]

Fmj with their rounded nose would be more likely to glance off bone and begin yawing. A flat hard cast breaks bones and penetrates in a more straightforward manner

[@chrisgabbert658]

@@BrokenBarBox I’ve box of 44mag 240 fmj and there flat nose and the 10mm the same, I haven’t any 357 🤷‍♂️ . I’ve seen some 9mm that is pointy rounds yep no good.

[@GunSam]

FMJ can deform when it hits heavy enough bones. Hard cast is maybe 3 times as hard through and through the center, so it doesn't deform.

[@BlakeHouse-j3u]

It pains me to say this . Full Boogie heavy cast 10mm from 4 inch Revolver is overlapping the performance of 215 gr .41mag. With better availability of brass and store bought ammo . ( Yes , the .41 has potential to go to 250- 265 gr cast and stabilize it . But the sweet spot of performance and control , is in the 210 - 225 range .]

[@silenceismycanvas]

10mm AKA the best MM.

[@bjdog42]

The model 69 Smith I bought was the least impressive revolver I've ever owned & one of the few guns I don't regret selling. I'd take a Smith 29 or a Redhawk over it any day. But then I really don't like 44mag anyway & can do anything with my 45colt Redhawk I can do with a 44mag with less recoil. Good test overall & I'm more impressed with the 10mm with each test. My Glock 29 will eventually find its way into my carry rotation.

[@GunSam]

@@bjdog42 I got the model 69 instead of getting a charter bulldog 4" .44 Special. For my original purpose of testing .44 Special ammunition, it's fantastic. I like the revolver.

[@bjdog42]

@GunSam I'm glad someone likes it. I keep seeing you pulling empties out of the cylinder which tells me the chambers need honing. Mine had a very rough action as well. I fixed the action & chambers on mine then traded it for a GP100 44special that suits me far better. But I get why you keep it for round testing. Again, thanks for a good test.

[@NEMOMEIMPUNELACESSIT1]

Good video...thx

[@nsob8897]

I have a question for anyone who wants to answer...doesnt have to be sam. Does anyone have any information about wear and tear of internal components of magnum revolvers from one brand to another? I am pretty new to them and so far have no problems with mine but i do shoot a lot of full power rounds from them. In fact i mainly shoot full power ammo in my revolvers because its fun and keeps my little baby hands strong for shooting other handguns. Now im sure theyve got a lot of information on their guns (being revolvers have been around for what? 170 -200 years now?) so i take that to mean smith, colt, ruger have all done their homework on internal layout to ensure longevity of parts...BUT!!! Id like to know what to expect if anything might decide to go wrong in my revolvers. Which parts, how they wear down, what sort of stress causes it (the recoil, the burnt powder, parts making contact with each other..etc.)

[@anonymousf454]

I honestly wish there would have been a few more rounds tested with both the 357 mag and the 44 mag. They could have been a fluke too.

[@MrMrp1962]

Can you do the 357 through a Ruger SP101 2 1/2 inch??

[@BrokenBarBox]

I think his short barreled .357 is a Taurus

[@MrMrp1962]

@@BrokenBarBox Close enough