.44 Magnum VS .357 Magnum for Defense? Dispelling Some Common Myths - Underwood SJHP Ballistic Test

[@GunSam]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJWxcmirptF-jac this is my typical accuracy with .44 Mag in this revolver

[@jeffrey4547]

i have a set of 1858 remingtons that i got from a guy that took first place in state against modern guns he was a retired colt gunsmith and marksmen they shoot sweet 100 yards no problem. so far every one that has shoot them fall in love with them best shooting hand guns i have and i have a lot . then i have extra cylinders and converters to 45 long colt plus i have a big collection of colts some 1800's like a navy, army, frontier and a 1892 38 acp

[@paulzollinger6343]

Much respect for not editing out the misses. Great video. Thanks

[@Betterifitsfree]

Not only show integrity but confidence in one's ability. Good on you.

[@isaacarnold4635]

A couple of years ago I was at an indoor range, the guys on either side of me were shooting 9mms, I was shooting my 3" S&W 686+ .357 with magnum Remington 125gr SJHPs. Their pistols went bang, bang, bang. Mine went BOOM. I saw the other shooters look over to see what I was shooting. My target, a B27 silhouette, was at 7 yards. The hot gasses blowing from out of my revolver actually blew the hanging target the other direction a little bit. Yeah, I'm old school.

[@GunSam]

Sounds like the police gun range scene in Robocop. "Where he get that FkN gun!!?"

[@moreme40]

I was shooting .357’s at a lane range last week. The guy in the next lane said he could feel the shock

[@johnqpublic2718]

I've got a 3" 686+ with an unfluted cylinder and while I do not have a large arsenal, I do own more than 2 firearms and despite that, my unfluted smith is by far my favorite one.

[@la_old_salt2241]

I've had the same experience with my Ruger LCR in .327mag. That's another fun gun.

[@mtbodyfarm5174]

If your 686 has the "HILLARY HOLE" that explains the extra noise! Just jokin hahahaha

[@brianleverich4467]

Before the magnum the .44 special ,. 45 colt and .45 acp were the get it done and did it well and always will . I very much appreciate your studies thank you

[@delisaallen3088]

correct !

[@dangerman007]

Very impressed with both loads! I love how people say the 9mm is "just as powerful" as the .357 magnum. I've never seen a 9mm rock a gel block like that!

[@delisaallen3088]

NO A 9MM AIN'T EVEN CLOSE TO A .357 ! that's like comparing a 22 short to a 9mm . 9 wins that contest. don't get me wrong 9 is a good round and against a black bear yes i would stand a good chance of survival .against a grizz ? well I'd still rather have that than a whistle.

[@ronolson2024]

A 9mm beats a .357 Magnum in only 1 scenario & 1 only. James Reeves from TFB TV KZbin channel was the 1st to me to point out this scenario, backed up by Ballastics by the Inch, & 2 separate videos from Gun Sam. That is when both are shot out of a short barrel, the 9mm is only slightly more powerful than the .357 Magnum. If you take a look back at Gun Sam's videos he actually proves this, but in 2 different videos. In longer barrels, .357 Magnum blows the 9mm out of the water!

[@bashisobsolete.pythonismyn6321]

.22LR absolutely will drop a charging bear. but you need a calm demeanor to just stand there and get the headshot.

[@andywilson8698]

​@@ronolson2024 if loaded right even a short barrel 357mag can stand up to a long barrel 9mm . But it absolutely needs to be loaded right!!!

[@wheelguns4wheelmen802]

@@bashisobsolete.pythonismyn6321 yeah, it isn't uncommon to dispatch trapped black bears with a .22 lr pistol. Also, a few years back in Cody, WY, there was a grizzly bear shot in the abdomen and killed with a .22 lr rifle (I want to say a 10/22), but it died way after the shooting from a nicked liver--could've still mauled someone easily before dying. But I'd rather have a .357 Magnum lol. Lots of fat, fur, and thick bones to have to penetrate with a .22 lr.

[@moreme40]

I can only imagine how devastating either of these rounds would be against an attacker. But I guess that’s their problem 😊

[@GunSam]

In general, rounds that tend to fragment upon impact and not over-penetrate, show to stop threats easily and also seem to be more lethal. While lethality isn't my concern, the two kind of go hand in hand.

[@ProjectSerpo90]

@@GunSam i regret trading my 586 L-Comp every single day. It was ridiculous accurate, always turned heads and got conversations going at the range and was gorgeous. Had her loaded down with 7 of 125gr Federal JHPs. I dont own any wheel guns at the moments but really thinking about picking up an SP101 or a S&W Model 66.

[@captaindanield5827]

Python for impressive cool factor, GP-100 for best value.

[@jimnagel5611]

INDEED -- I'LL HAZARD A WILD GUESS & SAY EITHER ONE WOULD DO A GOOD JOB OF STOPPING EVEN A REAL BIG BAD GUY -- 😄

[@newnights]

100%

[@willo7734]

Great way to dispel the 44 over-penetration myth. Like you said it’s all about bullet design. The manufacturers know what they’re doing. That’s also why people use hardcast for bear defense, because those hollowpoints are meant for human sized targets.

[@OutnBacker]

I will suggest you watch Paul Harrel's Meat Test ( leather jacket/T-shirt/pigs ears for skin/ribs for torso/sack of ornages for lungs/ribs for opp side/pigs ears/leather jacket) for a far better representation of what happens when one of these goes through a human being vs a big block of gel. Humans have lots of hollow spaces. It's not all grabby gelatin or hardboard. All these tests show is penetration in that medium - not in living tissue. Also, he sets up real walls with sheetrock and 2x4s with pop bottles inside two or three "rooms." Because sometimes you miss inside a house. IMO, unless a shooter is well drilled in his selection of ammo, and tests it, he will bear responsibility for over penetration - which his a real thing - even with #6 birdshot. I like the 357 and the 44mags, but I'm jus' sayin'.

[@hardworkingamerican8847]

​@@OutnBacker That's a great video . Paul Harrell is a legend .

[@finalcountdown7658]

I don't care or obsess about the "over penetration" nonsense. I primarily use 40s&w, 357mag, and 7.62x39 as my defensive ammo, but I sometimes EDC my M69 Combat Magnum with (44mag). I want powerful ammo that will penetrate barriers and still cause damage at the other end.

[@jona5517]

When bystanders get hit, they get by bullets from misses, that goes for cops, civilians and criminals. Lack of marksmanship is the issue not over penetration.

[@jona5517]

@@finalcountdown7658same here. 357, 44mag, 10mm all with the right loads is what I usually carry.

[@miketranfaglia3986]

You really can't go wrong with either of these!

[@GunSam]

Okay, after multiple comments on this video as well as dozens more of the same comment on other videos, I am going to address this. People have again and again suggested that I put paper behind my steel target to "see where my misses are". In the words of Paul Harrell - "Don't you think I have tried that already?". Let me just say this - the downrange camera you see in my edited footage is not what I see. When I did get a huge slab of carboard and put it behind the target, it was difficult to hold in place on an an angled hill - but also the first shot made spalling cover the cardboard immediately even though it was behind the steel. But the bigger point - even if I put the cardboard further back to prevent spalling - a dime sized hole in cardboard is impossible to see from 75 yards even with binoculars as where a miss in dirt with a foot of flying dirt is easy to see, and now with carboard in the way I am blinded to my dirt impacts after the bullet goes through the cardboard. People have good intentions and after non stop comments to try it, I did last December. I did not release the video because it was so bad and partly because I was sick and my voice was terrible. What sounds like a good idea is not. Even if it was a good idea, doing an elaborate setup to "fix" the one in 20 range sessions where I can't see where I am missing, is a bit extreme if you ask me. Anyways, here's the time I did try it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGXFpHx5p5eqn7M

[@pecosjane]

Yeah, I see. That cardboard wasn't helpful. Maybe one of the viewers who suggested that would be willing sit down range with a walkie talkie an spot the misses for you? They'd need to be pretty close to the target.

[@miketyke9451]

I appreciate you spending your time, money and energy to do these tests. I presume other viewers may be like me, and enjoy advancing our knowledge and understanding by watching videos that you and others create on this subject. It gives us a real leg up when we can afford to go shooting. That's why we started watching in the first place. Women hate that men take their complaints and start analyzing and brainstorming a fix for their problem. Your channel attracts the type of men that do this, on steroids! Literally! If we perceive a flaw in your system, we are on it. I could almost guarantee that the comments you receive are a fraction compared to the mental comments that you never get to see. Obviously the ones you get are a bit overwhelming sometimes. They pull in different directions, and you can't please everyone, all the time. Frustrating I know. The work that I did my whole working life had similar pulls from people, many who didn't know what I knew. You want to keep your viewers. So besides annoying, it's helpful to vet the comments. You are actually practicing science here. And while you are better at science than the FDA, CDC, etc... a cornerstone is looking for ways to keep refining the data, one change at a time if possible. Honesty is essential, and you have it in spades! Yet being a mere human, emotional filters, cloud intellectual data. A large target for long range is a huge money/time saver, trust me, I have wasted lots of both. I watched your video and can see why it didn't work. Can you? Edison said that he found a thousand ways not to make a lightbulb, before he succeeded in making one. Tesla saved tons of time and money doing many thought experiments before building anything. Someone asked Einstein what it was like to be the smartest man in the world. He replied;"I don't know, you will have to ask Tesla"! 1 Your backer didn't work because you couldn't see the hits on the ground: You are using a large target so that you don't have to see the hits on the ground. Make sure the target goes to the ground. 2. You can't see the hits on the target. Good, that is counter productive until you are finished shooting the group. Use a single firearm and load. Use a single aiming point, the smallest that you can see at the range chosen. A grid drawn on the target will save a lot of measuring while shooting. Shoot a group, walk up an take a picture with a caption for later analysis, then tape over the holes with tape that blends in. You will know where to hold, or adjust your sights to. Lastly, set posts away from your silhouette to avoid bullet splatter interfering. Start closer, and slowly increase distance. One shot at 25, one at fifty one at 75, group at 100, or any distance you like. Refine your technique however you like, there is much advice available. Be as honest with yourself as you have been with us, and you will be the dominant channel of this type. That's my take away from the hidden video. My best to you!

[@jsr-uz3oj]

I have to laugh at some of the stupid comments. The video was about a 44 Magnum vs 357 Magnum but the comments include 9mm 22 lr and wich one is better for taking down a bear. As always the best gun and caliber is the one you shoot the best. My mom is 86 has arthritis so I think I will get her a 44 Magnum for home and a 357 to carry. The only problem is she can't raise them to shoot them maybe they will be so scared they will run away.

[@peterbell9915]

❤❤❤❤❤r😢😢😢😢😢😢😮

[@wsc31]

For a number of years I carried a ,41 magnum as my duty weapon. I qualitied with it, in many cases doing better than officers using .38 specials. My primary ammo was the Police load, same bullet weight less velocity, Always had a few full magnum loads just in case something big and hairy thought I was lunch.

[@davidrox4591]

The forgotten middle brother. Now after a diet it's known as a 10mm.

[@leebaker2588]

41 mag is a great round. You carry a S&W? I have the Ruger Blackhawk, 6 1/2 in barrel. Not many guns got away from me but that Smith did.

[@wsc31]

@@leebaker2588 Mine is mod 57 4" blue Have had it for fifty years next week. I had a Blackhawk 4 1/2 " blue, that one got away but the S&W is here to stay.

[@leebaker2588]

@@wsc31 I absolutely understand. Underwood makes some nice ammo for the 41 mag.

[@JamesThomas-gg6il]

@@wsc31 an old friend of mine had super blackhawk 41 and i remember that thing screamed loudly over my 357. And i never shot it back then, he died about 10 years ago and we never got to back to shooting again. Well maybe in the after life.

[@LogainTheHumane]

I respect that you show your bad shots and your good ones. A lot of people's egos wouldn't let them show their off days. Excellent video as always

[@jamesclark6427]

I regularly carry .44 Magnum and .357. The .44 is a custom Ruger Redhawk that I made into a 2 5/8" barrel snub long before a factory version was available. Along with many other modifications, that I patterned off the Austin Behlert custom S&W N-frame snubs of the 1970s. Velocity loss for every load tested was only 150 fps going from 7 1/2" to the shorter barrel. So it's a highly efficient cartridge as well. .357 does seem to lose a bit more in a snub, but still quite formidable. Significantly exceeding any .38 Special or 9mm loads even from 2 1/2" barrel guns. I conducted many chronograph tests to verify this. Muzzle blast is substantial, of course. The chopped .44 Redhawk is still quite heavy and highly controllable in rapid fire, even with full power Magnum loads. No loss of accuracy at all either. Some mythology just never goes away. Ed McGivern was proving common revolver mythology wrong in the 1930s, but the same stories are still floating around to this day almost a century later.

[@rangetime6779]

This shows the power and performance of 357 and 44. The revolver is still very relevant. The 200 grainer in 44 helped with correct penetration. 240's probably over penetrate. You killed the same spot at 75 yards with 357! We know the angle of camera skews the actual impact location. Very good test.

[@bobjohnson1633]

Everybody wants to say how 10mm is better than 357 and if a bear charges, they somehow would empty a 10mm magazine into a bear's eye sockets.

[@pecosjane]

@@bobjohnson1633 Wow! Into the eye sockets! That's some fantastic shooting, especially while running away, messing one's pants, and screaming, "Mommy!".

[@GunSam]

@@bobjohnson1633 Only takes one story to know why 10mm isn't the best choice. I don't recall all the details, but more or less the investigation concluded that guy 1 was eaten because he forgot to grab his 10mm in a backpack 50 ft away. Guy 2 seeing his friend being killed and guy 1 yelling for guy 2 to use his gun, didn't work out because guy 2 could not operate the pistol. No round in chamber. We will never know exactly what happened as guy 1 and 2 were both found dead. And while people refuting me will be like, "i'm better, I carry + one", that all goes out the window when you roll down that hill and your one unbroken left arm now gets one shot off and it jams.

[@carlosmorris4510]

@@GunSam Oh my - that's an extremely good point!... Revolvers just seem more simple to me; a simple and reliable manual of arms. No slide to work etc... And I've even heard that it would be better for someone to have one over a semi-auto if they had to press it against a bear's body or head (if they unfortunately got that close) - because it wouldn't go out of battery. Semi-autos seem like they're primarily for human defense; revolvers are better woods guns (overall).

[@ariesmight6978]

​@Carlos Morris Wheel guns are great for both. Remember one very important thing. If you carry a very powerful handgun. Then use it in a defensive situation. Where only one round was needed. To drop the bad guy. Verses the 9mm or .22 carrier. Uses 10 or more rounds. To achieve the same affect. The defense attorney, now is in a position. To have to explain why the semi auto carrier. Took all of the additional. Shots and why each one was necessary. Verses the guy who only need to. Take that one shot. Or at least that one shot. Per bad person.

[@Colonel1Bravo]

I like your videos, you don’t waste time talking about stuff that doesn’t matter. Nice and to the point and fact based. Good job

[@justinfarley6009]

I have been wanting one of those model 69 since they were released. Great Channel, I consider myself reasonably informed but I always learn something from you.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. I was also waiting for one since they came out. Drooled over them for like 6 years, bought one in 2020 finally for like $740 which was a good price even back then.

[@roberthines2741]

Watching Jerry Miculek blow over one of his steel targets with 6 from a 44 magnum full power in just over a second is burned into my brain, I think Jerry has vice grips for hands! Anyway, always enjoy your videos, dude.

[@GunSam]

I think I could do it with enough practice. I have seen that video with a model 69 like mine. I think he said 180 gr magnums, but not all magnums are created equally.

[@AlekseySh1982]

Maybe it was .45 acp, not 44 mag? S&W model 625 looks very similar with 629.

[@dapawaz8310]

Underwood makes a load with a 180 XTP that claims 1700fps. Hornady used to sell a similar load, not quite that fast, that did a great job on melons and such. I think Hornady stopped making the load but still sells the bullet.

[@MPGunther1]

As always fun to watch and informative. Probably since I love revolvers, those are my favorite cartridges including their lower powered siblings.

[@dukeman7595]

I like you. You have the most honest and realistic channel out here, thankyou. Oh, those misses were not your shooting ability, I have seen you shoot many time before at this distance and do very well. I contend it was the ammo, yes it did well at close range, however, it was not compatible with with the two revolvers at 75 yards.

[@ironmikehallowween]

Yes. Bullet construction is a thing. It dramatically effects penetration, expansion, etc. thanks for the video

[@timrobinson6573]

Sid Eudy, known as Psycho Sid is 6'9" 330 lbs. He hit Arn Anderson with a wooden chair leg and then stabbed him 20 something times with a pair of scissors. With someone that large you would probably want a 44 Magnum just to be sure it will get the job done.

[@GunSam]

That's pretty big. He's got nearly a foot and 100 lbs on me. That's the type of attacker you let get close enough for a hip shot, so you can run away.

[@la_old_salt2241]

​@Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ That's the truth Sam!

[@Bushmaster10MM]

​@GunSam Honestly a 44 might not be necessary just because the antagonist is excessively large. Up close and personal (Bad breath range) I'd still take a snubby Smith & Wesson loaded with proper 38 special rounds. Thank you for your diligence at your craft Sam. It is greatly appreciated.

[@rugger1009]

A 158 grain .357 will take out a large piece of spine with proper placement no matter how big they are.

[@dapawaz8310]

Guys like that are why weapons were invented.

[@kitkatcats3360]

I like that you showed the misses and didn’t edit them out.

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

That .357 load was impressive next to the .44 mag 👍

[@Frog13799]

I think a "muzzle flash" in low light video with various calibres and loads could be a good one. Its the reason replaced my 357 with a 45acp. I still miss that revolver, if licencing wasnt such a drawn out hit and miss affair in my country I would prob get a 44 special revolver. Once again great content and thank you.

[@michaelnesmith7069]

Great video. You made your point. Some days long range shooting just isn't in the cards. Or you may have a bad batch of ammo. Try again in a few days and use different ammo....you'll probably shoot at 50 yards just fine. Keep up the good work!

[@GunSam]

Thanks. This ammo was definitely grouping differently than normal, but when I do these tests I often have about 10 rounds left for steel as I test 20 round boxes, so if for some reason I can't find the point of impact in 10 rounds, I can't hit them a bunch. The .357 Mag makes sense as I typically have the sights set for 125 gr, but the .44 Mag should have hit a lot.

[@americanpatriot6918]

​@@GunSamFrom what I saw most rounds were either low, or low and left. I'm sure if you had more rounds you would have found the sweet spot. At least you didn't edit it out like most would. Respect for showing that sometimes it takes more than ten rounds to get on target. Especially when your shooting a revolver/pistol with a four inch barrel.

[@paulmartin6895]

Good test . It shows alot with the ammo that is used . For distance it looks to be depending upon the type of ammo.

[@ChuckLiftss]

Thank you for this. Fire speed, recoil handling, and penetration. Things i concern about but you showed me in this video that all those really aren't too much of a big deal. And as for shooting at a distance i think that just requires a little bit of practice. Good stuff! 👍

[@williamgrissom1995]

Somehow folks that talk about the different 9mm bullets forget that other calibers have different bullet types and speeds too. Besides a 44magnum revolver is a very versatile gun when it comes to ammo. From mild to wild. From light 44 special to hot 44 magnum rounds. From rounds for human predators all the way up to grizzly bears. Like I said very versatile. Great video! 😎👍

[@timt8029]

Exactly. There are cowboy .44 Russian rounds that are crazy mild on up to the +p+ buffalo bore rounds.

[@alabamasmokeywilson6818]

Great video, I would like a 44. This proves my .357 will do the job.

[@miketyke9451]

Armsco nailed it, saying 'the myths date back to hardcast bullets that penetrate a lot.' Not a good thing for trailer park, apartment, or close subdivision dwellers. But for the woods, for large animal protection, would be perfect. A large bear won't do a back flip with a torso hit from most rifle calibers most of the time. Magnum revolver rounds are a lot less powerful, but often can penetrate better, making central nervous system hits more likely. Energy measurements are not as important in such circumstances. The .44 spl. Is in the running with proper loads, and much easier on unprotected ears.

[@GeteP]

Mate, you can handle a big bore firearm with supreme confidence ... Loved this video. In my experience, sometimes when you get the first hit, you "get your eye in" and you're away. Nicely done! Pete 🇬🇧

[@phillhuddleston9445]

This proves they are both good cartridges and revolvers and the .44 magnum definitely takes the win but not by a huge margin. I would not feel undergunned with either.

[@PatriotPaulUSA]

Just got my 1st revolver after many years of semi autos I finally jumped into revolvers and 44 Mag/Spl. Thanks for dispelling myths about these 2! Also thanks for showing us the defensive use of these 2 calibers Gun Sam! Reloaders have such a huge range of weights and velocities in both of these 38/357 and 44m/spl. I think its largest in spread from 44SPL/Mag imho but I am still learning. 38/357 is nice as well. It looked like you were just hitting slightly left with both calibers on those targets. You were very close tho.

[@tonij9089]

I really appreciate u showing honest results from 75 yards. I really belueve u had an off day

[@delisaallen3088]

shot em both for over 25 years their both great rounds !

[@darrenbowers3267]

You always do a great job!!! You had a good group with 357 at 75yrds they were just hitting low. The 44 was low on some shots also. Darren

[@tomstone3645]

Thumbs up for keeping in there and not editing

[@armandoperezjr]

I wish I could subscribe twice for the honesty. ❤

[@LionquestFitness]

Been doing some research on Delf "Jelly Bean" Bryce. His favorite revolver until the Registered .357 was brought out in 1935, was a .44 Special Hand Ejector. I've been wondering why .44 Special seemed to lose steam as a defensive cartridge during that era unless the the power of the new .357 Magnum just eclipsed it. I've also wondered about the viability of .44 special being used as a self defense round today. Anyway - Good video and comparison.

[@timt8029]

As you say, the .357 eclipsed it but with the right loads, I really like the .44 special. I would feel well protected using one. It is a very low pressure round. We really need a mild +p load for it. Not crazy like the .45 colt +p loadings.

[@jeffpaul8260]

If you can find the 44 specials!!! I like them in my smith model 69 with 2.75 inch barrel for carry at times. But where is the 44 special?????? no bullets to be found.

[@robertellis4130]

First, my brother in law defended himself with a .44 Mag Super Blackhawk. It worked. Second, he didn't need the follow up shot.

[@davepayne1915]

Bizarre! I've seen you shoot accurately at long range with magnums, in fact you motivate me to practice practice practice to stretch my distance. When I started I couldn't even hit the target at 5 metres! Now getting towards 20 metres. So... thanks for your honesty when you miss,... for whatever reason, and for your motivation

[@bobcatforever3485]

GS. Again, always a good and interesting video. Looks like really good ammo. I have a .44 Mag water jug video coming out tomorrow, it was a real splash! Thanks for all your hard work. Take care.

[@GunSam]

Thanks you. I will check it out of I remember.

[@morrisadams1471]

There ya go, bustin’ myths again…

[@williamhenderson9535]

I have been waiting for this comparison for some time now. I love my Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum. Personally, I find that I can be quite accurate with the revolver verses my S & W 9mm Semi Auto. I wonder about the hollow point effecting the distance verses a full metal jacket? I love your channel and your presentation. Thanks!

[@robertseafield5810]

Good video. Speer used to make a 44 Magnum Short Barrel load with a 200 gr 44 Special Gold Dot. Velocity was shown as 1070 fps. You can duplicate this loading with Unique powder, if you can find the bullets. I substitute a 200 gr 44 XTP.

[@PC-vq5ud]

Watch Paul Harrell's video on 44 Special. His results were that the bullets loaded by the factory ammo he tried did not expand and over penetrated. The probable cause is that the factory used the same bullets they put in 44 Mag loads. Too hard. One of the loads I believe was Gold Dot.

[@GunSam]

I did the same velocity with a 180 gr XTP before, but it's not a public video. Very fun loads to shoot as the muzzle jumps faster and snappier than a .44 Special, but doesn't raise very high the way a true magnum does. I remember seeing how Hornady also did this same thing, Critical Defense .44 Mag, I think it was 180 gr if I recall at like 1,250 FPS so it was low 600 ft lb range, pretty ideal for a carry .44 Mag.

[@miketyke9451]

I have been watching your videos for years and like your approach to this. We are all looking for info I think. One area that we could get a great deal more info pretty easily, would be to have a large target backer behind the long range silhouette. Wider and taller. Using the same hold throughout, you might see a group just off of the silhouette, and would indicate sight adjustment rather than an ammo issue.

[@GunSam]

Doesn't work. I've tried it. It does baffle my mind why someone would think a dime sized hole in some sort of backer would be easier to see from distance than a puff of flying dirt a foot in size. After non stop comments about backers, I broke down and got a 10 ft square of cardboard and tried it, not only were the holes impossible to see, but now this cardboard covered my dirt impacts and I could see nothing. Also even the the cardboard was behind the steel, bullet steel impact spalling covered the cardboard making any bullet holes impossible to see even with magnified optics. On the words of Paul Harrell "don't you think I've tried that?"

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Excellent results in the gel. Point taken. Thank you.

[@robtheshooter2736]

Always great content from GunSam! Thank for all your efforts.

[@contingency9]

An excellent well balanced informative video keep up the good work! Greetings from UK.

[@frankordonez2826]

Really nice video exelent

[@GunSam]

This is getting annoying. People again and again keep trying to spot where my misses are, and like I have asked for in other videos, please do not because you are all wrong. The downrange camera is below the target and pointed upward, and often times not perfectly centered and it uses a widescreen lens. This is why you see the top of the steel 35 feet from the top of the hill normally, and downrange it shows the steel as high as the top of the hill. Basically what happens is the downrange camera angle (to prevent shooting the actual camera) picks up impacts nowhere in the dirt to where that dirt actually is in reference to the steel. For instance, a miss left by 3" will actually show it missing high by a foot with fine windage, a miss low right by 12" will often show the dirt move dead center windage but high about the target by 3 feet because the camera is below the target, pointed up so the dirt the bullet hits is in a completely different relation to the steel as what you think it is. Here is a quick video showing the perspective phenomenon, although in this clip I only got left from different amounts left, often times if it is left by only an inch, the downrange camera shows it actually to the right. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXrGiZ14hL2Bp6M

[@donparker1823]

I just bought a S&W 686 and am just learning to shoot double action. I was amazed at how good you are using the double action trigger. I can do it pretty well on single action but double? Not yet. Also I bought a .44 mag back in the day when Dirty Harry was so popular. I sold it about a year later. Just not fun to shoot. Stung my hand. The .357 mag is nothing like the .44 in terms of recoil. But it looks like it is every bit as deadly as the .44 so thanks for this demo. Well done.

[@GunSam]

Lot's of people think single action is easier than double action, when it's the opposite. A double action trigger press automatically makes your hand grip correctly for tightness and the pull is not "harder". The reason people think it's a heavier trigger and more difficult is because they are using the wrong muscle and joints. If you just use the first finger joint rather than the finger tip, squeeze with your palm also, the trigger pull to the muscle doing the pulling, is no more strain that a finger tip muscle pulling a semi auto trigger. When I go single action, shooting becomes twice as difficult as that natural need to squeeze the palm and use the first joint isn't there, therefore I will be shaky and pull shots.

[@donparker1823]

@@GunSam thanks for that instruction. I’ll focus on that.

[@Ben--David]

I like the 44 special in my 44 mag snub nose. No over-penetration. BIG hole. Primarily use Magtech 44 Special 240 Lead Flat Nose.

[@timothyriehm5967]

I like the way he ran that test with 3in gel to simulate the pectoral muscle. Testing has got to be as close to a live scenerio as possible. I think this is probably pretty accurate.

[@harryballzaky2674]

That 75 yard shot was crazy long. With the high cost of ammo, every miss is painful to me & I don't like to practice at more than 25 yards. My buddy likes to shoot at 50 yards & I'll occasionally fire off a few at that range but, never on my own. If I've got 50+ yards between myself & an attacker, I plan to get cover/concealment between myself & the attacker & run like hell.

[@JeffreyCotle]

AWSOME gun Sam. Two of the best revolver rounds ever. I can say from experience. That both will do fine for hunting. I shoot hard cast lead through both. They both penetrate beyond what is needed. 15 deer. I never find a bullet. An in hole and an exit. Both will stop a bear. For people I carry 38 spl. Std load lead. 😊😊😊

[@TheBandit59]

In Marshall Evans book; “ Handgun stopping power”, in one shot stops on a human being .357 was top dog over every other roun at the time , it beat out 9mm, .45, 44 mag and everything else

[@russellleavitt4449]

The ballistics of both rounds is very impressive. I am quite aware that this is a revolver comparison. I have to say my .44 Mag have has a 17 inch barrel and a polymer stock. It is the Henry Big Boy X in .44 Mag. I probably should seek a comparison for this weapon although this test is very informative. Thanks again.

[@EmyajNosdrahcirEniacSovereign]

It is the kind of ammo people use in their guns of mostly any calibre to consider for a worry of over penetration. That being particularly the bullet type, and then grain load of powder. Where I have noticed that snub nose revolvers and shorter pistol barrel lengths penetrate further in the gel than a longer barrelled handguns. But ONLY with Jacketed hollow point bullets, and those with similar expansion properties. The faster energies from the longer barrel cause's further and quicker expansions of the jacket than if it were shot from a shorter barrel. This would cause the bullet to loose momentum faster, and penetrate less distance as it expands more quickly. FMJ and hard cast type rounds will shoot right thru multiple people even with just calibres like a 9mm in pretty much any barre length. Yet will leave a smaller wounding channels on a subject. While that longer barrels with Hard Cast and FMJ type rounds will increase their over penetration as presumed or expected with longer barrel guns.

[@biggunshandguns3687]

At 12 yards with the 357 your speed was very impressive even with losing one. The 44 was impressive as well Like you said timing and the proper trigger control and I would think the naysayers will have to find a different reason to say the 44 is to hard to shoot repeated shots. Very good video thanks

[@la_old_salt2241]

Most of the naysayers haven't put the time in shooting the magnums and learning how to properly control them.

[@NukeCult666]

Nay Sayers usually shoot like school girls in the first place, I take that back they usually can't shoot as well 😂

[@USAACbrat]

Alot of people talk about the 44 Mag have never shot one. 44 is more likely to shed the jacket than a 357. I remember shooting a 44 with stars of bullet jackets all over the back stop.

[@joewiese4174]

First time using that type of ammo is probably the reason the 75 yard shot is off. I had a Taurus Tracker 627 in .357 mag 7 shot 7 inch barrel. The loads that claim home defense were squirrely at 50yrds (3 inch group) and bad at 100yrds (8 inch and usually one stray) over multiple boxes and multiple range trips. With standard round tip ammo it improved to 3 inches at 100yrds. With the Hornaday ballistic tip hunting ammo it improved to 1 1/4 inch at 100yrds. All groups were 7 rounds.

[@GunSam]

I think it's the power of those .357's were insane. Almost every lead core 125 gr at 1,450 FPS or 158 gr at 1,250 FPS will be dead on. When ammo gets a hundred FPS more than typical, I start seeing this. I also see it with copper rounds of the same weight and velocity as lead core. I typically prefer normal power ammo for this reason. Even in .38 Special I will prefer normal Speer or Remington ammo for my snubs over Underwood or Buffalo Bore for the same reason.

[@joewiese4174]

@@GunSam Agreed

[@Starbuckin]

I love my Taurus Tracker .357! I can shot from bed of pickup truck and burn up a 5 gallon bucket at 100 yards with the sights flat, its incredible!

[@mkshffr4936]

I love the 36 and 32 calibers but one big advantage of the calibers that start with a 4 is that they can be downloaded to lower pressures while still remaining effective. This is especially true in a rifle or carbine.

[@GunSam]

Yes. Many people think energy is energy. They will be like, 9mm+P and .45 ACP = SAME. But they don't understand what momentum is, and when I mention it they will "school" me about how .45 ACP cannot knock people down. I then have to educate them that they are not schooling me, but momentum is real, I never claimed that it could knock people down but it does makes a bullet keep moving through a material like a body, or even long range air - without losing steam, without tumbling and without losing penetration the way a lighter bullet can. I call these guys the 'lose all your power out the cylinder gap' crowd. As they will talk about a falsehood that needs modern updates and their correction of falsehoods often has some merits, but they only list what they have heard other people say while refuting false information with no personal study of the subject. They are thrilled to share their knowledge on ballistics 101 that they think you don't know, yet they are wrong even about their corrections about other false information lol.

[@mkshffr4936]

@@GunSam 👍🎯

[@red9man2130]

I agree BUT unless You are limited to a .44 lever gun for logistic reasons like cowboys were (carrying a Revolver in same caliber) One is better of with a bottle neck rifle round.

[@mkshffr4936]

@@red9man2130 Not necessarily. Yes a .30-30 can get you up to hydrostatic velocities but you increase the muzzle blast significantly which can be a tactical disadvantage without electronic hearing protectors. You also have half of the capacity before you need to top up so there are always trade offs.

[@alwaysfreedom9354]

For decades, I used my .44 mag revolvers for hunting. And carrying in the bear woods. And having fun at my backyard range. And the public range. But I am so old now with problems with my hands and wrists, my several .44s are not taken out of the safe that much anymore. But for most of my life, .44 mag revolvers were my favorite guns. It has only been in the last few decades it was legal to carry a gun in public in my state. I carry a Glock now. But I carried a .45 1911 when I had my jewelry store many decades ago. Cocked and locked.

[@JDJ1898JADE]

Thanks for the video. I had these questions myself and now you have answered them.

[@harrystangel6857]

I carried a S&W M-29 6.5 “ inch. Always shot expert. Great weapon. Sent it back to S&W for rebuild After 7 years. Shot thousand + rounds. Also have M-19 6” that I used in competition. Still have both‼️

[@artfulalias3984]

Good test as usual. Both loads performing. Except in hand gun hunting circles, there is generally gross misunderstanding of revolvers, magnum velocity, and 40+ caliber realities. I'm not suggesting that revolvers are optimum for tactical roles. But they are far from ineffective.

[@2001Artfull]

Sam, how big are you? It looks like you have strong forearms. Can you address this issue? Thanks.

[@robinj.9329]

Once you've see a 300 pound Black Bear drop dead in it's tracks, from a single shot from the .357 Magnum, you will have all the confidence you need that it is perfectly adequate for self-defense!!!!!

[@markmuch1295]

G. Gordon Liddy recommended the .44 Special for self defense. But that was before the .327 magnum came out.

[@moreme40]

G Gordon didn’t think much of the 9mm I remember

[@PassivePortfolios]

According to Marshall and Sanow's "Handgun Stopping Power - The Definitive Study" which examined real life examples, the 357 mag. 125 grain JHP was the best with a 94% stopping rate with the first shot.

[@GunSam]

I thought it was 96%

[@PassivePortfolios]

@@GunSam it is 96%, thanks for the correction.

[@GunSam]

@@PassivePortfolios 96 and 94 are both good. I think if I recall, (I am testing myself without looking) that the Hydrashok 230 gr .45 ACP was 94%. I don't remember all the rounds on that list but I do remember that one, and I also remember .38 Special LRN is something like 51% in a 4" barrel and 49% in a snub. I can't remember the rest.

[@PassivePortfolios]

@@GunSam you are right, the Hydrashock and Speer 200 grain "flying ashtray" scored above 90%. The old .38 RNL 158 gr. "widow maker" was around 50% from 4" police revolvers. These were used by police agencies until the late 70s with dismal results. The .25 ACP and .22 LR scored around 35%-40%, which is surprisingly high. Don't remember the rest. I have the book somewhere.

[@PassivePortfolios]

@@GunSam my friend's dad worked for SPPD back in the 70s and 80s. He shot a bank robber off duty with a .38 snubby using the old .38 RNL. 2 out of the 5 shots hit, one in the arm and one in the chest, near center mass. The robber lived. This incident really shook his confidence in the agency ammo.

[@david5757808]

Most excellent. UW 200 grain is what I like for general purpose in my Ruger RH 5.5 Bbl. Nice to see that gel result. Rock on.

[@joeyoung3319]

VERY IMPRESSIVE TEST.. your test actually show me 44 Magnum with Full House loads is not unreasonable with lighter weight bullets. Naturally, there's always 44 special rounds, but it's very good to know there are Magnum rounds that will not make you look bad.

[@joec7384]

So...props on the misses. What every shooter knows is, it doesn't matter where your hitting, as long as you're hitting the same spot. Those 75Y misses were dead on the same wrong. And with double action to boot. Outstanding! The next go where you went SA, I think you were (understandably) frustrated so they were a bit more random. Aside from that, you set out to disprove some .44 Mag myths whcih you did with ease, but after the gel tests, my takaway is that .357 performs as well as, if not better than, .44 so if it's easier to shoot go with .357 Mag. This was a fascinating and eye openeing video. Thank you!

[@GunSam]

They were not in the same spot, they appear the same spot in dirt, on that camera, in reality one shot can be 3 feet off from another. I know it doesn't make sense, but it's from skewing. a 3 foot spread of area is condensed into what appears to be 12" on that camera. That's why the top of the hill looks 30 feet from the silhouette, then downrange it's as tall. Also there's a tree 12 feet left of the target, looks 5 feet left. Just how it is.

[@sombra6153]

I thought this was a great test. The .44 Mag was impressive. I remember the .44 Mag’s reputation for over penetration in anything smaller than a grizzly was based on shooting statistics from the late 80s or early 90s. I don’t know how seriously the .44 Mag was tested since then - assumed ammo development focused more on big game loads than self defense. But it appears that the ammo manufacturer did some quality development in this case. My experience with the .44 Mag is limited, but the last one I fired, a four inch 629 was owned by a buddy who bought it for backup while hunting in bear and big kitty country. That one was ported and recoil actually was about the same with some 240 grain stuff at 1200-1300 fps.

[@geraldbodnar2718]

I'm a 357 fan ! Always will be !

[@CaffeineThrottle]

Nice work.I routinely double action a .500 sw mag, for the same reason you demonstrated the.44. There's a lot of paper tigers out there.👍

[@worldobserver3515]

New viewer here. Enjoyed the video. Do you have any videos with the 45LC?

[@mathiask7959]

Moral of the story is shoot what you’re comfortable with and any pew pew is better than no pew pew

[@georgehorner1578]

I remember reading an article by Evan Marshall, who said shooting someone with a 357 mag was like blowing a candle out, not even a whimper.

[@RM-yc2ji]

As always..very enlightening..i think either would be just fine for home defense..thx

[@anthonygalliart1789]

I consider a 4" S&W model 29 loaded with Federal 240 LSWC HPs to be about the paramount self defense pistol against 2 legged and loaded with 300 gr full house magnum bear loads the paramount trail gun in bear country. The .357 is not as versatile as that but works great on 2 legged. Taking a chance in bear country but beats the tar out of 9mm & .45 acp for deer hunting. I have owned many of both but I love my .44 magnums as do everything pistols.

[@ronniehahn1885]

Well my friend, great video as always. The 44 recoil internet opinions are hilarious. My 500 mag doesn't even do what you mentioned. Internet bs, I guess? As for your longshots, looked left and low you had high fliers and a right. My guess the barrels are too short to stabilize the rounds at distance? I am sure different brands with even the same grain projectiles would have performed better? As for big bore recoil, its practice. As the rounds go by you get used to the recoil and you instinctively control flinches. I still like my long barrels. My 6.5 and my 7.5 in 44 and 45LC. Even my 6.5 in 357 makes the longer distance much more consistent. My 686P with the 3inch barrel is mighty accurate for its class. Once again internet gurus most of the time have no practical experience, just an opinion.

[@whiskeythrottleracing]

I love my Model 69. I don't shoot many hot magnum loads because it hurts....but can shoot cooler magnums and specials all day. Thanks for the vid!

[@GunSam]

I honestly got mine because I was going to get a 4" Charter Arms target Bulldog in .44 Special, and I found this model 69 online for like $150 more. So I got something I really wanted for testing hot .44 Special ammo, plus like here, something I can run .44 Mag in. But also I wanted the model 69 since it came out like 10 years ago and Jerry Miculek did a video on it. I still love that video.

[@546people]

Clear display of information. Thanks

[@straycat1674]

When I still the wore the badge I got to a point where my daily carry was a 44 magnum Smith & Wesson revolver. It was a lot of gun. Possibly overkill. But I was also in the fugitive recovery division. And sometimes just knowing I had that was enough to scare people. Never had to use that particular gun in the line of duty. But if you wanna use that thing accurately you need to practice a lot.

[@TerryCheever]

Thanks for a good test run. I am more confident in using my .357 mag and dispelled need to upgrade to .44 mag, .357 will do the job just fine. I know it (my .357) shoots power, but wasn't sure didn't need .44 in case stumbled across a bear on a trail, but looks like they are very close in actual kill capability and am more confident my .357 will stop a bear just as good as a .44, well good enough anyway.

[@wallywire]

I always wondered about the 44 for self/home defense. As I have always heard the same things you said about the 44 mag. I thought you should have used the same barrel length for the test. Preferably 4” or less I thought I heard steel report on all but 1 75 yard shots.

[@GunSam]

4.125" vs 4.25" isn't enough different to say it's not the same barrel length.

[@marinegunny826]

I carry a model 29 and it's the only handgun I own. We have bear where we live and I like to hike through the woods. I am comfortable and confident that I can defend myself against any threat.

[@lazaruslazuli6130]

I'd like to see a similar video using the same ammo, .357 and .44 shot from 20" barrel lever-action carbines.

[@ElainesDomain]

I'm going with quality control at Nosler. A lot of different companies use them making it difficult to track a bad batch. The first shot with the .357 spelled a problem. Just a thought.

[@ryancawdor8083]

excellent performance. more wound channels for defensive stops.

[@ElainesDomain]

@@ryancawdor8083 I agree with that. But as I understand it they aren't supposed to do that. I don't mind tumbling either.

[@GunSam]

@@ElainesDomain The lowest energy here with a .357" bullet was almost 700 ft lbs energy. I have seen the same type of thing with Federal and Remington bullets with a couple hundred ft lbs less.

[@Mike-ik7dl]

Cool video thanks for the time not much difference to me up close really good info the speeds surprised me but the gel really surprised me 👍🏼

[@JP1AO]

New subscriber here. I have been seeing you once in a while and do like your format. I have seen enough to know that you are a better shot than what was shown today. Anyways, I was just thinking I would like to start trying gel.

[@whylie1555]

Ur so honest and genuine…. No way u believe bushes, donkeys and snakes talk

[@SpaceCowboyX9]

44 Mag has always been my favorite round but for home defense, I think the 44 Special is a better option. Could you possibly do a gel test with 44 Specials?

[@johnqpublic2718]

Nice shootin'! I need to get some of that Underwood SJHP for my 686+!

[@elqueso5312]

The difference between .357 magnum is really bullet diameter and weight. They travel at nearly the same speeds and penetrate almost equally. The bigger cartridge will produce greater power through greater mass.

[@leebaker2588]

Nice video. Underwood is the way to go. Be interesting if you have the weapon to compare a 41 mag to these . . .

[@timothyriehm5967]

The inaccuracy while shooting steel targets may have been due to ammunition. Try a few different kinds you get better results.

[@hardball107]

I'm a evolver guy and I have many 357 and 44's to choose from. My favorite CCW ? A Taurus 3" 856 Defender or for deep cover my Smith 642. In the winter my 3" 7 shot GP100 fills the bill and for bears when camping I have a Taurus 4" M44 6 shot 44 Magnum. They all hit where I aim and get the job done. I have a 6.5" 629 Classic but I prefer the Taurus M44, with the tuned action, ported barrel and the best set of grips ever it's faster, more accurate and at half the cost of the Smith it's the best deal going. I do CCW with the big Taurus 44 and I carry a 200gr XTP leaving the barrel around 1000fps or so, basically a hot 44 Special load. With the ported barrel follow up's are easy and having to shoot your target more than once is just silly.

[@robpiazza3033]

Nice video, excellent work sir.