The Second MOST Fair 9mm VS .40 VS .45 Ballistic Test You Will Ever See! Underwood Nosler

Thanks to Dan the Wolfman for this ammo! / danthewolfman .Testing out the Underwood JHP ammunition with Nosler bullets. The 9mm is a 124 gr+P+ rated at 1,300 FPS, the .40 S&W is a 180 gr rated at 1,100 FPS and the .45 ACP is a 230 gr+P rated at 1,000 FPS. The .45 ACP ammo was provided by Dan the Wolfman. I use 5.0" M&P's for the 9mm and .40 and a 5.3" Glock 41 for the .45 ACP. I am doing a 10% Clear Ballistics test with and without 1/4" medium density fiberboard (to represent ribs or sternum VS no MDF to represent a "gut shot"), as well as a 10 yard practical accuracy drill. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...

[@GunSam]

I want to take the time to address the same comment I get almost daily on my channel in regards to testing 9mm+P VS .45 ACP VS .40 S&W. People will ask why the 9mm and .45 ACP are +P but the .40 S&W is not. It's pretty simple, the 9mm and the .45 ACP are both over 100 years old and their original design was for guns that could not handle more pressure. Now fast forward over 100 years and modern guns can easily handle more pressure, so under SAAMI specification the .45 ACP maximum pressure of 21,000 PSI was bumped up to 23,000 PSI with +P. The 9mm under SAAMI specification max pressure of 35,000 PSI was bumped up to 38,500 PSI with +P. The .40 S&W was created around 30 years ago well into modern metallurgy times, so it's creation simply started out at what is essentially +P pressure of 35,000 PSI, but not labeled as +P as there's no need to label it as such. There IS NO .40 S&W+P under SAAMI spec, so I do not use what does not exist.

[@joshdiehl8737]

Perfectly reasonable explanation

[@SuperD00D]

I dont get why 9mm +p is 38,500, on top of that +p+ is fairly well accepted yet no official pressure, yet EVEN STILL .40 is considered “high pressure” and “not needed” at 35,000 psi? What’s the deal with that? I got chased out of r/guns for even asking with no answer other than “get a 10mm” I just bought a G 23 last night I had no 10mm in the budget bruh… This is why 9mm +p+ keeps coming in steady as more energy than .40 regularly. Actually, you need the hot .40’s to even stay close to 9mm +p+. Normal +p 9mm is right there with .40 energy these days. Weird… just a year ago .40 was always killing 9mm in energyxxx

[@joshdiehl8737]

@SuperD00D Because like the dude said 35,000 is basically already +p and if you need a .40 cal +p+ you really just need a 10mm. There is no longer semi auto case for 9mm or .45 acp

[@SuperD00D]

@@joshdiehl8737but how is it already “+p” at 35,000 when 9mm standard is ALSO 35,000, yet they did make a +p which is 38,500, and then they even have a +p+? Am I not making sense? 🤦‍♂️ feel like Im talking to trees. If 9mm +p is 38,500 and .40 and 9mm standard are both 35,000 it seems obvious .40 is due for a +p standard

[@joshdiehl8737]

@SuperD00D Your logic is totally solid. I agree with your thought process for sure. You're right about everything you stated. The only thing You're missing is the .40 is a shortened case from. The 10mm. There is no larger case the 9mm was based off of, and the .45 acp was based off a rimmed .45 colt so there's no semi auto larger case available for the .45 acp. That's the difference. If you want the capacity of 9mm or big caliber of .45 but want more power from each your only option is +p. With .40 cal if you need more power you can get a 10mm. Realistically most people do not need significantly more pressure (and power) in handgun rounds for human tissue. Maybe more so for a woods gun but again you may as well go with 10mm or larger for that purpose. I don't think it can't be done for .40 cal and your logic is solid but there's probably not a huge market for it

[@bradmiller9993]

I like my glock G41 (45 ACP) but I am very selective about ammo. Some of the hard cast heavy stuff (255 grain) manages 32" of penetration which seems pretty good if you're fishing and want to carry a bear pistol 'just in case'. At the same time, a few of the 45 cartridges availabe do manage to expand pretty good at 45 velocities which I use for travel carry. Anyway, since I'm a boomer I'm just going to say it: " two world wars ! " Thanks for the video.

[@OneForChrist177]

Brad “Two World Wars” Miller. Legend

[@saltcreekammo]

You should make this a series of these 3 going head to head, testing from a variety of manufacturers... very interesting.

[@danoneill2846]

10 MM ???

[@exothermal.sprocket]

So for the 45acp choose the Federal HST 230+p. Most videos I've seen of the HST produces very reliable, large, uniform expansion. Or Speer Gold dot 230gr.

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

As usual, an EXCELLENT video! However this only reaffirms my own thoughts and I align with what Paul Harrell states; that is “hyper ammunition is just all hype.” The +P+ 124gr bullet loading used in this video didn’t perform all that impressively when hitting the simulated “bone.” It didn’t make 12” minimum. However on the other hand, Federal’s 147gr HST standard pressure loads seem to perform better than these +P+ loads. I prefer standard pressures over +[P]lutonium+ rounds that just beat the crap out of one’s firearm. The +P+ isn’t needed these days when standard rounds like the Winchester Ranger T’s, Federal HST’s, Honrnady Critical Duty and Speer Gold Dot’s loaded to “standard” pressures tend to outperform those hyper ammunition loads. Same can be said for the .45ACP’s when comparing the one in the video, to the same brands as listed above, yet chambered in 45. If you need a “bigger gun,” it’s just better to buy a “bigger hammer” and NOT a bigger powder charge for your existing caliber. Just my opinion.

[@danoneill2846]

Paul is not the only Pro that says that , Wilson Combat & the builders of many Guns ... read the book on your own gun. They built it , they should know .

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

@@danoneill2846 Exactly. And is the Underwood 124 +P+ Nosler HP going to perform better than say my 147gr Federal HST (standard pressure) load? I doubt it. There’s countless videos alone showing how awesome that round performs and with LESS RECOIL and LESS MUZZLE FLIP that some +P+ load. Like I said earlier, if I want “more powerful” (whatever that means) than traditional 9mm for example, I’ll carry my .357Sig, .38Super or 10mm guns. Now that’s moving “up” and I’ll still use “standard pressure” loads in those calibers as well. 🤩

[@billb410]

@@colt10mmsecurity68 The faster you push a projectile the more expansion and the less penetration you will get. When a given manufacturer like Federal works up a load the bullet design is tuned to perform at the velocity the round is made to produce in a given barrel length. Most hyper velocity rounds either lack penetration or disintegrate on impact or both. That is why many like the Speer Gold Dot as they have a wide range of velocities they will expand in yet stay together when pushed hard. If I can find GD's I always go +P to ensure expansion. +P helps make up for shorter barrel lengths to ensure proper expansion. Underwood does lots of testing so their stuff should be good to go in most cases. Slow moving heavy for caliber stuff like 230gr 45 ACP should be steered clear of as they many not expand reliably.

[@DanTheWolfman]

P.S. underwood is in communication w me and tested one of those we are just trying to connect to discuss. Also, the more .40 Sam tests the better round it seems for LE purposes IF they had all adopted pistols designed for it such as p2000 like CBP adpoted, Sig 229, or even 96A1s not 9mm lightweight guns w a different barrel.

[@texasbeast239]

But DoD decided they wanted everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink thrown into their new duty sidearm, and S&W's pistol is decidedly sink-free, so...

[@boedude8496]

the cz75 is used by so many leo and military outside the u.s. for a reason. would have allowed for full power ammo w/o the issues of polymer frames, especially with the 40

[@SuperD00D]

@@boedude8496I shoot full power 135 gr .40 s&w in my Glock 23 Gen 5 without issue so far. There’s no warning on it. That shit is like 608 ft lbs from that 4” barrel, 589 from a 3.4”, and 675 from a 4.9” 96A1 Do you think I should stop? I’ve done 80 rounds with no issues so far Its the underwood 135 gr nosler

[@boedude8496]

i know next to nothing glock, but if loaded with longshot those are legit numbers for spec loads. that being the case i would think it should be ok, just regular pressures. also don't know which powder uwood uses, but no warnings almost says ok, but at the top of ok?

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Surprised & disappointed with the 45. Great results in the 9 & 40.

[@DanTheWolfman]

WHOA! WELL, Great news about the 9mm & .40 . BUT DEAR UNDERWOOD, I love you guys BUT...I would like to be able to Exchange these .45 Nosler rounds for some others (either 9mm plus p plus BONDED or the 185 plus P Nosler which expanded huge in Gun Sam's earlier testing protocol but only 12" comparison by his estimates...PLZ send me some as well as some to him to retest in newer protocol to see if can pass with both MDF and without PlZ). They were bought for carry and ARE LISTED as DEFENSIVE Rounds on your website and I now need to use other .45 loads from other manufacturers now. I'm not sure how a Nosler at near 1000 fps doesn't expand in either whether using mdf or not. You have a .45 GAP Bonded but no longer .45 ACP Bonded is it just the inability to get Bonded GD's right now?

[@GunSam]

What's funny, is Underwood would probably send you a box for free if you complained. A few years ago I had issues with their 9mm+P Xtreme Defender, I never complained but they saw my video and offered to send me a couple new boxes.

[@DanTheWolfman]

​ I literally just sent an email hoping to get some of the 185 plus P so you could retest to see if it meets standards in newer better protocol so I have something to carry since I now need to unload mags, and/or the 124 plus p plus Bonded since we know those work.

[@GunSam]

@@DanTheWolfman The 185+p is what I used in my test a week ago.

[@DanTheWolfman]

@@GunSam dohlt I need to rewatch now. I consider 12" w MDF and 14" w/o to be good to go minimums in clear gel though 15" mdf and 17-18" without is really ideal. The 185 plus p did great wish I had bought those instead. I HOPE I HEAR BACK FROM THE UNDERWOOD

[@billb410]

I just took a look at the Underwood website. They have a great selection of bullet types, weights etc. for 9mm but 40 and 45 nada. If Kevin does not have them in stock they must still be unobtainium. It would sure be nice to see testing with Speer Gold Dots as well as Hornady XTP's in all three calibers. Since I'm dreaming in two bullet weights for each.

[@fbweaver63]

your shooting keeps getting better and the info you share is in valuable.

[@wreckagevic]

9mm is my primary but .40 is my secondary caliber handgun round, both feed excellent with my M&P 2.0 compacts. Still very much relevant imo.

[@karlnash7105]

I like the .40. I agree that the rhythm is better. I joke that is "riding the hop." Great shooting👍

[@chrisgabbert658]

😊 your warming up with the 40 now 👍 and good to know not to waste my money on the 45 ammo. Take care

[@squadleader2010]

Heavy bullet weight shouldn't automatically mean heavily constructed. This is not a new problem for 230gr .45acp by the way, seems like someone would have solved it by now. I mean, if you need a solid, but not the FMJ profile 🤷‍♂️. It has good velocity. Nice work as usual, thank you!

[@2Aknight762]

Good info. I'm running the Underwood bonded 124 +P+ in my 9mm's currently.

[@SoWavvyy]

A lot of power not good enough penetration.

[@ronaldbarnes8302]

The 9’s and 40’s look pretty good, especially the 40’s. One would think the 45’s would have enough velocity to expand properly. Still prefer my standard pressure HST 147’s.

[@scottinohio701]

Its the bullet,HST in 45 are great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@WillownDocH]

Thanks for The Underwood Ammo tests!! Really appreciate this video and I 'm going to go with Underwood 9mm +p+ 124 grain Nosler for both Black Bear and Bi-Ped self defense. Thanks for letting Us know which JHP was loaded in the 9mm round as it looks like Underwood loads more than one maker's JHP projectiles.

[@richardthomas6602]

We got it. Nosler socks in 45acp. HST is king in 45.

[@anthonyguidas2012]

That’s what I carry 👍

[@krazyrican2009]

HST is pretty much king, period.

[@robertsims9201]

Still take the 45. FNX 45 tactical is all I need. 15+1!!!

[@joshuagibson2520]

Thanks for the effort and hard work Sam. I hope KZbin is taking care of you.

[@frankhinkle5772]

That's pretty interesting. I'm always looking for alternative carry ammos in case I can't find HST or Gold Dot.

[@YellowHammer26]

Thanks for your work Sam 👍👍

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching

[@spaceranger3728]

Good marksmanship with that plate.

[@DinoNucci]

40 is the correct answer vs human sized questions

[@tpatrick6902]

I want to thank you for your work. Excellent analysis again. I follow your recommendations.

[@GunSam]

Thank you.

[@Lucas12v]

Good tests. Underwood has now switched the 45 load to a different projectile. Hopefully this new one performs better.

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

PS… love your twins! M&P 2.0 5” FDE in 9 AND 40! I’m envious!!! I just have the 9’s. 5” FDE and black 4.25”.

[@nickfederico]

Ditch the darn denim on those second shots! I would like to know if the denim is causing the failure to expand. And who the hell is walking around with four layers of denim??

[@willo7734]

Cool video. I like your new accuracy testing protocol with the point shooting. Sad that the 45 was so poor. I had always kinda thought that 1000 fps would guarantee expansion with 45 but I guess not.

[@TheRealZJE313]

What!!!!! But look at all that damage and no expansion.now just imagine if it would have expanded.so 45 is still KING

[@SuperD00D]

@@TheRealZJE313bruh it did pretty bad damage for not expanding lol. I’ve seen tons of .380’s that didn’t expand and 9mm and .40 fmj’s that look like a 3,000 fps 55gr 5.56 wound channel from tumbling lol. And that shit seems to happen like 50% of the time

[@danoneill2846]

In 45 acp some 230 is good , I would favor 185 & 200 gr JHPs . In 40 S&W 150 , 155 & 165 gr mid range ammo , depenting on the gun . A Ruger revolver can take a little more . In 9mm 115 gr & 124 gr some +p .. not too much . Best to stay with mid range ammo that works.. Like Win Wt Box , Horn Crit Def , Gold dot & some others . Some strong guns can take a little more .

[@danoneill2846]

Win wt box did well in many tests , Sam , Paul & this guy kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIe0f32lpJVrl5I

[@828enigma6]

I like medium weight rounds. They go fast enough to expand decently and enough mass for reasonably deep penetration. Back when I was into handloading, I liked 140 gr 357 magnum loaded with H110, 18.4 gr if I recall correctly. Don't recall velocity. Qualified with it so I could carry it on duty. The other deputies said it wouldthrow flame 18" out the barrel, and, if prone, would raise dust around me 48"" around. Never felt under gunned .

[@danoneill2846]

@@828enigma6 With H110 ( same as Win 296 ) that would be a great round out of a rifle , slow powder gets all the power a 16-18 " rifle can give .

[@danoneill2846]

Here is Sams Test of Win Wt Box 9mm 115 gr JHP , I point this out because many like to dis on WT BOX as Cr@p , out of a short barrel it did great @ a great price .. better than some high $$ ammo . start @ 12 : 45 for the hybred meat / jell test . kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWi0h5ughdiFfNU

[@billb410]

@@danoneill2846 I think most dislike WWB because its dirty and abrasive as hell. As long as you do not mind cleaning more often and some more wear on your firearm all the power to you.

[@richd5025]

Itching to get a 1911 45acp. Probably will be a Christmas gift to me.🎅

[@grizz474]

Those darn safeties, they always get in the way! I have a bunch of pistols.....not one has a safety. Okay, except for my stunningly beautiful Stainless Ruger MKII .22 Standard, that's just the way they come. 😃

[@GunSam]

I was shooting my M&P Shield EZ and the first shot fired, next shot all I did was squeeze harder and the safety went on. I think it has to do with my hands. I tried on XL gloves at a store today and I couldn't get them on. I think my hands are bigger than I realize.

[@andywilson8698]

Another great test 👌!!!

[@NightHowl86]

I'm a .357 guy love my Sp101 3" barrel it's a little tank and my S&W model 66 made in the early 70's 4" barrel. But I have 2 .40's a S&W m&p .40c and a Beretta 96A1 and I can honestly say if your a person that shoots a .357 mag well there is something about it that makes you shoot a .40 s&w well. It's weird I know but I think there is something to it. Maybe that's something you could look into in the future comparing recoil of a .40 S&W through a pistol and the recoil of a .357 mag in a 3" to 4" barrel revolver. Keep up the cool vidz, love them.

[@JesseLJohnson]

I don't really notice much difference in recoil if you compare 9mm to .40 with the same size pistol like a 19 and 23. I don't think .357 is bad either unless you are talking a J Frame. Shooting hot .357 in a snubbie is a bit much. Its not bad but its not something I would want to shoot much of I would run .38 at the range for the most part.

[@roberthancock2563]

The 230gr. Winchester PDX1 .45acp loads expand pretty good for what I've seen.

[@biggunshandguns3687]

Another very good test with some interesting results. I can't believe the 45 acp at 100fps won't expand. Perhaps nobler just builds target bullets and sells the as defensive bullets. I think you should sell your glock perfection and pick up a m and p in 45 acp. I think it would be interesting to see if having the same gun in three calibers has a impact on your accuracy. Not that you don't shoot the glock very well. I think you shoot a glock quite well. Thanks for a great video and all the hard work you do. And as always you make learning fun

[@GunSam]

Thanks. I am not sure if I can get an M&P in a 5".

[@biggunshandguns3687]

@@GunSam that's a good point I believe they only come in a 4.5inch barrel. I had forgot about that but I still think you would enjoy it. I had one and got weak and sold it to a friend. I would like another

[@magickaldood]

I would like to see the 155gr xtp 40 s&w load from Underwood tested, if you have the opportunity.

[@biggunshandguns3687]

The best way to get Sam to text a specific round you are interested in is to send the ammo to him. If your not willing to do that then you should test the ammo yourself. I really doubt Sam has enough disposable income to run out and buy all the ammo his viewers want tested

[@jasonroberts9357]

Great video as always brother! Thanks for the information!

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching!

[@joemorganeatmyshortschannel]

looks like a good hard hitting set of rounds

[@dwaynewalker986]

I don't care what the F.B.I. says, two holes for whatever you shot to bleed out of is better than one . Great video and thank you.

[@danoneill2846]

If you get expansion I would agree , still don't want to hit any friendlys . I have seen 3 deer I shot with 3 different Big bore guns/ rounds .. any person " would THINK " would hit them hard ?? It killed em with one shot to the heart & they ran a long way . This is the same type ammo / guns , people say are good for bears ?? In the 3 cases the bear would have had lots of life left to get me before he died , he would be pissed !! I am all for H Ps that work , or A frame type bullets for the big stuff .

[@danoneill2846]

That 45 may still open in a perp ?? And if it didn't , I think he would be off his game .

[@dwaynewalker986]

@@danoneill2846 I obliterated the bottom half of a bucks' heart....it piled up after 20-25 yards. I also follwed a blood trail for about 300 yards before I lost it in an outcropping of scrim shale. For my part ..... as many holes I can make the better, and the bigger they are the better

[@danoneill2846]

@@dwaynewalker986 What bullets ?? The 2 that were the most surprising were 12 ga Sabot ( hour glass ) slug from 30 ft , ran about 75 yds & 44 rifle , full power soft tips from 50 yds .. it ran 50 yds . Both perfect heart shots , side to side . The 44 rifle was the last ( never again ) I have seen this enought , I knew it would drop , I just thought it would be faster . I will only use H Ps in 44 & soft spire point & SST type 308s . I took a few with basic 308 bullets , Power points ?? they did fine . The SSTs are like a bolt of lightning for deer .

[@dwaynewalker986]

@@danoneill2846 the heart shot was Blazer 200 gr. jhp@ 1600 out of a Ruger Super Blackhawk 10 1/2" ported barrel. (the one I lost was .223 out of a Mini-14

[@TheKentuckyPatriot]

Awesome stuff as always brother!!

[@GunSam]

Thank you.

[@828enigma6]

Doesn't appear any of these have much muzzle flip, which is surprising. I became impressed with the 40 Smith when coerced into carrying it as a deputy sheriff. Dont care for the 180gr load we were issued, but it is what it is. Much prefer 155-165 loads. Had the option of 9mm +P, but muc b preferred the 40.

[@johnryan6658]

You had a perfect match up in the last test. Right down to the sectional density, but not this time. What happened? You should have done 147 gr for the 9mm.

[@robertboyd8364]

Man you are so right he use heavy on all the rest of them they should have used heavy on that one

[@vlogfriendsutopia]

PWC FOR ALL LOADS IN VOLUME: 9mm - 5.51 cubic inches 40S&W - 6.2 cubic inches 45 ACP - 4.14 inches Truly disappointing when a specific load doesn't expand. Looks like it's back to the drawing board for this one. Especially when good 45 ACP ammo can expand as low as mid 700 hundreds or lower.

[@redfaux74]

I miss the Juggernaut. But good video. I have all 3 and I love them all.

[@wemcal]

Great video, I just don’t use 180gr .40s/w... there are too many better grains for .40 out there... Im loaded with underwood .40 at 135gr getting 1400 velocity and energy 588lbfrom the muzzle stated on the box also I have underwood 165gr the box states velocity at 1200 and energy at 528lb... I only use the 180 at the range... I do have 9mm +p that’s 115gr with 1250 velocity and rates 400lbs of energy ...

[@GunSam]

Thanks.

[@Fudmottin]

I really don't get why those 45s didn't expand. One thing's for sure. The exit wounds would be nasty!

[@N238E]

Can we get some tests on Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman for us Alaska viewers? Thanks!

[@bobcatforever3485]

Thanks, Good interesting video. Take care.

[@oakland002]

At my local store , 9mm are pretty hot so it’s harder to find in stock , 40 and 45 is abundant , glad I choose the 45 for my Kriss vector , I could have chosen the 10mm but that is way too rare , plus the price is high too

[@stevenbrown5438]

Actually 10mm is everywhere and no more expensive than .45acp

[@StevenRogers-hw9dj]

@@stevenbrown5438 GOOD 10mm is pretty hard to find, but it's out there. Most of the mainstream manufacturers load it like a moderately warm .40 S&W.

[@ratagris21]

Good testing and presentation Sam. ♠️🎩☯️

[@GunSam]

Thanks.

[@mdd1963]

09:24 that .45 ACP load just plain sux, not even expanding into gelatin at almost 1000 fps? Might as well use FMJ then.

[@GunSam]

While I agree it sucks, it's not the same an an FMJ. While we got 26" penetration in plain gel, if it were a straight FMJ at the same power level, it would exit the entire setup, over 35".

[@SwampNiggaVideos]

Great stuff ty

[@paulscountry456]

That nine is as hot as most factory 357 sig...

[@eddiearchuleta615]

Not from a 4.5-5 inch barrel even factory gold dot or hst will be 1400-1450 FPS 357 sig factory load

[@paulscountry456]

@@eddiearchuleta615 gold dots from Speer ,personal protection or duty will chrono 1350 to a little over 14 from my 226 and could be considered a medium energy,most range ammo comes in much less and is what is sold the most,of course some factory boutique defence rounds can produce nearly 700 ft lbs.The plus p plus Underwood extreme defender in 9mm has more energy than 357 sig target ammo from full size.

[@eddiearchuleta615]

Yours must chino that low mine doesn’t 125 grain hst goes 1450 in my g31 and 1340-1350 in my g33 3.5 inch and the Speer is like 20 FPS less than the federal

[@slash19961]

Loves these tests keep up the great work ! With these more powerful semi auto rounds how would you feel they would stack up again the older power houses like .357 and .44 when loaded properly?

[@GunSam]

Well, considering when loaded properly I have had my 4" revolvers give 800 ft lbs in .357 Mag and 1,000 ft lbs in .44 Mag, so it's not quite a magnum. The one upside is comparing this to a .357 Mag in similar power, this 9mm has less felt recoil.

[@danoneill2846]

@@GunSam Loaded properly for what ?? The great thing about them is you can load from mild to wild , full power is not always the best choice . Sam you did a video of what you use & many were NOT full power .. like the 44 .. it was properly loaded for your needs .

[@slash19961]

@@GunSam yeah i saw your video on it ! It interesting to see how modern semi auto pistol rounds can perform similar to a lite .357 magum load with todays bullets and power in terms of energy ftlbs.

[@ibpositivemostly7437]

Cool video thanks.

[@saltcreekammo]

There’s nothing Underwood can do to get the bullet to expand. That’s all on Nosler and their engineers and press operators.

[@danoneill2846]

When I hand load I mostly use Sierra , some store bought ammo looks like Sierra . If I knew who used Sierra , I would try to buy that . Remington also makes huge H Ps , like Speer 200 gr 45 acp flying ash tray loads . I mostly see Remington golden Saber , they do OK , I don't care if they frag , as long as they do the job .

[@danoneill2846]

Some rounds that work on the street , don't do well in jell , this could be one ... it sure has the Vel

[@xxxYYZxxx]

I wonder if this bullet isn't for the 45 Super (ie, harder alloy) but loaded in the ACP?

[@richardcolligon4277]

Great test and shooting! The more I watch I'm starting to become a 9mm and.40 S&W fan. I was never a 9mm fan until recently as I see more testing. The ftlbs of energy has gone up a lot in recent year's and they expand nicely and the same for the 40. All year I've been hearing that they were going to stop making the 40, but I keep seeing new pistol's chambered in it. A lot of competition shooter's use .40 in their 2011's. Even tanfoglio defiant stock master which came out is using the.40. I'm going to really have to look more into both, especially since we may become a free state soon. But the Communist State's are already looking into small law's to stop our freedom.

[@billb410]

If you need major power factor for competition it's much easier to do with a .40 than 9mm. Major power factor in USPSA is 165. I have seen load data for 9mm 147gr XTP's at over 1200 FPS using Vihtavuori VV-3N38. So 475 foot pounds at the muzzle and power factor of 176 so it can be done. Underwood has a load that comes close to the VV-3N38 load data at 451 foot pounds at the muzzle and power factor of 172. I have the components to do it but never got around to it. You can buy 9mm 115gr Underwood that's 500 foot pounds at the muzzle 161 power factor but I like heavy for caliber for SD. Of course you would never use Underwood ammo in competition unless you were made of money or nuts.

[@joshdiehl8737]

These days with modern HP ammo you get almost the same amount of ft lbs out of 9mm and they expand really well with the advantage of cheaper practice ammo and more magazine capacity.

[@scottroder5516]

Nice shooting. Great video

[@bobjarrard]

I will stay with HST heavy for caliber in 9mm and 40 S&W. Gold Dots and Golden Sabers and all the rest have some nice loads, also the Winchester Rangers but you have to set a play level and try to not jump around all the time. I wish Corbon still loaded their old115 gr HP' +P+ in 38 Special, even better if they loaded it with HST bullets. Thanks - Bob in Nevada

[@alexsmart5452]

HST are the standard by which all other loads are judged(and most fail). 180gr HSTs are perfect.

[@DanTheWolfman]

MDF 9mm 124 +p+ 11.75" .628 (please measure more Avg main part not to a dangle Sam) =3.64" Solid between CD & HST though less penetration for through arm shots) .40 180 gr. 13.5".73 MAX giving app .67 Avg Expansion=4.76 " Better than Critical Duty but not as good as hst/gold dots. Since MDF Protocol Sam it would be GREAT if you would Spreadsheet all load MDF results w/ Grain Velocity ME Pen Avg Expansion and Adj Volume Tissue Crush! I've done a lot of work tonight and my MAJOR DETAILED VID Comes Saturday. Also Sam, Please Retest Underwood 124 plus p plus Bonded GD through MDF from 4" and 5"..I can't find it or it was before MDF protocol.

[@nstied]

Clearly.40 is outperforming 9mm +p+ here. Considering most people carry 9mm in standard pressure or +p, it’s not really up for debate. The people who say .40 and 9mm perform the same are incorrect. That’s not to say 9mm is a poor performer, just that .40 is still more powerful, with greater chances for penetration. Whether that extra power is worth the downsides is debatable, but anyone who collapses their performance to “the same” is just simply wrong.

[@alexsmart5452]

plus if you go and watch other ammo reviews(TNoutdoor9, Scubaoz, Shootingthebull410) 40sw almost always expands(165 and 180s) extremely well, and penetration is very good to excellent(rarely under 12" and almost never over 18"). HST 180s and Ranger T(165) and Ranger Bonded(PDX in 180) are almost always perfect in 40, very very rarely failing. Its a perfect round for two-legged threats.

[@terrymattson3587]

+p+ppppppppp just give me the .40 sw 180 🤠 great video

[@billblue4710]

180 is too much for 40. 155 is ideal for human defense.

[@alexsmart5452]

@@billblue4710 there are a dozen videos(TNoutdoor9, ScubaOZ, shootingthebull410 are the best) that all show time and again that (HST, Ranger bonded, Ranger T, Gold Dots, Golden Sabers)180gr expands, and pens better than the lighter loads. Ranger T 165 is the only exception which did fantastic in a couple of reviews.

[@ethanmac639]

9mm is for women and sheeple the ideal cartridge caliber is the .40 s&w, but 180gr was always too heavy, great for 10mm auto though, between 135gr minimum and 165gr maximum parameters with 155gr/150gr being the best bullet weight for the .40 s&w!

[@billblue4710]

I like the comments about 40 but the 9 comment is a bit ignorant. You can’t win them all.

[@ethanmac639]

@@billblue4710 9mm paraplegic 10mm = too much 9mm = not enough

[@mikestackz854]

@@ethanmac639 you have no idea what you’re talking about

[@ethanmac639]

@@mikestackz854 9mm = not enough🤏 10mm = too much💪 .40 s&w = just right👌

[@aceykerr8752]

Something I don't understand about the +p+ rounds coming from the higher end companies is why they short change 40s&w. Underwood, Norma, Hornady; all make defense ammo lines where they seem to try and even out the energy differences between calibers by upping the velocities of 9mm and 45acp but lowering rhe velocity of 40s&w. It's very strange. I really like Ficochi's 165gr JHP for that reason. Seems to be the only readily available 40s&w hollow point on the market with reasonable velocities.

[@MFPWM2010]

I wish you would use standard pressure 9 mm or +P. These would be more common for the average civilian. Anything +P+ is too rare to find and doesn’t accurately represent what most people will be using.

[@TheRealZJE313]

Wow al that damage and no expansion.just imagine if it would have expanded.That y I run Winchester Ranger Ammo and Federal HST 230gr hollow and the Underwood extreme penetrator as my carry Ammo

[@ryanranard5187]

Please test the 147gr +p+ from underwood

[@GunSam]

This is close kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYLYdJKNgMeAia8

[@xxxYYZxxx]

Other 230g 45 ACP HP bullets expand at standard-pressure velocities below 850fps. These Noslers are +P @ 1000fps. The 185g Nosler 45 ACP @1050fps in Sam's last video performed like a champ. What gives, Nosler?

[@philipfreeman72]

I havent seen you try 200 gr 45 auto .

[@joecantu2920]

Doesn’t the 45 acp perform adequately with FMJ BALL? A 45 cal hole through you can’t be good. I like all the calibers. Aim shoot hit.

[@texasbeast239]

Other videos expose weaknesses with Noslers in Underwood 10mm too. Hornady XTPs and Speer GDs are more reliable penetrators and expanders. I don't own Nosler anything.

[@paulscountry456]

Hunting round cup core ,soft lead meant to expand at range.

[@ridiculousfishr9812]

It’s amazing how often I see a semi auto have a failure on this channel. Do the other channels edit them out or do you just have bad luck with them? I love the content.

[@GunSam]

This issue is that most channels shoot a bunch of FMJ ammo which feeds easy from low recoil and rounded nose. Nearly all my shooting in semi autos is hollow point ammo, always different ammo.

[@ariesmight6978]

@@GunSam By only using the defensive type of ammunition. That you know is what firearm viewers, mostly watch them for. Demonstrates just how honest you are Gun Sam. Just like Paul Harrell.

[@henriquefern67]

​@@GunSam are hollow points bullets more prone to jamming than fmj or thats because those are pretty hot loads?

[@mgsharnhorst]

Why +p+ for the 9mm ?

[@swedeson6188]

Great video! But why do you messure with the the "Jacket" wing? Imo its not relevant, whats relevant is the Bullets diameter.

[@hunterman600cc]

Do we think the SUPER would have enough pop to open that thing up?

[@louv4437]

The 9mm should of been 147gr since you picked heaviest for each the 124 is their middle so that’s equivalent to 165 in 40 and 200gr in 45

[@GunSam]

That's not really how it works in my opinion. Everyone knows that the 147 gr 9mm is the least powerful. In general I don't think anyone should use 147 gr for comparisons unless you want the 9mm to seem like it has .380 ballistics.

[@louv4437]

@@GunSam I agree I just meant if you were marching them by weight like you did in part 1 you picked each calibers lightest in this one you went heaviest besides 9mm. The most effective 40 round is the 155 and best 45 is 185

[@louv4437]

@@GunSam personally only two pistol rounds I trust my life with 10mm and 357 that’s it

[@justinassobieskis]

i hope you will test 45 acp + p 230 gr and 45 super 230 gr :)

[@iSkatealot4life]

Do a third with the same ammo like blazer 115 180 230 and with just regular fmj non +p+p+++++p haha

[@tommyj1811]

And that is why I carried 255 grain hard cast in my .45 caliber Glock in Alaska. I'm gonna break something.

[@Leverguns50]

Interesting

[@SuperD00D]

There’s no reason 9mm should have more energy than .40 especially from Underwood lol the 135 grain load muzzle energy is 588 fpe

[@steemerxaxon1643]

40 RULES!!!! The only thing I would EVER put above the 40 is the Ole 10mm

[@billb410]

99 % of box store 10mm is nothing more than .40 S&W in a longer case. .40 S&W is just 10mm FBI loads.

[@SuperD00D]

Very odd for Underwood to come under velocity (barely, but still) out of a 5” barrel. The 135 gr nosler hits velocity out of a 3.4” Glock 27, the 1400 fps and 589 ft lbs. Idk if you’re trying to keep the energy similar by saying “fair”, but we all know 180 gr .40 is the weakest, even from Underwood, so it’s not really “fair” to run Underwood +p+ against 180 gr lol

[@scottinohio701]

Federal HST and Gold dot are the best bullets for expansion and penetration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@GunSam]

I am testing those again sometime soon along with Critical Duty and Winchester Defender, all in 124 gr+P and all through a windshield into gel.

[@jacobpetersen5662]

Expansion or not, the 45 is a BEAST!

[@northernninety7]

Not sure why Underwood uses soft Nosler rounds that are known for fragmenting.

[@MysticWhiteLotus]

Good One....🙂....

[@876mpr]

Nosler should be ashamed at that .45 230’s complete lack of performance, especially considering any other loading with that bullet will be lower velocity yet.

[@Dixoncider1973]

9mm rules

[@3Pillers]

👍

[@boys2meme459]

Looks like that 45 just isn’t moving fast enough for that bullet. Must need more like 1100-1200 FPS. Bet it would be a great bullet choice for a 45 super loading.

[@nokoolaid]

The nosler is the wrong bullet for the 45. Needs more velocity to expand. A HST or GD at that velocity would be stupid huge in expansion.

[@GunSam]

I have used HST and Gold Dot. Basically the same results. The problem is that nothing in 230 gr seems to expand in my tests.

[@GunSam]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/enrdfpmvoK-gpK8

[@nokoolaid]

@@GunSam Yet there are videos where they do, well too, nearly an inch.

[@mattpatterson9128]

I'm going try and borrow some money so i can buy a new .45, and a new .357 Magnum, lost what i had deep sea fishing you know? And i want some underwood .45 ACP.

[@petergrant9259]

Was the S&W M&P 9mm 2.0 in FDE their submission for the Military to replace the Beretta ? If so it is a much better gun then Sigs that won. At least in your vlogs it has been a tack driver and with no failure to feed all types of ammo. When it comes to buying defense ammo for the .45 acp the Federal HST in Gel tests outperforms all others in the past 10 years.

[@AlaskanBallistics]

Yes but they had failures in the military trials .

[@AlaskanBallistics]

I had to send mine back for failure to reset the trigger during double taps

[@Gieszkanne]

"it is a much better gun " bs!

[@AlaskanBallistics]

@@Gieszkanne than a sig p320? Maybe they both had their issues. Glock or the m9a3 were much better guns

[@krazyrican2009]

I’ve never had a malfunction with my M&P after thousands of rounds and it’s a Gen 1. That being said, being part of the directorate who was responsible for fielding the Sigs, they had nothing but problems and had to stop fielding multiple times to address the failures. One of them being broken strikers.

[@brucemoriarty9964]

Fun Fact even the Nazis went from the 9 mm to a 30 cal. The last 8 months of the war to the 45 cal. Doubts ? Check it out.

[@lakakl3787]

My 9 is a 22cal ruger I use for snakes and plinking. My 40s&w I use for fun and self defense. I carry a 41mag for meat eating animals. If I were in battle, definitely would want the 45.

[@Eric-rm1if]

It ruined the test the moment you brought non-standardized +p+ ammo to the table. +p has a standard with limited cartridges. +p+ is a wildcat round.

[@goranmalnar5172]

👍As always!!

[@timclaus8313]

9mm +P+ is not really fair as no gun manufacturers rate their guns as safe for +P+ ammo.

[@crusiethmaximuss]

That .45ACP load did what 9mm usually does and that's surprising... Loved the performance across the board, but the lack of expansion from that .45cal is a no go for me.

[@Acheco]

9 can fail to expan but a .45 is still bigger then an expand 9.

[@SoWavvyy]

@@Acheco Heavier than a non expanded or expanded 9mm obviously. But a expanded 9mm is wider than a 45 not expanded. 0.628 inches expanded 9mm the 45 didn't expand and we all know 45 is 0.450 inches. the 9mm made a bigger hole.