🎆A Very Special Ballistic Test🎆 Old School .44 Special VS .38 Special Lead Round Nose

Testing out the Remington lead round nose classic Special ammunition in .38 Special and .44 Special. The .38 Special is a Remington UMC 158 gr LRN rated at 755 FPS and the .44 Special is a Remington Wheelgun Performance 246 gr LRN also rated at 755 FPS. I do a 10% Clear Ballistics ballistic test as well as some other special tests! Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221

[@neubert500]

I am SO GLAD to see you do this test! When I began my career in 1976 the 38 spec 158 gr rn lead was what EVERYBODY at the agency carried. I was an outcast with my Charter Arms 44 spec and the 246 gr rn lead. Excellent test. I do admit a desire to see you repeat the test with Elmer Keith's beloved (and mine too!) 158 gr and 240 gr lead semi-wadcutters! Thank you Sir!

[@aaronhysong405]

U know what ur talking about I thought I was the only one that knows about the semiwaddcuters I shoot 245 at the moment it's as hot as I can get it Keith help my loads I think I'm hitting as hard as I can safely but they are so hot after 5 round the gun starts to over heat and it starts sticking lol😊

[@SuperSneakySteve]

Some people act like these bullets aren't deadly but I think today you proved that they are.

[@Fudmottin]

Especially if you have gas.

[@steelgila]

Totally agree. You could definitely keep somebody very busy with either of these.

[@LA_Commander]

I hope this proves that you don't need a super high speed round to kill and maim. Because you don't. Look at the muskets from the Civil War. They fired a very slow round but the bullet was huge and would destroy arms and legs and kill with no problem. The 45 ACP is not a fast round at all but the huge slug provides great stopping power. That 44 special with a huge 246 grain bullet will definitely do the job!

[@buckshot4428]

You are correct that a slow slug will kill, but I assure you that a faster one will usually do a better job.

[@LA_Commander]

@@buckshot4428 Well, if the perp is dead, are you saying a faster round will make him deader?

[@houseofpain3580]

ROCK HARD ABS DEFEAT SLOW ROUNDS!

[@GarciaVital]

For sure! The 246 grain is more than enough to make someome your good little cuckold

[@joeblack363]

Most of the deaths in the Civil war were due to poor sanitation and lack of medical technology, had that war happened at another time in the future the deaths would be significantlyyyy lower.

[@PassivePortfolios]

The tumbling shows they are underrated as self defense rounds. They are also cheaper and easier to shoot than premium defense ammo. The .38 LRN is easier to find than the .44 LRN but the later costs more but has better stopping power. All depends on which revolver is available, you can't go wrong with either one of these classic rounds. Thanks for an excellent test!

[@GunSam]

Yeah, the original dum-dum type bullet was in the same class as a hollow point. These happen to be too short to reliably be designed to tumble, but it's a nice feature for our New Jersey carries that can't carry HP or dum-dum ammo.

[@stanshelton923]

Finally somebody is testing the old school rounds. Everybody wants to do plus P or some nasty hollowpoint. Thank you for making this video.

[@joehebert901]

Good show. I love the test. I am very impressed with the .44 special. It's a great personal defense round.

[@GunSam]

Thanks!

[@stansbornak8116]

Who here misses seeing Sam covered in bologna?

[@CeltKnight]

The man puts three hits on target touching while casually "just flinging" his shot rapid fire. Lads and lasses, this man can SHOOT! LRN were often the rounds I saw in my local, small-town PD's bullet loops as a kid. I like these nostalgic looks at "antiquated" bullet designs. Cool video as always.

[@GunSam]

lol, I feel i'm average. I missed some

[@johnnorman7708]

Ditto on round nose lead .38 Special being alive and well in police service in the 1970s. Saw a lot of it here and there with law enforcement people back then. My Dad wasn't in law enforcement but was friends with several people that were. My Dad bought round nose ammo for his .38 revolvers too.

[@timrobinson6573]

Just here to leave a thumb up. I'll watch it in the morning.

[@johnnorman7708]

The old 38 Special load was both more and less depending how you look at it. It was accurate and penetrated pretty good. If I recall some of the old stats, it was about a 55% one shot stopper.

[@leemitchum7498]

Since I've started watching your channel I've collected four revolvers and an entire reloading setup. I also have been enjoying the hobby of testing rounds. Unfortunately I lost all of it in a boating accident but it was fun while it lasted keep up the good work

[@onedaycloser2death224]

Do you remember where?

[@Gieszkanne]

You had 4 revolvers and a reloading setup on a boat?

[@jfannin6036]

I was with Lee and can confirm this. They now reside in the murky depths of Lake Minnetonka

[@leemitchum7498]

This Chanel should be bigger

[@houserental5424]

@@Gieszkanne he is being facetious, the “boating accident” is to report lost irrecoverable guns to confute the possibility of a future gun grab

[@jw-sigp2258]

Thanks for doing a test on the good old stuff. I really enjoyed this

[@YellowHammer26]

Thanks Sam, it's good to know that these old school rounds can still get the job done. I thought they both did excellent. 👍👍

[@-slaughtercult-6476]

Interesting result. Even though the muzzle velocity of 44spl LRN was slower than 38spl, accuracy was better than I expected.

[@allensharp6876]

This is great timing because I just bought a Charter Arms Bulldog!

[@danoneill2846]

I used a lot of 200 gr SWC store bought in mine & some handloads . The 240 gr SWC hits right on & the 180 gr JHPs hit low , very accurate !!

[@plasticglock]

Sam, I watch your channel because its like getting to go shooting in the woods with one of my friends. At my age that doesn't happen much anymore. When that first propane bottle blew up it was awesome. I was laughing so hard I interrupted my wife's show she was watching. Then to hit the second one on the first shot?? That looked like a lot of fun man. When you are having fun, we are having fun. Thank you for making these videos buddy.

[@GunSam]

Thanks a lot!

[@KYGUNGUY]

Thank you sir. I have to get a 44 special now! I really enjoyed the “channel my inner Buffalo comment”. That guy amazes me how he can shoot. You are just as good.

[@willmclean4962]

Great video as always! Glad to see that the flooding didnt damage to much and has subsided quickly.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. I learned a few years ago to fence post my things down. I had tables and target holders in 2016 and they vanished in a 2017 flood. Rebuilt and pinned down!

[@mkshffr4936]

Cool I be first. looking forward to this. Nice consistency. Both performed pretty well considering their reputation as weak. The 44 seems pretty close to the classic 45acp hardball.

[@dangerman007]

Love the propane! These rounds performed very well for old school. Perfect penetration and decent damage. These are a better option in some cases than a high-tech round that will under/over penetrate or not expand at all. Especially the .44 special: the bullet diameter of .43 will make a bigger whole to start out with and tumbling makes it very effective. I love how you address momentum, something that is overlooked. Lower recoil is a plus. As always, shot placement is key.

[@chuckmccullough5382]

Truly enjoyed your presentation

[@ronaldarand5085]

I enjoy your channel, it’s informative, entertaining, and a joy to watch. Thanks for testing some old person , like me 75, ammo

[@thegundungeon]

Awesome video. Always loved the 44 special. Your gel block table is inspiring me to build something similar lol

[@GunSam]

Thanks. It's good to have up high! All I got is two 2x4's together to equal 7" wide by 36" long

[@jw-sigp2258]

Well more proof that 44 special is incredibly accurate. You shot that 44 special ammo very well at 75 yards. I love seeing how far I can hit with my 44 special. I sometimes take it out to 100 yards with my Taurus 441. Thanks again for doing this video and giving 44 special some more screen time.

[@marcthomas2482]

"Channel my inner Buffalo"... Ha Ha! Something we wish we all could do! Great video as always Gun Sam and very interesting results. Thanks!

[@GunSam]

We all can. I don't got that Dixie DNA but with enough practice I can do alright.

[@MrBuckeye63]

.429 isn’t gonna shrink … I guess I felt forced to say that 😊 Two of my favorite calibers.. I carry both often .. but shorter tubes I have quite a bit of 158gr RN .. My dad carried it in his S&W 36 with a 3inch barrel .. and carried it once upon a time in the early 80’s in a old Rossi .. I have some 44spl 240gr LSWC that I wouldn’t hesitate to carry..

[@bushman979]

Definitely cool to see reactive targets keep up the great work glad the flooding went down quick

[@bobcatforever3485]

Another good video. Great distance shooting. I actually bought some .44 Specials a while back because there were no .44 Mags to be had. Take care.

[@GunSam]

Thank you. I have seen them for a long time, but this is the fist time I bought them. The prices are outrageous on them, about twice that of .38 Special, and we know .38 Special is a lot now days.

[@bobcatforever3485]

@@GunSam I agree, I think I paid right at $50 for the .44 Spl, but I wanted them for a YT video to compare to the .44 Mgs I had on hand, so I bit the bullet and paid the price. Take care.

[@douggiek9]

Excellent review and you were having to much fun.

[@toolmakerbest1584]

I've had my Ruger .44 mag Super Blackhawk, 10.5' barrel for about 40 yrs. It was my metallic silhouette gun as well as a 6' Colt Python .357. That .44 can shoot just about anything I feed it, better than I can hold it. Great video, Sam! 👍👍

[@glennconway5639]

Very interesting results! Great comparison. I get exceptionally good accuracy and shoot ability out of my cast 44 special hand loads. Skeeter Skeleton got it right way back when!

[@biggunshandguns3687]

I've always had great accuracy with round nose bullets. Some even freakishly accurate. The down side is they don't usually penetrate in a straight line like the wfn bullets do. But for plinking or just having fun they are hard to beat. Thanks for another great video

[@jonclark8155]

That was pretty cool with the propane tanks. I’m glad you chose a safe distance. I have some Remington HTP’s in 158g +p LHP 38’s

[@joshuabriggs7114]

Love me some .44!

[@johnochicago8457]

Great Video Sam!!!

[@GunSam]

Thanks a lot!

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Very good test. Great demonstration. Interesting results as a whole. We have reloaded some home-cast 240 round nose in 44 special years ago. It was fun but not at all as accurate as yours. But low, low recoil. By the way I shot a Little propane tank like this @ 20ish yards at the bottom of a hill with a 44 magnum and it came spinning out of it's white cloud back at us like a rocket. Never again for me. Well done.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. I think what it is, is these were coming out of the gel at up to .432" which really gets that rifling. The .38 Special seemed odd, I figured i'd have seen at least .358" not .356"

[@kentwilliams3326]

Thanks so much for this test. My favorite cartridge since 1969 is the Remington .44 Special 246 grain RNL. Having spent 33 years in a federal law enforcement agency, shooting on their national pistol team and nine years as an academy firearms instructor I have fired more than one million rounds. But...the very most shooting fun I ever had was shooting this load in a S&W Model 29 4" at a 2 x 4 stuck in the ground at 25 yards. Each hit caused an EXPLOSION of wood chips like a blasting cap that had been inserted in the 2x4.

[@GunSam]

I recorded a video a year ago, but never released it as a lot of it was dumb, but I was 100 yard shooting with that .44 Special ammo. I was hitting non stop, but there was such a delay in time fired that I would think I missed, wait a full second then hear the impact.

[@danamorrow5352]

I love when you are shooting "stuff"! I want to get some lead round nose for my 38 snubbie.

[@shadowwolf2524]

The 158gr-LRN is my favorite 38 Special round.

[@Graydog-sx6le]

I’ve always been partial to the LRN. I appreciate the accuracy and reduced felt recoil. I can shoot it very accurately and consistently. It’s also very affordable and doesn’t beat up my guns. I don’t see it as a negative as a carry option since all of these apply. Thanks for the video.

[@locksbog4270]

Great stuff brother 👍😃✌️🇺🇸

[@GunSam]

Thanks

[@johnmikel5934]

Like the comparison. Great video

[@GunSam]

Thank you

[@robertwalker8453]

As always love your channel and the consistency of your testing methods. Also love the variety of calibers that you test, but what is most telling through your testing is that nearly any caliber of a firearm with the right bullet and load can be an effective means of self-defense. In other words, there are no “bad” calibers per se. Which means that there is something for everyone. Thanks.

[@alabamasmokeywilson6818]

Great video. I have a .38,I see it it is adequate with standard bullets. I really enjoyed the. 32 test you did I have 2 H&R .32s . A 733 and a 732 love them

[@danoneill2846]

When I got my first handgun a 357 Blackhawk 4 5/8" I shot lots of store bought reloads of RN Lead 38s & sold them back my cases . When I started in 44 , some RN , mostly MY handloaded 240 Gr SWCs .

[@GunSam]

I been reloading for 7 years, but not until like 6 months ago or less did I reload anything in .44. I may have to reload some more when I can. The guy at the gun store, when I bought this .44 Special ammo said "You know that's $70?". I was like, yeah that's what that ammo goes for. I'm in a unique position of earning the cost back here on KZbin, so i'm gonna buy it!

[@danoneill2846]

@@GunSam For a long time I used basic bevel based SWC , they were low cost & common . The issue is they lead a lot . I now know better & think the Flat based of any kind is better & softer is also better for special >> mid range hardness . I had leading running flat based Horn 44 SWCHP , I think I was running them too fast , they may be pure soft lead . Berry is low cost , kind of flat based or Hollow based plated & are not bad for the price if you don't over crimp them ( almost zero crimp OR crimp over the ojive like a 45 LC ) . No leading with Berry .

[@brittlanders351]

Excellent sir!

[@thealsatian4232]

Very good comparison. Thank you.

[@GunSam]

Thanks!

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Sometimes it just isn't necessary to always be pushing the velocity envelop higher and higher and higher. These low velocity loads are very pleasant to shoot, the recoil impulse is a "push" and so easy to deal with.

[@GunSam]

Yeah it was one of those things, I would say these loads were basically like 9mm and .45 ACP for recoil. Not a real noticeable difference for felt recoil, the only thing I noticed was more muzzle rise on the .44

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@GunSam Before all the racket of 2020 started ramping up, I ordered a good amount of reloads from a place in CA. 158 SWC running a rated about 750 fps from 4". They are so pleasant to shoot. Good amount of whack on impact, but very unintimidating and enough shove to know you're doing something.

[@GunSam]

@@exothermal.sprocket Before the pandemic I was on a Speer kick. I could get their 125 and 158 gr plated plinker HP's and TMJ's for about $12 per 100, $4 for 100 primers, so I was shooting clean ammo at $10 a box.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@GunSam Those were the times. If we can manage to throw out the regime and get some proper tribunals, we might be able to get back to that, and a lot better.

[@ibpositivemostly7437]

Cool video thanks.

[@tedberwick3186]

Ty

[@professorpewpuew]

11:22 Rare footage of Gun Sam as a happy man.

[@GunSam]

I saw a clip of something Paul Harrell did and he laughed for a second. I was like, what is...going on here? Like a different universe I saw for a second. lol

[@Fudmottin]

Hitting those propane tanks was pretty dang cool! I got a box of those 38 Special LRN (with the wheelhouse box) to get a feel for the recoil of the Keiths (when I get around to loading them). I've been letting things slip :(. Paul Harrell did a three part series on standard pressure 38 Specials. In part three, he shoots those LRNs you shot as well as some Buffalo Bore stuff. The "grandpa ammo" did OK according to him.

[@GunSam]

I feel I should tests these in the 2". I feel like I may have before, but looking back I don't really see much on them, so I should. Thinking about VS UMC 9mm for the short barrel.

[@onpsxmember]

@@GunSam But a few steps for the chronograph then. You really looked forward to this. How did you find the .44spl? Great job on the video and shooting.

[@Fudmottin]

@@GunSam What would be cool is the UMC 158gr LRN vs UMC 115gr JHP. Obviously the 9mm is going to have about 50% more muzzle energy. But you are also talking about traditional loads. Another old vs new thing. If you have any of the Buffalo Bore 20C left, that would be a cool wild card to throw in. ETA: All out of the short barrels.

[@michaellavaughnrobinson]

Thanks for doing this, like you said no test on the 246 lrn on here. I tend to like it due to the history and find myself carrying a ca bulldog loaded with it.

[@billdonnelly1134]

With those bullets recoil is much more manageable,which ends up more accurate for the average shooter like me. I was very impressed with the 44 spl, heavier bullet but acceptable penetration and recoil. Thanks for doing these video's and proving you don't need hand cannons to be effective foe defense, but to each their own. Well done.

[@jonlucas5521]

Great test. You remind me of me decades ago when I was doing all of the penetration tests in different caliberrs, but my tests were not nearly as nice as yours. I just had a clay bank, and wood rounds for penetration and expansion. Great job.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. I was doing that 30 years ago, but with .22's and deer rifles just digging out bullets from dirt and whatnot.

[@seangrover140]

Love the oldschool!

[@mattbrown5511]

I assume that the felt recoil was fairly tame due to the lower velocity. I'm using less powerful ammo for my S&W 686 due to some health issues. Lower recoil with adequate results is always a good thing.

[@Paladin1873]

I carried a 3" Charter Arms Bulldog in the late 70s. All I could find was the 246 grain RN lead load. Despite the anemic velocity, the recoil was stout out of that 19 ounce revolver. I presumed it was an effective round, but a few years later there was a nearby incident where a store clerk shot a suspect in the head with the same type gun and load. The perp sat down and surrendered. He was taken to the hospital, treated, and released into police custody. The projectile had struck his forehead and defected around it, leaving a large crease along his scalp and giving him a whopper of a headache. By comparison, Son of Sam (David Berkowitz) killed six people and wounded seven more using the same setup. These incidents convinced me to look for a better handgun and load.

[@sammyprestwood3182]

Either one of these rounds hits the heart the victim won't have to worry about anymore problems

[@lanedexter6303]

Wow, that takes me back! When I bought my first Charter Bulldog in the mid 70’s, that Remington 246 RNL was the only factory ammo I could find. Does that Remington bullet have a bit of a “skirt” on the base? I’m remembering back 45 years, but it sticks in my head. I tried various handloads, really liked a Winchester .433 Luballoy 240gr. gas check SWC over 7.2gr. Unique. Wish I could still find that bullet. Thanks for the video.

[@GunSam]

Yeah, there was a bit of concave shape at the base, but unlike a TMJ or HP where maybe there's a few hundred of an inch of flatness before the concave shape begins, the concave shape starts immediately and there's a very thin skirt.

[@lanedexter6303]

@@GunSam thanks, sounds like they haven’t changed much. That .44 would get the job done if you needed it.

[@stephen8433]

I carried Winchester Silvertip in my Charter Bulldog .44 Special. That is another gun I wish I had not traded.

[@lanedexter6303]

@@stephen8433 yep, had one in the 70’s, got another in mid 80’s, lost that in 2008 divorce. Time to get another.

[@GunSam]

@@stephen8433 I would love to test some of the .44 Special ammo that is out there like Silvertip, V-Crown and so on. I think ammo companies have put it all on the backburner to make 9mm, then .357/.38. From what I can tell the oddball calibers are only produced like once a year or something.

[@ratagris21]

Thanks for testing old school classics Sam! Still viable rounds just like flat points. I have a few of tgem in my inventory. 🎩♠🎱🎯🏁🌼🌸🏵💙💛🔱🌻🇺🇸🍀

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching!

[@ratagris21]

@@GunSam Yw

[@Rick-pk6bb]

I know that the 41 magnum guns an ammo are hard to come by, but I would like to see how they compared to other calibers

[@Amalgam67]

It's very interesting that you're getting such consistent performance with the old 158 grain LRN; tumbling and consistent 14.5 inch penetration.

[@DasDutchman56]

.38 Special 148 grain Lrn worked just fine for my Grand Dad who was a Cop back in the early 20th Century. I'm sure it will work for me too !

[@chrisgabbert658]

👍😊🎯especially with the 44 👍. I could use some they would be nice in my super Blackhawk 4 5/8 barrel .

[@MrPrinceofallsaiyan]

Very consistent rounds!

[@paulzollinger6343]

Like a Jr Paul Harrel. Thanks for the humble and accurate review. With your own style too.

[@GunSam]

I mean, I know Paul is 14 years older, but I been on youtube longer

[@paulzollinger6343]

Well then, like a Paul Sr :-)

[@thebluesrockers]

This video was awesome..I couldn't help but laugh when you jumped even though I'm sure I would have jumped too. You make me feel pretty confident about owning my little 38. with a 2" barrel. I'd rather own a 44 mag, but I don't think I could afford the ammo. the 38 isn't bad for target loads, but self defense rounds can be a little costly. But it's not like I buy those for target practice. Thanks for all your video's. I always enjoy watching your content. Peace..Joe

[@davenadell1239]

A very good and informative test. I wonder how the penetration would compare using wadcutters in both 38spl and 44spl?

[@GunSam]

Thank you.

[@michigunsanta8680]

I love 44spl! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@brudweger]

Damned good shooting!

[@Oldsoldiersays]

My fathers carry gun a model 27(? 357) in the 70's. He only carried 180gr half jacketed hollow points. Haven't been able to find them in forever but he used his weapon several times on duty and swore by them.

[@jamesmarkov9570]

The old school rounds preformed

[@originallonewolf6643]

Hahaha cool. Believe it or not I carry those rounds in the 605 hate you didn't test em outta that 1 cool vid bro

[@jeffpaul8260]

good luck finding 44 special rounds. i have the smith model 69 with 2.75 inch barrel that i sometimes carry owb in the winter if we ever get coat weather in florida. love it, but also like the 180 grain 44 mags. my regular carry though is a taurus 856. unless i am pocket carrying then its my ruger lcp2 in 380.

[@johnhale9686]

Finally a test that show people why I shoot 44 special instead of mag. 44 special has a cult following.

[@jar6588]

I like it ,keep shooting random stuff 😳🤣✌️🍺🇺🇸

[@davidh9659]

Been seein revolvers so often on your channel that ... I just had to get one myself. See what you've done? Take responsibility xD

[@ryandrakes9925]

Awesome.

[@WheelgunsOnWheels]

Excellent work all around from idea thru execution! Loved it. Tell me, how does the recoil feel from the .44 special compared to the .38. Is it as heavy as .357 recoil or closer to .45 acp, or what? Never shot one but know I can’t work a .44 magnum with my compromised hands. Thanks in advance Sam.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. This .44 Special in this gun was about like a .45 ACP, less felt recoil than .357 Magnum.

[@WheelgunsOnWheels]

Thanks for the response. I might just expend my collection in that direction. @@GunSam

[@GunSam]

@@WheelgunsOnWheels I went with this model 69 in .44 Magnum because it's as small as a .44 Special revolver, but can handle magnum ammo. It's the perfect .44 Special with magnum options.

[@WheelgunsOnWheels]

@@GunSam that’s excellent. I’ve been eyeing a few Smith And Wesson .44’s and now that I’m better informed regarding their personality, I’ll go in that direction more confidently now. Thanks so much for taking the time to reach out. I’m a quadriplegic with 30 years of revolver experience 21 of which in the wheelchair. I’m working with only 3 good fingers operable on my good hand but still get plenty of shooting in doing it my own way. Take a peek at my tiny KZbin channel if you like to see how I make it work. Again, thank you Sam.

[@arthurshingler2025]

Good tests and comparisons! Factory test barrels are usually 7.5" to 8".....

[@joesheetstheragman7737]

Good test.

[@matthewtalich9989]

I was really expecting the smaller lighter 38 to tumble especially since other feeds that have tested this have gotten that result but mostly in short barrel revolvers. I wonder if the 158 grain bullet tumbles more consistently at lower speeds.

[@tommycarter4629]

Love wheel gun action TKS

[@Lordestroyer]

Just bought a Charter Arms 44 Special Bulldog. Anxious to see how it performs aside my Taurus 38 Special.

[@kevanhubbard9673]

Shame that the .32 Long wasn't christened the .32 Special and you could have added that!I have a feeling that a .41 Special was brought out but unlike the others after the magnum equivalent however it never caught on guessing probably it'd be similar to the .44 Special in power?

[@kentwilliams3326]

I thought that 755 f/s was quite hot for the .44 spl. Having fired well over 1,000,000 rounds thanks to the government, the VERY most fun I ever experienced was shooting that 246 grain RNL .44 Special at a 2x4 @ 25 yards. At each shot a section of that 2x4 literally exploded sending splinters everywhere. What a "hoot!" Sticky ejection with the .44 with that low of a chamber pressure means, at least to me, that the chamber walls could use some polishing. I sent mine to Clarks gun smithing, and what a difference!

[@andyphelps3064]

i would love to see more popular LRN /LFN rounds like 9mm 380, 45 and stuff like that just for the novelty in the gel would be interesting

[@conro7003]

Man, I have a revolver that won’t take plus p ammo. Just about every hp round I’ve seen that isn’t plus p in 38 special has either failed to expand, or expanded and failed to get to 12 inches of penetration. The few that I’ve seen that do barely meet standards I cannot find anywhere locally. So I bought some federal lead round nose 158 g because I knew it would AT LEAST get penetration. After watching this, though, I’m pretty happy seeing as it doesn’t look like 38 special lrn is likely to over penetrate.

[@tedberwick3186]

WOW

[@DanTheWolfman]

Something something Phillipino Warriors w Machetes.....a old tech is Slower actually better because leads to tumbling after going through bone? Like .32 or .38 S&W a good bit slower. Would prefer a wadcutter to RN.

[@DanTheWolfman]

@@rangefinderz5135 whoa so 150fps difference which is like none with round ball loads

[@joemorganeatmyshortschannel]

i think either would do the job in a snubnose for defense not a modern round but if its what you got then you could do alot worse

[@Gieszkanne]

Nice test! You should have put a candle next to the propane tank! ; )

[@GunSam]

Maybe if I film right after some more rain lol

[@unclejohnbulleit2671]

I'd like to see this with Wadcutters to compare them.

[@alanpruett2217]

I’d like to the the comparison with a 200 to 210 grain 44 Special round.

[@leadbullets4life]

Sam i loved this video and you know im much a lead bullet gunner, when i was a young 9 year old most box store 1 in particular was the old payless store and they had a sporting goods dept. And i saw a box of winchester 44 spl in a glass case and it read 246 RNL and 655 FPS, so you may have heard the story of Son of Sam in 1977 in New York City he would use a 3in Charter Arms bulldog in 44 special and he will assassinate couples mostly in cars back in those days car windshields were laminated and police reports indicate a 44 caliber slug with halfway through the windshield being the windshield very thick and the 44 slug traveling very slow but extremely effective.

[@GunSam]

Yeah I have heard of him. Definitely more lead can be better at a lot of things, but your description seems right. Always seems like if you got more lead, what you shave off going through a barrier still leaves more than a .38 caliber's worth. The .38 doing that might not have much bullet left to be effective.

[@markmuch1295]

Hi Sam, I can't find any .38 for sale except 130 grain full metal jacket that goes 940 ft per sec. What do you think of that round compared to lead? Thanks.

[@shadowwolf2524]

I know many people will not agree with me, but currently all 4 of my 38 Special revolvers are loaded with American Eagle 38 158gr LRN. I do have other types of rounds, including standard velocity and Plus P "defense" loads. But I've always been comfortable with the 158 LRN loads.

[@GunSam]

They are efficient. Always a lower powder charge, less bore friction so you got good energy for low recoil.

[@LionquestFitness]

@@GunSam Also something I've pondered on. Human beings are upright with vital organs exposed unlike most other mammals. The old school Jelly Brice shooting stance of crouch and shooting from the hip took advantage of this and of the LRN bullet tumbling up at an angle through vital organs.

[@GunSam]

@@LionquestFitness That would take some incredible eye coordination. A laser might help someone get to that point faster.

[@shadowwolf2524]

@@GunSam Roger that

[@furmanmackey5479]

I learned back in the 1970s that big, relatively slow rounds make bigger holes down range....Where it counts in the real world of self-defense. .

[@scottroder5516]

You were right about the rounds performance. I don't think you could go wrong with either round for self defense.

[@ftdefiance1]

Round nose lead existed because it was easier to cast then lead semi wadcutters. When I started shooting the round nose lead round was very common and disparaged as the "widow maker" . Officers would make solid hits but suspects would not be stopped killing the officer.

[@GunSam]

One of my subs is an older police officer. He said he had to use LRN twice, once it didn't work well but the other time it was lights out.

[@Gieszkanne]

You can find a lot of evidence with people hit by hollow points several times still shooting back or running away. I think hp are overrated.

[@jacobackley502]

As a bullet caster, I can say LRN is not any different to cast and SWC, TC, WFN, or any other solid shape. Not sure why anyone would think that'd be the case.

[@Torter23]

I've spent a lot of time researching the disparaging of the 158 LRN, a bad rap whose myth is perpetuated in forums by people (not here - you're clearly indicating what you've heard from others) simply repeating what they've heard ("...it's the worst SD choice") without any reliable sources other than hearsay - even law enforcement back in the day jumped on this idea - without a lot of data. From what I can tell, it seems that once 357 magnum was on the scene and some departments adopted it, officers in agencies whose leaders were against the more powerful round would instinctively point out any 38 shortfalls when they happened. What data there is shows that LRN was effective and this is confirmed in modern ballistics tests where 158gr LRN performs better than FMJ and often equals or exceeds hollowpoints that fail to expand. In most cases, asking an officer if they wanted a more powerful round (357) was like asking if they wanted more money, so any failures of the 38 were emphasized. One legitimate concern of LE back in the day against the 158 LRN was lack of barrier performance. That's a real concern in many scenarios but not so much from a civilian point of view. You don't see a lot of serious testing of LRN other than here and a few others (PH) and that's either because testers assume it's a bad choice so why bother, or they have a self interest in selling "defensive" ammo that costs two to three times more. Out of a snub nose, good ol' 158gr LRN does the job pretty well and cheaper, allowing one to practice more. In fact, the adequate penetration combined with lack of overpenetration and the bonus of a tendency to tumble, it's a pretty good balance of weight, material, and velocity. The only question is....158gr LRN or 148gr wadcutter. I'd like to see the two tested together under the same conditions. My gut is that both do better than people give them credit, though wadcutters have been held in greater esteem in the mainstream. To be fair, 110gr critical defense (standard pressure) seems to do pretty well out of a snub, but possibly underpenetrate. Of course, it's pricier. Sorry for the long post! To Gun Sam, keep up the good work!!!