GW Fumbled the Leagues of Votann HARD

[@knightoforange7177]

Is it a coincidence that the edition that sees the elf faction rein supreme sees the dwarf faction wrought low? That's going in the book.

[@jaxxchang-weinberg4684]

Honestly the biggest fumble GW has done when it came to the LoV was that there where no Votann novels that came out with the box set in 9th. I would love more Capitalist Space Dwarves lore and stories but nope, here’s more Ultramarine novels

[@fishfingers4548]

The Rowboat has a lot to answer for. 'Bout time the pesky smurfs were fed to nids.

[@marcanderson6034]

The Votann are giant machines. Larger than anything else than titans. No we don’t need those models

[@fluffywolfo3663]

The novels are such a good way to get us interested in them too! Especially because you - yeah, you, the person reading this comment, _JIM_ - have questions and you'd like to see them play out in-series. How do they see humanity, what about a novel that puts them in conflict with the Admech or Inquisition, do they get along with the Space Wolves, what's the deal with stuff like New Catachan?

[@hpenvy1106]

DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE, BROTHA ⛏️??

[@jaxxchang-weinberg4684]

@@hpenvy1106 ROCK AND STONE!!!!

[@Cmdtheartist]

GW should stop using a Magic 8-Ball to make corporate decisions.

[@HappyNoob17YT]

That made my day.

[@youngtank4039]

How about we get rid of corporate altogether and someone buys gw and turns the company private.

[@secretname2670]

no can do, who will sue the fans for making fan-animations and fanart then?

[@HappyNoob17YT]

@@secretname2670 are they still doing that?

[@secretname2670]

@@HappyNoob17YT yes, the policy is still in full effect and GW would enforce it if they only knew how to use the internet. Guess who made exodite, guess why TTS died on the spot before the big finale. Guess why only fan content crafted actively is just chromatic rebranding of old official stuff without any creativity. GW done goof and they be big goof.

[@rakisuzuki-burke4148]

I remember reading the the Leagues rules at the end of 9th, and thinking "WTF? This army literally punishes your opponent for playing the game."

[@gloomycrayon355]

“What if we made a faction who can build/upgrade mid battle? Na fuck you”

[@OneDapperFrog]

Yeah, they went to far with handing out tokens. Should've just given them out when one of your units die.

[@gunfrigginbelievable6092]

Had a game where I was losing badly but because I lost so many units he had so many tokens I wiped 5 units of Terminator/gravis bricks in one shooting phase with magna rails. Truly gross.

[@TheOther19]

They came out purposefully broken.. I'm willing to bet someone in charge of the rules and a hard on for the space dwarves. In all my years of 40k, never seen an army so broken on release. I refuse to play against them.. No one in my local area plays with or against them anymore. Our tournament banned them cause they were so OP

[@Kepora1]

LoV I everything people cry tau are but worse and with actual toughness and melee added.

[@ARIES5342]

ALL WE WANTED was dwarves with lazers, bikers with axes, ancient elders in power armor IN SPACE!

[@TheKnightOfSmite]

AND GLYPHIDS!

[@weshammer]

AGREED! I was flabbergasted that they didn't have a novel lined up ready to go with the launch and flabbergasted that so much time has gone by and we STILL don't have a votan novel. They haven't even shown up as a side character in any novels.

[@lolaharris1257]

Hi Wes

[@Technoanima]

Pretty sure they didn't expect the HYPE.

[@Spaced92]

Only a niche fan cares about that though. Eldar, Tau, Orkz, Tyranids, Necrons didn't launch with novels, just a codex. Most xenos still don't get thrown a bone when it comes to books as well. Necrons are the only ones that got a book that actually pumped the faction up.

[@weshammer]

@@Spaced92 true but at bare minimum they showed up as antagonists in books released around that time or were referenced by characters in the story. to date there is nothing like this for the votan. By all accounts they do not exists in universe outside of their codex.

[@ZK-sz8vs]

"oh no, we took away all the votanns rules and stats and now they suck, what do we do?" "just let them field twice as many dudes bro"

[@clan741]

I can only imagine GW won’t support this faction or have books written for them then when the Votan don’t get any popularity they will can the faction and go “well we tried to make the squats work again, they seem to just never be popular. Now don’t bother us about them.” Not saying thats what would happen, just it won’t surprise me.

[@xenon3990]

So they’re gonna resquat the squats?

[@travisjohnson622]

sad, cuz they did such a poor job. Theyre not even the squats. Toddler space marines dont count.

[@anthonyallmond3682]

@@travisjohnson622they honestly do just feel like short space marines with artillery did they have to give the faction bolters as an infantry weapon

GW at its finest, make terrible decision about faction, ruin it, pretty much dump them in a backroom to waste away, then claim it is the fans fault the faction isnt popular and making them money.

[@Yurt_enthusiast7]

If they haven't done it with TS I doupt they do it to the squats😅

[@UlfgarSOS_]

They are fucking cool and its a shame that they were treated this way Also we need more long beard for them

[@inthefade]

Yes. They changed too much from fantasy dwarves, which generally defeated the purpose of having space dwarves, but I could have forgiven it. But not having long beards is unforgivable.

[@LJD442]

I want more League lore! I think your frustration is very justified here. It's really sad how many of their unique aspects has been gutted so soon after their release.

[@Bnvnu]

don't worry, gav thrope is on it. The guy that murdered the aeldari

[@scrubgrunt5105]

@@Bnvnu 'Murdered the Aeldari'? can i have some context please? it sounds interesting

[@Bnvnu]

@@scrubgrunt5105 long story short, he's behind 90% of the eldar lore, and eldar players...do not like that. While he's good at world building, the combat aspect, not so much, as he believes them a dying race, and as such they cannot win, or at best have a phyric victory. But who would want to read books about your characters getting their behind kicked? That's why the third instalation of the ynnari trilogy got canceled, and the entire eldar species just became inexistant story wise afterwards (by that, i mean nothin lore and little, figurine wise), since the ynnari stole the main plot of the three other sub-faction and they then got guillotined. They're dead.

[@scrubgrunt5105]

@@Bnvnu thanks for answering! and thats horrible.... i just feel bad now for eldar players... :( Are the Dark eldar/Druhkari also treated like this?

[@Bnvnu]

@@scrubgrunt5105not as bad, they do have a few good books and are allowed to be successful here and there . One time they stole an STC that could cure "everything" and turned it into another torture instrument, just for the sake of winning a competition for vect

[@JohnnyOrc]

Leagues of Votann: Good concept, botched execution.

[@tarektechmarine8209]

Looks at primaris with contempt.

[@Ignisrex]

I am very annoyed that the kill team isn't its own unit, Votann really needs more unit and they didn't made it its own unit, meanwhile imperium gets so many killteams as their own units that we have any entire army just for them >:c

[@matthewlaxon828]

My only thing with that is that kasrkin and novitiates are very different units to preexisting squads. The squat kill team is just a warrior box

[@XD-sc4ix]

What do you mean? The leagues kill-team is it's own unit most of the leagues kill-team models are unique models

[@Ignisrex]

@@XD-sc4ix in 40k they aren't their own unit, I think 2 or maybe 3 of the salvagers equipment is listed as an option for standard hearthkyn squads

[@Ignisrex]

@@XD-sc4ix in 40k they aren't their own unit, I think 2 or maybe 3 of the salvagers equipment is listed as an option for standard hearthkyn squads

[@polarnorman4518]

I feel the same way about the heirotek unit for necrons. A bodyguard unit for crypteks would be SO rad

[@vulpecula297]

I'm pretty optimistic about their long term future. Even if it may be a few years, we will eventually see enough new models and lore to flesh them out. Also the tone clash of 40k imagery and Omori music is pretty funny.

[@georgekerscher5355]

11:19 That's not actually a rumor: Gav Thorpe is working on a Votann novel. He accidentally teased more than he should on his twitter account this year and we were able to get the title of a rough draft called "High Karl's" prior to him deleting it. The title is cut off, but it is explict that Thorpe is writing one of, if not the first Votann novel.

[@KurtKn1sp3l]

I am pretty sure that GW also said in a community article, that LoV novels are coming.

[@marrvynswillames4975]

​@@KurtKn1sp3lAmazon got an entry for a book by Nate Crowley (who made Twice Dead King) with the votann as antagonists

[@georgekerscher5355]

@@marrvynswillames4975 Not a book, that was the Necron dhort story One Million Years

[@georgekerscher5355]

@marrvynswillames4975 Not a book, since I believe you're talking about One Million Years. That's a short story following a Cryptek. But otherwise that is correct

[@KurtKn1sp3l]

@@georgekerscher5355 Tanks to you both.

[@judeblack4360]

I remember watching an Auspex Tactics video from around the release of the LoV where he showed that the Brokhyr Ironmaster could theoretically kill Guilliman twice in a single turn. To say that they were broken upon release is an understatement.

[@MrAnihillator]

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." -GW motto

[@AidanMclaren]

"There can be no true despair without hope" -- Bane

[@flanbeau]

"I love to take punishment. Hit me hard, master. Here is my money, have a lot of it." -Every GW customer.

[@MrAnihillator]

@@flanbeau Half the hobby is complaining about the hobby. If they did everything right and had a pro-costumer approach, we wouldn't have something to complain about.

[@punec]

The wargear blandefication isn't unique to this faction. They've done it to all the factions. 10th edition sucks ass imo. I'll be playing the game with 9th ed rules. They aren't great but I prefer flaver even if it is bloated

[@punec]

Flavour*

[@m3rasmus]

Really interesting videos recently that are like a perfect merge of lore and retrospect of models and real life stuff! Keep it up man, absolutely amazing content!

[@georgekerscher5355]

Ignore this, replying to the wrong comment If it's any consolation, the titled "One Million Years" necron short story coming out this December does feature Kin as the antagonists of the story

[@15TangerineUSAF]

It’s GW. Remember they added World Eaters at the end of 9th then immediately announced that all the money spent on the codex, cards, new units ect is now wasted because we were making a new edition and will strip away all of the cool abilities of the army and Angron in particular but the free rules! Guys. Released a couple of rough drafts for like 2 units per army then proceeded to charge for a codex with the same artwork on some and the only difference being a unit (nids) that will be obsolete in a week. I want to play 40K but every time I get going they do something to make my time wasted.

[@Nuclear_Spider]

Yeah, was surprised when the roadmap for 10th came out and votann wasnt in the near-term. Hopefully Votann is up soon. Would love some lore

[@benlewis2130]

Sadly they'll be patched onto the end of this edition with maybe 1 new unit and will become the new admech

[@carldooley9344]

At least Votann got to actually USE their 9th ed codex. My poor Guard...

[@drunkenastarte5243]

At least Guard had 3-4 months My poor WE's had what, 3-4 weeks? And 90% of our existing army roster was tossed in the flaming dumpster to boot.

[@weissraben4476]

@@drunkenastarte5243 I mean, WE and Guard were basically in the same boat in a competitive sense: they came out within a couple of weeks between one and the other for official play. The Guard codex had had a prerelease back in November, true enough, but GW had been very insistent that tournaments should not allow the new codex up to the full release (on January 28th 2023).

[@david7522]

I need more squat lore. I want a Ciaphus cain book where he has to team up with a space dwarf

[@elimcewen1607]

I love my votann! And I got them because I thought they were cool, and different also very versatile. But once 10th ed came around it felt like they sucked out everything I liked about the army except for the models themselves. Hopefully when their codex comes out, they get a full rework back into their unique glory. Rock and stone!

[@lartus8027]

For Karl!

[@alessandro348]

My issue with LoV starts with the Squats. They had some cool lore and unique tech, but for the most part they were just a glorified abhuman IG regiment. Worship of the Emperor was ingrained in their ancestor veneration, AdMech didn't declare them hereteks (in fact there is a Squat Tech Priest model), they fight chaos Squats with their human Commissar. So now the LoV come in to give them a fresh start, as their own faction independent from the Imperium. They don't worship the God-Emperor. They commit extreme tech heresy in both their AI leaders and Iron Men companions, so this is basically a Golden/Dark Age of Technology human faction that didn't get wiped by the Cybernetic Revolt or Great Crusade. This is insanely cool, and very unique as a faction in the lore, not just rules/gameplay. GWs choice is to go "they do a really good job keeping it a secret you guys". So their miniature range is dragged right back down to glorified pseudo-Imperial army, now with stunted Space Wolves. This is a deliberate effort by GW to make it that way, they even had rules to fight together with armies like Sisters of Battle and BT. They should have embraced the DA tech aspect, and have the Votann lead the faction openly in spite of the Imperium. Very stupid LoV fans read this take and go "so you think Votann should be field-able?". My reply is "If the God-Emperor was a complete secret, you think the design of Imperial factions would remain unchanged?". Of course not, it is a core pillar of Imperium fluff and aesthetic.

[@bencox3641]

The Votann should have been Xenos, we already have too many human armies as is to begin with, and having a pseudo-Dark Age faction isn't helping.

[@MagicE13]

This all really comes down to GW - 1: Being greedy by OPing the Dwarves to max sales knowing they would nerf them in the next addition. 2: Licencing everything they can to the point of having to come up with R-tarded names for every nut and bolt-gun...🙃 2: Having their pweshious spwace mawhines over shadowed. GW died as a table top battle simulator the day it removed Front, Side and Rear Armour from its tanks, also giving the mahrines anti-grav was a massive mistake for aesthetics. Also also when they stopped calling them Imperial Guard.

[@Manchu8169]

I would say the biggest problem with the LOV situation is that the company that can't update most of its other armies (some in over 20 YEARS!) thought it would be great to add another army! And mess that up by not even making a fleshed out one at that... But God forbid if they don't get their quota of 20 primaris lieutenants every year! don't add another army you're only gonna update if it happens to be that year's enemy for the space marines... We already have enough of those

[@kagglerock8115]

As an admech player, I can’t help but feel like I’ve taken interest in yet another potentially overcosted army with rules that change like the weather, usually for the worse.

[@aharonswordofmagnus6721]

Hello TS player there along with Harle and Temspest. Wellcome to the family of the factions that got 1 big release and got forgotten ;_;. Be prepared to be tossed around with rules cos we just DONT have options in units...

[@Ghastly_Grinner]

Well the rule of GW is if its not a space marine or a primarch they dont give a shit about them sure they might release something but when it doesn't immediately sell as good as Space marines or heaven forbid over shadows the space marines too much it will be immediately nerfed into oblivion or completely forgotten about

[@theswarmsquad3606]

Games Workshop try to make good xenos content challenge (impossible 100% fail (gone wrong (primaris drop soon)))

[@Roylevis]

welcome to the life of admech. Since i started admech in 2018- They were good for 6 months then nerfed to the ground and stayed garbage since then... thats almost 5 years.

[@TheXenomorphwarrior]

Imagine being a fan of beastmen who have been around since the beginning, technically never gone away, and have only a single book that they have to share the protagonist spot light half the time in. (Beastgrave)

[@dakotawharton]

And now they got squatted back to the old world

[@deeperestmeme479]

It also makes me sad, they have so much potential but have gotten nothing besides a paragraph at most mentioning what their reaction is to the new events (like some people fighting an arc of omen or a group leaving when the nids showed up on a planet they were fighting for)

[@ladiesman777777]

That's a lot of Grudges against GW, making this video lore accurate!

[@Visnulv]

Rock and Stone!

[@0mn0mable]

So you're telling me this has been a litany of mistakes? How very Warhammer and lore-friendly of James Workshop. PS love the background music! 😃

[@johnsmith-dn8kv]

Personally? While I feel bad for the genuine shortking appreciators, I am sincerely in favor of anything that makes meta chasers suffer. The 10th ed backhand was sweet.

[@millburray6676]

Imagine your kink in life was winning with little toy soldiers😂

[@DeathBy_Chair]

Fun fact: My first time playing 40k IRL was against Votann twice in a row at a tournament for 9th edition. Luckily my opponents were very cool dudes and fate has let my CSM get payback since then but it is a crying shame we have so little for them. They are a genuinely fascinating army, ive since fought them about 8 times in 10th and im happy to report that after buffs they're fun to fight, i do not dread or picture a pub stomp when i see dwarves now. That second release wave better be big because the dwarves deserve so much more variety in what they bring to the table and lore.

[@ishitrealbad3039]

as a new player who was looking into his first army, i was disapointed in how Votann was just the dwarf version of space marines. They don't look like dwarfs... like at all.... I was hoping for them to be more industrial, with mining gear or something or more tribal with runes and stuff. But they're just space marines 2.0...... Their grudge mechanic kinda sucks too because you have to keep track of each grudge.... They really feel half assed. So i started with CSM instead hahaah.

[@Beatle1283]

Warhammer miniatures are like being addicted to crack cocaine and by God your dealer GW knows that.

[@funkwolf]

I joined 40k with the release of Votann and I absolutely agree, I feel like they need more time in the oven in terms of gameplay and balance, also need more lore etc... 10th edition killed their flavor a lot and now it feels like they simply shoot hard and are a bit sturdy, that's it. Unfortunately they are in a weird spot right now but im sure they will get the love they deserve in the future, it just takes time.

[@N0TYALC]

“I joined this hobby incredibly recently compared to most of you. Let me explain the game’s problems to you.”

[@funkwolf]

@@N0TYALC sorry that ive done my research and need less time to learn games than you 🤷

[@SenorGato237]

"To have a codex released, and then in 3 months it's just invalidated, it's just weird." You haven't been dealing with GW very long, have you?

[@Jessevibes]

They literally did the same thing to me with Ynnari. I thought oh cool, all the space elves working together this will be awesome. Bought the boxes and started building. Guess they were a bit too good on release because they almost immediately got nerfed into the ground with there Strength From Death mechanic going from way to good to almost completely useless. Also they came out on the ass end of 8th ed making all the attachments the boxes were built around irrelevant in 9th just a few months later. GW is a bad company, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[@Distamorfin]

The homogenization of melee seems to just be a thing in 10th. Comparing my passing familiarity with model rules in 9th and available load outs compared to 10th, GW seems to have favored streamlining over any sort of model customization. Most power weapons are now just “relic weapons” and the combi-weapons don’t even have individual stats anymore. There’s no difference between a combi-melta or combi-plasma. It’s all just too simple now, and that’s coming from someone who’s never played a game.

You nailed it, I come from a time when combi-weapons were truly a game changer and melee was still good. Then i watched as my Nids slowly got nerfed directly and indirectly, melee got made so bad Nids were useless at it, they got weakened so that even if used for range the big boys could be dropped by end of turn 1 easily and then point values meant you had to take less and less instead of compensating by upping your numbers on the table.

[@Cornerboy73]

I wouldn't give up on them. I think they have a lot of potential and everyone I know, including myself like their aesthetic. I am hopeful that in time the LoV grows with new miniatures that flesh out the range in a way that gives players more options in how to play them. More lore would be great too - not just in books, but video games too (i.e.: I see no reason why Darktide can't have a LoV character).

[@ThexVaultxTech]

It's cathartic to see someone else talking about this. I wonder if they're going to soft retcon them by pulling the last of their support and never mentioning them again.

[@DaThingOnTheDoorstep]

I thought GW fumbled from day 1 by not giving them more beard.

[@jeffers1985]

Squats just got the xeno treatment and yes I won't ever call them votann like Imperial guard and eldar. They may throw you a bone once in a while, but will not be heavily supported by the company since they ain't space marines

[@randomnerd5807]

I feel like Votann vs Tyranids would have been a way more interesting start to 10th then the Tyranids vs SpeSs MarINes we got. God I am so sick of Space Marines.

It would of been like a legendary fight rematch, a vengeance round, the Space Dwarves with a chance to lay the smackdown on the bug boys. Could of been truly epic, but no of course the SM's get that yet again, I wish the Nids would evolve to kick the crap out of SM's only just to give other factions a chance at the spotlight again since every SM vs Buggies story would become "SM's got eaten, the end".

[@MrConna6]

The rules have been consistently shit, there is no background because rhey are a sales driven shoehorn and the models are atrocious for the setting; super generic for sci fi and super boring and clean for the imperium, it’s also quite clear as a kharadron player they cleaned up the arkanaut armour and just used that, its so clearly a copy of their infantry.I would have ro guess this is because gw has a stupid aversion to their more traditional fantasy races like dwarves that the squats were initially based off. I like the individual squats fw has done but even the actual squat unit is a miss for me for similar reasons. Tbh, I wouldn’t play them, with them in doubles, or against them, unless heavy conversion or 3d printing had been done to the whole army. All in all, from a design history perspective and a long time players perspective they’re soulless and bloat the game unnecessarily

[@MrConna6]

And before everyone says but Tau were hated too, they were hated because they were too positive and sunny in a grim dark universe, these guys fall for the exact same trap, however Tau actually have lore that is better than the bare minimum to force their presence on players as if they’re just the same old squats refreshed. Their sculpts also work with grim dark or whatever aesthetic you choose to paint, but these are visually cartoony and I can’t see them looking right on a battlefield with anything other than a pure primaris force

[@tarektechmarine8209]

@@MrConna6 I hate tau because they're better than the Raptor chapter. Also tech wise, the imperium would be well able to resist railgun fire, the great crusades proved that.

[@MrConna6]

@@tarektechmarine8209 I mean a railgun is just a delivery method at the end of the day, same as a rifle. As we have no real usable knowledge on sustainable rail guns now as a civilisation and, afaik, (I don’t play tau) the ammunition is also a powerful force multiplier to the railguns existing lethality

[@theadeptuscustodian8157]

Legit one of my favourite factions, but like there’s no lore, no stories, and one named character

[@mrstopmotionpotion4636]

Same I just wish there was more

[@I2dios8]

This seems to be the sad fate of a lot of armies. Daemons, Admech, Drukhari... at least Votann are good right now, albeit in a very unfun and bland way where you are basically just tossing +1 to hit and wound against any enemy unit that is remotely dangerous since you have so many of them.

[@GnohmPolaeon.B.OniShartz]

Woah, what a revelation. GW Hates you, and makes awful decisions as a result. What- a- shock. And I'm new here. SQUATS! THATS THE ONE THING I WANTED. Truly, I still don't care. If its good, it won't be worth it. And if its worth it, it won't be good. They'll also butcher the Lore, because I'm pretty sure you can't make SquatsMarines. But how funny?

[@Neruomir]

Space bikers was to unoriginal lets just do another flavor of power armor space marines but now with a viking theme! Um, sir we already did, the space wolves.. Oh? Right but not with big dwarves or with oldschool pulp robots and with a super secret love of AI! Um, the Mechanicus already have the pulp robots and the AI stuff and it's kinda their thing.. Oh shut up and just do it, marketing already said it was a brilliant idea anyway.

[@knyghtmordhaus9170]

LoV was the first faction I bought going into the hobby of 40k, given I was a dwarf fan in fantasy I promised myself that if they had a serious release on squats (since theyre too goofy for my taste) I would finally give in to playing 40k (all my friends only played 40k and none were interested in old world or AoS). By the time I actually finished painting and building my army, the first JT nerf kicked in, but it was needed given how busted we were on release. By the time I'm ready to play another game because my days opened up. 10e came out and I saw how this faction was being treated lore and gameplay wise. TBH I dont know if I want to go further into the 40k rabbit hole because of the lack of content for a newly released faction, it sometimes feel like LoV is just a one hit wonder and now its currently in the back burner, I want to think that when they release a new codex for us, it will rekindle my love for the idea of a faction of space dwarves but since there barely any content on us, it only remains an idea.

[@BenersantheBread]

Bro who cares about the game? Everyone knows it sucks, it has always sucked. I thought you'd talk about how they look like generic space men, are about as tall as guard units and that THEY HAVE INTACT STCs! GW forgetting that STCs are supposed to be beyond priceless and that an intact one would elevate any faction that has it to the dominant superpower in the galaxy was beyond unacceptable for me. They treat STCs like they have 2-3 somewhat useful blueprints each. I want to remind you that the Imperium's mightiest weapons were NOTHING to humanity of the Age of Technology. And that's not even mentioning that they have working AI because apparently only humans aren't allowed to have AI in this galaxy.

[@Aptonoth]

According to rumors wave 2 is allegedly going to be out next year. I will caution some skepticism though as GW has fumbled EVERY dwarf race launch in Sigmar as well. Tiny as fuck initial mini armies that had no visual range to expand like fyre and Kharadron. Now rather than fix their mistakes and flesh these factions out PROPERLY with a major release wave GW and AoS has basically put a ban on all things KO and Fyre that isn't a single leader model release. It's a pretty dumb situation. I HOPE they give Votann their flavour back while not being OP as shit and continue to support them with books and models for decades... but looking at SIgmar has me sus as fuck.

[@brettmanus7904]

I don't care about Votann one way or another, but this WAS entertaining. As a CSM aficionado, I can understand. We've been getting porked in the butt cheeks since 5th edition when they cleaved our codex in twain and unleashed Matt Ward upon us. The army has been more bland than hard tack ever since. Do I exaggerate? The numbers don't lie. I counted in 9th. Marines had at least 102 datasheets! CSM had 44; 18 of which were characters. 😳 Not exactly a stunning display of army amazingness. Only about 5 of those were worth moose spit, and every time an update came out our shit got more expensive, while Marines' points went down and wargear became free. I feel you, Votann players.

[@scottym.9077]

Hot take: LoV should not have been made a faction. If the best in game functional theme you can come up with is “Space Marines but better and shorter”, you need to go back to the drawing board. Additionally, there are so many factions that need updates, I think bringing those factions up to date and injecting some energy into those fan bases would have been a far better use of resources.

[@Philtopy]

GW just isn’t a good game manufacturer. They make cool minis. They make cool lore. They make cool fomo. But they are horrible at balancing the game properly. There are games SO much more rounded and well made. Same goes for their little game boxes. Literally every game they make rulewise is done better by someone else. Only difference is that the others aren’t 40K. But they profit from that tremendously. Because by balancing the imbalance correctly, you can „guide“ your customers into shifting products back and forth. That’s why the Leagues only get a new shineup, when GW can capitalise on a ton of Fomo and „Wantnewshinything“. Their games will never just be „good“. They want to be a little shitty.

[@SimonProctor]

You missed so many things. Berserks just being bad. The fact that the Grimnirs Corvs no longer can take the damage from a failed psychic attack. The fact that you can't put a squad in Exo Armour in a transport if it's got a leader because of his entourage. The fact one of said entourage has a pistol that doesn't have the pistol keyword. The fact that all the BS values were dropped because judgement tokens give you +1 to hit but it means your heavy weapons are now just WORSE... The book of grudges is full of every way the Votann index sucks. And it is a large book.

[@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290]

I don't like their armour style. I just wanted the Squad prospectors from necromunda expended to a full army. And I'm still intending to do an army of these... for OPRs grimdark future, just because that system allows me to make my own units, which means I can use all my necromunda vehicles, some genestealer ones, the 30k drill droppod and most importantly the necromunda squad mining mech. But I also want GW to finish the Votann range, so the people who do like them can build an army which covers most roles. (Also do the same for WE please, it's unreasonable that they don't get a chaos Lord in terminator armour)

[@thorveim1174]

the votann are just starcraft marine clones when it comes to the armor (ESPECIALLY the helmet since it seems both took a page out of IRL space suits), and are shamefully with a arge percentage of models lacking beards and a hate of helmet that dont sport a massive visor when they even bother wearing one (Especially grating on the Exos, theya re supposed to take heavy fire, why isnt a SINGLE one of them wearing a helmet to a degree where I'm pretty sure its not choice of the user, its that a helmet was never designed for it!). Somewhere, there is a warhamer dwarf that had visions of the future, and decided their space cousins shamed their ancestors. hell, they put TIRES ON THEIR MBT just for the sake of making it an oversized moon rover with guns to fit in their astronaut visual theme.

[@maddlarkin]

There is a simple truth with collecting anything GW related, at a certian point you reach the end of the line and finally have enough of their bullshit this eventually happens to everyone. For me, a diehard Guard player that point came in early 5th, the new Robin Cruddance Guard codex came out and it was utter crap (not suprising from a man who did 1 bsttle report as Guard and lost since he had zero idea how mech infantry worked), it replaced Doctrines with Orders, stripped out 3/4 of the variety and customisation and added a few new tanks with duplicated rolls. Overnight every army I had all specialist doctrine reliaent were illegal, then to add insult to injury GW repackaged all the plastics keeping the same price and halving the contents. I was absolutely done, havent played since, I still model (90% from 3rd party companies) but I've no desire to play the increasingly unbalanced contastantly updated mess that is morden 40k.

[@GPBlue-zl3sx]

Another missed opportunity. Capitalizing on Deep Rock Galactic hype - the 10th ed starter collection should have been Leagues vs Tyranids. You could release a trilogy of novels that talk about where the Squats have been this whole time, what happened to survivors of the planet that was nommed by the Nids twenty years ago, and you could show them off in the context of the new 10th ed. But no, we needed more space marines, so...

[@kyrridas1573]

i prayed for the return of squats for _yeeeeeeears,_ never thinking it was going to happen. GW forgot they exist. and then they actually got announced and i was really excited, because they would probably be my new favorite army. and then models were revealed...............and they're just small space marines. no chomping cigars, no leather biker jackets, no shotguns or sunglasses. no trains with unique movement rules. no motorcycles with huge over-the-top exhaust pipes. the vast majority of them dont even have a respectable beard. utterly disappointing. if other people like votann, thats cool. but the old biker dwarves that served as the ork's rough n' rowdy counterpart are gone forever.

[@meatman6603]

When I saw they were overpowered I knew that this was going to be somewhat of a repeat of what happened when the T’au were first released, but they got it even worse now. Now I’m worried that in the books (if they ever get them) they’ll get the T’au treatment even more and get clowned on by literally everything in lore despite supposedly being advanced tech wise. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had a random guardsman walk up and just rip the arm off an Einhyr Hearthguard.

[@Mcdonaldrod75]

My biggest criticism is a stylistic one. Dwarves are the antithesis of Orks but should share the outlandish humor. There should be eye patches, weird haircuts, inventive and outlandish weapons ( like multi-melta trikes ). They are the survivors, on mining worlds and isolated regions, so they are a bit tropo, or should be. It could have been a fun army. Instead it's a bit meh. It's a game! They need more animal motifs, innovative gear and lore.

[@filamentio]

I fucking love them! I dont play 40k anymore (only 4edition) and i am a hardcore 3D Printer guy. But i have a complete Amry of them in original GW Plastic because i love the design so much :D

[@robingraves9517]

Squats have always been a cursed subject with GW ever since they were first brought out back in the Rogue Trader days. They were fumbled back then and of course, they were fumbled again. I dont expect them to be done justice period. Much less continued. Much like any mistake GW has made they will come up with some retcon. Maybe they all will get eaten by Tyranids again. I still remember back in the day when they brought in chaos squats,,then the next day they never existed.

[@NateMcQuade]

Great video. Loved the way you ended it. You hit on some very salient points, all legit. I agree the utter lack of lore sucks, as did the brazen homogenization of all the of the faction's identity on the tabletop (all the fun beam mechanics, different weapon profiles etc.) But what galls the worst is that this is the same feeling of a complete lack of transparency about long term planning with the Leagues that GW seem to always embrace so hard. I'm biased against GW despite loving the IP, they're assclowns more often than not. But this case you've pointed out is especially egregious, considering the disrespect they showed the Squats once already. Guess we do hold grudges.

[@ADHadh]

I haven't paid any attention to Leagues of Votann (I left that money sink long ago), but it sounds like they're on their way to be re-squatted. And cool melee gear being just basic CC weapons? That annoyed me back in 6th with chainswords.

[@benderxx1338]

sometimes it's hard to tell with games. things like this "balancing" bullshit reeks of conspiracy. Sometimes games release something that is so OP that it is just objectively better than everything else to the point that it seems like they did it on purpose bc they want to sell them. A few (insert a short amount of time later usually a few months sometimes less) they nerf the shit out of them screwing over everyone who paid money for it! I'm not even talking about warhammer specifically, like all games do this stupid shit. Hey look cool new thing coming out! give us money for cool new thing, also it's over powered AF so like buy this bc you need it to be competitive!! ahhahah JK we're nerfing it nerds!@ thanks for your money git reked. sorry this happens so often in games these days that it can't be a coincidence

[@freybrand1617]

Call me "That guy" if you want, but as soon as I saw the change to bs4+ on everything, the change to unit sizes, and the huge nerf to judgement tokens, I sold my entire votann collection and just bought tau. They fucked up so bad. I also hated that I owned 80 warriors and then suddenly they got restricted to 10 man squads so 20 of my arriors became worthless to me.

[@GalisSlipscale]

I always felt they should have gone with Necrons for the slow, resilient, short-ranged-shooting faction with some medium melee power after, because that's where the army feels like it heads sometimes. But that's neither here nor there. Honestly, I think the biggest fumble is how slow they've been to expand the range. Most armies have done some real 'identity searching' not long after their premier, and the flux in rules, well, it happens more for them than others. But they need things to put on the table. Votann met the bare minimum on launch - which is actually good, many armies begin life with less than that - but then just stalled out. They BADLY need options though and by now they should at least have some noticeably different alternatives to their current choices to open up some different ways to approach the table with the army. Definitely should have had another tank already, and something like a walker or monster-equivalent.

[@daverage4729]

Was pretty excited about the Squats coming back (as I was a fan back when they had their old look. Was hoping for a more unique look but they just seem like short Space Marines. Went from being my fave faction in the olds days to my least favorite. Just found them dull as dishwater.

[@turefarwell920]

I stopped following not too long after 10th as I had to move for work. But the forge world custodes army I had got gutted to push the plastic kits and my 2000 point votann army is now barely 1500. I’m not sure what to think.

[@NeoIsrafil]

Complaining about how powerful the leagues are, thats a grudgein... Complain bout gw proving once again that they care only about the money and understand very little about the game and give 0 effs about most of the xenos lore or armies because this is world of ultramarinecraft... Definitely a grudgein.

[@fren111]

Honestly, I don't like League of Voltan, and generally I treat it the same as AoS (I pretend it doesn't exist), unfortunately for those who like Voltan it's easy, they practically don't exist

[@Killbill538]

I don't follow the competition sphere of our hobby but OMG that removal of beam, 3rd grudge token, and not having rules for those special minis, really make me hate GW to it's very core.

[@Tyrinath]

Outside looking in I can't imagine putting up with this level of commitment and having your physical plastic efforts "Invalidated" by a rule set change. Must be freeing to be a person who gives negative three shits about the tabletop game and just paints the minis. Me personally I just absorb surrounding media, all things considered this saves me a lot of money overall.

[@RSBurgener]

I'm with you. I don't have a personal connection to Votaann, but my Blood Angels and my Iron Warriors have definitely gotten the short end these past few years. I think a lot of us have. Definitely winners and losers with GW.

[@jacobs7364]

Most of your complaints for the weapon changes hurt all the factions. Turning all power weapons into one block. Combi-weapons not existing anymore. 10th is so watered down and streamlined; at least the games go faster... ?

[@ryan.1990]

You don't love them, you're addicted to buying GW slop. You confuse sunk cost fallacy and addiction to this. Hence why everyone just accepted the endless unnecessary editions, to mention nothing of the prices.

[@theemissary1313]

I feel it's just GW being GW as they have been for years, they just stopped trying to even look like they cared. the release of 10th seems like the focus is on making maximum profit off new customers with little to no focus on game support or balance.

[@jonathanscott5932]

Bruh my main troops for my army are the same ones I built when I was 10. I’m 33, you’re sounding a bit privileged my guy. Catachan need new troops.

[@Ultr4l0f]

Something I miss is a bit more ... nordic/viking look. We already have a trillion dudes/dudettes with power armour. They have their own design. I dont hate it. But I dont love it either. The Grimnyr looks how I wanted the entire army to look

[@CigarChompinSarge]

With regard to rules changes, this really sums up 40k in general the past couple editions. Every time I look at or hear about army rules, I just zone out, because it's all the same shit remixed. Very little feels special or unique.

[@inthefade]

They aren't dwarfy enough. If I had this army I would modify them to look much more dwarfy. Long beards, runes, cigars, kilts, and so on.

[@christopheraaron1255]

When 10th came out they stripped the awesome out of EVERY army. They can't be arsed to write a game, so they didn't. They just want you to buy models.

[@commonerknight8894]

I actually abandoned my votann collection early in 10th. Seeing the rollercoaster that LoV was since release… i had to get off. Traded for a MASSIVE lot.

[@mannofdober873]

There's so much they could do with the Leagues. Imagine, a bigger Brokhyr Thunderkyn like a Dreadnought equivalent, give it drills and lasers and shit then bolt some big guns on it. More Hearthkyn. Make something like a crazy Lunar Lander flyer that's also a transport and has an ass-ton of sensors or guns. Artillery. ACTUAL FUCKING TANKS. Bet you we'll get exactly one character though. Just watch.

[@giraton1]

Oh good, someone else is incredibly mad about the sword option for the Khal being missing, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S A LOADOUT YOU CAN ACTUALLY MAKE OUT OF THE BASE KIT NOT JUST THE LIMITED EDITION!!!

[@spare5808]

I don't like their design, it's just a bit boring in my opinion. Dwarfs in space via Nasa... I was hoping for something a bit more distinct. The demiurge had a brutalist feel if i recall or if you wanted to go down the ultra-capitalist route then go gilded age and give them an art deco aesthetic.

[@Gillemear]

My main problem with the Voltan is that the are too much like the Spacd Wolves. The whole Vikings in space theme is too over used. Plenty of other cultures they could base them off. I mean a Maori style Voltan League or one based on the Inca would be class

[@RockmeHellsing]

GW done them and the grexy knights dirty, no psychic phase makes my knights shit and the weapons are just nemewsis force weapons they took our cool hammers...GW really sucks in these

[@benlewis2130]

I dont like how the army functions as the rules almost wants you to kill your units to gain judgements tokens as they're so cheap to field, whereas the lore wants them to be sturdy, powerful and extremely technologically advanced which when comparing the bolters of imperial forces to votann forces the votann one is shite. I genuinely hate how they've thrown this faction into the void from which it emerged

[@tcideh4929]

Why do you stay chained to the terrible company that is GW. You keep getting served absolute attractive rubbish and stick around hoping they will serve something good.

[@mr.miniaturesmodels8465]

Wow… the parallels to the want of support units and nerfing of great abilities to the history of the Adepta Sororitas are striking.

[@jakeprater6681]

As a average dwarf enthusiast as well, I was really hoping that these dudes would be a bit like the fantasy dwarves. Some of it is there, but I really wanted more, dwarfy-ness. Big artillery batteries, really stout and up close guys with axes. They feel so disconnected from the universe, and part of it is that they have no lore right now, but I wish their aesthetic was more 40k if that makes sense.

[@beowylfen]

I do think they fit the aesthetic tbh, they look a lot like Van Saars to me which makes sense for them being humans with tech

[@tarektechmarine8209]

@@beowylfen It hurts lore wise for me, why the heck don't space marines or elite guard have similar tech. especially because it's human tech.

[@beowylfen]

@@tarektechmarine8209 it's ancient tech that the Imperium no longer understands. It's a big theme with the Imperium that they're losing technology and back sliding more and more. Also all Leagues weapons aside from beams do have Imperium equivalents

[@bencox3641]

@@beowylfen I really hate how 40K does the whole "lost tech" trope. They are able to build and maintain entire war fleets of battleships that travel through space hell and arm their rank and file with laser rifles, but they are somehow losing technology?