GWENT BALANCE COUNCIL VOTES: DECEMBER 2023

[@RikjeSuede]

Wise words, Lids! Alas I don't think I'll get those 50 wins this season, but I'm eager to see the changes the voting will bring this time.

[@LidsVidsTV]

Thanks, fingers crossed that this month's changes are good

[@BiggusDingus325]

Thanks for the vids lids

[@LidsVidsTV]

Thank you for all of the support!

[@vibk2744]

I didn't have time to farm wins, so I will not vote in this rotation, but I agree with your thoughts except Ixora, I don't think she deserves a nerf.

[@LidsVidsTV]

Yeah, I'm not sure that she's probably not going to get enough votes to get changed, so it may not matter, but we'll see what the results are in a few days

[@mohammadamirshoale]

im agree with all of your vote exept ixora , i don't think she deserves nerf , u can counter it with something like drones or u can counter vice deck with frost or siege or aristo or fuckin madoc(if u use devotion deck) and etc. After devs changed her vice to 8 and her power , This cart isn't OP anymore😅

[@LidsVidsTV]

The vice changed definitely slowed her down, which is why I was hesitant to vote for her in the previous voting sessions, but she still quite strong - the power nerf was largely insignificant, because she's still big enough that it takes ~2 turns to remove her with damage

[@crabrave729]

Pikean can stay at 4power but go to 6prov, same as onager, but dame should cost 6prov too. Slave drivers same thing, 6 prov. Ixora can go to 6pover, or 5, to be easyer to remove. AND demavend is not a bad thing, so as raffards vengence. the bad thing is temple, and as a nr main i WOULD LOVE to see it at 15prov.

[@LidsVidsTV]

Yeah, the NR Demavend/Temple/Mutagenerator/Inspired Zeal decks definitely need to lose a few provisions somewhere. I agree that NG status spam cards should get nerfed a little more, but since the more direct approach of nerfing Thirsty Dame didn't remain, power nerfing Pikeman was a deliberately more subtle approach, with the hope that it was less likely to get immediately reverted

Agree with Dao, constructs are everywhere, but buffing master of puppets and overkill to zeal? Master of puppets is strong card in buhurt-golden nekker decks, can do massive swing in one move with not that much of preparation. But NR bias is just big lmao. Zeal is not only played with muta decks, but with blue stripes for example, and tell me when You last seen them? Ildiko is rarely seen, and is not that hard to counter, with NG and SK decks every game. I Think that way to nerf strongest NR deck is by nerfing muta and decreasing power for Onager. That way u wont kill that deck, but make it weak enough for other decks. I would consider also nerfing arbalest in somę way, thats must have card for most zeal decks.

[@crabrave729]

There is the way, we need to buff Foltest mb. Both power and provision tbh.

[@LidsVidsTV]

Master of Puppets is a nerf, since it goes to your opponent's side when you use it. Of course NG status spam and SK damage decks can answer Ildiko; control decks are supposed to answer engine decks. But for non-control decks, Ildiko takes away engines' greatest weakness - their lack of tempo, making those decks especially strong. As for Foltest, he's one of my favorite cards, and he could use a bit of a buff to be more relevant.

[@mohammadamirshoale]

Also about keltullis , This card is sooo OP , if u dont have heatwave or 2 tall removal u will be dead... Also most of keltullis player useing witch sabbath so if u try hard to remove this card , he will bring back this card next round! So counter this card is way more harder to compare than ixora , am i wrong?

[@LidsVidsTV]

Kelly is a really interesting card, design-wise. At low levels, it's effectiveness is usually based highly off of matchups; special-heavy decks can do very well against her, whereas decks that play a unit every turn can struggle. But it is usually pretty clear early on when an opponent is using a Kelly deck, and recognizing that quickly is one of the keys to beating it. It requires being really careful about which units you use, because you probably won't be able to play/keep all of them, but you can usually predict which units Kelly will destroy on every turn, which is really helpful to plan what to play and when

[@emilgrinderslev1654]

Agree with most except Ildiko. She just doesnt see enough play. And yes im a huge NR fan. Despite that, yes nerf Onager... I also might have a muta 6-4 deck prepared for 2 months just waiting for it :D

[@LidsVidsTV]

She's pretty popular in higher ranks - NR has so many orders, and being able to use them immediately makes it much harder to shut down units before they do their thing. It's a little subtle because it might look like it's the other cards with orders that are making the difference, but Ildiko's Inpsired Zeal-like effect gives those cards amazing tempo and consistency, mitigating what would otherwise be those decks' greatest weakness.

[@michaelallen9571]

Why are u quitting gwent

[@LidsVidsTV]

In all honestly, I haven't enjoyed playing it in over a year, and with the amount of time that I spent playing, recording, and editing videos for Gwent, it has been wearing on me for a long time. With that in mind, I've been looking for a good time to step away from the game, and now that there are no more new cards getting released, developer support for the game is stopping, the Balance Council effectiveness has been questionable, we've played all the notable archetypes for each seasonal events, the seasonal event rotations aren't going to change, and I've hit all the in-game goals that I wanted to reach, this is the best time to stop playing.

[@JPPPPotTs]

Sad I wanna join you with base power but my votes are tied to witchers trio maybe next time if the witchers make it through

[@LidsVidsTV]

That's fair, it'd be nice to have the trio all on the same power again, especially after just missing the mark last time

[@DeagleLas]

Agree with your general statement. Don't quite agree with most of your votes. All in all, I won't be able to vote this time.

[@LidsVidsTV]

Yeah, I played a lot more matches this season, and I think that made me specifically focus on targeting the top deck(s) more so this time

[@scrappycoco693]

agreed with onager and dao. rest are somewhat questionable and Master of Puppets change is just ridiculous. you are going to judge a card based on it being played in Masters? no regard for playrate and winrate? yeah sure!

[@LidsVidsTV]

Master of Puppets wasn't just _played_ in Masters, it _dominated_ in Masters (9:20). Master of Puppets on the last turn + Petri's Filter to give it zeal to immediately steal a boosted bronze unit was so threatening that opposing players _discarded all their bronze units_ . That's way too strong to ignore. It's a very newly-discovered combo, so it hasn't had much time to propagate yet, but given how impactful it proved to be, that combo has already and will continue to see more play. There's a case to be made for provision nerfing it, since that would have a bigger effect, but I would strongly discourage leaving that combo unchecked

[@scrappycoco693]

@@LidsVidsTV ​@LidsVidsTV I have watched all of myamons matches many times no need to show me that. But that was done in a controlled environment where each player knows the other persons deck and before the matches they decide on which deck to bring to the fight. Completely different from normal Gwent matches. Again, where's your data for it's winrate and playrate in ranked Gwent? Cuz nerfing something based on 2 matches in masters is just plain ignorance Was it that everyone was bringing a MOP deck to the masters? Was it that everyone playing MOP was just dominating? Was MOP a card that was so much prevalent in every deck? Tbh it was more of a meme deck that myamon (a genius) made it work otherwise try it for yourself and see how horribly it falls in many scenarios. My friend don't waste your vote! It can be put to good use

[@LidsVidsTV]

I've seen people use it successfully in the upper ranks - yes, it seems kind of memey, but it's hard to call it that if it works. If anything, it'd be more consistent when players can't see each other's deck lists to know definitively if the other person has Master of Puppets and Petri's Filter

[@harveybirdman2674]

Mofo got an excel sheet, like god dam 😂

[@LidsVidsTV]

Haha yeah, I threw together the Balance Council results and our previous votes

[@harveybirdman2674]

@@LidsVidsTV all good, just impressed with the investment, but that's understandable, cz with several balance council rotations into the future the game will prob become the best card game, I have that feeling

[@LidsVidsTV]

@@harveybirdman2674 Oh I work a lot in excel, so it was pretty quick to throw together. Just seemed like a more efficient way to organize all the results in one place

[@DLemass]

Why leave gwent?

[@LidsVidsTV]

In all honestly, I haven't enjoyed playing it in over a year, and with the amount of time that I spent playing, recording, and editing videos for Gwent, it has been wearing on me for a long time. With that in mind, I've been looking for a good time to step away from the game, and now that there are no more new cards getting released, developer support for the game is stopping, the Balance Council effectiveness has been questionable, we've played all the notable archetypes for each seasonal events, the seasonal event rotations aren't going to change, and I've hit all the in-game goals that I wanted to reach, this is the best time to stop playing.

[@Chronically_ChiII]

Nerfing/buffing leaders is generally a cop out, this being no exception. Not only are you wasting a buffing slot, you're also nerfing so much more than the order deck (which you're voting for 3 more times), and this "let's just nerf 4 things that we can correct later" is also flawed as the community is not coordinated enough to do that successfully. If you push too far, you're just gonna get the same thing as the NG revert, which yet again delays interesting changes. Normally I like your takes, so I'm kinda disappointed in what you picked.

[@LidsVidsTV]

I get what you're saying; as I said, this is potentially running the risk of overcorrecting, Inspired Zeal being the best example. On the other hand, I don't expect _all_ of these votes to actually win - Onager is very likely to get nerfed, but less so with the other NR cards. In case one of the more expected cards _doesn't_ go through, having one or two other NR cards here get nerfed may not be too bad.

[@Chronically_ChiII]

@@LidsVidsTVWell, oniger to 6 prov is already a 2 prov nerf to that deck, which is huge. Brawler got nerfed to 5 prov, and that put SY in it's place. Adding that extra leader nerf is undeserved and will hurt a lot of NR decks that aren't problematic. Unless you're just vengeful towards NR I think you're going too far.

[@LidsVidsTV]

As I've discussed extensively, while the "X deck lost Y provisions" argument may have some significance, it is not nuanced enough to factor how provision changes affect certain archetypes differently. As long as cards like Temple, Demavend, and Mutagenerator exist, NR will have ways to get disproportionate value from its cards, and for the game to be balanced, this needs to be reflected somehow. I agree that Inspired Zeal is probably the most debatable nerf here. - a former NR main who hates how much his once-favorite faction has been perverted so much that he refused to play it on principle

[@DrEVIL-mz2km]

Что не так с этими людьми? Синдикат в нереальной жопе, с огромным отрывом на дне сидит. А они его нёрфят. Зато баффают мусор который и на 3 провки дешевле нигде не заиграет

[@LidsVidsTV]

Syndicate is consistently one of the most powerful decks at higher ranks, but it is always less popular and less effective at lower ranks because it is more difficult to play.

[@bittersteel7922]

really bad take with ixora , master of puppet and ildiko. even raffard is fine I would say. main problem for NR is Kind demavand , temple , onager and now radovid vengence which def need a point/ prov nerf. And stop comparing ixora with kelly. it takes 8 coin and a spender which is really difficult to set up now a days .

[@LidsVidsTV]

As I said several times in the video, I am acting on the assumption that some combination of Demavand, Temple of Melitele, and Onager (which we are voting for anyway) are getting nerfed. All Syndicate decks can get up to 8 coins and all Syndicate decks have spenders; that's not difficult, especially not with Open Sesame and Conjurer's Candle. With those, Ixora's effect is very similar to Kelly's effect - they both remove the weakest unit, though in Ixora's case, it only removes opponent's units, unlike Kelly, which can remove your own units. There's also very little setup for Ixora incremental to what you'd already do for any other Syndicate deck, it's possible to activate her ability multiple times per turn, and she's just 8 provisions. Compare that to Kelly, who requires changing your entire deck to run as few units as possible to avoid that potential backfiring issue, which is not something that Monsters would otherwise want to do, and though Kelly has 2 more base power, that is not justification for Kelly costing 5 more provisions