HAAS Super Mini Mill 2 - Quick Review

[@maintayne]

Hearing you say you bought this machine because you were having trouble with your overseas suppliers...This is exactly why I am researching these machines. Thanks for the excellent video and your unbiased thoughts

[@billgreathouse1913]

I'm impressed! Being familiar with you problems and issues preceeding this video, you didn't rehash your problem with your previous attempt at a solution. Excellent professionalism and integrity.

[@JamesStaud]

I watched your videos after we bought our first HAAS and I'm glad we went with the VF2. Our salesman here in Texas recommended it over the super mini mill for the exact same reasons you mentioned. It hasn't been delivered yet but we're excited to have our first serious mill to make our parts. I definitely appreciate your unprejudiced opinions on these machines. There's so much noise out there on CNC Mills.

[@NerdlyCNC]

Awesome James. I’m stoked for you. My SM2 has been great and so has the service. I’m sure you’ll love your VF2. Thanks for the kind words. Jason

[@gemmaster9369]

James S Hı James, thanks for your comment. I am also glad that you are happy with your VF2. Will that be possible for you please to write down the details of your machine, price and tell me if it is a proper machine to work with stones (quarts, granite, marble etc...), to engrave and/or 3D cut, please? Of course in small sizes. Will be very much appreciated. Cheers mate.

[@CarlPugh]

Priceles. A rare super honest review. Thank you!

[@ruftime]

Glad it’s working out better than the Tormach! Great insights and caveats.

[@NerdlyCNC]

Canyon Racer dude. No comparison. This machine is the real deal

[@garygriffin3114]

Hello Jason I ran a HAAS Mini Mill 2 for seven years in a shop with six other cnc's. I was impressed with the ability and performance. I glad we had the usb input installed. Biggest problem chips getting on the taper of tool holder, HAAS should figure how to put the coolant nozzle on the left side of spindle. Good luck with your shop.

[@deanneumann8594]

this video as well as your Tormach video are really the most trustworthy reviews of those respective mills to be found anywhere on the 'net. Much appreciated.

[@ISILENTNINJAI]

This video is also perfect for seasoned veteran cnc machinist who are trying to go on their own and own their shop. Dont play yourself down man. You know waaaaay more than some of the people I have worked with.

[@jadesluv]

You talked me out of a Mini Mill 2, I decided to go for a VF2, the video on the VF1 was enough to convince me to go with a HAAS, the VF2 is only 3K more than the VF1 for a 10“ larger table. The VF1 looks extremely well made. I am going to get a new one financed because used ones havent depreciated much and a new one gets you the latest controls and software. 1 second ago

[@richcanfield1387]

Wow!..Great insight on your experience. I saw your first video on the Tormach debacle! I have been using a Tormach 440 for about 16 months. I am one of the lucky ones since the mill is working "OK"... tolerances have been acceptable up to now. Used at our company for engineering prototypes, passable results, not used daily, and no production work to speak of. Thanks for your honest reviews of both machines! I will be checking out more from your site!

[@Factory400]

I chose the mini-mill 2 primarily because it was the biggest machine that I could fit under the door of my garage at home. In my previous shop I started with a TM2, then a VF2 and VF3 (with 5 axis trunnions). I would have gone for a VF2 if my garage door was bigger. The mini-mill has been amazingly productive for my relatively small parts. Despite its small size, it is not really material limited - I can cut pretty much any machinable materials. Obviously, the limitation is part size. Good points - the Renishaw probe is worth every penny. I got the high flow coolant and mist collector, chip auger is a must, 15k spindle is very valuable when using small tools.

[@allantheguywhousedtoridebmx]

Hey Jason, at work we have a Super Mini 1 and 2 (2015 modle year). This will all be about the 2. I recently did a job in the 2 that involved a LOT of roughing (6061 Alum) At one point I went through the same X limit issue. Called the local HFO and got the same answer. "It's under the left side cover." Nope! It's under the white cover on the BACK of the table! It's a really quick fix once you know where it is. The table height issue, I'm 6'3" so I love how high it us but we have a guy who's 5'3" and he made himself a ~6" high platform that he flops down in front of the machine when he runs it. I also find the lighting rediculus! If there was another light on the other side..... Perfect! I don't like how loud the spindle is at 10k rpms! The 12k spindles in the VF's are quieter at 12k than the Mini's are at 8k! Furthermore, the chip evacuation is absolutely unacceptable in my experiences. I literally had to grab a snow shovel and dig the machine out every 3 parts! (The order was for 2200!) Will I buy one when I'm ready to do my own thing? Hell no! I love the Haas control and for the most part, support, but the issues are far too great! (With the Mini's) VF series all the way! (We also have 2 Super VF2's at work)

[@新新朱]

I really like Haas's machine. I see that Haas is making a lot of maintenance videos. I think NGC is a good choice, because all the videos released now are based on NGC. These videos may help more people. After all, these services were previously charged. And the price is not low. thank you for your sharing.

[@manueljesus3147]

I almost made the mistake of going with a mini mill. Went with a fully loaded VF2SS with the probe and 4th axis trunioun. The HAAS HFO is good but they have a lot going on so the youtube channel has been a good help.

[@motorbreath22]

You are doing a lot of people a great service with this review.

[@edupuertasfruns]

Interesting conclusions, can't wait to hear about the syil when it arribes. I am between ordering a Optimum Machine f3 or the Syil. My problem now is that my shop has not trifasic and very little space. Also with Optimum I will have assistence near my city and no custom issues... But, kind of analising everything now.

[@Eagle031265]

You can install a voltage converter and if you get it hooked up to your electricity net it migh reduce your power bill as well. Greetings from Costa Rica

[@Wabaanimkii]

Love your channel. I’m a rookie machinist and I try to learn all I can while off the clock. Someday I plan on owning my own mill and lathe setup for at home and these videos are fantastic. New subscriber. Thanks!

[@TheFalconJetDriver]

Thanks for being so honest! In the early 80’s I was a Field Service Engineer for White Stundstran, I can remember setting up machines at a trade show in Chicago and many foreigners were taking lots of photographs of our machines. I approached my supervisor about it and he blew it off. Two years latter I was out of a job due to the Asian competition. A few years latter I perused my passion of aviation learning to fly as a teenager and became a pilot for a living. I still enjoy making swarf and chips as a hobby.

[@Kmn0219]

Yaaas, the EAST rises

[@curtwarkentin6167]

Excellent review and information for potential new business start ups to think about. I cant wait to see more of your honest and thought out videos.

[@Dallasjcutler]

You're comments were exactly the things I went through when I was deciding on the VF2 vs the SMM2. I had the luxury of researching for a year with a Tormach running my proto parts to find out the details of if a SMM2 would work for me or if I would just regret not making the jump to the VF2. The big issue of course coming down to power and needing a phase converter. I ended up with a VF2 (not an SS, side mount wouldn't fit through garage door so I didn't have a choice) and its now been a year of use. I certainly think a VF3ss would be super cool to have but even after all I've been through I have never felt I was limited by the machine. Its mostly my own skill level in setup or CAM that limits me. Things Ive added, I only got rennishaw probing with mine. But it became pretty obvious that I can do 30-50cim in aluminum without the machine really caring much. That means chips fill the bottom REALLY FAST! I bought an Auger within a couple months and while not perfect, it gets 75% of the chips out with no input from me. The last bit I just scoop the chips forward and push on the auger. Every once in a while I'll scoop out the pile by the exit that builds up in the morning when its dry. Honestly it seems the auger should spin the other way and that wouldnt even be a thing. Next Im planning on just getting the HSM option to leave on full time instead of toggling since I do a lot of 3D work on the suspension components I make. Anyways, lets see some limits pushed on this thing for fun! I know people always want to see what it can manage when roughing. PS. check us out on IG ( instagram.com/ssb_design/ ) and we'll try to follow you there too.

[@richlash4806]

i am a journeyman machinist of 28 years and i agree with everything you said in this video. spot on

[@BluCoastPrecision]

Ahhh, I have a mini mill on the way. I've been in the industry for 16 years and normally run a umc 750 and mitsui seiki hu100x. I just went with this machine so it'll fit in my garage.

[@ydna]

good video jason! Unbiased and reasonable. I know what you mean about the tall table...I hear that from people often. About the alarm troubleshooting stuff, to be honest I think it's because they want to push towards service calls rather than self-repairs. They used to publish service manuals which were the same that HFO techs utilized, but they stopped as you noticed. (although the same old manuals still apply to many problems and machines). Also I've found that while Haas might want you to pay for their calls, the HFO usually doesn't want to piss you off and instead will help if they can (HFOs are completely separate companies after all). But it varies depending on the company and personnel...

[@170cuda]

Excellent review. Thank you for posting.

[@Espressoforge]

Thanks for your honest review! I went through the same selection process and ended up with a Brother S500X1. Prices with an IMTS discount are probably about the same as what you paid for the super mini mill. For me, the killer on the mini mill was that access, especially with the coolant tank. You mention you won't do flood coolant, so it probably won't matter for you, but I've heard it's a nightmare to clean out as it's not removable. FYI, I requested to my salesman and got a CAD file of my machine, use it for mockups with tools and workholding, has been helpful as many people said you would need riser blocks for a Brother without a 4th axis, which for me turned out not to be the case with an Orange vise. I haven't taken delivery on the Brother yet, but I'm hoping it turns out well, unfortunately with these type of purchases, you have to just research it like crazy up front, and hope you didn't make the wrong decision. Freight and rigging alone just make it not even worth sending back or selling (assuming you'd want to).

[@Espressoforge]

Oh! Forgot to also mention, the S500X1 isn't that large, and only needs a 30 amp, 3 phase breaker. I'll be running it off the 2nd size Phase Perfect, but you could run it off the smallest size too if it's just for the mill.

[@PatrickSoriano]

EspressoForge congrats on the S500! I ordered one myself during IMTS, cannot wait for it to arrive and start making some chips

[@Espressoforge]

Thanks! Congrats to you too. Yours was probably the same, but mine came with the toolsetter and 3k tooling budget. I didn't add in the touch probe, for me I don't know how much I'll use it, but I'm thinking about adding one later if a 3d tester is a hassle.

[@KafaTek]

EspressoForge Congrats on Brother!!! Fantastic choice. Get the spindle probe though. Its worth its weight in gold!

[@PatrickSoriano]

EspressoForge EspressoForge I went for the tooling package, tool setter, mpg and override. I reaaaaally wanted the spindle probe, but I held off on it as well. Going to pick up a Tschorn 3d tester for the time being, read great things about it! Question for you, what are you working with as far as air and keeping it dry?

[@bud11729]

Nice video, I am a machinist and have ran many Haas machines. They are good bang for your buck. And the fact that you aren't talking about crashing your probe ( very expensive ) tells me that you are doing well.

[@CSSIandAssociate]

I want to thank you for you Honest Reviews. I was going for the Tormach because of NYNCNC but some things kept telling me the HAAS was better Note I am a novice at this. However, I am not one that likes to be dupped! AKA.... Lied to to. Thanks for your informative videos. You have save a lot of people many hours of anguish/frustration. In addition forums like this keep Companies on thier toes. Terrible about what happened with Tormach I suggest small claim court. They will give you your 2K back easily and that is your funds....

[@tomliemohn624]

I bought a MM2 from a buddy for my gunsmithing shop. It doesn't get run nearly enough to justify the expense of the purchase. But for what I do, the jobs it gets, the size of my shop, power availability, it's been good gear. I too would take a VF2 if I had the amperage and shop space for it. I do have one complaint that I have experienced with my mill and also the mills at the shop I work at. Getting the cutter comp to work sometimes is a no go. I program with Mastercam, which could be a thing with Mastercam and the combination of the Haas control. The other machines I've run have been a VF3 and a VF4 and they too experience this problem. It takes a better programmer than I to figure out those problems I guess.

[@NerdlyCNC]

Tom Liemohn in HSM works I use “in control” and make sure there is a negative value in the wear column in the tool table.

[@watchere]

what happened to your tormach video? Been looking at getting one recently

[@donaldhollingsworth3875]

With any milling machine of that size or lager needs to be anchored into the concrete floor using threaded rods & leveling jacks on its own foundation. This way keeps any vibrations from other machines & forks lifts moving your machine. With most machines you only need a 8 to 12" thick foundation no matter what the machine tool manufacturer says unless the machine weighs 20 tons or more. At GE we went overboard with our foundations. Most of our foundations were 5-6 foot thick which was over kill.

[@mythril4]

I ended up with a Fadal 4020 in very good condition. I chose the Fadal over the Haas because no one outbid my $1,100 bid at an auction. So $1,100 later at 10,000lbs, I am cramming in huge machine center into a small garage. My neighbors are sure to have a laugh.

[@ElixirCNC]

Well, how did it go with the Fadal? I bought a Fadal VMC-15 at an auction and I’m blown away by its capabilities for it’s price.

[@4DModding]

We installed 2 LED lights (left and right) and wired them in direct because of the problem as you said with an umbrella changer.

[@rydinorwin]

whats that probing system??1 Thanks, great video.

[@DCT_Aaron_Engineering]

G'day Jason. Congratulations on another excellent video mate. You are cranking out the material now. OMG, I nearly fell over at 5:25 mate. Thank you so much for the shout out. Hope you enjoying your break? Talk soon buddy. Cheers, Aaron.

[@rgcrowman3188]

Hey Nerdly, you showed us a picture of a mini mill that was already converted to full CNC but I can not get on the web sight, do you have another place for us to go to, to find a fully converted mini mill to purchase

[@captainmcderpyderp]

I like the balanced review. Keep it real

[@Studio603OnTheAir]

Jason, I really enjoy your straight forward review about this machine, and about your review on the first machine that you had that didn't work out for you, I used the PC440 for a little while at work when we needed to make one-off parts, as it was a good introduction to machining, we were soon to experience it's flaws, tolerances and limitations, it ended up being donated to a maker space and that's all I can say about that. I work with cad to design a lot of custom parts and have a cam tab that I usually program for cutting parts, As I would like to get a 5 axis machine to really speed up machining parts, the balance in price and need get skewed, what are your thoughts on just using a rapid prototype shop for parts that you send stp. files of parts to to be made weighing on the option of buying a Haas and doing it yourself, have you thought of this route in your journey?

[@sambuchanan5915]

Honestly I wouldn't lose any sleep over your purchase decision. If you think the jump from SMM2 to VF2 is big, do a quick eval on the jump from a VF2 to say an Okuma and you'll feel much better. The grass keeps getting greener all the way up to 1 million bux.

[@chriswhite6882]

you keep it so real man I love it

[@andyvan5692]

interesting review, i am a beginner at this, is the "DOS" type coding needed to run these machines,(what most Haas videos show) easy to get ones head around, esp. if one has only ever used the hand wheels on lathes etc ? and if one is wanting a first mill would the v f 1 still be a good choice too, keeping in mind I live in Australia, and don't have the American contacts, the ability to "try before you buy", etc. that you do seeing as you live there, if I assume correctly from your statements you made on the tor mach video. PS: this is the key reason people are scared of HAAS, the computer side of programming these things, most of us are "real" machinists, ie: we like using our hands to control things with our sense of touch to guide us!!, we are hesitant to give all control to a battery and c.c.d. screen!!

[@NerdlyCNC]

Hi Andy, many resources to learn both CAM , "computer generated toolpaths" and good old fashioned G-code.....have a look over at Titans of cnc. the haas control is super easy to learn. Cheers, Jason

[@rgetso]

But what about the power requirement difference between the MM2 and the VF2? Will the Haas technician install a VF2 in a shop that does not have enough amps to cover the maximum rated current requirement of the machine?

[@mrmojavedude4050]

You can get a used Fadal pretty cheap these days, and there is still a ton of support out there, $10k would get ya twice the machine, Just have a tech do some checks, Way,Ball screw,Spindle life. I have 2 that I had in an rented industrial bay, With 6 older Mori CNC lathes, I down sized, Now have everything in a 900sq ft home shop and do rather well. Had to work with the electric company to run all this stuff, But now have 400amp service with a 25hp rotary phase converter, This stuff on the used market is dirt cheap, I dont mind getting my hands dirty and do my own service, and have been collecting parts for many years now, I been in this biz since 1983, started my own shop in 1989, Been at it quite a long time now, No offence, But would not catch me dead with one of those cheapy mills :0)

[@iamtheomega]

yeah i primarily used the vf2, awesome machine, tried the MM2 which was a tad candy ass in comparison but hey it worked for what i did.. how about harbor freight strip light? great info thx

[@aleksandersuur9475]

The key to running any machine economically is uptime, that's why buying your own one or two cnc machines almost never works as a cost saving measure. A proper machineshop with bunch of machines and proper scheduling will always be more economical in making parts. What your own cnc offers from business perspective is flexibility, you get machine time on demand whenever you need it however you need it. If your coal is to save costs, then you don't need a cnc, you need a good contract with a machineshop.

[@steveg2951]

I spent 30 years working as a CNC Service Engineer and a Haas Outlet Service Manager. The Haas Mini Mill has killed the CNC retrofit business. You can't buy a manual mill like a Lagun and install a control like an Anilam or Fagor without spending much more than a Mini Mill costs. Another thing Gene Haas did was create the unpaid bill alarm. When you see a message saying to call your dealer, the machine will shut down in 200 hours, believe it.

[@Robert-ko6wr]

Why couldn't you have called HHAS and asked them to take back the mini mill back for a VF2 and pay the difference plus restocking? Seems to me life is two shot not to get what you want to do the work you need to do. What are you running in April of 2019?

[@jdaz5462]

Jason. Your HFO should have came out to fix your machine for free instead of having you do it. Your machine is under warranty. You don't need a repair manual, just a phone to call tech out.

[@NerdlyCNC]

they offered to.....but i didnt't want to wait.....if using the air gun wouldn't have worked i would've waited.

[@KafaTek]

Nerdly I had same issue on my Mini Mill, technician stopped by and showed me how to clean it out. You need to take Y axis way covers and clean underneath. Its part of normal maintenance. Its unbelievable how much crap ends up there.

[@NerdlyCNC]

awesome. thanks for the advise...i'll get in touch with my tech

[@dumptrump9134]

Mori only. Mori machines hass parts

[@gemmaster9369]

Nerdly Hı mate, thanks for your comment and review on this machine . Will that be possible for you please to write down the details of this machine, price and tell me if it is a proper machine to work with stones (quarts, granite, marble etc...), to engrave and/or 3D cut ?? Of course in small sizes. Will be very much appreciated. Cheers mate.

[@charlesbeasley3866]

Yeah Every Haas I've Operated, had a Floursecent light above it, close to the head but out of travel limits

[@maxprocnc9052]

Jason good video, glad you are happy with your minimill. I m sure comparing to Tormach is a massive gap but i have to tell you that comparing Haas to brands like DMG Mori or GF+ Mikron or Okuma is a milestone. In the long term you will notice that Haas can no longer deliver what you want.

[@NerdlyCNC]

Interesting...I have seriously been considering upgrading to a VF-2 but I was recently contacted by someone from Mazak. I guess we'll see what the future holds.

[@DoosanDude]

It really is only slightly better than a hobby mill. Its probably a machine you'll own for 5 years wherafter you'll buy a more solid build. Machines are changed often, dont expect the same one if you order another few months later. Software is buggy, released for their customers to de-bug for haas. Service is great but once you're out of warranty get ready for some big Bill's.

[@rfengr00]

Have watched several of your videos, but have not figured out what you manufacture?

[@Trumppower]

Rumor says Rc Parts

[@DanielMecatronica]

Love your videos. Maybe after you’ve made some money with it, you can sell it and get the VF2

[@NerdlyCNC]

Daniel M that’s the plan. Just heard Back from a Mazak rep.

[@bostondan77]

If you sell the mini mill, give your fans first dibs before you consign to a seller ;)

[@sp1nrx]

A serious question: what kind of building limits the 208v service to 40 amps? That sounds like an office building... I have a small shop with 208v/200amp service and that's not really that much when everything is running. Comment: I once had a hobby machine and upgraded to a 40 x 20 x20 Cat40 VMC. I've had it for 13 years and while I was excited at first it turned out not to be the machine it should have been. (it is *NOT* a Hass VMC). Buyer's remorse is common and I would not have bought this particular machine "had I known", so I can sympathize with you.

[@ydna]

The electrician was probably totaling up the breakers and trying to stick beneath the "total" value of the main breaker (200 amps or whatever). But in reality that's overkill, no reason to artificially limit yourself.

[@dangrimes5078]

Was it a Fadal?

[@duckslayer11000]

The table height is perfect for shoulder injuries 😂

[@NONAMESLEFTNONE]

Did you investigate/research any other brand of machine? (Beyond Tormach and Haas.)

[@NerdlyCNC]

NONAMESLEFTNONE we looked at Automate CNC , and a Brother but the support / learning available online for haas was unparalleled. And for a non-machinist I wanted all the help I could get. I would definitely buy another haas.

[@zomie1]

What was the issue about the 40amp circuit that you said you found out more about later?

[@NerdlyCNC]

my bad....40 amps is a full load for the SM2 and 70amps is full load for VF2 but thats no where near nominal......depending on what coolant set up you have these machines arent't likely to pull the full amperage draws. What i had eluded to in the video is that....if my salesman knew the truth about current draw, or had asked about clearance beneath the umbrealla tool changer. i'd more than likely have a VF1 or VF2 with a sidemount tool changer.

[@zomie1]

thankyou it is helpful with the debate between the mini and vf series

[@LuislopezCNC]

Great video! Thanks!

[@TheMetalButcher]

I'm guessing there is a lot of other features on that part otherwise a lathe seems super obvious.

[@snazzyriza9518]

How tall is the Table? I am 5' 4" and have trouble with Mills already! 😂

[@NerdlyCNC]

Snazzy Riza 40”

[@snazzyriza9518]

@@NerdlyCNCjezz, that's too bad but still... The Harrison lathe I have is just like perfect for my hight. 👌👌

[@JeffPedlow]

Maybe I missed where you said it... but it sounded like the Super Mini Mill 2 fit your power needs for a 40A/3P circuit ... does the VF2 fit in that same power requirements range?

[@NerdlyCNC]

Jeff Pedlow a tech told me that I could’ve easily ran a VF2 for my application. I never take super heavy cuts and I don’t Run High pressure TSC coolant. Apparently TSC can draw quite a bit of current. Long story short. Most of these machines don’t draw anywhere near what the company has them rated at depending on how they are configured.

[@EZ_shop]

Very informative.Thanks

[@James-dk2kx]

Out of curiosity, what makes you consider the VF2 over a DM2? Not as many tools?

[@che3se1495]

The DM2 has half the horsepower of a VF2.

[@dangrimes5078]

Can someone please tell me? Does a vf2 require much more space than a mini mill? What about the height?

[@glockasauruswrex6362]

Yeah, the last thing a machine tool manufacturer wants is the customers going in n playing with the limit switches. Not like they DON"T KNOW where they're at bro. Your X axis limit switches on under the table in line with the rails. And yeah, in the Mini Series they are not as well covered as a VF-2 would be. I supervised assembly of both lines at the Oxnard factory.

[@NerdlyCNC]

oh forgive me.....i thought when i paid for something i owned it. lol

[@glockasauruswrex6362]

@@NerdlyCNC You own ur car...do you go n play with the sensors??

[@NerdlyCNC]

@@glockasauruswrex6362 yep...i sure do...i have an aftermarket mass air sensor. :)

[@extradimension7356]

@Nerdly Also , probably had you posted your application / looking for a new machine / trying to decide on a new machine on PM forum those peeps might have steered you in the right direction... There are a lot of HAAS mini-mill vs VF2 threads. At least it's a good platform to discover HAAS in a big way if that's gonna be your thing from now on as you expand.

[@NerdlyCNC]

EXTRA DIMENSION agreed. Live and learn.

[@extradimension7356]

A lot of the middle and lower end MTBs hide in the "Murk" or make things difficult to discern but I thought this video that HAAS put out showing the build and alignment of a VF2 (almost 30 minute video) is pretty useful/ helpful… Here's the thing probably had you seen this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6SapYOne9l1iKc then probably that would have tipped you to the Vf2 (I reckon) (or a better machine with hand scraped contact surfaces). [But from the video you can see that the column is not ribbed or that thick / light weight... and the connection from column to bed is not hand scraped and they use shims... so for about $70K a Hardinge Bridgeport V1000 is a LOT more machine or similar Taiwanese Quaser "rig" very powerful rigid and more accurate machine for the $]. [No affiliation]. Years ago I bought probably the first Tormach ever sold, serial number 0000000...0007. I really believed in Greg Jackson's concept (he was the founder of the company (sadly passed away more recently))… But I have to say when the machine arrived I was absolutely appalled couldn't believe it (thought about a small sideline business rebuilding these machines lol)… And from your videos all these years later NOTHING has changed basically the same problems that I had back then still persist... Ridiculous. I mainly bought the machine to test out some 4th axis moves and SW I was writing. I have a lot of engineering experience before then and machining and other. SO... Now I approach things from trying to buy absolutely the best machine I can possibly afford and take the biggest steps leaps and risks as I can (within reason) to grow my company. I tend to plan in groups of three to five machines and then also plan out 3, 5, 7 12 and 15 years ahead. MAZAK is not bad for that and their financing can offer decent strategies for your business. I used to buy everything outright and have zero debt but now the financing thing seems like a better idea.

[@tomahawkcnc5583]

I also have a super mini mill , a good machine but I won't ever buy another HAAS , the controller is too locked down , you can't even access such essential parameters as spindle encoder setting which you must change when a belt is changed. The only option is to get a tech out to set it for you at HUGE cost if no Hfo near you .

[@seriousCADninja]

Bottom line is... Get a VF1 haha!

[@jonathanwilliams7387]

Which model Kurt vise are you using in this setup?

[@extradimension7356]

@Nerdly OMG @9:35 … My local HFO did the same thing in terms of sales progression and pitches but did also steer me to a VF2 as being the most popular and for good reason. First I was wondering "Dude" why are you almost yelling into the camera... (we can hear you) but now I get it ;-) lol. The problem is that most sales people are actually not that knowledgeable and you really DO have to research the "snot" out of these things (+ every permutation) with a high degree of scrutiny and leave no stone unturned. TaKes a lot of time to gain decent confidence with such things and to make sure that you don't make fairly chronic blunders/ gotchas for you application. Unfortunately it is 100% your responsibility to find the right machine for you, not the sales people.

[@NerdlyCNC]

EXTRA DIMENSION agreed....I assumed, wrongfully, that my sales guy knew these machines well. Oh well. Live and learn I just heard back from Mazak. So who knows what the future holds.

[@extradimension7356]

I had been researching machines for the "Next level" mainly 5 axis but did a ton of work ploughing through 4 and 3 axis stuff too. Probably gonna be pulling the trigger on an I-200 (Millturn B axis system). The MAZAK guys in LA (aerospace center of excellence seems really good IMO). None of these MTB's are "horror story" free and kind of depends what patch or period MTB + vendor/ reseller + region. Which does suck as some of these machines are hell-atiously expensive and smaller guys like us are taking proportionately much larger risks. Feel free to "Buzz" me for stuff / second opinion on some of the MAZAK offerings and other.

[@NerdlyCNC]

EXTRA DIMENSION the Mazak stuff looks amazing.

[@extradimension7356]

I feel like their slogan should be "Better than Haas" and some people make the joke that Mazak is the Haas of JAPAN lol. They "own" a massive chunk of the market space in the middle ground. It's interesting to me that MTBs don't really tread on each other's toes too much in terms of market space. So systems from Makino and OKK and Okuma etc. etc. are going to be much more expensive. In terms of price performance MAZAK can be very good (depends what you are doing). I think they have designed extremely well for their market space and are number 1 (volume of sales) AFIK. Haas does very well too, but I wish wish wish wish HAAS could one day make a better machine as it's almost tragic that the US machine tool industry apart from Haas and MAZAK Kentucky barely exists. Begs the question WHY do the most competent machines have to come from Japan, Germany and Tawian (and South Korea in some cases) ?

[@bostondan77]

Does anyone know if a VF2 is an option for a home gamer? seems like the price difference between the SMM2 and vf1-2 is negligible but having only 40amps single phase in my garage- smm2 seems to be the only option.

[@Espressoforge]

Check out a Phase Perfect PT-330, they rate them for up to a 70 amp single phase input, but I got a PT-355 and will run it a bit under amps. If you call them up they will tell you how many continuous amps it can supply and how many burst amps. For example, if you did have the full 70 amps it will supply 36 amps 3 phase continually and up to 150 amps for 4 seconds before shutdown. In practice, this will power a pretty decent sized motor. The VF-1 says 30 HP, but no mention of if that is continuous rating or a 4 second rating. Based on what I've read, it looks like a momentary rating and is probably in the 15 HP actual range. The best way to figure all this out is call up Phase Perfect and ask if they've had people run X machine off of what you have available. Also, don't be afraid to find out what it would cost for another 100 amp run to your garage. Compared to the cost of these machines, it can be pretty inexpensive. Give yourself some power overhead is my opinion, you really don't want your CNC machine shutting down due to amp or voltage problems.

[@Duschbag]

I'm watching this after your Tormach Disaster and I think each & every one of your questions on these two companies lack of effective support are completely warranted. I find it unfortunate that HAAS is not better at responding to a customers questions on their new equipment performance issues. Dont give up..!

[@NerdlyCNC]

Warren Pouyer my HFO has been pretty good. All in all I’m happy with my haas equipment up to this point.

[@dylanrink3130]

thought the manual was in the control on the newer stuff idk

[@robguyatt9602]

Oops, aligning Tormach machines with converted Grizlys, home made etc. would have riled Tormach big time.

[@NerdlyCNC]

our 1100mx has always been plenty capable and easy to use.

[@robguyatt9602]

@@NerdlyCNC I almost bought one back when AUD was above USD. Now we are back down to about 2/3 USD. :(

[@taffbats]

I would never personally buy a haas after what happened to me whilst working in my last place..I worked with a 2013 tmp2 and came in one morning and powered it up as normal. .msg came up saying lost its language file..I powered every down turned off master switch at the back and went into the cabinet to ensure we had back up parameters just in case which we did on an USB. Went to power back on and now nothing but a white screen. . Called haas they came out and for no apparent reason the main control board had failed! !!!☹ 3 weeks and 8 grand later they replaced it...thank god it was works machine ..that episode sent a clear msg to me..never buy a haas

[@Trumppower]

So are you going with Tormac? Or super expensive machines?

[@taffbats]

@@Trumppower I work with prototraks and xyz's now.

[@retoxxx1]

I also have tm-2p , kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIO1eYh5qNaki9E An acquaintance also bought a Mini Mill2 in 2015, but he infuriated him. Especially coolant tank in the frame. Less than a year he sold it, a very unsuccessful machining center at the price-capabilities.

[@DRrandomman22]

Yea you definitely have to shop around and do some work for your self. And its amazing what an extra 5 grand can do its like cost per dollar sometime the "economy machines" are not so economic lol

[@CAULEYJR]

I see its for sale on ebay. Why are you selling?

[@NerdlyCNC]

switching to japanese machine. are you looking?

[@ScotY808]

How much was the Renishaw option?

[@NerdlyCNC]

right around 5k

[@leggazoid]

After adding options the Haas is expensive. I like Leadwell, Fryer tool or Sharp CNC brands,

[@madtexmex5305]

When companies invest money on new equipment they buy top of the line 5 or more axis. The mini mill (a fancy drill press)you are limited on the components you can produce and the mill sits idle most of the time.

[@NerdlyCNC]

mad tex mex our mini mill runs a lot.

[@Genxpoppy]

Mazaks good.

[@3JS2001]

Haas make the best machines for the price!

[@blue03r6]

haas controls are a fucking nightmare. they need to scrap it all and start over.

[@Dr_Do-Little]

When you can call the "online techs" by name. It's rarely good sign. No matter how good/nice they were.

[@georgeowen2083]

Corporation stupidity don’t tell the customers where a switch is because they are worried about what? That you are the competition? Like if you were another CNC machine builder you wouldn’t just tear it down to reverse engineer the machine. So they choose to dick around their customers that spend the money on their over priced cnc machines!

[@skipperrichman4278]

sad support from haas, I've had Tormach mills for over 2 years and the support I have is second to none. It may be just me, I'm sure others may have issues but myself. I give them 10 out of 10. Just saying.

[@erikhart2625]

Solution: get a used VF-1/2 or Fanuc Robodrill I like the Mini Mills, but they feel really wobbly

[@airgunningyup]

interesting , thank god I don't have 46,000 bux (-'

[@slap_my_hand]

>10000€ machine >"hobby-style"

[@tophan5146]

slap_my_hand hobby doesn’t mean cheap. Hobby planes or submarines can also be expensive, for example.

[@Alejandro-vb2fx]

You should have bought a Vf2 hands down, you really limited yourself by purchasing that small of a mill.

[@NerdlyCNC]

Alexander Pritchard agreed

[@Alejandro-vb2fx]

@@NerdlyCNC I wasn't trying to be rude either just saying.. the Vf2 is an incredible machine and isn't that much larger.

[@NerdlyCNC]

Hi Alexander....i understand....i didn't think your comment was rude at all?

[@Alejandro-vb2fx]

@@NerdlyCNC I just read it again and I sounded kinda like a dick lol.

[@kvom01]

Do you have the power to run the VF2?

[@r.bjefferies8183]

Jason, you sound like a really good person. You are very informative and i bet fun to party with. Now on your tormach review being someone who's been a machinist for many years i got your complaints. However in your newer videos you are really bitching way to much

[@NerdlyCNC]

i call it like i see it. I own my mistakes and live life with a spine :)

[@r.bjefferies8183]

Nerdly i get that, its the only way to be. I learn the same way. I did get a lot out of the tormach video . I like you look at the spec sheets, and i expect what I buy to perform to the advertised parameters. Ive used haas machines many times and love them. One thing you did open my eyes to was there affordability. I know that the " sticker "shock when you first spec one out is like damn! But the more i look into them and the many finance lease and even refurbished options they have the more I'm looking that direction.

[@SuperLanyard]

Good idea. Buy a mill to do lathe work.

[@NerdlyCNC]

it all worked out :)

[@127069]

Haas makes the real money from service contracts hense lack of info

[@sambuchanan5915]

Newbie mistake - the KVA rating on the machine is always inflated so machine manufacturers can cover their asses. That's because a machine will never max out spindle, axis, coolant, and conveyor motors all at the same time. I would never skimp on wiring, but I can usually get away with a circuit breaker 1/2 the size of the one recommended. 1/2!!!

[@typingcat]

"Let's get going." -- continues to sit on the same place.

[@timccormick4561]

You should consider a USA Mighty Viper LRZ series VMC with a FANUC controller. USA Mighty sells machines with chip conveyor, high powered lighting, 110 gallon coolant tank. 1800 IPM rapids. 15HP with 12K spindle. 30 in. x 20 in. y table about 20 in the z. 24 tool side mount magazine. CAT40 tooling. All these items are included standard. Their philosophy is to sell a complete machine and not to option more money out of the customer. I would think you could get all this for the starting price of a Haas VF2SS. www.mightyviper.com. Bo Jean is the VP of marketing located in Torrance, CA. They specialize in super large bridge mills, but they sell VMC's and a type of robodrill also.

[@NerdlyCNC]

Ti McCormick thanks for the heads up. They only have two videos on KZbin videos and don’t have pricing on their site. At this point I’m probably gonna into either a VF2 or Mazak.

[@127069]

+Nerdly I was a cnc repair / rebuild tech. Be mindfull that mazak part prices are evil! Ten times the machine you pay. Six months ago I fitted a new spindle motor to a large mazak, cost was £9000!!

[@leggazoid]

I have heard that Mighty Viper is a good brand.

[@Planetary13]

@@NerdlyCNC Have you considered Milltronics? They are a USA company, I think they are good. I've worked their machines as well as Haas VF2 & 4

[@meocats]

sounds to me you got suckered on that tool changer

[@JuanHernandez-ub3ez]

Yo hass doesnt want you to make your own cnc

[@Fr1day-RT]

Machine lighting is never awesome. MSC sells machine lights so you could add an extra one or you could get a high quality flashlight with built in magnet like a Nebo.

[@signsell]

Life's lessons are expensive. Third time is a charm.

[@danielmachado6750]

Daniel Machado - Brazil.