Hail Hydra Review - with Tom Vasel

Tom Vasel takes a look at Hail Hydra, a social deduction game themed after Marvel Comics!
00:00 - Introduction
01:12 - Game overview
06:36 - Final thoughts
BGG: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2...
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[@randybieri]

The suggestion of sleeving the smaller cards sounds good, but then it looks like they won't fit in that sweet looking insert. :(

[@Seedy_Sea]

I played this at GenCon and I wasn't really sold. Since everyone was required to play a card every turn, it seemed difficult to actually ever tell what anyone in particular was doing. And even if you managed to sniff anyone out, you really didn't get too many benefits from doing so. You just knock them out for one round, and only if you just knocked out a villain. After you get to the last round, there isn't any benefit at all to playing unrevealed since you took no penalty for being revealed. I don't feel like this game would get any attention at all if it wasn't Marvel and will probably die out pretty quickly. And this is coming from someone that was immediately drawn to the game because of the theme.

[@paulrumohr]

Haven't played but this is an interesting point. Thematically, the superheroes would never welcome back someone they thought and voted was a traitor in the first place. Hey, this new round we think this other new guy is a traitor, so come on back and adventure with us, sorry about kicking you out a few rounds ago. When someone is eliminated in Mafia/Werewolf you know if you're closer to eliminating the other team. But in this game, it seems that there will always be Hydra agents in there that are impossible to ferret out because of the way so many people throw cards into a pile and it's impossible to determine who threw in what. I get that games with player elimination are not fun. But ejecting someone for one round based on useless conjecture, then NOT finding out who they are and then having them back on the round after they sit out seems utterly useless. For fans if the game who have played, am I missing something here? This does not sound either sensical or fun...

[@lokihve6591]

Some good points here, The reveal and no penalty for it is a bit werid, I am guessing there is the following reason though: You can reveal yourself early and thus help your fellow Shield agents identify the bad guys, but you have done so and spent your power which if I understand is a one time thing. On the other side Hydra agent may want to do the opposite idk....

[@tedferkin]

Playing this tonight, will comment back on how I felt about it

[@robertdullnig3625]

I just imagine that in Tom's playgroup, Jason is always the first person to be knocked out.

[@FlavioMarceloSousa35]

Yes and it's no joke. That's terrible if you're working with classes of teenagers: they will take it personally and rally against the weaker elements of the group. Board games are supposed to promote friendship, not conflict and bullying.

[@kevinsayers5985]

This sounds good Tom. What do you like better between this and Burke's Gambit because correctly that is my favorite social deduction game?

[@turks1966]

Will you be doing a live play-though of Hail Hydra?

[@bricelory9534]

A reason for me to play BSG over others IS that it is a long, tension-filled experience. I do agree these mechanics probably have similar sorts of tension, but I personally see room for both games, especially if a group enjoys social deduction.

[@mikec5563]

Agreed. There are definitely times where the shorter deduction games are great. But I still love the epic tension that BSG can bring.

[@WickstarRunner]

Tom has moved squarely into Zee territory over the last two years in that he's been preferring shorter games over longer ones. This is probably due to the demands of DT, but I do find myself disagreeing with Tom's opinions far more often than I used to.

[@mikec5563]

He has mentioned previously than in a lot of situations, he would rather play multiple great games instead of one super long game. Given how many phenomenal games we have these days, I don't know if I can blame him there

[@bricelory9534]

I get the argument in essence but don't agree with the premise that a short game can deliver the same experience as a long game. Tht isn't to same every game should be longer, and I frankly enjoy many shorter games. However, length of a game necessarily affects the experience. A short game, for me at least, are less memorable because I think even though I am not competitive by nature, shorter games have even less at stake. Especially in the social deduction genre. If the game is very very short, there is very little tension - like One Night series - you don't care if you get exposed at all. Slightly longer games, the deduction is more significant as is the need to stay hidden. Very long games like BSG which - and this part is critical - have enough game-based interest to warrant their length, can be extremely memorable for the amount of tension, the choices, the scrutiny and deduction can open up a lot more. Shorter games that offer streamline experiences of longer games, which is what the Dice Tower usually talks about, can offer similar experiences as the longer game but usually at the cost of significance in the experience itself. I disagree with the implications that being able to get more games into one period of time is better than having one long gaming experience. Sure, you may have only played one game of TI4 when the other group played 5-6 games, but pne of those groups is much mors likely to remeber the experience of playing their selection. I think in board games, since winning really doesnt matter much - there are typically no prizes, etc. - time becomes a big factor in establishing significance for actions and games. If someone ruins a strategy you have spent one turn building, no biggie. But if you have been spending 10 turns to get to this strategic point, getting disrupted is much more meaningful to you: even if both resulted in the same game state. I believe the same underlying principle is at work in game length in general. With all of that, I do love short games, but I think it is better to say that a streamlined game has a streamlined experience - and if it replaces the longer game for you, it is because you were only seeking the mechanics and decisions that were left standing. Hail Hydra has interesting deduction and is long enough for some tension to build up, but I would imagine individual playthroughs of it are less memorable than a play through of BSG. I have no problem of someone says they like Hail Hydra better and sill never play BSG again. I just think the"same experience in less time" argument is flawed.

[@natelinhart114]

Dangit.... was going to play this at Gen Con but didn't line up with my schedule!

[@ripwolfe]

I saw it at GenCon as well -- didn't have time to take a look at it though; now I wish I had! I'm not big on most social deduction games, but this one sounds quick enough, light enough and not-over-thinky enough to appeal to me. Great review, Tom.

[@007Kiristo]

How do you think this compares to Dark Moon?

[@Toledo2bateacher]

I wish I had more friends to try the game, but my game group is most of the time 3 people. That is why I can’t play my copy of one night. This game looks fun and my friend Steve would love it, but he is part of the game group. The only time I get to play games like this is if it is a New Years party and we get up to 5+ people.

[@matthunt6306]

I have the same problem Jeremy... Looks cool but won't get the numbers to play it.

[@hardbathsalts3143]

Third.

[@nickhayes1626]

I love the artwork in this game, such a wonderful looking game. I hope that I get a chance to play this before too long.

[@sharpzin]

Why those great games doesn't come to Brazil?

[@themaster408]

I love social deduction games and have not gotten tired of it. This makes me so excited, especially because I LOVE BSG to this day.

[@Cloudrule]

Thank you! Looks very fun!

[@LuisPandabmb]

Time for you guys to do a live play.

[@Organous]

That's the only thing that would convince me to pick this up. I'm all for a cool social deduction game, and recommending this *over* ONUW is high praise, but there are too many red flags to me. * The tension *seems* largely based on the number of cards played during offensives. Are you sabotaging the team, or did you just end up with an unlucky draw full of bad cards? This is just a little too shallow to me. Hopefully the player abilities help this information a bit. * When knocked out, you are not allowed to give cards randomly. This is practically impossible to enforce. Yeah, even without a physical act like shuffling or rolling dice, I can still give effectively random cards if I'm totally clueless about who any particular player might be. It's to my benefit to make educated decisions, like handing some strong red cards to tempt someone into using them, but I should have the option to randomize. In fact, I'd be suspicious of someone who randomizes the giveaway, because they don't care about the success of the mission. In a social deduction game, every action is potential information, including the choice to randomize. This rule is dumb. It's a minor gripe, because a good player will always choose something, but I hate this attempt to strongarm strategy. * The gameplay looks incredibly basic. Theme is important to me, and I've seen enough superhero games to care that much more about how thematic it feels. I just don't see a real connection with a player's actions and those of their character. I would've actually been more in favor of approaching a game closer to BSG than moving away from it. If Toms says it's better than ONUW, I challenge him to prove it. I really want to take that recommendation to heart... but I just don't feel I can here.

[@masu33]

"You might wanna sleeve this" And then, trash the insert... :/

[@iveo83]

better than deception murder in hong kong? Or different?

[@steffenakairule2825]

Too big difference. But I like Deception a lot. The theme and artwork will fit more people.

[@woj_kal]

Do The villains have much harder in this game ?

[@sebasrez]

No, I was part of his game group that played as Hydra and we really took it to the last round. Such a close victory for shield, which made it all the more exciting.

[@theodorehsu5023]

You wonder if they brought Phil Coulson into this game. I could imagine him telling Red Skull with no problem: "Welcome to Level Downed, Punk." Because he's the one who brought the modern folks to Marvel Cinematic Media.

[@hiroprotagonist4023]

Special abilities can be used once per GAME, not round. That's a pretty important distinction...

[@SoloBluePrints]

Why is the box so big when it could be a much better small box that’s easily transportable

[@bgm-1961]

Have you played 'Tortuga 1667', yet?

[@joeyrules316]

very fun! one things i dont like is the game ends to randomly but everything else is great.

[@joshsimons7214]

Salem1692 is an also excellent SD game

[@rasmusolesen5307]

Keep hydrated and hail hydra XD

[@MichaelJones-yp8gj]

I like the way everything looks except for the tiny cards

[@eVanDiesel]

Hitting the table TONIGHT hopefully!

[@sortehuse]

Isn't it a problem that so many people get kicked out of the game?

[@TheCodyFrost]

Anyone "knocked out" is just out for the next round, not for the whole game. Also, they have to pass 2 of their attack cards to another play, which may add to the tension of trying to deduce which side they are playing

[@sortehuse]

Okay, thanks. That makes a lot more sense to me now. Sounds cool.

[@paulrumohr]

Cody Frost thanks for the rules clarification

[@SilverKeyMan]

Game looks awesome, and I'm a big fan of Marvel. On a side note, I like your fabric hat (Ivy cap? Driver's cap?) than the one (Fedora?) in this video.

[@Ekwah51]

Tom.. But did you like it...didn't hear what you said over all the shouts of glee! 🤣

[@christopherchild4022]

Could there FINALLY be a social deduction game that I like? Should I get it it...? Well, what the Hail; why not.

[@NoNo-bc6ho]

I recomend Avalon, it's my personal favorite out of all the social deduction games.

[@Dalmatinac3]

Is this kinda the same feel as Secret Hitler

[@ubiquidade]

Is it better than secret hitler?

[@koenwijnants6499]

better then deception murder in hong kong ?

[@steffenakairule2825]

2 very different games. I Enjoy Deception a lot. And its more neutral theme which more people will fit.

[@user-hk5fo1nm9h]

This looks like a worse version of resistance though, are you sure you’re not being too kind because of the production?

[@Quincy_Morris]

Played it twice. It’s basically unfinished. Despite its excellent theme there’s no deduction in this “social deduction” game

[@winnie666]

Seriously. He played it dozens times over a week. And you have never played it. Maybe he's lying. Who knows?

[@EclecticCamel]

I would accuse Tom Vasel of having poor taste before I'd call him a liar. Let's not get out of control here.

[@SuperPilotMike]

I don't understand this game from the review. How do ever figure out who is who if you all play cards every round and shuffle them together? If you can reveal yourself but still play cards then what is the point of even trying to figure out who is who?

[@Bodyknock]

Stop making me spend money, Tom!! :)

[@tigertemprr7276]

So why did this get more praise than Dark Moon? It seems like an even simpler game but still takes 40-75 minutes. I mean, Hail Hydra still looks fun, but this seems like a skin/theme for an already existing game mechanic/system. Not being able to sleeve loyalty components might cause issues later on. Plays fewer people. All that said, Dark Moon's art is atrocious.

[@Bodyknock]

Dark Moon wasn't actually as streamlined and simple as it sometimes gets credit for. Yes, it's simpler than Battlestar Galactica which was its inspiration, but it's not simple compared to things like Secret Hitler, for example. It also had a little bit of wonkiness in the way the dice worked. Hail Hydra looks to be more on par with something like Secret Hitler in terms of complexity and play time. Tom explained the game in five minutes and it felt like he explained pretty much the whole thing. The Marvel theme and production in this is also a big plus, Dark Moon is ok but Hail Hydra appears to be aesthetically much better looking. Plus if you're a Marvel fan that's a nice bonus here.

[@tigertemprr7276]

Yeah, I think this looks much more visually pleasing. They really missed the mark with the John Carpenter's The Thing in space theme they went for in Dark Moon, character art for Luba being a prime example. I also agree that the dice/player shields + in/out tokens feel a little clunky and we often have to remind new players of the various steps necessary during every player's turn/task/crisis.

[@ericmatthews9673]

Dark Moon is ugly and it felt like the production quality was closer to something from the 90's or early 2000's. Stronghold's biggest weakness is the art direction and Dark Moon is a perfect example of a missed opportunity. It was fine, but not something anyone at my table was in a rush to get back to especially with the rush of better producted social deduction games that came out after.

[@kencolborn1057]

I love the idea of Dark Moon, but we found it very easy for the uninfected team to win. It is very rare that a mission card is failed so it is very rare that anything bad (shield, outpost, fatigue) gets added to the board...which means the beginning of the game is very boring because nothing seems worrying at all. Granted we play with 5-7 players so it is very easy for more than half of the players being "in" on a mission with a minimum of 3 dice to roll (everyone "out" is picking up 2 more dice for next time)...making a success usually guaranteed. Rolling 3 dice also makes it hard to tank a mission without getting caught because of how rare it is that 3 dice will all be negative. (there is a fan expansion on BGG that helps this a lot) I just wish there was some more difficulty in the game.

[@AlphaMike2k]

Homeland plays like this

[@johchadow]

In about 2 hours, and Homeland is very fiddly also.

[@fishizer]

Is this really comparable to BSG??

[@AkmalGameAtion]

Eh not really its just a really good social deduction game

[@2power2power79]

0:57 it's satisfying

[@angrytheclown801]

I tend to avoid IP games. My main fear is that in ten years or so the IP will be forgotten all about and so the novelty which most are centered around is gone. Might get this since Marvel might die one day but won't be forgotten.

[@jwspiker]

buttt it's not the battlestar theme, see, BSG theme fits so very well. deduction theme works so incredibly well with BSG due to the theme of the series, and deduction being such a core theme throughout the series. still hoping we'll see BSG 'short' version done.

[@Igtenio]

Have you taken a look at Dark Moon?

[@jwspiker]

it's not BSG themed or at least not licensed. The deduction side of BSG, just meshes so well with the theme, i think they wanted dark moon to have the bsg license at some point, and it needed it.

[@MeanNGreen17]

Jason Wayne Speicher Well Dark Moon was called BSG Express before. If you wanted it bad enough you could make your own.

[@jwspiker]

yah, that's the name i couldn't remember, really wish they would have kept it in the battle star universe. marvel theme is a little appealing, but BSG was such a perfect fit. Here's to hoping we'll see dark moon rethemed into BSG express someday.

[@davidpeterson5179]

Wow I did have an idea at one point for a BSG card game, this is really close to my idea, it would work with BSG theme definitely.

[@clumsydad7158]

i don't want to judge or state the obvious, but Tom REALLY likes Marvel themed stuff, it's his wheel house

[@Brend0ver]

Dang Tom, my wallet can only take so much. Ordering this and 5 minute marvel now...

[@FawziBreidi]

on prime day this game is for less than $10

[@Vaole]

What a surprise, the game is not complex and Tom loves it.

[@thedicetower]

Yes, that's exactly what I said/thought.

[@TriplePalindromous]

Isidore seems like a very simple game as well. I can't recall at the moment what he thought of THAT game...

[@TheCiderDrinker]

I recently played this at our local games group recently and I don't think I've ever seen a game fall so flat so quickly! As other people have said, there's almost no way to find out who is a Hydra agent apart from sheer dumb luck, plus there's almost no reason at all not to play blue cards if you're shield, unless you literally can't. There was no tension, no excitement, and at the end I think everyone was just glad it was over!

[@FlavioMarceloSousa35]

The artwork is gorgeous but the game looks like complete crap.

[@Quincy_Morris]

This game is so bad it’s basically unfinished. Without mind reading there is no way to know who Hydra is. It’s nothing like BSG which actually has evidence that can help you figure out who is who