Learning and Evolving From Past Practitioners (6): Chen Fa'Ke 陈发科

[@stillnessinmovement]

important point, not just how it looked but what they actually did to gain skill.

[@deanherde805]

Thank you for making this video. I trained in this direct Chen family lineage for years and have done training seminars by Chen Yingjun, who speaks with great regard and respect for his grandfather Chen Fa’ke. Sorry, might be great grandfather. Your knowledge is exceptional and we’re so lucky to have access to it.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Must be great grandfather. Thanks.

[@nao16395]

李書文は八極でしょうか？？

[@Javi-po7xz]

Gracias, seguimos... 🙏🔥🦋

[@cyw7552]

感恩先生 用心推廣 中華武學 非常珍貴 有時以母語 傳授 更是功德無量 遙拜 新春 家人安康 客似雲來

[@HaiYangChannel]

谢谢您。将来一定弄。

[@AppledogHu]

Thank you!

[@jonathanryan1153]

Thank you very much for this video, it's nice to see and hear this type of analysis.

[@aznous]

谢谢老师的视频🙏

[@HaiYangChannel]

您客气，欢迎多来。

[@MichaelSmith-ze3iv]

Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed it!

[@hongdewuguan]

Thanks

[@jimpassarelli1986]

Im not sure if you are aware that one of Chen Fa'ke's students in Beijing, Pan Wing Chow, brought the Chen Style to Taiwan in 1950 after Mao came to power in China. Pan Wing Chow taught for decades in Taipei. In turn, two of his students, James McNeil and Paul Wen Pei Chou, currently teach Chen Tai Chi in California and throughout the United States.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Hello, I am not very familiar with many people in the West. Sorry for my limited information. Chen Fa'Ke did not change his teaching before or after 1949. If so, it should be an improvement since with time, his teaching improved, according to Chen Zhaokui's statement.

[@taijiquanfirenze]

Evolving the Path Is the main idea...

[@chentaijitraditionalberlin]

In Chenjiagou we learned that Xiaojia, when it arised, was called also "New frame" ( Xinjia), as it differred from the usual chenstyle that was practiced in Chenjiagou. Chen Wangting's Taiji was not small frame, but more like what we call "kung fu" today. More, shorter forms with more kicks, jumps etc. Later, the forms became longer, slower and became finally Lao jia Yi lu and er lu.. Later, Chen Fake's spiral form was called Xinjia, so Xiaojia remained finally as small frame.

[@HaiYangChannel]

There are so many different versions of claims in that place. But, we have to clarify the truth by ourselves. Conflict of interest has greatly affected the academic integrity at that small village. Fortunately, there are still written records about the development of Chen style Tai Chi. I practice the big frame but I do not deny the historical fact that the big frame came to exists much later.

[@chentaijitraditionalberlin]

@@HaiYangChannel ´Just look at the history of the forms and their movements, and things get very clear

[@HaiYangChannel]

@@chentaijitraditionalberlin Yes, you are right. However, it depends on what you are looking at in terms of history and movements.

[@LINDA-de-J0NG]

Hello Master Yang, I am a new subscriber and very happy with this wonderful channel - your information is very helpful and inspiring and the questions your community asks are great. If I may, I have a question, but as I am not sure whether this is the correct pathway, I understand if you do not find the time. Should you have the time, that makes me lucky. Sometimes I see internal kungfu practitioners sink to the ground with one leg, kind of like a pistol squat. However, these extremely strong people have their upper leg nearly horizontal - I have only seen toddlers do this; squatting down, heels to the ground, back straight, crown raised, knees far away from the shoulders and their upper legs horizontal. It must be strong upper legs, obviously, but also extremely strong lower legs, it is like the lower legs "grab" the ground. What is the key to this posture, because my butt sticks out as I go down into the squat and my upper legs are quite vertical, rather than the horizontal posture of these practitioners and toddles. This has baked my brain for a while now and who knows - maybe you know the answer and I can train towards it with the necessary key I am currently missing. See you in the next video, many thanks again.

[@taijiquanTV]

Great video 🙏 The first time I met my shifu Chen Yu, who is Chen Fake's grandson, he told me 用意也用力 🙂 Thanks for your efforts and also clarifying some misconceptions to a wider audience!!

[@HaiYangChannel]

Yes. He spoke the truth.

[@KenGullette]

Very insightful. Thank you.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thanks,

[@Gurkh77]

Hello Master Yang. It is very interesting to learn about the practice of the Masters of the past. It's inspiring. Dao De jing sheds a lot of light on practice. Thank you! I'm wondering if you interacted with such a force as Ling Kung Jin (if I call it correctly) And are there such methods in the practice of Chen Shi Taiji? All the same, in order to transfer the effort, you need to at least touch the enemy.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Ling Kong Jin is a term used differently according to its definition. I will find a chance to talk about it.

[@jotrakoun]

I appreciated the section in the earlier “Learning and Evolving” videos where you discussed limitations and drawbacks of earlier masters’ practices. Do you see any limitations to Shang Yunxiang and Chen Fa-ke’s methods?

[@HaiYangChannel]

Nothing is perfect.

[@jaychino1621]

Thank you Master Hai Yang for making these videos. Can you make videos about Hun yuan taiji created by Master Feng Zhi Qiang?

[@HaiYangChannel]

Yes, I will make one in the future.

[@Purwapada]

great! I have been wondering about training with heavy weapons for a while. I feel inspired by the photo of Fu Zhensong with the giant Bagua dao. It wold be interesting if you could talk about the main weapons of the internal styles and how to train with them, I heard before you mentioned that Taiji movements are based on guan-dao(?), xingyi is the spear and bagua is the sabre (although it also has many other interesting weapons - so which to choose?) Thanks

[@HaiYangChannel]

Sure. will do it in the future.

[@Purwapada]

@@HaiYangChannel thanks so much!

[@jonmanilenio]

Okay, so Chen Fa'ke's grandfather, Chen Changxing, was the teacher of Yang Luchan... Does this mean that Yang style Tai chi is an offshoot of Chen style Tai chi or Yang Luchan already established Yang style before and was only influenced by Chen Tai chi? Because you also mentioned that Yang style was the first Tai chi style to be taught outside of Chen village, does this mean that before Yang Luchen was taught by Chen Changxing, he was already teaching his Yang style Tai chi outside, or did he just start teaching it outside of Chen village after he was taught by Chen Changxing?

[@williambreazeal387]

Yang was an indentured servant in Chen village. I believe the household he serving in had Chen Changxing as a martial arts instructor. Yang learned Chen Taijiquan from Chen Changxing (a Da jia master). He was also instructed in Chen Taijiquan by Chen Qingping (a Xiao jia master). This later instruction may have occurred after he was released from the household he was serving at. After his release I believe he returned to Yongnian and taught martial arts there. At some point he injured (or possibly killed) someone during a challenge match. As a result, he left Yongnian and went to work at a pickle factory outside of Beijing. Word is at some point the factory was attacked and Yang drove off the attackers. This resulted in him teaching his Taijiquan in the pickle factory. The aggrieved family from Yongnian tracked him to the factory at some point. Rumor is, as a favor, the factory owner recommended Yang to the Imperial family (or an associate thereof). He entered into the service of one of the princes and eventually served as an instructor in the gunpowder battalion along side Song Mailun and a famous Eagle Claw master (family name may have been Liu). Yang was also a friend of Dong Haichuan (Baguazhang founder). The two places that Yang spent the most time teaching were in Yongnian and the Imperial city.

[@williambreazeal387]

There are older versions of the Da Jia still being taught. One of them is the lineage of Du Yu Ze in Taiwan. Du Yu Ze was a student of Chen Fa’Ke’s father. That form still has several of the posture names seen in the Yang family Taijiquan form.

[@jonmanilenio]

@@williambreazeal387 so is yang style an offshoot of Chen style?

[@williambreazeal387]

@@jonmanilenio Yang Taijiquan was developed from the teachings Yang acquired from Chen Changxing and Chen Qingping. Both of these Chen masters taught Chen Taijiquan.

[@trym2121]

Don't know your definition of off shoot. It is officially known that Yang Luchan learnt taiji from Chen village. He modified the art to his own preference and spread it. You can see similarity in forms between Chen and Yang Long form, with each has their own peculiarity Even Yang style nowadays have branches like Michuan and Cheng Manching

[@dragonphoenix_kungfu]

I have a question. Silk reeling exercises were first introduced to me as silk reeling qigong, but I have not seen many other references to it being qigong. Are the Silk reeling exercises created by Chen Fa-ke to be done as qigong or should they just be regarded as foundational movement exercises?

[@HaiYangChannel]

Will answer it next time.

[@seanmoxley4642]

It's interesting that his disciples Hong Junsheng described taiji force as a "perceived" force in that it's actually the opponent's force used against them through structure and rotation. This definition does seem to be at odds with stories of Chen fake breaking bricks underfoot and such, but perhaps he means this perceived force is the more advanced application of taiji and overt use of force is not necessarily wrong. Thoughts?

[@diablorojo3887]

great video, but now i am curious about the other styles of tai chi, the only ones we ear about are the ones that evolve from the Chen school, and why they dont belive tai chi chen is "tai chi"? is that a big of difference?

[@HaiYangChannel]

Good question. I will answer it in the coming Q&A.

[@nao16395]

僕は極真空手をやっています 中国拳法の良いところを取り入れて 練習しています