Which Style to Choose: Contrasting Xing Yi, Ba Gua , Tai Chi (9)

[@Juan0003]

I have to say this: the reason why I kept contact with Master Yang Hai is that it's not often that you encounter someone with such a deep knowledge of Chinese Martial arts, has a great positive attitude and is actually looking for ways to help you and improve your practice. I had a couple of experiences with so called martial arts masters (and grand masters) before and left feeling cheated. They say that when the student is ready, he finds his teacher. And that's what happened to me. To this day, even if we don't practice together, in my mind he is still my teacher and has my full respect. In this video he gives great advice. Know what your end goal is. This will not only guide you choosing a style as a beginner, but will also guide you though out all your martial arts path. From trying all three internal arts before settling on one style, I could see what really reached me. At that point in my life, I needed to "vent out" a lot of energy, so the Fajin development in Xingyi is what drew me. Today, maybe different goals could be better for me, like the more "relaxed" pace of Taiji. But, from my experience, the more you practice Xingyi, the more you find complex and subtle body mechanism and in it as well. So I may stick with that a bit longer! ;-)

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thank you, Juan. I appreciate your comments. I always learn different things from each other too!

[@crossroadsaccountingtax6326]

This was a graduate level seminar. Very, very good analytical presentation

[@KlausBeckEwerhardy]

Again agreat video I'd like to offer the image for contrasting the styles from our school as addition to your metapher: Internal arts are a bit like a burglar. Xingyi kicks in the frontdoor. Taichi looks for an open window. Bagua makes use of the backdoor. (another one might be: Xingyi is a line. Taiji is a wave. Bagua is a circle.) A nice weekend to everyone.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Interesting:) Thanks.

[@gabrielf4750]

This Sifu s teaching is very articulate ! What a gem :)

[@HaiYangChannel]

Glad you think so!

[@maduroholdings]

I want to really encourage new students to follow Sifu Hai Yang’s advice not to spend equal time between styles in the beginning. I practice Bagua and hsing I simultaneously but Bagua was primary for about 10 years then hsing I for 5 years now I blend them. My finding is is if you walk a lot of circle your hsing I will resemble Bagua if you stand in a lot of santi your bagua, will resemble hsing I. It is due to how the body sets up. I know very little but this much I do know, walking circle trains stillness and standing trains movement, I know it seems backwards to say this. But it is what I have discovered walking circle teaches you to find stillness within many changes. Standing teaches you movement while in stillness.

[@HaiYangChannel]

It is good to know that you teach. Thanks.

[@maduroholdings]

Hai Yang I don’t teach I am just a practitioner

[@HaiYangChannel]

Oh, sorry for my misunderstanding.

[@roebloxy9986]

I recommand practicing bagua, xingyi and tai chi at the begining. When you understand internal martial arts, learn Liu he ba fa 🤷

[@rionuevo5008]

Thank you for your contrasting analysis and for not giving direct advice!

[@Relicarious]

Thank you for these videos. I only just realised that it was your very xing yi videos I kept coming back to some 12 years ago when I wanted to know more of this art. Sadly, I am nowhere near a teacher. I moved to London to learn back then, and kept visiting for a while after moving home to Denmark again, but ultimately I had to stop traveling and have not maintained my training for years. Your videos are very inspiring to me, and I am thankful for you sharing all these insights. I found myself out on the floor trying to let the dragon roll, and I must say it felt like I could use more of that sort of thing!

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thank you for sharing the experience with us. It is interesting that you still remember the video that posted 12 years ago.

[@wagonron]

Excellent point about different end states: we do not all get to the end, so we do wind up in different places. I've never heard such an insightful distinction. Considering your observation, I'm guessing that Tai Chi maybe a good choice for the widest variety of people. I am enjoying this series. Thank you.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thank you. I am happy to know that my video can provide a bit help.

[@jonathanrousseau7093]

Very useful vidéo, thank you very much for its clarifications. I better understand the way , and better understanding for the rest of my martial pratice ☯️

[@ivannegri7724]

Thank you for your teaching. A little trivia: in the movie The One, Xing Yi is the art practiced by Evil Jet Lee, and Bagua is practiced by Good Jet Lee, in my opinion it is the best advertisement for Xing Yi, besides the arbitrary morality part, also the alien in the movie Prometheus uses Xing Yi to defeat the humans when they awaken him. I will practice Dragon Rolling, but I am so stiff it will take awhile to do it properly.

[@elzer91]

My interest for both arts began from watching The One. I am currently an elementary student in Xingyi myself but I intend to take up Bagua in future as I like the look of that style more but I believe Xingyi first will set me up with a more solid foundation for the Bagua (and Taichi, if I somehow gain a deep interest in it). Like, even the good Jet Li in that movie seems to began fighting with a Xingyi form first before he realised he was outmatched and switched to a Bagua stance later on.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thanks.

[@ericstrickland9866]

This is something one would have to think upon and weigh things out in their mind to make the best choice

[@JPGPakua]

I find that the practice of "tea cups" in Baguazhang is a wonderful way to warm up, but I will begin using the Dragon Rolling exercise. This cleared up the Wu Wei issue for me also. I also find the definition of flexibility you gave makes much more sense than how flexibility may be defined outside of martial use. I think these videos will only grow in popularity and be applied by many real martial artists! Peace and blessing to you and yours, Master Yang.

[@HaiYangChannel]

You are very welcome. By the way, what is the tea cups practice? never heard it before... /thanks,

[@JPGPakua]

@@HaiYangChannel I filmed myself doing a tea cup... I didn't do them justice as I reviewed the video but I am short on time, I hope this might help you identify these movements. youtu.be/LR8Tw80b3

[@HaiYangChannel]

Hello, interesting. I think I saw the same practice on youtube before. Do not remember when and who was the person... anyway, thanks.

[@maduroholdings]

Thank you for another great video. Lesson. I was very fortunate to have a teacher who understood bagua and hsing I very well. We were taught to spend much of our time either walking circle or standing although he preferred standing, he felt that whatever fighting movement you practice, would simply fit inside the vessel you created in one of the two methods walking or standing, to this day, I will either walk 100 days at a time or stand 100 days at a time. And I look at palm changes or element fists as means of expressing power derived from either my walking or standing practice.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Yes, agree with you. Thanks,

[@robpace881]

I love doing all three

[@itsreal4738]

Wow, that was an incredible breakdown! Very interesting to hear a comparison of these 3 styles. Thank you!

[@HaiYangChannel]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Cosmic_Mage]

This is an awesome channel Liao Shi Yang! Very useful intellectual and practical information.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thanks.

[@yishnir]

Wow. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.

[@giamweiming4618]

Thanks for your highly enlightenment. I enjoyed hsing i ,pakau n taichi of sun lu tang for 38 yrs. Finally i combined them using 5 elements forming 64 method . This consists of pakua 10 , hsing i 12 n tai chi 42 total 64 method. I group them into 5 elements of 2 cycle n 2x5 = 10. The 5 elements are water, wood, fire,earth,metal n cycle another time . As they are group together their function are similar n easy to remember. Fire is exploding upward. Metal is chopping doward.Water is force of upward n down ward. Earth is hitting side way. Earth in taichi is cloud , hsing i is crocodile, pakua is unicorn. All has same motion. So it goes all the way until the 10 elements is completed n forming 64 method . We need to just remember each of the 5 elements strike. I still follow the original that was taught to by my master . But in addition i use the 5 element of each pakua hsing i n taichi which is easy to remember. The 64 method are variations of 5 elements which easy to remember n counter opponent attacks . Why ? 5 elements are energy flow from one type of force to another in smooth transition. It also say opponent use metal ..split force it can be neutralise by fire element. 5 element also meant that a method can be use as defend n attack. In taichi peng in neutralise throw the opponent upward n uproot him. In attacked it can use as like high pat on horse to hit the opponent chest. This is my 2 cents of sharing. From Richard Giam n thanks for reading

[@HaiYangChannel]

Interesting.

[@onedirection3510]

Excellent content as always. I think it would be wonderful if in the demonstration segment of your video and especially if you had a partner or a student to work with you could consider demonstrating the differences in the three styles from a basic attack. From there perhaps you could suggest some correlations of self-defense responses from different body types,tall or short or muscular or skinny or fat. This is a fascinating topic in general. I would have guessed that the fajin would be equal to all styles depending on the ability of the practitioner. Bagua is known for its whipping body so I would’ve thought it has the greatest fajin potential. Thanks!

[@HaiYangChannel]

Hello, thank you for your comment and suggestion. The reason that I do not put a lot of physical demonstration is that it is a theory focused series. And it depends on the audiences to digest the theory and apply them in their own practice.

[@Ninja9JKD]

Thank you Master Yang!

[@TaiChiInternational]

Very interesting parallels of styles and unique point of view! Thank you ShiFu!

[@HaiYangChannel]

Glad you liked it and thank you too.

[@pgskills]

Truly interesting and informative presentation, Sifu. I found your summary of the differing fundamental combat strategy of the three styles very logical and it follows very well from everything you've spoken of throughout this entire Contrast series of videos. I also really appreciate your definition of flexibility in martial arts. Such a clear and concise way to help people understand the different meaning of the term 'flexibility' in a martial arts context as opposed to the ways it is defined/pursued in arts like yoga or dance. I am starting to work on the Dragon Rolling its Body movement that you demonstrated here and am enjoying it very much. It's such great flowing movement to improve flexibility, balance, and footwork all at once! Truly valuable. I wonder if there are any other variations of that exercise that you might care to share at some point? If so, it would be much appreciated, Sifu Yang. I know you said here that this will be the conclusion of this Contrast series, but I was wondering if you still think you might find it interesting to share some of your knowledge about how the linear and zig-zagging step routines of Xing Yi and Ba Gua can be more clearly distinguished from each other. I find this topic even more fascinating after hearing your thoughts on the probability that the 'Original' system taught by Dong Haichuan did not include full circle-walking (likely introduced by Cheng Tinghua) but instead consisted entirely of the linear/zig-zag/circular stepping sequences. I truly hope you speak about this topic at some point. Thank you so much for being so generous with your knowledge of the internal martial arts in this series. It's been extremely informative and helpful to me in many ways and I am truly grateful. I hope you and yours are doing well, Sifu Yang.

[@HaiYangChannel]

First of all, thank you for your comments. Yes, there are different exercises and I will introduce them one by one in the future. Yes, I will make a video to talk about the topic that you mentioned. Thanks,

[@hagbardc623]

Paralogical thinking is so important to understand the paradox of action & nonaction. Balance between extremes seems to me the most important esoteric secret of Daoist thought. Yes?

[@HaiYangChannel]

Yes. I think so. thanks.

[@bobcindydelmanto9019]

Very informative video. Thank you! I am not a MA practitioner, and I’m almost 50 years old. I have always heard that Kung fu and Tai Chi will take you to the same place eventually. I never understood that before now. Funny thing is, if I had to guess, I would choose Ba Gua, but I came at from another way. I’m interested in the deer antler knives, used with great effect in the Ba Gua style! It looks graceful while being athletic and deceptively powerful.

[@bobcindydelmanto9019]

The little note about the Last Airbender was cool too. I never watched the show, but I’ve seen a video showcasing the different styles used by the various characters. As I consider different movies I've seen, it occurred to me that Jet Li's The One featured Xing Yi and Ba Gua, although hyped up for an action movie.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thanks.

[@guzman4662]

Thank you very much for this video! Very useful and interesting observations. I hope to have the chance to meet you in Italy as soon as possible.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Italy is a country far away. Thanks:)

[@hunghuydoan]

Thank you Master Yang Hai. May I contribute vietnamese subtile for weaking english people? You give us alot of valuable knowledge.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Sure, that will be great. I hope more people will get help from different language support. Thanks.

[@marek8734]

Great teaching and helpful advice!!

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thank you.

[@yougkuan9198]

Sir; Your making my day. I have been waiting for this knowhow and backgrounds. You are coming right on time. Thank you so much for the inspiration and blessings for your awesome future efforts. ^_^

[@HaiYangChannel]

You're most welcome.

[@Whiskey_Tengu]

I always find value in going back and re-watching older videos. This time around, and not sure why I didnt notice it before, but I realized you used Fu Zhensong as your photo for reference of Baguazhang at around the 17:25 mark. I am a long time student of this lineage so that was a fun moment to see. Have you had any familiarity with that system of Bagua or worked with anyone from that lineage before? I saw him referenced again in your weapons video showing Bagua with the Large Broadsword. Or was it just coincidence for a picture to reference? Thank you, again for being such a great resource for information and understanding of the internal arts and their philosophies.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Fu Zhensong should be a great martial artist. But I am not very familiar with that school. Thanks,

[@epon007]

Thank you Sifu Yang. Your explanations and method are clear and effective. Could you elaborate a little more on the advantages of Ba Gua for health purposes based on Chinese Medicine? Thank you. EP

[@HaiYangChannel]

Great question. I have a plan to make a video about it in the future. Thank,s

[@frfrpr]

Wonderful information

[@IThinkSoBrain]

I'm torn between xingyi and bagua. I would love your advice if you are so inclined. Once your online school is ready, I will be among the first to sign up. I spent ten years training 4 to 6 hours a day, but that was 20 years ago and a really enjoyable desk job ago. I'd like to recover what flexibility, stamina, and power I can. Being 50 really drove things home.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Hello, thank you for your comments. 4-6 hours a day is a lot!!!

[@IThinkSoBrain]

It was. Sadly, I had bills to pay and at least the job is fun. But I loved it. It's in the blood and bones. I'll have to start gently, but I'd like to be up to 2 hours a day within a year or so. Not a kid anymore, but I'd love to get back part of what devoting myself to my work cost me.

[@thunderflower7998]

Do you know from history...the Emperor's bodyguards in Beijing were they Bagua or Tai Chi Zhang practitioners? Thank you for the nice lectures learn wholeheartedly. Greetings from Greece.

[@HaiYangChannel]

I know about this history. Will talk about it in the future.

[@harryli1026]

讲的真好，真正的海外传道。

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thanks.

[@gary6110]

Thank you Sifu! This is a question I have grappled with for years. I flip and flop between Tai Chi and Bagua. Tai Chi helps me with the stresses of daily life. Bagua's beauty keeps me mesmerised, plus it seems to keep me more physically fit. Would love more information on which of the three arts keeps you the most healthy and fit. I noticed a lot of middle aged practitioners with big bellies. Is that because they neglected certain aspects of training like conditioning? (Or just a lifestyle thing.) Would love your opinion.

[@HaiYangChannel]

I think many factors can contribute the big bellies for middle aged people... I am very careful by myself after 50 years ago. I will think about it and if I can find a good answer, then I would like to share it with you. Thanks.

[@esiegel2]

as a many years student and practitioner who has always had to struggle with weight gain, big bellies are the result of too much fat. Nothing magical. Often the fat is below the muscle, the most dangerous kind of fat, and so the belly feels hard. That was my situation, and I deluded myself into thinking that I was developing relaxation and strong abdominal muscles. That was true, but I was also gaining many pounds. I have to admit that I question the commitment and self-honesty of masters who have big guts. That said, I know some very fine martial artists who have too much fat.

[@HaiYangChannel]

haha, many people get a bigger belly at certain age, I think it is fine if nothing serious.I am very careful of my body weight... Thanks.

[@Asuraskeye]

So does the non action of wu wei mean something like choosing not to do what the normal society does but the method aspect is the choosing to take the road of the internal arts as it is a road to enlightenment which has been paved for that attainment specifically?

[@blazink50]

Thank you always for the breakdown

[@HaiYangChannel]

You are very welcome.

[@Ninja9JKD]

"Xingyi is solid, hard, and strong like Ice. Tai Chi flexible, fluid, and powerful like water. Bagua is adaptive and changeable, like steam" I'm only 11 minutes in, many gems on which style to choose and on Dao Wuwei 💎 ☯️ "In Bagua people walk along a circle, In Taichi people draw a circle, in Xingyi people strike a point" 🧊☯️🐉 Three stages of water paint an accurate picture of the the three most famous internal martial arts from China. Consider that are bodies are mostly made of water. "Be like water my friend" Bruce Lee

[@xvrlskrcll6485]

Very helpfull information!

[@HaiYangChannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@HiddenPalm]

I love this guy.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thanks

[@ЮрийПоваров-с6ь]

*SUPER VIDEO !!!!!!*

[@jeroenkv5034]

Dear mister Yang, Your videos are very inspiring and helpful. What is your opinion in this regard on combination styles like Xingyi Baguazhang? The form I learned (Sha Guozheng) is a Baguazhang cycle walking form with Xingyi hands and structure. It is difficult to find out more about these combinations. How were these combinations developed and why? Regards, Jeroen

[@HaiYangChannel]

I will answer it in the coming Q&A. Thanks,

[@madhurasenevirathna.srilan6658]

Very informative!

[@HaiYangChannel]

Glad you liked it and thanks.

[@peilanhsu]

Question from a beginning Bagua student: what prevents someone from combining elements from all three styles?

[@HaiYangChannel]

Well, simply speaking, just focus on key elements of each style. Or needs a much longer writing, may cover it in the future.

[@Ador828]

Great knowlege

[@alexfpower]

Hi I love your videos they are very informative. I am curious though what style of qigongs and/or neigong you have learned over the years?(perhaps to complement the internal styles) There are so many I'm curious what interests you and what you think of qi work in general.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Hello, I learned many styles of qigong.

[@alexfpower]

@@HaiYangChannel Interesting, I am always fascinated by internal kung fu. If you don't mind me asking, is there a specific qigong practice for xing yi quan? I have always wanted to learn that internal art and it's full curriculum. Thanks!

[@HaiYangChannel]

Great, I will answer it in the future.

[@eatingbitter1756]

Do you have any insight into what would be the challenges of going from an Internal style (yang tai chi) to an traditional external are like Choy lee fut or even Karate? Please don't dismiss this with a "why would want to do that." kinda of statement.

[@ivannegri7724]

I will opine, An Internal style is obsessed with biomechanics and preserving or enhancing the integrity of tissues of the body such as: joints, tendons, and ligaments as well as concerns for enhancing the function of the respiratory and circulatory systems; where as a External style is by definition concerned more with Results, or the application of kinetic force to an enemy, and very little concern is placed on health as an independent, but complimentary concept to self defense. Sorry, I got a little verbose, Karate is hard on the knees and elbows, Yang style is not.

[@eatingbitter1756]

@@ivannegri7724 thank you for the input sounds all logical and true, for those are the experiences i have had with yang taiji, and in my hobby free time i have feel the twisting over frying of the nerve cluster inside of upper forearm, nearest to the elbow joint.

[@HaiYangChannel]

Not a problem, it all depends on individual's talent. thanks

[@KM2558-o1y]

Eating Bitter I have many years experience practicing and teaching karate + a period of full contact training inclusive of grappling. However, I am now 62 years of age and for the past few years have taken a keen interest in YiQuan and other internal arts which I believe are more sustainable as we age and include health benefits. With external styles we become witness to our obvious physical demise as we age and can no longer perform a number of techniques that are suited to young people.

[@eatingbitter1756]

@@KM2558-o1y any advice for some one going the other direction?

[@kobe51]

Very informative. Can you give your opinion on the Wing Chun system in general ? Do you think it is a martial art like the other internal arts you discuss? Do you think it is a close cousin style of Hsing yi?

[@HaiYangChannel]

I do not know the answer. I only know that in China, there are only three internal styles: Xing Yi, Ba Gua and Tai Chi. Thanks,,

[@ReasonableConversation]

How long should one focus on one style before starting another?

[@HaiYangChannel]

Well, it depends on one's learning aptitude. Thank,s

[@timothyrude359]

wish I could have you as my teacher I have no prospective teachers in my area can you recommend good baguazhang books to form a foundation to which I may grow? Your knowledge is so vast and enjoy your videos immensely. Thank You

[@HaiYangChannel]

Sure I can teach you in the future but I do not know any good baguazhang book in English since I rarely read martial art books in English... very hard for me .Thanks.

[@IThinkSoBrain]

I can help. Joseph Crandall translated many Chinese bagua texts into English. YMAA also published a book on Bagua by Liang Shouyu that included a great deal of bagua theory. I studied very briefly with Joe. He teaches Bagua and Xingyi in El Sobrante, California. I wish it could have been longer, but his skill level was quite good.

[@surjantowonorahardjo6299]

Thanks sifu...

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thanks.

[@IronMan-yg4qw]

so why dony you combine all 3 styles into one style?

[@el.don1975]

What style can. I practice alone? (Through video instructions) my guess tai chi

[@HaiYangChannel]

sure.

[@el.don1975]

@@HaiYangChannel what about Ba Gua?

[@vladgalayda97]

Great!

[@roberthoffman9232]

excellent lecture...reticence regarding unsolicited advice...check... western students study 3 arts master none

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thanks. With a correct method, anyone can practice.

[@MasterofPlay7]

can these styles actually fight? i mean most styles are wishy washy make believe, without sparing and combat training i don't think you can use it with just form practice

[@HaiYangChannel]

Any style is for self-defense purpose. To any traditional style, it needs to return to its original way of training including sparing and combat training if the objective is for competition or self-defense. Specific benefit and objective need to be supported by specific training methods. Thanks,

[@MasterofPlay7]

@sean ogara but if they are that good why don't they fight in organization such as UFC, they pay their fighters really well. Why risk your life being a bodyguard?

[@MasterofPlay7]

@sean ogara yeah the eagle claw guy would mostly freeze and get beat up in the ring, so his chance of surviving is pretty low on the street....

[@MasterofPlay7]

​@sean ogara plus why are you doing martial art? Cuz of money and proving a point you can fight like competitive sports. Otherwise if you do it for health you can just go to the gym weight train or dance studio to meet girls

[@MasterofPlay7]

​@sean ogara rules are there to protect people, that's why we have police out there patrolling to protect people. That's the reason why MMA and combat sports are better these days, cuz they are motivated by money and fighters are protected with victorious anti doping policy

[@ovidiudante]

So I have to choose...sad

[@HaiYangChannel]

Sure.

[@ovidiudante]

@@HaiYangChannel you seem like a very active and knowledgable teacher so I would like to ask you a question. Since all the 3 styles have their own strong points. Would it be fine, to start with learning the Xing yi striking and stance but not the stepping, follow up with Tai Chi and then only learn the stepping applications of Bagua?

[@nathanfoust7989]

[@HaiYangChannel]

Thanks.