Half in the Bag: Joker

[@bfollmann]

It's a shame I couldn't tell if the character was damaged. A forehead tattoo would have helped.

[@hysterical-queer]

Really needed stomach tattoo of his name also, how else do we know who he's supposed to be?

[@kobrien4121]

Hunka Hunka!!!🃏

[@JakeWerkmeister]

It's like poetry, it rhymes.

[@billyfitzgerald3442]

I was so outraged when I saw this. This was NOTHING like the Joker as depicted by Bob Kane in his original comic book appearance. Kane, of course, was a big Marilyn Manson fan and also a connoisseur of gangsta rap and the Joker combined his too loves. This movie even had the audacity to not show the famous Joker cat purr. I thought at the very least they would have shown that.

[@MichaelSmith-ij2ut]

It's cuz he's all messed up, ya know? He's all messed up.

[@chriscorben-green2640]

In a recent interview, Joaquin Phoenix said the only reason he did Joker was to prepare for playing Rich Evans in the up-coming bio-pic.

[@CatLives9]

Ticket sold

[@stevekjr9563]

The birthday boy scene is going to be legendary.

[@alyzluke801]

@@stevekjr9563 great, another cgi de-aging debacle.

[@gabbyprincip1575]

@@stevekjr9563 Can't wait for the breaking point scene where he losses his diabetes medicine

[@jong316]

You mean the Dick the Birthday Boy origin story?

[@colinthedogfromspaced9365]

As a Kingdom of the Crystal Skull fan, I liked when he got inside his fridge

[@curtismoore4347]

"You're a rent-a-clown?" "Part-time."

[@Urbrainongaming]

Rofl

[@LeoAGN]

When i was watching the movie, all i can think of was : "Well, now he would survive a nuclear blast"

[@ryuman757]

I 100% thought about that movie too, and I didn't even like it, lolol

[@The1uptriforce]

ill never understand the outrage of that scene to me it made sense in regards to the movie it said lead lined right on it lol

[@hazmongrel]

Finally, I have seen the movie and unlocked the ability to watch this video

[@metalbrainmextrememetalent6810]

Me too. Watched Joker last night. I avoided spoilers for a whole year.

[@hazmongrel]

@@metalbrainmextrememetalent6810 nice lol

[@alexandersmith5319]

Get a load of this guy

[@The3mbered0ne]

No you're supposed to watch this to knkw what you think about the movie 😆

[@pennyroyalpolly8282]

@@metalbrainmextrememetalent6810 me too

[@Galahad993]

I never expected to ever hear Mike say the word “Incel” in my entire life

[@fulldisclosureiamamonster2786]

@đöPpƏŁşÂįĶĪÅņØŇ ïwĪķ holy shit where's that from

[@CsStoker]

The most cancerous memes are reaching everything, dark times ahead

[@iscesp04]

Boomers are becoming sentient

[@labieredebuff8953]

@đöPpƏŁşÂįĶĪÅņØŇ ïwĪķ check out all appearances of mike on pre rec.

[@Terf1988]

@đöPpƏŁşÂįĶĪÅņØŇ ïwĪķ LOL

[@bradleybindle6428]

“Can you introduce me as Rich Evans?”

[@MegaMcCurtis]

"Can you introduce me as Dick the Birthday Boy?"

[@aaronjohnson8490]

“Do you wanna know how I got these stretch marks?”

[@mrman6035]

@@aaronjohnson8490" I'm Rich Evan's baby!"

[@Seph_vision]

Hahaha

[@Rovou7]

Lmfaooooo

[@stevekjr9563]

"Kill the rich!" Is this a coded message to specifically target Rich Evans?

[@sp4cehouse]

He's been monopolizing that Shaq meat for far too long

[@kylestyyle987]

Bachagaloop Jones Ah yes, Bernie Sanders and his campaign slogan “Kill the Rich”

[@mydyingparadiselost]

First the bouncy castle murder, then the crippling diabetes, and now kill the Rich... Yeah, Mike is jealous of the fame that Rich Evans has garnered on talk shows and wants to end his existence.

[@brucemcclelland1919]

Dick the Rich Boy

[@fromthedumpstertothegrave3689]

@@lukess.s I can't believe some people still don't know this. The tweet mike put out was very respectful and sincere. They just want to carry on making stuff and move on.

[@mccabber24]

Mike: "I really liked this movie. But I did have a few tiny problems. Nothing major though, Loved this movie! What are your thoughts on the movie, Jay?" Jay: "all I have are negative thoughts"

[@Vario69]

*laughs in joker*

[@MarvelBoi44]

Zazie Beetz was never really dhere∴

[@luckyspurs]

Werner Herzog's slowly taking over Jay's mind.

[@Gambit08]

To Jay’s credit he did say “more movies like this please”

[@daliilars3350]

I was surprised they actually didn't mind the mess of a movie

[@sean2734]

All this proves is that mike is a true gamer and jay is society

[@cotelo]

based and mikepilled

[@jamesbell1186]

SPOILER When Joker said “This is what happens when society steps on you!” I literally laughed out loud in the cinema

[@virginiasaintj]

@@jamesbell1186 As did I

[@mcsharps8247]

@@jamesbell1186 I CLAPPED WHEN HE SAID THE THING

[@pegatrisedmice]

@@jamesbell1186 lol made me so hyped, especially because he's said it during the climax

[@Shinigamimon434]

Rich Evans hears “Kill the Rich” and goes into hiding

[@Sefiros]

Dick the Rich

[@RedEarth20XDX]

No no no, what he does is called hibernation.

[@homuhomu345]

i thought he had already died???

[@FCHenchy]

I see him doing more of an "Oh finally", closing his eyes, and opening his arms wide.

[@Andy-ef2on]

Oh my gooooddddd

[@Aaron-ui9tj]

He literally asks his therapist how he was going to get his medicine once the funding was cut, and she just apologizes. I think maybe this deserves a second watch gentlemen.

[@chee1989]

he is literally off his meds because he couldn't get them anymore.. the rest of the film could have all played out in his head

[@lenonel3286]

@@chee1989 except he didn't cause we didn't get flashbacks of those scenes never happening

[@247rants3]

Juboi that’s what made this less interesting for me. Since the film establishes that it will make it CLEAR when he’s having a delusion (first appearance on Murray’s show, girlfriend flashbacks), it implies that everything else we’re being shown is reality

[@1997lordofdoom]

@@chee1989 That is highly unlikely, the movie made it clear every time he was imagining things. It doesn't fit the pattern of the movie, if it never went out of it's way to show that his was imagining things then sure, could be possible, but not now.

[@VideoMeltdown]

nah Vampire Assassin does

[@henrydouberly3950]

Jay: the shooting of 3 people couldn't start a revolution Franz Ferdinand: am I a joke to you

[@FreshGarbage0]

Or the actual real life "subway vigilante" shooting in 80s NYC that inspired huge social uproar that partially inspired this film! C'mon Jay!

[@itsRecreational]

Well he kind of missed that part when Thomas Wayne got in front of the camera and pretty much said anyone who hasn’t made something of themselves in life is a clown to him and people like him.

[@JerryMcB3rry]

Franz Ferdinand was also royalty in Austria-hungary, and Serbia and Austria-Hungary were at each other's throats before the shooting, so Serbia killing Franz just pushed it over the top. I agree with Jay here.

[@PhreakPhantom]

Or world war 1

[@janosmarothy5409]

The problem is that his point misses a lot of key details, and I say this as someone who doesn't think was a cinematic masterpiece or something. The cuts to social services, the brief tidbits about sanitation workers on strike, the pre-existing animus towards Thomas Wayne, who's obviously an amalgam of former mayor Ed Koch and Donald Trump, the run down architecture... like, these all form the setting itself and are all obviously meant to convey late 70s/80s New York. The city is a social powder keg in the movie, as it was in real life. It's not implausible at all that the vigilante murder of a repugnant social type would get a sympathetic reaction. For a real life scenario with some surprising parallels, look into the "dogman" murder in Rome in 1988.

[@leoveas9965]

Arthur literally shoots a gun in the middle on the night in his house and nobody does anything, I think it is very well established that this Gotham is a shithole bound to end up in chaos and anarchy lol

[@Amrylin1337]

A loud bang in New York would probably not prompt neighbors to call 911 either just as a matter of fact.

[@shrimpybebo2736]

Curtis Robison gunshot’s a little more than a loud bang, homie.

[@Amrylin1337]

@Dave Smith I'm not speaking to hollywood or an interpretation. A single Gunshot may or may not convince someone to be suspicious. That's called nuance and it has nothing to with living near a project, NYC, in a fiction or in reality.

[@theoldgods8229]

Parts of NYC were war zones in the 1980s where the cops could not keep up with the number of calls. Check out The Seven Five documentary, there were multiple years when murders topped 2000+

[@Poglavnit_Pferdefuhrer]

You didn't go back far enough Dave. Kitty Genovese is the literal turning point for the entire city just getting fed up with it. You could say they had an inverted riot, where pensioners and community organisers just started taking matters into their own hands and saying "well if the cops won't do anything about it..." (Which is where the stuff like Death Wish and New Jack City comes in I guess) You wanna see that TODAY, you gotta go places like Chicago (AKA Chiraq to local veterans) or Baltimore or Saint Louis. Also bears remembering that while most of Hollywood comes from the surrounding area, most scriptwriters and directors (especially during the 70s and 80s) came out of New York, particularly Queens, the Bronx, and Crown Heights

[@lexodius]

The lack of attention to the riots was deliberate, because it's not something Arthur is interested in. It's his perspective and you see it developed in his eyes

[@irisdogma8174]

It's actually typical DC. It never focuses intently on the social context, it's always a bit 2d. The issues are dealt with through the protagonists.

[@AnnaMarianne]

@@irisdogma8174 But this isn't really DC. It's more a fan film elseworld story, that wouldn't even need to be about Joker, or have the city named Gotham, or its richest family named Wayne. Not saying that you're wrong, just that I think the reason for it is other than just the movie being DC.

[@irisdogma8174]

@@AnnaMarianne Yeah, but this is exactly how the jokers lackies are usually handled - often just random crazed anarchists unhappy with the status quo. This movie still strikes me as being 'in a comic book world' for all it's adult messaging. Regardless, the riots etc are not the focus of the film, whether that's from DC influence or simply a story decision.

[@BathroomTile]

Yeah, at some point his clown ex-colleague asks him if he's going to the riots because he's got makeup on and he doesn't even know about it.

[@TheInflicted]

Well, that's fine, but then the script should have had Arthur have more interactions with people and things having to do with the social unrest. These things were within the control of the writer and editor, after all.

[@maxramm3119]

It wasn’t the killings that inspired the riots, it was Thomas Wayne’s response where he straight up blamed poor people that incited protests

[@rapzeh4]

Yeah, the guy was like a cartoon version of Trump making irresponsible comments about poor people. And then he had the chance to apologize but he became even more aggressive in front of the journalists. So yeah, it was a lot of tension between the rich and the poor, joker had no interest in that but his actions brought out the worst from the poor.

[@IndependentTitle]

Ironically I think the media played into what the movie was critiquing, he has no motive or political agenda, but the media hype him into this figurehead

[@PedroGomes-cx7ku]

@@rapzeh4 How did Thomas blame poor people? He called the people that were celebrating the murder of three persons clowns, that's it.

[@jonq8714]

@@rapzeh4 Trump is a cartoon version of Trump.

[@vulekv93]

@@PedroGomes-cx7ku Sometimes meaning gets lost in the context. It was inflammatory statement. There was tension between poor and rich, so much so that that was only thing that mattered. 3 rich persons were murdered, well it is obvious someone poor did it so calling killer a clown all of a sudden means all poor people are clowns. It makes no sense what so ever, but everything is so fucked up and people are completely irrational it this kind of times...

[@Ishmael77]

i wonder if jay still thinks a killing sparks a massive uprising is unrealistic

[@aceangel1732]

“Such a bizarre stretch to me that one person death sparks a riot’ 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@normietwiceremoved]

that's exactly why I'm back here. I'm team chad mike

[@justincooper1884]

The riots have nothing to do with the dead man. It's animals being animals, nothing more than that.

[@ThePvthudson]

@@justincooper1884 Thank you bot...

[@aceangel1732]

ozymandias ___ jay said that he doesn’t believe a death can start an uprising 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@TanisMercer]

When he was told that mental health services were being cut and his therapy would have to be terminated, he did ask his case worker who he would go to to get his meds from. He was never answered... and then there is a quick scene after wards of empty pill bottles and the few remaining pills spilled out on the table.

[@TanisMercer]

@j mula I am somewhat of an observant one. Thanks! :D

[@TanisMercer]

@@anthonywarren9885 Mike and Jay do great work. It was a small detail to miss and no one is perfect.

[@behamut92]

Also when Jay says that how is it possible that just because the Joker killed tree guys in the subway suddenly it becomes a movement. It wasn't because he killed them, it was because Thomas Wayne said that everyone that didn't have his life in order was a clown like him, causing the public to backlash.

[@TanisMercer]

@@16-bitmascot12 Yeah, I don't think that's what Jay was saying at all. He offered that up as an idea as to why he didn't have access to his medication while failing to realize it was because his access to his mental health councillor who facilitated his prescriptions was terminated. I don't think jay was trivializing the use and access to medication as such.

[@stageselectca]

i was going to write this exact same thing :)

[@Dave-Deadman]

I felt like the protests were kicked off by Tomas Wayne’s comments referring to the citizens of Gotham who arnt wealthy as “clowns”, the masks weren’t in homage to joker it was more throwing the comment back at Wayne.. I could be wrong.. The shooting on the train was just a random spark lit a fire that wasn’t intended

[@CyrusKazan]

Yeah, I felt it was his inflammatory comments regarding that event that was the major spark, not the event itself.

[@GoopieG]

Tomás Wayne

[@JACK-RABBIT-SLIMS]

Yea thats what I was thinking too

[@theteachers1]

I feel Waynes comments confirmed to the "clowns" that the rich really don't get it - whatever "it" maybe. I feel the movies intro set up the riots before any of the main characters even spoke. I think the first line was "is it me or is it getting crazier out there?" Setting this up in the first 5 minutes allows the movie to focus more on Arthur and his demise/rise.

[@WorldwideDoodz]

It all came down at the same time. The murders gave Thomas Wayne the reason to call the less privileged "Clowns" so eventually, with some people seeing Joker as a hero vigilante (which also gives a huge jump-start to a Batman story), it all explodes into Joker being an involuntary symbol for the poor exploited people of Gotham against the filthy rich Waynes. So the riots at the end were all over the place. Joker was taken as a dangerous revolutionary figure by an angry crowd and there lies the danger. For them in the film but also for us to know this is a bad way to fight the good fight.

[@rangeboy7210]

To emphasize class struggle, I feel they could have had Joker rescue some racehorses from the local track while his vertically challenged friend vomits quarters.

[@batmank234]

Even better, you could add little kid slaves shouting "WoOhOo!" as Arthur sets the animals free instead of them, and in the end you see how they got inspired by the Joker's actions (?).

[@magonus195]

Then, as he blows up 3 police cars with a single shot of his revolver, he yells to a dog, "Woo! I like this!"

[@winterhtech]

That would definitely have subverted expectations.

[@Oozywolf]

Lmfao fuck TLJ.

[@turomoy2470]

Haha vertically challenged

[@Dynamaximometer]

Can someone edit the movie so every time Arthur Fleck laughs it's Rich Evans' laugh? I would like to watch the perfect movie, please.

[@redherronrecords]

I legit want this WAY more than the Snyder cut.

[@JJourdenaisART]

has anybody done it yet???

[@carlossantillan6377]

Please tell me this exists

[@KoiNoYokan37]

I can't stand Rich's laugh, and I hate it when he takes part in the review. I really prefer just Mike and Jay.

[@BelchingBeaver69]

@@KoiNoYokan37 rich is the mvp, you’re crazy

[@GuyUWishUWere]

"I cried during your movie" "I don't believe you've ever cried in your life" This is the face of a man who knows how to have a good time!

[@robing4910]

We all need a link to that clip

[@whodatninja439]

i'm surprised Mike and Jay didnt mention how 10 years ago, Joaquin pretended to quit acting and become a rapper, all for a fake documentary. He's always been a performance artist

[@kreganf]

That is the face of a man who was destined to play the joker at some stage XD

[@smallzy84]

Who Dat Ninja for a shit movie. I don't care much for method actors, to me it just shows how weak their acting is that they have to use their real life to try to become more like their on screen character

[@MrDrBendy]

Does anyone know what this is from?

[@Silver_Warden]

Jay: "I find it hard to believe that shooting three guys could've sparked a conflict of this magnitude." WWI: "Allow me to introduce myself."

[@TopBurger239]

or any of the shit that has stirred up in the last 10 years or so lol

[@followertheleader]

Joker had a point when he said that had it been him, the city would not have cared. It's business as usual if the poor in Gotham die, but not the rich.

[@Buttington_Headerson]

They weren’t just “three guys”. They were rich Ivy League Wayne Tech boys. Of course the media would manufacture outrage over their deaths.

[@darklingcorner-yoisakinade7863]

Yeah a few douches on a train is definitely an equivelant to prince assassination on a parade ride in a country hes disliked.

[@Salty-Tanky-McTriggerdn]

Gavrilo Princip: Hold my beer...

[@terria8825]

It was Thomas Wayne's comments that sparked the outrage.

[@Swarm509]

I agree, and his comments on how he "knows best" and would fix things for these poor people just made it worse.

[@opmdevil]

Thomas wayne...is trump...

[@gustavusadolphus4344]

Except no he is not trump, not in the least. Trump reaches out to the blue collar working classes of middle america, and does so with down to earth, simplified speech. He is then hated by the coastal elites because of this reason. Completely different dichotomy. " Wayne is rich, Trump is rich, people don't like Wayne and people don't like trump so Wayne must represent trump" view is so simple and narrow minded

[@JonathanMutsinzi1998]

Gustavus Adolphus I felt like he was both trump/hillary ...I'm glad the trump impersonator dropped out of playing Wayne

[@Swarm509]

@@opmdevil I saw Thomas Wayne far more of a Ronald Reagan type then Trump. He is from high society and really doesn't understand the poor, but feels he know best how to help them.... while at the same time being annoyed they don't pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

[@michaelgordon3552]

Jay keeps referencing Taxi Driver, but never mentions King of Comedy for some reason. Joker was inspired by both, pretty equally. The casting of De Niro was no accident.

[@interdimensionalsteve8172]

And yet it didn't even come close to reaching either in terms of quality. It's an extremely unoriginal, predictable and boring story with a fantastic actor cast in the title role.

[@bryanpartington3260]

@@interdimensionalsteve8172 What crap you talk.

[@frogdeity]

Yeah. It's insane to me they didn't mention The King of Comedy once.

[@FlymanMS]

@@interdimensionalsteve8172 oh wow mr cinesnob wants super original script that he's going to shit on anyways? Ffs people all we get now is comic hero action movies or shitty origin stories, can you put your fucking cinebuff snobbery away, quit cosplaying Ebert and enjoy a decent non stupid movie that's in cinema? None of you even mentioned how good soundtracks is or the camerawork, all you say is "hur dur i saw taxi driver its a rip off -0.5/10".

[@interdimensionalsteve8172]

@FlymanMS Relax. Not sure why you're getting so worked up over a subjective thing like movie critique. The movie was boring/pointless in an environment where there is a metric ton of good films coming out every year from about a hundred different sources. It's honestly dizzying, then add TV shows, and it's ridiculous. I work a job (hotel night manager) where I get paid to effectively write (dialogue/story for a video game company) and watch movies. I'm actually quite the opposite from what's in your head - it takes a lot for me to say I don't like a movie, and as I've gotten older I've realized I'm waay easier to please while my scope has broadened. I don't care that Joker is similar to taxi driver - that's meaningless - it was just boring and disjointed. Nothing really happened, and then the end was ridiculous. I didn't like The Batman either, you wanna freak out about that? That one was actually really disappointing because I was looking forward to it. Batman (and Punisher) is my favorite comic from back in the day.

[@or.o.s.t8190]

I really liked the scene when the Joker is lying in a sea of knives and guns and laughing maniacally(at 26:37). Really goes to show how Damaged he really is

[@emersonthomas7201]

I see what you did there ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@banzaiboy1597]

I didn't understand that scene. Maybe if he had "Damaged" tattooed on his forehead I would have got it.

[@madsmadsoleh8642]

no, just a flex-tape tattoo

[@scerpalman]

@@banzaiboy1597 don't forget the classic Joker grill, can't have Joker without capped teeth

[@sumez4369]

@@banzaiboy1597 I'm slow, so just to clarify... that scene wasn't actually in the movie, was it?

[@chauschi]

They totally forgot how Thomas Wayne called poor people “clowns”. That’s what got people upset.

[@mandu6665]

This. And he completely whitewashed those three thugs Arthur killed on the subway.

[@PedroGomes-cx7ku]

Thomas called people who were celebrating murders clowns. He didn't call poor people clowns.

[@Gunplabro]

He called the people celebrating the murder of his employees clowns and the media twisted his words.

[@chauschi]

Questbro yep. Wayne’s comments were perceived poorly by a populace on that was already on the edge of an abyss and that little push sent them over.

[@theforgottenones1542]

Yeah, I’m assuming Jay didn’t want to ride the “Joker is a Masterpiece” train alongside everyone else and went in wanting to dislike it. He brings up several reasons as to why he didn’t like the movie, but most didn’t even make sense

[@madbum1281]

Trash strike => Shooting => Thomas Wayne calling the poor clowns on tv => newspaper/media speculation for the murder's motive => protests. I thought this was a pretty reasonable arc for what happened, especially as we see the media's influence in similar ways in current culture. What do you guys think?

[@Hirnlego999]

Well, he understood that many are mean as hell, he must have understood his mother's grievances about her life... to me he seems to want things to be good and he himself does not express any sort of violence until it's done to him quite many times. This is part of why he snaps, and that he is taken of the medicines he so much needs, so in some essence the upper class created him just like the upper class created the French revolution. He also notices the deep class divide, and that De Niro's character is really just there for the laughs.. The incels do not just go to do that to be awful, it's a sort of revenge things for them, they do justify it. Joker has part of this mentality as he has these fantasies about the young girl living in the same apartment complex.. at one point he imagines himself just going to her like a king to have sex and these fantasies partly make him think that he just has the right to enter her apartment..

[@georgezee5173]

That'll work on today's social media driven society, but not in this late 70's Gotham. Things escalated dramatically for no aparent reason.

[@KevinWidesouls]

George Zee Mass protests and riots have been a thing forever though. Like the LA riots stemmed from a huge undercurrent of systemic issues plus a single, well-known event (beating of Rodney King). In Joker, there was a huge undercurrent of systemic issues, and then several single, well-known events. Makes sense to me

[@Destroyer-vr1pz]

I agree with Jay that it wasn't as clever or well thought or presented as it could've been, but sort of with Mike on it slowly escalating to some extent with Thomas Wayne becoming the enemy of the people. It could've probably used more hints at police brutality and civil unrest before that, with or without Fleck understanding what was going on.

[@vingram100]

The media has always reflected society, that's why people hate it. It's literally funded by the general public since ads wouldn't sell if nobody watched or read what "the media" publishes.

[@LuxAeterna22878]

15:08 - Yes, people CAN lose touch with reality that quickly if they go off their meds. I like most aspects of this review, but Jay genuinely doesn't how realistic that is. If you're taking an anti-psychotic you do NOT want to go off it cold turkey.

[@crappymcdick]

I think his point is more that the film doesn't deal in nuances and subtitles.

[@RSClassicAngel]

@@crappymcdick subtitles can be turned on on the bluray or dvd

[@Bran_Flakesx7]

@@crappymcdick You should not need it. As soon as he asks about how he's gonna get his med, you should anticipate big changes. idk it's common sense. It's like chekov's gun

[@bfeezey]

Hell's f'in bells, Dylan.

[@TheTGOAC]

@@Bran_Flakesx7 Chekov's Prescription

[@samspade983]

Jay: “his character is crazy and so there’s nowhere for him to go from there” Mike “he turns into the joker” That exchange sums up the whole review.

[@MaleTears]

that sums up the movie

[@archivehans]

Jay was stumbling all over this bag

[@bunceman4613]

I would say that his arch is becoming comfortable with being crazy. At the start he wants to hide it and become an innocent entertainer but then realises his insanity is what would put him in the spotlight.

[@jonnyshanon2103]

@@archivehans yeah, he's probably got twenty other empty bottles of beer under that table.

[@davidgomez7882]

@@bunceman4613 Yeah, he even says it at one point. "No more masks, this is the real me" something like that

[@TheHarmmm]

"It's always nice when he shows up and actually tries" - Jay on DeNiro' last 20 years of acting

[@alexsilva28]

He ain't wrong tho

[@Beepbopboh]

TRUMP 2020

[@cattleprodding]

I wonder if they picked him because this movie had a Taxi Driver type feel. Nah, too on the nose.

[@SigmaoctanusIV]

@@cattleprodding Actually king of Comedy check it out. Way more on the nose than you think.

[@DrnMontemayor]

@@SigmaoctanusIV It was a shameless mix of both. And he was clearly picked because of it.

[@openingband]

Jay Today: "All I have are negative thoughts."

[@pr1ncessbutters]

people who say the therapy scene was unrealistic because a therapist would never say that have never been to therapy. so many therapists really just do not give a shit, especially in the kind of conditions she was in.

[@TheSastoke]

Im sorry that was your experience with a therapist, but a lot people who think that the scene is not realistic could've simply have had different experiences than yours. Other than that, you are absolutely right, I'm finishing Psychology school and you can see early on the ones who will turn out to actually care about their clients.

[@Mr061099]

Jay had some valid points, but a lot of his gripes WERE adressed in the film. I kinda feel like he went to see the movie with "this dude directed the hangover movies lmao" on the back on his mind the entire time and missed key plot points.

[@tomedwards2586]

@Mr061099 I think the problem with Jay’s feelings toward this movie is that it requires you to think about what is real and what isn’t, even after the movie is over. Unfortunately, I think jay closed his mind after the movie finished and just took the movie at face value.

[@aristideregnier4883]

@@tomedwards2586 These dudes are total cliches - the slight god complex movie reviewer that secretly thinks they're tastemakers of the gods. Also, they probably gave such shitty reviews because they rushed this out for content.

[@Caboose2711]

@@aristideregnier4883 These guys are the original cliches KZbin-wise. Their schtick has always been watching a movie once and doing a casual review together. I think MIke did a pretty good job of praising what it did well.

[@dm6182696]

@@aristideregnier4883 "These dudes are total cliches - the slight god complex movie reviewer that secretly thinks they're tastemakers of the gods. Also, they probably gave such shitty reviews because they rushed this out for content." You don't understand RedLetterMedia at all do you? RLM were the originators of film criticism on KZbin. Ten years ago they practically invented the video essay style of film critique, that EVERYONE ELSE uses now. Also your gripe about "shitty reviews". Did you watch the video? Mike enjoyed this movie quite a bit. He defended this movie through the entire length of the video. I suggest you at least make an attempt to understand who you're bitching about before you type a comment like this. Because I can tell you shut the video off when Jay got critical and have no idea who the hell Mike and Jay are and their history on KZbin. Because if you did, you would never say anything so enormously incorrect.

[@Nixonitus]

@@dm6182696 Being the inventor of something does not mean you cannot be wrong. To blindly defend somebody because you believe they created something first, frankly, is plain and simply silly. they made numerous nonsensical critiques, outright mischaracterizations, as well as a handful of simply missing major plot points. frankly, it was rather poorly done. It felt rushed, and done after only a single viewing. A viewing that I can't help but feel they didn't pay much attention in, either. I am of the opinion if you were going to do a movie critique you should at least try to watch the film more than once. Otherwise, as they seem to have done, you are likely to miss key details and factors as well as of miss major points throughout the movie

[@Im_trash_bruh]

" I forgot to PUNCH OUT"

[@7superdaimajin]

I remember that from BREAKING AWAY.

[@chimpwimp9407]

That and the burglar joke was funny.

[@retbookers]

"Oh no, we lost Marty?" The curse has begun.

[@vanomxxx]

Oh no..

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

They better not have. Who will make good movies then.

[@alexsilva28]

Oh fuck. I hope this doesn't ends up in r/agedlikemilk

[@ramadansteve6573]

At least if he does go (God and Satan pls no), he went out on a high note with producing Joker and making The Irishman (which, of course, isn't out yet but looks great).

[@Jojo-uc9or]

If the reports mention a small alcoholic who laughs like a hyena, we'll know the guy.

[@garydougherty8307]

Given the current events in America, I feel like Jay should retract his criticism that a huge protest couldn't form within a day let alone a couple of days.

[@robinbarker5407]

Watched "Joker" for the first time last night and thought the exact same thing when watching it and then this review.

[@spooderlover3512]

At least the movie needed 2 guys killed to kick it off, we had one guy and no clown comment to start a riot

[@garydougherty8307]

@@spooderlover3512 I mean, let's not forget the myriad of racial killings that preceded this. Like I say, these riots really aren't dissimilar to how Joker played out, they weren't in a bubble or a vacuum, both of these are boiling pots just with different sparks.

[@jaketheberge1970]

Covid19 may have made things move faster. People are stuck at home, out of work, and pissed. George Floyd's death was a match tossed into a lake of oil. So we got a lot of protests faster than usual. Tragedy upon tragedy.

[@Warchief1521]

@@garydougherty8307 you know only 1 black person was killed by police unarmed in 2019 who wasnt a criminal?

[@Cairotheclown]

“Now THIS is the power of math” -Joker, 2019

[@vrapbrap]

Something something "society" -gamer joker 2019

[@nono9543]

"SCIENCE! FUCK YEAH!"

[@Crimelord2k10]

"Now THIS is podracing!" - Joker, 2019

[@kojirosasaki8362]

1:54 "KHAAAAAN! KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!"

[@IanRoach17]

"I like clowns"

[@Dapstart]

"I was unexpectedly surprised" Mike's a goddamn lyrical genius

[@gilly_5123]

Thanks for this lol i am happy now

[@labieredebuff8953]

What do you mean?

[@raymondanguiano8345]

Dapstart a surprise is unexpected

[@piemanmoo]

@@labieredebuff8953 all surprises are unexpected by definition

[@labieredebuff8953]

@@piemanmoo thanks, i better stop being illiterate pleb.

[@felixcharles9773]

“I’m the Joker babyyy” - Rich Evans

[@timmason4327]

his diabeetus is causing slurring

[@broucus]

"I told you when we hooked up babyyyy....."

[@notarealperson1481]

Drew Carry's Joker is honestly one of the best interpretions on Heath Ledger's interpretion of the Joker

[@_V.Va_]

Why isn't your name HELIX Charles?

[@ghostofkrows]

Wonder how ICP feels about Hollywood Stealing their gig.

[@frankreasoning7993]

SPOILERS There's hints that his mother wasn't originally crazy, like having her portrait that "T.W." signed for her. Wayne could easily have buried her in fake paperwork to say Arthur wasn't actually his child.

[@eveandaedrul]

When Arthur reads the letter she wrote for Wayne and learns that Wayne's his father, the mother says she "signed some papers". So when he sees the adoption form and newspaper clippings of him and his mother getting abused in her file, he understands what she meant by "some papers" and gets upset. I thought it was obvious, how could Jay miss all these? It feels like he didn't even watch the movie and just skipped around.

[@analmancumeth7404]

old comment but when they were scanning over her files you see it says "lobot" on the right side, showing shes had a lobotomy and it's on record so

[@JSK1121]

Analman Cumeth or, Lobot from Cloud City is the real father. It was unclear, though.

[@tomatoesofdoom]

When I think that somehow this was a way to imply that Batman and the Joker are actually brothers in some ethereal way- I just can't handle it. I mean we're at fan faction levels of obsession for these existing properties. I know Heath Ledgers performance was good and the Dark Knight made an implication they're two sides of the same coin... but... come the fuck on people...

[@Darduel]

I thought it was implied that his mother abused him and she was indeed crazy.. this is why he had this mental issue from the start, she was abusing him and instead of crying he laughed, this is why she says "he was always so happy" or something like that.. I don`t remember exactly at what part they say it but it seemed pretty obvious for me that she was abusive of him

[@johnoconnell8393]

"SPOOKY CLOWN SCARE MEEEEEEE!" is so funny to me i can't really explain it

[@lividsphincter4098]

you laugh just to stop from shitting your pants in terror

[@Andrew-qu7lq]

"Now that the movie is out, those people look like complete buffoons." Missed opportunity to say "they look like clowns."

[@Savashri]

Probably trying not to spark an uprising =T

[@deader6]

Hacks

[@rhetiq9989]

Only Mike would have such daring audacity to pull that off

[@turtleanton6539]

👍

[@KevlarCaviar]

They don’t want their headquarters to be mobbed by poor people in clown masks.

[@robb209]

He asks where will he get his meds with the funding cuts, they show him taking the last of his meds with empty pill bottles on the counter, he tells his ex co workers he stopped taking his meds and feels great.

[@faurier]

Jay slept through the movie, he probably went in having no intention of liking it, literally dismisses everything Mike says lol.

[@MRG978]

After the psychiatrist tells him that he won't be able to see her anymore, they show him dumping out his pill bottle with only 2 pills left which likely means he never refilled his prescription

[@collinjames9182]

Jay: This movie didn't do (insert element here) right Mike: Wrong

[@TopBurger239]

@@ilikerice5208 wrong

[@ahhhhmazing1]

Jay was so annoyingly incorrect about so many things on this review. I want my money back Jay!!!

[@MrRubydoobs]

@@TopBurger239 Wrong

[@MrRubydoobs]

@@ilikerice5208 You are right

[@casualhamburger9607]

@@MrRubydoobs lol nope

[@peterquill9543]

They show him taking his medication throughout the movie, then there's a scene where he pours the rest of the contents of the pill bottle on the counter and there are only a couple left. It's shown that he's slowly coming off his meds which matches his worsened behavior

[@docmarten8269]

Jay is just an out of touch Boomer anyways lol

[@redmanfreeman3391]

there should have been withdrawl! flashes of light and headaches and deterioration

[@gregp103]

@R A told or literally told? Is there a difference? What does "literally" mean?

[@lookbovine]

14:25 Yeah...so?

[@Tatti12321]

Felt like Mike was trying to give Jay a thousand olive branches this whole episode.

[@Petey0707]

Jay just sounds like a pretentious dweeb the whole time. Good gawd.

[@coreymcewen6793]

This is Jays Jered Leto's Joker

[@zenith2930]

@@TheArsenalgunner28 to me know this sounds like im making a anthill to be a mountain but the movie was big because it touched something that i think most people didn't know they wanted to be scratched the points made in the film or eluded to are pervasive in the sub conscious of people but not the conscious. the darkness in the film is to me not really dark so much as potent and thought provoking. like yes i think endgame had dark themes but i would say that is decidedly different than this movie. to me the movie was potent mentally.

[@lucasnadamas9317]

@@TheArsenalgunner28 and he also missed like 60% of the movie it seems

[@TheRitva26]

@@GlennDavey that's why they completely agree in like 99% of half in the bag episodes?

[@Drelam]

I think Jay phased out a few times during the movie thinking about how much he hates the director causing him to miss key dialogue and scenes.

[@bazookajoe9864]

he phased out because it wasn't a terrible horror film from the 80s

[@WonderWaageRadio]

@@bazookajoe9864 true. It was just terrible

[@billhader6766]

I mean he isn’t wrong. The movie is a checklist of “now this happens oh and did we mention his dog was hit by a car and oh yeah they ran out of his favourite brand of toothpaste at Walmart so he is upset and oh yeah his house burns down oh yeah and then and then”

[@92brunod]

nope, you just think this movie is deeper than it is. Most his points are absolutely true

[@WonderWaageRadio]

@@92brunod So true. The perfect review of the movies is that one quote "If you've never swam in the ocean, then of course a pool will seem deep"

[@lukebryde594]

I don't think I've seen Mike and Jay disagree this much on a film.

[@mcdolan1526]

They have before, but i cant remember for the life of me what movie it was.

[@JimmyGreen1996]

In the Jurassic World review they were completely at odds.

[@TheDakattack3000]

Their Re:views of the Blair Witch and Escape from New York

[@ThisFoo310]

If anything, I like when they don't completely agree on a movie. It makes the film they're reviewing that much more interesting if it can get this kind of reaction.

[@wingnoit]

@@TheDakattack3000 Read that as Blair Witch: Escape from New York and now I want to see that film.

[@cedwards3146]

Jay totally forgets about the garbage strike and how tense the city is.

[@Swarm509]

And this is Gotham. If that city is known for anything it is riots and following whatever criminal is in power at the time.... and they almost always create a riot.

[@MrJjjakey]

Or that the mob dresses as clowns not because of Arthur's murders but because Thomas Wayne said in an interview that those who hated the rich were clowns.

[@rafalsadowski]

or that the cops shoot a guy on a train

[@BullofCrete]

Well the movie kinda forgets it too. There really isn't much focus given to the anti-rich sentiment or the tension the city's feeling. All we have is basically the radio and TV broadcasts; nothing visual or otherwise to show us the city is a powder keg waiting to blow.

[@rafalsadowski]

@@BullofCrete The kids beating a clown is not visual? Why do you need more? Do you want scene of super rats biting people's legs or precious screen time of shit happening to Joker, because he is the focus of the movie. I mean isn't it ironic and joke in the story that the guy that's starts it all has completely different motivation than the mob, they want cleaner streets he wants cleaner people. If their goals were the same, the filmakers would probably do more scenes featuring rants about garbage.

[@juantobare]

It wasn't just the shootig, it was Wayne's reaction to it and him saying that "all those who haven't done something with their lives are clowns"

[@MrSpoodersaurus]

Can’t wait for the Joker 2 Review 😏

[@ryankramer2703]

Mike: “We notice things like that, we’re film experts” Me:”I didn’t notice it, but my brain did”

[@narcspector]

Thomas Wayne called the poor "Clowns", Jay. That's your build up...that's why they rioted after the subway killing

[@breedlejuice8691]

year of the snitch And the symbol of the rich in culture, Murray, made fun of a mentally ill man on tv. He’s a symbol of marginalization amidst a rough social climate. I don’t think it was as ‘fumbling’ as Jay found it to be

[@jello4479]

Gotham is obviously a powder keg just waiting for a spark to ignite it. They allude to this fact several times. They don’t need to justify it beyond that.

[@CoolSmek]

I was tearing me hair out when they were talking about that! I'm like YO, JAY, The guy running for mayor just called EVERYONE who lives in poverty in Gotham CLOWNS on national TV. That's what started the riots JAY. That's why they dressed up like clowns, And yes Arthur's actions eventually led up to that happening it wasn't a direct cause and effect.

[@LukeVHellsing]

Well that and at the very beginning of the movie when he's putting on makeup the radio is talking about how trash is piling up because of like 18 days of striking. The clown boss talks about how everyone is poor and out of jobs. And then major rat infestation happens because of the trash. The radio part is kinda easy to miss ( I watched with subtitles). So the movie certainly slowly builds up to the rioting in steps.

[@nvrules27]

Haven’t seen it, but that just sounds like very heavy handed political commentary to me

[@TheHangedMan]

Jay: "It takes soooo long to get to that transformation" Also Jay: "I wish they would have spent the time to build up to it though" I seriously don't know wtf Jay is talking about here

[@Synnamon27]

He’s saying the movie meandered

[@Demilich23]

he decided he didn't like it before he watched it. jay is the kind of guy who let's other people make up his mind

[@ashkebora7262]

@@Demilich23 Nah, that's not Jay's style of thinking. I think he just expected it to stay at the same pace or a similar pace to the opening and world development. (and maybe set himself up with a few expectations that didn't pan out) Personally, I'm glad they picked up the pace once things started deteriorating. It actually helped Arthur's craziness stand out. He was ironically becoming more sane after giving up on life while the world was snapping around him. Beautiful. Saying people let others make up someone else's mind comes off as extremely dismissive, kind of like how so many told people that didn't like TLJ "You're just upset because your fan theory didn't pan out."

[@Demilich23]

​@@ashkebora7262 very good point, I didn't see things that way. I really like your take on the second half of the movie btw.

[@night1952]

Because the movie spends a loooooot of time with one side of the character and suddenly near the end he completely snaps. And it's not really built up, more like telegraphed but it didn't feel earned.

[@rhinocore]

Oh, Jay, you sweet boy. Thinking one incident won't start a massive uprising.

[@mrscruffles801]

We have incidents that start massive uprisings every month it feels like. Society is failing fast.

[@Dom213]

@@mrscruffles801 Lol what uprisings are occurring in West that point towards society failing? What has happened in the last 30 years that is on the level of anything from 1914-1945? Closest thing is the Recession.

[@koalasquare2145]

the reason why everyone is dressed up as clowns is because Wayne insulted the lower class, calling them all clowns

[@Petey0707]

@Redresseny Nah, he did, but he let his hatred and dispassion fuel his bullshit opinion. Jay is my boy but he needs to go fuck a fuck.

[@jebbryant6522]

It makes perfect sense remember that time trump called the the lower class pigs so thousands of violent protesters marched through the streets while dressed as pigs

[@themediumcheese]

@@jebbryant6522 when did this happen

[@jebbryant6522]

Cam Medina the concept of sarcasm ^ ^ ^ Your head

[@themediumcheese]

@@jebbryant6522 that's not sarcasm you buffoon

[@Fredlyy]

The news: "oh boy I really hope someone doesn't shoot up this movie, that would get us clicks for MONTHS! This would be such a good movie to shoot up!"

[@wienerstein2817]

Man I'm so pissed that people haven't fuckin picked up on that. Its dumb college aged millenials and BOOMERS that can't understand that the media doesn't give a fuck about the truth and is there FOR CLICKS.

[@ectofriend]

Yeah I saw that comic too.

[@Fredlyy]

@@ectofriend yee it's a good comic

[@ectofriend]

@@Fredlyy Glad you think so.

[@spacejunk2186]

Now they are complaining about the movie goers being too white lmao

[@milliondotz]

I’m more with mike on this one. I thought this movie did a great job of showing a mans decent into pure chaos and madness. I liked how not everything is just bright neon lights, but rather subtle. All it takes is one bad day, is one of my favorite lines, and I think this movie does a great job at interpreting it.

[@williamchristie2921]

@@AnHeC "I thought..."

[@dasboom7133]

I like when mike took me out for ice cream and a movie. I don’t know why he doesn’t answer my texts.

[@cocaineanddunhills4801]

Descent

[@InstigationFixation]

Cocaine and Dunhills dissent*

[@muricabarneydeelan7372]

For this Joker I don't think it was nessecarily 'one bad day' but instead all he had were bad days.

[@zacharyneely]

The real question here is… Will RLM review the flop that is Joker 2??

[@TheWeeklyCorn]

The episode in which Mike has finally had it with Jay

[@WEAREALLJUSTMEAT]

Laughing and/or crying uncontrollably is a legitimate medical condition

[@Slackdragon]

It's called PBA PseudoBulbar Affect. Danny Glover was a spokesperson for the organization a couple years back. Generally caused by physical neurological damage to the brain.

[@lewismartin4306]

I don't think the joker actually has this condition though. He says to his mum that's just how he is, and to the cops he who ask if the card is for real or part of his act, and he says It's up to you. And when the joker is laughing its coz he is a psycho and does find doing horrible stuff funny.

[@TerribleUsernameAmirite]

Lewis Martin he stops taking his medication, and enters what's pretty much a permanent state of insanity. His complete acceptance of his mental illness is what makes him think that he's cured

[@lewismartin4306]

@@TerribleUsernameAmirite Sure, for me I think the movie leaves it open to interpretation. But when I see the regular joker laughing it's not because of a 'tic' like tourettes, but because he is a psycho who genuinely finds doing evil stuff funny.

[@TerribleUsernameAmirite]

Lewis Martin yeah, Dark Knight Joker is a lot different. In this movie though, I find it interesting that he only laughs controllably when he's forced to act "normal" under pressure

[@tj5914]

I love RLM but i feel like Jay missed a critical point here. It's not the shooting of the three Wayne employee's that triggers the riots or people wearing the masks. It's the TV interview with Thomas Wayne which follows shortly afterwards that triggers them when he refers to the unemployed, the under-achievers, those who 'haven't made something of themselves' as 'clowns'. People may consider this remark in itself a bit of stretch to incite such riots, but when faced with rife unemployment and a regressive, declining society, it seems perfectly plausible to me that this could be the spark to light such fires. I thought the film was brilliant.

[@croisaor2308]

Also the strikes and growing rat problem mentioned in the opening instantly hint this is a society on the brink.

[@01What10]

And that's just it, its hinting at these aspects of societal decay. Jay seems to want it all spelled out for him. I thought they did a great job, it's a movie that demands your full attention and rewards it. Agreed, a brilliant film.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

I feel like the whole thing was far fetched and laughable. It was basically "poor people are clowns" basically was rather. unsubtle writing as it can get.

[@01What10]

@@johnnyskinwalker4095 From the hints dropped in the movie it was more than that, Gotham had a bunch of problems that were being ignored by the rich in the city, to the detriment of the poor and working class. The Wayne interview and the shootings just emboldened people to act. Better writing than these by the numbers Marvel movies we get shoved down our throats every year.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

@@01What10 from what I figured watching the movie, they based it on 70s NYC. Which yes was a shit hole. But the thing with shitholes it's that it's hard on the poor cause they can't and don't know how to do to get out of the mess. revolting is the furthest thing from their minds. it takes a lot for people to revolt. Esp. back then. Not a word for a politician nor someone getting shot in the subway.

[@farmerbrown9708]

This is the first review where I don't think Jay actually watched the movie.

[@joeferris5086]

I am unreasonably annoyed with him in this review

[@wwxxww6289]

Yet the movie is garbage and the director is a crybaby

[@t-rajedits4417]

I agree with Jay, most of it was a checklist. Phoenix acting hides all the messy writing

[@obiwankenobi4713]

“Someone didn’t like my favorite and the best film that’s ever been made in the history of ever?? THEY COULDNT HAVE *POSSIBLY* ACTUALLY WATCHED THE MOVIE REEEEEEE” Get over it, fanboy

[@PorcuPineAppleSauce]

@@obiwankenobi4713 yeah sure just ignore how he made criticisms that can easily be contradicted by scenes in the movie

[@davidpowers746]

I feel like Jay wasn't really paying attention when he watched this movie.

[@Soridan]

That tends to happen a lot in RLM reviews. Not that that invalidates their input on the stuff they actually noticed through the haze of alcoholism.

[@horsemann7354]

Disappointing since his usually the more insightful of when it comes to Half in the Bag.

[@AxL456]

He entered the movie with the bias of not liking the director and his previous movies, from the get go he was prepared for not liking the movie

[@RamenxXxNoodles]

Actually a little frustrating to watch lol.

[@blodus4521]

Yeah, he didn't seem to catch the Thomas Wayne campaign/calling people clowns thing that incited the protests

[@Drilling4mana]

No Mike, the slogan is "EAT the rich" But don't get confused and eat Rich accidentally, that would be tragic.

[@DanceLikeANitwit]

tragically tasty

[@SteelBallRun1890]

I don't know, maybe if they eat Rich they can gain his powers (or curses?).

[@M17-s7b]

Rohan Kishibe and 『Heaven's Door』 Type 2 diabeetus, down the hatch.

[@booates]

theres grass fed, corn fed, and shaq fed

[@RUDY-COLEMAN]

Rich would feed India for a week

[@Guanthwei]

"I don't believe you've ever cried in your life" Why wasn't this a line in the movie?!

[@maxmustermann9058]

Because it would have made the kids watching Brother Bear really sad

[@lukea.3729]

Max Mustermann Bruh was that supposed to be a joke? Lmao this comment section is honestly bad Edit: Or at least the shitty jokes in this section is bad.

[@carvedouttastone]

Anyone got a link for that interview - I wanna see her comeback to that....would have been better delivered if he hadn't followed it up with all the nodding and just deadpanned stared at her. Nodding made him look self conscious for saying it.

[@darknevermore3]

@@carvedouttastone If you find it, link it!

[@CorneliusBogfrollupFitzgerald]

Did anyone else notice every time he had a laughing episode, it was usually followed by a hallucination? Which begs the question, did the people in the train really attack him?

[@MrJonezy541]

Oh God I never realised this.

[@bluegum6438]

That's a good thought but I think it damages the message of the film if that was the intention, so it was probably real

[@loganobrien6731]

He didn't have a hallucination after his laughing attack in the first scene with his therapist

[@xxvimilia]

@@loganobrien6731 some people think the whole movie was a hallucination

[@uknownada]

@@bluegum6438 I think if it was the intention, the vagueness of the whole thing really helps the film. Cuz like, what this really tells us is that he does hallucinate a lot after a laughing fit. The hallucinations could be completely fake, or maybe a little real, or completely real. Even he doesn't know, and neither could we. "Did the people in the train really attack him?" becomes a question with no clear answer. That's a big point in the movie's favor.

[@sirhenrymf]

Mike and Jay uttering the word "incels" is such a strange thing to hear.

[@pebcak]

That's just how they refer to Rich now.

[@sebastiangarcia6103]

Why is that so odd (Im from other country)

[@gabbyprincip1575]

@@pebcak Rich has gotten laid tho

[@Drilling4mana]

@@Scatmanseth or if they had to define "boofing" in Congress OH WAIT

[@axxa5000]

I know right? The way information spreads now is kind of surreal.

[@joshuagrahamcrackers]

Thomas Wayne: "These poor are clowns!"

[@luiginastro8831]

Ishtar: "These men are pawns!"

[@ZaynoonSunaa]

The movie is solid and fantastically made , todd Phillips did an amazing job here .. I am with Mike on this one

[@inevitableveganfuture3915]

I really felt "They don't make movies like this anymore", or at least not ones that crush at the box office. Oscar nominations for performance and cinematography would not be undeserved.

[@ben_burnes]

Finally watched this recently. I wanted to mention how the soundtrack, especially the main theme, evolves and gets more complex as the movie progresses. It starts as a single droning note, then slowly adds more, one note at a time, as things continue further along. Was really interesting and well done.

[@dannysamman3384]

great observation mate. I loved the music

[@cuckertarlson5310]

One of the songs was one that they play at sporting events. It made no sense.

[@nostalgia_junkie]

very strange seeing you here, thanks for teaching me famitracker lol

[@mrplow2843]

@@cuckertarlson5310 I'm the Joker, baby

[@cuckertarlson5310]

@@mrplow2843 Are you a pedophile? Who sticks their fingers into little boy's mouth?

[@OregonCM]

When are we getting the grimy, Taxi Driver-style origin story of Rich Evans?

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

Will it feature a scene where he takes his date to see Exploding Varmints?

[@84jesterx]

I'd buy that for a dollar

[@ZUIKMedia]

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine he'll take her to the Tums festival.

[@rutchjohnson]

This please!

[@jarmarmarn4323]

Joaquin Phoenix is Space Cop

[@AnnaMarianne]

The shallowness of the political side of things bothered me until I realized it's because Arthur himself doesn't understand politics. He only understand interpersonal relations and interaction, that's what his mind is on.

[@WayoftheFerret]

The scene where he walks /through/ the protesters to go inside the theater to find Wayne was when that clicked for me.

[@SaintsBro217]

As all people should. Politics is cancerous.

[@barbarusbloodshed6347]

That's one of the best things about the movie! They perfectly portrayed the Joker ! The Joker is so dangerous in the comics because a) he has his own agenda and no one except him knows what it is, he's therefore unpredictable b) he is charismatic and has power over people, some follow him fanatically c) he doesn't care about those who follow him and is willing to kill them if it serves his needs d) he doesn't have any scruples, he always fights "dirty" e) he "goes with the flow", rides the wave, rolls with the punches etc. = he uses any opportunity as it presents itself ALL of this was in the movie, that's why my jaw dropped when I saw it. This portrayal of Joker was perfect. Heath Ledger's Joker was almost perfect. They didn't get that last point right. The Dark Knight Joker wasn't "flexible" enough. He had too much planned. This new Joker's perfect. He's a force of nature.

[@DarkAngelEU]

@@barbarusbloodshed6347 I found that odd, too. Nolan's Joker felt alot more like Riddler, but they chose Joker bc Riddler is probably not as popular.

[@DistractedGlobeGuy]

@@barbarusbloodshed6347 ... except that time he beat the shit out of Redskull--not for being a fascist, but for being foreign.

[@vars280287]

Jay seemed determined to hate it even when Mike was giving good counter arguments.

[@thevincentgonzalesplan]

Jay is criticizing a DC movie because the "regular" people living within the universe want to DO something about their city and it's troubles, while the "regular"people in Marvel movies are just background, and are just going about their lives hoping Superheroes will save them. BTW - these are just movies about comic books. "Don't get goofy on me" (Ed Wood)

[@anaveragefilmmaker1422]

@@thevincentgonzalesplan Wow! You said so much, yet so little

[@anaveragefilmmaker1422]

@Ricky Nuggets Even Mike liked the movie. And that's totally rich coming from a RLM fan. You just proved my point. Jay's fucking words are not final. He's a just a self indulgent obnoxious know it all that attracts other people with similar personality traits.

[@MortonSeinfeld]

@Ricky Nuggets I hate to call projection, but you're literally describing yourself. You're butthurt that people disagree with you.

[@Revan-eb1wb]

@Ricky Nuggets fuck off, dumb edgelord

[@QuantumElectricians]

"Baby's first Taxi Driver" Hahaha

[@spooderlover3512]

Man these types of comments made me think taxi driver is overrated, I never did until 20 reviews say the same exact thing

[@daftbanna7202]

@@spooderlover3512 its better than fucking joker

[@samsmith3590]

@@spooderlover3512 If that's you're opinion then i really don't think you should be allowed to talk about film, go watch transformers 13.

[@dankestranch8738]

@@spooderlover3512 i absolutely love the joker but i gotta say taxi driver is way better

[@Marston9413]

@@samsmith3590 I have only seen taxi driver once and didn't like it but I was also a teenager and probably just didn't get it.

[@chaz2damax]

I feel like Jay missed the part where Thomas Wayne says that all the people that aren't the rich are clowns

[@gorgurus]

I feel like jay missed a bit of the forced ''simplicity'' of the movie... The fact the romance was super underwritten and*SPOILER* veery predictable, was very much on purpose, I believe. He's overcynical in this review for some reason

[@84jesterx]

True, but I don't think that's a legitimate reason to start rioting and literally murder. But, WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY as this movie kept bashing you in the head with.

[@groinBlaster31]

@@84jesterx clown mask = vagina hat. Thomas Wayne clowns = grab em by the poosy. This kind of shit happens all the time now.

[@BloodOrange111]

I feel like they missed a ton of stuff. I don't think either one of them has seen The King of Comedy, so they didn't catch any of those connections. They didn't mention the subtle yet important change to the Wayne parents getting killed. They were killed for who they were as 1%'ers not just a classic mugging gone wrong. They missed the way that it was left to you to determine whether or not the Joker was actually Thomas Wayne's son or not. Thomas Wayne was portrayed as a ultra rich dickhead and definitely had both the resources and motive to make his love child scandal go away. There's really no reason why we should just assume that those documents at Arkham are genuine. They missed how Thomas Wayne was portrayed on the TV as the godsend that will save gothem, and his own words being "I alone can save us". Jay got really hung up over his disbelief that protests and a political movement would begin over some murders in a subway. But historically speaking, that really is how some huge movements begin. Just look at the Rodney King Riots. After decades of black and brown people feeling discontent over the way that they had been treated by law enforcement. Many people claiming they had been unrightfully harassed, or even in some cases brutalized by the LAPD. Finally they had hard evidence to show the world that the problem was real. The film did a pretty great job setting up the fact that Gothem was beginning to boil over and the city was on edge. There's much more I can say about this movie. but I've got to head to work.. I think it's the best movie of the year so far. and I'm not afraid to say it. Joaquin Phoenix's Joker is better than Heath Ledger. FIGHT ME.

[@wadebishop1413]

So much of the movie is forced like that Thomas Wayne line and the clown temp agency. They didn't miss much. The movie isn't that sophisticated outside of Phoenix's acting prowess. Much of it is nailing square pegs in circle holes. Films like Taxi Driver and Fight Club are much less sloppy.

[@bafflestrike2358]

Jay's commentary seemed uncharacteristically uninsightful this time.

[@MrRocksW]

Yeah feel like he is being a bit contrarian here, I usually agree with him but I think this review is a bit too harsh

[@Commander_Shepard.]

@keflar5 shut up sperg

[@HCSR2]

Undoubtedly.

[@whocantexplain]

keflar5 shut up sperg

[@rainmaker6261]

I'm not sure how he missed the thomas wayne interview where he's discussing the subway murders and their link to class warfare and he describes lower class people who haven't achieved anything as clowns. That's why everyone starts protesting in clown masks. It's basically the basket of deplorables phenomenon

[@VaporeonEnjoyer1]

I'm glad they were able to watch the movie without being murdered.

[@CatLives9]

My expectations were though. RIP

[@MegaSam777]

I’m not. 1/10

[@ImmaLittlePip]

Gamers didn't rise up Mission failed we'll get em next time

[@Greendalewitch]

Oh, they were murdered at the screaming. They just still showed up after their death to review the movie. That is what we call commitment.

[@weir-t7y]

It's almost as if journalists were fear mongering and trying to meme a shooting into existence for clicks 🤔

[@AliDixon95]

This was a good film It was also instantly obvious that he was imagining the kiss with the woman and every other scene

[@satyrdietrich]

I'm usually in the Jay camp with these reviews but here it seems like Jay was being intentionally obtuse.

[@beyonddronedup8375]

Yeah it's like he intentionally dumbs down everything in the movie.

[@cdreyes81]

Agreed.

[@cdreyes81]

@@alexjones7043 agreed.

[@SejoRM]

The fact that he wasn't able to properly put into words why "the first 1.5 hours were sloppy" other than that it lacked build-up, to which mike gracefully responds exactly what I was thinking (they took 2 hours!), shows how he didn't want to accept that Todd Phillips made a fine movie.

[@VideoMeltdown]

Nope, the movie is just shit

[@Minion777]

The inciting moment, from what I could tell when watching it, was a mixture of Joker shooting the 3 guys on the train AND Thomas Waynes response to it.

[@eammon_wright]

garbage riots/strike

[@davidgummersall3161]

Jay: "I saw this coming a mile away." Also Jay: Can't follow the obvious and multiple references to civil unrest or Arthur's dwindling medication.

[@griml0gic420]

@SuperNoone89 maybe it isn't a masterpiece, but it is by no means exceedingly mediocre

[@davidgummersall3161]

@SuperNoone89 He can dislike whatever he wants. But if a person is going to make money reviewing movies, then he better know the plot points of the movie. Jay mentioned multiple "issues" with this film that aren't even issues if he'd actually paid attention. He says he doesn't want movies that are "theme rides" but then he complains that this one takes its time and focuses on one character.

[@Yuri-kh8wv]

@@Archonus Falling down is so much worse than Joker, what the fuck. Taxi Driver and Joker can be similiar but they're also so much different, Travis isn't beat down at the any point in the movie, what drives him into madness is mainly his loneliness and the city's promiscuity, also his disturbed sense of moral. In Joker the point is the lack of empathy on a fucked up society (yes i had to say it) that can drives someone into madness. It seems that the people who brings Taxi Driver into this kind of discussion never watched the damn movie.

[@davidgummersall3161]

@@Archonus Mike had to remind Jay of references to the medication and the events surrounding civil unrest. So, no, he didn't see those things. And when Mike reminded him, he simply disregarded them as "sloppy" or "muddled" to avoid being wrong.

[@iamheretowatchh]

@SuperNoone89 if his fat ass doesn't like being judged, should find another job

[@gspendlove]

"I was terrified!" -- Scarecrow "Raises a lot of questions." -- Riddler "Purr-fect film." -- Catwoman "Left me feeling cold." -- Mr. Freeze "Wah-wah-wah-wah" -- Penguin

[@DogOfHades]

Also Mr. Freeze "...Who would have thawed it?"

[@bkk397]

Whyyyyyy...- Batman

[@theforgottenones1542]

Not saying Joker was a perfect movie, but it definitely wasn’t as bad as Jay was saying. Usually agree with these fellas but I feel like Jay went in wanting to dislike the movie

[@TheUnoriginalDrCorgi]

The Forgotten Ones i think that’s the joke

[@chriscawley3676]

It does feel like he wanted to dislike it rather than viewed it with a critical eye. I disagree with almost everything he says in this review.

[@jamesbell1186]

Yeah I agree. I have A LOT of criticisms of the movie and it’s definitely overrated but is still a good film overall, and really saying anything other than that just shows an inherent bias against the film

[@Jaigarful]

I didn't like it much. Felt like the climax was too close to the end and there wasn't a proper descent from that. There was a couple scenes I really liked, but the movie was just too slow. It spent a lot of time laying the groundwork, but I dont think it paid off well enough.

[@jamesbell1186]

@Jaigarful I can agree with that. For a film titled “Joker” he only really becomes Joker in the last 20 minutes, and even then he’s more of a bumbling bafoon than a criminal mastermind. It’d be the equivalent of Batman only ever putting on the costume in the in the final battle of Batman Begins. It feels like the script was originally designed to be a Taxi Driver reboot (as the story structure is almost identical, and some of the scenes are even almost shot for shot the same), and then Warner Bros redesigned it to squeeze in the Joker and make it a supervillain movie so it’d sell more tickets.

[@MichaelAE]

I just saw the movie and I don't understand 2 of Jay's criticisms. The first is about the medicine. Arthur lost his job and the government closed down the healthcare facility that helped him get his medicine. He even asked how he would get it if the healthcare stopped. It's clear to me that the movie is implying that medicine wasn't something he was able or willing to get his hands on, which is probably a big factor in him becoming the Joker. He stopped taking his medicine WAY before the 2 dudes showed up. It's not like medicine is something a mental patient is going to go out of his way to get when he's in a downward spiral that he has no control over, especially when he actually feels better as the Joker. I had a family member that was bipolar and even though she often understood that her manic episodes where self-destructive, she would feel better and was more mentally stable with her medicine, it was still always seen as her biggest enemy and she always felt on top of the world during these episodes. Medicine wasn't something that was on her mind, unless she had people that reminded her of it constantly and Arthur already killed or wasn't in contact with the people that would. I thought the movie did a pretty good job of trying to show us what that would be like from the perspective of the patient. The second criticism I didn't understand was about the riots. To me, it was pretty clear that the city was already on the verge of chaos and Wayne was shown to be someone that would offer a glimmer of hope, until he decided to mock people by calling them clowns. The murder of those three dudes was not the cause of the riots. It was Wayne's reaction to it and his mockery of the general public that caused them to riot.

[@grantmalone]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the newspapers have the headline "Kill The Rich" before the Wayne reaction?

[@teethcoat4274]

I wouldn't really call those Jay's criticisms, but more examples he used for the criticism, "It was shoddily written," which is kind of fair, I'd say the writing wasn't that good (eg. checklist), but the direction made up for it.

[@calgarmaximus]

I think the fact that the garbage was backing up due to cuts was supposed to really hammer home the point that Gotham was in a downward spiral.

[@SpaceOink]

There are three critical points why the riot took off. First was when Arthur shoot the three guys in the subway. Second one was when they chased Arthur and accidentally shot the civilian. Third and final straw was the pushover when the Joker shoot the TV host.

[@beau6113]

Either Jay was not paying attention or was biased against the writer/director. The fact that he compulsively dumped on Hangover throughout the review suggests the latter.

[@RexRye]

I disagree with Jay’s statement that Arthur’s character is underwritten, large chunks of the movie are solely dedicated to Arthur’s mannerisms and the way he reacts to the world around him, like the way he reacts to the lady on the bus telling him to leave her kid alone, and how it’s implied he wants to kill him self multiple times throughout the film etc.

[@rindoubaka1574]

Yeah he wasn't underwritten. He was purposefully ambiguous. It would be a terrible Joker portrayal if we were hand fed his motives and backstory.

[@Strider119119]

I think the best moment in the film is when you see him finally realize what he wanted. We see in his journal "i hope my death makes more cents than my life." At first you could look at it like him just not spelling it right but when he reads it during the talk show where his plan is to suicide, he realizes that his death would just boost their ratings and keep pushing the ideals he's been attacked by throughout the movie so he'll just kill De Niro instead. There's a lot of nuance in the film.

[@IronicHavoc]

@@rindoubaka1574 I don't think he wants anything hand fed. I don't necessarily agree with him, but there's lots of different areas for nuance and build-up to be applied, and different people have different priorities when it comes to the execution. Finding a particular case lacking =/= wanting it spoon fed, you just want more time dedicated to certain aspects - and again, it's all highly subjective.

[@PabloOlbapPablo]

Since it is ambiguous people can take away different stuff from his character, including not taking really anything of substance from him. I liked him, but just cause it worked for me doesn't mean it'll work for everyone.

[@skullofrebellion6653]

And its such a weird thing for him to say considering Arthur was on screen the entire movie. Every scene. And you cant tell whats real and whats not because hes the narrator. Thats what makes it so interesting and yet he missed the mark completely on that

[@vengeance1701]

Seeing that Starfleet symbol on Mike's computer...and knowing what was to come with Picard....oh, poor Mike.

[@alexanderforbes1452]

When the social worker is telling him that they're cutting funding he asks her how he's going to get his meds, the implication being he stopped taking his medication because he couldn't get it anymore. Also someone snapping after losing their job is a trope because it's what actually happens, people rarely snap without an inciting incident, a negative upheaval that causes the person to feel as though they have nothing to lose. Gotta say it felt like Jay was trying to dislike this and deliberately ignored development and plot lead up then said it wasn't there. I'm not as big a fan of this as just about everyone else, I did like it but I wasn't wild about it, and not everyone can like everything, but Jay comes off a bit like the bitter old man determined to have a bad time.

[@Rovou7]

Alexander Forbes yeah Jay was sort of rubbing me the wrong way this half in the bag. Mike was trying to explain his position with context and Jay was just like “nope. Movie bad”

[@aeteno703]

Punk Dorris no, but he would have to find someone else to write the scripts for him, which im assuming is a hard and expensive thing to do for a Gotham citizen

[@sagniknath5537]

very true. Usually I side with Jay whenever their individual opinions become divisive. But this time round, I felt as if he was so forcefully trying to dislike the movie based solely on the fact that it was directed by the Hangover guy. Also, he seems to think it's a weird choice that Jacquin was in close up shots about 90% of the time. I think the point there was to establish the Joker as an unreliable narrator. Which means a lot of the events shown in the movie might not have even really happened. I do wish they touched more on this

[@Revacholiere]

very strange to see Mike be positive and Jay be the bitter old man

[@joe14636]

@@sagniknath5537 I don't know much about Todd Philips but I don't see why directing the Hangover discredits you as a 'real' filmmaker. I don't like those movies either, but it's not like the dude is incompetent or incapable.

[@annabelle2523]

I love when Jay hates something and Mike is just struggling to defend his right to enjoy things

[@12SPASTIC12]

Just like that one Ghost Hunters episode

[@harrisongoertz1346]

12SPASTIC12 Except this time it was for something good

[@PK-MegaLolCaT]

@@onnixcarmichele3911 trying at least. this movie ain't sloppy.

[@jaydenrock]

I don’t get Jays hate for this movie. It’s a really good movie. The 3 guys who got shot in the subway is based on a actual event that happened in NY. So he is wrong. When that actually happened people were rooting the shooter encouraging it. They claimed they were happy someone was fighting back to crime. He is way over reacting.

[@fafofafin]

@@onnixcarmichele3911 objective quality lol

[@darkpuppetlordful]

I mean Arthur discovers that his mom wasn't only crazy, but allowed her boyfriends to beat him, seems like a "created a monster who they then sedate to hell" thing

[@itsasecrettoeverybody]

The movie is told by the joker's point of view, and he wasn't interested about politics... This is why we don't see an elaborate set up for the protests.

[@miraculoussimpson6785]

yea and he was also a shitty narrator himself, creating these scenarios with his "girlfriend" or people laughing at his jokes at Pogos or his "girlfriend" thinking that murdering those three guys makes him a hero. It was all set up this way to show his delusions and imaginations, but Jay couldn't understand that.

[@itsasecrettoeverybody]

@@miraculoussimpson6785 indeed

[@Phoenixifyable]

No one said anything about an “elaborate set up”. But you still need to build up the main conflict of your movie more than just a little bit

[@itsasecrettoeverybody]

@@Phoenixifyable The protest aren't the main conflict of the movie, they are just a scenery piece.

[@Phoenixifyable]

@@itsasecrettoeverybody what is a “scenery piece”? It’s not just background fluff if that’s what you mean. They directly impact the themes and conflict of the movie, and are pivotal to Arthur’s descent.

[@tothbrush]

He goes off his meds because he has no job and social services had funding cut so he had nowhere to get the meds.

[@jaysondavey3658]

Also, they address it in the movie three separate times: once in the therapist scene, which ends with Arthur asking where he'll be able to continue to get his meds, a brief second time when Arthur pours his medication onto the counter and only two pills fall out, alluding to the fact that he'll soon run out, and finally, after he runs out of meds and his hallucinations have worsened, he admits it directly to his old coworkers.

[@Petey0707]

@@jaysondavey3658 The tone of each scene is different as well. The first is more exposition-filled and monotone, the second depressing and anxiety-induced (as a person with mental illness that was my first response ..) and the last a blatant case of black humor with his, "I stopped taking my medication now.. I feel a lot better!" line. Jay is being a hater, hater, intimidater.

[@MrCaseySasaki]

@@Petey0707 "hater, hater, intimidater" lol

[@JessieHTX]

@Karl V Redweld I was trying to explain this to my sister who says the beginning is too boring. I disagreed with her and said that the monotony and depression are necessary for his build up into Joker. You worded it perfectly.

[@solaariz]

Haha “I’m gonna trust the guy who claims to have an emotional connection to Ant-man & The Wasp” Lolol best line of the show

[@stephendarcy9803]

Best line of the century!!

[@killergoose7643]

The backlash to Scorsese has proven him right 100x over.

[@toastysock]

@@killergoose7643 No, actually.

[@Falangist]

That's just your opinion.

[@Lone432345]

Frankly Escapism been apart of Cinema since the beginning. In the 1930's it was Dracula and Frankenstein. In the 50's its was Gaint Monster and Space Aliens. In the 80's and 90's it was tough guys blowing shit up. And now its Superheroes. This is nothing new.

[@CatsMeowPaw]

I can't but feel this entire review was heavily influenced by The Hangover, which is weird as it's a different movie in a completely different genre. Is the director forbidden making a different style of movie for the rest of his life?

[@chriscawley3676]

I might have had preconceived ideas about the film and had lower expectations had I known who was directing. Sometimes it's better not to know so much. You can have a more open mind.

[@OptimisticCynic715]

He was involved with Borat too. Must have some range.

[@luiginastro8831]

yes

[@iamyoursaviour]

I like that Phoenix has seen and enjoyed this discussion review

[@luiginastro8831]

I don't think he actually has, though. I know what you're referring, but I don't think he was talking about Mike and Jay.

[@jspekter8410]

Did jay just say this movie made him feel like The Hangover? Was he even watching?

[@brackmibbleton1631]

He said it had the same problems

[@swall]

Jay had bias going into the film because of the director, you could tell Mike was judging the film on its own merits though.

[@AndyTomlins]

Its called an opinion. One I dont totally agree with but its nowhere near the masterpiece some teenagers are making out. The socialist message is so on the nose. Yes Capitalism bad.

[@nathanb5579]

@@AndyTomlins "teenagers"

[@AndyTomlins]

@@nathanb5579 Well people still living with their parents and are mad at society for all their problems. Maybe no longer teenagers but I'm 37 so it used to be teenagers doing that.

[@Starvin-Marvin]

Jay forgot about Arthur asking, “Where will I get my meds?” when his social worker told him the city cut their funding.

[@MegaMan-bs3oy]

He must of nodded off. Missed his stomping his boss in the alley imagination. Cut up pictures of naked girls in his book. Doodles about his death and suicide I mean come on jay wake up

[@butthz8850]

Jay forgot or wasn't there for the film. Big swing and a miss for his review.

[@buddha4tw]

I feel Jays opinion is colored by a director he dislikes.

[@vapoet]

It seemed that way... He should have watched the movie on its own merits, THEN think about the director.

[@Night5225]

I just don’t understand what exactly he didn’t work so much for him past the introductory “check mark” stuff in act 1. Not to comment on the film myself, but I don’t really think he considered the film’s merits too much next to its more derivative or less-explained parts.

[@GabeGX]

IMO Mike & Jay are the legit 21st century successors to Siskel & Ebert... and Jay certainly went full Siskel in this review: straining to nitpick things about a good movie so he can appear above mindless popular opinion. Most of time it works, because most studio films are hollow, craptastic attempts to cash in on established franchises. But in this case, this was actually a good movie and Jay is being ridiculous.

[@memerick420]

I was agreeing with everything he said and I love the hangover.

[@bennymountain1]

Director he dislike makes another movie he dislikes? You don't say?

[@halcyon5zippo]

I never disagreed with my husband, Jay, until I watched this review.