HALLOWEEN: THE THORN TRILOGY RETROSPECTIVE - Michael Myers’ Strangest Story

A retrospective on Halloweens 4, 5, and 6, known as The Thorn Trilogy, covering how Michael Myers returned, the rushed production that led to the disappointing Revenge of Michael Myers, and the chaotic Curse of Michael Myers that forced a new vision for Halloween to be made.
PATREON - / mattdraper
TWITTER - / mattdraperyt
#horror
#michaelmyers
#halloween
Music:
"Halloween 4" by Alan Howarth
"Halloween" by John Carpenter
"Sweet Sensation" by Traxx
"Oracle" by Dance With The Dead
"Ghost In your Stereo" and "Monsters" by The Midnight
Sources:
screenrant.com...
halloweenspeci...
• The Making of 'Hallowe...
www.dreadcentr...
weminoredinfil...
www.boxofficem...
birthmoviesdea...

[@sebastienvondoom8615]

The trilogy so weird that it caused Halloween to have multiple timelines

[@Xehanort10]

Halloween's timelines have nothing on how weird The Texas Chainsaw Massacre continuity is where every sequel after 2 is an alternate sequel to the original since studios wanted more despite Tobe Hooper killing the Sawyers off at the end of 2.

[@CorbCorbin]

@@Xehanort10 Mr. Tobé Hœpér, really didn’t even want to do a sequel, but he didn’t want someone else doing it either. I mean, think of how many sequels, that nearly every one of the slasher characters had by 86’. Jason was on 5, by 85’, Fred was filming 3, Michael was filming 4, and there were sequels for shit like Silent Night, Deadly Night. It’s the perfect satire, deconstruction of the realistic tone of his first Massacre.

[@devontehuntley6274]

@@Xehanort10 And 4 tried to just merge 2 and 3 together in the same continuity when those two movies obviously cannot coexist. The makers just did not care at all. 3D was utter trash and a complete destruction of the timeline, and then the latest movie from last year makes no damn sense giving Leatherface's age despite the original still occurring fifty years earlier. UGH....

[@johndez5213]

Halloween 2 caused the franchise to have multiple timelines lol

[@peterludwig4599]

They should do the Samhain trilogy next, open up the multiverse and giving the directors the chance to continue as they please. I mean the scripts are still there and ready. It would be a risky project, but it could pay of big time.

[@johnnymack8442]

Halloween 4 was awesome. Halloween 5 is where it starts to fall apart. Killing Rachel too soon. Focusing on all new characters. The hermit beginning instead of the dr.death beginning. And the man in black. So now Halloween 6 has to fix all these problems.

[@angelaholmes8888]

Yeah I really hated that Rachel was killed off that was really stupid

[@jared1964]

@@angelaholmes8888 Rachael and Jamie should have been endgame.

[@tgriffin3059]

Halloween 5 kept the focus on Michael Myers stalking his victims, and on Loomis stalking him....the classic Halloween motif. The overwhelming majority of the film is business as usual...but even BETTER...5 focuses on the same things as the original, but features more graphic violence, and more kills, as well as INFINITELY better looking women...The Man in Black was barely in the movie...he was like a phantom, who was left up to the imagination...Not their fault that 6 decided to go the direction they did. Halloween 5, from beginning to end, was a beautifully crafted film.

[@downrodeo2112]

I love Loomis going insane in these ones.

[@Xehanort10]

12:13 H5 has Loomis at his craziest.

[@yukiminsan]

if I make it in hollywood I promise to bring back the cult of thorn in the next reboot

[@ohdannyboy4727]

Decent use of the thurisaz rune from norse mythology. Should have tied it to a cult trying to resurrect Jotunar through evil dudes like micheal. That way it ties into the culture they are taking from. Of course I wouldnt expect them to go that deep.

[@viciousblissvideos]

When you have Michael defying the laws of the universe, it begs for the question to be answered. He has always been sorta poorly explained. The original humanized him too much and had him driving long distance. That was too much already. I’ve never understood this idea that he’s scarier without a motive. He clearly does have a motive in the first one as he first spots Laurie at his house. Sister or not, it clearly establishes that he wants to relive his original crime. He also shows fear in the original movies. He avoids conflict. Him wearing the ghost costume was also really bad. Michael should not be a prankster. For me, Halloween 2 corrects problems with the original. And he’s much more intimidating in that one. Four should not really even exist. No way Loomis survives that explosion in such good shape. His injuries look like he only scalded himself with that lighter some. The force of the explosion without the fire was already lethal. The fire truck would have needed maybe ten minutes to arrive and start the water. Something like Thorn was all you could really use to explain all the insanity going back to the original. The driving, the motive, the Wolverine level powers. Why didn’t they just surround Michael with cement? Clearly he was able to be contained for a decade in that basement. H20 took the insanity to a whole new level. Did Michael learn how to read a map? Go into the gas station and pay in cash? Buy himself some Cheetos? He must own a bacta tank that is far superior to Darth Vader’s as well. Resurrection is all sorts of bad, but it’s still a Halloween movie at its core. H2018 wasn’t too terribly offensive. Michael being captured takes away a lot of his mystique though. Would have been better for him to be at large with Laurie finally tracking him down. Kills was a self-parody with the Wolverine stuff ramped up to a ridiculous level when they promised us realism and not to make the same mistakes as before. I’ve watched half of Ends and it’s ok as an original movie. You wouldn’t even know it’s a Halloween movie if they didn’t tell you. I’ve heard it gets worse later on. Everyone seems to have struggled with how to extend a story that really wasn’t designed to be extended. To me, the Thorn trilogy handled it the best by far. Loomis was irreplaceable and they never went off the rails as badly as what came after.

[@JIGSAW941]

He is evil incarnate he cannot die he may change person or shape evil NEVER does especially if your marked by the god of thorn

[@sullyfox4993]

The Thorn Trilogy is the perfect example of Hollywood trying to push more product onto fans with neither appreciation nor understanding of the original source material. The sad irony is if Carpenter were allowed to create his Halloween anthology the way he originally envisioned it, with each movie telling its own story in its own way, we might've gotten a Carpenter sequel to Michael Myers' original film down the road that didn't feel forced.

[@DiegoReviews]

It’s amazing how easy it is to mess up one of the most simple masks in movie history.

[@MattDraper]

All I know is that if the Halloween franchise can mess up a good thing, it will!

[@CorbCorbin]

They overthink it. In one of the docs, there’s a costume guy, who has quite a few of the masks, and talks about how long it took for them to decide what to use.

[@anthonyjordanmoviesandmore2470]

Well considering you would have to pay William shatner for his likeness I can understand why the mask is different

[@travzimmerman1340]

@@anthonyjordanmoviesandmore2470 No you wouldn't it wasn't a William Shatner mask it was a Star Trek Captain Kirk mask they made modifications to.

[@themadrapper101]

I prefer the masks in Halloween 4, 5 and 6 over 2018, Kills and Ends.. Being since everyone is currently high off the hype and critic's riding the wave paid to promote these new movies as the best since the original. A lot of new fans actually believe this regardless of all of the overlooked cringe.. Halloween H20 was once critically acclaimed said to be the best since the original, but now its one of the least ones fans talk about and even trash it. H20 did have one of the worst masks, 4's mask is underrated actually... The new masks in Kills and Ends looks like they been pooped out of an elephants butt. A crossover between Rob Zombies version of Myers mask and Leatherface. And they constantly want to take his mask off when it's best not knowing what his face looks like. The only shot of his face should of been left in the very first film. After that director's force us to be interested in seeing his face Even Michaels mask in Halloween Resurrection is better than the mask in the last couple movie's.

[@anthonyhudak9363]

I honestly would've loved if they kept the bandaged mask in 4 and maybe he'll get the classic mask in 5. It would've been perfect irony with all the teens running around dressed like Michael and the real Michael isn't even wearing that mask

[@MattDraper]

I’d never thought of that but I love that idea

[@whobitmyname]

Agreed. The bandages and jumpsuit from the gas station scene was a fantastic look. Also, I dig that twist there.

[@mandoso7222]

Fr

[@sykoticwolf]

A fucking youtuber got better ideas than these people jesus christ that would of been awesome

[@3GPtv]

Great idea. He looked most like himself with the bandages than with the stupid mask WITH SIDEBURNS.

[@queencancerous5332]

The goofy cop music in Halloween 5 is one of the most baffling music choices I’ve ever heard in a movie.

[@somethingclever8916]

the director was French and hes hardly had a career after that is very telling

[@themediumcheese]

@@somethingclever8916 you had me at French

[@dn22pkkdd476]

It's so baffling, it swings around to become brilliant. Like the slide whistle car flip in 007. Good shit pal

[@JohnnyBlade78]

Huh, almost like it’s supposed to signify that they’re pretty shit cops or something. I mean the majority of their police force was wiped out in 4

[@WolfRaging95]

That music unfortunately lives rent free in my head and not in a good way. 😭

[@matthewennis3591]

The series has gotten to a point where I now only view the original as cannon. And every sequel and reboot including my favorite (3) are just fun what-ifs.

[@thewhitewolf7886]

My thoughts exactly.

[@PurpleRain500]

That’s a shame. The original timeline was fantastic including the Thorn Trilogy.

[@guyverjay1289]

​@@PurpleRain500 - it really wasn't. The only sequel worth bothering with is the second film

[@PurpleRain500]

@@guyverjay1289 I couldn’t disagree more. When it comes to suspense and atmosphere you will not beat 4-6. The H4 rooftop chase, the laundry chute scene in H5 and the tunnel chase scene in H6 were worth the price of admission alone.

[@luccirobbins6675]

@@PurpleRain500you mad tripping.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

All the Thorn Trilogy does is make me wish they could’ve continued with Jaimie Lloyd as the new Micheal Myers.

[@MattDraper]

I would have loved to have seen that, especially since Michael’s had so many reboots now

[@robertpreston2220]

that would suck

[@mattstorm6568]

A 10yr old girl the killer? Give me a break.

[@robertpreston2220]

@@mattstorm6568 Plus fans would have hated Michael not being the killer

[@mattstorm6568]

@@robertpreston2220 For sure.

[@BoyNamedSue4]

I never got why the mask was so hard to get right. It may not look the exact same but they made the first movie for the price of a used car. How are multi million dollar films not able to do it.

[@CorbCorbin]

Carpenter caught lightning in a bottle. He had a serendipitous moment, with an excellent crew, and cast. The idea is simple, and the biggest thing that the original benefits from is the score. Carpenter is a master at scoring his movies. The shots, with Michael watching, stalking just out of sight, as a few perfect notes from a synthesizer go off, in what is an anti-jump scare. The movie has jump scares, but it also had music cues, that give a chill, alert us to what’s about to happen, or not, and the movie’s low budget, would’ve been much more evident without it.

[@chasevids14]

Short answer: laziness, to make a quick buck and cash in on a popular franchise at the expense of accuracy and love that went into the original. As much as I love 80’s movies, executives really had a field day with beating a dead horse. Films that were inspired by Halloween like Friday and Nightmare upped the stakes with bigger body counts and gorier kills so Halloween had to match that because it was popular at the time. It’s really a case of when your idols become your rivals. Lots of kills and gore work well for those franchises but not Halloween. What made the original so great was the simplicity. When there are excess budgets with money flying left and right it can sometimes go into the wrong places.

[@Mer0lk]

Yeah, laziness & greed. The make-up/costumes on Freddy & Jason kept the quality or even improved(Friday part 7's Jason looks amazing!), meanwhile the studio making Halloween sequels couldn't even get a simple mask right and it looked worse and worse for every sequel(maybe minus Halloween 2).

[@MR.__G]

@Raylan Givens I agree ! The original, rob zombie & the current films have the best mask by a landslide.

[@Mer0lk]

@Raylan Givens You're probably right. I found the remake too insulting and outrageous to bother rewatching.

[@alfa01spotivo]

bro Halloween 4 slaps so hard for no reason. Love it. Best thing is there is no thorn bullshit involved either

[@dustinhogle3844]

HALLOWEEN 4 is literally the BEST in the entire series. I can’t believe how badly they(the director and Akkad)screwed up H5. And we all know how they screwed up the production of H6 was. Producers interrupting with the director etc.

[@MR.__G]

@@dustinhogle3844 you have to be kidding ? That’s arguably the worst mask in the series & the worst looking myers. Has zero intimidation factor. Also how does myers & loomis survive an explosion & being burned ? Myers also got shot in his eyes but apparently it didn’t affect him lol.. also how would myers even know how his niece looks like when he never met her, let alone know where she lives ? This story has way too many holes in it

[@dustinhogle3844]

@@MR.__G in over 30 years, that’s the “BEST” argument HALLOWEEN “fans” can still come back with? “The mask” 🙄😴 Pathetic. Also, the writer wanted a scene filmed explaining how Loomis got blasted out of the room. Michael was shot at an angle and his eyebrows were grazed. The sheriff even said “he’s never even laid eyes on her” but the transport personnel talked about her right in front of him,so he knew she existed and was in town, and he lucked out and ran into her getting a new mask.

[@MR.__G]

@@dustinhogle3844 that’s your rebuttal? There’s no way you can write something that makes logic for either to survive that explosion. Anyone in that scenario would die. That’s why carpenter wrote that ending… Btw why keep Michael hospitalized (a serial killer) instead of killing him? He lucked out 😅😅 that’s terrible writing. Out of thousands of ppl who would live in that fictional location myers just has all the luck in the world to instantly fine her lol

[@travzimmerman1340]

@@dustinhogle3844 Halloween 4 was ok. Good not great. Glad you have a hard on for it though.

[@owensreviews625]

Still crazy that Halloween 6 was one of Paul Rudd’s first films.

[@TheRonnieaj]

I think it was his FIRST film. I know Clueless released first (the gods were kind to him on that front), but I’m almost positive H6 was his actual first role.

[@markmac2206]

@@TheRonnieaj youre right, it was first.

[@travzimmerman1340]

Why is that crazy?

[@comixproviderftw_02]

Everybody gets their start in horror movies.

[@theheroinfatherr]

1995

[@stephenvelez9710]

I'm not gonna lie...I fuckin love Halloween 6❤️

[@somethingclever8916]

may I ask why?

[@stephenvelez9710]

@@somethingclever8916 It's totally insane and has a certain charm. I mean, it's a mess for sure, but they were aiming for...something.

[@thegregnorton]

if they had the thorn trilogy planned out, with the mythology sprinkled across three films instead of hammered into one, they could have succeeded where season of the witch failed, pivoting the franchise away from slasher into some new territories. oh well.

[@Clay3613]

This trilogy was still better than David Gordon Green's disaster.

[@alext8244]

How bad was that new movie wow can't believe it, the first one had such potential

[@AbaddonAlmighty]

I do like thinking about how that mask was just a mass produced, off the shelf mask from a hardware store and what it's supposed to be. "What are you going to be for Halloween?" "I'm going as a wide eyed, ghostly pale William Shatner." "Ahh shit. That's what I wanted to be."

[@Wolfbarr01]

"sorry we are out of stock for: Captain Kirk's decapitated head mask"

[@jchockey22]

im dying laughing here visualizing this .... thanks for that

[@trehubb6144]

The Halloween series has always been my favorite slasher films.

[@travzimmerman1340]

Ok

[@Mr-Geist-Bong]

I agree I think it's the fact that all the others have some personality. The animalistic Jason, The Maniacal Chucky and The dream demon Freddy all have a personality trait that sets them apart. Mickael though is the polar opposite, he has no personality and is just a pure embodiment of evil. There's just something more frightening about that. Knowing that when you look into those eyes, all you'll see is your reflection. The supernatural elements too like not dying, being able to vanish and being insanely strong without providing an explanation (when they do it removes part of the appeal which is the mystery surrounding him, is he just a man or is he more than that. That's why for me it doesn't matter who wears the mask and boiler suit but only matters that they are wearing it. Also the fact that he doesn't kill for a purpose, he doesn't kill out of defence, he doesn't kill because he likes it, he doesn't kill out of revenge. He simply just kills (aside from Lorrie). Michael will always be my favourite slasher villain. And I won't complain when they milk the franchise because I just like to see him on screen again. I'd love to see Jason and Freddy return one day too. Freddy especially if they can find someone just as amazing as Robert Englund.

[@tgriffin3059]

@@Mr-Geist-Bong Absolutely. Michael Myers is the king. He basically DEFINED the slasher genre. That's why you can have Freddy vs. Jason....but you can't include Michael in such buffoonery, because that's beneath his dignity. He has no equal. There's no one on his level. He's not a retard like Jason, or a comedian like Freddy...you can't use Michael for comic relief...For all the reasons you cite, he is in a class by himself.

[@brutalboy1000]

Can't wait for Halloween: Into The Myersverse.

[@placebodomingo3277]

The montage of Loomis yelling at Jamie is genius 😂

[@the_flyattractor8656]

I still enjoy the Thorn Trilogy despite its many, Many Flaws, and I still think that H6 Story could be Fixed! At least i think so.

[@somethingclever8916]

I think H20 was a great but i really think it would have added to the story and Laurie's paranoia that she had to abandon her daughter and Michael went after her 3 times until he succeeded in killing her. it would have added an extra layer of Both paranoia and her protectiveness to John

[@hashbrowns7188]

Tbh that would’ve made Laurie a terrible mother. Why abandon her daughter but keep her son? Also a plot point in H20 was that it was unsure if Michael had been alive all those years. In 4, Michael was known to still be alive since they were keeping him alive at the sanitarium. A lot of the Thorn trilogy would’ve had to be retconned in order for that to work, it was probably best to just ignore them completely.

[@whobitmyname]

If I ever get the urge to look back at this trilogy, I'll just peek in the bowl before I flush. With all due regards for H4 on its own.

[@atomu27]

Halloween 4 is soo good I love the two sisters relationship and how Rachel proves to Jamie she really does love her like a sister through her actions, always putting her life on the line for little Jamie. idk slashers and horror movies in general can be so mean spirited and cynical but H4 has mostly well intentioned people, Brady was brave and tried to fight Michael and the dumbass rednecks were there to help the girls in the end. In a series where "pure evil" is the main enemy I think it's awesome having love, bravery and community be what fights and defeats it.

[@damnrapunzel8130]

halloween 5 mask looks like mark zuckerberg

[@velveetaslingshot]

I remember watching the boots man cliffhanger with my friends. We were all screaming at the tv "Who the hell was that guy????" So as a movie it def worked for 15 year old boys lol

[@tryingbutfailing]

This was the Halloween we had as kids. Everyone was wondering who broke Michael out of prison for years. I didn't know everyone hated them. We loved them

[@travis_mitchell]

Always viewed the Thorn Trilogy as canon in H20, before I knew it was supposed to be a retcon. Not only did the comics connect the two, But H20 contains several references to Thorn trilogy, including Laurie’s car crash from H4, and showing a picture of bloody scissors on the wall, either being the ones Jamie used in 4, or the ones Michael used in 5. The script contains a scene in which those events are referenced, and the writer himself, Robert Zappia, even stated in interviews that the intention always was that the Thorn trilogy was canon, and that Jamie’s death was part of what motivated Laurie’s overprotection of John. Watching the films as one continuous story, it just makes Laurie’s behavior make more sense when the previous 3 films are accounted for. Also, Michael and Loomis surviving the fire in two separate timelines feels stupid. Knowing that Michael escaped in H6, presumably to never be seen again, Loomis going crazy after the Cult ordeal, having to be taken care of in his final days, Just makes a lot more sense. As Loomis didn’t go crazy in until the end of H4. The character he died as, lines up with the character we ended H6 with, not the Determined and logical Doctor we knew in H2.

[@somethingclever8916]

I agree. if in H20, it would have added a layer of paranoia and protectiveness if they had acknowledged she abandoned her daughter to protect her and she ended up getting killed

[@Weirdman20]

@@somethingclever8916 But Michael was missing for 20 years? How exactly would 4-6 be interconnected to H20? Not saying that to be mean or anything... it's just there's plot holes if 4-6 was connected.

[@travis_mitchell]

@@Weirdman20 In H20, it’s a random cop who says “That was like 20 years ago” In response to the idea it could be Michael. And the other cop doesn’t respond. That can be taken as the younger cop just not knowing the full history of Michael, and exaggerating, Making it odd the older cop would even assume it was Michael, as it has been 20 years. Unless of course, the older cop know Michael has been seen much more recently than that. If we’re to go off the Producer’s cut of H6, The last person seen wearing Michael’ Myers’ costume, was Terrence Wynn, And it could be argued that people assumed he was a copycat. However, for the fairness of the argument, we have to go off the theatrical cut. The last thing we see is Michael’s mask on the ground and Loomis screaming. Michael is presumably gone, leaving only a hospital full of dead cultists, including Terrence Wynn. In Halloween 5, Michael is briefly arrested, but for whatever dumb reason, his mask is kept on. It’s safe to assume that given how quickly Wynn shoots up the station, That not a lot of processing was done in terms of records. But it is safe to assume, pictures would’ve at least been taken upon his arrival, And a description. The crucial detail, being, *The Mark of the Thorn on his Wrist* Flash forward the the crime scene in Part 6. Police will find the dead bodies of cultists, Including Wynn, And will also see that he has a very distinct feature on his corpse: *The Mark of Thorn on his Wrist* Sticking to the logic of these films, It’s safe to assume the police would pin the murders of the last 3 films on Wynn and the Cult, Loomis sounding crazy trying to prove it was Michael, but no one believing him, As there’s no real record anywhere to prove that Michael didn’t just die in the ambulance crash in Part 4, Loomis’s persistent involvement and apparent instability, lending credence to the conclusion that Michael wasn’t involved.

[@Weirdman20]

@@travis_mitchell Okay good theory but why did John say this: "You watched him burn." to Laurie? Instead of him mentioning the events in 1988-1995?

[@travis_mitchell]

If she did believe she watched him burn, She wouldn’t have needed to fake her own death, And Loomis wouldn’t have needed to die going insane. It’s a matter of their fear not letting them accept he’s gone, And also to not acknowledge the past. If Laurie can completely change her name and move across the country without anyone finding out, A few news stories from a small town in Illinois likely wouldn’t make it to where she is. If anything, The headlines would be focused on a cult trying to take over the town, Michael just being lost in the mix as one of its many pieces. And coupled with my theory, It’s just that people didn’t think it was Michael doing the killings.

[@JoeyJ0J0]

Halloween 4 is good, in the way Nightmare 4 is good. A back to basics sequel that delivers what it promised and does a good job at it.

[@angelaholmes8888]

Yes Halloween 4 is really good I still watch it

[@Djbz170]

Halloween 6 scared me as a child. The way Michael Myers looks in the film is the scariest at least in my personal opinion.

[@Rorschach97]

I agree, one of my favorite looks of Michael, he is very sinister in that movie.

[@SuperStrik9]

I know it's not the topic of this video but Halloween 3 has probably grown on me over the years more than any other movie in the series. At first I was like "No Michael Myers wtf? I'm not watching this.". When I finally gave the movie a chance I dug it and enjoy it more with every viewing.

[@llg3pe]

Same here

[@wizard_of_poz4413]

yea it's one of the best and most innovative horror movies out there

[@kzinful]

Same here. It was a bold move from all of those involved in the film, the mixture of modern technology with old beliefs, which in the end achieved the same results except with more efficiency, more, terrifying, no?

[@nbr6116]

It was like a They Live Halloween TV Special and I love it for that

[@bujilou]

Halloween 4 is great 👍🏼 Thanks Matt. Lookin forward to the expansive Halloween 3 retrospective & analysis 😂

[@garym6315]

I just watched Halloween Kills last night and realised that Myers is my favourite horror icon. I've not seen Resurrection or the Rob Zombie films, but I feel that the character was always taken seriously and never became the joke that Krueger of Voorhees did. The quality may have dipped and some of the masks and Shape performances might have been worse than others, but at least he was always taken seriously.

[@tryingbutfailing]

They definitely made him a joke in Resurrection. It was somewhat comical if you like bad movies, but you will definitely feel like it is bad.

[@luccirobbins6675]

Don’t watch those. Especially the Zombie films. Absolutely unwatchable.

[@doujinloverXD]

I may be in The minority and may seem strange but i actually liked the Thorn Trilogy, I guess I just appreciate its quirks go ahead and crucify me but I just like it.

[@tgriffin3059]

I do, too. In fact, it's far more popular than you might think, from some of what you hear. I just wish they'd have allowed someone else to helm 6. If 6 had remained a bit more like a typical Halloween movie, that trilogy would have been even stronger.

[@doujinloverXD]

@@tgriffin3059 very well put like you could still do tke cult and thorn constellation stuff and eugenics that stuff is fine just try and make it feel a bit more organic, as thos answers a lot of plotholes from prior movies ot just needed to be planned out a bit better

[@SteveRudzinski]

After only seeing bits of each film as a child and 3 as an adult (Which I love) I finally watched the entire series last year. Funny enough 5 is one of the few I remember the most of, it's way more fun than pretty much any of the others. The story of 6 is the most interesting Michael has ever been story wise to me (up to that point), but I did see the Producer's Cut only. I walked away feeling like Halloween 3 was the best one, followed by Rob Zombie's Halloween 2.

[@terriblecertainity]

the fact that Halloween even IS a franchise is insane to me. Part one was good, said everything it wanted. Halloween 2 already is boring and tensionless. I tried watching the other ones, but found them insanely forgettable. It's like Predator in that regard. It should have been a standalone movie

[@tgriffin3059]

The Halloween concept makes for the PERFECT franchise. Michael thrives on the banal. He is in his element in normal, basic American life. Middle class neighborhoods, hospitals, schools, libraries...stalking various and sundry victims, which works the same, so whether you choose to attach a reason and motive to his agenda, or not....the movies tend to work out much the same...This concept is easy and inexpensive to make. It has shown to be timeless. It has shown to be one of the more durable and popular horror motifs. All you have to do is allow the concept to do the work for you...and THIS is usually where they run into trouble...trying to fix something that was never broken.

[@banrions]

i really like 4, but as you said, the other two fall really short and do jamie so dirty

[@LoganWood121]

Nothing like sitting down for supper and getting that Draper notification, its a pure bonus that its covering my favorite horror franchise. Halloween 4 is still my second favorite of the whole series, yes even with the underwhelming mask. That iconic poster art makes up for it. I've even got an original one sheet of it currently gracing my wall

[@TheGreatDevlin]

I was never a fan of Halloween bc my first one was H20... on TV. Being young and lost on the backstory, I think I just dropped the franchise. Only recently have I gotten fascinated with the backstory and convoluted timeline shenanigans.

[@KnightLightXL]

Ill be honest, I grew up with the Thorn trilogy and you given me details and info bout this production even I didnt know, I love these films (no where near as good as 1-3) but they have special nostalgia for me, you did these films justice and this was a great retrospective, thank you

[@foxyfoxington2651]

"...looks like he's holding in a fart..." I almost spit out my drink.

[@rickstraws92]

I loved Halloween 4. Idk what they did with 5 and 6. Wasted opportunity

[@gundamboy1138]

Still love that Paul Rudd completely forgot he was in Halloween 6. I wish I could forget about it as easily as he did lmao 🤣

[@MarksLife812]

Halloween 6 is one of the BEST sequels!

[@gundamboy1138]

It's better than 5 for sure lol

[@MR.__G]

He’s clueless lol

[@travzimmerman1340]

6 was better than 5, H20, Ressurection, RZ1, RZ2, and Kills

[@niggardlylad2008]

@@travzimmerman1340 it's definitely not better than h20 and Rob zombies first Halloween

[@oneandonlysound3453]

I think it could've worked as Jason's "gothic horror" era did, if itd been less rushed and better written. 4 set things up but 5 doesn't have enough going on, then 6 either version shoves things so fast and too much it doesn't work. That said, hot take or not I prefer it over the 2018 erasing Halloween 2 anyday. H20 also didn't replace the daughter so if anything it's the best follow up but like the thorn trilogy the sequel was a mess. I wish they would've dropped the thorn without erasing Jamie Loyd and rolled with an iconic reuniting for a sequel to h20 instead of rewriting the franchise into a greatest hits remix that the new ones are. Brotherly erasure (2) and daughter erasure (4-5) made me enjoy the reboot that naomi Harris is in even if as a different character.

[@fadingnebulous]

Halloween 5 might be largely forgettable with some strange decisions (Killing Rachel, only to leave the grating and unlikeable Tina as the secondary Final Girl for example), but it has moments that also overshadow Halloween 4 like the laundry shoot chase scene and the confrontation in the attic. Its kills are also more visceral or creative. Is it a better film?! No. But it is a complete snore like most films in the Friday the 13th franchise?! Absolutely not.

[@tgriffin3059]

Of course it's a better film. Halloween 4 is a very good film. Halloween 5 is a MASTERPIECE.

[@ryanspengler4877]

-Halloween 4 -Nightmare on Elm Street 4 -Russell/Darabont's The Blob -Friday the 13th VII -Hellraiser 2 -Monkey Shines -Waxwork -They Live -Critters 2 -Ghoulies II -Elvira: Mistress of the Dark -Child's Play -Beetlejuice -Killer Klowns from Outer Space Wow...1988 was an AMAZING year for horror movies I grew up loving. I often default to '82 and '89 as favorite film years, but '88 was no slouch for horror cheese!

[@jay2thaudy]

4 is one of my faves as well. Watch it with the OGs and 2018. Also I enjoy 6 because it's so bat shit 🤣

[@matthintz9468]

These are my feelings on the these three films, plus H20. Halloween 4: I really like this movie, and it might be my favorite sequel, second to, perhaps, H20 (mainly because of how amazing Jamie Lee Curtis was in that). The premise of Michael's survival worked enough for me to not have to suspend my disbelief too much. The music was at its best since the original. Donald Pleasence provided a phenomenal performance that felt like a continuation on the idea of fate established in the first Halloween. Danielle Harris and Ellie Cornell had an authentic, sisterly bond, and really sold the terror. Beau Starr's Sheriff Meeker is criminally underrated. When you first meet him, his behavior and reception of Loomis suggests he always knew this day would come, thus sharing in Loomis' fatalism. The opening, use of silence and music, and the look of the movie feels authentically Midwestern and autumnal. This is especially true after the power goes out, and the way the moonlight reflects off the darkened houses and Michael's eerily whiter mask. I liked the lynch mob angle, and the shootout. The series should have ended right then and there, at least for a time. Side note, and I know I'm going to get railed on this, but I actually like the Halloween 4 mask on its own terms. The whiter, featureless, less human quality about it is really creepy. It looks ghostly, or otherworldly, like something thinly trying to disguise itself as human and not quite hitting the mark. The original is still number one in my heart, but the mask in this movie is my second favorite. Halloween 5: Pure bullshit. Pleasence, Harris, Starr and Cornell - completely wasted. Halloween 6: This movie was a mess, but I prefer it to 5. Like 4, it feels authentically Midwestern and autumnal. The cast is really good, especially Paul Rudd. Some great shots include Kara Strode walking backward through the Myers House, in the dark, as he follows her. It's the lighting. Mrs. Blankenship's cool/creepy story about Halloween coupled with shots of Rudd walking through the cold at the Halloween festival. That's pretty much it. In my mind it almost feels like a standalone film, and I treat it as such. Halloween H20: This and four are my favorite sequels, followed by the original Halloween 2. I think it would have been better if they had ended the series for ten years after Halloween 4, and then do H20 with Harris having found and established a relationship with Curtis, rather than giving her a son. Harris was still acting, and would have been about the right age. You could have still had Josh Hartnett, and Jamie's sister could have still been alive. After H20, series should have ended entirely.

[@travzimmerman1340]

H20 is one of the worst. I can't believe how bad that duped the soft in the brain fans

[@tgriffin3059]

5 is just about the ONLY sequel to pay any respect to the motif of the '78 classic. For people who appreciate the original...there is not another film in the series that comes as close to replicating that approach as Halloween 5. Halloween 2 and 4 are good, but aside from them, there's hardly anything that's even worth MENTIONING...

[@ryanoseguera1207]

That black and white shot in Curse, of two men taking Michael away and putting him in the back of a van, is accidentally hilarious. The framing and blocking makes Michael look like a dopey trick ‘r treater getting taken to his parents.

[@waynebrewer1901]

Donald Pleasance terrorizing a little girl is the only reason to even watch pt. 5.

[@angelaholmes8888]

I really love the character jaime but I really hate what happens to her in Halloween 5 and 6 because she truly had potential to become a great character

[@laboy14]

Halloween 4 is actually very good in my opinion… scared me as a kid and now one of my holiday favorites 👍🏼

[@KRPeart]

I personally like the concept of the Thorn cult and it being the reason for Michael being so evil. Key word, concept. How it is in the film is pretty bad, but I do think it had a lot of promise to it. Comics and fan works have proven this.

[@mccallosone4903]

the original mask was a Captain Kirk mask painted white. subsequent masks were "michael meyers" masks, which is why they never looked quite right.

[@sbcj9]

I know they don't think 4-6 are not cannon. But in my own mind I make them cannon. I come up with my own story to connect them. Whether it's good or bad I find a way to make them all still connect.

[@themadrapper101]

Halloween H20 and Resurrection are easy to connect with Halloween 4-6 because there's a pic of bloody scissors in the beginning and he only used them in Halloween 5. Plus it didn't take place in Haddonfield she changed her name moved and everything.

[@Weirdman20]

​@@themadrapper101But why would the cops mention that Michael went missing for "20 years", and John mentioned: "you watched him burn"? Wouldn't *everyone* be on high alert since Michael killed A LOT of people during H1-H6.

[@themadrapper101]

@@Weirdman20 H20 shown bloody scissors in the crime photos intro. Scissors were only used in 4 & 5 so that's enough to open up the possibility. They never found his body after 5 and 6

[@tgriffin3059]

They put out the films. We can do with them whatever we like. For me, only 4 Halloween movies exist....1, 2, 4, and 5. They can say whatever they like...I'll do what I do...

[@misshelloareyouthere]

NOW! David Gordon Green and Jaime Lee Curtis had their Halloween reboot chance NOW it's time for actress Dannielle Harris and Makik to do their Halloween reboot. This version INCLUDES character Jaime, Michael Myer IS related to Laurie Strode and curse/cult version.

[@ginofrancejr555]

This trilogy is a big miss in the franchise so much so they recon it. But it gave us Danielle Harris

[@angelaholmes8888]

Danielle Harris was great as jaime

[@billyrice5573]

My favorite saga in the Halloween franchise. Schlocky gothic fun

[@cartervandenberg4771]

Let's be honest, if they really wanted to make this an anthology series, they should've started with the second one. Giving Michael a reason to kill Laurie makes him so much less terrifying because he only wants to kill Laurie and us as the audience are perfectly safe. Although Halloween 3 also fails to capture that small scale horror by having a giant TV broadcast conspiracy plot with androids. Overall this could've been one of the most interesting film series' out there and instead it got beaten to death trying to catch a trend that it started. *Spoiler alert for Black Christmas* Not a perfect movie, but IMO does the slasher genre much better by having a serial killer who is never seen, never caught, never understood. If they gave Michael the same treatment it would make these movies 100x scarier

[@tgriffin3059]

Black Christmas is not in the same league as Halloween. The killer is handled effectively, but the movie, in and of itself, is far too interested in showing how hip and irreverent they are, rather than making a good movie. The final ten minutes are very strong....but prior to that, it was largely a waste of time. Black Christmas may qualify as an answer to a trivia question...but that is its' only distinction...

[@robertsaladino]

The Thorn theory was actually pretty dark and a good idea but was not made well.

[@SevOneSev7en]

I love Halloween Ends, but Jamie would’ve been a much cooler killer than Corey Cunningham

[@MonkeyPowerkey]

Seeing as Halloween has become a really complicated mess of timelines of sequels ignoring other sequels etc... I think it's safe to say at this point they can do what ever the hell they want with the franchise. With Halloween Ends being out now, i'm sure the studio is probably looking at how to make more movies. They can either try and somehow continue the series after Ends. Then again i don't see how they'd do so? So my idea is to just do what they've done multiple times. Sequels to one of the films. So originaly we had H1, H2, H4, H5 and H6. Then when that failed they went back and made a new timeline that included H1 and H2 with H20 being the new canon 3rd chapter. And then they made Resurections wich was the worst of all the movies in my opinion. That failed. So they made a remake. And it did ok enough to get a sequel. And most the fans hated it. So they went back and again, rebooted it with a sequel ignoring films. This time ignoring everything except for the first one. They made a trilogy of films that would finish Michael's story. So what more can they do? Well, if they have do i say they should do a sequel to Halloween 4 next. Bring back Danielle Harris and go from there. They can explain that after the end of H4 they coverd up the hole Michael fell into and that was that. Jamie had her time in a mental hospital, but later recovered enough to start a semi normal life. But then, Michael comes back. They can dial back the psychic conection a bit so that she can sort of sense him. But that's it. And then they can mess around with us making us wonder if Michael actually is back, or if it's all her. It's revealed that he is indeed back. But that she has blacked out and killed people herself. So at the end of the film she runs off. Thinking that Michael is the one who activates her killing power or what not. The film leaves off with Michael still out there wich let's them make sequels. Honestly, i don't mind of they go a bit silly. The series has already jumped the shark several times. So as long as it's a fun murder spree i'm gonna take it. Hell, maybe they can even send Michael to space and have him kill people at Elon Musks Space X Colony.

[@madzod0076]

LOVE the ending of Halloween 4. Can still hear Loomis sobbing and crying "no, no, no"

[@baders087]

Halloween is a choose your own adventure kind of franchise. I personally watch it as a trilogy of Halloween, Halloween II, Halloween H20. [yes, obviously I ignore resurrection]

[@tomgiddens2963]

I always thought that the Thorn storyline should've been added upon.

[@joshwilliams6517]

Maybe they can revisit it for Halloween (2025)

[@CreativeStoryteller35]

Shocking opinion, but I love the Thorn timeline. It's my favorite timeline and H6 Producers Cut is my second favorite Halloween movie.

[@AriesHeat-xq5pp]

I had a mad crush on Lori's 2 friends in Halloween 78. The girl that said "Linsey Lester's barking & getting on my nerves again" *sighs* Annie was her name, & the Blonde. I was born in 1990 & I think 70's bell bottoms looked good on women. Jamie Lee Curtis wore them good when she was banging on the front door for help when she knew Michael was pursuing her. 70's bell bottoms, those are something else. I'm a 90's baby, & I'd time travel to the 70's if God allowed it. 😂😂😂😂

[@3GPtv]

All the movies since 6 miss the presence of Donald Pleasence.

[@Terelon]

I like Halloween 4's mask, it's clean, frightening and you can't see his eyes, I don't get the massive criticism of it, complain about H20's!!!, that was abysmal, I hate when you can see his eyes; Tina is one of the most annoying characters in cinematic history, the gall of them to kill off Cornell's character for her, I'm glad they nixed making Jamie the killer for 5, we want Micheal!, heck we just got him back after 10 years!, subversive was out the door with 3, by all means give us MICHAEL!, I appreciate an actor like Pleasance (RIP) being present and a trooper to act in these movies.

[@sammidizzle5599]

Although, I understand it was the 80s…I’m not sure WHY the original look of the mask would be so different to recreate?? Not that it matters, to ME, as Halloween IV and V were my favorites!! I was around “Jaime’s” age, back then, and she was an INCREDIBLE actress!!!

[@sammidizzle5599]

Elderly, disgruntled arse Dr Loomis going off on Jaime, the ENTIRE film, is lowkey hilarious, I’m retrospect 💀💀💀

[@sammidizzle5599]

12:39, as I child, I used to think this “cat” or “devil”(?) costume guy was TEEEEEERIFYING…I, STILL, kinda do, now😒😒😒

[@Aedpowell6490]

You say Busta Rhymes like its a bad thing

[@silvershadchan4085]

@MattDraper could you please make a video about FRIDAY THE 13TH: THE JARVIS TRILOGY RETROSPECTIVE - Jason Voorhees’ Strangest Story

[@Enshohma]

Halloween in here and so is the Matt Draper Halloween vids! Literally AND figuratively!

[@jenh2322]

I freaking loved Donald Pleasance in this movie!!!!😂

[@johnpittsii7524]

Thanks for the amazing coverage Matt. I ❤ the Halloween franchise

[@ItsWickked]

AMC used to play these constantly when I was a kid. Therefore I love them lol. Are they a mess? Absolutely! I remember never knowing the difference between 4 and 5 because I would only catch 10-20 min of both movies here and there . I’ve always thought it was pretty cool that the two bleed together so well I couldn’t tell the difference. Even though I was just a kid that’s still a pretty cool thing idk maybe I’m just nostalgic for these . Sure wish they were better planned and small shit like the masks were consistent but oh well. The 80’s were fucking wild man

[@masterzombie161]

The irony is that even with everyone who originally developed the genre, still did not mature or change for the better. They still resorted into a Guy in a mask. There’s nothing significant about Michael Myers in the new movies.

[@harrypothead42024]

It should have ended with Atkins pulling up in a 1983 Cutlass two-door Supreme telling Paul Rudd I know what's going on get in Fade to credits.

[@harrypothead42024]

They really miss the boat not having the cult of thorn be connected to the cult in season of the witch.

[@blove88]

The Thorn Trilogy aka Michael's Bizarre Adventure. Honestly, I feel this timeline should get a do-over after Halloween Ends (because u know damn well this ain't the last one). Just use 4 as a foundation and just go from there.

[@MichaelAMyers1957]

Although I like the producers cut of H6, I agree with you. Jamie was done dirty in H5/H6

[@blove88]

@@MichaelAMyers1957 Facts. Jamie AND Rachel deserved better than wat the 5 and 6 did to them.

[@Nono-hk3is]

Halloween III: a disappointment because it only returned 700% profit, not the expected 1000% profit

[@deedeeknutsson5205]

3 does NOT belong in the Halloween in my opinion.....the absolutely worst film I ever tortured myself to watch !!!!!!

[@IAMTRASHMAN267]

Halloween 4 is one of my favorite Halloween sequels. I like it more than 2 and just slightly behind 2018.

[@ResidentEvilWiz]

I loved this trilogy of movies because of how kooky they were. Halloween 4 is my personal favorite movie in the franchise. Halloween 5 is a goofy b movie messy that’s so bad it’s good and the design of Michael in 6 is the best in the franchise for me as he’s built like an NFL player and the mask is dope and that movie has the best atmosphere of October in the franchise. I love the thorn trilogy despite its issues and I go back and visit a lot vs the rob zombie remakes that are garbage in comparison.

[@mattstorm6568]

The mask in 4 was good and a 10yr old girl being the killer in 5 would've been absurd.

[@Taika_talvi]

Here in Germany, we regard Halloween 6 as worse than the 1930s.

[@k2bny]

oh wow 🤣

[@a.m.6719]

This is how the story should have always turned out... but coulda been better

[@JCIce007]

I really think the inevitable next Halloween reboot will be a grown up Jamie, ignoring 6 and possibly 5. Maybe working with Michael, since they still need him in there for the brand.

[@justanotherone685]

They were trying to make it fresh and interesting. I can’t blame them. How many times can you remake such a simple premise lol

[@felipe-al-ves]

Never understood why people hate the end of 4 so much, it's like Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter but done better. On the other hand 5 is the worst of them all (Along with Resurrection, of course). I would love to see a video on Halloween III (for me the best one after Carpenter's original) and the Zombie duology.

[@logandotson5600]

Another slam dunk video as always. Can't wait for the next.

[@k2bny]

Halloween 4 (despite the horrible mask) is quite good. it's a shame that it the two that followed were so disappointing.

[@robertpreston2220]

Halloween 1-6 Pcut are the best! Everything after those are pure crap!!

[@rustyperry9414]

Halloween 4 was a solid non-Laurie sequel that set up awesome events for a 5th sequel. They didn't have the guts to continue it, and wound up being a mess. Then the writers of 6 had the hard task of making certain plot points of 5 make sense, hence The Thorn Cut.

[@tokenstandpoint93]

Ever since Halloween 4 I have seen every Halloween movie in theaters. Gotta say 4, H20, Rob Zombie 1 & Kills are the only movies I've enjoyed in theaters.

[@smhfirebruh5630]

You know all of this Thorn cult nonsense would work if it was used to explain how Micheal keeps coming back instead of it being part of his backstory. So like in Halloween 1-2 Michael is just a crazy asshole but then gets cooked and dies. Then the Thorn guys do some magic to Resurrect Micheal so they can Idk kill off all of Hadonfield to gentrify the town. Oh and also the ritual created a psychic link to Jamie so she says stuff Micheal doing.