I feel like somewhere there's a game dev watching this and smiling knowing that at least some people will see and appreciate all the hours they put into these areas.
@Snake-bq3kf2 жыл бұрын
That’s funny I was actually thinking “I wonder if there’s someone at 343 seething right now because they didn’t think players would be able to access these unfinished areas.” Two different types of people I guess haha
@CabbageGod2 жыл бұрын
@@Snake-bq3kf As a game dev, I think we all expect players to find stuff like this. There's a general rule that if you don't want players to find something then don't put it in the game. Once consumers can download it onto their computers then that's it, they are going to find absolutely everything. Even if it means modding the game to hell and/or tearing apart the game files.
@ryan33352 жыл бұрын
@Lalo Salamanca I sorta agree, some places on the map are really beautiful but I think it would be cooler if they had some different biomes like the desert biome u see at the end of the game on the far sid of the ring
@zinematics2 жыл бұрын
Theory: It's also possible that the northern island is going to be used for a future Campaign DLC. It seems really strange to have a giant island with that much detail and still have it show up on the Tacmap if they were never planning to go back and use it at some point. Fingers crossed they also have other new areas in the future though, like that desert at the end of the campaign.
@SoapyCilantro2 жыл бұрын
God I hope so!!
@steveninsav2 жыл бұрын
Thnx for spoilers
@zinematics2 жыл бұрын
@@steveninsav definitely not a spoiler.
@BB6Lude2 жыл бұрын
I would like to question tho what do you think the DLC Campaign would revolve around unless you don’t think you could say considering spoilers
@SoapyCilantro2 жыл бұрын
@@BB6Lude maybe a mini-campaign around Fernando Esparza (pilot)? or maybe more side missions for master chief.
@QevDev2 жыл бұрын
That hidden cave is probably where Noble 6 has been hiding all of this time.
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
I held back the urge to call it the Secret Noble six cave.
@LazyLoonz2 жыл бұрын
dead meme didn't get energy sword in back
@craigthemonke7942 жыл бұрын
Everyone knows he’s still hiding behind those boxes on reach
@TheUnseenSoldier2 жыл бұрын
That was really good content. Straight to the point. No fluff, no bs, just answers to many of our questions expressed in a very informed and technical way. This channel is going places
@samoanwarchild2 жыл бұрын
was really surprised to see you only have 17 subs given the high quality of your videos editing. keep up the great work cant wait to see more!
@tuckergoodin76842 жыл бұрын
Make that 252
@kirtlandpratt8732 жыл бұрын
@@tuckergoodin7684 394*
@Raiack002 жыл бұрын
486
@Snake-bq3kf2 жыл бұрын
Honestly same. This is a really well put together video with a high production quality I’d expect from a bigger channel. I hope this guy continues to make videos like this!
@ArnavMishraa2 жыл бұрын
628
@justsomehalofan43862 жыл бұрын
The north island was most likely planned to be included in the main campaign before the 2/3 of the game was cut. Hopefully future DLCs make use of it. It's disappointing that 1/4 of the entire map is unused. Also is it me that thinks those large areas would be perfect for scarab fights.
@themightyquinnm1902 жыл бұрын
The northern island has an unused and unfinished health pack, that when touched, applies a green hud effect, like when using an over shield but green. It then proceeds to immediately to crash the game. I want to get footage of it, but every time I’ve gotten to it, I’ve touched it by accident and crashed my game 😂
@unknown.nm162 жыл бұрын
Hey man, could you help me out pls. I died just before the house of reckoning and spawned at a random fob base on the main part of the map. How could I get back to the house of reckoning so I can continue the campaign?
@alejandroaros40332 жыл бұрын
Was that a little red thing? I was out of bonds and saw it, when i touched it, the game crashed and a green screen appeared
@themightyquinnm1902 жыл бұрын
@@alejandroaros4033 That’s the one, if you have a vehicle you can knock it about but touch it on foot and that’s it, crash 😂
@Espartanica2 жыл бұрын
I'd also highly recommend using another easy glitch to fly a Pelican. You have to set it up at the nearby FOB before activating invincibility, but then you'll be able to hover in place at will, with a much more zoomed out view of the world. And of course, it's a Pelican, in an open world level, which is something we've wanted for a long time
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
The Pelican glitch was discovered after I had made the video, but yes, a very solid option. it's nice to be able to hover when exploring! :)
@Teh_Bean2 жыл бұрын
The thing about that though is you can't leave regions with the pelican, so it wouldn't work for this at all.
@Espartanica2 жыл бұрын
@@Teh_Bean Just go God mode and fly under the barriers. Pretty much every barrier in the game doesn't extend down to the bottom of thr map, only the kill zone, so you can explore just fine that way. I did it myself.
@Kaliburrrr2 жыл бұрын
The North Island looks a lot closer to what we were promised at E3, and I would love to see it be finished whether for modders or 343
@SqualidsargeStudios2 жыл бұрын
i get the feeling that the area with the big lake and singular sniper, will most likely become some kind of playable area in the future, possibly with some kind of dlc.
@MJSGamingSanctuary2 жыл бұрын
Its called placemarkers its a technique a lot of large scale maps use which is hiding models for quick use in plain sight at the same time out of sight. It allows for models to be rapidly accessed when queued to spawn in. A lot of open world games don't actually change geometry and geography assets but rather just have modifications done to the original asset. All in effort to reduce the games size. And allow the area that the player sees to be rendered in as hight quality as possible. Most games use a tick system that is suppose to only spawn in areas that the game detects the player has passed to generate the next area. This system however comes with a lot of bugs. As the tick system for map loading is often MONO-directional meaning unless coded properly its easy to make ticks/map loading over lap and dual load maps causing walls to not spawn in correcty allowing creative gamers to escape normal boundries. The thing with Halo inf is getting outside of the map can have consequences such as the game hanging or freezing almost entirely. To a degree one must restart the level. As in game the user will lose functionality.
@alvzcizzler2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much of making this video I really wanted to explore that island where the big lake is but I was not able to do the invincibility glitch and now I wanna go and explore it even more, I just subscribed and hopefully you can do more videos like this one!
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for time kind words! :)
@lbco132 жыл бұрын
I'm really excited to see what is added over the next few years to the campaign. Certain articles and places hinted at massive amounts of cut content, like the Northern island. Hers hoping that one day all of that cut content is readded to the campaign as dlc
@bakubread93082 жыл бұрын
it was very bizarre to me to get to The Road and be faced with the fact that you're not allowed to explore what is essentially an entire third of the map at ALL. Gotta be future content.
@MajorityFFA2 жыл бұрын
Super cool!!! Also I really appreciate the style in which you present the content. Straight to the point and very informative.
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! :)
@migilvigil2 жыл бұрын
You’re off to a great start, my dude, I look forward to seeing you do well and eagerly await the next video.
@Menry34272 жыл бұрын
The mission Pelican Down is in its own completely different worldspace just like Outpost Tremonius during its quest. It's not that the interactive elements haven't spawned in they are in a second version of the island. Would be interesting to see if there are any difference in the rest of the map while in that separate worldspace.
@sniperofgodz31692 жыл бұрын
The random effects and particles you find are these spots made by developers where they put effects as a placeholder, and then copy and paste them into the game where needed, which is why in some games, if you glitch out of bounds, you can find white baseplates with models, effects, and animations
@godzillagamr32152 жыл бұрын
I feel like the island in the top right is going to be released when they add co op because even if you have finished the game you have something fun and new to discover with your friends.
@lithonious6362 жыл бұрын
theres something just out of bounds on the third level when you go outside for the first time, just across from the front of the downed friggat floating above the cliff on the other side, where you get the tank gun, havent been able to venture out to see what it is yet
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
Interesting, thank you. I'll have a look! :)
@lithonious6362 жыл бұрын
@@JustFred no worries, i can upload footage if you have a hard time finding it
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
@@lithonious636 That would be great! I made a new save file and tried to find what you talked about but couldn't see what you were talking about 🙂
@lithonious6362 жыл бұрын
@@JustFred sorry man Christmas time was hectic, just checked and I can't find it, couldve been a bird that wasn't moving because when I went there to check there was something in a different spot that wasn't moving that turned out to be a bird
@AdmiralTrevMan2 жыл бұрын
This is insane. Good work. I knew that island was meant to be playable.
@Jarsia2 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty certain those northern islands will be playable in future campaign chapters
@Kiezly2 жыл бұрын
I really want you to go try to find that place in the skyline that looks like a guardian. In the horizon line we can see what looks like a bunch of triangles and spikes and I want to see if you can go there.
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
I'm currently looking into ways to make that possible, it is unfortunately outside of the outer barrier surrounding the map, and I am currently not aware of any glitch to go outside of it. But I can confirm that it is a crashed Guardian. In a tweet thread for one of the trailers a user said (paraphrasing) "is that a crashed guardian in the horizon?" and a developer / community manager answered something along the lines of "good eyes" / "well done". I've also seen someone using noclip / mods that took an up-close photo of it :)
@Kiezly2 жыл бұрын
@@JustFred yooo can you link the upclose photo here as a reply? or where can I find itt
@ModeSOLOgaming2 жыл бұрын
I also figured it was a guardian. My thinking is it's how Cortana got to the ring. Unless I missed something within the story (very possible, terrible attention span) it makes sense.
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
@@Kiezly I've not been able to find it again, still looking for answers and ways of reaching it 🙂
@Zeta42 жыл бұрын
@@JustFred I found a video of it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXLclKWdlslnm9E
@Doginthesleep2 жыл бұрын
I really hope they open up more exploration. I so badly wanted to fly down the spine. And explore the big island. And that cave? Like wtf? Haha Thanks for showing it off! Fingers crossed for the future I guess.
@coolshirt2 жыл бұрын
I explored under the maps there's a few places to fly under the devs left open for exploration. One spot is a perfect square. Another you gotta fly under and up and over. Another spot you can land and walk right on in look around deep and wide. There are many other places to splunk around. I tried getting into campaign parts. Under there you can see some original design but not much. I really don't understand why they left so much under the map and in places no one would see. Maybe to make the game file larger for some reason idk but they left a massive amount of detail under the map. Accidental caves were made where I went exploring in for hours hoping to find the goods. I managed in one spot to get out of my wasp under the map. Get above ground. Snag a audio file. Get back underground and grapple back around to the wasp through the pitch black squares that surrounded the tunnel systems.
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
That sounds interesting would be really cool id you could share the location of the cave where you can get in and out of the map 🙂
@rushboardtechuk2 жыл бұрын
The assumption for a lot of players is, after you've completed the campaign and got all collectibles, the only thing remaining is multiplayer. Not so. The game's Zeta Halo is an open world, so there is every chance the Campaign mode could be extended in 2022, via paid DLC content. This would make sense, since despite some areas are "currently" unpopulated, the level of detail in these would suggest they are still being worked on by the studio, for deployment as future missions.
@nonofyourbusiness76312 жыл бұрын
Halo Infinite is a "10 year game". There will absolutely be more story DLCs
@LazyLoonz2 жыл бұрын
@@nonofyourbusiness7631 i think the real reason for them saying that is because they thought they can handle a freetoplay type of game but failed because lack of content
@Unchainedful Жыл бұрын
I don’t mean to be the bearer of bad news, but I didn’t want anyone to get their hopes up. A lot of people are talking about future campaign dlc, about a month ago 343 and Xbox confirmed they will no longer be supporting the campaign of Halo Infinite, they permanently canceled all planned single player dlc. Though they will continue supporting Halo Infinite multiplayer with future updates and dlc. 343 stated that they will completely scratch Halo Infinite and rework the entire game and plot from the ground up in the next Halo game, they will continue the story in their issued books.
@dummyquiccc96952 жыл бұрын
You know? That cave doesn’t look like a natural formation.
@mayman33102 жыл бұрын
some game designer must have built it
@needserotonin53732 жыл бұрын
You really deserve more subs, your videos are so clean & well produced!
@CosmiCandy2 жыл бұрын
Appreciate the work bro. Well edited and explained. Great walkthrough!
@bladenut79402 жыл бұрын
The northern island could either be dlc or a forge map witch either could be a solid guess for why they made it so detailed
@GhostHunterGore Жыл бұрын
I'm so glad that we can replay missions on whatever save we have now and can change the difficulty anytime we want
@RoachCatJr Жыл бұрын
YESS i was waitin for a video like this. i love these type of things in Halo games
@alwayslast89002 жыл бұрын
Sick finds and great presentation
@martinmartin380772 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this. It looks like exploring the hidden map areas is more interesting than actually playing the game, which sadly, isn't tough
@Harbingeruprisingofficial5 ай бұрын
Liking and subscribing because I loved this Infinite reveal! Thanks for all your hard work!
@okamiwolf2502 жыл бұрын
That cave part made me get actual goosebumps do intense my stomach turned. I love that lol
@ronuss2 жыл бұрын
great video, that stuff out of bounds is more than just dressing for background. It all looks like a work in progress, something you see in mmos when you go out of bounds.
@JesusLopez-xp2ex2 жыл бұрын
Great quality in videos only a matter of time and you’ll get the recognition u want/deserve
@SPF90002 жыл бұрын
Your video will blow up, its in the algorithm. Enjoy the huge spike in subs
@shadyshinichi2JZ2 жыл бұрын
Northern Island going to be future expansion? Lasksky and the Spartans maybe hidden there?
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
I personally think future campaigns will explore new regions/biomes of the ring and that these islands will forever be unused.
@PonderingThought-ke6qb2 жыл бұрын
Good job! Here’s a like and comment to bump your channel up
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much! 🙏
@jrizzyjoe2 жыл бұрын
There’s a really far away structure. It’s like a bunch of spikes coming out. Would be awesome to see if you can get there. Looks like it would be some sort of playable area mission in the future.
@SupraTompan2 жыл бұрын
That is a crashed Guardian.
@garcia7132812 жыл бұрын
Just followed & subscribed! Great content 🔥🔥👍🏽
@GhostHunterGore Жыл бұрын
That last cave. I remember seeing a cave similar to that but it wasn't out of bounds.
@kingineazzy2 жыл бұрын
What about the guardian in the background ?? Surprised no one goes to it
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
It is outside of the outer barrier that prevents players from going any further. And even if one was able to go through the outer barrier it could be the case that it is so far out that it despawns the player character. I'm looking into options but it isn't as easy to get to as the unused islands.
@utekari35942 жыл бұрын
I'd be willing to bet with the level of detail in the northern Island that it'll be reused as a forge map base.
@mist1722 жыл бұрын
Got a sub from me. This is exactly the content I am looking for. Keep it up!
@jumbojimbo7062 жыл бұрын
Nice video lad, liked and subbed
@sebastiannita37042 жыл бұрын
4:44 Absolutely breathtaking
@anhadbhurji2 жыл бұрын
Your thumbnail is spectacular
@gordsuggashie19572 жыл бұрын
Cool vid! Other night I was exploring the mountain around the Conservatory and Spire area w the grappler hook, Spidey stuff. Just a little south of the Wild Kovan MKVII Armor Coating Armory. Off the cliff there is a cave down where the rock meets the hexagonal wall. Across from the cliff island. Couldn’t find my way back to the entrance and climbing up the caves seeing the invisible ground. Couldn’t make it through. Seeing the enemies and they could hear I was near just under their feet. Could only fast travel my way back. Later used a wasp to check it out again. Didn’t get lost this time… Lol
@ivan92202 жыл бұрын
Ahh yes finally, the noble 6 cave has been found... Thanks 343
@xxinfamyyyxx2 жыл бұрын
Awesome video. That cave looks super cool I wonder what they had planned for it
@miguelbedolla93022 жыл бұрын
Really good content man ! Keep it up
@butschi11752 жыл бұрын
*What if* that northern Island, is going to be like a new “Forge World” type of zone, and that’s why it’s so detailed but at the same time, so lonely.
@alvzcizzler2 жыл бұрын
I was not able to pull of the glitch, I think they patched it cause I really tried but this is the video I've being waiting for!
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
I've just gone into the game and tested it, the glitch is as of now still doable! :)
@Espartanica2 жыл бұрын
You have to save and quit, then come back into the game. Falling into it from above also works, even on Legendary. Just start falling, open up the tac map, and fast travel away
@reinhardtnilsson73602 жыл бұрын
damn i respect you for all this har work
@Furious_Baby2 жыл бұрын
Great vid bro 👍
@theonetheonlyw54832 жыл бұрын
Great video, my guy. A worthy sub indeed.
@kamenanew98672 жыл бұрын
This was very cool. New sub bud!
@dennisthemenace88252 жыл бұрын
And another halo channel is born
@blanketyt9532 жыл бұрын
While I was exploring the out of bounds islands around the house of reckoning I found a small floating red box that when ever my player model touched it my game would crash, did you find anything similar on the islands? would love to know if it crashes the game for everyone.
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
I didn't find it myself on my exploration but I later saw someone showing it off, I think it's been figured out to be an untextured/unfinished health pack! The crash may be caused by the game trying to execute some script or function in the code that doesn't exist when touching it :)
@Bi9Clapper Жыл бұрын
The haze in the cave is the ghost of Noble 6
@ALX_6.112 жыл бұрын
in the announcement trailer we can see desert,forest,ocean,vast open field area,deers,rhinos,submarine,and other coolness. Like,god everytime i go back to that trailer it's like going back to my previous dream,so beatiful man. Letter to 343 industries: Pls don't scrap everything that exist in the announcement trailer,Zeta Halo is the most beautiful Halo that ever existed in the Halo Franchise.
@USA922 жыл бұрын
Future DLC area! Awesome thanks
@vainsilence Жыл бұрын
Honestly, that northern island looks like it would be a fantastic Forge enviornment similar to Halo Reach's forge.
@carljohnson33482 жыл бұрын
Would be cool to go to the crashed guardian S-SE of the map but I think there’s an invisible wall there
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
Yes, there is an invisible wall and if you go too far away from the world origin the player character despawns which counts as a death. But I'm trying to figure out a way to get there :)
@Bi9Clapper Жыл бұрын
I really think northern and southern islands might be some small tier campaign dlc some day. If not Northern island was definitely meant to be playable
@dareka94252 жыл бұрын
So far I have clipped through the ground twice, both of them are triggered when I used ground pound. The first time I just fell off to my death. The second time I was stuck at a certain height below the floor and both the game and Shadowplay crashed. I've also seen a couple of particle emitters floating about.
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
Cool, A lot of glitches seems to be tied to the ground pound. Ground pound is for example used in speedruns of the game to intentionally clip out of bounds in some missions 🙂
@shugo51302 жыл бұрын
@@JustFred can you do a tutorial on how to ground pound glitch through terrain? There’s a lot of areas I want to re explore by ground pound meshing through windows and stuff.
@ryantruax46352 жыл бұрын
I would say the out of bound areas are very detailed as they are probably where future DLC content will take place
@crimsonquill42552 жыл бұрын
I found out today that flying too close to the House of Reckoning doesn't just trigger the time of day; it triggers the entire mission. Speedrunners could potentially utilize the Invincibility glitch, travel to FOB Hotel, and fly all the way to the House and skip approximately 60% of the game. I've had to delete my Legendary save because it marks all the missions before as done, so I don't want to get the achievement on a glitch.
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, that actually used to be the any% route, now the main strat is to do a chain of some specific teleportations using a Ghost to get to The Road :)
@OweMeOneKenobi2 жыл бұрын
Nice video fellow Scandinavian. Might have to try this out myself 😊
@rabble_rousdower Жыл бұрын
343i should just let the community finish the islands. Sad to see so much not used and left unfinished.
@HowSky Жыл бұрын
That cave at the end looks very similar to that "proof of concept" video that was floating around of the tech demo for Halo Infinite...
@EOGSS132 жыл бұрын
those north islands remind me of forge world in reach
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
Would be really cool if one could use the campaign map to forge 🤯
@crabot2 жыл бұрын
Very good video You should have more subs :)
@DaveJenvey2 жыл бұрын
I find it incredible how these glitches are found. The game hasn't even been out a month yet.
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
It's crazy, the world record speedrun is down to about 30 minutes already!
@jasonbondar32 жыл бұрын
the sniper from the norther island is from one the teases the 343 when they started show off halo and first reveled the sniper rifle
@zombies30092 жыл бұрын
I wonder if that cave will be something that gets patched in with the dlcs, if its not its pretty amazing that the cave got that far into development before getting abandoned.
@mrmrfartmanyeet20772 жыл бұрын
i dont know if theres forge yet because i havent tried but if there is i hope it has a scarab from both banished and covenant scarab and we can make them fight and see who wins once we get a scarab to fight
@FirestormDDash2 жыл бұрын
You can trigger the invincibility without the groundpound but it takes you falling into the laser well already in your map, i think you need the fast travel prompt up too. But the interesting thing is you can then back out and find yourself pushed down the hole. But if you fast traveled after your sure you were hit by the laser you would be you would be also invincible. I also had it trigger when I died above the laser and my dead body hit the laser just as the checkpoint reloaded. That bugged the game out a bit tho.
@fluffydragon33332 жыл бұрын
Perhaps the northern island is a planned DLC island that the devs are working on? seems like the barebones for something is definatley planned there
@rxr_hy26232 жыл бұрын
Underrated.
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
Thank you :)
@JawDropper_SoC2 жыл бұрын
how did i play the whole campaign not knowing i could ground pound lmfao
@valkynxivilai7651 Жыл бұрын
You got to give 343 some credit they did make a beautiful game with crazy secrets
@TheVentrexian2 жыл бұрын
It would be strange if the northern island isn't playable in the future
@JustFred2 жыл бұрын
There's a lot of cut content in the files, I wouldn't be surprised if this will forever be a relic of the past, I think the future campaigns will take place in other biomes of the ring :)
@TheVentrexian2 жыл бұрын
@@JustFred for future content sure but having all that just sit there? Doesn't fly with me lol I see something like 1 year for new campaigns then have the old areas updated for coop campaigns with our spartans doing newish things.
@fray61402 жыл бұрын
great video!
@SuspiciousKoala2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if those two stances and the Infinity charm are hidden somewhere around these inaccessible areas.
@RaSH_NisH Жыл бұрын
The one thing that annoys me about exploring this map is getting sucked down when you try to cross a gap or when I launch my self across the map because it’s really fun. There’s invisible walls that prevent players from getting across unless they’re in a flying vehicle.
@IshkahHD2 жыл бұрын
The algorithm has chosen you
@I_am_a_cat_2 жыл бұрын
It's surprisingly easy to get under the map with the wasp I found out. Thought I was flying into a cave... but no, they just leave the underside of the map completely open
@DoC3Y2 жыл бұрын
The northern island is the perfect forge map and I think because it's taking so long to release, forge better have a very big forge map bigger than reach, because it's the perfect opportunity to add a map like thst And and also they need to have NPC spawns like spawning in an army of banished and fighting through them with infinite health would be amazing
@Conquerjt2 жыл бұрын
Maybe the cave is where Lasky and the other Spartans are hold up? Future DLC?
@angelleonard50882 жыл бұрын
this leads me to believe there has to be campaign dlc. that northern island is too good to be left alone
@j-nazdgamer10442 жыл бұрын
I noticed the northern island in my first playthrough and assumed that the unplayable area is used to render cutscenes perhaps?
@ChangerofWays-Tzeentch2 жыл бұрын
This area is most likely going to be in the dlc
@dr._breens_beard2 жыл бұрын
@@ChangerofWays-Tzeentch this was my firat thought when i saw i couldnt get to it
@ModeSOLOgaming2 жыл бұрын
I did kinda feel like the game was too short. Like there was cut content. Especially with the large portion of the map that I wasn't able to explore. Maybe a DLC area. I dunno. Either way it's cool to see somebody explore it.
@arianecarter2 жыл бұрын
I have a feeling that the extra islands aren't cut content but instead are spaces that are planned to be used for the future expansions
@petergriffin60362 жыл бұрын
4:42 This island looks like it was made for the submarine which was unfortunately cut, it's model is still in the game though
@petergriffin60362 жыл бұрын
@@Nighterlev The submarine was featured in the initial announcement trailer as well, it was definitely cut during development. Whether or not they reused the model from Halo 5 as a placeholder or if it really is just a leftover cannot be determined unless the devs put out a statement