Hamilton | Based on a True Story

[@iammrbeat]

Fun fact. Both James Madison and Alexander Hamilton contributed to what would become Washington's Farewell Address.

[@shrihithtalapaneni9227]

I heard that Hamilton did, but I didn't know that Madison did. The more u know!

[@CrazyTiffany86]

Never knew this 👀

[@missdancefan]

In the original version of the song having the Farewell address, Miranda mentioned that Madison wrote the first draft genius.com/Lin-manuel-miranda-one-last-ride-lyrics kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJWXcmqBjNWJg68

[@SeanA099]

This is the second video I’ve seen you comment on today. The first was JJ’s

[@redjirachi1]

Burr stopped James Monroe and Alexander Hamilton from getting into a duel

[@iammrbeat]

One moral of the story. It's probably a bad idea to rely so heavily on one book for information.

[@RachaelMarieNewport]

You beat me in seeing the video, Mr Beat 😝 Great job, I agree with the general criticisms, and agree that it is still a great musical. Lin Manuel Miranda is amazingly talented. I also agree had he worked with different sources instead of the novel he mostly used, it might have saved it from some of the more inaccurate details, including the larger deep systemic issues you brought up. My newest favorite history KZbin dude brings up many of these points in his Hamilton react videos of individual songs. His channel is Social Stud.

[@iammrbeat]

@@RachaelMarieNewport I checked out Social Stud and love his channel

[@vincenzorutigliano5435]

For accuracy yes, for storytelling not necessarily

[@legoworksstudios1]

Indeed. I remember when I wrote a report on WWI for my writing class. I had sources covering the lead-up to the conflict, the conflict itself and the aftermath, as well as lessons learned (and reinforced 20 years after the fact) in the works cited page. Excluding that page, my paper was 10 pages long. Hamilton could've benefitted more if historians were present to clear up the misconceptions, but still I wouldn't call it all bad.

[@kzonedd7718]

I never did, even when the phone number seemed correct in phone-book number 1.

[@seandawson5899]

"Maybe they are rapping, so the inaccuracies come faster" My favorite quote to date from you

[@AtunSheiFilms]

What's that smell waftin' over from the North? Is it the aroma of HYYY-POCRISY???

[@TrainmasterGT]

Don’t make me set Sherman on you Rebs again...

[@TheThoughtAssassin]

CHECKMATE HAMILTONITES

[@MrBBnumber9]

How did you hack his account?

[@tallest4eva]

Dude! As a foreigner who moved to America and a student of history; ALL of American history is built on history! Ironically colonies that benefited from a war to oust their rivals from sections of the continent, while systematically co-opting and annihilating the indeginous people's of the land, then balk at being taxed to pay for all the gains they had been given! Idolizing a black man for shattering the myth of Aryan superiority in Nazi Germany, while that black man had more rights and freedoms in 30s Berlin, than in the 30s US! Idolizing Historical people is juvenile and are always susceptible to reality checks because (newsflash) people are complex and fallible! Our ideals should stand despite history! However, false equivalency is still a thing! Just because the entire US (and the preceding colonies before it) was built on an immoral system like slavery, doesn't mean that the North wasn't on the more moral side of the American Civil War! Just like the US was on the moral side of WW2 against the Nazis despite still having Jim Crow laws at that time!

[@dezbiggs6363]

I can hear Johnny's voice so well lol

[@charliejohnson1937]

Girls When They Travel Back In Time: HI, I'm your granddaughter Boys When They Travel Back in Time: Gladiator games, so awesome! Someone pass the popcorn Historians When They Travel Back in Time: Eliza, slowly step away from the flame and hand me the letters. You too, Martha.

[@DellDuckfan313]

Good premise for a book. A time travelling historian goes to save and replace Jane Austen's letters, but gets caught in the burglary.

[@ethandole2218]

Historians are their own gender

[@kmaher1424]

Connie Willis has several novels about the time traveling Historians of Oxford. Early on, it was discovered that bringing objects from the past was impossible. Then, they realize that objects destroyed in the past could be rescued, if snatched in time.

[@douglasdea637]

I've always thought if I had a time machine I'd travel back to interview Sophocles, video record his shows, rescue his lost works, etc. Perhaps the greatest playwright in all of human history yet we know almost nothing about him and have perhaps 10% of his output. Such a huge loss.

[@Ennio444]

My wet dream for a "travel back in time" is unraveling the mystery of the Bronze Age Collapse and the Sea Peoples.

[@munromister777]

It's also funny, since they cut out a major immigrant from this story: Prussian general Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben. He actually moved to the US and became an American citizen after the war. Not to mention his actual impact on the American military.

[@anonymousanonymous7250]

Or the fact that he was (allegedly) gay

[@thomastakesatollforthedark2231]

@@anonymousanonymous7250 "aleggedly" is as useful a descriptor as " not"

[@priest0701]

I learned about General Von Stueben while in JROTC, and again while in basic training, never did care if he was fat or not, just cared about getting the D&C correct.

[@TheFanoren]

They also left out Pulaski, a polish officer who died in the war. He founded the american cavalry and saved the continental army on at least one occasion

[@koalasandwich567]

If I recall Lin Manuel Miranda stated that he wanted to put him in somewhere, but he couldn't make it work.

[@johnpoole3871]

Does this mean we are eventually going to get a John Adams miniseries Based on a True Story?

[@BradyPostma]

He's made it clear that he doesn't do miniseries. It's just too much work.

[@theshenpartei]

@@BradyPostma he did Chernobyl on HBO and that was a mini series

[@BradyPostma]

Well, yeah, but 1) that was a special case of very convincing outright deception about the realities of the history, and 2) he didn't go into as much detail as with films. Also, didn't he include a disclaimer in that video not to expect that to be a regular occurrence? Personally, I'd love to see him cover the John Adams miniseries and the miniseries Gunpowder (about Guy Fawkes' plot). But I don't expect it will ever happen.

[@johnpoole3871]

@@BradyPostma Really? Aww man. Well I guess I will always have his comments on Hamilton that relate to it.

[@Andshrew94]

I personally love the musical and it got me more interested in early American history which I only knew the basics of before. The main thing is never get all information from one source and examine if the sources are meant to teach, persuade, or entertain. I think it's a good starting point, but don't take it as gospel.

[@DarthFlauschi]

The same happened to me,and i am not even from America,...our Basis was: Columbus discovered it, they killed sone natives, pushed tea in water and by that gained independence, had slaves, had no more slaves, had segregation. Saved the world twice(ww1 and ww2) and are the super power of cold war...oh and the marshal plan saved us. End of us history for us germans

[@douglasdea637]

@@DarthFlauschi Ugh. That's like having a prehuman skeleton totaling a dozen or so bones and teeth.

[@wordforger]

Exactly, not 100% accurate by any means, but it gets at the core of what makes history so much more rich and interesting than you generally get from your watered down history classes in school.

[@BillyOfOrange]

TLDR Lafayette’s immigration status is a complicated no, rather than a simple no. Hi cypher, I want to comment on the question of Lafayette’s immigration status and explain where some of that misconception comes from. I have two B.A.s one in History and the other in screenwriting from Chapman university. Lafayette’s citizenship status was the subject of my undergraduate thesis, where I used it as a lens to analyze American concepts of citizenship for white men prior to the Dread Scott Case. For my sources I relied on the letters of Washington, Lafayette, his wife Adrienne, the diplomatic papers of Ambassadors Jefferson, Mourris, and Monroe, and revered to the biographies by Gottschalk and Spaulding (who covered Lafayette’s prison stay). Let’s get to that question. Ok Was Lafayette an immigrant? No, almost certainly not, but he very much wanted to be in the 1790s. But the misconception comes from his largely ambiguous citizenship status. In 1784, the Maryland General Assembly conferred citizenship to Lafayette in recognition for his service I the American Revolution. If you interpret the definition of immigrant to be anyone who had dual citizenship but not living in that country then Lafayette has an immigration case. But there’s several disputes on what that Maryland declaration actually meant. Under the Articles of confederation states largely had the right to confer citizenship to whomever, but that citizenship did not necessarily confer to being a citizen of the United States after the 1789 constitution. There were not many legal cases born out of that period. Lafayette was captured by the Austrian military in 1792 after he fled his post in the French military (he feared the French would arrest him and try him for many things including the champ de mars massacre.) Lafayette appealed to the American government to seek his freedom. After France stripped him of his citizenship, Lafayette relied on Maryland’s declaration that he was one of their citizens, and therefore he could not be held as a POW from a country that was not at war with Austria. Austria was not convinced, and the most the American government intervened was to facilitate the transfer of his wife and daughter from a French prison to Lafayette’s Austrian prison Olmutz. Lafayette made his claim at a time when many French veterans of the revolution made dubious American citizenship claims. James Monroe, the American Ambasador at the time, got in trouble for allegedly disseminating American passports to French citizens to escape. Lafayette has a serious claim to citizenship for a French man, but America never claimed him. In 1797 Lafayette was released due to Napoleons victory over Austria. Lafayette immediately sought to immigrate to America, but his wife was too ill for a journey. When she recovered Lafayette spent a year petitioning Washington (though it was The Adams admin) for passage. But by that time the French relationship with America was so poor that Washington advised him that the journey would spark a diplomatic incident. Then Washington died. So there we have it. Lafayette tried very hard to emigrate, but it never stuck. For what it’s worth the American media very rarely (I found one instance in the library of Congress) revered to him as an American. The newspapers more often referred to him as a “Friend of America.” In 1824 Maryland conferred honorary citizenship to Lafayette, which would have been 1 unconstitutional at that point(but this is still prior to Dred Scott.) and 2 moot if he was already considered a citizen. If he was a citizen he definitely lost it after Dred Scott, but America finally made him an honorary citizen during the Bush Admin. So to your point cypher, you are correct, nobody other than the State of Maryland considered him to be an immigrant and even their case for it is shaky and was never acted upon.

[@aaroncohen2700]

Holy crap. I understand none of this. I'll be back.

[@BillyOfOrange]

Aaron Cohen lol take your time. The main person who would dispute Cypher about Lafayette’s citizenship status is Lafayette himself in the 1790s

[@warlordofbritannia]

If memory serves, Washington made a suggestion that Lafayette be extradited to America rather than France, only to have this be reconsidered because it would cause a diplomatic incident, as you say above.

[@BenVivas]

I read about Lafayette’s imprisonment in Chernow’s Washington book too. Although he didn’t mention Napoleon, he instead only mentions the diplomatic conflicts between France and the US during the Washington Administration following the Jay Treaty. The book also followed how he went from prison to prison from Prussia to Austria for 5 years until he was freed. Ultimately, he ended up flat broke, wandering In countries like Hamburg, Holstein and Holland with his family. But my book is considered “Founder’s Chic” tho so I don’t know maybe it’s not true. Maybe I wasted money for nothing. I should take another hobby since historians bicker too. >.>

[@BillyOfOrange]

Ben Vivas I don’t think any biography is a waste necessarily so long as it’s a springboard to more academic or at least public biographies, as opposed to Chernow pop. For example, I started my journey with Lafayette with the Harlow Giles Unger biography, which is a lot more pop and finds it’s trappings in founders chic. It got me interested in his life enough to make him the subject of my thesis. If I hadn’t read that pop book, I likely wouldn’t have pursued further research. When it came time to research him seriously I looked at Lloyd Kramer’s historiography (a historian who focuses on post French Revolution Lafayette with Emphasis on the polish wars for rebellion), and I got a lay of the land for what gaps on Lafayette were still to fill. I found that there was only a single book that delved significantly into his prison stay (Spaulding’s happened to be at my school library luckily). And Then I noticed that Spaulding was comprehensive on the stay but did not cover much of the responses of American diplomats or address Lafayette’s citizenship claims in full detail, and I knew where I could contribute something to the understanding there. On The subject of Napoleon, he was the general in charge of the Directory’s military, and it was his defeat of Austria that lead to the treaty of Campoformido, which had a provision for his release.

[@OurKindofEntertainment]

Hamilton reminded me of Disney's Hercules: both are popular projects via Disney, both have a lot of inaccuracies when it came to history (or mythology when it comes to Hercules), BUT the curiosity about fact vs. fiction is what inspired people to do their own homework to learn the truth. Honestly, I remember finding out as a kid that the story of Hercules was HIGHLY inaccurate in the Disney version. That sparked my interest in Greek mythology because I decided to read up on it. The same can be said about Hamilton because how many people were REALLY interested in studying U.S. history until it came out in hip hop/rap form? *Yes, I know Hamilton was a VERY successful Broadway project, but A LOT of people online have said they wished they got into it during its original run prior to it coming to Disney+

[@donalny]

Man, wait until you see what those fairy tales Disney rewrote were really like.

[@OurKindofEntertainment]

@@donalny oh you mean like the "real" Frozen, Tangled or basically ANY Grimm Fairy Tale? There are several channels on KZbin that breakdown the REAL stories and they are dark as hell!

[@donalny]

@@OurKindofEntertainment ya, they get pretty intense. Not sure how kids were supposed to fall asleep to those things.

[@OurKindofEntertainment]

@@donalny LOL your guess is as good as mine

[@CrusaderDom3]

Yea, well, you're first clue should have been, no matter what Hercules was/wasn't, he wan't a cartoon.

[@donalny]

I keep forgetting how young most of the Founders were. It really makes sense they acted like a bunch of high school Mean Girls with lots of booze and no adult supervision. One of my favorite stories of political history is when Adams and Jefferson hired newspaper editors to trash each other and Jefferson's guy called Adams a hermaphrodite.

[@TheAlexSchmidt]

He didn't actually call Adams a hermaphrodite; what the pro-Jefferson writer Callender (who as far as we know wasn't told by Jefferson to do so) actually said was that Adams had "hermaphroditical character;" i.e. he had an erratic temperament that wasn't manly or womanly. It would probably be equivalent to him being called bipolar or wishy-washy today.

[@warlordofbritannia]

Broke: Dueling People Joke: Dueling Banjos Woke: DUELIN’ TIMELINES

[@nickrustyson8124]

What did you say about Dueling Banjos partner?

[@megamoze]

Very disappointed to learn that the Hamilton vs Jefferson rap battle didn't actually happen.

[@CivilWarWeekByWeek]

Hamilton, huh didn't hear about this musical must have not been talked about much.

[@simon.templar9998]

🤨

[@BradyPostma]

Lies! Take my thumbs up, you liar!

[@6thwilbury2331]

ICWUDT

[@GrainneMhaol]

To quote Lindsey Ellis, the founding fathers were not immigrants, they were colonisers.

[@TheSlasherJunkie]

I’ve gotten into arguments with family over this point. He “immigrated” from one British colony to another. That’s like moving from Nebraska to Illinois and calling it immigration- HE NEVER LEFT THE FUCKING EMPIRE! And more importantly, his dad (legally) never gave up his Scottish citizenship, The only thing that changed was his address.

[@johnpoole3871]

@@TheSlasherJunkie Well Miranda's family moved from PR to New York so I guess they NEVER LEFT THE FUCKING EMPIRE so is Miranda just a big damn liar for presenting himself as a voice for immigrants? And can you really be coloniser if you are moving to a community that had been established over 100 years before?

[@donalny]

@@johnpoole3871 I mean if you are still kicking people out of their omes to declare it as part of your "new country"? Ya.

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

Hail King George, the true best character, you know I'm right!

[@alexhousakos]

A character to surpass Metal Gear

[@Olivesandeggs]

Aaron Burr is the best character

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

@@Olivesandeggs I will duel you over such accusations!

[@King_George_VI]

Why thank y-wait... different King George. My apologies.

[@warlordofbritannia]

@@alexhousakos George III is the Solidus Snake of real history

[@naciremasti]

I actually prefer your longer videos over your shorter ones. They're better than documentaries most of the time. Keep on fighting the good fight, Sir.

[@whm_w8833]

The more I learned about founding fathers, the more surprised that America had even existed at all.

[@EmeraldLavigne]

Fun fact: america is the only form of this kind of constitutional federal democratic republic left. They all invariably collapse into despotism in short order. The strong Presidency is absolutely dangerous and needs to be abolished. I.e., I am surprised America still exists.

[@legoworksstudios1]

@@EmeraldLavigne there were a lot of things for the founding fathers to consider and put in place during the drafting of the constitution, though notable areas were left to interpretation and it's led to very troubling events in American history. The Constitution is far from a diamond perfect document, but it is an important one. Honestly, as chaotic as some moments have been, it could've been markedly worse. The real surprise is that most events in American history have large gaps in between them. Imagine the whiplash if it was wall-to-wall commonplace. That's one wealthy group of chiropractors, I tell you what!

[@neilpemberton5523]

@@EmeraldLavigne Could you please inform me which kind of constitutional federal democratic republic is Germany, and why apparently it is in some kind of different category to the United States? And why abolishing the presidency in its current form is more desirable than the media going back to actually informing the public rather than just entertaining them? Do you not see that a media which did its job would have meant that the countless years King Donald the First wished to reign would have never been a possibly, because he would never have been elected in the first place? Do you not see that the separation of powers in the US system of government is pretty solid, if only it is allowed to operate as it is supposed to?

[@petitnicollas]

@@neilpemberton5523 I think he is against the presidential system. But you're right, Germany is a constitutional federal democracy and other countries could also be mentioned. I'm assuming that he supports the parliamentary system and got confused with the terms.

[@neilpemberton5523]

@@petitnicollas I would suggest the most obvious reform would be splitting the presidency into two offices to divide its current powers if that is indeed what is required. In Germany and France the Chancellor / Prime Minister is head of government and the President is head of state. I'm not sure that going back to the old Jeffersonian states rights system is an answer. Allowing secession as a lot of people are talking about just leads to the 1860 problem again, i e after a particular election loss the losers are so sore they want to quit. I think the real answer is to grow up as citizens and address the issues without putting on blue liberal hats and red conservatives hats. Surely the best presidents wear invisible purple hats.

[@braxtonfriday8713]

I think in the play when Washington said that he lead his men into a massacre, he's referring to the battle of Fort Necessity where he was forced to surrender to a force of French and native troops. That's what I gathered from that line.

[@tomservo5007]

can't wait for the MLK jr musical, starring Daniel Day-Lewis, coming out in 2022

[@matttheradartechnician4308]

Will he play Lincoln 😳

[@donalny]

Somehow there will be a number about MLK praising capitalism.

[@freedomm]

If the music will country/bluegrass with a touch of zydeco, why not?

[@nickrustyson8124]

@@freedomm Actually that would wor in a way

[@natureman494]

I knew there was a reason why John adams wasn’t even a character and he was shit talked the entire musical.

[@berryberrykixx]

It was originally planned for Adams to make a cameo and they also had a song about his administration. To cut time, they removed that part, but they kept all of the "in jokes" in the musical ("Everybody knows John Adams doesn't have a real job anyway.")

[@krombopulos_michael]

There just wasn't really any time for him. If they were going to put him in, he'd have to really be in it A LOT, and the play is already pushing 3 hours with many characters to keep track of.

[@obsidianpizza]

Going through all the inaccuracies in the musical Hamilton is exactly what I have wanted to see. Thank you so much for this. And even when you know so much of it is inaccurate, I still think it's just incredible and an excellently crafted piece of art.

[@BenVivas]

This is possibly your most savage review yet. 😂 Don’t stop tho. This roast is hilarious.

[@donalny]

You should see his review of Bugsy

[@BenVivas]

@@donalny 😂

[@TimpanistMoth_AyKayEll]

As a non-American fan of the show who had barely heard of Alexander Hamilton before the musical (he came up in economic editorials sometimes, so I was aware he had something to do with creating the banking system, and maybe that he was on some bill or other, I'd probably read about the duel at some point but forgot about it), I had absorbed nearly all of your lightning round inaccuracies through engagement with the fandom, including by reading lengthy works of fan fiction (yes, really). My experience has been that Hamilton fans LOVE to discuss all this stuff... but maybe that just reflects my own media and internet habits. And of course this video would have been very unlikely to come up in my KZbin recommendations unless I'd become interested in Hamilton specifically and the FFs in general because of the musical. I will continue to enjoy the musical 'Hamilton' much as I enjoy Inglorious Basterds and Django Unchained. And interesting critiques of those works of art!

[@baguettegott3409]

It's true, you do learn a lot of stuff through fanfiction, as stupid as is sounds. For Hamilton I almost exclusively read modern AUs (don't care for historical figures and powdered wigs), and I still picked up a lot of details. Sometimes I even learn about some historical event, like Washington apparently once going on a fishing trip with Hamilton and Jefferson, and I'm like "Oh dang I thought the fanfic made that up, no idea that really happened... the orgy probably didn't, but still, interesting..."

[@charliejohnson1937]

Every time you call this musical a play, a Newsie dies.

[@gotofalograce9926]

he called it movie too

[@williamsapong81]

But it is a play, isn’t it? A musical is just a big play with the actors singing.

[@gotofalograce9926]

@@williamsapong81 how dare you insult the sacrilegious Musical Theater

[@donalny]

Since everything is sung, isn't it technically opera?

[@gotofalograce9926]

@@donalny Nope

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

It's kinda sad how much better 1776 was when that came out nearly 50 years ago. Still, impressive on 1776's part.

[@AngelunaFortuna]

As a 1st gen Puerto Rican born on the mainland, this musical helped me connect with American history is a way I hadn’t before. I always saw it was “their” history, not mine. Thank you fir not trashing it while still outlining the historical inaccuracies. I knew while watching that it was probably NOT accurate but was too engrossed in my own representation as an American to care. Thank you 🙏

[@alanimals-1125]

Was Benjamin Franklin more of an abolitionist than Hamilton? I know he owned two house slaves and later became the president of the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting Abolition of Slavery, did he do that because he genuinely believed slavery was wrong or just to vindicate him from his past as a slave owner?

[@mariomouse8265]

Franklin freed his slaves later in life as well. He was an abolitionist by the end - he just couldn’t get anything done because of Washington and Jefferson’s charisma; and because of his age

[@Artur_M.]

The biggest flaw of the musical is obviously that, while they could put Lafayette in New York in 1776, they didn't put Kościuszko anywhere, even in mentioning. I'm kidding of course, but only a little. ; )

[@thomastakesatollforthedark2231]

People forget Poland exists a lot

[@kmaher1424]

In the interest of accuracy, young Hamilton actually went to work for Beekman and Cruger, New York merchants. Not his mother's ex husband. He moved in with the Thomas Stevens family. And befriended Edward Stevens, a year older. Who also moved to New York in adulthood. They were noted to have a strong physical resemblance. In New York, Hamilton started a militia group with some of his "scholarship" money. They stole British cannon and became an artillery group. The King sang "when you're gone I'll go mad." It was foreshadowing. Not a reference to his current condition. I liked Chernow's book but have read others on Hamilton.

[@jasonpeacock9735]

And that artillery unit he founded is still in service.

[@kmaher1424]

@@jasonpeacock9735 Yes, Hamilton's Own.

[@charliejohnson1937]

"The thought of grandchildren makes me go 'bur'" ~ Johnathan Edwards

[@wordforger]

Heh. I say that "Burn" is the song that makes historians cry for the exact reason of all those primary sources lost. But yes, I absolutely love how they incorporated historiography into the play here and there. My favorite songs include it in spades. So many people out there hold the belief that history doesn't change or that history is written by the 'victors.' While the latter is true if you widen the scope of what you consider a 'victor,' the former has never once been true in all of human history. We will always be finding and losing primary sources, then reinterpreting that information through the current lens of the present.

[@Ladscastlads]

I love the fact you use turn washington's spies clips in this video. It's such an underrated series.

[@arwyss]

22 - I believe the landslide they are referring to is the 36th ballot in Congress, where after being deadlocked for the first 35 ballots, Jefferson accumulated 10 votes to Burr’s 4.

[@troyp467]

Before I even start watching I just want to say I was looking for this video a few weeks ago after watching the musical, so glad you made it!

[@codylee729]

I am really enjoying the biographies you lament, and perhaps it may be helpful for folks to hear your further critiques of McCollugh's John Adams or Washington by Chernow.

[@theshenpartei]

Or the hbo adaption Mccollugh’s John adams

[@henryytb]

I simply love Hamilton, but as any reasonable person I did not expect for it to be historically accurate. In fact when I did some research it surprised me that it had that much actual history in it.

[@Albukhshi]

@ 3:32 For those wondering what the quarrel was between Washington and Hamilton: apparently, Washington wanted to speak to Hamilton. Hamilton, who was apparently a bit overworked, said he'd tend to him. However, he ended up running into Lafayette on his way and spent too much time chatting with him. He found Washington fuming, and was told he was 10 minutes late, and that this is disrespectful behavior for an aide. Hamilton replied that he hadn't realized that, and that Washington's remark induced him to quit. Washington told him if that was what he wanted, he wouldn't stop him. Hamilton stormed off. Lafayette talked to Washington about this (feeling a bit guilty he contributed to this--clearly a decent fellow, but not his fault), and Washington agreed to try and smooth things over. Hamilton, however, wouldn't take it. That's the quarrel. Yes, it's stupid. He could have simply apologized for what was clearly a mistake: he fucked up, and Washington was just doing his job. Having said that, Washington probably shouldn't have replied to Hamilton's offer that way.

[@alexscriabin]

2:07 were the "Islanders' sins" slavery itself (that was my first thought, but then who has the wealth and the pull to get him educated in the Caribbean but Caribbean slaveowners)? or absentee landlords / bigotry of European-born white people against American-born white people / bigotry of white slaveowners against mixed-race slave owners? or was it something specific like a mismanaged harvest or being too nice to slaves or something else random? (can't think of what those sins would have to be.)

[@BigHenFor]

In trying to drive an agenda about immigration, the musical informs us more about the present than the past. Slavery in the Caribbean was as bad as it was in North America. Hamilton was a wannabe elite, and he succeeded in his ambition by owning and managing slaves. As a match the play was a good match, struck against the Culture Wars, and igniting a fire under interest in the founding fathers but, it cannot be the only source of facts. Primary sources take precedence whereas when we can find them and interpret them correctly.

[@Luchabul]

Me, someone who enjoys the musical: well, this is interesting

[@afonsogomes4647]

45 minutes. Oh boy, this is going to be good!

[@NinjaAgnostic]

Cypher: 45 minutes, how horrible Us: 45 minutes?!?! What god hath deemed us to be so deserving?

[@coleyblossoms1051]

For those looking for great entertainment and some interesting history along the way, Hamilton is totally the way to go, but the one that take the cake for historical accuracy is 1776. I love Hamilton, but historical accuracy just isn't its forte.

[@alanimals-1125]

Hamilton is just modern Julius Caesar, tells the story of a historical figure as a young and ambitious man, whose cunning military prowess has him rise above the ranks quickly, the protagonist continues to have sky high ambitions, he has an affair, and then said protagonists’ prideful actions lead to his downfall at the hands of his closest friend

[@rayyanma1608]

Oh boy. It's been a long time coming.

[@fsdfgasgfisd]

I never do understand the hype around George Washington. He was not all that.

[@aznmochibunny]

Before going into Hamilton, I knew before hand it wasn't going to be accurate. Our school textbooks aren't accurate, and Hamilton is a form of entertainment, so obviously, it's not going to be even halfway as accurate. That being said, when I finished Hamilton, the show itself gave me the impression that Alexander Hamilton was a greedy POS, nothing more, nothing less.

[@aznmochibunny]

@@shelbystevens5621 LMM himself said that he didn't write Hamilton to glorify Alex nor the founding fathers. The show is supposed to make them human - they had a lot of flaws and made mistakes. As historical figures that lived centuries ago, we often can't relate to these people, but the characters in Hamilton felt a little relatable. In that sense, Lin did his job.

[@heretic-668]

I'm not sure I'd define Hamilton as greedy, but he sure as hell was both arrogant and conniving...er, "excessively fond of intrigue". He had an ideology beyond his own self-interest, for sure, but it was sectarian, unempathic, and definitely doesn't age all that well historically. I think what it is possible to do, though, is to give him credit for being a tireless advocate for centralization and a more unitary state; without Hamilton, it's entirely possible the U.S. would have wound up much more of a confederation than happened in practice.

[@mylesjude233]

Yes, can't wait to see your take on this musical

[@NeillGuitars]

I don't know if you've read into preceding's of the AHA because you brought up the cultural shift in historiography in the 1980s, but there was a former president of the AHA who gave a speech complaining about the "overly-emotional nature" of historians who got their degrees following passing the GI bill.

[@yoyovoy683]

I can understand Miranda tho, he was moved by the book about Hamilton so much he wanted to write an album about it. And he did included on his music the subjective nature of history.

[@brianmagee6595]

Finally I'm in the room were it happens.

[@hbabambroadz1536]

PLEASE do Turn: Washington’s Spies

[@ClericOfPholtus]

Dont know why this hasn't crossed my mind before but wow A what if on the timeline where the US and France worked together during the revolution. Like would just be to put down the Revolution or would it be to help them against the declarations of war from the rest of Europe during it? They already handled themselves relatively well during the Napoleonics (yeah, whole lot of asterisks there I know)

[@dwc1964]

10:48 - "... and a two-party system" - this is true only if he was instrumental in establishing single-member legislative districts elected by first-past-the-post - because _that_ is what generates a duopoly, mathematically, regardless anyone's intentions. Similarly, multi-seat legislative districts (or at-large) elected by proportional representation generate a number of parties related to the percentage of the vote required to win a seat. The fact that so few people understand _why_ we have a "two-party system" is why _nobody_ realizes that, mathematically, _we do not currently have one_ - what we have instead is a mosaic of one-party districts in which _there is no _*_second_*_ party_ and all that's missing is an organization with the ability to fill that gap. Say, the kind of organization capable of making Bernie Sanders and "the Squad" happen. But to do all that under their own banner and on their own platform.

[@danyf.1442]

Sooooo...you are telling me that Marquis De LaFayette never actually jumped on a table and rap Guns and Ships??? 😭😭😭

[@bananadane]

I love the background track around 12:00 fits perfectly, keep it up!

[@PobortzaPl]

Dear Cynical Historian Please, never Ever Use the phrase "Founding fathers threesome" spoken with THAT voice.

[@karakaspar1791]

I LOVE Hamilton. It is the ONLY reason I developed an interest in history and the only reason I’m here binge watching your videos lol I get that it feels a little icky to address slavers as anything other than despicable but I can see why these things weren’t included entirely. The story isn’t meant to be about slavery and racism, that’s an important story but not the story of Hamilton. Lin is deeply woven into the fabric of every word in this play. You can hear his own personal voice in so many places. The style of hip hop, the inclusion of pro-immigration language, and the decision to hire an entire cast of only racial minorities were an elegant and gentle way to acknowledge the elephant in the room. Lin was inspired by the battle of wits and the barbarism of the time. None of the founding fathers in his depiction were without flaws. If he had focused too much on accuracy, the story would have been clunky and boring at times. I think he told this story with people like us in mind. People who know that we have a horrible, messy history and just want to watch a story that makes us feel pride for our country in the present moment that we’re watching it. We know the founding fathers sucked but these incredible people of color in front of us telling us their crazy story makes me emotional to even think about. I learned a lot of valuable history lessons despite the creative liberties taken. The musical is truly an amazing work of art. I really hope that people don’t try to vilify it.

[@wesleyhunt7599]

I would love to see you look at Joyeux Noel as a Christmas special. Maybe not this year but some year.

[@PremierCCGuyMMXVI]

I love the musical but unfortunate it’s not completely historically accurate but they did pretty good in some areas as you mentioned.

[@DopeSauceBenevolence]

"Manumissionist" as far as I'm aware meant buying slaves so you could set them free. So, one would expect a bill of sale for this type of abolitionist, of course one would. If we only have a bill of sale, then we have no proof either way.

[@lacithedog5506]

The musical lost me early on when they said the War for Independence was about freeing the slaves (or something vaguely along those lines). BTW, Adams has a cameo late in the play, but that is pretty much next to nothing. Yes, I bought Historians on Hamilton, but too many people want to take the play as fact. I would like people to examine this topic, but most people won't IMO.

[@the4tierbridge]

Where does Adams show up?

[@HistoryandHeadlines]

For some reason or other, this musical does not seem interesting. To each his own and all, but I haven't had any motivation to see it. I had a colleague who kept asking me if I saw it yet nearly every time we ran into each other... I guess with musicals, there may be a song or so from some of them that I like, but otherwise they just feel "off" or something. For this subject matter, I'd prefer a straight up documentary or more accurate dramatization. Anyway, what's all of your takes on musicals "based" on history? Do you have a favorite? Finally, perhaps most importantly, what did you think of the cinematic adaptation of Cats? 🐱

[@M-Soares]

As someone who isn't really into musicals and watched it out of sheer curiosity for why people are so hyped about it, I enjoyed it. If you completely ignore the inaccuracies (as I did because I don't know much about early American history), the way they tell Hamilton´s life is very engaging, clearly they want him to be seen as a good guy (I guess that's why they whitewashed much of his past), but the pacing and the excellent musical performances really do make you care for the character, and that's how you have to see Hamilton as, a character, if you imagine him as the real person it really doesn't work. That aside, it's pretty fun, some songs are absolutely great, and the acting is pretty great too, but its lack of historical accuracy is undeniable. Basically, watch it as a work of fiction, not based on but inspired by the Hamilton's life.

[@kmaher1424]

Watch it. Watch 1776, too.

[@baguettegott3409]

It does kind of work like that. Everybody hearing about the concept goes "What? Ew. No. Not for me, please". For various reasons. I have yet to meet somebody who was hooked right from hearing about it. I also have yet to meet somebody who gave it a shot and ended up still disliking it afterwards though, so... make of that what you will.

[@HistoryandHeadlines]

@@baguettegott3409 I'm actually finding with KZbin, Netflix, HBO Max, Hulu, Disney+, and Amazon Prime, that there is an overwhelming amount of interesting content out there where it's actually becoming difficult at times deciding what to actually watch. There's probably many lifetimes of things I would enjoy that I'll never have time for.

[@baguettegott3409]

​@@HistoryandHeadlines That is very true. I'm the kind of person who watches the same movies over and over again, who reads Lord of the Rings again every single year and barely ever gives a new thing a chance. So I know I'm missing out on a lot, and it doesn't bother me much. The reason I watched Hamilton was one of my closest friends really loving it, and me wanting to know more of the same music she knows so we can sing together more often. But I totally get why you don't have the time (or motivation) to follow the recommendations of random strangers, or even colleagues.

[@simon.templar9998]

I just liked the music lol!

[@DDendrite2]

After watching PhilosophyTube's video on Amy Coney Barrett I just had to watch this as well.

[@masonsong5304]

The Cynical Historian would be great at cinema sins.

[@_Ocariao]

have a great 2021, Mr. Cynical.

[@theshenpartei]

Happy new year to him to him

[@nickrustyson8124]

45 minutes oh boy this is going to be a good one

[@megusta5493]

The Virgin Hamilton vs The Chad 1776.

[@mkvenner2]

Can you review turn

[@Aeyekay0]

Wow, that was a really good deep dive

[@Seek1878]

Only 85 views so far, first time I've been this early to one of your vids!

[@mjxsh3lm]

Thank you Cypher for this wonderful video!

[@jordanhurst6555]

You should do a video on 'The Report' with Adam Driver

[@wesh8599]

This is a very good video

[@whm_w8833]

Hamilton is an actual elitist and Burr created Tammany Hall. So, what’s your opinion on Andrew Jackson?

[@EmeraldLavigne]

Trump before Trump.

[@whm_w8833]

@@EmeraldLavigne a man who expanded democracy for the working men, fought for federalism while screwing all other minorities, created the spoil system and killed the central bank. That man is so bad but he is like the overcorrection to Hamilton’s elitism.

[@shrihithtalapaneni9227]

I'm no Trump supporter, but I do think it would be fair to point out that he is talking about ILLEGAL immigrants.

[@kmaher1424]

Trump's minions (Stephen Miller, especially) want to make immigration harder for non white, non Christian immigrants. No fan?

[@jaegerbomb269]

How is AMC's American Spies?

[@theshenpartei]

Wasn’t that the Americans?

[@Putseller100]

To mess with me some people bought me a Hamilton calendar knowing full well I do not like Hamilton nor his politics. I felt bad throwing something away people spent money on.

[@johnboyle9082]

Hold up wasn’t Nevis a Danish holding when Hamilton was there? And wouldn’t that make him a Danish subject?

[@wassupwo]

I'm appreciating this before the criticism wave comes in.

[@wassupwo]

And paradoxically, I like the Hamilton soundtrack a looot!

[@alankohn6709]

Ah hysterical accuracy gotta love it.

[@Flutterwhat]

sing worf sing~!

[@201950201950]

Thank goodness that you had to lower the volume. Hamilton reminds me of why I hate musicals.

[@lois7956]

*Hears you mention Bloody Bloody and freaks out* But okay, I understand where you were coming from now. Whilst I will still fight anyone who says that What Did I Miss isn't a thigh slapper, I can appreciate your stance on founder chic. One day I'll go back and give 1776 another chance, I promise...some day

[@TheAceOfIn5anity]

I'm sorry but I'm distracted by that intro. What's the name of it

[@CynicalHistorian]

I'm guessing you're the one who just @'d me on Twitter. Yeah that's Epidemic Sound. I wouldn't be able to tell you the specific song

[@TheAceOfIn5anity]

@@CynicalHistorian yeah that was me 😅 and damn. Ok. I'll scrounge around and see if I can find it.

[@MrAnthonyramon]

Did you like it though as a musical

[@kmaher1424]

I think he did...

[@cherryrue89]

That play always confused me and now I know why. But I loved the play. Interesting

[@jeffreywillstewart]

I feel they should have framed it as Jefferson's slaves atMonticello , partying while their master is in Pa. and Mocking their masters hypocracy.

[@brandonwilliams2188]

Hamilton is hella inaccurate, but still a good play. Love your video.

[@DarthFlauschi]

Oh how i was waiting for this video

[@louishindle6620]

I think the play is a better historical resource for understanding the culture of the Obama period than for understanding the actual story of Hamilton and his contemporaries. The way things are interpreted are a part of the history.

[@tastycheesebooger]

I see you bought Mr. Beat's new book

[@all9472]

I don't even care anymore my wow just wow there so good they must of worked hard to get that good at dancing singing and just wow

[@freedomm]

Fact: Aaron Burr wasn't a bad guy and a champion for women's rights.

[@matttheradartechnician4308]

Yoo Hamilton is based

[@deathminder9206]

Its funny that several of the book covers you show are ones I like. I read Chernow and i still thought Hamilton was an elitist. Maybe it is because like you I know most of them were. I like David McCullogh's writings.

[@birbseesall1529]

How dare you do this to my child

[@MauroEnfermoDeLepra]

Sorry Cypher that founding father's rule 34 is on it's way

[@CynicalHistorian]

Why do I get the feeling you're on deviant art already, lol

[@TheThoughtAssassin]

I think it’s possible to hold two opinions: the music was great, but the history and message perhaps a bit muddier. I for the record dislike the overt casting decision to make the only white people in the show the villains. I dont know who they are trying to fool, and I don’t see how turning traditional racialism on its head gets us anywhere.

[@TimpanistMoth_AyKayEll]

The English and Loyalists (Seabury) are white. Hamilton's political opponents, his blackmailer, the man who killed his son, and the man who killed Hamilton himself are not. I thought the casting was interesting, because it kept making me go back and forth between temporarily accepting these portrayals and then constantly becoming re-aware of the irony. It's also not like it's a particularly new conceit, any more than genderbending or animals as allegory or stylized animation or Shakespeare set in modern times or whatever other 'characters who don't look realistic or as expected' versions are out there.

[@TheThoughtAssassin]

That's a fair assessment, I suppose, but I see it as part of a growing trend to just take white historical figures (off the top of my head the new Anne Boleyn) and just make them a racial minority for the sake of it. Here I grant that it's a tad different, since it's deliberately a statement on American today vs America back then. But America today isn't delegating whites to token, villainous minorities.

[@anonymousanonymous7250]

Anyone who knows me knows how much I fucking DESPISE this musical. So this video was a long time coming.

[@qsings8674]

Well apparently you’re anonymous so I wouldn’t know you lol