Hans and Magnus Update with GM Ben Finegold

[@Rockedott]

"I literally don't care" hahaha he never misses an opportunity, which I appreciate

[@potato4dawin1]

"The players were all really good. The players were like Magnus, and Fischer, and Steinitz, and Capablanca, and Morphy, and those were the weak players" bruh lmao 🤣🤣🤣

[@xocky8808]

I lost it right there 😂😂

[@queenbrynja]

Garry Chess and Ruy López were the strong players 😣

[@YoutubeAskedMeToChangeThis]

@@queenbrynja Ruy López was an actual person and chess player tho.

[@Sifter2K]

Pretty sure they also invited Mr. French, inventor of the French defense. Probably beat him up too.

[@ceoherohub2584]

@@KZbinAskedMeToChangeThis are you saying the inventor of chess isn’t real? What slander!

[@rawdaaljawhary4174]

Even GM Finegold's cadence is funny. "You were born crying... Trying to get teeth... You don't know nuthin." 😂

[@norbertremenyi5539]

I found that a little arrogant, to be honest

[@Khadeezy]

@@norbertremenyi5539 snowflake 😅

[@roycemorales3924]

"I'm not gonna cancel a guy because the other guy has a crying fit". exactly on point.

[@justincase5124]

Leftists do that all the time.....

[@maicolc7216]

@Joao Vaz I wish ben would address the real issue, Hans' cheating

[@ivicapavic3381]

99 out of a 100 other organizers won't think like that and will instead invite Magnus.

[@goroakechi8577]

He is a gm he can have games with 90 percent accuracy

[@Tom-vu1wr]

@@goroakechi8577 *90% engine correlation

[@kenmastersmaster]

"you were born not knowing shit" Expert analysis right here

[@bandedefous99]

Ahahahahah ! Ben's humor

[@paulvandervelden4087]

no so....shitting when born is one of two things you do know when born....sucking is the other.

[@clementd8430]

@@bandedefous99 haha I laughed so hard on that whole thing

[@rideon6140]

Actually, shit is the one thing we did know.

[@ecsciguy79]

I, too, am on team "Magnus should have handled this differently"

[@aaronmarchand999]

NO HE SHOULDN'T HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAGNUS IS PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe you would not only have that opinion, but actually say it publicly, people make me so angry, my head is literally one "straw" away from exploding, and IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT BECAUSE OF YOUR SELFISH OPINIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Hauser203]

How?

[@musical_lolu4811]

@@aaronmarchand999 stop polishing Magnus's lance.

[@briano9397]

@@Hauser203 he won't answer. It would require him to have an actual stance and be open to being wrong. He'd rather sit back and complain to take the alternative take like the rest of the edgelords on the internet

[@Philiopantheon82]

Tell us how? If you are a world chess champion and currently best chess player on the planet how should you handle the situation?

[@ibsagoalball]

"now some of you might not know this, because most of you don't know anything. It's not your fault" I love Ben

[@gump1005]

It's all in his new book "How to make enemies and influence friends".

[@r.mcdonnell8614]

Rapport was not allowed to enter America because customs said he was too handsome But also I love the analysis as always. The fact that you don't like Hans but can still be fair shows a lot of honor in your character. Not that it matters hearing that from some random guy like me...but there you go. Lol

[@ExtraCheeseProject]

Vastly underrated comment imho

[@sigmagamerchad4685]

@@ExtraCheeseProject rapport gayboi fan club INITIATE

[@ExtraCheeseProject]

@@sigmagamerchad4685 Initiate? You're kidding right?! I'm the FOUNDER!

[@lostone9700]

And they gave us a human troll doll as a replacement.

[@jaasonjones4419]

Sounds reasonable

[@frankjohnson123]

Magnus's claim that "Hans wasn't tense enough" during the game is fucking laughable. His ballriders have been saying he must have proof of foul play ever since Sinquefield, and his statement after all that time was basically that Hans is cringe and too stupid to beat him with the black pieces.

[@trucid2]

I mean, if you were sitting on vibrating beads, it would loosen you right up.

[@jumbo6498]

I actually think Magnus's "soft evidence" holds more weight than what's first thought. Magnus has played hundreds, if not thousands of OTB games against every top player. At that level, you get a serious feel for body language and where you're at in the game. He knew something was fishy and was brave enough to stick to his gut.

[@SavantGardeEX]

@@jumbo6498 Kasparov acted the same way towards 15-year-old Radjabov when Radja beat him OTB and broke his 6 year undefeated streak lmao. Your logic does not apply AT ALL.

[@jumbo6498]

@@SavantGardeEX You bringing up an entirely independent cheating case does not "apply" at all. If you've ever gotten experienced at anything you would know there's a meta-level feel for everything. Maybe Hans cheated, maybe he didn't, but body language as evidence is surely not discardable.

[@frankjohnson123]

@@jumbo6498 even if that were true, subjective evidence from a VERY biased party is worth nothing

[@PTdoubleOT]

This was exactly my thoughts when I read that he thought about dropping out prior. He already had it in his head that the guy was going to cheat. Confirmation bias.

[@Nozickfy]

“Hans wasn't tense enough” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@ABearOnYouTube]

Ben's takes age like fine gold... Love you Ben

[@kylezo]

Feels like the only sane voice in chess rn honestly also bonus points for "you were trying to get teeth"

[@mexicaninjafredfred]

Fr.

[@mohamadyassirhamid2089]

One of the reason of why I unsubscribed Hikaru's channel was due to how biased his assessment on Hans. I totally agreed with Finegold's view and opiniom which is super spot-on. Other super GMs just sore loser and saw threat from Hans. They dont want another Alirezza.

[@macleadg]

Firouzja had a meteoric rise even better than Niemann’s and Magnus responded by saying he ~ only ~ wanted to play him for the World Championship.

[@macleadg]

Will Magnus play Karjakin again?

[@harrellt1405]

You shoulda unsubbed from that snake a long time ago xD

[@johnj28]

I am not sure why, but I find Ben hilarious. I love his sarcasm and personality!

[@firstnamelastname7476]

he keeps it real and edgy.. imo he's kinda like the Bill Maher of chess... (and the zizek of chess by appearance)

[@grayson0916]

@@firstnamelastname7476 Bill Maher has been a hack for at least a decade lol don’t insult dear Finegold like that

[@Axiomatic75]

I used to not like him very much tbh but the more I watch him, the closer he grows to me.

[@filoriketi1881]

if you love any part of this guy you got issues, John🤪

[@alexeykaplin5979]

@@filoriketi1881 issues like what?

[@williamh694]

"Magnus is being a baby." I've been using the term "drama queen," but I think that we are on the same page.

[@StayCalmPlease]

Ben is the only person that I feel like I've been on the same page with through this entire thing.

[@andrewg2032]

Agreed

[@lyfehaxandtrix3481]

I will admit, it’s been weird to watch people like Hikaru and a few other select content-creating GMs immaturely laugh at Hans in this situation, and then watch a video like this. I’m gonna have to start watching Ben now, purely based on his content quality and maturity.

[@donshingondonvergonio2247]

Yep, imagine not having his take om this whole thing there would be a lot of confusion Im glad he uploaded when I was looking for someone other than Hikaru to talk about the issue.

[@AG-ld6rv]

Well, you might want to add a few more people to watch then, because basically only Hikaru and his faithful followers who he tricked with sensational "news reporting" based on tweets and videos and other forms of gossip have been so vocal about Hans definitely cheating. It all started when Hikaru seemingly forgot what a transposition is when he said that Magnus not playing that exact line makes Hans' description of the match highly fishy. Basically, every GM and super GM who has commented has said there is no strong evidence of cheating having happened at the Sinquefield Cup. I'd use this as a wake up call, know when someone is low enough to lie to people to take their money, and start watching other streamers even if they don't feel like they're as cool as Hikaru. After all, all that feeling is is the existence of a parasocial relationship.

[@007tryner1]

@@AG-ld6rv Hans has 10 games playing 100% engine moves over the board, but i guess he is just far better than any other chess player has ever been. And by far as well.

[@misterkefir]

Great analysis of this whole mess of a situation, Ben. I'm in the same camp. Appreciated.

[@YuGiOhDuelChannel]

DEAD ON! Thank you Ben, no one is holding Magnus accountable for this, he is causing insane division in the chess world, and the players cannot allow him to just delete a player from the tournament scene without evidence, just because he feels like Hans cheated....way to much power

[@IronFire116]

None of you people seem to understand the meaning of the word, "evidence." There is tons of evidence. You just don't find it compelling. Big difference from no evidence.

[@apoorvupadhyaya8459]

@@IronFire116 in strict terms if 5 GMs stood up and said that someone's cheating that's evidence too. Evidence includes statements but without anything concrete to back them up is definitely not going to convince anyone

[@YuGiOhDuelChannel]

@@IronFire116 None of the "evidence" reaches any level to convict the man of cheating in that game, you can have all the circumstantial evidence you want, you do not condemn a man on that. That is what "you people" don't seem to under when we say "without evidence"

[@Malt454]

But what other people do in reaction to what Magnus did is on them, not Magnus. Kasparov thought he was cheated in the second IBM tournament as well. I really don't believe that Magnus made the claim lightly or to simply cover for a loss - he knew that, eventually, someone WOULD come along and eclipse him anyway regardless. He did what he did and told people why. 100% of commentators could "conclude" that Magnus is full of shit, but it wouldn't matter to him. The fact that you can find 100 chess "experts" online with 250 different opinions is of no consequence either way.

[@IronFire116]

@@YuGiOhDuelChannel lol lol lol! Wow, hahaha. OBVIOUSLY there isn't enough evidence to get a conviction! We got a real genius here! 😂😂😂

[@DoronBarShay]

Saying that you are thinking that Hans has cheated OTB in the last three years and yet you think everyone should just accept his participation in top tournaments is insane... Sure you can think that Magnus mishandled the event but your take is ridiculous.

[@sebastiandierks7919]

I think you could driven home the point regarding the Miami tournament even better: In Miami, Hans was clearly not cheating, as he lost all his matches. However, he still won games against very strong opponents, including Magnus himself. He basically showed that he is capable of beating Magnus fairly there. Because why would he cheat in the first game he won against Magnus, or the selected other games he won, but not in a slightly larger amount to win at least a couple of matches? He won against Magnus fairly there, proving he's capable of that.

[@greenbean4422]

Bro you can cheat and purposefully lose your matches I think it would be 100% a good idea to start throwing if a literal homing missile was on your back for cheating allegations Using another tournament as proof of his innocence is fucking wild. You cheat once in your life? Youre a cheater. It doesn't matter if you play fair in 30 tournaments legitimately and then cheat in 1- you're a cheater This is the worst line of logic I've seen people use to prove Hans isn't guilty of something. That's like saying that because I saw OJ Simpson hug a woman that he's not capable of killing his wife LOL dude the fucking logic

[@kenm4390]

@@greenbean4422 this is such a dumb argument bro. You never cheated in a game as a kid?

[@szyren8793]

@@kenm4390 projection prob

[@MrMarlowe3488]

​@@greenbean4422 "cheating and purposely losing" is the dumbest idea ever, why would you risk being caught with an illegal device just to lose? you could literally just play the game at that point. The fact remains Hans is perfectly capable of beating magnus because he's the 50th highest ranked chess player on earth. He showed he was able to do so in multiple games against supergms where he probably wasn't cheating, and that frankly includes st. louis because he probably wasn't cheating in that game

[@greenbean4422]

@@MrMarlowe3488 Hans is not nearly as highly ranked as you think he is dude. Hans was the LOWEST ranked player at the cup that Magnus resigned at. Why would you purposefully lose? It's called "a shadow of a doubt" If you were cheating on a test would you seriously get all the fucking answers right? You're fucking insane. You clearly haven't thought about the actual process of cheating and getting away with it for a single second if you haven't figured out why someone would purposefully lose even if they were cheating or not. Please tell me, if you're going to steal from a Walmart, are you going to steal every fucking item on the shelves? Or are you going to lift a couple and then buy a few things to make yourself look like a legitimate customer? You have put ZERO THOUGHT into your assertions over how to get away from cheating if you think people cheat with the express purpose of winning every single game they play in. You're brainless.

[@countcampula]

>Be Magnus >Thinking of the poon back at the hotel >G-guys I gotta resign

[@ancientconnections9370]

I think we found the person who operates Han's anel bead vibrations.

[@Jafar_maher]

i think i found a magnus meat rider

[@pionosphere]

@@Jafar_maher Bruh, nobody talking about the beads is serious

[@dimorphos8916]

@@Jafar_maher fruit cup. First thing that came to your mind is another man's meat smh

[@Jafar_maher]

@@dimorphos8916 how can i not think of it when the original comment is about anal beads? and just because i commented something doesn't mean it's what came to my mind first

[@alquinn8576]

@@pionosphere ikr, anal beads? that's ridiculous! (it's a butt plug)

[@brianthedog2004]

I feel like I just watched 15min of a guy trying hard not to yell out - "I just don't like Magnus, okay?"

[@wl4dymir]

That last minute was incredible.

[@jaasonjones4419]

He dropped bars on bars

[@alekhinesgun9997]

That’s what she said

[@Peter-dk2ov]

Ben with the only sensible take ive heard so far

[@taipizzalord4463]

I've seen people claim that the ball is in Hans' court now because he needs to give permission to Magnus to speak openly and that if he doesn't it is because he has something to hide. This is beyond ridiculous. -If Magnus had any proof of OTB cheating, he would definitely not need any permission to bring it to an authoritative body such as FIDE, who already stated is willing to investigate once such initial proof is provided. -Not allowing someone to slander you, especially one whose words will be believed without checking by a lot of people, is in no manner an admission of guilt. The argument of "he shouldn't worry if he has nothing to hide" is based on old witch hunting practices. It is similar to saying that police should be able to raid people's homes and they should not worry if they have nothing to hide. It is perfectly fine to refuse to give anybody permission to publicly slander you. At this point Magnus is openly asking for permission to slander Hans. If he has any real proof, he wouldn't need permission from the guy he has proof on to present it to a regulating organization. No one just gets a blank cheque to say what they want surely.

[@Sarah-oj7bh]

Yes, that sentence about needing Hans' permission to speak was so very weird to me. Permission to say what exactly? It's not like they both share a secret that Magnus doesn't want to disclose without Hans' consent. Don't blame your silence and vagueness on the man that you're trying to cancel.

[@taipizzalord4463]

@@Sarah-oj7bh Its not like Fide needs 100% proof to start said investigation as an investigation is meant to find proof. Evidence can ALREADY be released if it is TRUE. What people do not get about this I don't know? Magnus needs absolutely ZERO permission from Hans to speak on truthful evidence. He also doesn't need any permission from Hans to take his evidence to FIDE, which he hasn't done.

[@andonir.6320]

Benjamins perspective is to me the one that makes the most sense

[@measlesplease1266]

A large percentage of the human race is made up of dickriders unfortunately. It's why bullying is so easy. You just need a bunch of people liking one guy more than the other.

[@rushiashtikar]

Unless...Hans confesses that he cheated..or some solid proof is found. Then we will look like fools..

[@oskarstenlund]

@@rushiashtikar even if that happens (spoiler: it wont), Magnus has still handled it in a terrible way.

[@MNishCT77]

Agreed.

[@merluzacongelada5361]

@@rushiashtikar How? He's not saying it's absolutely impossible for Hans to have cheated, just that there's currently no proof of him doing it against Magnus in the Sinquefield Cup so jumping to conclussions is dumb. If the witch hunters happen to be right in the end, that wouldn't magically turn them into reasonable people. It's not about Hans himself, just some common sense.

[@kentso8888]

Super GM's lost to a former online cheater "truth hurts" -Ben Finegold

[@Frank7489]

When Hans played Magnus he was simply drawing inspiration from deep inside himself

[@FreedomandRights4US]

Im looking forward to any kind of resolution of this event that occurred, mainly because of hearing the people so adamant on either side. It would be nice to see one of them be forced to move on necessarily but I do love the insight from actual high level grand masters and players

[@JonathanMandrake]

Yeah, I hope there is a clear resolution so that everybody reasonable can stop caring and the drama doesn't get as much clicks anymore

[@johnnydoe3603]

@@JonathanMandrake Till then it will be milked and it Incentivises further Insinuations without Evidence, let alone Proof. 😂

[@ostrol1590]

The argument "if Carlsen didn't lose, would he still leave?" is almost as good as "if Niemann lost, would he still be cheating?"

[@ligmamale4389]

Yeah it's the same exact thing

[@gmdwill]

It’s not the same thing since he’s saying that he only cared about Hans cheating because he did lose.

[@ostrol1590]

@@gmdwill fair, but would you care about chess cheating if you barely knew how a knight moves? People are moved by interest, even good causes are moved by interest and there is no such thing as a clean and pure political vincation, that's such a moralistic holier-than-thou attitude

[@DubberssMcgee]

@@ostrol1590 or the attitude of someone not wanting to destroy someone's career till there is actual evidence.

[@artsteLF]

Don't expect logical arguments from Hans uncle.

[@mstalcup]

All your points are exactly the way I feel. I believe Magnus handled this entire thing without a hint of class.

[@kingcarisma]

Karen and Ben organizing a super Gm tournament😆

[@howard5992]

Karen wants to take Hans up on his offer to play naked....

[@scythermantis]

Agreed; good takes. You'd make a good defense lawyer. The circumstances are important here.

[@m77mo65]

This video is so good that I watched it twice till now.

[@notyourdad]

What happened then? Why not three times?

[@andrewg2032]

Im on my second time watching this as I watch this

[@m77mo65]

@@notyourdad When I wrote the comment it was the second time.. now I lost counting.

[@wangdave5574]

Always repeat

[@culturekiller86]

I remember spending a good deal of my childhood “trying to get teeth”

[@Obiamajoyisrmd]

Gosh I wish I remembered those days.

[@bobbynygaardchrisitansen6874]

Maybe Carlsen was going after a rating of 2900 and a loss would destroy that goal leaving the tournament meant no rating loss.

[@AMultipolarWorldIsEmerging]

It is so refreshing and frankly calming to be able to come to a channel that consistently has the most nuanced yet broad take and makes me feel like I’m not taking crazy pills. All of this really needs to be said and heard by more fan boys in the chess community. People can’t fathom the idea that actually magnus’ behavior has been awful and all of this is kind of reducible to a rage quit. I really hope Hans comes out of this episode , plays phenomenal chess climbs the rankings and beats everyone. And now I really want to see Magnus lose the world championship , he’s shown how lousy his character is throughout this

[@Obiamajoyisrmd]

Agree

[@blindwhy]

Maybe the reason why Magnus withdrew is he wants to see Ben bitch about it all the time. But most likely not, because Ben is nothing to him, just like we are nothing to him.

[@wl4dymir]

The truth hurts.

[@electorofsaxony7646]

The answer is fries.

[@PaulThronson]

I've been watching the drama since St Louis. Magnus is competing for the biggest sore loser of chess champions - and he has some tough competition so I'm impressed with his commitment, he truly might be the GOAT when this is all said and done

[@MultiMarcd]

I love the way Magnus crushed Hans some days before while playing on a beach. You know one day we are on a beach, we play two games ... and it looks like you don't really understand what's happen on the board. But hey, suddenly couples of day later, you played like a Super GM without even seem to analysed positions and be concentrated. If chess speaks for itself then what about thoss 2 games on the beach ... when Hans just look like a 2300 ?

[@jarirepo1172]

@@MultiMarcd Hans won one of those games. Also it is not uncommon for Magnus to crush any opponent making them seem like weak.

[@fugelfrij8652]

Yosha's take on this case made it clear to me that Hans cheated way more than he admitted. Magnus probably developed his rightful suspicion just before the tournament and it got in his head during the game. So Magnus played very bad against Hans and got fairly beaten, he might have been distracted by this thought that Hans takes the piss on colleagues every now and then. And right there and then, Magnus went by his instincts! Magnus could have handled it better, a fair point Benjamin, but the GOAT is not a computer, and like his chess, I'd say he handled this case with a 70% accuracy! ;)

[@12jswilson]

That's where I'm at too as the most likely outcome. It seems very likely Hans has cheated over the board, but seems unlikely he did in the Sinquefield. His performance the rest of Sinquefield cup was more or less on par with his rating, slightly below. Either he still cheated and lost or drew the last 6 games. Scoring 2/6 against 2750s send about right and he lost to Fabi and Nepo. Those 2 guys are hard to draw if you're below 2700

[@horacelidenbrock3905]

@@12jswilson As Yosha said, he could simply pick at random the games during which he could potentially cheat. It doesn't really matter if he cheated only once during a tournament, the whole performance is tainted.

[@handyman4everyman]

Ben has to be the most sarcastic but likeable chess KZbinr. He essentially calls the entire world including you (yes you) and Magnus (yes Magnus) babies and we all laugh along - like babies.

[@sanekabc]

Magnus average is 70% accuracy, if I understood Hikaru yesterday. His game against Hans was 43%. Magnus has nothing to complain about. He should apologize to the other players for F-ing up. We all f-up.

[@scythermantis]

FINALLY the guy we all need to hear from

[@ChessCat9]

Magnus is not a very nice person, that's one thing 100% clear.

[@bean0873]

Imagine playing a stretch of 6 tournaments better than any peak run of Fisher, Kasparov, Magnus, or Fabi’s 2014 Sinquefield Cup, and to then play in a Rapid tournament and score zero points. C’mon man. That video Yosha posted and Hikaru reacted to makes it pretty obvious what happened. The only real question left for most people is how?

[@DubberssMcgee]

You do know Yosha back tracked that video right? Let me guess you don't actually follow up after the headlines.

[@IronFire116]

@@DubberssMcgee False. She retracted one minor conclusion.

[@bean0873]

@@DubberssMcgee lol not quite. Were the 10 games played at a perfect 100% included in the 23 games above 90% or no? That’s a genuine question. I’m sure someone will do some research in the next week or so and find that Hans played as many games above 90% accuracy as probably 5 or 6 of the greatest chess players have combined.

[@AroundTheBest]

Hans simply played perfect chess for 20 games, then proceeded to lose all tournaments that move too fast to relay stockfish info.

[@moka1915]

Finegold's right why would any of you guys have an opinion at all? basically what he said or atleast what I understood from this video is that theres only one right way, and that's the finegold way, whatever finegold does and thinks is absolutely 100% and you're absolutely wretched if you think even slightly otherwise, and that is why finegold is the greatest human being to ever exist on this planet

[@NobodySpecial420]

Some thoughts: 1) Miami wasn't a rated tournament. Very less for Magnus to lose. Won't affect his 2900 goal. Why bother about cheating? 2) FTX Tournament was played online, on a chess platform, which would've picked up cheating. Every cheating claim against Hans happens to be OTB and rated.

[@CarltonPwasteman]

I'm glad you've got some juicy trending chess drama to comment on. Supported you since you started on KZbin, and anything that grows your channel is good in my book!

[@Eli-yr7ou]

Finally a voice of reason not deluded by elitisms or narcissism

[@AUPSHN]

But it could also be the case that Magnus, Nepo knew about Hans history in online chess but thought that cant be done over the board. But when Magnus played Hans in the sinquefield cup he thought that Hans was cheating in the game. As they already alerted the officials before the tournament, Magnus thought that the inspection is still lacking for anti cheat. And thats why he resigned from the tournament and from the next game against Hans.

[@LunnarisLP]

I loved how in his statement he wrote like "I made the unprecedented professional decision" when the decision and what he did was like everything but for sure not professional, but actually extremely unprofessional. He acted like a crying kid about it based on him perceiving that Hans somehow didn't focus on the match but smashed him lol.

[@johnnydoe3603]

It doesn’t even make Sense, let alone be Professional. If he had doubts, he Should have Quit earlier. 😂

[@tylerhaddock9583]

Why do you "love" it? Did you know professional has multiple meanings?

[@GMPranav]

I think Magnus believes SLCC helped Hans somehow. Maybe he thinks Hans has an insider in SLCC. There is no way of justifying how Magnus handled the situation, but if he believes this then him withdrawing atleast makes some degree of sense.

[@Into-The-Light]

This whole drama kinda reminds me of The Emperor's New Clothes fairy tale. Ben says things as they should be, no sugar coating.

[@lunchZA]

The glasses tilt got me every time

[@serenus6633]

Hans had 5 tournaments where he performed better on average than anyone in history, including several 30+ moves games and a 45 move game with 100% accuracy. Chess speaks for itself, truth hurts.

[@mychannelnotyours123]

I want to see engine accuracy of all GMs' games played from home during the pandemic compared to the accuracy of their pre and post pandemic in person OTB games. Having prizes for online tournaments is silly as there is zero way to stop online cheating. The two camera anti cheating system is a joke. Cheating at online chess is even easier than cheating at online poker.

[@sebastiang7394]

How Yo-Yos cheat at online poker? It’s a game of deception and chance. Calculating odds is the easy part. What good will an engine do.

[@trucid2]

Sebastien, there is optimal play for poker just like there is optimal play for chess.

[@killemdeader1189]

@@sebastiang7394 engines can present a range and sizing that real players cannot reasonably balance. For example, nobody in poker can keep a balanced range of value/bluffs while using a variety of different overbet sizings, but sophisticated engines can do it consistently.

[@totalhysteria]

@@sebastiang7394 you can also use programs like snapshove when you are shortstacked. The program will essentially tell you which hands to fold and which hands to go all in with. Another problem in poker is collusion. Friends can easily talk to each other and reveal folded hands. Did you really think cheating in poker didn't exist? 🤔

[@mychannelnotyours123]

Imagine you're playing online poker at a virtual table with six other players. Now imagine those six other players are actually one person or six individuals colluding on a Skype call. That is cheating at online poker.

[@robertfrydell703]

The issue here isn't about Magnus. It's about otb fair play. It's about bringing this issue to the forefront of the chess world's attention. The Hikaru vid does place a reasonable question mark on Hans. I admire Magnus for causing this discussion to advance the way it did. Speculating on the manner in which Magnus did so is missing the point. Watch the Hikaru vid.

[@victorbasurto1584]

The issue here is not cheating in chess and you were sidetracked like many, Magnus is using this cloak of virtue to slander Hans. Otherwise you do it in private and with the Fide since you cannot be judge and jury at the same time.

[@jammesvqk857]

There is something we do not know that pissed off Magnus big time. That is the most plausible explanation. The alternative is that Magnus took it too far, everything snowballed very quickly and now it's too late to go back.

[@malibunights7108]

Magnus is bullying Niemann because he can, he is the top 1 player and the best ever, and people and the organization is on his side.

[@jammesvqk857]

@@malibunights7108 That is what I am saying. Magnus does not like Niemann as a person, nothing to do with chess, so he is bullying him. The problem is that Magnus took it a bit too far.

[@snorrevange7335]

I personally am of the the opinion that Magnus likes challenging new players and takes them off the beaten path into difficult positions. I think there is something really fishy about Hans that you don't see with other players. His coach was booted from Titled Tuesday for being a cheat, Hans was caught and admitted to cheating twice and he has likely cheated more, hence why we got the Chessdotcom statement which is now between Hans and Chessdotcom which indicated he cheated more. His ELO rise is unprecedented in the history of chess, and he has so many games where he literally plays like an engine. He has very many games with 90% engine correlation and some with 100% and he has more than Carlsen does in the same period. Super fishy. Professional sports is built on mutual trust. Magnus and Ben agrees that they do not play players they feel are cheats.

[@piotrrashman6487]

@@snorrevange7335 "Magnus and Ben agrees that they do not play players they feel are cheats." but that's not what magnus did. it is like ben said, he could have withdrawn prior to the event, he could have refused to play hans and continue the tournament, he even could have played hans and, if he had any solid proof of him cheating, taken it to an arbiter, a judge or whatever. he didn't do any of that! instead he played him, lost, then absconded himself with some cryptic message and went radio silent for weeks, while rome burnt. look, i'm not defending niemann. he is quiet a suspicious character and, yes, he maybe a cheater. but that does not relief the reigning world champion ffs from handling a situation like this with more tact and grace.

[@malibunights7108]

@@snorrevange7335 what you are referring is Yosha's analysis which were disproven by Dr. Ken Regan. Ken Regan also critized her methods and correctly pointed out the obscurity of the scores and the invalid claims about Feller's unique performance. Her claims got quickly dismantled but I think it is evident she made her claims as transparently as she could and they were not made in bad faith.

[@kirkstable]

All this craziness from the world chess champion and I haven’t once heard anyone say they wish Bobby Fischer was back with the Cold War at its height

[@chairwood]

I wish Bobby Fischer was back and the cold war was at it's height. oh how I long for the unyielding threat of mass nuclear warfare.

[@kirkstable]

@@chairwood We got the unyielding threat of mass nuclear warfare probably more than ever but Bobby Fischer is unreplaceable

[@howard5992]

@@chairwood and general cloak and dagger skullduggery

[@user-yc3fw6vq5n]

Ahahahaha

[@moderneros]

Video has an error message “no stream” for me *Edit: working now. Go Ben!!!

[@ViciouslyBuoyant]

Always refresh

[@moderneros]

I’ve refreshed the app on mobile like 10x. Still error

[@kourii]

@@moderneros Could be a mobile app issue. Works fine for me on desktop

[@ryanlind5239]

In between Miami and St. Louis, cdc announced they were acquiring playmagnus group. Imo this is a part of the timeline, some information that Magnus got as part of his deal with cdc may have played a role. CDC is obviously involved as their ban of Hans at the same time as all this happening indicates.

[@trucid2]

Yep. There is more to this story than what Ben covered. The chesscom and Magnus connection cannot be ignored.

[@LcdDrmr]

Exactly what I was thinking. They showed him stuff just before the tournament that freaked him out, and might even have showed how Hans might be able to cheat OTB. But the info is proprietary, so Magnus can't talk about it. But Ben makes good points about why play Hans at all, then? Maybe it was losing that convinced Magnus, without him realizing that he just played badly, which he did. And it seems he thought the two-move game would cast an embarrassing spotlight on Hans, but I think it just made things confusing. And, of course, there's still no actual evidence against Hans.

[@trucid2]

@@LcdDrmr Since the info is proprietary, Magnus can't release it without Hans' permission. It all makes sense.

[@diodoubled]

Now lets talk about the "Elephant in the Room" - in this case Magnus being a crying baby. Great job Mr. Finegold :)

[@victorbasurto1584]

On the same token, has Magnum ever cheated? Particularly on online matches, once you reach the top you want to remain there.

[@boukman3668]

I agree with most of the points. However The story of Magnus considered whitdrawing from the tournament was confirmed by caruana. Actually, Caruana said that most participants complained about Hans. So I think is not just an excuse as Ben puts it. Something happened. The fact that they don't let us know or we cannot understand doesn't mean is all BS. My guess is that there is some sort of NDA in place. Another point is that there is an odvious diference bettween playing against an engine in a rapid game where there is no rating involved and security measures in place vs a slow game with all the time in the world to let the enfine think. .

[@DubberssMcgee]

None of the other competitors withdrew though. It is literally the justification he gave.

[@boukman3668]

@@DubberssMcgee Your are right. However, to that I would say that Magnus has World Champion Privilege to do stupid stuff like that and survive this heat. Any other player would have received some sort of sanction by FIDE. I guess thats why no other player had the balls to say anything untill Magnus took the lead. Notice how now we find out that everyone had problems with hans for a couple of years. My point is that, yes, Magnus handeled it poorly. He has that kind of impulsive personality, however. The rest wanted to do the same, they just don't have the balls to handle a situation like this.

[@finmat95]

Caruana*

[@boukman3668]

@@finmat95 thnks

[@freefall9832]

Great entertainment and glad Ben is making credits on it

[@CrocAU]

You just said he lost first game in Miami to Hans, yet he didn't exit tournament, so your "logic" is broken

[@justinbarbour5158]

Ben's Gigachad moment

[@thomasrad5202]

Ben you are disregarding some critical information. There is evidence that Magnus had already made up his mind about Hans prior to the tournament and so your theory that there is a 0 percent chance that Magnus would have withdrawn from the tournament if Hans lost is not substantiated. As you know, Hans was a last minute replacement for Rapport which put Magnus in an awkward position. It was too late for him to withdraw without reason, but too early for him to speak out against Hans. Fabiano accidentally leaked the news that Hans would be replacing Rapport prior to it being publicly announced, he also spoke about Magnus and how he reacted to this privately. Bear in mind this was all before the event and there is no way Fabi could have known what was to come. But in any case, there is evidence that suggests Hans being in this tournament troubled Magnus well before any games were even played. So why is it that you continue to paint Magnus as impulsive, unsportsmanlike and irrational? This frankly runs counter to his well established decades long professional and personal reputation. That is not to say that Magnus does not have an ego, he certainly does, but his pride has never take precedence over his love and respect for the game of chess. Even so, Magnus' credibility alone is not evidence, however it does amaze me how quickly the community has managed to turn on him considering the situation is still very much unfolding as we speak. It is far too early to be speaking in such absolutes. I assume you must have some inside knowledge that we do not?

[@davidlloyd1526]

What are you talking about? Magnus is always like this when something doesn't go his way...

[@quinnbaker4689]

Hikaru wants hans to be cheating so bad

[@DDi-bh3ud]

Hikaru is close to cheating for hans lol

[@AlexanderKrome]

Hiki is the biggest piece of shit in the chess community. Greedy two faced coward, with ego elevated by fanboys to extreme

[@brianthedog2004]

If there was a business that was an accused of, and admitted to perpetrating, at least a couple of fraudulent scams in the past, but you decided to give them a try anyway and in the process began to feel something was fishy, even though you had no iron clad evidence that they were going to scam you, wouldn't it be rational to avoid doing business with them? C'mon, let's not pretend human trust is only dependant on absolute smoking gun type evidence.

[@michael.a.m]

He couldn't cheat in the rapid tournaments because it takes too much time for the buttplug to vibrate the right moves in morse code.

[@CobraXXVI]

I'm glad to see my original rumor I spammed for the lulz on the St Louis chess channel the day the news broke has taken off over the last few weeks. Yes, I take full credit for the remote controlled vibrating anal beads.

[@andrewg2032]

There are rapid fire butt vibrators that can be used. Very expensive though.

[@asdfswer4657]

brooooo💀💀

[@aaronmarchand999]

THAT'S NOT WHAT HE DID!!!!!!!! HANS IS A GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE'S BETTER THAN MAGNUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!STOP CREATING UNFOUNDED RUMORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so angry my head is literally going to explode

[@tenkkutn]

0:01 yep I was thinking exactly what you said! You so smart, Ben. Magnus was off, and at that point, he wanted to lose and had a plan to expose Hans Cheaterman

[@dylanthomas2288]

I'm wondering how Magnus thinks Hans cheated over the board. I'm thinking Magnus couldn't properly concentrate since he thinks Hans is capable of cheating against him and just played a poor game as a result. He's angry he lost to Hans in classical chess as white and cannot get over it. I'm sure Hans has cheated in the past, but I'm seriously doubting that he's done anything similar nowadays.

[@johnnydoe3603]

You can Watch Hikaru’s Review of that Game from that Date. Basically he said that both Played Poor Games and Magnus missed multiple Opportunities to Draw the Game. But Hikaru learnt that Logical Reasoning doesn’t get Views. 😂

[@davidlloyd1526]

I doubt Magnus actually thinks Hans cheated against him. He'd have analysed the game after the match and seen the mistakes.

[@user-yc3fw6vq5n]

This has to be one of the funniest and smartest and most wholesome channels on KZbin.

[@kiwione12]

Hey Ben! Do you think there is a chance that Magnus was/is also suspicious of someone else cheating at the Sinquefield Cup? Could explain why he dropped out after playing Hans (because he didn't want to play the second cheater). And has thought it easier to make an example out of hans rather than the hypothetical "second cheater".

[@ChordFreak]

Do you remember Kasparov? Kasparov in gerneral; Kasparov vs. IBM? Seems that big dominance over years brings a character-development like this.

[@graylarson2751]

Ben's take is the only one that matters 😆

[@rizaldygalvez6724]

folks maybe you all FORGET that Hans is also a GRANDMASTER, when hes conditioned he can BEAT ANYONE, Magnus is NO EXCEPTION...

[@ethanandrews3076]

Oh cmon. Ben isn’t seriously saying that the logistics of cheating in a rapid tournament is the same as cheating in a slow tournament

[@VitulaJoy]

Plus, he’s saying “yea in Miami nobody cared and they beat him like a drum” yea probably because he didn’t cheat in that event lol. It’s almost like he won against magnus because he cheated lol. Idk how Ben doesn’t get this as it comes out of his own mouth.

[@gregorgiebel1377]

@@VitulaJoy he won a game against Magnus in the rapid tournament. So if you are saying that he didnt cheat there you are saying that Hans has the potential to beat Magnus without cheating. He lost all his Matches, not all his games.

[@palatusgames8800]

@@VitulaJoy 🤡

[@JunctionWatcher]

It’s almost as if Kesia lacks the critical thinking and understanding to have an informed opinion. Kesia hates Hans and hates anyone that contradicts their opinion.

[@vincentfrimpong4665]

the issue with his pov is that it goes against fabi's account, that magnus did consider dropping out when he knew hans would be playing, and i get the what he is saying that played a couple of weeks ago, but facts are facts, unless fabi made his up

[@mr.safensound4238]

There was some personal beef between Magnus and Hans that must have happened just at the end of the Miami tournament. Maybe Hans said something or acted in a way Magnus didn't like? He must have taken it personally.

[@MisterrLi]

According to the ChessBase analysis recently checking Hans' recent otb games, Hans is literally a chess engine. Consistently playing 100% games, following the first choice of some chess engine, can't be described as anything else. So, did he really memorize all those moves? Or did the moves come to him any other way while playing? And all these games are not just opening theory since those games are not analyzed, only games with sufficiently many new moves compared to theory are considered.

[@azandamsimang989]

"U were born not knowing.its not your fault " underated

[@scythermantis]

What do you think about Fabiano Caruana's disagreements RE: Regan's analysis on how the future of chess itself could be in jeopardy if cheating on specific moves is possible without being detected by the current system?

[@conelord1984]

I think that Fabiano is a great player but a bad statistician and a terrible detective.

[@AroundTheBest]

Regan couldn't find a cheater at an Ashley Madison sponsored event.

[@DubberssMcgee]

@@AroundTheBest The amount of people pretending they can out do the man that literally made his career on building these models is just the best. We really are living in the worst timeline. 🤣

[@AroundTheBest]

@@DubberssMcgee He misclassified multiple cheaters at the highest levels. His methods have only been able to distinguish between low and medium ELO players using engines to blatantly augment their play. Either you believe that a "former" cheater just happens to have 20 perfect games, more than any other active player, or you have a brain.

[@franklinwhitsell2987]

While I've not been the biggest fan in the past, I really have a lot of respect for your Magnus take. It is unbecoming for someone who is the face of a sport to behave the way he has. I'm with you on that.

[@wchambers3849]

Finally, somebody gets it right! Thanks Ben!!!

[@craigtimmons6907]

Ben keeping things real

[@tomhathaway2556]

Does anybody else feel like that statement from Magnus just reads as he lost and tilted?

[@nimatamizi1788]

What do you mean ? Caruana said on the podcast magnus didn't want to play that tournament when hans joined last minute its not about him losing

[@tomhathaway2556]

@@nimatamizi1788 he said in the statement it was because he lost that game

[@misterleegains4020]

Yeah, the argument about him not wanting to play him beforehand but he "had to" because Hans was a replacement seems like massive cope. And his statement about Hans not being capable of beating him as Black really rubbed me the wrong way. "Hans is not one of the 5 people I think can beat me with Black and he beat me therefore he cheated" and "Hans acted weird during the match" are not great arguments from Magnus.

[@garethdewhurst1499]

@@misterleegains4020 plus the "I didn't want to play the tournament once Hans was in it" doesn't seem to gel with "the game I lost changed my perspective"...changed it from what to what? thinking Hans cheats to thinking Hans cheats?

[@lymphhh]

@@misterleegains4020 Yeah. I kinda thought he would have something more substantial to say.

[@zl7460]

Magnus should be sanctioned for his outrageous behaviors leading to this ridiculous witch hunt. However, Magnus holds so much power and influence so that FIDE is not punishing Magnus at all. Shame on other GMs too for licking Magnus' boot and fueling this witch hunt further.

[@kevinwellwrought2024]

How come in hundreds of other tournaments in which Carlsen lost he never withdrew. Carlsen is good enough to distinguish between human and computer moves.

[@scottekoontz]

He is? Not only is he great at chess, but apparently he's also clairvoyant.

[@albertcamus1739]

There is a difference between losing against a top 2700 gm and a 2500 gm I'm now 1500, if I lose against a 1500 like me I won't feel so bad about it, but if I lose against a 1000 or 900, it will mess with me and make me super uncomfortable, that's the situation in here, magnus considered Hans as an inferior player to him so he couldn't accept losing against him

[@felixjohnston3402]

Because Magnus had a particularly bruised ego by losing a tough, drawn out game to a guy many people already dislike.

[@rjackstheartofwealth6152]

This guy fuckin loves Hans

[@joediditde]

That was pretty close to my opinion. Either you have suspicion and/or evidence to not play Hans at all, or you play all the games against to provoke him to cheat again so he can be exposed. This weird "everythings cool until I lose with white" is a pretty sad state of affairs. And he also makes it sound like Hans is holding his family members hostage. If Hans is applying legal pressure through a lawyer in some sort of "cease to desist" then Magnus should be open about that.

[@Logic-cg7qy]

Hmm, so... Hans is living rent-free in Magnus' head

[@abuyasera9677]

Magnus destroyed Hans career without any evidence

[@Bhubnipz]

The fact that Hans did cheat in the past, can’t give analysis anything close to sufficient analysis for his performance, and trash talks the other plays made it easy I guess

[@bajiraosingham9495]

Because "He didn't look very tense"

[@freefall9832]

Well I am a new Hans fan, don't know why but always go for the underdog

[@tyhjyydesta]

the absence of evidence speaks for its self

[@finmat95]

@@bajiraosingham9495 WOW WHAT AN EVIDENCE!!!! gtfo (not you)

[@theherk]

Wow, at least your chat has the ability to reason. Stan's gonna Stan.

[@bogdanbarbu363]

Hikaru and Caruana both said that everyone knew Carlsen wanted to quit Sinquefield as soon as he found out Niemann would be taking Rapport's place and that other participants felt uneasy as well considering his reputation. This was before Carlsen's loss.

[@JosephVice]

And?

[@miriclamier2875]

Ifs and buts bro

[@bogdanbarbu363]

@@JosephVice Finegold spends a couple of minutes claiming Carlsen didn't have a problem before his loss but it's more nuanced than that.

[@humanrightsadvocate]

9:57 Yes, the correct Rick and Morty phrase is, "Gorgon Shit! Total Gorgon shit!".

[@scottycranmer8548]

seen the 100% chessbase move matching that his games have? People have started comparing his games and NOBODY else has 100% after opening moves other than Hans. Even his 45 move game matched up 100% with the chessbase ai. Most top 10 players average 70% match

[@delvega1975]

1:18 - 1:36. 2:26 GM Finegold you gained a subscriber today because I appreciate your blunt and courageous ability to tell it like it is ! The world needs more people like this with the balls to speak openly and transparently. Well done.

[@sweetsweetmeat]

Ben coming in with the poignant and mature perspective. Truth hurts.

[@ludomirsteinbruck9376]

Also logical and not one sided wishful thinking