Doctor Who: Why 'Let's Kill Hilter' SUCKS

[@HarboWholmes]

Typo in the title? File a complaint below www.patreon.com/harbowholmes

[@DriverHenryWho3245]

Saving yourself from KZbin's mighty demonetisation system, I see.

[@DriverHenryWho3245]

Also *complaint

[@TripleR170]

Finally your talking about it, I hate this episode so much so I get to see why you hate it so much. I mean with a dumbass, insanely stupid, “in your face” title like that how could you take it seriously. I mean I didn’t like it before, I hate it now.

[@Neil070]

Reminiscent of a famous Monty Python sketch. Ask your dad. Or grandad? God, I'm so old.....

[@HarboWholmes]

@@Neil070 no fun in Stalingrad

[@ThOtherJoe]

“the doctor lies” could’ve been such a well-used trope for the franchise but it sucks that most of the time it’s used is so surface-level and used to justify the doctor doing a big nono

[@mayotango1317]

Or the retcons.

[@andrewdreasler428]

Yeah, it could have been part of a good "conversation tagline": "Is that the truth, Doctor?" "No, but it's a lie you can understand." Which ties in nicely to the way we are taught as children: we're first given simple answers that are not wrong, but not close to the real truth ("lies we can understand") and as we get more mature, we learn the more complex answers that are "less wrong" than the simple ones we had before. Or the rules should have been as follows: Rule one: The Doctor lies. Rule two: Trust the Doctor's lies as if they were truth; he's telling you everything you need and everything he can.

[@rkah6187]

@@andrewdreasler428 I love this one

[@ptolemeeselenion1542]

😂😂

[@xBoringPerfectionx]

I don't know why he didn't introduce her as a character from the start of series 6. He wouldn't have had to call her melody, just mels or another nickname. Then if we grew to knew her it would be such a shock to find out she was river.

[@altinaykor364]

and it would make even more sense in previous episode of why Amy names her daughter "Melody" we would immediately remember her best friend and probably would have make theories as well. But No!!!

[@natasharostova6067]

The real question is...where the hell was Mels living? In the house with the Prisoner Zero and Amy? Who were Mels' adoptive parents? I still have questions🤷🏾

[@ptolemeeselenion1542]

Do not lend to Big Finish any more ideas.

[@WiGgYof09]

The problem is Mel's was never meant to actually fit into Rory and Amy's history so none of those questions were even considered.

[@sail4170]

Tbh I feel like time lords are borderline like self sufficient

[@altinaykor364]

my word is actually this Wow, Mels/River! you grew up with your damn biological mother and father, you know, the young inexperienced innocent couple who lost you when you were born. and you never thought for one second that there's something about all of this that's wrong and cruel? what a nice person you are!

[@pundahandz7403]

Let's Kill Hitler is personally infamous for being the first time I thought "What the hell was that?" after watching an episode after broadcast. But Rory does punch Hitler so good job.

[@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose]

Ah yes, that awkward moment when you find out your childhood best friend is actually your daughter from the future who also happens to be married to *another* one of your childhood best friends, making him your son-in-law. Welcome to Doctor Who everybody. 😆😵💫

[@clapseal]

wait till you watch netflix's DARK, this is nothing compared to that show, (you should definitely watch it tho, a 10/10 show imo)

[@Neil070]

The Tenth Doctor married irl to the daughter of the Fifth Doctor who played his sort-of-clone daughter in "The Doctor's Daughter". The most meta title in TV history?

[@shmikex]

It's almost a gender-swapped Back to the Future. Except Rory or Amy never had a crush on Mels.

[@vannisy7971]

@@clapseal No.

[@voloso]

@@Neil070The title foreshadowed real life

[@zigzagzoom369]

This storyline really does introduce my biggest gripe with the handling of River Song, with the final nail in the coffin being 'Angels Take Manhattan'. In 'Silence in the Library' River is presented as having a whole life of adventures outside of The Doctor and is able to engage him on pretty much an equal footing, which I much preferred to the weird power dynamic in typical Doctor-companion romances. But the reveal that River was raised since birth to kill The Doctor and then fell in love with him and went into archeology because of him and so on...it just ruins this by making her entire life revolve around The Doctor.

[@baders087]

I agree. I thought the fact she was an archaeologist was to show she was a match for the Doctor and her inquisitive nature would make them a good pairing

[@tobylerone4285]

I love this episode but you’re absolutely right. I get a lot of enjoyment from these episodes on their own terms, and river has some great moments over her entire tenure, but things don’t hang together that well

[@Futurebound_jpg]

Agreed. I never liked rivers character and how the show handled it anyway, this just completely ruins her for me. Her and the doctor never actually fell in love or had a married life, like she likes to insinuate, they simply passed complicated paths many times and awkardly flirted. Its SO unsatisfying

[@Futurebound_jpg]

@@tvguy61 all the time she’s insinuating theyre married married is before that happened. Thats the last thing they did before her death and we saw none of it! Just 1 date

[@Comicbroe405]

@@Futurebound_jpg Considering its the Doctor I think it works as "married life" with how it goes with him. River's diary being filled implies they've had multiple adventures together & spent a lot of time. And they both clearly thought of each other as married & were in love.

[@johannvongenerico9487]

Rory is so much fun in this episode. I love the "I expect so, it's that sort of day" line so much

[@wendyheatherwood]

Rory is the one thing that really saves this episode for me.

[@harley7836]

I love both of “Right come on you, get up. I just put Hitler in a cupboard!” Too himself and then a few minutes later “No I think that’s just Hitler in the cupboard!” Too Amy when she thinks she’s got a headache, Lines of Rory’s as well as him telling Hitler to “shut up” then knocking him out. River’s whole speech when she jumps out the window and is talking to the Soldiers is on a level of it’s own along with her “I’ve not got a single thing to wear. Now take off your clothes!” While holding two massive automatics in the restaurant! 🤣🤣🤣 I personally love this episode, there’s so much dialogue that people still quote all these years later from the episode.

[@cowboynoodles472]

I loved when he said “cluUes? What sort of cloUuess?” While mimicking Amy’s accent

[@ohgoditshimrun1346]

The important thing there is what sort of a day Rory is having. This is one of the days when the memories of his centuries as the Last Centurion are bubbling up to the surface. That's when he learned all these skills for his superhero moments.

[@Sk8rToon]

That’s the big difference between the original RTD run vs Moffatt. RTD hid bad wolf & Saxon all over before it came up in the story. Moffatt squeezing in Melody’s life at the last minute feels like it was a last minute idea. Sure it’s lampshaded by the doctor who is surprised like us of the friend not previously existing, but still feels cheap.

[@redjirachi1]

Mels should've been a background character in Season 5 and early 6. Have her show up at the wedding. Also Moffat needs to go to horny jail

[@Jaeden_Phoenix]

I think that Mels should've been Jeff from The Eleventh Hour. It'd be completely bonkers, and dumb, but it'd at least have *some* previous establishment Side Note: The Death in The Library was stated to have likely killed The Doctor, because it would've stopped both his hearts (or something) and stopped regeneration. So Moffat was fixing a problem he forgot his past self fixed for himself.

[@yalieyal4362]

Dude mels is jeff from the eleventh hour, just a previous regeneration.... If u think I'm making this up, just wait a few more years and big finish would've proven me right.

[@killgriffinnow]

Nah. Gender switches are often annoying and they’d never do a female-male one.

[@warrenny1168]

Good point the doctor literally says this will kill me (might have been river)

[@arthemis1039]

@@yalieyal4362 No since we see black River growing with Amy since their childhood ? They should just have replace black River by Jeff, simply

[@yalieyal4362]

@@arthemis1039 time traveler dude. River came back as Jeff to the eleventh hour, which is why we don't see mels.

[@ElliotFW]

Anyone else think a much better resolution to The Wedding of River Song would have been for The Doctor to use a ganger to fake his death rather than the Tesselecta? It would be satisfying, as the Silence used gangers to trick him twice, only for their master plan to be foiled the same way.

[@shmikex]

Agreed

[@diegomorales7290]

or do the same for literally everyone in everyasngle oh-so-impossible-to-alter "fixed point in time" since apparently you only have to change the surface events of apparent history for the universe not to blow up. seriusly moffat, what the hell

[@ElliotFW]

Diego Morales I know, right! Also if River chose not to shoot The Doctor, wouldn't that just become the "fixed point"? Time travel is complex and hard to understand, but in cases like this, writers are clearly just making up rules that don't make any sense. I just thought that using a ganger would be more thematically appropriate for the plot.

[@mitchellhorton9382]

@@ElliotFW No it's a "fixed point" because people from the future are involved in the events (the Tessalector/doctor) so if those events change then it creates a paradox that threatens time/space

[@SeanS102]

literally everybody and their mother thought this was going to happen, people would have HATED this, too obvious

[@dracorim6370]

One of my biggest problems with the episode is how plot heavy it was. Amy and Rory were sidelined so we would learn about the massive plot device known as the Tesselecta while their daughter who to them they last saw when she was a baby and was kidnapped is rushing through her backstory with basically no character development between them. Why was the relationship between the Doctor and Melody/River the focus when Amy and Rory are her parents and should be the most important part of her life at this point in her story. Instead we just get a bunch of foreshadowing for the finale that no one really cares about. Why couldn't we get a character centric story where the characters are the focus and that Amy and Rory have a real relationship with Melody/River? Well... its Moffat that's why and Moffat refuses to have anything other than plot in his series arcs.

[@vallaby2042]

Hey don't forget about series 10 where we finally had an arc purely revolving around the doctor and the Masters relationship! ...Which got cut short in order so we can build up her entrance for half of the series!🤦‍♂️

[@bmvthemoviefanatic7282]

What's funny with Melody using all her regenerations is that there is no Library plot hole. She says in the episode the Doctor wouldn't regenerate and destroy both his hearts. So Moffatt already covered himself there. Weird.

[@dragonsalty]

Fun history fact: There has been many occasions where the Austrian man escaped death/accidentally saved from assassinations (an infamous one being a table from a bomb in a suitcase) so The Doctor adding to the list is generally hilarious

[@monkeyatanofficedesk9253]

Mr Smittler?

[@TheWolfXCIX]

I remember that scene in red dwarf haha

[@jameskilgour387]

@@monkeyatanofficedesk9253 Austrian Painter Man

[@captainkenzie6873]

Interesting fact: Hans Zimmermann was a real guy.

[@superjirachi5981]

Wait wait wait! Wasn’t an explanation already give for why River didn’t just regenerate in Forest of the Dead? River says that the Doctor hooking himself up to the computer in that episode would cause both his hearts to burn up and make him unable to regenerate. Wouldn’t the same thing have theoretically happened to River in that situation? Steven Moffat already gave himself an out on that regard he didn’t need to do so here Can Steven Moffat not even remember episodes that HE’S written?!?!

[@mitchellhorton9382]

I mean she's not a full blood Time Lord they could just have said she only had 2 regenerations too

[@Sillimant_]

@@mitchellhorton9382 don't you dare make excuses for shitty writing, had enough of that with chibnalls hack at it, and now there's the disaster of bigeneration

[@altinaykor364]

look at what he's done to Weeping Angels. his own masterpiece of monsters. how they couldn't look at each other but did for some reason later. how they turned out to be able to turn into angel even through pictures and footages, even though Sally and Larry took a lot of those photos in Blink! how they suddenly will possess you if you look at their eyes, which is exactly what Larry did in Blink! or how about Liberty Statue is also an angel for some reason even though it has billions of photos and footages around the world! so you know the answer to your question, already. and I'm not surprised at all

[@RoyalKingOliver]

I seriously hate this episode just cause it’s so messy and tonally inconsistent But i forcé myself yo Watch it just cause it’s so hilarious seeing Rory taking control of the situation. Saying “Shut up Hitler” and then punching him as well. God I love that Centurión

[@user-is7xs1mr9y]

To be honest Rory is the only reason I decided to keep watching the Moffat era.

[@kanashimi4356]

The more I examine the Moffat Era the more I see him mirroring things Davies tried to do but failing because he missed a key point or two.

[@sanddagger36]

13:26 It is established long before Moffat that there is extra energy in a regeneration and it can be used to regrow limbs or heal bullet wounds. This scene is not bad in my opinion but it did lead into Moffat using regeneration as a free pass way too often. It makes no sense for timelords to be able to heal other people with their regeneration energy. I hate the ending of this episode and the time the doctor heals River's wrist in the Angels take Manhattan and the way he used his regeneration energy in the Magician's apprentice, tho that one is slightly more forgiven because they used a machine like in Mawdryn Undead. If the doctor can just heal broken bones by touching people why doesn't he do so all the time. Even if you say he wouldn't do it for everyone, he definitely would've for the Master when he refused to regenerate at the end of series 3.

[@lp-xl9ld]

When I first saw this, my reaction was "oh GREAT, Moffatt wrote himself into a corner with River and now he's just trying to get out of it...by ANY means necessary." And to be honest, it shows.

[@frazzlesreviews5379]

Moffat really confused the difference in relationship someone has with their best friend and their child. If I found out any of my friends was actually my child then I would probably burst a fuse considering what they get up to…

[@shmikex]

Cutting out the Tesselecta altogether would have made the story better. Imagine this. The TARDIS crew lands and accidentally prevents Hitler from dying from choking (the shock of the TARDIS landing causes him to start choking on something he is chewing on). Rory saves Hitler by performing the Heimlich maneuver. Amy comments on Rory performing it, Hitler comments on it sounds German and therefore is great, and the irony is that the technique was actually invented by a Jew. Story proceeds with Amy, Rory, and the Doctor having to stop a seemingly unstoppable Mels from killing Hitler and its slowly revealed something ain't normal with Mels. Maybe Mels resents the Doctor for having a time machine but not being able to prevent atrocities like genocide throughout history. The Doctor tries to dissuade Mels from killing Hitler but she doesn't quite understand the ramifications of such alterations in time. Finally, he gets through to her by telling her he can't even save his own people, and in that moment of weakness and understanding that some things in time cannot change, Hitler shoots her. Everyone is shocked, Rory knocks out Hitler, and Mels regenerates into River. This appreciation of preserving history sets River on the path to become an archaeologist, studying the Doctor's affect on history. As for the finale....the Doctor you see die on screen is a ganger. Come on, they set this up easily :)

[@Im_Evie_Now]

That is SO COOL! I wish they had done this instead. Underrated comment.

[@lexezlao]

This is basically genius One thing though, how can we explain river's death in forest of the dead if she never loses her regenerations in this episode?

[@asentientcactus]

@@lexezlao it was stated in that episode that the doctor would have died if he had done that, what River did stops regeneration

[@lexezlao]

@@asentientcactus ohhhh

[@maikidot]

Probably one of the best examples of Doctor Who titles not really correlating to the actual episode, like The Bells of St John.

[@maouliamediaofficial]

And witches familiar..... All Steven Moffat episodes..... Freaking hell, Moffat! I'm trying to praise you for your writing, but you make it so difficult!

[@Reginald425]

@@maouliamediaofficialHe also wrote that one title ‘A Christmas Carol’… like, what? What does a ‘Carol’ have to do with that episode? There’s barely any singing, and it’s definitely not the focus of the episode.

[@maouliamediaofficial]

@@Reginald425 it's because he's trying to do a retelling of the Charles Dickens story, so he slapped that title on the special because of fair use..... Could be worse, it could be the name of the doctor. Which should have been called the tomb of trenzalore since that's essentially what the episode revolved around.

[@jackyzimmerman]

Weird how The Curse of Fatal Death was less of a parody and more of a Moffat handbook. Reminds me of young Chibnall complaining about vapid action scenes.

[@frazzlesreviews5379]

The lesson is that in order to become a Doctor Who show runner you have to become the thing you used to hate

[@jackyzimmerman]

@@frazzlesreviews5379 I’d call it a lesson in humility. It’s easy to criticise until you’re the one in the driver’s seat, and that can apply to a lot of fans, too.

[@frazzlesreviews5379]

@@jackyzimmerman Exactly. No one is free from criticism but I think sometimes people can forget writers are people to. Imagine being Moffat and not having seen your kids and wife in weeks because you were working, it would probably be so tempting to just monologue everything to get it done with quicker. I mean it’s his fault for choosing so much work to do in the first place and I’m not saying Harbo isn’t 100% right with the criticisms here but some other fans do forget that writers are people and not moustache twirling villains.

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

I was conceived in a nuclear reactor which is why I have a perfect knowledge of nuclear physics.

[@user-is7xs1mr9y]

I was conceived in a kitchen, therefore I'm the best chef ever.

[@yalieyal4362]

"Shove your nearest dictator into a closet" *Russians on their way to Moscow intensifies*

[@DriverHenryWho3245]

"Hilter" Saving yourself from KZbin's mighty demonetisation system, I see.

[@user-is7xs1mr9y]

I can't believe I didn't notice before, I'm so dumb lol

[@nathanbarrett4402]

Why would someone want to kill Mr Hilter, a man whos running in the North Minehead by-election. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIWvlnWvl6-bidE

[@asentientcactus]

That is so clever, never noticed it before

[@DanTheMan2150AD]

That poor Austrian painter, locked in a cupboard and then forgotten about for the rest of his life. Whatever happened to him?

[@pun-inator6075]

I wouldn't mind 'the doctor lies' if it was the first rule implanted in River when fighting the Doc and it was her programming remaining in control. Sort of like the 'it's a magical place' response from Coulson in AoS.

[@caitlynmarie2677]

9:58 I wonder if my fondness for River stems from “Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead” being possibly my favorite episode(s) of the show…?

[@bloodyneptune]

The "Let's Kill Hitler" title was a reference to the "let's kill Hitler paradox", not about Hitler being a major part of the episode. The paradox revolves around going back in time to kill Hitler, which Mels wanted to do.

[@caitlynmarie2677]

2:48 I have to say, I actually thoroughly enjoyed the episode of “Misfits” that tackled the ‘kill hitler via time travel’ plot. It was a fun episode. Anyone else?

[@LibertyBridgeProductions]

It’s an awesome episode but he doesn’t bring that up 😂

[@alijoe2173]

I don’t know I find it boring and quite cringy I don’t think it needed to exist

[@caitlynmarie2677]

@@LibertyBridgeProductions sometimes we are allowed to contribute completely independent thoughts in the comments. It’s wild down here. (To clarify- he was discussing the idea of time traveling to kill hitler always coming up eventually with shows/movies that deal with time travel, it brought the “misfits” episode to mind for me, so I mentioned it here in the comments where other people might even want to discuss it.. I didn’t mean to bother anyone with my tangential thinking!)

[@caitlynmarie2677]

@@alijoe2173 That’s fair - I think what I liked about it was having a person succeed in the time travel but then fail in executing their plan, which led to a severe worsening of the worst case scenario. I think too many people imagine being able to do it and succeed, as if it would be so simple. So I like how the “misfits” episode explored how much worse things could have gotten. It’s not one of my favorite episodes but I liked where they took the idea. Usually in time travel shows or movies, the idea is always pretty instantly trashed because “we can’t alter the time line blah blah blah”. Also - it made me wonder about the limits of that particular time travel power. How far back could he go…?

[@alijoe2173]

@@caitlynmarie2677 fair enough i just don't feel that was given enough attention

[@mathieuleader8601]

I remember at the time I thought Lets Kill Hitler was a sequel episode to Victory of the Daleks with Davros's no.2 Nyder having been send into the 1940's allowing the Nazi's to create their own Daleks

[@yalieyal4362]

Brooooooooo

[@theentity5201]

Same here but with the rebel flesh/almost people, I thought those were going to be the cyberman stories of season 6, definitely sounds like one

[@alfredvickers4054]

How is "Rule 1: The Doctor Lies" borderline character assassination? He has always withheld information, been manipulative, and has even outright lied ever since the First Doctor in the 1960s. He lied about the TARDIS needing repairs so he could explore an alien city in the 2nd ever serial, The Daleks. Acknowledging a character trait he has always had is not ruining the character.

[@caitlynmarie2677]

13:43 I was thinking about this a minute or so earlier in the video - he wanted to make “fish fingers and custard” one of those epic, powerful lines *so effing badly* … “like, stop trying to make “fish fingers and custard happen! It’s not going to happen!” 🙃😉

[@Sophia-cd2ci]

Rory single characterly stops this from being my least favourite episode. So many great one liners.

[@MrLarry]

I always assumed that Moffatt didn’t have any mention of Mels prior to this episode because he feared viewers would figure out the twist. But it definitely backfired because as soon as the character was announced everyone thought “must be Melody”

[@Pixxeria]

Moffat doesn't plan anything.

[@MrLarry]

@@Pixxeria he does, he’s just not very good at it

[@WiGgYof09]

It's genuinely felt like he made up River's backstory episode by episode. It doesn't feel like a complete picture that was broken into a puzzle. Her back story feels like someone tried to make a picture by creating one puzzle piece at a time.

[@smperhero]

As bad as this episode is, I do feel that the scene where the Doctor argues with the robot to protect River (~16:00 to ~16:30) does make sense. Their morality isn't shown to be inconsistent at all, and they're frantically trying to appeal to the better nature of the robot's pilot while both having to fight the poison that's killing them and terrified knowing that the child of their best friends is being very quickly tortured right in front of their eyes. The robot is established to be a vehicle for a "justice"-fetishizing team of vigilantes who go back in time and, rather than use their technology to at least save a few individuals from tragedy like the Doctor did in Pompeii, deliver further unobservable punishment to the people who intentionally did terrible things. They do not save any lives or really help anyone by doing this, so the Doctor picks up on the fact that instead of perceiving "justice" as something to improve anyone's wellbeing, the robot crew see "justice" as only a way to cause further harm to others. However, since the crew seems to have strong feelings for a concept of "justice", the Doctor thinks they may have had good intentions at some point and that by appealing to these deeper values, the pilot might have a change of heart and go against their group's malicious culture by sparing River. The Doctor makes the point that if the robot's crew really wanted to do something "good", they would use their technology to find ways to help victims without damaging the timeline. The crew use the exact technology needed to accomplish this (approaching upcoming victims in disguise, faking their deaths, bringing them to the future) but only to hurt the responsible people right before they die so that none of their harmful actions are actually affected. The result is nothing more than further cruelty dealt to the overall human species, even if the people experiencing it would have "deserved" it had there been actual consequences (like they then changed their ways or other people were dissuaded from repeating their actions). Genuine heroism requires more effort, so the crew just satisfies the feelings of angry people (them and whoever hears about it in their future society) while the people who the anger is felt for aren't helped in any way. The Doctor is not sure if the robot's captain is really aware of this or if they've been deluded by their environment, but hopeful they're a well-meaning person who just hasn't pieced it together yet. When claiming that they aren't dead yet, the Doctor is pointing out that they have a right to their own life and, after being such a hero to the universe, should at least be allowed to remove the responsibility from whoever kills them. They're really just saying that, since they accept their death on their own terms, River isn't the one responsible for it and therefore doesn't even count as someone who would "deserve" punishment to the crew. The crew, however, are shown to be overwhelmed by their intentions when they refuse to acknowledge this and even ignore the fact that killing River this early would damage time and completely undermine what they stand for, which is why the Doctor explains it through a joke. They want to disrupt the overwhelming thoughts and stubbornness of the crew to get them to think about what they're doing.

[@clint-thenormalguy-rockwell365]

River knowing how to drive the tardis for being conceived there is like saying I can drive my dad's Ford the moment I'm born

[@matthewkramer6550]

Am i really the only person that liked the fact that amy and the doctor used fish fingers and custard as a way of say something was fine. At least to my memory it was only used twice and it was to say trust me without asking why. That was there special bond and im glad it was brought up during a pretty big moment tieing into the doctors death.

[@Comicbroe405]

True

[@patti9307]

I agree with most of what you're saying except for it being out of character that the Doctor would stop the Teselecta from torturing River. He's basically always known (at least by 11's time) that River was meant to kill him. And he knows this is the past her ( he's even seen her sacrifice her life for him). He cares profoundly for his companions no matter what they do, like when Clara betrays 12 by throwing all his Tardis keys in lava in a dream sequence and he says: "Clara do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?". But yeah, Moffat was definitely way too lost in his own mythos in this series. Love your videos!

[@volnartheunforgiving3952]

That scene was nothing like 13th Doctor morality

[@tez.3508]

Making anything sonic just for the bants is a very doctory thing to do

[@IDidntSetAHandle]

I wish my fan brain wouldn't get so caught up on the poisoned Doctor asking the TARDIS about regeneration, despite knowing he's already on his 13th life.

[@user-is7xs1mr9y]

Maybe he was trying to reasure himself, or in denial? idk

[@WiGgYof09]

It's another example of Moffat not having thought things through. It wasn't until series 7 that he decided the Doctor was at the end of his regeneration cycle.

[@sh-spectrum409]

I was also really confused when I saw Mels for the first time and when I was told she's been best friends with Amy and Rory since childhood. Because I thought, "Really?! You two are best friends with this complete and utter arsehole?"

[@dracrorasco4907]

to be fair the reason the doctor might not want the tesalector to harm River/Mels is because he knows her future self and cares about her also I think the doctor would be appose to torture anyway

[@jasonhuynh2673]

So when she said "I learned from the best, it's too bad you were busy that day." Back in the weeping angels episode, she meant he was busy dying...

[@CREN13Queen]

Another great video. And you are totally right, if they wanted the Mel is River twist to work they should have had her appear or at least be mentioned in earlier episodes. And actually giving Amy & Rory a best friend on earth would have really helped them as companions as compared to previous companions they really lack context. We see Amy's parents at the wedding, Rory's dad shows up later, but that's it. Having a recurring best friend would have really worked. And then the twist would have been awesome. It would have been clear from go that they named their baby after Mel as well so the two name things could have landed in different episodes. I will admit that Mel's "Penny in the air" does just live in my brain now as an expression.

[@saintarkweather]

I hate how the Tesselecta is treated as an unquestionably good thing. It even claims to be fighting for justice like the Doctor. In reality it's a vigilante torture machine. It isn't accomplishing anything, torturing war criminals at the end of their lifespan doesn't save any lives or make anything better. Other people aren't less likely to commit war crimes because of it, because nobody lives to tell the tale. They don't even provide victims families with a sense of justice because they don't know about it. There isn't even an indication of how they determine who "deserves" torture. And when we see the theme of "don't be as bad as them" constantly used in the show, it's really bizarre to me that the show treats the Tesselecta as a good thing.

[@greghawkins59]

The whole mels childhood thing really didn't make sense to me, like did she just remain a child from the 60s to the 90s then start growing up at the same rate as amy and rory when she met them?

[@maouliamediaofficial]

My uncle said the child melody turned into a black girl, who regenerated into another black girl (mels) before turning into River.... Who the first one was, I don't know

[@vladskiobi]

Guess she regenerated again at some point?

[@dennigalla]

I genuinely think this episode is one of the worst scripts ever put to production. It baffles me that they actually put this out considering how manically shit it is.

[@tobylerone4285]

For people like me I guess

[@unorthodoxbox]

I consider series 6 pt 2 and series 7 to be the low point of the Matt Smith era, it has good moments but comparing it to series 5 and 6 pt 1 it felt solid if a little loose in places. Moffat just seems to not spend time planning and just wants to shock the audience. It gets quite irritating for me.

[@yalieyal4362]

I would say there are some saving graces in 6 pt2 and 7 (god complex and what not) but I would agree that its a dip in quality... Also its when 11 became waaaay too goofy which I don't think is a coincidence

[@pisoprano]

I remember a roommate coming in the room while I was in the middle of watching this episode the first time, and when they asked about the show, I completely floundered for an answer because there was just too much to explain for it to make _any_ sort of sense

[@samwitherington8202]

Please let a future incarnation use a sonic cane, that would be cool.

[@Potatoboii2]

I just realised, I don't like any of the episodes with river and the 11th doctor. D:

[@barrelracer12]

Hang on. If river and the doctor are on backwards time lines and rivers last meeting with the doctor was his first meeting of her. And this is river's first meeting with the doctor. Then shouldn't this be the last time we see river.

[@yalieyal4362]

No, because that's not how time works. People think of time like a linear process of cause and affect, but if u think of time from a non linear non subjective view point its more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey wimey... stuff... Also both the doctor and river are time travelers, so its ridiculous to think that those timelines will match up perfectly like that. Also also u made a mistake there. Even If your logic is correct (it isnt) then this would be the last time *the doctor* sees river, not us.

[@digimaniacstudios5959]

Their meetings are in the wrong order, not inherently reverse of each.

[@The12thDimension.]

I think "It's so frustratingly Moffat" is the most common problem with Moffats episodes.

[@andrewdreasler428]

5:00 "But that was Davros as a kid." I hate to state the obvious, but is there *ANY* Doctor Who fan who does NOT know what Davros and the Daleks are a metaphor for? (*cough*cough* points at the episode being reviewed in this video *cough*cough*)

[@StarWyvernHPB]

It makes sense that the doctor couldn't let river/melody die, as she later saved his earlier self

[@SpaceFluffDW]

I will be very surprised if this video stays monetised

[@MunkkyNotTrukk]

A Good Man Goes To War and Let's Kill Hitler was the point when I really started noticing a dip in quality with the show's writing. A lot of people think that Doctor Who's current decline, now at the point of unwatchable dreck like Legend of the Sea Devils, started with Chris Chibnall being hired as showrunner, but I'd say it started with the latter half of season 6.

[@fastertrackcreative]

What bugged me about the expositional bit was that why would the tesselector programme know that they thought the Silence was a species? It seemed a bit random for a machine just playing out data files.

[@alicesophie123]

Also isn’t Rule 1, don’t wander off?? :P

[@Gamelover254]

I always remember the shock I felt when some character I never heard of turned out to be River Song. Like wow…what a plot twist.

[@kateglew580]

You can definitely tell that this script was Moffat's first draft

[@spacereviewer]

I think The 11th Doctor and River Song should get Some Big Finish Adventures, because it could show why River was worthy of becoming the Doctor‘s wife. What i mean By that is i don‘t currently see Why the Doctor chose River over anybody else.

[@goeldicotton]

Honestly though! Like I love these two as couple, but the wedding happened way too soon in their timeline. They needed more moments. (and to maybe not get married very suddenly for almost no reason)

[@WiGgYof09]

Was that wedding even real? The 10th Doctor implies that River knew his name because he told her during the wedding ceremony, but he doesn't actuallybtell her. In fact, we niw have have no idea how, when, or why he told her. Frankly, I don't think River was 11's wife. At best, she was his girlfriend. To me, the 12th Doctor and River acted more like husband and wife in their single episode and their 24 year night together is when their relationship gained depth.

[@Freezer28528]

Fun fact: This was voted as kid's favourite on Doctor who adventures magazine back when Smith's era was coming to an end. I can see why.

[@tzarg]

wait actually... how come the doctor doesn't INSTANTLY sniff out melody as being another time lord? or instantly realise river song is one the moment she enters the silent library? eeeeeeeeeeeehhhmmm... but anyway I love this episode but a gripe I have is that the episode, and the one before it are clearly connected right, and so you think it's gonna continue this after? nope, wrong, incorrect, I mean, maybe it does in series 7, but I don't know since i've restarted my doctor who watch, so when I get there again i'll just have to wait and see

[@tomnorton4277]

My biggest problem is why give River the ability to regenerate at all? I love Steven Moffat but he really fucked up here. If Jenny, who was at least 80% Time Lady, couldn't regenerate then there's absolutely no way that River, who's at least 90% human, could do so.

[@mayotango1317]

Jenny is a clone, River not.

[@tomnorton4277]

@@mayotango1317 That's not an excuse. Jenny was MUCH closer to being a Time Lady than River was so if she couldn't regenerate, River certainly wouldn't be able to.

[@johnmorris2414]

The Timeless Chhild recon states regeneration is only passed on generically nothing to do with being born in the TARDIS. So Rory couldn't have passed on this ability.

[@Trinidad413]

Exactly. Jenny even had 2 hearts. Does River have 2 hearts?

[@nicocarrero5953]

Didn't the Library two-parter establish that the Doctor would have died at the Library without regenerating had he gone through? It doesn't sound like they needed River to give up regeneration, at least to answer that "plot hole" anyways.

[@WiGgYof09]

The Doctor says he would have a chance, but River wouldn't. River says he wouldn't have a chance and neither does she. In River's first episode it is implied that she knows the future 10th Doctor as her Doctor. She said he gave her his screwdriver, which is why it looks like an upgraded version of 10's. So, it's unclear whether it is only the 10th Doctor that would have died and he would regenerated or if he would have died out right. It has since been retconned that that River was talking about future incarnations of the Doctor so it is niw clear that he would have died out right and not regenerated. So yeah, Moffat created an answer to a problem that never existed.

[@senonimoustv2497]

When I rediscovered Doctor after many years this episode had literally just aired and was on the re-run loops on BBC America.

[@yalieyal4362]

This is ironiclly my favorite episode of doctor who, just because how great the concept is (in my opinion) and how bad and silly and bonkers the execution was

[@SammyPebbles]

tha'ts weird. this was the episode that made me stop watching the show.

[@yalieyal4362]

@@SammyPebbles well, I did day this is *ironically* my favorite... Its a Terrible episode. a perfect example of how not to do a mystery box, a perfect example of some other things I don't feel like listing, but at the end of the day it is just a Terrible episode...

[@sbi168]

Let's kill Hitler is a good episode. It's fun and personally I love Alex Kingston in this episode. The cramming of Mel could have been better and threaded in since the start of the series but it doesn't overly bother me. I don't get the hate Moffat gets for writing smart clever scripts. I love it and he is by far my favourite writer for who.

[@altinaykor364]

lame

[@harryallsopp9136]

Mels- "I'm melody" Rory- *panics as he remembers the time he drunkenly sent her dicpics*

[@emperorholocron8278]

The Doctor kind of does have to be the bodyguard of a war criminal in A Town Called Mercy

[@pauliep213]

I just watches Alex Kingston reacts to River Song scenes...a video by Penguin Books. She said that Moffat would not let anyone write a River Song episode and that he was the only one who knew the long game with her

[@TylerSkylionChilders]

Noah Taylor has played Hitler TWICE! The film Max. Which has a brief supporting role for Peter Capaldi

[@ohgoditshimrun1346]

TARDIS telepathic interface. Programming her with piloting reflexes while in the womb. Fascinating worldbuilding, completely unexplored.

[@Jayforeman3047]

The scene where Mels is talking back to the history teacher about the Doctor not being there to save them always annoys me because it gives the vibes of the friend that you share your new favourite band or tv show with and then all of a sudden that's their new favourite thing and they're always going on about it like it's THEIR thing. So irritating! 😂

[@BradTheThird]

4:32 Hitler's like... "Finally... A time traveller who is NOT trying to kill me..."

[@joelkelly4154]

Moffat wanted a more comedic light-hearted episode *Hitler*

[@jimmy2k4o]

Amy’s move to nearly kill everyone on the tessalecta is good mother behaviour

[@AxelaxiB]

If we would’ve seen Mel’s throughout the series it would’ve been even more impactful when it was revealed she was River too

[@HOAfan11]

I only liked how it ended up being used as a twist in the latter episode.

[@jonathonriddle9922]

"Will the dancing Hitlers please wait in the wings? We are only seeing singing Hitlers!" For me, "A Good Man Goes To War." was the low point of the entire Moffatt run, so even this was an improvement (however slight) over that travesty.

[@WiGgYof09]

The more we saw of River's back story to less I liked the character. It feels like Moffat was making up her back story from episode to episode. I cant see how the River we see in thisnepisode turned into the River we see in Silence in the Library. She must have gone through some serious character growth during that 24 year night she had with 12.

[@Renegade2786]

6:10 - 6:21 It worked for John Connor, why not for Mel?

[@ms.antithesis]

It sucks logic wise, but I still love it...if they'd done series 6 as 2 series, drawn the plot out making each half series into a full one in 2011 and 2012, they could have thought it out a lot more..and had more budget for a real grandscale conclusion, then instead of an overblown ending , you just end it with how series 6 series ended Amy and Rory, with a haply ending and the potential for future appearances. Maybe have a scene where they just decide they don't want to go on adventures anymore and the doctor gets upset, no big forced pushes out of the show. Then you start s7, which is now s8, in 2013, where you can have a series of specials, because yenno...the entire reason s7 feels so rushed and shit is because Moffat had 2pmillipj things on his plate..so limit8ng it to like 3 or 4 specials leading up to the 50th would have been better ...but yenno, hindsight is 2022

[@spacereviewer]

Imagine if Series 7 was a all a Doctor and River as his Companion season. What would you think of that Idea? Ps: Clara Gets then introdueced in Series 8

[@lovelyspringweather]

I hate this Dr Who episode. But I loved this review. Truly S-tier for KZbin TV reviews for me lol

[@harryjackson8520]

5:59 Back to the Future Vibes

[@ericcesarmorales1195]

After the Timeless child revelation, River can only be a time lord if one of her parents is a time lord… so Chibnall retroactively made Rory the Master

[@chtholly8084]

The problem with trivialising and making a mockery of Hitler is it has the side-effect of mocking his actions, and thus making light of the atrocities of WW2. I'd actually argue that if there was one man that *shouldn't* be trivialised, it's Hitler, especially in a show aimed at least in part towards kids, because what message is that teaching them? That Hitler was a joke and WW2 wasn't serious? I get the sentiment, but it really did the opposite of what it meant to. Rather than being a 'lets all laugh at Hitler because he was a nasty person' episode, it felt more like a 'let's just sweep the true nastiness of Hitler and the Nazis under the rug for the sake of a few cheap jokes' episode.

[@xBoringPerfectionx]

Idk, have you seen the movie JoJo Rabbit? It takes the piss out of Hitler and in doing so makes poignant remarks about racism and the danger of evil idiots.

[@chtholly8084]

@@xBoringPerfectionx That's easy for you to say as an adult, but would your average child see the movie and understand the subtext, or would they just see another silly comedy movie for them to giggle about? My point is that for those that haven't yet or are in the process of learning about the atrocities of WW2, media that humourises the people/events sends them mixed messages. And, whilst there aren't many of them left in the world, it's sort of an insult to the people who suffered under Hitler's actions/decisions. There are other ways of sticking it to Hitler and the Nazis without trivialising them.

[@xBoringPerfectionx]

@@chtholly8084 I do see your point. This is in no way a good episode and doesn't do a good job of it. And you're right, it's not appropriate for children. I was mainly pointing out that, done in the correct way, using comedy with evil people and acts can be good for social commentary.

[@chtholly8084]

@@xBoringPerfectionx An adult comedy about Hitler or whoever else is definitely something that can be done, as long as it's not utterly offensive. Like, for example, The Death of Stalin was done pretty well, and absolutely wasn't aimed at children so there's no worry of it sending mixed messages to the youth. I just think when it comes to kids entertainment we need to be a bit more careful about how we portray real historic evil people, and this episode wasn't careful at all. It was definitely a product of its time, when 'lol random' humour was the thing most kids were into.

[@xBoringPerfectionx]

@@chtholly8084 yes I completely agree

[@craytherlaygaming2852]

Especially especially bad for us Toaru fans No World War II no Awesome WWIII arc, and no badass Touma or the complex moral story around Aliester

[@simianurchin7630]

Ngl I’ve always enjoyed let kill Hitler I know it’s not the best episode by far but I’ve always just enjoyed watching it

[@simianurchin7630]

Also about the part where she knows how to fly the tardis she says “they showed me how” she didn’t just know and also she mentioned that before in a passing snarky comment “I learned from the best” the doctor then smiles and gets all proud to which she replies “you were busy that day” it makes sense she learned from the best which is the tardis and the doctor was busy dying that day

[@vladskiobi]

Moffat's biggest problem is his tendency to write one-handed.

[@greendiamond2604]

To be fair, isn't it way too early in hitler's timeline for his death?

[@shockfoxy921]

I entirely disagree that seeing her obtain the diary was unnecessary, I can see your point with everything else, but we HAD to see her get the diary

[@conorhamersleyspage8173]

Nice title Harbo 👍👍

[@gsam2021]

Sounds like Luke Rattigan from the Sontaran episode 22:30