Remember When Doctor Who Became Doctor GOO??

[@HarboWholmes]

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[@DokkaChapman]

I love how throughout the 2 parter the Doctor tells Amy to "breathe" because he knows full well what is happening, you don't really pick up on it until a rewatch!

[@NileSWPhotography]

Yeah it’s proper cool I just thought he was teasing her

[@The12thDimension.]

It may have a messy script, but I absolutely love the disturbing and creepy atmosphere and visuals that the show has rarely shown to this degree in a long time. It would be refreshing to see something like it again

[@johannvongenerico9487]

It would make sense that UNIT took the Martha clone from the sontarans and reverse engineered the tech to make the flesh

[@warrenny1168]

That would make sense this is like 100 or so years in the future right

[@Jaeden_Phoenix]

Honestly? I like this story, even if it's a bit of a mess in places. I just find it fun.

[@disappointedoptimist255]

One thing, I think the Doctor does know what he means when he says "you know which one", he's there specifically to learn about the flesh

[@newfanguyjackson4858]

Due to amy-100% he took them there with the solar tsunami as an excuse

[@mantonythe1st]

I too like it when the TARDIS is made to feel more like the Doctor's home, but it slightly annoys me that all of these scenes take place in the console room. The TARDIS is pretty much infinite, surely it has a room that makes way more sense to have a dart board in, like some kind of lounge, rather that the room dedicated to piloting the ship. I know they want to utilise the set to the maximum and keep building additional TARDIS sets to a minimum (especially if it's only going to be used for one scene, but to be fair they made a wardrobe room for Ten's TARDIS that was only used once. I just think it would be nicer to see more rooms of the TARDIS on a regular basis and it would make more sense too.

[@thespb0141]

The wardrobe in Xmas Invasion was actually just the console room redressed with CGI additions in the wide shots.

[@mantonythe1st]

@@thespb0141 Yeah I know that, but they at least made it look like a different room

[@brasstail]

It’s really interesting to see the D ranking of this, when I remember at the time this two-parter made the news because of how popular it was and it was incredibly hyped up.

[@apanapandottir205]

Great episode for Darvill tbh. Every time he actually gets to act he always shines.

[@pundahandz7403]

I always forget how Amy is just a ganger for the first half of the series, but I've realised now you can link the debate of whether her ganger was 'real' to The Girl Who Waited with the same dilemma but an older Amy. Really links the series together well thematically.

[@buttonsforbooks]

Listen, i know the cgi is terrible, but Jen still scares the absolute shit out of me

[@jonathanskinner7647]

That’s a very harsh ranking. Even if the story is a tad messy, the tone and overall feel of the episode is pretty unique. Not sure there’s another two parter with the same mood I get from it. At least a c for me. Plus some of the characters are pretty nice, they just don’t get too much development beyond that

[@Brogan_Balfour_Crescent]

I like to think the flesh are a result of the Ood being freed (or given the ending of the story vice versa) showing humanity won't change overnight, just like in real life when a group of people were freed from slavery another would be used.

[@jdg9825]

I was always of the interpretation that ganger jen staged the pile of wasted gangers by cloning herself over and over to manipulate Rory, cos she was acting so sly

[@mikewalker9057]

I really like this interpretation! it doesn’t make sense for the facility to waist the Flesh like that so it’s a really great concept that she lied to manipulate rory

[@jdg9825]

@@mikewalker9057 and always fit in with her making the extra ganger just for it to die, I figured maybe that took her a few tries

[@xAlecto]

Especially since they were only Jen gangers, no one else!

[@nl7567]

Orphan Black is an example of a show where the concepts in this episode are executed perfectly

[@captainkiwi77]

I mean, honestly, the hypocrisy of Jen making a ganger to die, and also the bosses ganger being aggressive, and a trouble starter, makes perfect sense since her human counterpart is already a dick, they’re both the problem. Also talking the ending out, is kinda nice for me, cause every episode feels like it has the same last 10 minute wrap up, which we’ve complained about before. Conflict resolution through talking is literally THE MOST ACCURATELY DOCTOR WHO ENDING.

[@captainkiwi77]

Definitely not worse than fear her, I can’t get behind that rating you gave it. It sets up concepts used by the series largest episodes, also doctor who is chalk full of bad cgi. This is a B maybe C episode for me. Cause I recognize it’s problems but I’m not gonna act like it’s even close to the worst doctor who episode.

[@MrDarthT]

I just wish that the Goo Doctor had been the explanation for how The Doctor survived the death at Lake Silencio. I was always annoyed that we didn't have enough info to guess the finale twist until after the mid-season break. I would have had the actual Doctor die, and the Goo Doctor replace him, and even use that to justify him having more regenerations, so we don't have to waste time on that with "The Name of The Doctor".

[@tomnorton4277]

How could goo regenerate? The ganger Doctor had the Doctor's mind and memories but regeneration is a biological process. He REMEMBERS all the past regenerations but he didn't actually experience them personally, so there's no indication that regeneration is possible for a ganger.

[@lilly4380]

@@tomnorton4277 after dropping the remaining ganger and human off at the company headquarters, the Doctor explains that “energy from the TARDIS” has stabilised the Gangers such that they’re now indistinguishable from humans. Presumably, that’s what would have happened if they’d been given enough time to stabilise themselves, too. So, Doctor Goo could’ve been stabilised the same way - with the Flesh duplicating his Time Lord biology. I’m sure there’s some handwave that can explain more regenerations, but it’d be a bit of a stretch. I’d have really liked a few duo Doctor episodes, though. Would’ve been a nice change of pace.

[@devonfarrington7431]

Alternatively have the ganger be the one who dies and the real doctor survives.

[@hunterkiller1440]

I remember watching the film US and I remembered this two parter. I was like holy crap, Doctor Who did this concept of evil doppelganger much better than Hollywood.

[@wavewingman5993]

Hey, fancy seeing you here. Used to be a big fan of your work.

[@globey1]

if it was made in hollywood the title would be the cum comes alive or some shit

[@schnazzyspersonal3078]

My absolute favorite part of these episodes was Rory for sure. It's so interesting to see him react to this situation where the flesh have human memories and are people. Because he's been in that exact situation as The Last Centurian. He has grappled with that same existential crisis. My favorite line is when he says that hes talked to and bonded with one of the Jennifer's, and the other one is human. It's so neat to see him have such a personal investment in the story. ESPECIALLY when it causes a rift between him and Amy because of her view of The Doctor and his Ganger. One of them is the "real" Doctor, even though they are both identical. She sees the Gangers as less real, while Rory sees them as equally human. I just really wish that Rory had a moment where he talks about his time as The Centurian. Where he talks about how he waited for Amy for 2000 years, and he remembers every second of it. He was plastic, but he was still Rory. Why can't she see that they're the same?

[@ozthebeeman]

If I ever face a clone of myself I'd immediately invite him to play some mk. Just like the doctor I'd just have fun with myself. Having another you not only makes it really cool but also it's literally perfect difficulty.

[@joeyunderwood]

i don’t think the flesh is what’s in the sontaran two-parter. the sontarans are a clone race so likely already have their own version of cloning.

[@TheKingMgee]

Both of Matthew Graham's stories have the same problem of throwing random events and characters at you, it's like when you getting blindsided with a random encounter in D&D or Pokemon. Jennifer in particular has a lot of randomness in her character, which I think really undermines the conflict in this episode. I do actually like Rory in this one, as he gets something to do, but it's a shame its not something that comes up again or explored in depth. The ending is a cool twist, but it really rides on you caring about Amy, who has once again regressed to series 5 Amy.

[@PlanetNateGaming]

I like the idea of the duplicate Doctor in The Rebel Flesh processing the Doctors regenerations making references to past Doctors, my favourite one being the Fourth Doctors line: Would you like a jellybaby (mostly because it gives me a little smile everytime i watch it)

[@npc_pigeon]

this episode was why i didn't watch the eleventh doctor's era at the time of airing. after david tennant, my little kid brain was upset and didnt give matt smith a chance. one day i saw doctor who was on on tv so i thought "ok fine why not" and i was greeted by creepy goo woman stretching her jaw. was the last episode i watched until i was older as it completely scared me away as a kid lol

[@BaronVladHarkonnen]

0:54 omg this gave me Vietnam flashbacks

[@squid9882]

Acid based death. No wonder their reaction was so neutral

[@thonk7611]

i- you little-

[@lazulenoc6863]

I wonder if there's a Doctor Who fanfiction story that ships ganger Jen and Dr. Lazarus.

[@starwarsgeek42]

I'm never able to watch this two-parter in a single sitting. I always either fall asleep at some point or I'm just physically unable to slog through it. It's a chore to watch these episodes.

[@awaywiththefaeries9464]

Out of interest, do you think that the twist in the S6 finale would have been better if the Doctor had been a flesh avatar?

[@mystic_mimi21]

Would be so good

[@mrdr0161]

No because then a living, breathing person was just sacrificed by the doctor

[@berniet1215]

Yes

[@clyne8835]

This episode gave me nightmares for WEEKS and made me scared of taking hot baths and showers. I remember it EXTREMELY vividly in my mind.

[@HiperPivociarz]

I wasn't expecting the Tiny Hitler hypothetical, but I am pleasantly surprised.

[@elberno4243]

I always thought, The Doctor being shot during "The Impossible Astronaut" should have been his Flesh avatar, rather than a shape shifting nanobot.

[@jeckjeck3119]

''I'm Voldemort now, Voldemorts are cool.''

[@lazulenoc6863]

I almost forgot that meme.

[@LukSter18998]

ahhh that one

[@arielmccarthy4892]

This was actually the 1st episode of doctor who I ever watched. It was randomly on one day and I happened by it.

[@jbcatz5]

The same year Big Finish also did a story where the ethics around programmable matter was a focus of the plot, in that instance used to generate environments and people based on client needs (in that case a crocodile like species using a copy of Renaissance Florence as target practice) as an income stream.

[@RoyalKingOliver]

What is it with Series 6 and the amount of clones and doubles with the Doctor and his companions? Tbh I’m all for it, the minisodes are spectacular. (Harbo pls at least mention them in your Series 6 review) Edit: I just realized that the minisodes Space/Time take place right before this 2 parter. The Night 4 part minisode is also a fun adventure that takes two separate stories (Black suit and white suit) and jumbles them up together shockingly cohesively

[@mrdr0161]

I've always seen it as a way to give hints to the idea that the Doctor who died on the beach was a fake or copy

[@Lego1upMushroom]

It's to give ways the doctor can get out of the death and to foreshadow how it's done

[@mrdr0161]

@ tf?

[@greghawkins59]

Definitely wouldn't consider this story boring or D tier, definitely was annoying how they were automatically antagonistic tho. Also definitely agree that the boss and her ganger should have survived instead of that background goon.

[@lucypreece7581]

As a lover of Politics, social and moral issues and history for me it is sometimes hard watching Doctor Who cus sometimes it's a hit with the message and themes and sometimes it's a miss. This two parter had so much potential but it's a big miss. It's very confusing and kind of makes my head hurt a little when I watch it. Disappointing but not horrific.

[@DoctorTardis100]

I've been waiting for this one for so LONG! Thanks for finally covering it so far. I love the more recent parallels between Jimmy and The Eleven.

[@projectalpha22_va]

While I appreciate a lot of what this review has to say, the perceived idea of this episode being lesser than Fear Her you seem to drop at the end is one thing I just can’t get behind. (Do want to heavily state this is a delve into my opinion, which is no more or less valid than yours!) This episode is sloppy, there’s absolutely no doubt about it, but the Rebel Flesh stands out to me as an absolutely fantastic gathering of stand-out moments that weren’t able to be tied together right. There is so much in this episode that if it were to be cut-down, rearranged, or given an extra once over that could have made this episode one of the best in Series 6, and while it’s not worth ranking an episode on what-if’s, it’s certainly worth pointing out that there are points in this episode that match some of the best think-pieces of Who’s run be it classic or modern and even surpass them. Having not seen this episode in years before coming back to it in late 2021, I had the opportunity to have watched all the episodes prior a matter of days apart, which really made me appreciate a few important things about this episode: - It’s the first time things really slow down this season. - It’s done as much as it can to get some fantastic character moments out of the main cast. - It re-solidifies the Doctor’s willingness to die for the right thing as a vital part of who he is. - It makes you, in an episode right before this part of the plot really kicks back into gear, ask a vital question that drives the season. Who is The Doctor, Doctor Who? This episode, in a lot of ways, works as a reminder of who our protagonist is by placing his biggest character traits front and center without calling heavy attention to it in a corny way. The Doctor is all about the value of life, and while the past few episodes in the series had dialed us back a bit, placing the Doctor as along for the ride or entangled in his own threads, it’s fitting that the episode before we watch everything go wrong in a way we’re taken out of this self-focus and reminded what the show is really about: the people he meets. A few of the moments that you indicated were boring to you were ones that I found as needed reinforcements of the 11th as himself. The moment where he gathers everyone together in an attempt to end this rising conflict early shows a diplomatic and forward-thinking Doctor which, as we see later, correctly understands that the best way to keep the factions from being torn apart is the reminder that the people on the other side are quite literally them. Jimmy specifically being most concerned about his son with the two versions bonding over that immediately is such an ingenious idea establishing to the viewer that despite the actions of everyone else to come, both sides could end up the exact way if the shoes are flipped. Speaking of shoes, another brilliant establishment of this rule comes from the constant of the Doctor. Rather than focusing on a similar conflict with one Doctor against the other, this moment of two doctors works as a brilliant indicator to the viewer that in no way shape or form are the Ganger “corrupting” or turning evil, everything the Ganger’s do in this situation are what their human counterparts would do in that circumstance. This continual reenforcement that there is no evil force at play is so extremely vital early on, as it sets the stage for the actions of Jennifer later on. Here’s a question for you: If Jennifer is no different from her human counterpart, then who is the villain of this episode? Technically, if you want to get grossly simplistic, the Ganger is the enemy of the episode. That being said, the Ganger is simply a clone of human nature. This is brilliant for a lot of reasons, but the one that always sticks out to me is that it allows humanity to be the enemy of an episode without overtly letting the watcher think itself out of justifications for her actions until it’s made it’s point. It is, in fact, trapping the viewer in the exact same mindset as those warring factions on the ship without allowing you the immediate right answer as given by the Doctor. Why is that? It’s because Rory is our main point of interaction. There are a LOT of moments set up like this in the episode that try to catch the viewer off-guard to make this point, and I think the sheer amount of them is a purposeful tactic by a writer, Matthew Graham, that knows a watching audience well enough to know that sometimes the best way to lead an audience is to lead their focus elsewhere to catch them off-guard in plain sight. Having written for soaps in the past, it makes a lot of sense that Graham would take this approach, he’s always writing for an audience that is there for the human interaction, meaning pulling off a real twist that doesn’t feel like it’s come pulled out of an ass relies on making the audience think they see the next step clearly. “Of course the Doctor’s shoes are switched”, “Of course Jimmy’s Ganger is going to be the one who lives through this”, “Of course Gangers and Humans are equal” we all say while actively separating ourselves from Jennifer because “she’s a monster that since she doesn’t look like us must be evil and far beyond what any human would do in this situation.” While it’s not impossible to pick up, having the moments with her and Rory more framed as “down-time moments” rather than integral to the entire point of the narrative misdirects us until it’s far too late for the viewer to have corrected course and realized that these events weren’t the A and B-Plot, but really the A1 and A2 Plot. Because of this the Doctor’s words of warning will not pass over the gap for some viewers, allowing them to separate and antagonize Jennifer as that “unnatural creature” just like all the humans at the start. It’s a killer narrative choice that functions so well that it, for me, makes this episode a high C. It’s still incredibly messy, but there are so many well placed moments of logic and reasoning, a key element of John Carpenter’s The Thing which not even that movie’s sequel/prequel did to nearly this layered degree, that gives this imitation that impressive level of competency through its understanding of both it’s sources and Who’s audience which makes me wish it was given just a bit more time in the oven to polish.

[@ladrok97]

I moslty liked this episode for two things 1. After rewatch we clearly see that it was one of few trips which was done on Doctor's behalf (mostly of those trips are companions telling us how amazing doctor can be as a guide) - he was thinking Amy is flesh at the end of previous episode, so he went to the time flesh was created as specie (or was started to be known more) 2. We see Doctor trying to solve the problem without him going "who the hell is enemy?!" - In most episodes of "New" doctor who 2/3 of lenght is Doctor figuring who is enemy, in this two parter he knew very well what can happen, he was willing to take this trip just to be sure about his companion "status"

[@catdamon3534]

You know what, this is the best HW video title yet

[@108asf]

Yep I have the same problem with this episode. It makes no sense that the doctor would kill amy's clone just like that

[@magoo9866]

yeah I thought the same, other than to make the cliffhanger more impactful. I think the scene makes it seem like killing amy's clone forces the real amy to wake up, but we saw throughout the episode they can be awake together

[@xAlecto]

@@magoo9866 I thought they only could be awake together due to the whole solar storm issue causing a malfunction. Otherwise they had to be piloted? So stands to reason that Amy's ganger also had to be piloted, right?

[@altinaykor364]

yep, especially since he's the exact same guy who kept bragging about how much gangers also do have the right to live, just as much as humans. and even give little Adam his fake Dad. then scare both Amy and Rory like that by the end, because she's not the real Amy?

[@zachanikwano]

5:06 Now I have to rewatch the whole "debate" again, thanks for reminding me of this lol

[@CarbonKrazie]

The did actually know which critical system he was looking for, it was the whole reason why he was there

[@benchilds2247]

I quite liked it tbh, especially the doctor switch

[@jackcox6276]

The doctor: they are human too Also the doctor: kills them all anyway including the Amy one...

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

And the award for the most eye-catching video title of the week is...

[@harrisonkline8681]

I think I would like these episodes more and they would be appreciated more if the Doctor killed in the beginning and end of the season turned out to be the ganger Doctor resurrected. This would help solidify that the gangers were real people not just copies while also having the Doctor flip the Silence’s own plan against him with the fake Amy and fake baby in place of the real ones. Plus the Doctor hinted at the end of the episode that the ganger Doctor could come back so it would of paid that off too

[@ShadowKamehameha32]

Honestly I wonder why they *DIDN'T* do that...

[@obi501]

@@ShadowKamehameha32 yeah now I hear this... I can't go back

[@altinaykor364]

I honestly had the same theory while watching the episode. turns out I was being too good on them

[@thatginger2457]

what an amazing title pun

[@OMARA.OFFICIAL]

We named a single “The Rebel Flesh” based off this DW story. I loved it best of series 6 after “doctors wife”

[@SillySodaLofi]

Oneyplays reference in a Harbo Wholmes video? Love it!

[@zorik6053]

Huh, I thought I remembered every episode of DW, but I have no memory of these two

[@jbcatz5]

The idea of an equaliser, something to break down the boundaries of established power dynamics, is a great way to build drama. The humans and the Gangers now on the same footing equally believing they have a chance at existence. The bases under siege where the person in charge suddenly has the same level of influence as the janitor (in Voyage of the Damned the rich guy relying on the competition winners and vice versa for example). There’s also the moral and ethical dilemma of what makes someone deserving of life. Does an accidental, unplanned and complete buck against the system automatically fall into not worthy like how Nobodies are treated? Or should this spark of life be nurtured and given the chance to grow as an individual?

[@Lord_Flash94]

I never expected a Harbo Who vid/ Oneyplays crossover. If you had a tiny clone of Davros in your hand would you kill him?

[@write.31]

These epsiodes are the best two parters in doctor who history. This is a masterpiece of an episodes

[@GuiltlessGear]

i fucking love this story, especially when 11 pulls the old switcheroo on amy.

[@NileSWPhotography]

Having watched this episode again after watching your review I actually really really enjoyed it. Before I found it very boring and mediocre and not worthy of a two parter. Now that I understand WHY 11 went there and his motives and the little hints that he knows Amy’s a ganger is really cool. I enjoyed it.

[@oldoldmeme]

I really have to commend these titles

[@Gabby1505]

Same

[@AlexandraEleucinia]

My cousin Julian Simpson directed this two parter

[@Cheesecake_666]

That's so cool. What did he think of it?

[@AlexandraEleucinia]

@@Cheesecake_666 he didn't really enjoy it, spending weeks in a cold Welsh castle with a twisted ankle dealing with the BBC being typically irritating. He hasn't worked with the BBC since 😂

[@Cheesecake_666]

@@AlexandraEleucinia sorry to hear that but typical of the BBC like you said. Seriously no wonder no one decent ends up wanting to work with them now. Lol

[@Warforged117]

Is this the same Julian Simpson who writes the Lovecraft Investigations?

[@AlexandraEleucinia]

@@Warforged117 yes it is.

[@HiperPivociarz]

Wait a moment... why wasn't Amy's ganger made sentient like the other ones?

[@bmvthemoviefanatic7282]

I was so interested in this review, cause this has always been one of my LEAST favorites of the Smith era. I'm not sure if that's a hot take, but frankly, I prefer to Fear Her over this as Harbo said, despite this two-parter exploring cloning, one of my favorite sci-fy concepts. However, after rewatching, I think I know: I just personally HATE all the characters! Both Cleaves just come across as unlikeable, with the main Cleaves just being a psychopath IMO. Buzzer and Dicken have no character. Jimmy's the closest thing we have to a sympathetic character, but only due to his son, and I still think there isn't enough debate over how messed up it is that the real Jimmy DIED and is replaced like nothing. Heck, even Rory is acting weird IMO. And don't get me started on Jen. They give her all these emotional scenes, but in the end, she comes across as soooo one-dimensionally evil! None of this is to diss the actors, who are all great, but I just think all these characters actively want to kill each other with only the Doctor seeming like he wants peace. It just makes me hope all of these melt! Sorry, don't complain too often, but wanted to share my view, and honestly, I want someone to refute it, cause I want to share in people's love in this episode. I just REALLY don't like it. Star Wars TCW explores clones better. HOWEVER, the Amy reveal is cool, tho 😅, but did we need a boring two-parter to get it? D Rank Indeed.

[@unionjakass6589]

Ngl this is one of my favourites, I recently rewatched it and it was terrifying to me

[@DanTheMan2150AD]

They really wasted Mark Bonnar in this story.

[@valentinbomlander7262]

Omg, he remembers Oblivion!!! Now I‘m a fan xD

[@DriverHenryWho3245]

Ah yes, you teased the title on Discord, and now it has become a thing. Fantastic!

[@AinsleyTheBard]

These were my favorite pair of episodes! My feelings

[@BarioIDL]

if they worry about the suit being damaged, they should use doppel and go commando

[@hernerwerzog9700]

Still here. And your videos are top quality as always.

[@ms.antithesis]

17:20 i'd prolly give them a hug lol, then maybe have a conversation with them, about life and stuff, i have this bad tendency to be a contrarian and/or play devils advocate so i'd maybe even test myself by purposely taking the opposite side to them in a debate. would prolly be very fun.

[@GraceMellody]

I ADORE this two parter. The revelation is so worth it for me

[@roughsketch_07]

I feel like the eleventh Doctor is the seventh Doctor done right.

[@CHRONOFIEND_]

What does this mean?

[@roughsketch_07]

@@CHRONOFIEND_ The seventh doctor was supposed to be super OP and cool, but was just really boring.

[@sillyclownlady]

Broooo, I remember this episode! It was a super cool concept

[@spacereviewer]

Jimmy just regenerated was a Great reference

[@PlanetNateGaming]

Title at the time of typing this comment: Remember When Doctor Who Became Doctor GOO?? Harbo loves to change the titles of his videos ,I remember the one about Sontarans being baked potatoes LOL

[@williehughes1690]

The flesh in new earth looking back on it wasn't cloned nessaseraly so much as have random human DNA remixed and grow humans from the remixed DNA kinda like the loom's on Galafray. At least that's my impression.

[@TheAnnaisHere]

10:37 wait, what?

[@DoctorTardis100]

Mark Bonnar, Jimmy's actor, was cast as The Eleven; A Time Lord with regenerative dissonance. Big Finish does awesome work to give actors innovative roles.

[@nicocarrero5953]

Ganger Doctor looks like Odo from Star Trek: DS9 went to a Marilyn Manson concert.

[@mathieuleader8601]

it would have been better if the Gangers where a different type of Nestenes/Autons

[@raptyrn1290]

SOMA is an excellent clone story. One of my favourites!

[@teddyboucher1848]

Even if it isn't a great episode it will always be one of my favourites

[@theentity5201]

I always thought the rebel flesh/almost people was going to be the cyberman story of season 6, definitely sounded like one, but frick we got an interesting cameo the next story and the less said about closing time the better

[@jmace2424]

Clones are popular because you can get multiple characters for the price of one actor 🤣 💰

[@geraldd9738]

All I have to say is indeed. Keep up the good work!

[@eelsemaj99]

i’ve always quite liked this story tbh I agree with all the positives you mentioned, but don’t mind the pacing and can forgive the more garbled bits.

[@kurtwagner350]

I fundamentally disagree with the shows intended takeaway that gangers are just as real. For starters having the memories and feelings of someone does not mean you experienced those things. Second the gangers despite being perfect clones do seem at least to act differently and more violent, probably because they were born of a vengeful goo and remember they were indeed clones, also calling into question if they are perfect copies. The gangers are the first to take up arms and decide on the them or is premise significantly quicker then the real humans (even if you want to blame that on cleaves it’s still undeniable her ganger came to that conclusion quicker). Not to mention the Jen copy is clearly acting very different from the real version, acting extremely violent, lying and becoming the main antagonist by the end (again because she’s made from a vengeful goo with memories of being a clone). Lastly they are shown throughout to not be stable enough to hold their form, the episode offhandedly says the Tardis fixed it for them but without the doctors (and writers) intervention they would not of been able to survive on their own as individuals. Very simply they are not the same people and are poor clones, two people could not live the same life and the show neatly sweeps this problem under the rug by having only one of each person by the end. Maybe the doctor could’ve stabilized them and given them different memories and identities, but they never broach this and so as written these specific gangers are really the only ones that wouldn’t have problems.

[@tesseract5569]

4:23 Except The Doctor does know what she's talking about. Him being here wasn't an accident. It's even explicitly stated in the story. He needed to learn about the Flesh because he knows Amy is one

[@GeorgeMarionerd]

I remember really not enjoying this two parter. I barely remembered the story, but I just hated the overall feel and vibe of it. It felt very long. Not sure what it was I disliked so much, maybe the look of the environment, but I didn't have fun with it.

Definitely a missed opportunity to have two Amy Ponds, now if the episode had THAT I wouldn't be able to say a bad thing about it... In fact if this flesh technology is self conscious rather than piloted I could have an entire flesh harem! And this has the return of pregnant Amy, the rebel flesh isn't the only "goo" around when I'm watching this episode...

[@ssmaamam]

This episode gave me fucking nightmares lol

[@azraelvrykolakas157]

I think this episode was one of the cleanest from that entire season. The one where Nixon's head had a body for some reason really set the precedence for episodes that feel like an amateur novelist is giving in to self gratification at the cost of all semblance of structure and reason... As if that threshold hadn't been crossed already with what if a second box turns the tardis into a light switch for the entire universe. Life in plastic it's fantastic parts 1 and 2 were one of the most grounded and well structured episodes of this intire season and the bathroom scene is reminiscent of Beetlejuice now that I mention it I think the whole humans being the obnoxious ones to the cast offs is pretty parallel to that aswell. Plus religious concepts being reinterpreted in a alien and industrialized manner. Maybe if you say red wooly boots three times you can summon her There's alot happening at once but it's manageable like setting items to maximum on super smash brothers. The others feel like definitive structure is sidelined in favor of what emotion your supposed to have at that moment to such a degree that no character choices seam to have strategical relevance as outcomes are unrelated or mystical in nature. The one with the dolls is definitely the worst you mention fear her which is a tooth hanging on by a thread of skin as far as episodes go but it just barely works and doing the same thing but it's a boy and a doll house was entirely unnecessary to begin with because been there done that but the resolution dosen't even feel earned. I'd go as far as to compare the rebel cheese and the mozzarella people to the Satan pit and the impossible planet not that it's as good but it's similar in overall structure maybe its more like the macra terror. Ending is an unnecessary curveball and we don't get any updates later on regarding the social thing that implies timeline consequences. That curveball thing permeates the season though so I wouldn't hold this episode responsible.

[@sbi168]

Fantastic episode. Love it.

[@Noxfallen]

Why would a time machine have downtime? like it's a whole time machine... as soon as it disappears it should just reappear wherever it was going

[@lawrencelopez9839]

it's a time and space machine, it still needs to travel to other planets and galaxies.

[@rat-of-pain]

3:15 Muse fan Harbo??????

[@DoctorSween]

Which song is played in the episode? I’m an American fan of both the band and the Doctor that cannot easily access episodes.

[@rat-of-pain]

@DoctorSween I'm pretty sure it was supermassive black hole, they were listening to it in the tardis

[@OverlyPositiveFanboy]

I would be all for Ganger rights if I was living in this time, but then again, I am a clone myself (or am I the original?).

[@blooocki]

Still better then the new series

[@chezzyg8659]

I'm a twin and my brother convinced my youngest neice that I'm a ganger cos I'm younger. I get why the og ppl have issues though cos imagine 2 ppl claiming they're your dad. We're also a jealous species and if any1 tried 2 claim my kids I'd take issue let alone my own clone.

[@RoboDoesEdits]

y u change the thumbnail?

[@diogenese7054]

Gotta love the Voldemort clones. 😉

[@leacwm]

I love this one actually

[@johnlochness]

I think the biggest problem with this story is that non of the characters are particularly engaging or even likeable.

[@mayotango1317]

Like in the real world.