Hard Cast vs Hollow Point AMMO!....Snub Nose Self Defense!

[@CarolinaRimfire]

Good Lord... Hard cast 38 putting up Armscor 10mm numbers!

[@ToolsandTargets]

🤣🤣🤣 Y'all need to quit bullying that Armscor!🤣🤣🤣

[@alexskillz45]

@@ToolsandTargets I bought armscor once for both 9mm and 45acp. Biggest regret, I thought I knew what dirty ammo was. Nothing jams my glock, but it jammed a SW Shield Plus. 5 rounds and my WML was totally sooted and unusable.

[@JohnLloydScharf]

@@ToolsandTargets I think these rounds performed as expected.

[@ToolsandTargets]

@@JohnLloydScharf Yessir😎👍

[@billrowan1957]

🤐

[@kenibnanak5554]

Back in the day as a young Federal Police I was issued US Military FMJ ammo for my issued .38 Police Positive. A lot of that ammo had 1950s head stamps and it had less ooomph than our wadcutter practice ammo (nastier smoke too). A .32 or .380 acp was probably more effective and some of our investigators did have those, but Detective Specials were a much more common issue. Later as those ammo stocks dried up we transitioned to .38 lead ball. In 79 I had the experience of watching one officer at Ft, Chaffee put 5 rounds into the torso of a detainee charging him with a bloody knife (he had been stabbing someone when the officer arrived). It was 5 shots because back then (1979) many of us were required to carry with the chamber empty. The man did drop the knife, but he also stiff armed the officer and knocked him down and fled. 3 days later we got a call about a man inside a residence barracks having trouble breathing. Lo and behold there was the gun shot stabbing suspect. A lung had finally collapsed. If an artery isn't struck to force the blood out the wounds tended to self seal around the round nose bullet track. The powers recognized the problem and standard velocity 158 gr. lead SWC became the new standard (along with loading all 6 chambers). The shock value (if it exists) was about the same, but bleeding out or collapsing of lungs happened a lot sooner due to the cookie cutter holes that didn't close up. A few years later by order of the DoJ and the Treasury we all transitioned to the US Treasury +P+ 125 gr. JHP and all of the Colts were retired (and torched) because the Colts tended to burst their cylinders with that +P+ round and S&W M15 or 19 became the new standard (later 64 and 65). I didn't 1st person witness any shootings specifically myself with that round, but from others who did I heard the fast little JHPs did a little better than did the SWCs but sometimes people still had enough fight left in them to pull their own trigger a few times. 12 gauge at point blank into the sternum is really the only one shot to the torso instant fight stopper I have seen. Messy too. Sometime around 1989 we all transitioned to 9mm Berettas and Sigs, but that is a different topic.

[@timt8029]

Thank you for that history.

[@jimnagel5611]

BOUT 15 YEARS AGO -- MIDDLE OF WINTER - 300 LB BAD GUY WRAPPED UP IN FULL WINTER GEAR -- LONG HANDLES -SHEEPHERDER COAT ETC - WALKS IN STORE AT NIGHT & TAKES A 38 125 CENTER MASS - TAKES THE GUN AWAY & KILLS CASHIER -- WOUND UP IN HOSPITAL 2 DAYS LATER BUT CASHIER STILL DEAD -- I NOW CARRY MY OWN LOAD - 145 GR KEITH STYLE HARD CAST AT WARM +P LEVELS -- 125 GR ONLY PENETRATED 7 INCHES BECAUSE OF ALL THE CLOTHING -- I HAVE LITTLE DOUBT THE HARD CAST WOULD HAVE PENETRATED A LOT FURTHER -- DONT KNOW IF IT WOULD HAVE CHANGED THINGS BUT I BECAME A TRUE BELIEVE IN ONE HOLE IN ONE HOLE OUT FROM THEN ON

[@828enigma6]

Advantage to hard cast flat nose is if it strikes bone, it will punch through it or take a divot out rather than skipping off as a soft softnose would. Or if hitting a blood vessel, it'll take a bite out of it rather than pushing it aside as a round nose would. Its going fast enough to have significant hydraulic effect on tissue as well.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Very true. It's some mean stuff.

[@mdubb4855]

Bear? Anyone know how it compares to 9mm bear rounds?

[@Wildwestwrangler]

Better than 9mm bear.​@@mdubb4855

[@timt8029]

​@mdubb4855 I would say shot for shot, it would be better in my opinion.

[@MegaAppleshit]

​@@mdubb4855 Probably about the same, the 38 is a bit heavier than 9mm bear loads so it may be better at punching bone.

[@timrobinson6573]

Tools, Remington 158 grain +P SWCHP. Remington uses a slightly softer lead than other 38 SWCHP and they will expand out of a 2" 38 Special

[@Mbartel500]

Holy Crap!! I have never seen that kind of power from a 2” .38 special. That hard cast load is a freakin' sledgehammer. Good for stopping……dump trucks?? The gold dot load would be perfect for human threats. Just WOW👍👍👍

[@ToolsandTargets]

😂 I was pretty surprised myself. I thought well, at least if the Taurus blows up on camera, it'll get plenty of views!🤣🤣🤣

[@Thousand_yard_King]

Back in the 1970s, the police of the United States gave up on the 38 special because it just didn't have the knockdown power needed to stop bad guys, but with this ammo, it makes the 38 special a viable cartridge once again

[@ToolsandTargets]

😎👍

[@robaldridge6505]

in the 70s 'dept.loads'were mostly 158RN, total shit round, detectives knew better and carried 200grn. loads.. the Super Police load is a 100% stopper with contact shots and thats what you NEED in some places to not wind up in jail. a target (bad guy)100 feet away is not a 100% threat.... a 3 inch J or K frame with 200 grain RN is a GREAT set up for 38 special..

[@BlakeHouse-j3u]

Well, just a little off on the timeline. Yes , .357 mag was around , and more than zero hig bores , but we're talking numbers with most common. What Did happen in the '70s was transition away from RNL to more effective bullet designs , usually in conjunction with +P . In the Late Revolver Era , most common was 158 ( all lead ) HP , followed by the " Treasury Load " 110 gr +P+ JHP . Overall the two were reasonably comparable in effectiveness. In my area it was about 2/3 158 LHP , 1/3 Treasury . Whichever one an agency went with , they tended to stick with for the remainder of the Revolver Era , until the switch to Wondernines in the '80s .

[@kenibnanak5554]

@@robaldridge6505 I was still .38 Special as my duty weapon until 1990 when we went Sig 228. IMO the best non-+P+ .38 round I had seen until then were the 158 gr. +P SWCHP rounds, except they had to be kept under 1100 FPS to avoid barrel leading. The next best was a jacketed 125 gr. SWC HP Speer offered for reloaders. However for maximum potential you needed a magnum cylinder on the gun.. About 12 gr, of 2400 if my memory is right.

[@hoffpbass]

That hardcast is awesome. Might be the most awesome 38spl round I've seen you test. I just like the bone crunching penetration I guess.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Big power from this little revolver.😎👍

[@steelpunisher6944]

Nice! That’s some good performance from a 2” snubby! A great carry round and a great woods round. This test was a win/win. You could definitely see the recoil difference with the Keith bullet, they were moving for sure. Great test as always my friend 👍🇺🇸

[@ToolsandTargets]

It had the Taurus blowing smoke!😤😤😤

[@jarrettmoore6237]

Thus the 257 magnum was born 😆

[@patrickkinney4998]

In the winter, when people wear thermals, a couple sweat shirts, a heavy coat.... I'll take the hard cast I think.

[@texasrex2222]

Some people never give .38 special enough credit! That's some amazing power and performance from a snubby like that. It may be an older cartridge, but some modern loadings perform better than a lot of other calibers. I wouldn't feel under-prepared carrying that 856 with those hard casts while camping or out in the wild.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Agreed. These things put most 9mm I've tested to shame.😆

[@BlakeHouse-j3u]

These Underwoods pretty much recreate the original. 38-44 loads .

[@timt8029]

​@@BlakeHouse-j3uSpot on only with more sane pressures.

[@Nutty.357]

Mercy, had to rewind to make sure this was 38spcl tests lol! Both impressive rounds and both have their own application! Awesome! 👍

[@ToolsandTargets]

😂😂😂

[@ronaldbarnes8302]

The speed on the hard cast was awesome! The GD performed nicely for 2 legged critters, and the hard cast would work great for 4 legged ones. To bad Underwood isn’t loading the GD’s anymore. Thanks for the review Tools!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Agreed. Both great rounds.😎👍

[@TightwadTodd]

Id say the hard cast, would work fine for 2 legged critters as well, if you are out where the 4 legged are as well. In town, you may want the GD or hollow point. Im not loading 2 different type rounds in a cylinder so, you can choose, between town or country load for the best results.

[@doghousedon1]

Now that you see what a hard cast bullet can do, try shooting a hard cast SWC through your 9. A 124 going 1200+ fps is a nasty nasty. Thanks muchly for the vid.

[@blackpowderpiper5711]

I took short barrel expansion out of the equation years ago. I carry a .38 Special J frame quite a bit and have been loading it with Underwood hard cast full diameter wadcutters. Penetration is very important to me and hard cast projectiles with a wide meplat can create some devastating wound tracks while ensuring adequate/deep penetration. For those who wring their hands in fear of overpenetration, I can only assume that they are never going to miss their target. A bullet that misses its mark is far more dangerous to innocent bystanders. On the other hand, a bullet that does not penetrate deeply enough to reach vital anatomy is dangerous to me! What if your attacker is 300+ pounds, is wearing a heavy coat and is turned broadside to you? Penetration is key. I'm a new subscriber and I'm enjoying your presentations. Keep up the good work.

[@haroldhatcher1239]

That’s a good test. Good performance from both. I like to reload the 158gr hard cast semi-wadcutter to about 800 fps. 38 special velocity. Thank You for another great video Tools.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. These were rollin.

[@Dwayne7834]

The gold dot definitely a good round for the 38 . The hard cast fooled me by going all the way through. Thanks for the video and test.

[@ToolsandTargets]

They've got some horsepower to em.😎👍

[@azazelakira12]

Nice hard led seed, well know I know that a 38 special +P gold dot is the way to go!

[@ToolsandTargets]

💥🐻💥

[@miker9043]

Underwood puts out some amazing ammo ! those hard cast bullets are crazy ! ill be on the lookout for the 38 special with gold dots ! thanks brother for another great video !

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. Wish I would have bought more of em now.😆

[@CL-ty6wp]

One of the only companies loading to spec and not underloading.

[@mkshffr4936]

The beauty of it is that you can reload with hard cast very cheaply.

[@sinisterthoughts2896]

both did amazing. that 125 is going very fast for a 2 inch 38, that 158 is going scary fast for it! that penetration was crazy!

[@michaelschaffer9165]

I like that Gold Dot 38 load a lot. That's my summertime carry load with Critical Defense 110 +P as backup. Those are both good stuff.

[@Paladin1873]

Elmer would be proud of that hard cast performance.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Yessir.😎👍

[@Paladin1873]

@@komodo420. No, I think he invented heavy recoil.

[@rsbreeze]

Exceptional performance for ammo and snubby. That's why hard cast is the best bear round!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Definitely some potent stuff!

[@danielleclare2938]

Hardcast .38 is a great military round. And on predators through the brush. Can even shoot through small trees and still be lethal. SD rounds are specific to non over penetration but for predator control big lead = big dead. Even from a snubbie! Thanks for the show.

[@ToolsandTargets]

They're definitely packin a punch.😎👊

[@thorshammer5134]

This is the load I carry. Bought a ton on sale, have half in the lipstick tip and half in the new black coating. I don’t think the recoil is to bad and they are very versatile for edc to woods carry.

[@jeffreybean5363]

Another Awesome Ammo test Tools! I'll have to look for some of those Underwood rounds for my dad's 38 special Taurus 856 🇺🇸👍

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. Perfect performance.😎👍

[@kathygates8845]

GREAT VIDEO TOOL ... !!!!!!!! THAT CAST WAS A SURPRISE .... !!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND $$$ DOUBLE .. G.. ... !!!!!!!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. They were packin some heat.😎👍

[@shanepitzer4126]

Excellent test! Don't underestimate the 38 Special snubby with the right ammo.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Yessir.😎👍

[@olskool3967]

Don't underestimate the 38 Special with any ammo!

[@FnLn55]

@@olskool3967 ... words to live by.

[@josephpacchetti5997]

As a defensive expanding round, Gold Dots are my 2nd choice, and you already know my 1st choice, HSTs, Thanks my friend. 👍🇺🇲

[@ToolsandTargets]

Great stuff.😎👊

[@conro7003]

That gold dot is perfect, even through a clothing barrier! Best 38 special hollow point I’ve seen. I need to find a couple before they’re all gone. Rn I can’t find any good hollow points and I’ve seen videos testing 158 g lrn and it gets good penetration but doesn’t over penetrate by fbi standards, believe it or not, so that’s what I’ve been running. It’s not the wound cavity of a hollow point like this, though. It’s a shame they aren’t making these anymore. :(

[@ToolsandTargets]

Yeah, I hated to hear they weren't gonna load gold dots anymore.

[@timothyprice9064]

These new rounds are giving old firearms all sorts of new life.

[@Shannon_Lacey]

Try the specifically for “compact handguns” labeled on the box, Remington Golden Saber .38 Special +P 125 grain

[@lanedexter6303]

Wow, amazing comparison! Based on my handloading experience years ago, I wonder if that Underwood 158 is a bit hotter than SAAMI +P. Over 1100 out of 2” is approaching magnum territory.👍

[@ToolsandTargets]

I expected spicy, but these things were one-chip challenge level spicy.😂

[@HyksosKhamudi]

@@ToolsandTargets the 1 chip isn't hot its just nasty tasting lol

[@gk5891]

Maybe .38-44 HV.

[@lanedexter6303]

@@gk5891 yep, I think it’s in that ballpark. Trying to imagine .38-44 loads today, and liability lawyers having fits. 😉

[@vladboy1]

Well the underwood is about as hot as you can go before reaching magnum performance levels and you have no idea what mags can do

[@magnum_0710]

I like the Double Tap 38+p hard cast better, not nearly as hot as the Underwood or Buffalo Bore stuff but still has good velocity

[@carlosmorris4510]

Wow... I have both of these rounds! Excellent ammo from Underwood Ammo.

[@ToolsandTargets]

They load some good stuff.😎👍

[@nexcpu]

Thanks for this video. Really love these gel tests. Made me really rethink the loads i've been using in my 442.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate that.😎👍

[@scarifrougeone7225]

Good test, you definitely got some good stubby nose short barrel results on the hollow points. I could tell on the those hard case ammo were loaded hotter. Some noticeable difference there. Thanks for sharing be safe. 😎👊🏼😎

[@ToolsandTargets]

Yessir, the hardcast were blowin smoke!

[@hyltonswemmer4824]

very impressive and interesting video my man..........thanks........this flies in the face of the critics who say 38spl is toothless ! great calibre and a great snubbie too........

[@YellowHammer26]

👍👍two good performing rounds for different purposes. Thanks Tools

[@ToolsandTargets]

Yep. Appreciate ya!

[@markn.1473]

Thank you, I have been looking for these 2 comparisons for years

[@ToolsandTargets]

Some good stuff.😎👍

[@genegoodwin8925]

I've watched a couple of your videos now and I like them so I subscribed. You always seem so excited no matter what you are doing and your excitement makes your videos more interesting than a lot of others. Thanks for being you.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Really appreciate that! Thanks for all the support.😎👍

[@KD-lb9bg]

Thanks for another excellent round of Jelly Time testing. I have and like both of these loads a great deal for different purposes.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. Some great stuff.😎👍

[@garyjacobsen5034]

Great videos, thank you!!

[@olskool3967]

back in the early 80s i loaded my daddy some 38s for his model 15 S&W they were 140gr. speer HP with 8.4gr. of blue dot powder, he had to defend his home and my mom from a drug crazed 240lb man who broke in one night and was tearing up the house and chasing them with a club! dad shot him in the upper leg, he said the man stopped cold, then wobbled, then collapsed! then went to screaming! never underestimate a 38, one is on my side right now!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Yessir!😎👍

[@randyhavard6084]

It's sad that some companies can't even get there 357 Magnum up to those speeds as the 158 gr

[@timshelley8635]

Great test! Both were impressive for different reasons, they performed just like they were designed for.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. Good stuff for sure.😎👍

[@marcthomas2482]

Nice test Tools! Impressive speed on those hard cast!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. I was pretty surprised by those from just a 2" barrel. The Taurus got a workout.😆

[@Bob-lq9ys]

Great test and you called it right on the nose , thanks for sharing

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir.😎👍

[@christopherbishop4927]

Superior snubie rounds, thanks Tools. Dangerous Game rounds through a 2" wow.....38spc to boot🤯

[@ToolsandTargets]

Surprised me!

[@d2nasty696]

Finally, some tests on youtube with the 856 snubby!

[@matthewrobinson4323]

"too much for two-legged threats" ? Why? If you eliminate the threat with only one round, that seems like an excellent idea to me.

[@timt8029]

Ive shot some of those hardcast though about a nine inch log from a 4 inch barrel. You can tell its some potent stuff. I dont know of a 9mm load that can match it.

[@choppermike3329]

Great test and excellent performance for both. Thanks Tools!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir.😎👊

[@timparkhurst8661]

Thanks for bringing the toys out.

[@ToolsandTargets]

😎👍

[@anangryranger]

Very impressive test! 👍 Always did like cast bullets... Been loading my own for well over a half century. Have dozens of moulds in various design. My personal favorite for a light 38 (like a 3" 856UL) is the original SWC designed in 1904, (Ideal #360271). A short nosed 150gr. that seats deep in the case. Loaded within standard 38Spl pressure, it's leaving the 3" at 1,050fps. And it's not a +P. Very accurate and ripped a fair size hole in the last coyote I plugged that run my woods where I live.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Nice. These cast rounds were definitely hot.

[@charlesmorgan1879]

Haven't been very interested in a .38 unless I get a .357 mag , but those ammo's give me a little more thought in that direction bc there's pretty good prices on the tools ! Another great test sir !

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. Makes me wanna retest the Speer factory Gold Dot .38 through the cloth to see what they do.

[@hoffpbass]

I know what you mean about revolver prices. Insane. But I saw a Taurus 38spl under $400 the other day online and thought it might be a deal. But I have my eyes on something else.

[@hoffpbass]

@@ToolsandTargets putting these Underwood Dots up against HSTs would be cool to see.

[@thomaspalmer7900]

I have felt the same way!!! I carry a Taurus 605 .357 magnum & it’s a battle for me to choose between loading .357 magnum or .38 +P for PD. At the present time i have Remington HTP 125 grain SJHP .357 magnum loaded for EDC. I have read a lot of fantastic reviews on the HTP .357 ammo. Apparently the 125 grain works the best in the .357 magnum. With that being said I have shot 158 grain in my 605 & it’s way to much recoil!!! On the other hand I have found the 125 grain .357 magnum to be a lot less recoil & better control follow up shots. Is .357 magnum a better choice over .38 +P? I have not shot any .38 +P ammo yet to make a fair honest opinion!! I certainly would not want to ever get shot with .38 +P or .357 magnum out of a snub nose revolver!!!!

[@DisgustedGenXr]

I was watching a video about the 38 special and the reason that casing is so huge it’s because it was developed a black powder and they had to make that casing longer to be able to fit enough powder to make the round effective so there is plenty a room with today’s powder to make that then go just as fast as you want I haven’t really looked up at a low data to see what the chamber pressure is on those but that’s why the casing is so long on that round

[@ToolsandTargets]

I think they filled these hardcast to the top!😂😂😂

[@Adam-nv9zo]

Another great test. Both rounds performed amazingly 👏

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir.😎👍

[@Life_Is_Torture0000]

For social problems, I carry Buffalo Bore 158 gr +p soft lead hollow points. The recoil is brutal in a snubby.

[@ToolsandTargets]

That'll do the trick.😎👍

[@Tyanmax99]

Great tests Tools. You can see why those hard casts are so popular in 10MM when in Bear country.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir.💥🐻💥

[@JJ_SDWR]

Great test tools, I have that hard cast candy red ammo as well, I knew it was loaded hot but wow.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Spicy!🌶🌶🌶

[@tartrek87]

Thanks for a great video, I was always curious how a SWC would perform in a gel test. I would like to see a gel test with a 45ACP 200 gr. SWC, they cut a good size hole.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. I'll see what I can dig up.😎👍

[@kfsrmn]

I carry 148 grain hollow base wadcutters in my light LCR. Old school defense load for BUGs. +P would work in my heavier SP101. The hard cast would make a good bear round.

[@ToolsandTargets]

😎👊

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

The Speer factory loading of their .38 +P gold dot used to be a 125 grain. Then they bumped it up to 135 gr and stopped producing the 125gr, but reloaded could still buy each bullet weight. The sad thing is, both weights from the factory loadings really sucked out of a 2” barrel. They just don’t expand worth a darn. Out of a 2”, it’s just an “average” performer. But loaded by Underwood, it seems to perform so much better.

[@ToolsandTargets]

I was just trying to remember what the factory loads I have were. These Underwoods definitely got it done.😎👍

[@johnnorman7708]

I was shooting a lot of hard cast 158 grain .38 and .357 back in the 80s. That SWC punches deep and doesn't need a lot of velocity to do it either. That 158 grain 1100 FPS is a potent woods load for a .38 Special. As far as it goes, 1200 FPS is in honest lower end .357 Mag territory with 158 grain bullets.

[@ToolsandTargets]

They definitely put the sauce to these hard cast rounds.😎👍

[@johnnorman7708]

@@ToolsandTargets Ages ago there was a Smith & Wesson that was known as .38/44 along with .38/44 ammo. The gun was a .38 Special built on the large .44 cal frame. The loads were about what you got here. 1100 FPS with 158 grain bullets. This eventually morphed into .357 magnum a few years later.

[@joemokrzycki2006]

Wow both did excellent out of the snubby

[@ToolsandTargets]

Yes they did.😎👍

[@waynefelton6413]

Thanks for your awesome videos, they are ALWAYS informative. .love 'The Jellytime'

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. Appreciate that.😎👍

[@highsecurityagent8778]

Underwood also has a 150gr 38spl Hardcast flat wadcutter listed at 1000 fps. Could you try to test it.

[@emwaver]

I have underwood xtp 38+p for my Taurus 856, I think they are more for penetration than expansion but haven’t found a test on these, I wish Underwood loaded gold dots still. Great video, glad there are powerful loads for that 856.

[@ToolsandTargets]

I need to see if I have some of those. Thank you sir.😎👍

[@MrMacacson]

I load 158gr hard cast swc to standard pressure and consistently get 18-20" penetration from my 2" Rossi averaging 800fps!

[@frankbrowning328]

Excellent performance from a 38 snubbie from both. The hardcast load appears to penetrate deep enough for woods carry in a snubbie!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Yessir. Some good stuff.

[@rsbreeze]

Snubby......'Nuff said!

[@ToolsandTargets]

💥💥💥

[@CashGravel]

I’d like to see that Underwood compared against the Buffalo bore plus P. The Buffalo bore kicks like a mule out of the same gun you used the underwood looks like it’s a little easier to handle.

[@robertseafield5810]

Great test! Both of those loads should pick up around 100 fps from a 4 inch barrel. Federal lists a 158 gr LSWC 357 Magnum load at 1235 FPS.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. They definitely spiced these up.

[@alexandermfernandez9283]

I had no idea those things (Hard-Cast) would plow through all that gel and more . It's a good thing I saw this video 'cause some ol' codger was telling me , "the best thing for self-defense is a hard lead bullet" . I guess he was thinking of a soft lead bullet ? Anyhow those Gold Dot's look like the better choice of the two . Great video , very informative .

[@nigeltheoutlaw]

Yeah, I was checking Underwood's site the other day and didn't see any Gold Dot loadings, but I also didn't have time to dig too deep. I only saw various Nosler loadings and proprietary Underwood loadings. Just off appearances, their 115 grain 9mm standard pressure looks... very generic. I'd be dubious on performance.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Agreed. The Nosler stuff I have tested has not been too impressive either. They're using Berry's hybrids for some rounds also. be interested to see if they get those to expand consistently.

[@semichiganandy2127]

Both of those were surprisingly impressive in their own way. Interesting video, thanks.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Definitely some good ones. Thank you sir.😎👍

[@macy725]

I like hard cast flat noses bullets in light recoiling loads for my Snubbies. Might not be as effective as a +p hollow point. But I know it will penetrate all the way through without the recoil.

[@abengelbrecht]

Those rounds had some zip to them for 38spl out of a snub nose. Almost getting to lower end 357 numbers.Underwood is normally loads a bit lighter than BB for revolver rounds, but these did really well.

[@ToolsandTargets]

I was a little surprised how hot they were.

[@bigtrev761]

🇦🇺😎👍Brother you’re a workaholic ….deeep diving jelly escapee ….great test , great Gold Dots🏁…..Thankyou Sir , Thankyou Bill 🏁🇺🇸🏁

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir!😎👊

[@williamray3101]

Gold dot look 👍.staying with critical duty in my full size 9.😊

[@alfontana6242]

Thanks for your informative video. Underwood ammo will now be my first choice for my carry ammo.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Fantastic stuff.😎👍

[@SmokesKwazukii]

those hardcasts are nuts. holy smokes. i wouldnt mind having them in .357 for bears, i think they actually could do it.

[@squibload58]

In my Taurus 85, my powder coated 158 gr LSWC handloads clock near 725 fps. That gives all the penetration I want with a lot less recoil than those Underwoods. High speed is unnecessary with LSWC.

[@johnshields9110]

Sir, I love the way you do your testing! Straight to thes testing, and clearing naming out the type of loads you are using, plus yelling that out to as eaxh type of round hits the jell blocks. Those Underwood 158;s would be The Magin woods trail bullet for any bigger critters that would get in your way.! Thems bear stoppin shells if a fellar is a good shot. I also wonder how tight the clyinder gap is to the barrel forcing scone is? I bet it is tight on that pistol The performance of that 158 gr load may make me putll out my 130 gr HP loads. Perfect placement is best, and a perfect strike with those 158;s would kill both man or Bear handily.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir! The hardcast really surprised me and I was wondering the same thing about the gap on this revolver. Might have to do a little measuring.

[@steveb6103]

I load alot of hard cast . Mostly for target shooting. But they'll punch through car doors and walls .

[@ToolsandTargets]

I guarantee. This stuff didn't wanna quit.

[@mkshffr4936]

Mi Amigo. Try to get your hands on some of the Buffalo Bore 158gr soft lead SWC HP 38 special rounds. Even the standard pressure one performs quite well in snubbies. The +P gives even more penetration.

[@sylviacandler5541]

WOW! IMPRESSIVE to say the least! Unfortunately my Taurus 85 is NOT rated to handle +P pressures....bummer....

[@pewpewTN]

I have some of those Underwood coated hardcast in .380 +P. Box says 100 grains @ 1150 FPS.

[@ToolsandTargets]

These things were on the move!

[@Hogheadsforbreakfast]

Everyone here that doesn't know about Mr. Elmer Keith should read up on him. He's the man to thank if you appreciate magnum handguns and hardcast lead bullets.

[@ToolsandTargets]

😎👍

[@robertmakowski7808]

Try the Underwood 158 Lead HP-GC...same velocity as the Hardcast with more expansion than the Gold Dot...my carry rounds...

[@boondogger]

Most all that Underwood ammo I've messed with is snorting got some of that hard cast for my 41 titanium and I tell you that's a handful good on ya 😉

[@ToolsandTargets]

Nice.😎👍

[@timothyprice9064]

Those Keith bullets out of 357s have been used on bears and moose. I wonder how they would perform out of a carbine?

[@kennethrisner8648]

I was pleasantly surprised to see the velocities from both loads, especially the hard cast outta that snubby. I expected it to easily out penetrate the jhp but never expected it to nearly quadruple it. I didn't see that coming and it goes to show that with the right round even a snub nose 38 could serve as bear protection. That said just yesterday I got a 100 round box of 9mm 115 gr fmj flat tip modular handgun system active duty. On the bottom of the box it states use only in modern 9mm firearms in good condition and that it is loaded to military velocity and pressure. I got it to try in my taurus g3 and was wondering if either you or any of your other subscribers had tried this round what your results were and if you have already made a video on it please give me the link. I assume that since it's loaded so hot that it might get similar results as that hard cast

[@tonyrebel63]

Man that second round have some serious juice. I love the 157 grain hollow point Remington I have in my 357. Am thinking about getting a 44 magnum LOL. Wonder how that will feel to shoot.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Yessir. My .44 Tracker is a pretty good shooter. I did change the grips to some Hogue ones though to get rid of the palm smack.

[@alexskillz45]

Those hardcast are my backup Bear round. I put ATI grips on my Taurus 85 for better control on those.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Yeah, these G10 VZ grips are super nice for soaking up the recoil. I love these things.

[@DRay-or4tc]

I always used KT SWCs in my Hog hunting revolvers (.41/.44/.45 Colt). The “Heavy for Caliber” versions killed like a .308 to 50 yds. and with proper shot placement. Good Vid.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Nice. These things would really be something from an even longer barrel.

[@jaywalk6628]

Thanks Tool's. Your videos are always first class.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate that, brother!😎👊

[@mesauer]

Those hard cast would be great for carry away from house in “real winters” like we can get in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana. Down vests, heavy winter jackets etc can really be an issue when it comes to penetration. Now if it is cold enough for truly heavy clothing, you could hide a 500 magnum, so no real reason to carry a 38 snubby then. Unless that is all you own. Obviously hard cast isn’t good choice for home, especially if apartment. But a very useful round in open country. I was amazed at the velocity Underwood got out of a 158gr in a 2” revolver. How did the cases extract? We’re they at all “sticky”? Another great test!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Definitely be great for a case like that. No problem at all with extraction. Popped right out like normal. I have to admit after the first round I was thinking to myself, Taurus says they're +P rated, we're definitely about to find out.😂

[@brockhowell2296]

The only reason I lean towards getting a Rock Island 200 over a 856 is because I can get a 605 that looks exactly like the 856 (minus a round) that shoots .357 and its a little cheaper, but I like revolvers and I'll probably still get one anyways. I carry Remington 125 grain, HTP .38 +p in my speed loaders for the 605 and they've got some pop to em', but I was still able to shoot decently (tho I'm a novice), but they're not cheap. So any cheaper alternatives are always a plus.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Get em both!😜

[@allenw969]

Choice Ammunition produces a .38 Special 105 gr hard cast truncated cone flat point that is rated at 650 fps. I have been trying it out for a low recoil round out of a 2.25 inch revolver. It would be great to see how much penetration it has in ballistics gel in a test similar to this one.

[@ToolsandTargets]

🤔

[@theguy6521]

Do more 327/32h&r/32s&w long! Really good vid on the 327 revolver. More compact than my sp101.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Roger that.😎👍