Why Are Eyes Open in Zazen?

[@Stevie_tha_tooth]

I just started Beginners Mind again for the second time. Such a good book.

[@estebanbruzon7974]

I’ve have come to realize that the answer is probably not too esoteric. There is some science out there about the relation between eyes movements and thinking. Eyes move when we ruminate ideas. This is very evident. We see it when Brad move his head and sight while he talks. By keeping the eyes open while doing zazen, landing the sight on the wall and observing the observation not only you don’t fall asleep so easily but you reduce the mental activity at doing the opposite the mind does when you think. I have also found that landing the sight 45° helps me to keep the correct posture. If I look above or behind the ~45° something is probably not right with my posture. I have found the triangle formed between the eyes, the wall and the hara very powerful. So, I don’t see the point of closing the eyes. But I’m not cutting my eyelashes neither. :)

[@HardcoreZen]

Those are really good points! Thank you!

[@TriturusHelveticus]

Interesting comment by D.T. Susuki: (I'm translating from a translation 🙄) people in the western world differ from those in the eastern world. People in the eastern world have a tendency to be calm, even too calm and to fall asleep during Zazen, whereas people from the western world are rather agitated and nervous and tend to think too much during Zazen. [snip] I realize that here in Europe it's sometimes good to close your eyes during Zazen. So there 🙃

[@HardcoreZen]

Interesting.

[@redacted629]

With the eyes open we experience the permanence of the impermanent world. We see things come and go... and eventually let go of letting go. Like the focus of breath, the flame of a candle or the smoke of an incense.

[@alexhristov1167]

Brad, this thing "to keep my eyes open" really changed my life. More people should try this simple exercise. Please, make zazen popular. :)

[@HardcoreZen]

I'll try!

[@purumr]

Same here. closed eyes helped me to conclusively know there is no one inside. but it was just the initial step. real change occurred to me only when I started open eyes method which breaks seer and seen duality more easily.

[@jethrobradley7850]

Thank you, Brad, for addressing this question. It’s interesting and reassuring to hear that Nishjima Roshi and others did not insist upon the half-lidded approach, which I happen to find much more effortful than ‘normal’ eyes open.

[@philipsmart1453]

Yoka Daishi 665-713 The mirror of mind reflects without interference; Its vastness and clarity radiate through countless worlds. Various phenomena all manifest themselves; To a perfectly illuminated one there is neither inside nor outside.

[@lorenacharlotte8383]

Indeed.

[@PariahSojourner]

When I stare at the wall (or damn near anything), I start looking for patterns (and faces) in the texture. It's kinda annoying.

[@HardcoreZen]

That happens. It goes away after a while. I sometimes do that too, but it doesn't really matter. It's just something the mind does.

[@PariahSojourner]

@@HardcoreZen Yeah, true, "it's just something the mind does." My minds been doing it for near 20 something odd years. :D

[@PariahSojourner]

@@HardcoreZen What's really fun is if you stare at the same piece of wall for a long time (many consecutive sits) you become intimate with the patterns and faces.

[@aaronwhite1479]

Pattern detection is an automatic process in our brains. As such, I think we can look at it in the same way we view thoughts, that is, as just an ongoing mental process that we note but don’t get caught up in.

[@lani0]

Its like taking a dog for a walk

[@frankvanmeter3408]

Yes , very good. Keep your eyes open. always!

[@not-one-not-two]

Amazing video, thanks!

[@potoole]

Thank you

[@sugarfree1894]

My prediction (it's a night for it) is that with the eyes open, one is not separated so the division between self and non-self is minimized. I'm going to watch Brad now and see if I'm right...Yes! My teacher says eyes open, I do eyes shut. I think shifting to eyes open will be a big graduation for me.

[@HardcoreZen]

Good luck!

[@justasitis5575]

There is no division between self and non-self; eyes open honors that and helps you see it.

[@Rhobyn]

The main reasons for me to open eyes during zazen is 1. It's way easier to hold and correct for proper posture and 2. I avoid accidentally doing a power nap, which can seem like "waves of calm washing over me". The latter took a while to realize, because it was so nice. :) In general I also feel one should not be scared of obstacles during zazen. You wouldn't insist on only doing zazen in a soundproof room, but you might also not chose an underpass during rush hour. So eyes open facing a blankish surface seems a reasonable compromise.

[@GGT950]

A Roshi taught me how to do it & it was slits. Just like the Buddha statues. Just let a little light in. Just so the sense door is open. I dunno but I’ve done it ever since. Samatha Vippasana. I dunno the difference between Samatha & Zazen. Is it basically the same thing.

[@pignut9361]

Hi Brad, thanks for making this video. Has it ever occurred in your meditation, whereby the 'self' or the notion or sense of 'self' drops away leaving only 'the wall' existing. I mean, there is no 'wall' and 'I' existing separately, there is only 'wall' existing timelessly and empty. Asking for a friend.

[@joanagrego2770]

❤

[@bookerbooker6317]

I was meaning to ask about this recently. I agree philosophically with eyes open, but I have two problems with it: first, I have been meditating with eyes closed for years so it is hard to change a habit. Second, I tried an eyes open meditation and I started seeing weird patterns and light, and it gave me eye strain such that I had blurred vision for at least 2 weeks after :(

[@HardcoreZen]

Oh no! Be careful.

[@MakeDemocracyMagnificientAgain]

I think, it's about augmentation of serotonin production and decreasing melatonin production

[@gunterhendrix]

I mean you could have just said it helps you not fall asleep accidentally. However, if we're practicing in our home we don't have to fear the rod.

[@landedzentry]

I think its often good idea to do Zazen "wrong", incorrectly. The lesson is that these judgements (on the very methodology) are also silly. Who is it that is not enlightened? Who is it that is not doung Zazen correctly.? Lol. My answer /the answer that arises, is ; it is me /and no one. Both "points of view" although opposite, exist together.

[@sparkledog2631]

Eyes open is easier for me. If eyes are closed, it feels like I'm being lazy. With eyes open, it feels like I'm alert.

[@Fakery]

Eyes open being an expression of not shutting out the "external" world sounds really weird when we still face a wall looking down sitting completely still in one posture for several hours at a time

[@HardcoreZen]

Why?

[@Fakery]

@@HardcoreZen sitting facing a wall for up to hours at a time seems like a perfect expression of shutting out the world! Eyes closed or open!

[@HardcoreZen]

@@Fakery The wall is the world,

[@lorenacharlotte8383]

American Zen is different. Lack of experience and insight lead them to follow guides as if they were absolute rules.

[@lorenacharlotte8383]

@@HardcoreZen : The world is inside you. The external world is what all your senses and consciousness project. How are you going to concentrate to feel, see, sense...each of your organs function, the blood pumping in your heart, the state of your lungs...how are you going to detect and dissolve the energy knots in wherever area in your body while your open eyes are projecting images?.

[@leuchtendebirke]

Close your eyes and see how deep the rabbit hole goes. I haven spoken!

[@r.matteffy2511]

You mention focusing more on your posture -- could you say more about that? Sitting alone, I am constantly adjusting my posture ... oops, starting to slump ... upright, that's better ... slumping again but hands are stiff ... that's better, nice relaxed mudra ... nope, slumping again. I can do 30 minutes straight of this nonsense. Yeah, I know, just notice and let it go, but posture's important, right? Feels like I'm getting worse rather than better at this.

[@jethrobradley7850]

Posture is important but not as important as remaining still - and free to attend to whatever it is you are/aren't attending to. It took me (insert swear word) ages to work this one out. Now I get as comfortable as I can first and then, as long as my posture is 75% or more OK (straight-ish back, chin tucked in-ish) I start my meditation. If my posture remains perfect, great. If it's not perfect, whatever. But I don't move... not one bit. Unless I'm seriously out of shape and falling off my cushion. Hope that helps. But more than that, I hope @Hardcore Zen replies to you. Even if it's to set me straight.

[@sonnyle1028]

Inner World + Outer World = One Whole World = The Whole Shebang

[@jedertageingutertag]

this somewhere in china was in shaolin temple

[@HardcoreZen]

Yes.

[@thefrantasticmissfine]

Lol once my head bonked the wall they were

[@HardcoreZen]

Ha! That happens!

[@denisdemiantsev2871]

I'm very new at this. Started sitting zazen in March this year. Before that I tried meditating with my eyes closed concentrating on a mantra that I thought of or on my breath, but that didn't work for me. I started reading Beginner's Mind and one time tried sitting with the eyed open. And I felt it was something I was more comfortable with: I could concentrate on here and now better and more easily step away from the stream of thoughts. Been sitting almost every day since then. The thing about the eyes though: my eyes are kind of out of focus. When I focus on the wall, I start seeing the wall and thinking about the wall and my mind wanders. When my eyes are out of focus, I stop "seeing" and my mind sort of disconnects from the visual it creates. It still wonders sometimes, but not stimulated by the sight anyway. Is this wrong? Should I focus on the wall, watch it and try to overcome this visual connection of the mind (Metaphorically speaking, this watching of the wall is a thread on which the mind pulls. Should one cut this binding by ignoring it or by acknowledging it or is it all the same?

[@edgepixel8467]

Denis Demiantsev Zen instructions about eyes focusing, as far as I know, is "we don't focus on anything in particular."

[@HardcoreZen]

I think the best thing to do is not to think too much about this sort if thing. Just look at the wall.

[@denisdemiantsev2871]

Hardcore Zen, yeah, well... I didn’t think about it until I saw this video 🙃 But I get what you are saying, because this question started popping up in my mind while I did a sitting just now. I guess it doesn’t matter whether you watch the wall or just let it go and unfocus. Do you take your glasses off when you sit? I’m short-sighted and I’ve always taken my glasses off for meditation for some reason

[@HardcoreZen]

@@denisdemiantsev2871 I used to take my glasses off. Now I leave them on. My teacher said "Just do whatever feels most comfortable. If you're used to always wearing your glasses, you can keep them on."

[@denisdemiantsev2871]

Hardcore Zen, thank you! I guess I’ll keep taking them off then until I feel otherwise 😊

[@kawoom2872]

[@wadecleveland9001]

The truth is, if you don't study Tibetan logic, then you're wasting your time.

[@leuchtendebirke]

Ah man, now I feel bad for the Buddha wasting his time.

[@wadecleveland9001]

@@leuchtendebirke The Buddha taught all those views to whomever was the appropriate audience.

[@leuchtendebirke]

@@wadecleveland9001 No, he surely didn't teach "Tibetan logic."

[@wadecleveland9001]

@@leuchtendebirke Ha, okay, see if I care. Your loss.

[@macdougdoug]

The tibetans sure do seem to have ended up with vast libraries of knowledge - I didn't realise they got there via logic. They also got a lot of magic.