Harley-Davidson sales down 16 percent in 2023!

[@6582rg]

CVO sales are up because poor economic conditions rarely affect the wealthy nearly as much as they do the middle and low class.

[@MoeLarrycurly1]

Yep

[@irishguyjg_2ndchancerecovery]

EXACTLY 💯%. I almost read that wrong and thought u were implying the opposite and I was about to go all kinds of keyboard warrior on you, but you were right on, I read it wrong, EXACTLY!

[@niagarawaygmail]

Avalanche Harley has three RG‘s and 3SG‘s, the 122 CVO… Dot plus a fist full of anniversary bikes and a fist full of LRST, LRS, glides out the ass…Tons of inventory!! Should be good shopping in late November or late December or wait deals could even be hotter in January February March!

[@NakaNakaDerkaDerka]

Harley’s are TOO expensive. I’m fortunate to be able to afford one and I still wouldn’t buy a Harley.

[@mattdonna9677]

​@@MoeLarrycurly1yup.

[@ridgebackpilot]

My experience last month shopping for a Police Harley-Davidson suggests that dealers aren't quite ready to lower their prices...yet. But the biggest problem I found is big-city dealers that apply ridiculous fees for things like "dealer prep" and "admin" to their new and used bike sales. Some deals I was offered were weighed down by as much as $2,500 in these fees. I walked away from them and found my new bike at a dealer in the Midwest that doesn't apply all those fees... As Motorman says, it pays to shop around!

[@boogie1354]

My buddy experienced the same thing. He asked the out the door price which they gave. We left to check out another bike and decided on the first. We returned and verified the price and the stealer-ship side plus 2k for documents + prep. Such bs, we walked !

[@bigg2768]

Let the inventory pile up! I love it! Will never give HD a dime. Tried to gouge me +$10k over msrp, delivery, prep on a new Road King Q4 last year. HD can pound sand.

[@dankimgiesler8484]

not HD, it's your dealer.

[@m.f.m.67]

The dealerships are franchised by HD. They could put the brakes on this if they wanted. @@dankimgiesler8484

[@neonsamurai1348]

Part of the problem is that most of the mega mall Harley dealerships are owned by wealthy families who own several car dealerships as well. They are all trying to gouge even harder to make up for sales volume losses. No one in their right mind should buy anything over MSRP as you are throwing that money away -your vehicle will not be worth that extra cost. The other part of it is Harley Execs have decided that they will prioritize higher pricing over production/sales volume, thinking this will bring greater profits (This is more or less what certain luxury brands do such as Rolex). Harley turned down manufacturing numbers a few years ago, and upped the prices accordingly to increase their profit per bike, but I think their strategy is backfiring on them as sales volumes are down during a period where they are making fewer and fewer motorcycles per year.

[@Pyrrho_]

HD started new requirements for dealers to remodel their show floors or get dropped, and those requirements didn't come cheap. It priced out most of the family run businesses and caused consolidation of the mega stores.

[@robertgurgo5662]

I couldnt imagine going into a Harley edealer and listen to the BS that they have been dealing to the public. Ive been riding my whole life even before i had a license and all my buddies feel the same way I do. what goes aroud comes around.

[@dickjohnson7845]

I was verbally accosted at a Harley Dealer last year. I've owned a few Harleys and have since sold them all. I dropped in a local dealer with my buddy who has a CVO and he had his shifter come loose, so we dropped in. I'm on a Triumph Rocket Roadster and had my Triumph jacket on which also has a Harley patch on the sleeve. One sales guy comes over to me and says "triumph and harley, how does that work"? I said just fine, I have a Fatboy and Triumph Rocket. He says "you should step up to a real bike". I was totally annoyed at this point since I was just hanging around waiting for my friend. I asked him if he had anything on the floor right now with over 150 horsepower and 150 torque. He didn't have an answer. Bunch of dicks.

[@markanderson5077]

A couple of months ago I wanted to sell '16 Ultra Limited with 13K miles. I took it to the local dealer and they offered $12K. Their show room is full and the manager said, "had you come in 18-24 months ago I would have offered you full retail. However, with a full inventory, people who are willing to pay retail for a used bike will buy from a dealer with a warranty." On the open market, I'd be lucky to get $15K for my bike in like-new condition. So, it's cheaper to keep her even though I don't ride it much anymore.

[@metcruza5536]

In Australia I see few folk in HD stores and few new HD's cruising around. Lots of used bikes like 883's, VRods , Triumphs Enfields because folk are jumping into the huge used market. This s a luxury that most folk down here cannot afford new, housing prices up a lot, groceries, fuel electricity all climbing.....and young guys now don't care about the HD logo, they wanna ride and just pick up a good used whatever but it doesn't have to be HD.

[@billmcmurtrie1142]

Due to dealings with my local Harley dealer, I am not inclined to buy a new Harley again. Why should I pay $5,000 over MSRP on top of them not honoring their ads in respect to deferred payments and interest, then pay astronomical shop rates for service? Nah, I'd rather buy a used one or a different brand and deal with an independent mecanic.

[@freedom6919741]

9 percent interest and dealers reaming everyone that’s why sales are down.

[@freebehindbars8654]

Biden economy has those doing well still not getting ahead. What you made under Trump drops you an entire class of income. I’m old enough to have never seen anything like what’s really going on. They say inflation is single digits, but across the board it’s closer to 30%, with incomes becoming stagnant in most places.

[@motorman857]

Interest rates are the fault of the Fed. If they keep printing money, we'll see 20% interest in 6 months.

[@freebehindbars8654]

@@Clearsyde They have trouble giving those bikes away, but I still question this.

[@jhask64]

AND you got a nice 3 year warranty.

[@nelsonphilip4520]

@@motorman857 They'll stop printing as soon as it goes they're ready to ditch the paper for digital.

[@mymidlifemoto]

Appreciate that you acknowledged the fact that even the regular models are pretty expensive. I’ve been motorcycle shopping and I’d really love to get a new or newer heritage softail, but it’s way out of my range.

[@motorman857]

Harley's have always been priced higher than other makes. Not by near as much as in years past. Check Indian and Goldwing or BMW prices.

[@scottflora8876]

This is why i love my old twin cam, i can maintain and upgrade way cheaper than buying new or newer!

[@AAPSG]

As I said on another video, these surcharges and document fees are ridiculous and a ripoff

[@thebigoaktree8401]

We, the consumer allow such gouging & greed. Often our old bikes are just fine but our ego itches for something new. And then we fall for whatever price is put in front of us. In the Spring I was looking to purchase a Goldwing Bagger. It was just shy of 30K. I told the rep that I never window shop. Was looking to buy today. Did research on price. Knew they had wiggle room. Asked about vets discount, response: “we will give you 10% off accessories”! Asked the dealer rep to work with me on the price, she wouldn’t budge. Ended up purchasing a Tiger Rally Pro for 26K (they added a set of $1800 panniers and racks). 10% accessory discount. And installed all accessories for free. She called me a week later and learned the news. Seemed disappointed. It was a crazy experience.

[@badkatrising3918]

I am amazed it’s only 16%. They totally disrespect their target market with add on fees and trying to do old school 4 square sales techniques. I tried to buy a new bike twice last year and won’t try again. Harley is a NFL company. (Not For Long).

[@fpvmississippi]

They are asking 52,000 for the new Cvo in Dallas! That’s crazy!!!

[@badkatrising3918]

@@fpvmississippi Lol they can wish in one hand and $#@# in the other and see what fills first😂😂🤣

[@g-man2045]

Our local dealer is owned by a corporation not an individual. Their prices are marked up so much the finance guy said to me sales are down because the prices are so above list. A friend of mine went in to by a 120 anniversary edition, he was not trading in a bike. They gave him their lowest price which was ridiculously high. He went to another deal locally and paid 15,000 less. It pays to shop and know what list is.

[@SoloPilot6]

Pretty much every bike dealer is a corporation.

[@MyDyerMaker]

Very true. When I bought mine I shopped at 3 dealerships.

[@largecarken8504]

Bud light sales down too.

[@frantic39]

I love my 2010 softail. I purchased it used for 6k a couple years back. I have put maybe 3k into it. I will say at a glance if you don't know what you are looking for the bike could pass for new. I will also say its easier to buy used and put a little money into a bike and make it what you want. Buying new my bike would have been from 18k to 25k easy. Depending on how much rubber a rider puts down it may not worth it to buy new. On a side note never go to the dealership for any work unless you got a warranty or are wealthy enough to were it does not matter. Labor is just to high.

[@eb1941]

I was recently in the Irvine and huntington beach, CA dealers. Full inventory. Irvine was running a sale. Prices in HB dealer were holding. Indian dealer was holding on their prices, and honda in Irvine had a $3k mark up on a goldwing. Nice to see prices stabilizing.

[@ridgebackpilot]

I had the same experience shopping for a Police Harley-Davidson last month. Dealers aren't quite ready to acknowledge the buyer's market and lower their prices...yet!

[@dditch66]

Local HD dealer last spring started at $5k OVER msrp ON A softtail. Ended at $3k over MSRP, I walked.

[@ronleon62]

Some idiot paid it to be sure.

[@coryturner9140]

It’s about to get a whole lot worse. Normal people aren’t dropping $40,000 on a bike in this economy. Most middle class people are struggling to simply eat! Sure some Cvo’s are selling because above average income earners still have some extra cash but those people won’t keep Harley going for years…

[@Ineedtotakeabreak]

No one should ever drop 40k on a motorcycle.

[@martincvitkovich724]

depends on who you are and what you want. some people drop more than that restoring antiques @@Ineedtotakeabreak

[@1motomanic]

I just couldn't justify buying a new HD period, with so many used low mileage late model bikes for sale out there.I saved myself thousands plus I never had to step foot into dealership.

[@coryturner9140]

@@1motomanic I just buy used. Save 10-15,000. You can find low mile bikes all day long that someone else has already taken the beating on.

[@haroldyazzie3538]

Po folks gotta eat too.

[@thomascuddy6439]

Good time to just keep the bike you have. I have an ‘09 Harley and will just hang on to it. Even if dealers are overstocked, ALL Harleys are way overpriced.

[@corbinhbucknerjr558]

Same. I find it's much cheaper to keep my 2003 maintained and serviced.

[@ppuntrotzooizooi7692]

Motorman is a wise man! I don’t do anything else... It’s just common sense. 👍👍 Greetz a fan from the Netherlands 🇳🇱 Yes the land of windmills, gouda cheese and wooden shoes 😆

[@jimmyccee1083]

HD pricing has gotten ridiculous. Personally, I would never ever pay msrp for a motorcycle.

[@martincvitkovich724]

Potato chips are also sky high

[@samuelross5466]

Been a loyal Harley rider since 1968 ,seen the bad ,bad days of Harley but stuck with them . Still have a Harley and ride a good bit.Hate to go to the shops anymore. HARLEY has to change some things to survive. Still have faith, things have to change

[@RobertBucks-xh9tt]

I ride an Indian. My local dealership was exactly the same way as you mention Jerry. I got my Roadmaster new in 21' just before inventory dried up. Indian is a little cheaper vs a comparable Harley but Indian prices are insane also. Do you think Indian may be cutting into some of Harley's market share? I know a lot of people that switched from HD to Indian.

[@4twentygrow]

Its not Indian.. they went bankrupt. ( its just a name & has been for quite a few years..) its POLARIS who owns the brand. The quality & ownership service availability for Indian metric crap has been terrible for a long time! The depreciation is crazy! Try getting into a service center (same day) if you break down on the hwy. NOT! When Indian was Indian you got a s&s Engine / transmission etc. Now? cheap metric crap! POLARIS doesn’t even rate 1% against HD Sales.

[@airtexaco]

​@@4twentygrowAMF. It happend to HD as well. Enjoy your inferior bike.

[@johnwilliamson6143]

Useing your rational I guess harley wasnt harley from 1969 to 1981 they were amf.

[@nonyabiz1209]

​@@4twentygrow I own 2 Harleys. A superglide evo and a twin cam Heritage. My dad has a M8 Heritage and a Dark Horse Indian. I like them all. Indian still makes a nice bike and the dealership was way cooler than our local Harley Steelership. As far as depreciation goes I suggest you check your local classifieds. If you find a used Indian, it is not cheap.

[@jeffreyhall838]

Im surprised they have only dropped 16% I would have guessed 40%

[@SoloPilot6]

There's a glut of used Harleys with low mileage around here. Since there is so little evolution, why buy new, when Harley riders are aging out of riding (and, in many cases, BREATHING), and the kids don't want the thing?

[@ejdtm]

I would not buy a Harley right now. I would wait and see what trickles down from that CVO if you’re interested in buying a bagger. They’ll probably be some great incentives for leftovers too in a couple months.

[@motorman857]

I believe the 2024's come out in February.

[@AMERICAFIRST54]

It's so expensive to live in Florida, people are moving to Texas, Georgia and the Carolinas. It's either a Harley or home owners insurance if one can find and afford it.

[@davidspin5353]

My local, Berts Blackwidow pissed me off during Covid, trying to get 5 grande over retail on a Pan America, maybe I'll go in there and low ball them...

[@D-doggy77]

For the last 6 months I’ve been researching and dreaming of buying a new HD next year for my first big bike but now I’m not so sure. I can afford it but from everything I’ve read on here it’s sounds like something a fool would do, they sound like a ripoff company that sells damaged goods. The shine has definitely gone off that idea, dunno wtf I’ll do now, I was really looking forward to it but fck supporting ripoffs. If it all wasn’t written by people who have loved and followed this company for decades I wouldn’t have believed it.

[@ronleon62]

There are MUCH better bikes out there than overpriced, under-preforming and overweight HDs.

[@ACE-or8bo]

what you dont hear is about all the bikes being repo

[@FXFBS540]

I bought an M8 Fat Bob in 2019. They've yet to come out with anything more exciting to entice me back into the dealership.

[@markmcintosh7095]

Dealers in my area are discounting Harleys up to 5000.00. Some have new 2022 models on the floor.

[@johnscott5662]

Here in the Philadelphia area I haven’t seen many motorcycle riders out all summer. I checked Hannum’s website last night and noticed that most were marked down. Of course, last year they were selling used bikes for as much or more than the original price.

[@Pyrrho_]

Here in Milwaukee it's the same. Yeah, tons of HDs during the anniversary, then hardly anything... and I live a block and a half away from HD's headquarters. I'll see bikes at weekend organized gatherings, but not so much day to day commuting.

[@NickCurcio-c7n]

I'm near Philly also, they advertise them marked down, then you walk into a dealer and they start their negotiating about $15k above msrp and work down from there, freedom valley in Sellersville wanted $21k otd plus my 23' street glide standard with 500 miles trade (paid off) for a 23' street glide special in vivid black, they had 17 new street glides on the floor, I walked out, their showroom was so packed they had bikes lined up the walking isles, this was a month ago

[@dwightbernheimer331]

Nothing about Harley-Davidson has made Common Sense in decades... WHY should it change Now... People are starting to wise up about 'Stealership' Scams. Good stuff, thanks for posting.

[@riachardpaul943]

I'm sure you can get a used Harley for a good price ,there's all kinds of them for sale in my area.

[@bobmac9070]

Hope they sit on them so long they have no choice but to drop their shorts! They been sticking people for years. The economy is not good and the vast majority of Americans are tapped out. Houses aren’t moving, car sales are tanking, the entire market stinks!!!!

[@dennisbailey6067]

How many need a big Vtwin that weighs more than a steamroller,and about as agile.

[@anthonyivy1305]

NOT agile? Clearly you need to take a Ride like a Pro class, I can whip my Ultra Classic around places the Indians can't with their bigger turning radius..

[@motorman857]

In the U.S. nobody needs a motorcycle, period. In this country, a motorcycle is just an expensive toy. Come 2024, we'll find out if you'll have no choice but to buy a cheap 150cc motorcycle to get around on, like a 3rd world country because you can't afford a car, or the economy will begin to recover quickly and people won't have to live paycheck to paycheck.

[@six-pack1332]

Economy sucks, people are pissed, and Harley-Davidson wants to sells bikes for the price of a pickup truck. I don't know why they're not selling.

[@motorman857]

You haven't priced a pickup truck lately.

[@thelost_woods]

the models are getting a little long in the tooth. The softails have been basically the same since 2018 besides slight tweaks plus favorite models being axed. 107 Low rider , Softail Slim, Road King, Sport Glide, FXDR, all gone. Also blacked out is getting stale, give me a nice shiny chrome low rider any day over an ugly blacked out Lowrider S

[@Prometheus1979]

lol yea because chrome has only been around since forever on a Harley. There are still plenty of pitting chrome for you to buy new and used.

[@Simon-hf3lw]

Thank you for the update Motor man is well appreciated. 👍

[@pjhaebe]

Just bought em Electra glide, stealer fee was $950, bought the bike for $2500 below MSRP

[@billking8736]

Three weeks ago I bought a new vivid black 2023 Street Glide Special with RDRS for $29.4k out the door and they offered 1.9 percent for 48 months.

[@torotheplumber3788]

I'm in Florida even if you go used they have "fees" and won't budge on their prices

[@fredrickhaemker8434]

Walk out. Yep.

[@jlb9074]

This is interesting. I was in a dealership today - just picking up parts - and I’ve never seen so many bikes in that shop. I live in South Florida, so I assumed they’re stocking up for their busy season, but maybe that’s not the case at all.

[@ronleon62]

Busy season? Lol

[@motorman857]

@@ronleon62 Yes, lots of snowbirds come to Florida in November and then head back to wherever they came from around April/May.

[@FloridaBoilermaker]

Just an assumption but with the new fairing, I feel like people may be waiting to see if the new fairing is carried down to normal models in 24.

[@elrumcajs777]

The new faring and the vvt. But mostly I think it’s because of the whole economic sit world wide. The rich are not so screwed… they almost never are. But the middle class is. I used to be a delivery driver and my old colleagues tell me that they are delivering expensive stuff almost exclusively to rich neighbourhoods.

[@MrNew122]

It makes perfect sense that the most expensive Harley is selling. Only the richest people can afford them.

[@airtexaco]

I beleive the rich are also buying an image which is why there are so many high end HDs for sale after a few years with low mileage.

[@John-ob7dh]

​@@airtexacoI just bought one that belonged to a rich guy.He kept it 20 yeas and hardly rode it ( 11000 miles ) God knows what he spent on it in extra chrome and paint .It is a stop and stare bike.

[@toddbradley9430]

Prices of used Harley's in Canada are out of control. Used are literally selling for what they were new, even with 40,000 to 50,000 miles on them. I had a dealership in Vancouver offer me a brand new Roadglide for the same price as a 2021 that had over 40,000 miles on it. But the new one was black and I'm sick of black, (the other units wasn't a special or CVO, to clarify.) I've quit shopping for now. We'll see what it looks like in a year.

[@davidsizemore2745]

A local Harley dealership for the month of October offered retail for your trade on a used bike if you traded in on a 2023.

[@motorman857]

Generally the dealers who make offers like that, simply charge big dealer fees, prep fees, etc..

[@splodge57]

Maybe sales are down because prices are too high and a poor model range. (the new 'Sportsters' being a prime example.)

[@motorman857]

Then why would CVO sales be up by 25%?

[@I_am_archie]

I think, in general most riders willing to purchase the cvo are wealthy enough to do it easier than other riders looking for a less expensive bike. While the cost of living continues to rise. No?

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

@@motorman857 People love to buy status symbols. In this market, a CVO is a much cheaper status symbol than one of those kitted out F150's that Ford can't sell. And if you can afford to buy a status symbol, you're obviously not too worried about the mortgage or the bills.

[@metcruza5536]

@@davidbrayshaw3529 Only speaking in Australia but HD need to talk to younger folk. Many see HD as an old dude bike or associated with 1% ers....sure not true but we are getting the new 350 and 500 cc. Let's see how they sell.

[@mrcotter2531]

I just sold my ‘19 SGS with 5k miles with my ‘97 sidecar(new black paint) for $40k - I was blessed to get every penny!

[@7viewerlogic670]

Sounds like a good price on the course / bike rental.

[@tvd1188]

i got a great deal on a 22 Pan Am in July. I made a crazy offer and thought i'd get countered, but didnt.

[@irishguyjg_2ndchancerecovery]

Not at our Harley-Davidson dealership in Elk River Minnesota. We had a stellar year! Sorry that's not the case with many others. I almost bought a 2023 Road King Special, but the $6-7-800 a month payment just wasn't jiving, but many other people were able to make that payment and ride away with a new HD this year, wasn't me, but I'm happy on the sportster, I got a bigger tanknfor it, all I need is my painter to get er done. Thnx for all the tips & tricks brother.

[@HogLife]

Who can afford these ridiculous prices,I’d love to go get another bike to start my own collection but not gonna anytime soon

[@HDR20]

CVO is up because there was only 1 model for most of the year. Mid-year release fudges the numbers

[@mike-fb1pu]

Picked up my 2022 Electra Glide standard width 8000 Mi on it for $16000 and my old honda shadow Sabre 1100 2002

[@Starship007]

People use to feel rich buying a million dollar home with 3% loan. Now many have been left out of expensive house market especially with twice the monthly mortgage at 7-8%

[@fredrickhaemker8434]

Buy the home price, not the mortgage rate. Home prices are way too high! Wait 3 to 4 yrs.

[@franklinbittner4683]

It actually makes sense,the average citizens can’t afford Harley Davidson anymore

[@Freedomridingcompany]

Thanks for the info, but I'll wait until you're ready to sell another bike! Only this time I'll fly in, take your class with the bike and ride it home.....

[@dane5896]

Ripping people off is backfiring. 👍

[@bvrsqzr3569]

Its definitely not rocket science. Inflation is costing us a lot of money. Money we now cant spend on nice toys.

[@dandreger5616]

I bought my 2019 RGS in January 2020,it was a leftover brand new bike.Just before Covid dealers were overstocked and giving good deals.I got $3k off sticker price.CVO bikes generally sell out and this year is a brand new redesign so everyone that can afford one wants one.

[@nickkinne]

Dealers in twin cities in Minnesota are offering full retail for trade in on purchase of brand new 22/23 Not much selling even with that offer on top low APR

[@matt.docondor6099]

In the last two years, many new models were poorly available in Europe. Harley Davidson presents its new models incomprehensibly in mid-January. If one then ordered a new model, it was often delivered only at the end of the motorcycle season. Many Harley Davidson prospective customers switched to other motorcycle brands. I am curious how this will develop for the 2024 season.

[@dwheeler016]

And prices are up 20%

[@motorman857]

Food prices have doubled. Both at the grocery store and restaurants. Counting for inflation, H.D. prices are lower than 20 years ago.

[@Pyrrho_]

@@motorman857 However, income hasn't risen to match so there's less available income to spend. ie, HD's are less affordable.

[@motorman857]

@@Pyrrho_ Of course. The economy is in the dumps. And when the economy is bad, toys are the first thing to go.

[@glenoneil3074]

What's hurting them is the finance rate. 8.5 % is chasing people out . They are offering lower rates only on specific models?? Ie not on flhtp's . N.j. dealers are not "dealing"

[@jozsva8064]

Seen a 2019 Indian Challenger for 18k almost went and got it but was too slow someone beat me to it lol guess gotta wait for now

[@gracechristianfellowship3811]

Not just motorcycle sales that are down. Where I live boat dealership lots are so full you can't hardly drive in. Last couple years you couldn't find one and dealers were asking and getting crazy prices. Now they're about to winter a lot full of inventory. Crash gotta be about to happen.

[@motorman857]

The same with RV dealers. This is what happens when you disrupt the supply chain, stop issuing oil exploration permits, shut down areas where oil can be found, and add thousands of new regulations to all businesses and finance foreign wars while printing money like it was going out of style.

[@brandoncrow4894]

They need to be. Quality is terrible. Changed my factory plugs in my FLRTXS. Gap should be .31-.35. They were all 4 between 39 & 48.

[@djones7725]

Prices are out of control. Id rather keep my current Harleys and put money into them rather than buy new. They run just as good as the new ones and theyre paid for.

[@KEN-du2iz]

They are still holding strong on their prices as of lately. Been hunting for months for a deal. So far the usual shady deals. I tried the low APR route to see if that helped but by the time that get done adding fees there's no point going that route. Was even offered $1500 of BS coupons... I didn't even go back. They'll break eventually they always do. Same for the rest of consumer items. Their in business to make money regardless if it's a small profit it's better than nothing and paying for a store front with stale products.

[@thomasteck6911]

I just think the CVOs is further away from a real Harley. Just not a fan. I’ve had a Fatboy, Ultra and now I’m down to a wide glide. I’ve traveled at least 15 states on these bikes. Never had an issue.

[@Robert-ts5ze]

Could it be that the HD line is a little overpriced , and that extra dollars are added to the bottom line , and the customers feel as if they are getting screwed with their pants on in the buying experience ? A 16% decline in sales ? You ain't seen nothing yet .

[@stanleymasterson1135]

Buyers falsely think that CVOs are collectibles... they're not. I buy bikes with EVO or shovelhead motors. I don't lose a penny on them and no one can tell they're not new. You have to be deranged to buy new, and the Milwaukee 8 motor sucks also

[@motorman857]

I'll tell H.D. to list you as a ''maybe'' for a 2024 CVO.

[@billpope2111]

Full coverage insurance for me with geico is 2600. Perfect driving record…

[@pjhaebe]

Lmao. Wtf?? My full coverage is $1200 with GEICO

[@RoadieWingZZ]

$600 full coverage with Sentry (HD Insurance). $2600 is extortion.

[@MyDyerMaker]

Progressive was cheapest for me.

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

I pay$120 per year on all my motorcycles .Full coverage and road service included.

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

I should say $120 for each of the bikes not for all of them combined. If you go above 900 cc then it doubles. I don't have a car.

[@MrBeugh]

The regular bikes are just too expensive for most people. If you can afford a new one you can probably splurge a few extra grand for the CVO.

[@aussie_xsf]

Their greed has brought this upon themselves, who has 40 grand when you can get a good used bike for half the price. Streamling the range, introducing crappy models and models without swingarms and pumping up the prices to put it out of reach of anyone but the rich or 50 plus buyers has come back to bite them on the butt imo....

[@karlbishop7481]

My dealeris a Euro dealer with most brands except BMW. I was just in the store three weeks ago. There were fewer bikes on the floor since I started visiting the store which was about five years ago. I just bought the latest model Moto Guzzi, I paid list but I was given a fair amount for my trade in. The closest bike Harley makes would be a Lowrider ST which would have required another $5K to purchase and it would have been way short on extras. I think Harley needs a whole new business model.

[@motorman857]

''I think Harley needs a whole new business model'' So they'll be able to sell as many bikes as MotoGuzzi? Are ya kidding?

[@karlbishop7481]

@@motorman857 They do if they want to maintain their current market position. Can't sell dinosaurs forever.

[@joemullet9397]

They have priced themselves out of their core market

[@martincvitkovich724]

so everyone should work for minimin wage ?

[@joemullet9397]

No

[@scoutandscooter]

CVOs buyers are the last of the Boomers who have cash. All the other bikes are being financed (stupid) and rates are way up. With home mortgages up to 8%, H-D finance must be charging well over 12% for a bike. Say a buyer wants to finance a $25K bike. H-D finance department will say "how about 72 months to make it easy" (that's SIX years stupid buyers). Payment at 5% = $400, total $ 29K. Payment at 14% = $520, Total $37.5k. Difference = 8,500. That will deter even stupid.

[@rampantcolt1684]

Average Joe can't afford to "Ring that Bell", given all the Dealer mark up's far beyond MSRP. It's not the Company or the economy... it's the greedy Dealerships. Disgusting.

[@gb23a]

Their greed is catching up to them. And even more so in the future

[@rlhh4]

People with lots of money will keep buying, but normal people will put off buying toys now. Same thing with cars. Exotics are strong now but everyday stuff not so much.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

Look at Rolls Royce during the GFC. They had two years worth of backorders. Why? Because if you're net worth was $50 million and you lost half of it in the crash, you still had $25 million to spend and even a luxury car isn't a big stretch, at that point. At the same time, cheap car sales fell through the floor, for a while.

[@mattmattes3913]

I think the motorcycle industry as a whole, is on a downward swing. It's not exclusive to H-D.

[@analyticalhabitrails9857]

Theres a reason why HD is ranked at the bottom, while japanese motorcycles are at the top fair and square. Japanese motorcycles will be fine, except for HD. And if HD dont get there acts together, and make reliable motorcycles, then they deserve everything negative coming for them.

[@Pyrrho_]

It's primarily HD and Indian. Yamaha saw a decline too, but every other major brand is up.

[@coachchris100]

The prices are out of control

[@4twentygrow]

They told the shareholders they’re streamlining services by closing certain divisions and Services.. the mandate is to do more with less. That builds a stronger Brand & Share Value.. In Canada.. they can’t keep rides in the show room! The demand is insane!

[@Pyrrho_]

Only part of HD that's profitable is their finance division. Should tell you a lot.

[@GenXBiker]

Sales are down for everyone. If Harley doesn't do something drastic to raise sales (lower prices), they may not survive next year

[@martincvitkovich724]

and so goes all businesses in the USA. Maybe if Obiden cuts off more energy supplies we can all stay home and suck sggs

[@SmittyAZ]

Some dealers that claim to not add additional fees, do not use HD's MSRP. They change that first line to "Dealer's Suggested Retail Price" and of course, it's higher than HD's.

[@motorman857]

I always offer an out the door price by phone. I tell the saleman if the agreed upon price changes when I get there, they'll be on youtube. Works for me every time.

[@nickpapagiorgio8038]

Because supply shortages cause a decision to be made as to which product to concentrate the limited supplies. Not too mention that those supply issues were resolved, to some extent by the time the CVO's were being produced. THAT'S why. there was a drop in

[@nadewitt-yf6ng]

Gee, I wander why? Can't be. Nobody has the money to buy one at their over inflated prices! Lower the price and see them fly off the floor!

[@B_Ritt70]

You can tell the motor company is trying to entice buyers w/ the incentives they offered this summer and now the 0.01% financing offer. People are holding on to their money right now, the economy, wars, election year coming up, etc.

[@socalgolf9978]

The entire economy is down and many business are struggling .. dealers reallly screwed themselves making it worse marking up prices and unwilling to negotiate .

[@John-ob7dh]

In 2005 i bought av1998 evo FXDWG .I Sold itva year ago for £500 more than i paid for it 19 years ago.

[@wadestrickland3372]

Harley's aren't Harley's anymore. They should take a page from Anheuser and listen to those who made the company great to begin with. Rebel against electric bs, build loud, air cooled, carburetor/fuel injected V-Twins and sell them for reasonable prices. And bring back a model that interests new riders. Do something about the quality issues that have been mounting for a couple decades, and do away with the Euro-trash fashion at dealerships, and bring back the Mom&Pop atmosphere and service.

[@kevinblane3211]

Also new bike shipments are down 43percent

[@robbyclark6915]

The reason the cvos are up in sales is likely to do with the massive upgrades made to the new ones. Is my guess anyway. I mean, they basically built a whole new bike! Or two, i guess. All the additional technology along with a brand new engine is kind of a monumental occasion for Harley. Plus, being a cvo just adds to the allure. Imo.

[@motorman857]

You may be right.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

And they cater to the top end of town, which isn't taking a bath in the current economic environment like those a rung or two down the ladder, are. I'd love to know how many of those CVO's were sold for cash. I'm betting a lot more in percentile terms than their lower priced options.

[@RoadieWingZZ]

The engine is still a single cam Milwaukee 8. They just added a VVT feature and tweaked a few components. It’s not really a new engine like the difference that was seen between all other engine changes in Harleys history.

[@robbyclark6915]

Yeah, it's the first ever 121 from the factory, and it has vvt, so to me, that's a new engine. I'm assuming you won't be putting a stage 2 on this engine? I don't know how much modifying anyone can actually do to this engine? Harley engines known for the ability to modify and upgrade their performance. I don't know if that's still going to be a thing with this new 121, vvt engine?

[@haroldhass5180]

​@@robbyclark6915FUEL MOTO and all the rest are already coming up with mods. There will just have to be more of the new engines out there to take the mods.

[@haroldhass5180]

I've had twincams when they first came out and M8's and there is no way I would get anywhere near the 121 till is gets sorted out for a few years. I'M done doing there product development on my dime.

[@amg5795]

Trade in they never give even close to fair enough price.