Has Games Workshop Just Killed MESBG?

WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MESBG?!
Big News! How damaging could this really be for Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game?
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#middleearthsbg #mesbg #warhammer

[@fredgilbert2032]

Players: MESBG is the best ruleset GW makes! So nice not to be caught in the never-ending BS 40k and AoS players. GW: Hold my beer...

[@elvenarmorywargaming9913]

The only unjustifiable crime is robbing us of Gildor Inglorion.

[@fragfmgill]

Take note from Old World and ignore GW putting things into Legacy.

[@tieloon1]

But where will you buy the models?

[@michaniedospia4100]

How to push people to go 3D prints :D I don't understand what happened here, if we will not get new profiles then people will play the current edition, and not care about the new edition. Also, some changes have such an impact on certain armies that you need to rethink how you will play them.

[@TTAlliance]

Yeah genuinely crazy decisions being made. Hopefully they have an epic reveal plan in place...

[@Scipionyxsam]

GW really hasn't seen the writing on the wall. They still act as if they had absolutely no competitors on the market. Or maybe they know something we don't? Maybe they are going super niche by milking the hardcore consumers that will pay any prize for miniatures? Maybe their ace is a massive new cease and desist technology? We will find out.

[@Ceiling_Gato]

Knight of the White Tower is gone and even used as an example of non-movie stuff that is going away, but bolt thrower (which hasn't been in production in years) stays....really activates my neurons

[@joshuaowens570]

MF’n GW will remove it from the command pack and still charge us the same outrageous price for those mediocre prints.

[@Tigerheart01]

The Great Beast of Gorgoroth was actually IN the movie Return of the King. It took two of them to pull the Wolf's head battering ram to the doors of Minas Tirith. So... there's that.

[@Antonaidas-7]

Justice for Erestor. I mean what did he do wrong...

[@TTAlliance]

Genuinely one of the ones we are most annoyed about

[@hobbyspotnz2833]

If it was a licensing issue and they could only use film media He's in the movie right? Not named but he talks to Elrond. Bonkers

[@DjigitDaniel]

*GW does something* Oh no... anyways. I've been playing the ruleset with whatever models I can find and a phonebook worth of homebrew for 20+ years, from a secondhand rulebook acquired in a private exchange. They haven't gotten a penny out of me since WH40K 3rd Edition, and they won't ever from what I can tell. You can't kill an idea. GW, along with Disney and WotC, can get bent.

[@wong40k42]

Whatever happened to OG Space Marines can happen to anyone.

[@Splentys]

Lost my entire 800 point far harad army in one fell swoop! They say that you can still play them using the legacy book, but we all know that book will be forgotten about after a few supplements. I am still looking forward to the new edition though, and hopefully with all these cuts they commit to making more new plastic troops.

[@TTAlliance]

Ouch 😬 yeah hopefully we get loads of new plastic 🤞🤞🤞

[@robbyv101]

Legitimate question, when was the last time Far Harad or Khand had an update, or readily available models? Were they not, for all intents and purposes, already "legacy" factions?

[@Splentys]

@@robbyv101 Far harad had their models rotated back into the range fairly recently and have been available since. They had a semi recent FAQ that increased the heroic tier of mahud kings, and also got a legendary legion (in combination with serpent horde). However, most importantly they are in the main army book - not a secondary one that will be forgotten about eventually!

[@TheGreySpectrum]

The same people behind what happens in 40k and AoS are ultimately behind what happens in MESBG. When you lose something to Legends/Legacies, you don't get it back. You maybe get something similar, like how Space Marines got their Jump Pack Intercessors, but for most armies you get nothing to replace them. GW's trend has been to narrow down their product ranges, so my advises is to get or make a nice display case for your Far Harad because that's about all you'll be using them for. As for a 'Legacy Book', I have doubts we're going to get anything beyond a PDF, since that's all they do for 40k and AoS (and TOW), and I really doubt that MESBG is going to warrant printing an entire physical book for their OOP miniatures when their biggest games do not. When this happens, it's GW's way of 'politely' telling you to buy a new army/new miniatures, and that they don't want you using those old ones anymore. None of them are going to be usable in competitive play (which conveniently tends to mean "the majority of all games", not in the least because they're probably going to do points updates but Legacy/Legends will never be touched by those updates, making them very poor choices).

[@Lornext]

So they are going full Age of Sigmar and Primaris marines with this one?

[@Tom_Quixote]

Primaris orcs coming up

[@Clfgy]

If losing all these models means lots of new sculpts (plastic troops) then I don't mind. But if we don't get much past stuff from the new film then it will be a massive hit.

[@TTAlliance]

@@Clfgy I agree. If its making way for good replacements, that's OK. But as of right now, they've not given an explanation, just said they're going. They don't handle these things well

[@lukealmond4038]

@@TTAlliancethere surely needs to be an explainer interview or video released. I get holding back announcing new releases, but this way causes unnecessary panic and anger in the player base. Explicitly say if any of the factions affected are being revamped in the future or not.

[@chaoticzer0]

@@TTAlliance I mean you guys should be fully aware by now they don't handle communication very well at all. 😂

[@TheGreySpectrum]

Considering they've either completely removed them or shoved them into MESBG's version of Legends, no. They're just gone now. We'll get some new stuff related to this anime* and that's really pretty much it. Edit: Previously I'd had "Amazon Prime(?)" beside the asterisk, I didn't remember who was making it. I appreciate the correction. It really had no baring upon my comment or point, however.

[@TTAlliance]

@ It’s not anything to do with prime. It’s in the Peter Jackson universe. Hence GW having license for it

[@joshuaowens570]

I literally just bought, and started painting a King’s Champion and an entire Khand army… 😑 Also, not only is Grimbold not getting a horse(how tf does a Rohan hero not have a horse), but is getting axed, along with Erkenbrand (was pivotal during helms deep in the book) both get cut but they keep Elfhelm? Umm, wut?.. Also..also? I built my entire Mirkwood, Carn Dum, and Arnor force from Forgemaster miniatures. They are absolutely gorgeous, excellent print quality, and wayyyyy cheaper than GW.

[@SheepWaveMeByeBye]

You will own nothing and you will be happy.

[@detroitfusion779]

Lol this is so dramatic. Is this just nerd ragebait I'm falling for?

[@Wargame341]

At least there are recasters to fall back on.

[@wasted-blaster.]

Listen just because they have gone into legends DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE GONE it just means you cant use them in a tournament setting other then that you can use legends in causal games which is what 96% of people play be it once a week or once a month. So please stop with this false information false crying nonsense.

[@TTAlliance]

You clearly don't have much experience with what they have done with legacy profiles in their other games. Before long they will be left in the dust and won't be played anywhere

[@wasted-blaster.]

@TTAlliance too that end you are wrong I play 40k with my legency repressor in casual games there is nothing wrong with legends just because they are not supported in the competitive scene does not mean you can't play them at home or in casual games at the local group which is what 96% of players do anyway so it's not all doom and gloom.

[@JulianY2K12]

You can't buy them anymore though. So they're basically gone if you don't already own them. Plus they'll likely just be phased out of future editions anyway. Just terrible news for the game tbh

[@michaeltunnicliffe4935]

I'm torn, but mostly optimistic. I know why they are doing this. GW has a space problem. They have overstretched themselves. They cannot stock everything anymore. They cannot run enough machines to produce everything anymore. They need to cut back in places or run a serious risk of having long drawn out shortages of everything. Now I also know why this is and that's what I find most upsetting about this situation. They are overstretched because they brought back Warhammer Fantasy in the form of Old Worlds. They have committed to a rebranding of Horus Heresy. They have brought back Epic in the form of Legions Imperialis. They have committed to continued growth of 40k with new factions like Leagues of Votaan, Emperors Children and Agents of the Imperium. And games like Kill Team and Warcry keep growing and growing by the week. MESBG has been a victim of a company overstretching itself, failing to keep up with demand and forcing one of it's less popular games to the back of the queue. They need to remove models to make way for all these other games. But they also need to make room for new MESBG. And this is why i'm cautiously optimistic. We are getting new MESBG. Something which for a long time seemed like it would never happen. War of the Rohirrim models, Angmar models, presumably Hunt for Gollum models when that movie comes out. And the fact we have got new Rohan Warriors has me optimistic that we may get new sculpts for more of the older kits. Especially the ones which don't have their own dedicated warrior boxes such as finally getting plastic hobbit militia, seperating High Elves and Numenor and more affordable Iron HIlls and Gundabad. But this is all a bit too hopeful perhaps. My concern is that after a few more revelas for War of the Rohirim, we will get nothing until Hunt for Gollum, in which we may only receive like 3 new kits and then that's it. I can deal with the removal of all of this, if it's to make room for a new life for MESBG, to make room for tons more stuff. But my fear is it's to make room for more Old Worlds or more 40k factions. So I guess time will tell. If we get a consistent string of announcements, updates and new models, then I'm completely fine with the loses if it makes MESBG more exciting again. But if this is going to be a mid sized relaunch followed by a return to the usual nothingness, then I'll be pissed.

[@merlin4084]

The only issue with the "Print on demand service" is that, probably, the vast majority of these minis were hand sculpted over a decade ago. I'd imagine only the plastic kits and the newest of sculpts were ever designed in CAD software. So, in order for GW to do a 'Print on Demand' service they would have to remake the minis in 3d and that's just not something they will do, unless its done with a new supplement to go with them. And no, 3d scanning isn't really an option unless the master model is a 3-up model. Scanning the smaller mini is just a waste of time as you'll lose so many details. GW may still have the 3-up master models, but I'm not going to assume anything about them. If GW did a supplement about the Wainriders, that would allow them to make new minis and retroactively allows old Khand players to dig their collection out and use them again. Its a Win-Win for everyone if that were to happen, but until then, this is the reality we live in.

[@XJMX]

With the nerfing of weapon options, and the removal of part of the range that was so integral to LOTR it is clear GW want to move MESBG into their regular 'edition' cycle of games. It would not surprise me if we see new base sizes for War of the Rohirrim either. They want you all to rebuy everything, and the best way of doing that is not by keeping the same rules that have worked for 20 years, and instead give people a hot mess that gets faq'd until the next edition arrives (and repeat...)

[@MSCodeAndGamer]

Seems all the wargaming companies are doing this, Star Wars legion had a massive overhaul where AMG increased unit sizes so people would buy more.They also then proceeded to completely cease Armada and X-Wing, which I never played but I'd be fuming if I had the models 😮‍💨 At least I have a 3D printer to start playing MESBG! Great vid as always chaps!

[@TTAlliance]

Yeah very true. Makes it hard to commit to games. But thanks! 😊

[@rangerofthenorth1970]

0:13 Best edit ever

[@TTAlliance]

;)

[@laszlotusor8460]

GW planning to give refound for my trash minis, after they ruined the game?? if not, than they scam the customers!! FFS THIEFS!!

[@danepatterson8107]

If the new version continues to force me to attempt to roll a 7, 8, or 9 on a six-sided die, then I'm still not playing it. I don't have all day to roll dice for no good reason.

[@TTAlliance]

Eh? I have no idea what you’re referring to? 😅 when does that ever happen?

[@Sacrilege83]

Isn't it too early to ask the click baity question?

[@TTAlliance]

It's not clickbait though, it's genuinely the concern. Obviously it's hopefully going to work out for the best (🤞) but for now, we are worried

[@Sacrilege83]

@TTAlliance if anything, what a 40k vet inserted to me is that these legacy armies/profiles will be gone at the following new edition, like say if GW made a new edition for Hunt for Gollum. Then basically everything legacy previously will become memory holed. That's the time the game will be on very shaky ground.

[@owaindavies8364]

You guys are building a sense of un needed hate for this game where it's not deserved. Lotr is a licensed game from WB and the Tolkien estate. The reason we are getting a new edition is because of a new movie. All these dicesions will be based around the future of the media that will be produced. GW will have had to cut things that don't represent the film in order to keep the game license. You are doing worse for the game by saying boycott GW than you think. Your attitude towards this does you a huge deservice to the game. Jake is acting like a child and just like he does when he loses a game of mesbg. It's embarrassing. We all lost some models we liked. But there will be much bigger reasons behind it and the game will be balanced to patch the holes left behind.

[@TTAlliance]

🤣🤣🤣 We aren't telling people to boycott it. We are saying we get why people do. Imagine recently spending hundreds of pounds on a competitive Far Harad army, followed by hundreds of hours painting it, to be told you can't use it any more? And with basically no warning. That is harsh. As for acting like a child when losing... I laughed all through this weeks game and that was the worst loss I've ever had. But either way, we present ourselves honestly on youtube, we give honest opinions and be ourselves. I am competitive, so is James, we want to win. If you don't like how we act, don't watch 😊 but thanks for your hateful comment anyway. 👍

[@Thaumatolgist]

It seems like it's primarily motivated by licensing. They only want models/factions that are featured heavily in Movies since their license is Movie based and so they are removing even relatively new stuff like the Razgush/Muzgur set which are like from two sourcebooks back because they aren't from a movie really.

[@TTAlliance]

@@Thaumatolgist But there is plenty of stuff that isn't in the movies that's remained?

[@gilgalad6231]

@@TTAllianceso be thankful they stayed. Not vengeful the ones that left, left.

[@newblank8079]

No I don’t think so because mauhur exists ion both the film and the book. But the big expensive dragon emperor is still fine apparently.

[@gilgalad6231]

@@newblank8079because without him and the other GW creations, the easterlings would be terrible. With the Uruks lost, Isengard is still great.

[@ShadowPhoenixMaximus]

Licensing doesn't make sense - there are models in the lore and models are GW originals that are both on and off the list.

[@basition]

i had placed an order with my store thursday for an entire Khand army, i planned it, i saved money for it and it turns out they don't put in webstore orders until the wensday of the week. when that announcement hit yesterday my order wasn't in and everything was snapped up without me even knowing, likely to be resold on ebay in the coming months. I'd not be so sour if the just gave us some proper warning. let us know ahead of time.

[@TTAlliance]

Ouch 😬

[@kieranomara8062]

As soon as I saw the announcement went to buy Khand but the same all sold out.

[@flameknightdragon]

and this is why i moved to buying recasts after they nuked starmcast, beasts of chaos, and the HH stuff rom 40k. fuck GW.

[@bradsmith2764]

Do you guys remember legions? When you could only take models from the same age. That would be more better

[@gillesdupouy8357]

My girlfriend and I just got into MESBG this summer and we wanted to start multiple small-medium (500 ish points) armies for more fun. I was already so sad to see that so many cool models were out of production, especially for Serpent Horde, and now so many evil armies (our favourites) are being gutted. I managed to snatch a couple sets from the website after the news dropped but I'm still so disappointed

[@TTAlliance]

@@gillesdupouy8357 yeah... at least the 2 of you can still use them if you're just playing each other 😊

[@gillesdupouy8357]

@@TTAlliance we'll cherish those we managed to save :') and I'll try to find some second hand online but it won't be cheap... Thanks for your awesome videos guys, we watch all of them !

[@Flamethrower1942]

Its like game of thrones no one is safe from GW killing favourites off 😂

[@hopelessedgelord]

It's what GW does. Welcome to fanatsy battles. The issue is that ME isn't that big of a setting in the wargame space compared to warhammer. But like the older editions of Warhamer 40k (pre primaris basically) and Fanatsy battles, is that once you have that one model, you'll never need to buy it again. Because even if it is an old sculpt, it will be forever transferable from edition to edition. So the models won't sell outside of a few new players. I'd be surprised if Middle Earth actually made GW a substantial profit or if its just enough in the green. As we know, GW hates having to answer to other peoples licences. But its a prestige thing probably to hold onto the LOTOR licence. But supporting just enough means that then no other company can use it.

[@seanclarke8015]

Short answer - no. Why are you acting like the whole game has been destroyed? 25% of the entire range profiles are legacy. Thats all. You can still play those armies. The whole newcomer argument is lazy. This kind of content always blows things out of proportion. Youre being very dramatic.

[@TTAlliance]

You're obviously not a competitive player. Imagine spending hundreds on a far harad army for example. For a competition. Then hundreds of hours painting. To be told you can't use it any more. Some people may have even done that very recently. I wouldn't say that's dramatic, that's going to cause people to stop playing the game

[@seanclarke8015]

@TTAlliance I go to events all the time. I'm attending one this Sunday in fact and then again in 2 weeks time in scotland. So I'm well accustomed to the tournament scene here in the UK. I don't see your point? You can still use far harad? Legacy just means they won't receive active support - so you still have your profiles and your minis. Of all the TOs I've seen mention this in the GBHL, they won't stop anyone from using legacy armies. Like I say. This is all very dramatic. The sky is not falling, people aren't leaving MESBG and your armies can still be used. Content creators make all this noise for clicks.

[@TTAlliance]

@@seanclarke8015 Nice. OK but just look at how legacy models have been handled in other GW games... after a few months, no on touches them. Its just a massive shame, and they're removing really popular characters with no real reason. If we had an explanation I wouldn't be mad. Erestor is a good example. Why? Erkenbdand? Grimbold? They just don't make sense

[@seanclarke8015]

@@TTAlliance I think it's important to remember that MESBG isn't a mainline game. They need to make room, I like to turn this on its head and imagine all the cool stuff this makes room for, especially when you see what awesome stuff they've shown so far. Yeah it sucks, most of my armies face the axe but I'm grateful that we still get legacy rules. I don't actually agree with your point regarding them. Old world have legacy armies. Vampire counts being one of them - they are one of the stronger performing armies in the game at the moment. People do play these armies dude, sure, it'll be difficult to get the models now - but people who like these armies will have the models alredy and newcomers are going to come in to this game by buying the new fancy plastics. If your concern truly is about driving people away, I feel video titles like this serve as more of a deterrent than scrapping a few old metals would.

[@Demonarrows1]

@@TTAlliance where did they say you cant use it anymore? source please.

[@Nazgull2k1]

The great beast of Gorgoroth was a bullshit call.

[@TTAlliance]

Yeah 🥲

[@GeoffreyBronson]

Here's the deal, MESBG doesn't get new editions every few years like 40k or AoS and hopefully it'll stay that way. IF so, the legacies will be up to date with the current edition for a good while so I don't actually see a major problem. I just ordered a Great Beast of Gorgoroth and have no intention of playing GW tourneys so I think it'll be fine. If they do start making the editions frequent like their other games, I'll just go back to last edition.

[@Stasananas5]

Wow, I’m really surprised about the King's Champion! Khazad-dûm is my favorite faction, and I’ve won local tournaments with it. In my opinion, the King's Champion is the key unit for this faction, so it's super odd

[@Bryan-v6s]

i'm not hapoy about it but people always say i overreact as i can still play them with the legacy rules. people just ignore what this really means... a slow death of my army over the next two years as updates abd faq's are made for the non-legacy armies. i collected and painted my army (khand) over 7 years... of course i'm a bit worried about this

[@Edward-Plantagenet]

There’s too much gone from the game now IMO to make switching to the new version worthwhile for those that don’t need to. Yes you can still use the old figures with the legacy profiles (which IIRC will be a free PDF when Armies of Middle Earth is released) but we can still play all those legacy profiles now with the books we already have, without needing to buy £100 worth of NEW books. If some of the new rules look too good to miss out on we’ll just house rule them in but, just for starters, dumbing now all ITW tests to a 4+ doesn’t inspire confidence. What is clear is that the reasons GW gave for what will be sticking around / going (e.g. must be in the movies / books) were only half the story. It’s blatantly obvious that a lot of the decisions are sales based when profiles that WERE in the books or movies get deleted but all of the GW made up BS Easterling heroes survive, while at the same time the only named Easterling hero that WAS in the books, Khamul, gets deleted, like WTF? Thankfully the current version is still, and will continue to be, perfectly usable and will cost nothing extra so we can resist the will of GW to take us down the road of the game being driven by some bloody anime cartoon! I know some think it’s great that it will be the start of a sizeable release programme of new models but that is mere guesswork, nobody knows for sure. As of now what we have is what remains (and the cull may not even be over yet) plus a new starter with one set of fantasy Saxons pitched against another set of fantasy Normans. Don’t forget either, they introduced the 4 Battlehost sets a couple of years ago, each with one or more new plastic heroes and since then, nothing! So I won’t be getting too excited about the prospect of a steady flow of new releases, far from it in fact!

[@nyverdaletabletop1674]

I hate this I just wanted get into MESBG. Luckely I was able to grab some soon to be legacied models on some stores and Ebay for a decent price (before the prices will ramp up). I hope the new rulesset will be worth getting into. Can't imagine how this feels for you guys when you just invested so much into the studio! But don't give up use this for the new releases which will surely come.

[@irg17600]

This 10:02 ❤

[@skycommander2153]

This is practically a culling of the line as a huge fan of the game as in did a Massive 300 plus miniature recreation of Battle of the Five Armies this is extremely disappointing to me as a fan

[@santialvi2]

I really liked the idea of having 9 legendary legions of evil men led by one of the Nazgul each, but the blow on Far Harad, Khand and Dunland has been brutal (also, I fear for the new army of Carn Dum or the black Numenoreans, they have survided this one, but for how long?). Also, it looks like they have cut plenty of named characters in favour of generic profiles which makes it easier to start, but more difficult to have unique and personalised armies. Well, let's be positive and hope it helps bringing more people into the game

[@DerOrk]

Opinion from an outsider who doesn't play MESBG but tries to keep an eye on it ... I don't think its as devastating as some doomsayers might want everyone to believe. Like, it sucks for people who were still in the process of growing their armies that they may no longer be able to get certain discontinued minis, but I'm not sure the culling will change much about the way the system is gonna be played. Like, when GW puts a unit into Legends in 40k for example, its certainly on a death clock - a new edition every three years, balance changes like every three months, Primaris replacing Firstborn, new kits not including war gear options of old kits... but I don't think MESBG evolves as quickly as 40k, and its playerbase takes leans more towards fluffy and narrative play than 40k's and certainly AoS'... over the next five years I don't think the LotR units that were put into legends today will have become any less playable, or the community less accepting of them. And lets be real, MESBG is rather low fantasy, 90% of its roster boils down to "guy with spear or sword or bow" - if GW were to lets say kill Osgiliath Veterans today, you'd just play them as Warriors of Minas Tirith tomorrow. What I'm trying to say is, GW has culled large parts of 40k, AoS, Kill Team and what else over the last couple years... but of all the systems under their wings, I think MESBG is the one most resistent to it. Though ofcourse it would have been preferable if the situation had been closer to The Old World were the writers keep wargear options and unit profiles around and "official" whether they actually sell the minis in question or not.

[@XJMX]

This has nothing to do with licensing whatsoever and everything to do with GW resetting the game into the cycle its other games follow where you have to rebuy rules and 'new' models every few years.

[@thunderstryken]

I'm also currently annoyed at finding out that GW put the old LotR Tradable Miniatures Game out of business very prematurely back in the day. They sound like real stinkers.

[@joshcoles1255]

Not to be too doom and gloom but I’m really pissed off with Erestor thought we’d have eventually get an updated sculpt for him down the line if we ever did Last Alliance. The new FW orc characters that they recently added from the supplements is a shame because they have given the game more character without really hurting lore. Really happy Rumil Oraphin survived they’re some of my favourite profiles to use. Maybe an unpopular opinion but glad the new Easterling FW stuff also survived. I get why a lot of it happened but yeah still gutting

[@TTAlliance]

@@joshcoles1255 yeah totally agree! Erestor is a huge loss 🥲

[@theminiatureparent]

What GW needed to do was release info on the army build structure and how it is going to work going forward before releasing this list. I imagine a lot of these choices will be re-contextualised in the new format, but having one half of the picture, it makes no sense, we are just guessing

[@pskovca]

It was only a matter of time before all the finecast models were going be removed. Middle-Earth is the one of the lowest selling lines in the GW stable and has a massive amount of minatures. The line needs to be trimmed or it will disappear. They are not saying that some of the minis wont be reissued through MTO. It is also not out of the realm of possibility that they had renegotiate their license with New Line to gain access to the new characters and and agreed to remove all of the non-canon miniatures. Your statement that this will destroy MESBG is laughable.

[@theendofmyropemydude]

This is an argument *for* using legacy models. If theres a competitive scene and GW doesnt own it, then they should allow legacy units. Ban specific models if they get broken somehow, but don't lose your entire hobby because GW is lazy.

[@GrandeOldWorld]

Correct GW destroyed their best game, and for what?? Typical GW 💩

[@stevepearce7032]

Posted this on another discussion of this article: Not a great time getting into the hobby as a beginner! I started with the battle hosts a few weeks back and was looking ahead to christmas. I earmarked khazad dum as my next army but everything i was interested in is now gone. I ordered two wraiths for Angmar and theyve gone before theyve arrived. My boys (12 and 9) have just written out christmas lists and my eldest was looking at all the dunelding stuff to expand his isengard army but thats all now gone(I know theyre likely gonna get their own faction). I get that for longer term and hardcore players these are needed/makes sense changes. And sure I can still play with whatever at home. But I'm now thinking do I bother touching anything in the next 6 months or not?

[@ez190kg]

Why companies always have to lie. Just own it and say we’re cutting production to maximise profit margins. You cant say you are moving profiles to legacy and focusing on characters from the books and movies but remove characters from the books and movies while keeping made up ones. Or say that you’re gonna focus on certain eras and cut profiles from the era your game is focus around. Erkenbrand, Grimbold, Erestor, Mauhur, Khamul, Angborn, Mablung, Balin, Floi and Dunedain are from the books and all from the era when the movies happen. Why offer explanations that completely contradict your actions?? And to remove the king’s champion is such a lame move. He’s the most fun non-named profile in the history of the game. Khazad dum is so limited already there is no need to take off two more profiles. Shieldbearer is a fun character as well with a unique function. However if they just were honest and said we do this bcs the range is too wide and need to simplify for profit it wouldn’t be as annoying.

[@PMMagro]

The game is very very very much in need of streamlining. New players not able to even buy the fthe pecial units is a hopeless policy long term (they get remade upon order once in a few yeras...excpet soem taht enver comes back in stock).

[@tsizzle5343]

I think that the majority of these models are pretty reasonable to be removed from the game (a few have me a little confused), and that this is better for the game as a whole. MESBG really struggles with having a bunch of random stuff that is unavailable, very hard to get or ugly, making it very hard for new people to get into. If GW actually invests in the game and creates more models for more factions, it is 100% worth the loss.

[@TTAlliance]

Yeah IF they do this then it could end up being for the greater good. Losing models like Erestor, Grimbold, Erkenbrand, Mauhur though, just to name a few. Is not cool

[@ShadowPhoenixMaximus]

Invests with what though? New characters from an anime movie that not everyone is looking forward to? Lord forbid Rings of Power? If they are completely set on subsidising their creative team by relying on movie/book inventions then they need to expand that scope by including videogames. Models from games like The Third Age, Lord of the Rings Online, War in the North, Shadow of War, Battle for Middle-Earth, etc - those 100% would SELL by the bulk.

[@TTAlliance]

@@ShadowPhoenixMaximus That’s not how it works. The license is with New Line Cinema. Not Amazon or video game companies. So they have the rights to the Jacksonverse and anything he had access to (I assume)

[@taliesinmcgregor-sims1879]

I'm now buying historical dark ages models because im not supporting this. Im sorry, but this juat unacceptable. I've been waiting months at a time to get models that now i can't even get, they literally could have at the beginning of this year start mass stock prodof everything they have and then announced publicly " these will be out of stock forever in 2-3 months" that way people could have gotten the stuff the wanted. Maybe not every model they wanted but the ones they wanted the most. But god forbid the do aomethin favour for the consumer. I'll just be buying historicals nkw for this game. I'll spend my money elsewhere now.

[@kieranomara8062]

Agree completely hsve the beginning oh Khand and Far Harad but can't even complete them as the figures are now unavaliable. Bye bye GW

[@newblank8079]

Thanks for giving such an honest reaction.

[@TTAlliance]

🙌

[@elliotspencer8129]

To me, this change really harms the game from a collectors point of view. Now if one wants a complete collection, have to either use proxies or pay even higher prices to get the discontinued minis off ebay. At this stage, it's unlikely that I'm going to buy the book for the new version. I'll maybe give it a chance if a lot of people say it's good.

[@TTAlliance]

Yeah true. Hopefully the new edition is good 😬🤞

[@vangrail27]

Luckly my group uses legends in all the systems. But its just sad to see and really annoying. 40k was awful with you needing to buy new stuff and im afraid this wont be much better 40k I have 30k points of firstborn and people are ok with that being removed wtf. I just hope that losing stuff means we will have actual support for the system so we get actal replacements eventually for MESBG. Gonna miss my blackshields have 24 of them. Then all of my moria Dawrves are legends wtf

[@thelonelybolter8245]

17:11 Go for it. Are unboxings a week before other channels that much of a boon?

[@benkochskamper3092]

Seen this all before, probably why I prefer to play GW's dead games where nothing changes. I only got into mesbg a couple of years ago, just before the new osgiliath set came out, so I have nowhere near as much attachment to game as you guys have. But, I have been through this for WHFB and now the old world, what a disappointment that game was. I only play a couple of current GW games, mesbg and blood bowl, but these updates tend to put me off games completely, sort of on the edge of selling my mesbg minis.

[@TTAlliance]

@@benkochskamper3092 I Definitely think there is still hope. But it depends if we get new plastic kits etc

[@benkochskamper3092]

@@TTAlliance Yeah only time will tell. In the meantime, keep producing the battle reports, I enjoy the format.

[@thevoiceoftod]

I haven't read the article yet but this kinda feels like a lot of it is down to licencing changes? Didn't they said they had to focus more on the movies? I might be wrong though. Also, I get the negativity but you're talking about profiles for the "old" game. This is a new edition of the game a huge new launch for them. I'm of the mind to see how the new game plays and all the amazing new models that are coming before making my mind up. These changes suck now, but come December we might all see why they have done this. Keep positive, call out GW when it's needed but at the moment we don't know enough about these choices yet. In my eyes MESBG is alive and kicking and I can't wait to play the new edition.

[@RockmeHellsing]

Well i still play the zenarios of the magazines and the adventure books from the early 2000s, i shit on gw.

[@TheXboxlive5]

I’m confident they’ll get some cool new profiles to replace the current destruction but rip my dunland Isengard bois

[@minimannik]

No they’re finally updating it!

[@dorampmu]

Great honest video guys, I think the new edition will hopefully see lots of new profiles and some new content which will soften the blow. Plus you can still play the older models atleast, even if it’s just via a PDF new profile

[@TTAlliance]

Thanks. Playing old models won’t last long. Never does in most games they do this with. Hopefully all this stuff will make way for more new releases

[@commissarkordoshky219]

Luckily i dont play this game but still ;-; childhood gone

[@TTAlliance]

:'(

[@Gorbz]

Arn't they going to be pumping out wotr models?

[@John4700Deere]

Ghan-buri-Ghan is safe, phew!

[@rossgodding9676]

We just have to hold our breath to see the new version of our favorite lists to truly assess the damage....😮

[@TTAlliance]

@@rossgodding9676 Yeah- 🤞🤞🤞

[@rossgodding9676]

@TTAlliance keep the faith players love the game it will go on its bigger than GW

[@ruas4721]

My favorite list is 100% legends now :)

[@hellonearth-thehistoryofwa1270]

that god for recasts

[@stuartriddell2461]

I don't want to defend GW, but looking at all of the minis being removed, is it possible that these changes have been made to conform to a new licensing/legal agreement? Almost all of them are not in the movies.

[@TTAlliance]

@@stuartriddell2461 There are models from the movies/books that have been removed and ones that are GW originals that have stayed. So while it may have something to do with some of them, it can’t be the reason for all

[@stuartriddell2461]

@@TTAlliance I was being charitable, looking for a logical reason other than greed. I'm not holding my breath though.

[@TTAlliance]

@ haha fair. We have a video coming out later this week where we discuss in greater detail, while calmer 😅

[@BobboBagginz]

The pain is real, not sure if you are overreacting. Unfortunately we have to wait and see what the next few months bring us. Have you considered expanding to other small tabletop games?

[@TTAlliance]

Maybe. But until they give us a good reason for removing some of these, it just seems silly. Yeah, have considered it

[@star_wars_miniatures]

It has pissed me off too! I’m glad I bought most of my collection a few years back now but I do feel sorry for any relatively new players and collectors 😔😔

[@TTAlliance]

Yeah...even people that are getting into it with the new edition, will have considerably more limited options when building armies. Such a shame

[@Andyyybeeeee]

i appreciate the need for click bait i do not think its as damning as you guys say

[@elvenarmorywargaming9913]

I hate to say it but it makes sense 90%. There were some cash grab armies like the Dunland that were stupidly OP, not design consistent and not lore justifiable. I like the variety that we had but the game was half lord of the rings half things nobody knew what they were while core factions like Rohan were unusable.

[@stylesheetra9411]

Dunland Op??

[@elvenarmorywargaming9913]

@@stylesheetra9411 The legion is more powerful than it should be. In some underground circuits it's been proven to outperform its points value which when it comes to a bunch of made up vikings, who should be dirty wildmen padding up Isengard warbands, is OP.

[@MilesDei95]

tbh it killed my interest in accualy playing it, so i will wait for the new edition to even consider buying anything. I was hyped for the new starte box and wanted to play a foot rohan with S4 bros. also i planed a nice 3rd party dunland army. i hope they will bring new models and rules

[@kennygpokerstrategy4917]

Let's not freak out too hard. Let's see how things go.

[@oneeyedwonderer6781]

Yes they have , can always play the current edition

[@alexfarrow1372]

Really enjoy your content,but before all the details of the next edition are released there's only speculation and assumptions. We don't know the full picture yet. Unfortunatly it's breeding alot of negativity.

[@TTAlliance]

Thanks. Those how are these assumptions? These models were all confirmed to be leaving the range 😅

[@freerider8094]

i have a 3d resin printer anybody have a link to where i can print recasts for myself?

[@redouroboros8923]

Really no surprise but still that’s a massive amount of figures a lot of them just what the heck but it’s all about GW stocks I’m thinking; I have used dwellers really annoys me

[@michaelharding9619]

Suggest sticking with 2nd edition, boycotting 3rd edition, and giving GW 2 fingers!

[@Mixxathon]

No they did not, but you are with a video title like that. Get a grip. A few models are being replaced by other models. Nothing to cry about. Will not watch.

[@chriskoeder1229]

90+ is not a few.

[@redouroboros8923]

@@chriskoeder1229and not not all being resculpted

[@joshua9490]

I have a khand army I spent nearly a $1000 on. I’m not pleased with the cuts. Don’t be such a d*ck to other people who may also not be pleased with the cuts

[@klecko3627]

Why so pissed?

[@TTAlliance]

Almost 100 models "a few" 🤔 OK bud. It may not kill the game, but it will lose a bunch of hard-core competitive players

[@krunoslav2658]

Good thing i just bought week ago Thranduil on horse and foot XD

[@Scipionyxsam]

I'm boycotting this edition and I'm lobbying for everyone in my local club to do the same.

[@TTAlliance]

We are definitely going to give it a go and see if they have made these tragic decisions to hopefully make way for something new and better. But only time will tell. Hopefully the new edition is good.

[@star_wars_miniatures]

There was nothing wrong with our current/old edition 😅 no need for a new edition in my opinion! Feel like this is just the GW share holders finding ways to sell us more books!

[@ruas4721]

@@star_wars_miniatures In fact it is.

[@sookendestroy1]

GW did lord of the rings stuff?

[@TTAlliance]

I can’t tell if this is a serious comment 😅

[@SullyRose15]

GW is so dumb

[@UnitRico]

Posted this on another video as well so I figured I'd copy it here as well: I honestly thought the list would be WAY larger than it ended up being, just a full cull of anything not in the movies. Still a shame to lose a lot of those models, especially considering how...random some of the picks are. Easterlings being the obvious pick, with the only named character they're losing being the only one that's actually in the books. Overall it just seems like for the factions that are large enough to keep around (RIP Khand and Far Harad) the stuff they're getting rid of is Finecast, which is pretty positive I suppose. As for actual impact we simply don't know until we know what the profiles and lists look like, what new stuff is coming and what GW's plans are. If MESBG won't enter the 3-year edition cycle with big updates like GW's other games I don't really see the issue with Legacy considering all of these models will continue to be playable in like 99% of games I play (though availability still sucks obviously; GW's Twitter account mentioned MtO's for some of these models may still be on the table but it still seems unlikely).

[@Lowlandrr]

I am all for the new edition. What good are profiles if you dont have models for them? And we all lose profiles we love. So what? And legacies wont be played in tournaments because they will not fit in the new lists. And who will determine which profile is allowed and in what way? That is so much work for a TO and will cause so much trubble. Just accept and go on or dont play anymore. And to be clear: I have an unpainted Mahud army with 10 camels and 10 half trolls so I would have alle the right to complain.

[@TTAlliance]

@@Lowlandrr We will accept and move on, doesn't mean we don't have a right to be disappointed at some of our favourite minis not being playable any more...

[@Lowlandrr]

@@TTAllianceyou defenitly have that right. I just feel its a little bit to negative. It feels like people are saying this is the end of MESBG while nobody really knows what is comming. Still love your video’s Guys.

[@TTAlliance]

@michel8666 Yeah, we don't want to be negative... we have always been nothing but positive about this game. But GW sure do make some poor decisions

[@ruas4721]

Or maybe stop eating every shit a fuckin consumerhating company like GW serves you?

[@whatever99152]

I understand your disappointment regarding the recent MESBG announcement from GW. I have a Far Harad army and I am gutted to see them being dropped, but at the end of the day it is my hobby and I will keep playing with them. I think that we as a hobby community need to keep this in mind moving forward. This mentality can be applied to any game system not just MESBG. If you and your mates had fun playing the older edition then stick with it. I’m sure there will be others out there who share your fondness for a particular edition of a game system you are playing that tournaments and other gaming events could be organised. Don’t let the decisions of a business which is publicly listed, operates for profit and is responsible in delivering said profits to its shareholders influence your hobby. In the immortal words of Captain Planet “The power is yours,”.

[@markgrehan3726]

It's not looking great, is it? But honestly, I'm surprised that G.W. is even still producing models for MESBG. This is odd though as I don't really look at the MESBG model range and think "Blimey that's a lot of model bloat"

[@nosbigdamus9665]

No No No

[@sog242]

Keep it up guys! You are doing great. I think this could still be good news. If they are putting things in legacy, awating new sculpts, I am ok with that. If they are removing there own creations to make room for new profiles, I am ok with that as well. They ahve obviously looked at profile overlap to make the remaining units stand out, but... yeah. My real fear is that the new edition will not open up for a lot of customization within armies/legions, but it is a bit early to say.

[@TTAlliance]

Thanks! Yeah true, army building is such a fun aspect of mesbg, let's hope it hasn't been butchered 😬

[@ruas4721]

Butchering army building is GWs favorite hobby. They did it to 40k, they did it to Warhammer Fantasy with Old World and now they will do it with middle earth. Players arent allowed to have choices. Old World is also a good example of how "well" GW handles legacy content.

[@sidewinder3694]

How long are you willing to wait? 5 years? 10?

[@sog242]

@@sidewinder3694 I guess that legacy pdf would come in handy if it took so long.

[@DJChipsandGarlic]

ohh shiiiii

[@BobboBagginz]

Echoing what most people have said. I’ll be fine with it if they are getting tons and tons of model updates. If not then I will be disappointed.

[@sidewinder3694]

Talk to the ravenguard, salamanders and iron warriors they've been waiting since 2012

[@elvenarmorywargaming9913]

I just watched the whole video and feel terrible that you guys have invested so much money BUT from a strict business sense this is gonna work out just fine for you. The game is going to get massively boosted vs where it is now and you'll get a chance to get a lot more eyes on your content regardless of what happens to Erestor.

[@TTAlliance]

Let's hope 🤞🤞🤞

[@addhandletocont]

only way is to get new stuff freshly sculpted that will be enough to cover what was lost

[@JoKeRakaAlessandro]

they gonna do rings of power mini's...

[@gilgalad6231]

Overreaction

[@TTAlliance]

Not really. It's all personal feelings. If someone is dissapoibted in something, you can't tell them they're over reacting just because you're not as disappointed

[@gilgalad6231]

@@TTAllianceoverreaction

[@SethTheFall]

@@gilgalad6231GW slave