Has science made religion useless? | Robert Sapolsky, Reza Aslan, Pete Holmes & more | Big Think

Has science made religion useless?
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Science and religion (fact versus faith) are often seen as two incongruous groups. When you consider the purpose of each and the questions that they seek to answer, the comparison becomes less black and white.
This video features religious scholars, a primatologist, a neuroendocrinologist, a comedian, and other brilliant minds considering, among other things, the evolutionary function that religion serves, the power of symbols, and the human need to learn, explore, and know the world around us so that it becomes a less scary place.
"I think most people are actually kind of comfortable with the idea that science is a reliable way to learn about nature, but it's not the whole story and there's a place also for religion, for faith, for theology, for philosophy," says Francis Collins, American geneticist and director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH). "But that harmony perspective doesn't get as much attention. Nobody is as interested in harmony as they are in conflict."
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TRANSCRIPT:
FRANS DE WAAL: Well, religion is an interesting topic because religion is universal. All human societies believe in the supernatural. All human societies have a religion one way or another.
REZA ASLAN: Religion has been a part of the human experience from the beginning. In fact, we can trace the origin of religious experience to before homo sapiens. We can trace it with some measure of confidence to Neanderthals. We can measure it with a little less confidence all the way to homo erectus. So we're talking hundreds of thousands of years before our species even existed.
ROBERT SAPOLSKY: Essentially there has been no culture on Earth that has not invented some form of what could be termed meta-magical thinking, attributing things that cannot be seen, faith-based belief systems, things of that sort. It's universal.
ASLAN: Religious thinking is embedded in our cognitive processes. It is a mode of knowing. We're born with it. It's part of our DNA. The question then becomes why. There must be some evolutionary reason for it. There must be a reason, some adaptive advantage to having religious experience or faith experience. Otherwise it wouldn't exist.
SAPOLSKY: It makes perfect sense why they've evolved because they're wonderful mechanisms for reducing stress. It is an awful, terrifying world out there where bad things happen and we're all going to die eventually. And believing that there is something, someone responsible for it at least gives some stress reducing attributes built around understanding causality.
ALAIN DE BOTTON: Religion starts from the view that we are torn between good and evil. There is definitely a good core, but it's permanently tempted. And so what the individual needs is a structure which will constantly try and tug a person back towards the best of themselves.
DE WAAL: Our current religions are just 2,000 or 3,000 years old which is very young and our species is much older. And I cannot imagine that, for example, 100,000 years or 200,000 years our ancestors did not have some type of morality. Of course the had rules about how you should behave, what is fair, what is unfair, caring for others. All of these tendencies were in place already so they had a moral system. And then at some point we developed these present day religions which I think were sort of tacked onto the morality that we had. In societies with 1,000 or several thousand or millions of people we cannot all keep an eye on each other and that's maybe why we installed religions in these large scale societies where a god kept watch over everybody and maybe they served to codify them or to enforce them or to steer morality in a particular direction that we prefer. And so instead of saying morality comes from god or religion gave us morality, for me that's a big no-no.
PENN JILLETTE: People are good. If you look at the seven billion people on this planet just about seven billion of them are really good. We can really trust them. Can we please learn something from Las Vegas. Learn something about gambling, right. We know how the odds work. We know the house always wins. In this case the odds are always on someone being good.
BILL NYE: When it comes to ethics and morals and religion to see if there's anything different between what religions want you to do and what you feel you should do...
Read the full transcript at bigthink.com/videos/has-scien...

[@bigthink]

Do you think that science has made religion useless?

[@strongfoot2009]

No. Most humans need some faith to rely on and to help them cope with the challenges of life.

[@AZOffRoadster]

I never really had a need for religion. Hell, I wasn't even aware of it for a long time. Then I met this weird neighbor kid. He seemed always afraid, and always had lots of bruises. Had to call his dad, 'Sir'. Really creepy. It wasn't until later that I became a scientist. Still have no need for religion. The more I learn about it, the more I think it's a source of evil, and a tool used by evil people to control and manipulate others.

[@javieroa8214]

Science and philosophy, now we have tools to understand the universe and to give meaning to a meaningless existence, which perhaps was too much for any specie that reaches inteligence but still have to struggle really hard to survive. Even rules of convivence or so called morals could be set by using scientiphyc reasoning, for example killing and racism its bad for the specie, hence taken as a non accetable behavior. (sorry for bad english)

[@AZOffRoadster]

@@avenger4027 I've noticed that religious people always jump to the conclusion that only religion can teach morals. That's obviously incorrect.

[@eduardomorua161]

Completely agree religion is useless , and in times like this where we are trying revisit preconceptions is completely imperative that we get rid of those flouted belief systems.

[@MAR1N4M1]

"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned." - Richard Feynman

[@christopherbettridge5983]

Feynman..... amazing man. Great quote; definitely filing that one away thanks

[@LokiDWolf]

Never heard of this quote but I love it!!!! Perfect response to all religions!!!

[@christopherbettridge5983]

Well, it could definitely be used in that manner, particularly in regard to those fookin' eedjits who, with (in the 40,000-odd sects of the Protestant heresy particularly) constantly refuse to acknowledge the inherent contradictions of what the Bible's many Books of Scripture have written in them that when taken LITERALLY (which is ludicrous and actually sometimes outright blasphemous) inevitably arise. Catholics, sadly, though knowing better than to fall into this bit of cognitive dissonance (what Orwell called Doublethink), unfortunately also allow their dogmas to be rock-like in the inflexibility of certain doctrines to allow critical, analytic methods to be applied. But the quote we speak of by Feynman isn't by any means capable of being used as a blanket, cozy as the idea may seem, condemnation of the possibility of Divinity. I myself feel that God WISHES us to continue to question, and honestly; doubt is openly acknowledged by many theologians as a necessary part of faith. From a Catholic who isn't afraid of True Righteousness~which certainly includes the horrifically cruel and heartless act of calling the medical procedure of fetal abortion "murdering babies". I have said enough in this lengthy reply to hopefully show that all you have to do is ignore Satan and his perniciously subtle intrigues into those who, under the guise of True Belief, would insist that there would be allowed something like answers that can't be questioned to poison our natures and blind is to the continuous unfolding of an anthropic human history as God (for those who choose or have chosen to believe~as a life-long atheist I am the latter) intended. Regardez moi, c'est fini pour le moment! Pour votre patience, je vous remerci Au revoir avec l'Canada!

[@needmorequarts1081]

@@LokiDWolf answer that can't be questioned,Like asking why water is wet? Or questions that can't be answered like did Schrodinger cats exists? atheists should probably take it easy for not everything should be questioned to get an understanding of it and not everything should be answered to gives it a meaning,life doesn't exists in exam papers where everything is a question that should be answered. it is fine for not knowing something because our knowledge are limited by our perception,it is not a sin to asked a question about god because it is completely normal,god the most high is a higher being than all creatures in the existence combined and it is understandable for the mind of a higher being is incomprehensible to the creatures beneath them like an ants tries to understand human actions and bodies. Or maybe you believe that human lives alone in this vast universe? Does the existence of other sentience being higher than human makes you afraid?

[@ArcFoundationDirector]

A Retard. Decorating Phrases have nothing to do with Meta-Logical Revelation From-By-For-of Truth or Logical Discovery From-By-For-of Truth. What purpose would the pretentious questioning that 1 >< 0 equal 1 serve and bring to Adamity and Jinnity and who would care about such a retarded questioning?

[@26beegee]

My experience with religion and science is that religion believes it KNOWS the truth, science searches for the truth and is willing to be flexible getting there and will even admit when it was wrong. Having an open mind seems much more beneficial and practical.

[@ayodejiesan416]

You are very right but most people are just too closed-minded

[@papasslll]

Yes..as Havel said"Follow those who seek truth but flee from those who have found it!"

[@paulramirez632]

"The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you. " Neil Degrasse Tyson

[@MaaveMaave]

-Sigma

[@paulskillman7595]

I have always valued your judgement, Neil Degrasse Tyson. Thank you!

[@themacocko6311]

Tyson will say anything for a buck.

[@gregcoffta6188]

Tyson waffles on this question, though. Calls himself an agnostic, wimping out to avoid his perceived stigma of atheists.

[@alexanderfretheim5720]

And yet... it usually does!

[@samancinnamon]

'Ultimately we all are agnostics' this is the best reason.

[@varyolla435]

Actually we are all born atheists in so much as no child born comes with inherent knowledge of any "God" nor religion. They must be taught these concepts at a latter point. Accordingly atheism is essentially the default of humanity since it merely reflects an absence of religious belief while that absence can be rationalized differently from person to person. So supposed religious agnostics in my mind are little more than "fence sitters" who are no better than the theists. When one considers the totality of human history whereby we have ample evidence - ample - that mankind has created a myriad of "Gods" and religions over the millennia then the implication is quite clear. "God" is little more than a manmade construct dating to antiquity which has largely been passed along via Pavlovian conditions over the interceding generations...........so what then is there to quibble over???? Moral of the story: one can plausibly be agnostic about say multiverse in that we can not conclusively prove it or not - yet - though the conditions for it's possibility lend to it existing. You can not say the same about "God" however as there is simply too much historical evidence to dispel possibility here. Enjoy your day.

[@MrDoctorBryce]

@@varyolla435 very well said 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@heroyt2490]

I'm too

[@shawnchristophermalig4339]

What do you mean by that?

[@amarenderreddy5298]

All abrahmic religions have been destroying many civilisations across the world. I bet without these desert religions world would have been a much better place. All other so called religions are an outcome of series of bashing from these barbrahmic religions.

[@Jared__Bowden]

Without religion, how would televangelists afford their jets and mansions?

[@deanwcampbell]

Without religion, how could the Catholic priests get away with their crimes?

[@noelmurray1]

And that is all you know about religion? The greedy ones who use religion for their own selfish ends. I much prefer to concentrate on the good that is done through religion. The Salvation Army. St. Vincent de Paul. And the many, many church groups that go and help feed, house, clothe and educate the needy. They go to hospitals to visit patients and bring faith and courage to face their pain and suffering. They go to poor countries to help the sick and starving, to work alongside them to build their lives after disasters and wars. But you just see the bad. Why is that I wonder. You may need to re-evaluate your outlook on life and see the positive and not so much of the negative.

[@ChipmunkRapidsMadMan1869]

That's not religion. That is manipulation.

[@JackOusley]

They would probably have to switch to selling supplements that don’t do anything

[@deterministicatheos5540]

By working... but God forbid they lift a finger.

[@THEBATMAN28AHH]

My problem is not with faith or religion. It's when people start replacing common sense and humility with faith and acting like they are not human. Especially when those said people's decisions affect you in a negative way. Life is short and you take it one day at a time. No matter what you believe, when you deny those two simple facts you're only hurting yourself.

[@THEBATMAN28AHH]

@Logic Police I really believe that faith is a coping mechanism for when reality disagrees our ego. It's frightening to have everything you think and know challenged, and so faith is relied on to make people feel better about what they can't control. Having faith in something can make you feel like whatever god/thing you believe in has at least a little control when things are very uncertain, like the future or so many other things that we worry about as being human.

[@marcdemell5976]

Hey ,,,you gotta have faith brother ! Cheer up ,the sun will shine tomorrow , YAH willing ,amein.

[@THEBATMAN28AHH]

@@marcdemell5976 I do have faith, I just do not attach a name to it. Life is mystery, and I am not sad. I am happy to take on whatever comes my way.

[@marcdemell5976]

@@THEBATMAN28AHH OKI DOKI SMOKI, take care and stay aware .

[@paulskillman7595]

You cannot cure diseases with faith.

[@makeyourmommaproud6500]

"So this God made humans, and gave them 10 rules to obey, and if you don't obey these rules, God made a special place full of screaming, agony, pain, and burning and crying. And he will put you there to suffer pain, cry in vain, and experience despair -But he loves you" -Some dude

[@mcplesk8765]

George Carlin

[@samirzen3701]

The Universe has laws and if one element in the model doesn't fit on it, in order to keep a stable system and not compromise the rest of it, this element will be taken away.

[@nazmussakib5729]

What if the rules are there for your own good ?

[@seanb6478]

They are...simple common sense.

[@angelinarobert622]

George Carlin wasn't just some dude he spoke the no holds barred non-sacrinated raw truth.

[@davidpilkinton8465]

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" - Seneca the Younger Roman Philosopher

[@PraiseDog]

Actually Seneca never wrote that, at least there is no evidence that he did. This is one of those Internet cut an paste myths. I believe Gibbon (Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire) is first recorded to have written this, or something similar, at least that is my best recollection, but don't hold me to it. But not Seneca.

[@orevathankgod9811]

Read letter from a stoic and know seneca

[@AtamMardes]

"Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool." Mark Twain

[@mabellegall]

😂😂😂😂😂😂 so true.

[@michael.forkert]

Have you seen the picture on which Einstein pulls the strings of a puppet characterized as Mark Twain? If not, Google it, and you will see.

[@jeancorriveau8686]

Priceless!

[@devonbrody822]

Haven't heard this before 🔥

[@jamesspackman9819]

Jokes were created so the first barman could laugh at his customers. Sorry, that the same joke.

[@chemquests]

Religion ask us to entertain a realm beyond our universe. As a scientist I regularly must entertain ideas that I’m pretty confident could work & but then I have to test them. This repeated experience of seeing great ideas not comport with reality has taught me it’s easy to generate a convincing story

[@gennadiv.8580]

✔️👌🏼

[@alexanderfretheim5720]

As a scientist, yes you do, but there's nothing wrong with accepting, with humility, that your science will not be everything, just everything within the realm of your personal responsibilities.

[@chemquests]

@@alexanderfretheim5720 sure, but you can’t discern which of those possible things outside our testable experience are actually real/true. We can all generate many mythologies but we have no right to claim any of them as representing the actual reality we live in. I quite agree we can’t know everything, & it’s fine to speculate on what might be (that creativity is important to generating scientific leads to follow). However it’s a mistake when humans believe their speculation is a fact. It’s unfortunate we as a species have an insistent urge to fill knowledge gaps with stories instead of leaving it at we don’t know. If it’s unfalsifiable, it’s a waste of time

[@TheeDrGroyper]

I would argue that humans are not “embedded” with religion and born with the idea of wanting to “believe” but rather born with the curiosity and questioning “why?” I remember when I was 3. The first questions I asked were “what happens when we die?” And “what is god?”

[@Lifeskeyishappiness]

Interesting assessment as an Agnostic who values the scientific method I believe religion was formed to keep order within tribes, explain the existence of the Universe and God and give some people structure and hope in their lives that they felt they were missing, over time it was reproduced in families and communities geographically. Although I fundamentally believe they are human inventions, I appreciate they do have some positive teachings that there is benefit in incorporating into our lives, obviously there are negative aspects as well such as how it often leads to tribalist thinking and bigotry of external groups. I think religion can co-exist but not replace science. I have a more "live and let live" mentality in life, as long as no one is hurting anyone, try to make a positive impact on the world.

[@varyolla435]

Sorry = but you are rationalizing here. Also for future record. Claiming to be agnostic about religions is a non sequitur. One can not "fence sit" about theism when there simply is too much historical evidence to demonstrate a manmade nature behind it. So religions as always happens given human nature were exploited millennia ago as a mechanism to manipulate and control groups of people. Thus they have caused infinitely more problems than they purport to solve as what many associate with "morality" actually does not have its origins in religions. Rather they simply co-opted what was already out there in the form of social mores. So modern religions have adapted these mores so as to take credit and introduce an element of behavioral control to their dogmas = nothing more. Moral of the story: religions are antithetical to science which is the real basis of human civilization. Rather than helping humanity to advance religions instead hold us back by balkanizing groups of people into various sects who then endlessly war and quibble with each other over whose "God" is supposedly real. So long as mankind continues to engage in the "magical thinking" which is emblematic of religious thought = so long as we will not move forward. Remember nature's rule: that which does not evolve and move forward.........ultimately goes extinct. Something new to think about.

[@dilmagonzalez1805]

If getting your dad drunk and having sex with him and getting pregnant is positive teaching than you're right. Incest is normal in the Bible. Slavery is ok in the Bible. Rape is ok in the Bible but if you get caught you u need to marry your victim concubines are ok in the Bible. I bet you didn't learn about this in Bible study. According to the bible earth is flat. The Bible was written by ignorant fools

[@Glicksman1]

Yes, and Mussolini made the trains run on time. Nothing that relies upon blindness, exclusion, and that eschews evidence is worthwhile or valuable. It is, in fact, dangerous. Where Religion rules, Science is banished. Where Science rules, Religion is equitably considered and permitted. Which, then is the more moral? Please read my comment above and re-read Vary Olla's.

[@Glicksman1]

@@varyolla435 +1

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

@@Glicksman1 you did realize that you have the church to thank for the institution of European University right?

[@HippieP629]

"... No one is as interested in harmony as they are in conflict, I'm afraid." +long sigh+ True.

[@felreizmeshinca7459]

Isn't it? But I still believe in goodness. Intellectuals just enjoy the video and contemplate, not become extremists in the comments section.

[@EinsteinKnowedIt]

@@felreizmeshinca7459 extremism and intellectualism are not opposites. One can be either or, or both.

[@IFYOUWANTITGOGETIT]

Read Schopenhauer. He explains this. Happiness and harmony are simply the momentary lack of perception and awareness of suffering of which the “will” seeks to reduce at all times. The reason humans suffer is due to our “will” which is simply part of our nature driving us to survive and propagate our selves and our knowledge. The religious are afraid that morals will be lost if they openly acknowledge what they claim to be reality as simply allegory. And science minded are afraid that scientific knowledge will be lost if they allow the unchallenged promotion of spirituality. at the end of the day humans are just a highly conscious and intelligent being become ever more awareness of our absurd existence and lack of ultimate meaning other than simply to survive and propagate. That’s the reality we must deal with as a species because if not we threaten to increase the suffering of not only our selves but other life on earth.

[@alexanderfretheim5720]

That quote is false. MOST PEOPLE are far more interested in harmony than conflict. In fact, the real problem in most places is that people excuse too much to avoid conflict, although this isn't always apparent to especially low-ranking people because we tend to dump those who create conflict in to the lower classes where they won't bother us as much up top.

[@shawnsimmons1308]

Religion: "We don't know so therefore God did it." Science: "We don't know so let's find out."

[@chuckm1961]

Shawn Simmons Joseph Campbell: “God is a metaphor for the mysteries beyond human understanding.” Just because some people (most people) apply a concept incorrectly, this does not invalidate the core concept.

[@ericvalverderosado2046]

Science have a limit...our brain and knowledge...there’s a huge infinite ton of things that scape from out thinking capacities

[@fergfighter]

Science absolutely allows for the existence of God, just not under our current understanding. Indeed plenty of renowned scientists are religious or have suggested God as answers to mysteries that are as yet unsolved: Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking both suggested that God may have created the universe

[@Synqronizer]

Janusha this explains nothing. I can ask you: ‘How do you know?’ And can arrogantly guess that your answer will be something about it being written and/or you feel/think or know it to be true. And although thats a fair answer, Its a fundamental start of you explaining the ‘why’. Which in religion and science is a verbal precursor to wanting to know ‘something’. So the followup question would be, from me to you: What makes you think God did it?

[@ChipmunkRapidsMadMan1869]

Science is the study of the fingerprints of God. Scientism is the belief that a plane full of bricks can build a house by dropping them.

[@timothybell5698]

I like the pandeist/pantheist perspective, especially with the way technology is accelerating. I think Asimov does it the most justice with his short story 'The Last Question', but I like the idea that a lot of 'revelatory knowledge' was the product of some supercomputer sending information back in time through tachyonic particles. The universe as a closed causal loop just really does something for me.

[@rpierwit]

If it is a "closed casual loop" how can it be expanding?

[@venkiteshramachandran8001]

@@rpierwit You seriously think this guy has any clue? He is looking for a reason to believe his religion to be true. It's just plain wishful thinking.

[@Earendel.l]

Rob Bell, Pete Holmes, and Francis Collins (Bill Nye is automatically included) gave the best insights. That was really beautiful. Beautiful, really.

[@paulrichards6894]

Francis collins became a Christian when out for a walk he saw a waterfall frozen in 3 parts ...thought of the trinity.....what a dope

[@rygarisfun8164]

Agreed. Francis Collins opinion that science and religion answer different questions: right on. Bill Nye’s criticisms about religions ridiculous rigid beliefs on aspects of the natural world (ie earth 6000 years old, a global flood that killed all animals except for the ones on the ark that occurred within the last 6000 years, etc): right on.

[@mts12270]

The only place I personally have ever felt the presence of god was in nature.... away from people and their bullshit

[@leebennett1821]

But without People there is no God and not only when you are away from other people they don't have to Put up with your Bullshit

[@smarttechnicalservicesltd7299]

Hit the nail on the head, Nowhere Man.

[@toszatesze3796]

@Peter B. And can you describe me what is the difference of the two.... (I mean feeling God and feeling bio chemical stimulation)? Does your brain function differently than others?

[@jamesspackman9819]

When I met Richard Dawkins, there were a lot of people who treated him like the Messiah. He doesn't get the irony.

[@alihouadef5539]

You said something which has a very profound meaning, I hope we can reflect more on that, as god told us to do so.

[@Phoenix-pb4sm]

Religion is what made religion useless Scientists just showed it

[@michaelnelson3652]

Evidence?

[@aleksimus]

Institutionalised religion made religion useless. Religion is supposed to be a personal experience. Sages and wisemen of the past have been trying to explain certain concepts and realities for centuries that science is only discovering now.

[@Phoenix-pb4sm]

@@aleksimus No. Personal religion is still irrational and harmful.

[@aleksimus]

@@Phoenix-pb4sm I said religion is supposed to be a personal experience if one so chooses. I never mentioned personal religion.

[@tomrhodes1629]

Ignorance is what made Truth useless to the willfully ignorant. And science is not science when it seeks anything other than Truth.

[@whateverrandomnumber]

It's impressive how people see science as an antagonist to religion, when they're two separate non-correlated things. And most speakers on the video say that, but people just don't understand. I'm an atheist and materialist, and I'm ok with the existence of religion. What throws me off is the denial of science by some religious people. And "sciency" people feeling superior to religious people. That's just wrong. I recommend a couple of videos: "Nassim Nicholas Taleb: About Role of Religion", And "The Nature of Reality: A Dialogue Between a Buddhist Scholar and a Theoretical Physicist."

[@asc4096]

I'm comfortable with cafeteria type Christianity 'faith' when it's not pushed upon me by relatives grieving a death for example (that I am also grieving...) but the evil shit in their 'holy' books certainly does bother me. In the grip of bad ideas people, otherwise good, do awful things. Truly awful. Many are doing them because of extremist Islamic sects flourishing within predominantly Islamic countries. And of course in the name of all sorts of made up crap. But are you going to tell me that isn't bothering you? Maybe the 'sciency' crowd aren't (always) more intelligent, but I'd say not wanting to stone your raped little sister to death for 'honour' makes you just a shred less morally corrupt. The existence of a reasonable religious individual is not evidence for religious behaviour itself being generally reasonable or safe.

[@ergonomover]

@@asc4096 Thanks, that was the best comment I've read this evening. I'd like to add that, In the USA, the Southern Baptist Convention (around 14 million members) officially teaches Young Earth, global flood, Adam and Eve existed, all that jazz, and regularly attacks science that contradicts these claims (evolution, genetics, geology, astronomy etc). Close to half of Americans think the Earth might be no older than 10,000 years, according to polls like Gallup and Pew. Religion once antagonized scientists, Galileo was imprisoned and forced to recant his ideas, Giordano Bruno burnt at the stake for suggesting exoplanets (about 4400 now detected). I could go on.

[@setary123]

The only religion that has truly backed science is in the Quran

[@rsv298]

The perspective on science and religion being a false dichotomy was absolutely eye-opening. I came into this video with a negative sentiment about religion being just a form of brainwashing but now I have a newfound respect for it. Yes, religion is definitely abused by malicious actors for their own benefit but at its core, it is very wholesome. Religious communities that share common values and purpose seem like utopias. There is definitely a place for both in our world.

[@mikey7673]

The thing is, that religion does not own these common values. These utopias are rife with many wrongdoings also. Careful!

[@alexanderfretheim5720]

Most actual scientists (Tyson is a museum curator & Dawkins is an overpaid writer of nonfiction dime novels) are, in fact, religious, though not always Christian. Many of our best researchers in America today are Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, many of them from South or East Asia. Some also are Catholic, Mormon or Protestant. In fact, the values, work ethic and respect for people who can help you grow up that religion teaches is part of what made them great scientists, and it is the lack of these things in the United States that is why Hindu & Muslim India is starting to run circles around us in science. The recent success of South Asia, despite its lack of resources, in science and engineering shows us that religion is not science's enemy, it is its supplier.

[@rsv298]

@@alexanderfretheim5720 when you lack spiritual purpose and community then everything else crumbles. As it should, because why do anything if there is it's all meaningless and hopeless.

[@alexanderfretheim5720]

@@rsv298 Exactly! Furthermore, what questions are you even answering if you completely devalue the Final Cause? Bertrand Russel did some good things for Set Theory, but as a philosopher he's HORRIBLY overrated.

[@stefanisilva2493]

@@alexanderfretheim5720 Not believing in the existence of gods could be the greatest reason for one to pursue science. First, there's the absence of the "given" answears about our origins present in religious narratives and second, the idea that we are all alone and unprotected in cold nature - needing to learn as much as possible to help ourselves as there is no "magic" to save us. If I believed in miracles I would never spend my time studying about medication - I would just pray for them and do some form of art instead.

[@47f0]

"Has science made religion useless?" Absolutely not. Religion was useless from jump.

[@alexanderespinoza]

Love it.

[@jonaqpetla_]

Religion is the most successful tool of social engineering our species has ever come up with. I recommend the "Creating God" episode from NPR's "Hidden Brain" podcast. The Gods evolved too, the current successful versions were the ones that facilitated large scale cooperation.

[@illuminated2438]

And yet without the Catholic Church there would be no science. LOL. Ignorant child.

[@DavidLindes]

@@illuminated2438 the path to science would have been different, but it would have come about in some form.

[@TheInevitron]

@@illuminated2438 Belief in magic is a hindrance to science. Religious people who make scientific progress do it in spite of their magical beliefs, not because of them. Magic isn't real. Do yourself a favor and stop thinking it is.

[@GALM1Cipher]

philosophy can with no problem answer these questions. religion gives an answer without checking if it is true.

[@MrTommyb1970]

The original "fake news" perhaps? Maybe, but I'm hoping for better outcomes and understandings.

[@Brugar18]

Technically philosophy raises us questions to answer, not answer questions.

[@reginalquince7513]

@@Brugar18 true

[@barshasitoula9724]

Wow! This was really great and has helped me a lot. Thanks for the video

[@carolnorton2551]

Religions started to answer the basic question we all ask since we were two years old, "Why?"..... And the answers changed as we needed them to change, Science tries to answer the "Why?" question with repeatable results, but it IS more likely to get to the truth.

[@Frank-mm2yp]

Many people need "religion" as consolation for existing for a certain amount of time in a meaningless universe. People who just accept that they exist for a time in a meaningless universe, and just get on with it, generally do not need religion. Some do like the music, or the snacks provided after the services,etc.."Science" does not provide "consolation", per se; many people are OK with that.

[@naotamf1588]

I find meaning in continueing the human endevour to "fully" understand our universe while getting to play with all these neat tools and toys we come up with because of ever so slightly understanding more and more of it.

[@strongfoot2009]

Science is very limited and it can not explain everything and it can not solve every human issue.

[@Frank-mm2yp]

@@strongfoot2009 Neither religion nor science can explain "everything" . There's just too much of it.

[@pauladams1829]

@@strongfoot2009 Religious thinking solve zero problems and provide zero reliable predictions. Scientists provide both.

[@grossryder6316]

"People who just accept that they exist for a time in a meaningless universe" ... is that your understanding and conclusion or are you making an objective /universal claim?.If so, by what scientific method have you arrived at this brilliant result?

[@rosscarlson3701]

Based on reading the comments here, it seems that the vast majority of Big Think viewers are not religious. That fact speaks volumes.

[@PecerSecer]

Not really...people who follow this channel or to whom the algorithm recomends this video mostly have similar views. This fact is just another example of how people who think alike are likely to group together and find more information that would confirm that would support their worldview.

[@lwwells]

“thinking” and religion don’t often jive with eachother. Faith is the stand in to allow mysterious answers to mysterious questions. Faith blocks science.

[@lwwells]

Nick Papayiannakis I find it very interesting that you distill the topic of religion down to only ‘Christ’. Why do you choose that figure?

[@placerdemaio]

because political/power games, religion and corruption look like that are the same, but religion are not corruption, it have a lot of corruption inside of it, big difference.

[@glennabraham2345]

Isn’t this like saying finding religious people on a religious channel speaks volumes, too? I think the vast majority of us were already agnostic/atheist before we found this channel lol.

[@andyf4292]

faith is starting with an answer you like , then forcing the facts to fit

[@Quadr44t]

I like that you feature losts of different opinions on the matter here. Setting em side by side, you can really see common ground with every speaker

[@mveletic]

Love the idea that people can talk about this topic from different perspectives and live me with a smile on my face. How refreshing!

[@paulrichards6894]

it's about how people cope with death.....if you cant you are far more likely to seek religion

[@jimmeriden]

my objection to established "western" religions is that the people (men) who run them think that they have all the answers and that their answers are all the right answers.

[@as-1982]

@@jimmeriden Are those people who believe in established non-western religious think otherwise?

[@CanadianLoneWolf10]

"There have been nearly 3000 Gods so far but only yours actually exists.The others are silly made up nonsense. But not yours. Yours is real" - Ricky Gervais We can't answer if their is some metaphysical force out there, but it sure as hell isn't part of a human created religion

[@chrisallum9044]

In this context the best way to understand "god" in secular terms is "goal". A not especially well defined shared goal that the whole tribe or whatever moves towards. The goal is generally held within story form as that's the best way to communicate meaningfully we have yet found...you might include movies etc today too The "goal" evolved, some died out and aren't pursued any longer, some are in different forms. You and I both probably follow the ideological belief that other humans are intrinsically valuable for example? that evolved through Christianity and others before that, other places with other ideologies do not share it. Anyway, the point is there are many ways we can aim. More than one can be "right". Your goals and mine could conflict, they could align. As they are all of humans they tend to have very similar stories what with humans generally having basically the same biology neurology etc At the same time they seldom line up perfectly. The big difference is these "goals" last longer than you or I ..aka our personal goals. Today religions god is money for example which fails to properly value the long term. I mean shit, we rich modern societies are going extinct because we stopped having kids ffs People think climate change is a big issue lol it's just the beginning haha Time. That is what religion took care of when we were too dumb to do so...and honestly so far as i can see that hasn't changed enough yet. Love Ricky though XD My favorite was the one about science text books vs religious ones. Although I suppose I would say they would be as different as human experience but no more now. The way to think of gods/religions through time is like genes evolving. Kind of randomly popping up but less random in which stick around as that depends on environment etc Good traditions keep the tribe alive, bad ones not so much :P

[@ahmetbaykoc1087]

This comment shows that ricky gervais knows nothing about the history of religious thought and concepts.

[@miketacos9034]

I like these videos with so many different experts sharing different insights. Very eye opening.

[@samjall9216]

What a vid!Simply amazing!

[@dennistucker1153]

To Reza Aslan, I believe that thing you are referring to is "abstraction". When a species reaches a development stage where they have the ability to form abstract thoughts, is the moment when they start considering "what could be". Belief in a creator was one of these abstract thoughts. That thought became popular.

[@grossryder6316]

Ever heard of something called "experience"?

[@FarzinAhammed]

​@@grossryder6316 Delusional

[@STEVEARABIA1]

I wonder how much more scientifically we'd be advanced if we had avoided religion our entire existence.

[@ingebygstad9667]

probably less.... But if we gave up religion when we...technically should? - like a century or two, after the renaissance, then things would be quite interesting and different these days.

[@grossryder6316]

The more scientifically advanced the quicker the destruction.

[@sharon7915]

@A Peppermint Candy Also,don't forget that the universe is about 14 billion years old,while earth is like 5. How can god create the world and then man?!Did god create the earth before universe?Or he created the "world" and then automatically man?It makes no sense.

[@jmaniak1]

By leaps and bounds.

[@topologyrob]

No difference - "avoiding" religion is like avoiding love or music. And we certainly know the idea that religion destroyed ancient learning is a fanatical myth.

[@alxjetson8157]

Faith is for those that have difficulty accepting the realities of life,

[@gen.1268]

*1Cor1:* 20So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. 21Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe. 22It is foolish to the Jews, who ask for signs from heaven. And it is foolish to the Greeks, who seek human wisdom. 23So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense. 24But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles,Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.

[@bryansantanavegas1910]

Whats with these kids (l4me grown up men) that think typing some random quote is the equivalent of sharing solid wisdom?

[@ZPLS18]

I have faith and I realize I'll die just like you one day. I walk the same humany path of you and it doesn't deter me. Most atheists are narcissists who think they have the answers and cant imagine their being a being more intelligent than our great scientists

[@ZPLS18]

Also if you dont have faith that what you're doing is benefitting you in anyway then you just quit life now. You dont know when you'll get robbed or stabbed or shot, but you walk out with the faith in your surroundings that it won't happen. Unfortunately for you, Ignorance does not equal immortality.

[@jimo1150]

hope and faith is waiting for an outcome and that outcome varies every time. Science, gets you to that outcome, repeatedly.

[@jessebob325]

The invisible and the non-existent look very much a like. But when life is tough and enjoyment is not easy to come by... most people feel comfortable believing a lie. 😐

[@donaldboughton8686]

Religion became established when someone realised that being a priest was better then working.

[@TheChodex]

Might sound weird, but I think it's actually true. I mean think about it, having a choice between 1. being a safe, respected, and educated holy man; 2. risking your life every day by fighting others; 3. working (farmer, smith, etc.) Being a priest is most tempting. Personally, if I was born in middle-ages I would probably choose to be a priest.

[@robbyjulian311]

Well, those that first established Christianity sure did have better lives than those working people. NOT. Most of them were decapitated and crucified. Please don't let your personal grudge towards something clouds your reasoning.

[@markhorsburgh76]

@@robbyjulian311 ah, but they went to a better place and are now having the time of their lives in heaven. Unlike the decapitators.

[@robbyjulian311]

@@markhorsburgh76 I don't care, still his point was wrong. Either he knows little about history or his childish grudge towards religion demanded him to write bullshit.

[@bwhit7919]

Robby J is correct. The lives of early Christians were absolutely miserable. Assuming that Christianity became established because people thought it would be more convenient to be a priest is simply inconsistent with historical fact.

[@todd92371]

I'm very leary of "religion." But, I am fascinated by the teachings of "Christ". And have complete respect for other belief systems. I love to see people seeking out deeper meanings in this life that walk hand in hand with science. Man-made institutions can trivialize beautiful messages.

[@alexanderfretheim5720]

I find this cliche very trite and tiresome. Okay, it's true, religion and Christ are not the same thing, but that DOES NOT mean religion is useless, and it certainly doesn't mean its evil. In truth, anyone who has ever willfully sinned after being born again has separated themselves from Christ and needs outside help to make their way back to Him. Further, even those who have not will find Christs instructions in John 6 rather difficult to fulfill, and all believers will find the clarity of mind and soul, and wisdom, that religious repetition can bring to be helpful in their walk with Christ. Religion is not about what you believe, it is about what you do: prayer, meditation, ritual, asceticism, sacrament. It is certainly not a "belief system", a phrase that has to describe the most useless concept in human history.

[@todd92371]

@@alexanderfretheim5720 I don't think religion is useless. I think it's just a word that can encompass many things. But, when people say the word it often doesn't represent my core beliefs. Just like it may not represent other belief systems. It's a generic term that can encompass many religions, belief systems, and core values. And I just focus on the core teachings and values of Christ. I don't need any terms or names to box Him in. I see a lot of mankind's ego boxing the teachings in to accommodate political ideologies, monetary gain, or selfish desire.

[@todd92371]

And the term "religion" has become grey and possesses many meanings for different people. That is not to say that I'm not fascinated with the teachings of "The Buddha". But, I think a lot of this is simply analyzing an umbrella term that covers many things.

[@alexanderfretheim5720]

@@todd92371 It's really not that gray a term. It may not be a technical term, but it's honestly better defined than most concepts in the humanities and nearly all concepts in society, government, art, history and politics. Religion, from the latin Religare ("to bind"), refers to a disciplined practice of spiritual exercises for the purpose of the cultivation of the soul. It includes prayer, meditation, ritual, sacrament and mantra; scripture (including the Bible) is just mantra writ large, though sacrament could also be said to be highly related to ritual, the chief difference being that the supernatural participates in and defines sacrament whereas ritual is purely human. Confucius probably presented the best definition of religion in his Four Books, along with a pretty solid philosophical framework of what it should attempt to achieve, how it should be pursued, and how its effectiveness should be measured. My favorite quote on religion is from Siddhartha (popularly known as the buddha, although he isn't my buddha): "Meditation brings wisdom, lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what pulls you forward, and what holds you back."

[@alexanderfretheim5720]

@@todd92371 Religion is Saint Peter, and Christ chose Saint Peter to "feed his sheep" (John 21) and serve as the cornerstone of His Body on this Earth because that is how men are both best prepared to receive Christ and best able to repent and be made clean once again after they sin. God did not make men to lead uninteresting lives, as Job came to know the journey with God is often mindbending and counterintuitive, and I think you really do need to clear the protestant reactionism out of your understanding of the Christian Life. To quote a favorite Bob Seger song, "this is a protest against protesters."

[@sbccmichaelkelly]

No, we just need to replace that top layer of imagined reality with morality studies.

[@chemquests]

Where the religious get in trouble is when they claim religion allows them to know something. It might be useful to some people or collections of people to hold a shared belief but is not a epistemologically sound source of knowing anything. The wise are aware of the boundaries to their knowledge.

[@vkrgfan]

The sad part is when children subjected to religion, because then they aren’t motivated to study and be involved in STEM subjects. Cause science is harder to understand than religion.

[@topologyrob]

Nonsense - there are ways of knowing that are subjective, and don't work empirically (eg, the way you know you enjoy a piece of music, or love your partner - indeed anything phenomenological). You just need to broaden your mind and join the wise.

[@chemquests]

@@topologyrob a god claim is a claim on the ontological status of a proposed objective being. Your subjective internal state is irrelevant to this claim. A debate on phenomenology is a separate topic, but just to make my stance on that topic clear, I am familiar with this paradigm and reject it outright. The sense of the word “know” you’re using here is doing a lot of work, and I would argue is a belief not knowledge precisely because it’s unverifiable. How can you be sure your self report is accurate? You feel something but what do you attribute it to. People frequently mischaracterize their feelings. Is it love or poorly digested pizza? Is my light headed feeling anxiety, diabetes, or a transient neurochemical event? Generally you don’t know but you believe your attributions. If you want to link it to god claims by saying something like you feel his presence then your attribution problems just got worse. How can you possibly link your subjective experience to a being that may not exist. The fact that you can’t verify the source of your spiritual feeling is correlated with a god (even in principle) is the strongest evidence that some are believing a story they made up.

[@topologyrob]

@@chemquests You're simply mistaken - there's nothing remotely objective about God - that's the whole point. God is pure subject. No claims can be made, only known directly.

[@chemquests]

@@topologyrob nothing “purely” subjective exists, as all mental activity is the activity of neurons and other brain cells. Yes, I’m a material empiricist so we will fundamentally disagree on philosophical grounds. That’s ok; we’ll just agree to disagree. I do however maintain from an epistemological perspective you can’t “know” that to be true, you’re simply asserting it. I can accept that you’re defining god as whatever it is you subjectively experience in those particular moments. In that case I can show you that it’s high neuronal activity in the parietal lobe of your brain.

[@somerandom3247]

honestly dont understand how people still hold onto these religions when reality directly contradicts the vast majority of them. People just choose to be ignorant of reality I guess

[@LLyrification]

Pete Holms was on the mark. That should asnwer your confusion

[@CrazyOrdinal]

This can be described as a way of life and society where the idea of hope and helplessness are elevated to relief by having faith in an absolute entity. Its just one of those things people do to get by in life. To achieve peaceful mind and else

[@somerandom3247]

@@LLyrification the problem with his explanation is that people believe that the Jesus story is true. No one believes batman is true. We don't need to believe clearly fictional stories to be better people.

[@aditya_saha]

maybe because it is difficult to discard an ideology which you have accustomed right from your birth

[@robbyjulian311]

It gives people comfort and connection to others, a community. How is this hard to understand?

[@vascoamaralgrilo]

Thanks!

[@emilcioran8873]

2:02 Is that the voice behind the channel The school of life????

[@HassanAlhassan-gb5xg]

Yeah, it's him. Co-founded the channel in 2008

[@wmarclocher]

It has for me. It has taught me to question all the indoctrination and authorities, traditions and anecdotal beliefs that were pushed on me. It has taught me not make a claim that cannot be backed up by evidence and cross examination It has taught me to to always be ready to listen and throw out a long held comfortable belief when new evidence becomes available and there is no good reason to hold on to the old belief It has taught me that "faith" is a belief when there is no evidence and usually is no more than wishful thinking and therefore no good reason for believing in something.

[@camerontaylor7471]

The problem with intellectual experts aka the science community is that it is consciously or unconsciously enforcing the same oppressive behavior that religious figures of authority have been doing to its followers, and is the real reason why religion is such a harmful culture to adapt within society... and that is the claim of being absolutely, without a doubt correct and accurate in whatever theory the scientific community is trying to claim as being a fact... you cannot dispute them, you cannot question them or else you are ostracized... I’m not talking about the global warming deniers... I’m talking when they release their studies and their data and their findings with their percentages, charts, tables, graphs, statistics, etc etc... they say ‘numbers don’t lie’ ... but I can give you a million examples of how and when numbers and data only offer a fraction of the reality, and do not represent the whole picture... and this is dangerous, and actually causes a lot of problems within business, industry, society, economy... it’s like how they say the economy is doing so amazing and how USA has more millionaires in the world then ever before, etc etc all while everyone I know and see around me is barely able to pay their bills, and the debt of the entire USA keeps on growing and growing and growing etc etc... or when companies do marketing within their business, and ‘run the numbers’ and the reports tell them to order more of one type of product because it sold out, all while reducing the quantity of another item, when in reality the only reason it sold out was because one person bought all the stock, all the whole the other product has had more demand and more popular amongst customers, but only the person who has been present and helping cud’s timers directly would know that, but they are not the ones ordering the product so the company fulfills it’s inventory, and comes upon customer service issues because the more popular item has sold out now because they didn’t order enough and they have way too many of the other item and no one wants it, this causes environmental waste, overstock, loss of profits, negative reviews for the company, loss of repeat customer business, etc etc, but because corporations are taught to trust numbers and reports 100% the same situation repeats over and over and over in a cycle... all because we believe the lie of ‘numbers don’t lie’ ... so this is one example of how experts, and systems, and institutions fail at actually engaging with reality... even scientists!

[@naotamf1588]

@@camerontaylor7471 you are overwhelmed it seems. it is actually quite simple: when someone invests years of their career and expertise (generaly in conjunction with many similar educated people) they tend to ignore (disregard) arguments that are not spoken in the language of experts. your task is (if it becomes so significant to you to persue these subjects) to involve yourself in the very material of the subject until you can ask them a question they would consider coherent and worthy to explain to you and theier findings. If you follow educational content like "real engineering" his video from today actually contains an anecdote of him finding slight incoherences in a study about space elevators which he points out. there is no doctrin, only experts closing in on reality while pointig out even better aproximations. If you want to be taken serious by them than get in there at least half as deep as they did.

[@strongfoot2009]

Just asking questions without solving issues is futile. Humans need solutions. Philosophy keeps you questioning things but at the end, you decide.

[@topologyrob]

That's credulity, not faith. Faith is trust.

[@alexanderfretheim5720]

And as a religious person, my response is: "EXCELLENT!" Although I am not a Buddhist, this quote from Siddhartha is the best statement about the real purpose of religion I've ever heard: "Meditation brings wisdom, lack of meditation leaves ignorance. Know well what pulls you forward and what holds you back." Religion, from Religare (Latin: to bind), is always and everywhere about practice and discipline, what you do rather than what you "believe". Wherever it takes you is where it should take you, and as for personal fortune or misfortune, that all belongs to God and He does with it what pleases Him.

[@sebastianb.1926]

Sanity, that's why. Not knowing drives most of us mad.

[@jakel8627]

Religion: I HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS Science: i am the captain now

[@ZPLS18]

Please tell me the answers that science have. I dont want theories, I want answers. Science didnt begin when tiktok began

[@manuelpopp1687]

@@ZPLS18 The universe doesn't owe you answers. You've got to accept that. I'd prefer not having an answer over being totally convinced of something that is almost certainly a lie. What do I have in my pocket? Scientists can tell you what people usually have in their pockets and that the best guess would be that my pockets are empty right now. But they will tell you that the question is basically not answerable and a good guess is the best they can do. Some psychopath might tell you that a satellite orbits the Earth with a rocket that is programmed to search and kill you and in my pocket is the remote control that will activate that rocket. And I will activate it in case you take the first step of a stair with your left foot. So what you're gonna do? The psychopath gave you an answer while scientists told you they don't know. Will you watch out how you start walking up stairs for the rest of your life? Just because someone claims to have an answer, that doesn't mean he actually has. Or that the answer he can offer is the correct one.

[@topologyrob]

Wow, you're doing religion weirdly Jake.

[@psyekl]

I have seen it phrased differently which I think is more accurate: Religion: I have answers that cannot be questioned. Science: I have questions that need answers.

[@topologyrob]

@@psyekl So far from accurate

[@dcterr1]

Excellent video! I agree with most of what everyone says in it - in particular, the fact that science and spirituality aren't really enemies but just different ways of thinking about our world and our existence and ultimately arriving at the truth.

[@jimmad3923]

Before I watched the video I suspected there would've been a big bias in the selection of interviewees. Very glad to see a variety of viewpoints - all of which would have given the question a lot of thought. Reason speaks for itself, so thanks for giving a balanced video with discussion from multiple angles and insights.

[@yoursubconscious]

Living in Thailand for over a decade, you truly understand religion is just another way to make income in exchange for one's belief.

[@camerontaylor7471]

It’s capitalizing on intellectual property...

[@maurice]

But you can have personal belief, be religious, without giving anyone any money or following any monk's lead.

[@singularity-6339]

If you have been living in Thailand for over a decade and never learned how to meditate, you wasted your time there.

[@nguyenhoanglong420]

I'm from South East Asia and I don't believe in God !!! I rather go to work or do Scientific things more than Believe !!!

[@yoursubconscious]

@@singularity-6339 - if you understand meditation, then you should know* you are always meditating.

[@playmesalsa]

4:39. To sum up what Pete Holmes said: The value of belief (stories) is not in its veracity but in what it is capable of creating... positive mental states. And eventually, your inner transformation.

[@BugzNBeanz]

I spent a good portion of my young adult life asking those hard philosophical questions of why are we here, is there a god, who is god? It led me down a rabbit hole of conspiracies and placing judgment on other people and their ways of life. Ultimately I’ve discovered it doesn’t matter why we are here we simple are…so make the most of it. It doesn’t matter if there’s a god because there is a YOU! Who cares who god is if you don’t even know who you are yourself. Religious people can greatly benefit from taking a step back from the big questions and finding peace in the small answers. I did.

[@elinope4745]

I find morality in Nash equibrium of group survival, and in empathy created by mirror neurons. That is the fundamental foundations of morality in my opinion.

[@p.bamygdala2139]

Nice!

[@TiMmMAAaaa]

Makes since to have strength in numbers ... pretty sure morality came from having tribes and raiders... security through morality... god came from immortalizing our hero’s and the ideas of the perfect... it all goes back to socrates city in the sky... the forms and stuffs... the perfect table doesn’t exist but you have one in mind... that’s god, the idea of the perfection of human nature...

[@TiMmMAAaaa]

The reflection of human perfection in idea form...

[@princevegeta5907]

If this god is all knowing. He must have known that Eve would eat the fruit from tree of knowledge. Still he didn't do anything and sinned the whole mankind. See, how illogical this story is.

[@diegomeringer3953]

i feel like they should have picked a more malicious animal. Like a feral dog or something

[@Samuraislash600]

That's called the problem of evil. If god is good then why allow evil in the world? If he is all knowing, then he himself is a sadist and evil because he allowed the world to plunge into evil and didn't stop it. But if he didn't know the evil would come, he isn't as powerful as people say, and is incompetent. The problem of evil led me to atheism.

[@shankz8854]

@@Samuraislash600 the problem of evil is only part of it. It’s also illogical and immoral to punish people for something they did because God created them thus. So many problems arise trying to retrofit an omniscient, omnipotent benevolent creator to an Iron Age thunder god come celestial dictator who originally acted and reacted in real time.

[@morsecode9223]

He gave humans free will ?

[@Samuraislash600]

@@shankz8854 That too. The problem of evil was the foundation for me, the other fallacies were just the nail in the coffin.

[@Servantofthegenerous]

Religion is a map and a guide, not the territory.

[@ToddAMeyers]

Even a smart person like Collins get’s the fine tuning argument absolutely backwards and that is his field. Life is fine tuned to the universal constants. Never the other way around.

[@martin_bbg]

Yes, this was quite shocking to hear!

[@elsiegel84]

If religion would advance I might find it worthwhile, but it is fixed in place while knowledge advances. It thus got left behind as one of childhood's toys.

[@matthewsmith3078]

Check out some Eckhart Tolle or Ram Dass. Or listen to Pete Holmes podcasts. Or maybe Duncan Trussell.

[@1p6t1gms]

I think that accepting any false information as truth that becomes embedded into thought processes and is not worked out properly would have an effect on how the overall consciousness process works and this would seem self-evident. But more so, if there are damaging untruths from all kinds of teachings, whatever the source and individually unrealized or even excessive amounts of drugs, alcohol to help interfere with the processes… It really should be given great amounts of personal thought so as to protect these negative effects that can injure the person's well-being on a wide spectrum of their feelings and then disrupting the intellect, rationality … in the process, in countless ways and so on. imo An impressive lineup of speakers today, as recently uploaded as well too … I do not ever fatigue from this subject, ne'er.

[@fp-ko7vg]

And so what is truth?

[@jamesmay4789]

You nailed it bro. Excepting false information. changes ability of manifesting reality.

[@NateSF]

We don't need religion but we do need to replace it with some kind of all encompassing social bonding mechanism that both allows for a wide variety of spiritual ideas and ways of thinking while also insisting on critical and scientific thinking.

[@dcterr1]

I like what Bill Nye says about how our beliefs need to be compatible with what is known about science, such as the fact that the Earth is approximately 4.56 billion years old and that evolution by natural selection is the truth. I also think that when you get to the heart of what religion or spirituality are trying to teach us, you'll find that it's perfectly compatible with everything we know through science.

[@Daviticus042]

Dang, it's like some of these folks didn't even watch the video.

[@omatbaydaui722]

Looks like most of people following this channel are atheists with "extreme" views. The audience doesn't match the message the video is trying to convey

[@Allanfallan]

A lot of little thinks watch Big Think. The video sends the right message.

[@benwincelberg9684]

omat baydaui I wonder why that is 🤔

[@canwelook]

Some critically analyse (scientific method) Others blindly swallow (religious method)

[@jaeger6846]

Yeah, I wondered why people complain about Aslan, never heard of him. Then it immediately made sense by the end of the videos ~.~” Most other speakers were okay though.

[@brinistaco1970]

Great video conversation. The guy at 12:46 nailed it for me. That's where it's at for me. Tired of extremists on every issue screaming and yelling just to get attention, fame, money and all of us moderates seem to never have a cohesive voice. I do not think it is because we do not care. I just don't care to convince the other person. It is exhausting, I work for a living. I let people believe what they want. I wish other people would but like they say, if you are not at the table then you might be what is for dinner. When do the balanced , sane people get to talk? I loved this video because everyone in it seemed balanced and sane about a very controversial topic.

[@ThatReplyGuy]

Penn and Pete here are great examples of why more and more people are listening to our entertainers and laughing at our politicians.

[@jidmoore10]

This was a dope video, alot of perspectives covered

[@rikcoach1]

Which meaning of “dope” are you alluding to?

[@patbrennan6572]

You only have to look at Pat Robertson for a minute to realize that the earth is well over 6 thousand years old.

[@jsnel9185]

Leaving religion has improved my life greatly. Minus the relatives who think I am under attack by maligned spiritual forces. Meditation and yoga, mindfullness and taking responsibility has done more to improve my internal psychological world than years of waiting for miracles to tumble from the sky. We are the miracles, and we dont need signs, to paraphrase a song.

[@daielesign]

the minus is so accurate lmaoo

[@benthomson6665]

Science and religion can go hand and hand, however ppl in modern day has separated those two things so now they are separate

[@Mercernary42]

so great to hear how the science/religion debate has come so far in the last 20 years.... I'm so proud of us Humans subtlety, nuance......harmony

[@bikeworkoutchallange8572]

6:30 > Both Science and Religion are searching for truth ? I feel that Science is searching for the truth where evidence is leading it, and Religion is searching for evidence to lead to the truth they already consider to be.

[@reginalquince7513]

Makes sense tbh

[@dorianphilotheates3769]

Fear+Hope=Religion

[@epicdreamkid]

To me the logical explanation for why religion exists is because of the intensity of ones intelligence, which leads them to the act of questioning reality, and when they do not have a strong or reasonable basis for their questions to be answers (or if the basis of their questions lead them to fear or any form of existential dread), they quickly befall to fictive ideas, as that is the only basis where they can find closure to the fear that comes with the questions they ask when pondering their own existence. Animals with lesser intelligence do not bother to form religious beliefs (that we know of), because their ways of thinking is so simplified to instinct and patterns that they never reach the state of questioning their own existence. (There are patterns observed within fauna that could indicate specific ways of intelligent thinking, but most lesser-intelligent animals will have their day-to-day life dominated by simplified instincts and patterns.) I think it also stands as a logical basis to explain why there are different religions across the globe, so many different cultural societies formed on great geological distances that the acts of pondering reality lead to their own respective forms of fictive explanations. Along with those fictive explanations they also formed their own norms and ethics. an example of this are the 10 commandments and 7 sins. In summary, when life gets smart enough to ponder reality, fear is imminent and will eventually dominate over their sense of logic, and this will pass on for generations. Although Religion has been a cornerstone for intelligent life to form a sense of morality and ethics, It's best we keep in mind that perhaps intelligent life will only persevere further if we stop letting religion blind us from objective ways of pursuing the answering of reality and our own existence. I'd like to end this comment with a quote. "If we only sought out the future with the bible, we would have never set foot on the moon."

[@xensonar9652]

Reza Aslan is a hack. It's unfortunate that I keep being reminded that he exists.

[@sciencefirst7032]

Who cares? They had a comedian! I thought it was cool. I think that's part of the problem today...finding things wrong with a message instead of listening to it and giving a real comment. Why not tell us what you thought of the video?

[@stephenmuth7081]

@@sciencefirst7032 I care, because Reza is indeed a hack. So do others, who can easily recognize hacks, whether they are faux scientists or faux theologians. Apparently you lack such discrimination. Sorry abut that.

[@wmarclocher]

"I have more important questions to answer on my plate." - Neil deGrasse Tyson (on why he declined to participate)

[@Frank-mm2yp]

Neil always gets a bit "edgy"whenever the topics of religion, the supernatural or spirituality are brought into the conversation. He usually parries with condescension, a few quick cheap shots, a smirk, and a regal dismissal as if to say: "how dare you"! If the atmosphere gets too tense he tends to shut up and waits for the commercial break. Brilliant guy-just not a "fan".

[@grossryder6316]

Basic philosophical competence is required, but the scientistics have none of it so some like Tyson wisely avoid them, rather than make a fool of themselves. However, at times he too like a true scientistic goes blah blah about "no evidence"

[@canwelook]

@@grossryder6316 1. Believing without sufficient evidence = Christian faith (see Hebrews 11:1) 2. Believing without sufficient evidence = gullibility Discuss

[@grossryder6316]

​@@canwelook 1. I am not a member of the Christian faith so you are shooting in the dark here. However I will indulge you in this case. You seem to know more about the Bible than I do, and I don't have a copy of it so had to check it on the internet. . You have referred to Hebrews 11.1 "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Firstly this proposition is sourced in religious literature, and is not a scientific proposition that can be tested for its accuracy. So the meaning of the terms - particularly "evidence" is very different in a scientific inquiry from than that of a religious quest. Hopefully, you will understand the correct domain of inquiry here, if not, then any discussion is futile. The basic Philosophy that Socrates taught was that to have a meaningful dialog or dialectic, the key terms and the context in which they are applied must be firstly defined in order to have a fruitful dialog or else it ends up nowhere - at least for one party in the dialectic. Here's my take about this proposition: Personally I find it a redundant proposition, because the terms are not properly qualified, the main flaw being that faith and evidence are almost made synonymous, therefore logically its a tautology, so I don't have any particular use for it. However, since my interest is also (among many other interests) in the Philosophy of religion, there is some value in the proposition insofar as the relation between "faith" (a tricky word to use, and much abused) and "things not seen" (i.e. materially not evident through sensory observation) is referred to. It requires an artistic intuition to comprehend this phrase. Like: "Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible to others". Johnathan Swift. In religion and philosophy, as in art, not only vision of "things not seen", but experience, feelings, intuitions, insights and rarely - reason also are modes by which knowledge of non-material/non-physical/metaphysical realms is accessible. 2. I've lost count as to how many times I have heard these scientistic mantras/cliches posited as if these are pearls of wisdom. While you may revel in these reductionist equations, such indulgences only enhance your gullibility towards becoming a fanatic follower of the religion of Scientism/Material Fundamentalism. You won't learn anything this way.

[@canwelook]

@@grossryder6316 I'm sorry my challenge falls outside your expertise given your self professed ignorance of Christianity. However, I agree with your assessment that the terms in the bible are not properly qualified. This is endemic throughout the text, and is in itself evidence that the writing is not, directly or indirectly, the word of some omniscient god concerned with believers agreeing on some clear interpretation. This poor written expression leads to further confusion, as evidenced by you relating this passage to Johnathan Swift's. Swift refers to things not seen by others. In contrast, this bible passage, as theologians agree, refers to things not seen by the person partaking in faith. Your assumption that I would restrict 'seeing' to the visual, or even the sensory field is erroneous. The assumption, based on extremely scant information, that a person seeking sufficient evidence to support claims must necessarily be some "fanatical follower of the religion of Scientism/Material Fundamentalism" suggests a propensity to jump to unfounded conclusions and wildly potted thinking. Is this reactivity an outcome of your study of philosophy or a view you brought to the study?

[@user-pl7oo6dc3j]

One of the basic human needs is certainty which has been fulfilled by religions (beside their many side effects), and was more successful when there was hardly any alternative. No wonder now that science can give us more answers and certainty, the number of non-believers is getting larger ( just heard from a Few muslim scholar that around 24% of young people leave them every year).

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

I am from Egypt and I am 21...... That isn't correct. And religion is about giving you meaning in life and purpose and giving you morals. It isn't about explaining how the martial world works

[@r1cklain]

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl the purpose more often then none doesn't resonate with many, it may with you. However it doesn't necessarily make your religion true.

[@kevcoolkev25]

The guy that said “religion and science aren’t opposites” really shouldn’t be here

[@mcplesk8765]

Its just his opinion, maybe he didint put together that one is a stagnant belief that discourages doubt and sceptisism while the other is doubt and sceptisism

[@kevcoolkev25]

@@mcplesk8765 yes... which are opposites

[@mcplesk8765]

@@kevcoolkev25 yes

[@kevcoolkev25]

@@mcplesk8765 so his opinion is still completely wrong😂

[@Cookiebear_dhx]

Can you say elaborate why he shouldn't?

[@Rayji10]

The problem isn't if someone has some kind of religion or belief, but whether someone has dangerous behaviors based in a system of beliefs.

[@jaymz1999]

Ray Gordiano IE religions and belief.

[@Hombolicious]

I enjoyed this big think. Found it interesting. I think people made good points. I especially vibe with the idea that that sense of wanting to know the truth and of imbuing our experiences with spirits or gods is a natural inbuilt tendency and religions are simply a modern manifestation of that impulse.

[@kirstencorby8465]

And if we know we have this impulse, we can turn it to more constructive uses than fanaticism and violence.

[@christopherbettridge5983]

Also,to what I just said about the individual person who compared Jesus's story to Batman's (and I'm genuinely not trying to blow that out proportion)~I loved what he said about "to flow,to dance with"☮️❤️

[@ChrisF_1982]

It may come as a shock to many, but Alistier Crowley's "Do as thou wilt, shall be the whole the law", actually means that each person is individually responsible for developing their own code of ethics. Quite removed from what most interpret the phrase as. This does relate to what he is saying at 3:48, although while Thelema is a religion, it is mirrored by the scientist. I do admit the scientist is much less cryptic than Crowley, but from what I've read, you must understand Kabala to understand Crowley.

[@matthewmaguire8852]

Religion starts with experience...the fact that psychoactive plants and substances have been around forever might have played into the mystery.🙏😎

[@topologyrob]

Or that they break one out of the default story the brain makes up about itself.

[@voules.spillay5328]

Faith as it is means just believe without questioning... go ahead if you want to do it but don’t blame science for questioning it

[@topologyrob]

That's not faith. Faith is trust. You're talking about credulity.

[@magicbaboon6333]

Faith and belief occurs when one doesn’t know but rather than accepting that they look towards the fantasies made and believed by the generations before them.

[@topologyrob]

@@magicbaboon6333 That's not faith - faith is trust.

[@paulrichards6894]

@@topologyrob trust in things that science has proved wrong....like the age of the earth creation Noahs flood adam and eve

[@topologyrob]

@@paulrichards6894 Um, no - trust in a relationship.

[@francisdpcolangello7310]

*Religion has been put on me, but i never felt it,it never meant a thing to me ,only when religion shows its humanitarian side to help people ,is when i can feel more what religion is for.*

[@npcpa]

1:23 in my opinion.. our weakness towards the powers of nature and the fear of death (=after death transition to non-existence).

[@ApPersonaNonGrata]

Really, the only problem I had with some of the parts of this video that may be ... important to take objection to would be the few parts where well-intentioned people were making religious faith sound healthy and reasonable. -- Because they chose to word their approval in such a way where it included the Abrahamic faiths, ... that made it important to object. -- There's a reason why people such as pagans and native American spiritualists get hardly any grief from rational skeptics ... while Abrahamics get a ton of grief. -- It's not because "The World" is out to "persecute" Christians, or Jews, or Islamics. -- It's because most non-Abrahamics live by "no harm = no foul". -- Abrahamics get plenty of grief because they *cause* plenty of grief. -- Why do you think the suicide rates are so high for LGBT youth? -- Why are there still ongoing struggles for CIVIL RIGHTS in America? -- For non-whites? For women? For LGBT? -- Why is there a strong enough anti-SCIENCE push in America that it's actually a persistent and growing threat to the global environment? -- Why are atheists in many countries (including America) so distrusted, hated, and even (actually) persecuted? -- Why do women who CHOOSE not to get heterosexually and monogamously married and start popping out babies ... have to constantly defend that choice to friends, family, and society? -- Why are suspected gays being tied up tossed off of rooftops as executions in some countries? -- Why are little KIDS being brutally butchered in parts of Africa as suspected witches? -- Which religious demographic did Trump promise to mutually power-trade with if he got elected? And wasn't that the SAME damn religious demographic that Hitler made the SAME damn deal with? -- In fact, what led up to the Holocaust? -- According to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, ""Our realization (is) that the pervasive antisemitism and anti-Judaism in Christian circles helped foster the attitudes that culminated in the Holocaust....". -- And the holocaust of the Indian nations? -- And the American Civil War? -- As I recall, Hitchens had a very long list of violent Christian atrocities that he could recite on cue, every time some Christian apologist tried to rewrite history in their favor; including modern day examples he had witnessed firsthand. -- And has it even OCCURRED to religion's enablers that the very core ideals of the Abrahamic religions (even the less violent versions of those religions) are specifically and deeply abusive, and antithetical to healthy human psychology and social systems? --- If some few of those speakers want to gloss over religion as-if it were fairly grouped with philosophy (another claim that Hitches specifically and utterly discredited), ... or as some "pursuit of truths beyond the purview of science" when TRUTH isn't even on the LIST of things that religious faith is about, .. or as a call to human healing and harmony when its real-world effects are actually *exactly the opposite* of that, ... Someone who knows better should probably speak up.

[@Mayur_]

Thank you for saying this. I appreciate it. Felt the same but would not have been able to convey it this well

[@danbev8542]

The problem is the religions who believe they are right and everybody else is wrong. Logically, It’s pretty amazing to believe that when you look at the thousands of religions who came before, during and after. I believe Christopher Hitchens point this out with respect to Christianity/Judaism. Why would God allow the thousands of belief systems for thousands of years, then finally show himself only to an obscure desert dwelling group?

[@DarnizzleMan]

I'll never stop Believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster it is real folks wake up!!

[@stefangherman8408]

And you as pastafarian the spaghetti monster is edible?

[@bluebagel8084]

He boiled for our sins. R'amen.

[@stefangherman8408]

@Sparky Runner Ha ha!!!

[@DarnizzleMan]

@@stefangherman8408 highly edible especially with parmesan

[@snaggledog0079]

His noodley appendages bless my tummy.

[@robd2259]

Wonderful vid

[@rjung_ch]

Great people speaking here, well done.

[@briannyob7799]

If you were on an airplane in a terrible storm and the pilot said, " I'm going to release the controls and let God land plane", would be relieved or more scared?

[@md.zahidulislam9067]

I will say let the science save us from falling the plane. How?

[@briannyob7799]

@@md.zahidulislam9067 science wouldn't the skill of the pilot would.

[@briannyob7799]

@@md.zahidulislam9067 science was used to design the airplane. Why doesn't god stop planes from crashing? Too busy?

[@md.zahidulislam9067]

@@briannyob7799 perhaps Scientific skills are useless to change those humans luck who are going face the crash. And why should God help them? Death is not brutal at all. Its all about Ethics and Emotion. Stop complaining about this.

[@MrLanceHeartnet]

Yes, Ai God will save us

[@elroyfudbucker6806]

I like how at 4:40, Pete Holmes compares Batman to Jesus, as a symbol of suffering, trying to do good & change the world; "men walking around with the Batman symbol on their tee-shirts". The same as christians with the cross on a chain around the neck? Also, at 9:44, Bill Nye says the somewhere in the bible, pi is mentioned to be 22/7, which as he says is pretty close. I know that in 1Kings 7:23-26 & 2 Chronicles 4:2-5, pi is exactly 3. Just another of many biblical contradictions. We are all atheists, including those who follow a particular faith, because they don't believe in the other person's god. True atheists just take it one step further & refuse to believe in any gods.

[@TheSwiftMagician]

TRUE science and TRUE religion are not in conflict. They are in complete harmony. Conflict only arises from an incomplete knowledge of either science, or religion, or both.

[@TheAccursedHunter01]

Has science made religion useless? Well, considering we can even pose this question without being publicly executed means we're making some progress.

[@joejoey7272]

I’d say spirituality and community are probably the most important parts of a religion. You can certainly meditate daily , volunteer ... etc but it’s on you as an individual to peruse those vital human needs . You don’t have your whole community pulling you do do those things lol

[@mcplesk8765]

You have the whole community claiming god wants you to do so

[@johnphantom]

You can say that science and religion share many things, but there is a core difference between science and religion in that one deals in fact and the other deals in fantasy. I reject all religions as simply mostly trying to impart their "morals" on other to make money and have power.

[@dadikkedude]

Do we need the facade of power structures?

[@NathanAllebach]

HA it’s the school of life guy. such a recognizable voice

[@nevadastreak]

Oooh it rly is. Immediate heart emojis float out of me, like a Sim

[@vaibhavsati538]

We are not born with it, it's not in our "DNA" lmao

[@BeachsideHank]

*Sapient Wisdom* Religion’s genius lies in selling beliefs that are imperfect, and telling believers "science is always changing, you just can’t trust that stuff", and getting away with it.

[@777mxr]

The extremest occupy the stage partly because they're the most passionate. If I could just get passionate about leading people to a more reasonable view of spirituality then maybe I could help people.