Has The Switch To kWh Billing Made DC Fast Charging More Expensive?

[@LeftCoastEV]

What are your thoughts on the switch from a time based to a usage based charging model? Do you think the current rates are expensive? Let me know your thoughts down below.

[@rozonoemi9374]

In Canada, Tesla Superchargers are @ 0.67$ a KW, quite expensive compared to .074$ @ KW for off peak tarif in Ontario.

[@sedawk]

Very good video. I think overall per kWh based billing is better; however, it does mean I pay more for charging sometimes. I charged my F-150 at a Shell station a few months ago (time-based) and I paid about half what it costs at a Tesla station (kWh based). So I was lucky there, but with the issues you had mentioned - plus slower stations - like BC hydro - I think the kWh billing is more reasonable. It is just the kHw pricing can be quite different. For the non-member Tesla chargers in Hope BC they are $0.62 per kWh while in Red Deer AB they are $0.90 per kWh. (The opposite of gas prices!)

[@LeftCoastEV]

Tesla chargers for non Tesla vehicles are always more expensive. The Magic Dock station in Calgary is also $0.90 per kWh. It was a bit cheaper when it first opened. But some people have told me that they will gladly play more for Tesla reliability. For me, I would think they should lower the pricing somewhat it’s way too expensive now. Plus the membership they offer is pricy as well. Glad you liked the video! How is charging on Tesla chargers for a Ford owner now? Are you experiencing any issues?

[@sedawk]

​@@LeftCoastEV The Tesla chargers have been amazing. Tesla has removed most of the bollards at the sites so I am able to pull straight in and charge at most stations. I have plug and charge activated on my Ford - so I just connect my adapter, plug in the truck and I am charging in 20 seconds. Flawlessly. Every time. I completed a trip a few weeks ago from the Sunshine Coast to North Battleford SK. I used Superchargers for just about every stop and it completely took away any possible stress from taking such a long trip in a very inefficient EV. Also, Alberta (especially Edmonton) is a bit of a charging wasteland, so the Superchargers made a difficult trip super easy. I only charged at three non-Tesla sites the whole trip: Hotel in Kamloops (L2), Chevy dealer on Whyte Ave (a great spot), and Electrify Canada in Calgary. The only grief I had was, of course, Electrify Canada. The first station didn't activate, the second one decided to stop working half way through the charge, so I had to move to the 3rd station to finish the charge. Whereas every Tesla stop worked perfectly - a few times I was at 80% before I was ready to hit the road! Also, the Tesla locations are generally much better than Electrify Canada. The location of Electrify Canada in Golden is just nuts - there is nothing there! Tesla seems to plan their locations very well.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Amazing, thanks for the info! I’m trying to convince my wife that getting a Lightning is a good idea so I will show this comment to her. We are getting a little tired of the limited fast charging options outside of what Tesla offers so getting a Ford right now makes sense for us. We also enjoy winter activities and driving to Jasper for example we are stuck using 50 kW Flo chargers, but there are, of course, Superchargers right next to Flo that would get us on the road quicker. Thanks for the feedback!

[@sedawk]

​@@LeftCoastEV That is great - I really can't say enough good things about my Lightning. I have owned vehicles for over 30 years and this is by far my favourite one. There are very few downsides to the Ford F-150. Software is lagging behind Tesla and others. Also, it is big! Takes a little getting use too - especially if you are new to trucks. However, it is an amazing vehicle - especially for a family. So much room and incredibly comfortable on a road trip. Someone described it as "taking your living room on a road trip" - that is an apt description. For the rear passengers it feels almost like being in the back of the limo - just so much room. Of course, I mentioned the access to Tesla, but the charging is good. It doesn't have super fast speeds like others, but the charging curve is excellent. No matter your SOC when you plug in you get your first 10 minutes of charging at 150 to 170 kWh. Then it drops to around 110 until you hit 80%. So for efficient EV travel there is no math or wait calculation - just charge to 80% and go! Of course, going to Jasper is perfect. Top up in Edson (my session was I pulled in from Edmonton at 33% and charged to 82% while getting breakfast at A&W - added 67 kWh in exactly 30 min). I was able to skip Jasper and pulled into Valemount at 20% SOC. Charged to 77% (took 34 min and added 78 kWh).

[@LeftCoastEV]

Thanks again for the all the useful information. I did take a quick test drive in a Lightning and love it. Now I just need to convince my wife that a truck would work for our family!

[@Kevin-dp1vy]

The price you are paying for charging is so much cheaper than here in the UK. Our local public chargers are priced per kWh that you take and that costs £0.79 per kWh, about C$1.38.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Jeez that is indeed expensive! Didn’t realize the UK was that expensive, but is it still cheaper than gas?

[@Kevin-dp1vy]

@@LeftCoastEV Depends what you drive. I have a 2 litre petrol wagon that costs me roughly 16 Pence per mile in petrol. A similar size EV getting 3 miles per kw would be 26 Pence per mile using a public charger.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Huge difference. Thanks for sharing these numbers. In Canada fuel is expensive so it makes sense to drive electric.

[@Kevin-dp1vy]

@@LeftCoastEV petrol in the UK is around £1.45 per litre, C$2.54. Of that around 80 pence goes to the government in tax. Sooner or later the government will have to find a way to get all that tax from EV drivers.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Our gas prices depend on province and city and it varies from anywhere from $1.30 to almost $2.00 in parts of British Columbia. That’s per litre for regular fuel. For us taxes make up most of the price as well. Alberta, the province where I live, recently implemented an EV tax of $200 that will start in 2025, paid annually during registration. I think this is the first step in taxing EV drivers and I see it increase in the coming years.

[@ChandlerHyatt]

Fair, balanced review. Inconsistencies in power output should have been enough to question the time-based model from the start. As others have commented and as you shared, it seems like a warranted and worthwhile investment on the consumer's part to help these providers increase their capacity to provide this service, which should be used primarily for convenience on long trips. Also glad to see your Soul EV pulling very close to what it's rated for- an underrated early offering imo. Thank you for your thoughtful reflections- many chase clout and clickbait, but you seek to educate, and I learned something today. Another well-earned subscriber who's excited for 1k. Keep it up.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Thank you for the kind words. I’m trying hard to carve out my own voice in the EV KZbin world and not follow what everyone else is doing. Thank you for the subscription, I really do appreciate it. I am still in awe of how well the Kia Soul EV is doing in range and charging after 80k+ kilometres driven over the last 3 years. Still a great EV.

[@gerhardk98]

The way I look at DC fast chargers is that they are a convenience and I am ok paying a premium. 95% of my charging is at 7 cents per kWh.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Same here. I charge mostly at home and I limit my DC charging to road trips.

[@Mandocellist]

Yes, per kWh billing is the only logical choice. That said, it looks like EC used the change to hide a massive price increase. Based on your two charging sessions, the price more than doubled. As a LEAF driver, I think the change will be good for me (especially on the third or fourth charge on a road trip, once the battery is toasty warm and the BMS is throttling the charging speed).

[@LeftCoastEV]

I made this point in my video: now the playing field is level and no matter if you are driving a Leaf or a brand new EV6 you will pay the same for the energy you put into your vehicle. No longer must we pray that the charger we will stop at will function properly and give us the maximum charging speed that it advertises (and our vehicle can take). However, you are right. EC did hide a huge price increase, but if it means more charging infrastructure in the future I am all for it. Thanks for watching!

[@gerhardk98]

One other thought by time billing has a built in incentive for people to quit charging at 80% since the cost per kWh increased as charging slowed.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Didn’t think of that and yes you are right. Good point!

[@Snerdles]

It actually got cheaper per kWh when moving from time to consumption. Especially if you had a vehicle that was unable to cap the charger capacity. The problem is that DC fast charging in general is about as expensive as gas and it already doesn't include things like road taxes to cover road maintenance. The Electrify Canada near my house is a 350 and charges 60 cents per kWh. The electricity rate I pay at home is 12.5 cents per kWh. If you have a super efficient car and pull 6KM per kWh that means 10 cents per KM. A similar car getting 6L per 100km at $1.65 per liter you are paying 9.9 cents per km. My plugin hybrid gets more like 4.5L per 100km so it's far cheaper just to use gas over a public charger.

[@Lorwildrose]

Where’s that charging station, red deer? Not that I’ll use it. I couldn’t get an account with EC to work on the app.

[@LeftCoastEV]

It’s located at 6720 52 Avenue in Red Deer right next to a Save On Foods supermarket and Gas Plus station. But they also have plenty of Supercharging for Ford owners in Red Deer and we all know that is more reliable anyway.

[@Lorwildrose]

@@LeftCoastEV I have tried the superchargers but the station I went to wasn’t looked after and some had corroded pins in the charging handle. Another location the one I got to work only maxed out at 49kwh down to 37kwh. So the Tesla experience isn’t all it’s bragged about.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing this info.

[@tomuschrysos]

how’s the Kia soul EV? Real world range any good? What year is yours?

[@LeftCoastEV]

Mine is a 2021 Kia Soul EV Limited. Highway range in summer is around 350km. And this is after 3 years and $80k+ kilometres on the odometer. I am planning to do a range test this summer along the same route that I did my winter extreme run just to compare.

[@victorseal9047]

Surely during the winter months you will benefit ??😮

[@LeftCoastEV]

If you mean kWh charging, then yes definitely. When it was time based, winter driving was more expensive as my Kia does not have battery preconditioning.

[@Wiseguy1138]

Wow the western provinces get all the newer charger tech. I have only seen 2 Electrify Canada stations around Ottawa (one in the east end, and one an hour away in Brockville) and both are the old stations. But I will say they’re the only ones who have any kind of shade/shelter. All the rest are the old Flo/Electric Circuit big blue boxes with barely legible calculator screens or level 2 chargers. My 2023 Soul EV can do up to 100kw/h but it never gets those speeds but realistically most of the aforementioned chargers we have top out at 50kw/h. But I hear you, my next car I’m making it a point to have MANUAL battery preconditioning. I want a button that I can control, not have to rely on some algorithm or forcing to use the in-car navigation system. And yes I hope these companies actually invest in Canada (not just the US infrastructure) but also invest in Central Canada because again all the videos I see show that Alberta and BC are years ahead on infrastructure than Ontario is. Quebec is ok but they’ve always been top notch with hydro.

[@LeftCoastEV]

I’ve said it many times and I will say it again: manual battery preconditioning has to be standard on every EV. All the new 2024 VW EVs now come with a button on the infotainment and allow you to stat preconditioning when you want to. They also tell you an approximate time needed to get full speed charging when on a road trip. All cars need this. And, yes, I hope all the price increases with charging will in turn make it so companies invest in infrastructure more especially in Provinces like Ontario.

[@terrystanski7814]

I was surprised that it cost more vs time charging. By the way, did you ever find out what happened with your ev brake failure you posted a video about?

[@LeftCoastEV]

The brake failure was caused by an ECU issue and the ECU had to be replaced. Kia did not get in touch with me and did not provide more info. Tried reaching out to them multiple times to no avail. Maybe one day if my channel gets bigger and I get to speak with someone from Kia I will try to get an answer.

[@JetFire9]

Sold my Tesla after it broke down on the side of the road after only 5K miles and I found out with a quick search that this happens more often with new EV's than any new ICE cars. One of the extra pluses of selling my Tesla is that I laugh at the suckers every time I pass a public charger, and I am thank the Lord I know longer have to plug in every time I get home.

[@westcoastbestcoast88]

I agree that kWh billing is more fair for the consumer and I like the model that Electrify Canada is doing with the membership and this lower charging cost. Some chargers are way too expensive like the Tesla Magic Dock in Calgary. I know they also offer a membership but it’s still more than Electrify Canada. Very good video thanks for discussing this topic.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Yes the Tesla chargers are the most expensive options but they are more reliable than other providers. Thanks for the thoughts and glad you liked the video.

[@rozonoemi9374]

And more in quantité of station

[@LeftCoastEV]

Indeed. We need more and more of them that is for sure!

[@rosiekong5472]

Agree that we need more reliable charging stations and if a price increase like this makes it so companies invest more, I’m ok with it.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Let’s hope that by us paying more they will also invest more in infrastructure.

[@mike73ng]

One day, if the vast majority have switched or been forced to switch to EV’s, the cost will continue to increase to the point that solar and alternative means of producing power will become more economical. That’s when they will find a way to tax the sun. They are not going to let some people enjoy “free” power while the rest have to pay through the nose.

[@briank9354]

They need to ban these stupid memberships for charging

[@LeftCoastEV]

I don’t mind paying the $7 to Electrify Canada when I am on a road trip and know I will be using their chargers often. Then when I come back I cancel it. They savings can be quite good. Would I be paying them monthly if not taking a road trip? Nope, I won’t.

[@tamjeff1751]

Electrify America is so fast. More expensive yes but it's so fast and the turnover is fast. I tried buying some shoes and apparel and was in a hurry because the. Charging was finished so fast. 28 dollars cdn? From Renton and back to South Van. Definitely the cheapest way to get there

[@LeftCoastEV]

Glad you had a good experience. What EV are you driving?

[@tamjeff1751]

Hyundai ioniq 38kw

[@bradryan8071]

When they built the bridge from PEI to the mainland, a trip across the bridge was the same price as the cost of taking the Ferry, with the DUMB rational that if that's what the Ferry cost, then people will be glad to pay that price to use the bridge instead. ( Regardless of what the cost should have been to say pay the bridge off in a certain amount of time ). Filling up a car with a tank of Gas is now between $80 - $120 for people with gasoline engines. I am predicting right now, that as the government loses its gas taxes and revenues when more and more people someday switch to electric, the cost of charging a car will get closer and closer to the cost of filling up a tank of gas, thus nullifying the great advantage of switching to electric.

[@LeftCoastEV]

They can control public charging, but home charging will remain affordable. It will be hard for them to regulate the plugs in my own home. And I haven’t mentioned solar power yet which I plan to install in my home soon and make charging my EV even more affordable.

[@bradryan8071]

@@LeftCoastEV A friend of mine was a senior executive in a power company. He says that grids are not even close to being able to provide electrical charging ability to many homes on one street. As more homes charge their EV's there will be an infrastructure cost to upgrade and more importantly, the government due to lost gas revenue will upcharge your electrical rate at your home if you are using a charger. I dont mean to be negative, as I love the idea of electric cars, but I am too used to government hands in our pockets.

[@68RedDragonz]

usage based is best... otherwise you penalize the people with slower charging cars, and the people that can afford the faster charging cars are unfairly benefitting. bc hydro is usage based and starts a penalty charge 5 minutes after charging is finished to prompt people to clear out.

[@tonymcflattie2450]

I like per minute, unless the charger is glitching and derating

[@LeftCoastEV]

And if you have a fast charging EV!

[@VishnuKamath]

The prices should come down. If you have high speed charging ev then time based is better else kwh based

[@LeftCoastEV]

Exactly. If your car can charge fast and the charger works as expected then yes time is cheaper.

[@dougabbott8261]

They need to integrate good chargers with a place to grab something to eat , shop etc. Price for charging is still pretty cheap when compared to gassing up. Hopefully the government will push for more and better charging.

[@LeftCoastEV]

Totally agree. Make charging like a gas station. When I am there I will stay for a few minutes and would love a coffee and a snack.