Hazbin Hotel Was Pretty Neat

Hazbin Hotel finally came out. It was fine.
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00:00 - Introduction
01:11 - Charlie
09:42 - Vaggie
12:46 - Angel Dust
18:55 - Pacing and Discourse
24:03 - Parasocial Twitter Drama
29:05 - Alastor's Appropriation of Vodou
31:28 - Conclusion
#hazbinhotel #vivziepop

[@Lily_Orchard]

READ THIS FIRST 1. Minor Oversight: A "Stolen Observation" credit was neglected. The remark about Christianity spreading itself across rhe world while other religions are more closed off during the Alastor Vodou section was taken from a Hazbin Hotel viewer named Jexxer357. 2. Please stop telling me why Alastor is a wendigo. If it's not in the show, it's not counted.

[@JoshuaCrook250]

the*

[@domenicodecaro5154]

This video just got me subscribed. Great job, I’ll check out your other videos.

[@axelpettersson1482]

Why do you not like Lore Olympus?

[@wisdommanari6701]

That's not what she said ​@@axelpettersson1482

[@user-ox3du2pv2v]

Ceasefire joke with sent me back to reality bruh💀

[@JynxIsEnbee]

"Futurama for reddit atheists" I'm pretty sure Futurama is Futurama for reddit atheists

[@kakroom3407]

it is

[@harlomints7727]

i dont even get what that comment meant tbh 😭 in what world does the hazbin artsyle remind anyone of futurama

[@blueaddiction6954]

Futurama actually was good

[@gloomy344]

@@harlomints7727its not about the artstyle its about the jokes

[@user-ds9wl2oy3f]

On god that comment made me pause and go "Huh??"

[@sweetpea2604]

What I especially love about episode 4 is the song Loser, Baby. Not only because Keith David has a beautiful singing voice, but because it’s not a song that holds your hand & gives you false hope that every things gonna be okay, because the truth is that it’s not that simple. And it can actually lead down a path of toxic positivity, which we learn from Inside Out. So instead it says “Your not the only one who’s suffering, and if you open up about you’ll see that your not alone in this fucked up world and you’ll probably recover a lot more because now you have a healthy support group”

[@cortomaltese5206]

Its a mature song

[@Pamela-dv7gb]

@@cortomaltese5206it’s a mature show and sex jokes isn’t immature by the way . Just look montreux comedy festival. I really like this moral because it’s original and I just can’t understand how people say it’s an KID show

[@cintaminbunny]

I remember years ago i watched Cinema Sins review The Princess and the Frog and he insulted Keith David's voice. I'm happy to hear him do something else and get positive recognition.

[@vogelOTG]

Not owning a Twitter just always sounds like one of the best choices I keep making.

[@youtube-kit9450]

Yeah, twitter is brainrot incarnate and I literally only have an account to follow exactly one account about something and don't engage in anything else. Instagram used to be fine, but over the pandemic, it became neaerly as brain dead.

[@Viod753]

@@whatdoiputhere3755 Why you hating bro?

[@DJRainbowToxic]

@@whatdoiputhere3755 twitter person spotted lol, why so salty over facts?

[@DJRainbowToxic]

@@whatdoiputhere3755 bro got mad over 1 simple word that's not even offensive lmao.

[@XainRussell]

I'll be honest, this made me actually interested in giving the show a shot, mostly because you're so far the only person I've seen talk at length about the show beyond the criticisms. It's just nice to hear someone actually talk about what the show is about, and not just endless hate for the product and the production, ESPECIALLY when it's unsubstantiated hate.

[@dazedandconfused5711]

Right. The show has its flaws, but more people need to give it its flowers. Great music, great animation, interesting worldbuilding.

[@joybouley9314]

I honestly trust lily more than most other creators when it comes to critics and reviews because unlike other she actually says what she means ofc do my own research but most of it still aline with what she says

[@xellos305]

Start with the pilot, there's a lot in there and a lot of people put in a lot of time on it and it's definitely worth a watch but it sets up everything. Granted there are some changes between the pilot and the series pay it no mind. Really, I mean it pay it no mind. There are references and setups in the pilot that get used in the series. All I can say for myself and the series is I love it, I really don't care that it's messy or slow at points, I like show don't tell, and observant media, I like to rewatch things because I don't catch everything the first time around, and this is like heaven for me. I love all of the hidden bits. It is really satisfying to me being able to watch the show over and over again and catch something that I missed on a previous viewing. Also the music is just plain amazing, anybody that says the music is not good has no taste. There's no helping the tone deaf. Please do enjoy the show because I have and continue to do.

[@Mortal2064]

Same, this video has made me genuinely consider watching the show. Edit: I've gotten to episode 4. Husker is my favorite character and loser baby is my favorite song (from the show, nowhere near my actual favorite songs IN GENERAL/ of all time, but you get the gist.)

[@GiggyWiggy2086]

​@@dazedandconfused5711yup only downside that people are not letting down like if someone committed hate crimes was the pacing was too quick

[@honeyjaigaming5912]

What i really like is that Charlie never said anything about breaking up with Vaggie, only that she did not know how/if she could fully trust her again. i am glad that the prospect of breaking up, even if it was for half an episode, was not considered it was just them have some space to sort out their own feelings and forgiveness of the secret-keeping. Also, i am glad you did a video on this, love hearing from you.

[@Crystal_Clearly]

Exactly!! Nowadays it’s like a popular trend to immediately break up instead of working problems out, Im so happy this doesn’t happen between Charlie and Vaggie.

[@johnwebb2736]

Yeah, and when Rosie asked Chalrie if she still had feeling for Vaggie she said yes but hesitates and then says yes again. That was golden, it showed that even if she was hurt by Vaggie she still loves her at the end of the day.

[@KingHiki]

It’s honestly refreshing to see a creator who allows minor characters to be minor characters. Nifty was one of my favorite characters from season 1 and her entire character is just a one note joke and that’s all she needs to be not every needs 5 pages worth of backstory to be entertaining and if they ever do decide to go in depth with with her (like they did with Sir Pentious) I’ll be all for it.

[@carnage0685]

I mean I’d prefer to get more of a background on her and how she ended up with Alastor but yeah nothing more.

[@johnmarcusengreso8273]

Yeah The only reason why sir pentious was deep was because the story demanded for it. Cause the story would be deeper if this character was deeper.

[@momslayer981]

im pretty sure nifty is actually 22 years old

[@KingHiki]

@@momslayer981 I meant minor meaning less important not underage

[@momslayer981]

@@KingHiki ah mb I guess I'm chronically online

[@roryaphunter]

As someone who really loves this show, thank you for, as usual, bringing a really strong and fair analysis to it and bringing up points you tend not to see elsewhere. You're a really talented critic.

[@X-SPONGED]

23:23 "You loathe the eight episode season because that means Viv has less time to establish world building and develop Hell lore. I loathe the eight episode format because that means we get less time seeing these characters interact with each other in hilarious and sometimes unexpectedly emotional ways. *_We are not the same."_* The one thing that surprised me about HH is how easily they're able to make me care about a character or a character dynamic in such a short time. Angel getting his character development in ep 4 and Husk finally interacting with another character without bouting his usual uninterested asshole demeanor is so refreshing. Rosie went from somebody I barely know the existence of to one of my favorite characters in the whole show, her pairing with Alastor just oozes charm that I love. When I realized the finale was going to be on ep 8, I was heartbroken because that meant we had less time to find more interesting character dynamics and establish them in a fun way. The same reason applies why then I immediately perked up when I heard they were renewed for a 2nd season. I don't want some elaborate 20 minute loredump explanation on why hell's main colour palette is black and red or why the angels' main music genre is pop. I just want more time seeing my favorite characters interact with one another, and that's the joy of stories, isn't it? Seeing how your figurines interact with each other in this gigantic playset you created. I mean, what do you remember from LoTR? The characters or the explanation on why Frodo and Sam could survive such a long journey through mordor with only a few slices of bread?

[@deamoninyourdreams7612]

In that way (as in having more time for character interaction outside of the main plot), I reccomend Helluva Boss. I mean, of course it has its own problems - for example meshing comedy with serious moments and some episodes pacing - but all around thanks to there being no megathreat across the whole series (like externination is in HH) it allows more time for characters just being themselves. The top 5 episodes in terms of not having bad pacing and good serious/funny balance for me are: S1 E6,7,8 and S2 E6,7

[@anenbylittlepotato9737]

OH another thing I'd really like to point out with Angel and Charlie's relationship is that throughout the entire episode he is anxiously trying to protect Charlie from Valentino. Like when he first sees her there, he immediately freaks out and tries to get her to leave before Valentino notices, and then when Valentino does notice, you can SEE the terror in his face. And then when Val flies off the handle at him and does the "When I say ___ you say" thing, Angel doesn't hesitate to say "Yes, Valentino" to all of the things that involve HIM, but then when Valentino tells him to get rid of Charlie... he hesitates. And instead of saying "Yes Valentino" like the rest, he starts making excuses for her. He says "Please don't hurt her." And then when he yells at Charlie to leave, you can hear the way his voice cracks, how hurt he sounds. He doesn't WANT to yell at Charlie. But he knows that that's the only way to get her to leave and get her out of this situation. He doesn't care about the harm being caused to himself. He just doesn't want Charlie to endure the same thing he's had to. And I love that about him.

[@queenbee3561]

He’s such a nice guy, fuck Valentino!

[@ninkepie3764]

Well yeah, it's not like the scene was cryptic or anything. It was right there in front of us. Angel dust is a is a literal angel. Sometimes i guess.

[@chadnorris8257]

Sad thing is, Charlie could probably break Val in half, if she wasn't so nice. Val can't hurt Charlie. She should be leagues above everyone in that area. She's just such a marshmallow that nobody's afraid of her.

[@BaronB.BlazikenBaronOfBarons]

For the part about not getting an in-depth backstory for all of the mega bosses of Hell, that’s like…a standard thing in stories. A meeting between high-ranking people that are important in the world, but not _that_ important to the specific narrative of the show. There was a similar scene in Arcane, the League of Legends Netflix show, where the leaders of the crime syndicates Silco has have a meeting and only two show up after that point, with one only really mattering to a subplot to the show.

[@AviciPerry]

It's just another instance of people being pissy about regular-ass story telling just because cartoon fandom has a deep-rooted brain rot from the 2010s

[@mr.p215]

yes but none of the chem barons got a song now did they?

[@ethanf41]

I personally don't understand the 'rushed' argument. Yes it sucks that we didn't have 24 episodes this season given how great the show is, but then those same people hammer helluva for the plot not moving. Sometimes you don't actually need a ton of content so long as what is there is incredibly effective.

[@AviciPerry]

It's cus they don't want story happening they want lore dumps like Lily says at 21:19, they want stuff to fluff their wikis with not for the story to move forward

[@thunderdrum325]

It's not about padding out wiki's, I'd say we just want some breathing room. Although that might just be a 24 minute run time issue than an episode amount issue

[@AviciPerry]

@@thunderdrum325 I guess, I personally don't care. The episodes are tight and they waste no time, honestly, I prefer this kind of pacing over characters diddling around doing nothing to move the story forward. Like Luz in the latter half of The Owl House suddenly developing a different trauma response so the writers can have her sit still doing nothing or have the same lesson beaten into her by 3 different characters

[@BintanginTaya]

​@@thunderdrum325 Wouldn't not binging the show solves that issue?

[@dearestdarling2241]

@@AviciPerry I don't need to fill my wikis (don't have any) but would like to know more about the character dynamics and worldbuilding. That's what I've always enjoyed in stories. I understand they can't and won't do that here. And I'm okay with it. It's still done fairly well and is entertaining.

[@StyleshStorm]

That thumbnail of Alastor is my facial expression by the end of each day at night.

[@daviddimitrov3696]

My god drama is so annoying and I'm so tired of every creator being accused of every crime under the sun just cos some little b* on twitter decided he didn't like them.

[@shcdemolisher]

At somepoint we are gonna have to get rid of twitter since it’s a threat to our society in the extreme near future because of this stuff. I mean seriously, plus the fact that people are SO comfortable talking shit online that you KNOW they would never say in person due to them getting punched for it.

[@ArtemisMoon90]

Honestly, I kinda enjoy the fact that during the 7th episode Carmilla Carmine basically laughs at the fans who have zero media literacy with her "it's not rocket science" line. More people need to learn how to understand both visual storytelling as well as subtext. Way too many people seem to need to be beaten over the head with a story's meaning or lessons for them to understand it.

[@carnage0685]

I mean I just didn’t think it was possible for Vaggie to be an exorcist. I think the fact that I didn’t know they actually had faces under their masks was part of why.

[@Olivian2006]

Those are the people that are named nr 1 in high-school at memorizing shit then they get shit on at a real job where they actually need some observation skills(depends on job tho)

[@Alex-uv3td]

yeah but like...vaggy was not even supposed to be an angel to beggin with, viv had a whole bac;kstory and the fans theories of her being an angel was added bec;ause of the fans....so fan theorising from the visuals was wrong

[@Crystal_Clearly]

@@Alex-uv3td Do you have proof that Vivzie took the idea of Vaggie being an exterminator from the fan theories?

[@AviciPerry]

15:30 reminded me of a bit from Just Stop's video "Hazbin Hotel vs The Death of Media Literacy", specifically at the 17-minute mark where he mentions that young people who have gone through this kind of abuse may have a hard time differentiating from what's personally too much for them from what actually cross the line into fetishization. I think that can be expanded into people thinking that because the scene makes them feel uncomfortable it's fetishizing Angel's abuse but like... That scene is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable. I think that a part of the issue stems from the parasocial hatred people have for Medrano and another part of it is that its young audience can't differentiate from personally uncomfortable to actually way too much to display on screen

[@Lily_Orchard]

When pressed, a lot of the people accusing this of fetishization claimed that the reason was "vibes"

[@AviciPerry]

@@Lily_Orchard yikes

[@Minkerdoodle01]

@@Lily_Orchard it didn't come across as fetishization until i looked into the person who boarded all the scenes of the abuse. Please do check and see. This person HAS a fetish, admittedly so. Obviously vivizie doesnt need to check what fetishes her employees have before hiring them but to let someone with an SA fetish who is also admittedly NOT a victim... board the scene? Draw all the images? Decide how it will be portrayed? It's a little weird.

[@AviciPerry]

@@Minkerdoodle01 i mean even if they did the storyboard it doesn’t at all come through in the finished product so who cares?

[@BintanginTaya]

​@@Minkerdoodle01 I thought storyboard artists follow the Creator/ Script?

[@maxismills]

21:15 this is so real. This summarizes how I feel about fandom for the past 2 years. Everyone is so quick to criticize without being patient enough to let the author/creator take time to explain a plot point later down the line. Everything must be given all explanations NOW or people freak out. I hate it so much

[@Lily_Orchard]

I've seen people counter how generous I am with this show by pointing out how harsh I was about Steven Universe. The thing is, I wasn't harsh on it 8 episodes in. It was 100 episodes before I started calling it garbage. This video was hit with this same thing. Over on Tumblr I got people demanding I talk about every little petty grievance they had with the show RIGHT NOW and eventually it was like "shut the fuck up and wait for the video!"

[@blockyuniverseproductions6587]

You know, given Alistor's "unworldly" aesthetic (and also the tendrils he seems to be able to use), I think it would have caused fewer problems if Vivzie had just stolen from HP Lovecraft rather than Voudou.

[@AviciPerry]

That would have actually solved the whole problem since the problem is appropriating voodoo, she should've stuck to what she knows instead of using an already demonized religion with no sensitivity readers, she bit off more than she could chew there

[@danielsurvivor1372]

What's interesting is that Stolas Dad(or Stolas himself) mentions the HP Lovecraft monster, something about comet tears.

[@dand1253]

I'm holding out hope that they can somehow salvage it for the second season, rather than just cutting it entirely. Admittedly I'm neither a practitioner nor tremendously knowledgeable about Vodoun, but given that the show actively dynamites any idea of Heaven's legitimacy it feels like they can carve out space for something that gives this religion some worthwhile cultural representation.

[@deceitfulhero1723]

​@@danielsurvivor1372 I think it was Azathoth's Tears, but Hazbin also has a bit of Lovecraftian with Sleviathan (or whatever the name is) being I think Charlie's ex boyfriend and the family being close friends with her dad. They have Lovecraftian ideas in both shows, they know it exists.

[@scp--297]

Facts! That would be fantastic.😂

[@lovablegoblin7237]

I want to also put a little thing about angel dust abuse and his personality. It's extremely common for SA survivors to become extremely se×ual in public and around their friends after and during the abuse because most of the time survivors will be convinced or convince themselves that they are nothing but se×ual objects and will be nothing more than that. This is coming from someone with that experience and is learning to change how I view myself and thats reflecting in my personality.

[@Lily_Orchard]

I have experience with this myself

[@HAXRLITSXY]

I fucking HATE when people say they fixed a design. 1 thats horrible, assuming your tastes are better than someone else, and 2 assuming you know whats behind the designs, inspiration, what the creator is trying to make you feel about a character via visual design and so much more. you can say this is my take on these characters, BUT you can NEVER say you fixed them!

[@doctorrobert1339]

I don't mind people sharing their own interpretations of a character, but yes, so many people were being incredibly annoying about it and it mostly came from a place of dislike to the show, not genuine creativity.

[@dannyvalward1524]

​@@doctorrobert1339 If you say "fixed" it's inherindly arrogant, but if you tag it as "drew it in my style", "my take" etc. I think it's a tribute to the original.

[@indorfan]

EXACTLY, I saw someone on twitter say they "fixed" alastors design, now most of the design was fine but instead of keeping the sharp teeth and smile they gave him fucking bugs bunny teeth, the smile is like his entire thing omfg

[@d4n737]

not to mention, most of those "Fixed" designs are a giant stepdown

[@BrightWulph]

Oh fr, some of the "fixed" designs sometimes deviate so far from the OG character that they might as well be an entirely different character. XO

[@Emilyrox]

Honestly, twitter harping on about issues that don't actually exist (such as the """"fetishizing"""""" of Angel's abuse) and insisting the show should be cancelled for it, while at the same time dismissing the one actual legit criticism of the show (the appropriation of Vodou), is the most twitter thing ever.

[@georgeharrisonfricklas7927]

@@inquisitorgrynthebandito2736 never once did I say that only black people could practice Vodou

[@TempestDarkwound]

@@georgeharrisonfricklas7927He is part Creole. His mother probably taught him VooDoo. So shut the f up.

[@user-pi8pi3wj7h]

​@@kaylonhorohiwa1169 it's not, but okay

[@user-pi8pi3wj7h]

​@@inquisitorgrynthebandito2736 please stop with these false equivalences. You clearly aren't Haitian. If you were you'd know that the show is not "bringing light" to voodoo, it is blatantly appropriating it. And no, the way norse religions or christianity get treated is NOT the same way west african and Caribbean religions have been treated historically. Colonism and racism play a massive part in this. Stop speaking on matters you do not understand to defend this show

[@kaylonhorohiwa1169]

@@user-pi8pi3wj7h Disagree

[@Fenristhemoonraiser]

If I remember correctly, one of the things that affects a sinners appearance is how they died. Alastor died by being shot in the head by a hunter who mistook him for a deer. That also why you see an x on his head when he uses his powers.

[@cintaminbunny]

Thats actually kind of funny.

[@pkmnherofan22]

Save the Bon from twitter discourse. I was genuinely surprised as well how good the series was and I really liked the pilot. My hope is that the shit storm will die down and Medrano will be more receptive to the criticisms about alastor like she was about Vaggie. Another thing I liked is how the songs tie in to Lilith as her bringing songs to hell reflect that influence she still has on it even when she’s not there. Good start, let’s hope this keeps up and another banger video as usual

[@PerfectInzanity82]

The one legit complaint I've seen (from Council of Geeks) related to Angel Dust wasn't directly related to SA but instead about how it was the part of a wider media trend where the only way to humanize sex workers is through making them abuse victims forced to it. And even then that video very much specified that Angel Dust was both a part of a problematic larger trend when it comes to portraying sex work and an excellent portrayal of abuse, because *gasp* things can be many different things at once.

[@Lily_Orchard]

The reality is that you can't portray sex work honestly without dealing with the fact that, at it's best, the sex work industry is an abusive hellscape of unregulated capitalism. The reason we keep depicting sex workers as being forced into it is because most of them are. I understand wanting to portray sex workers positively, but you shouldn't lie about the state of the industry. It IS coercive, and it IS abusive.

[@GraveyardMaiden]

Unfortunately that is the reality of sex work for majority of people in it. Like it is how the industry is, people join it out of desperation or got groomed into doing it by older people telling them it's an easy way to pay for college and boosting confidence leaving out the fact that the majority of clients are abusive creeps. Like sure there's a minority of people who are happy doing it but they were already privileged and well off that to them their sexy only fans pics is just starting a KZbin gaming channel. And like it's more dangerous for sex workers who are trying to to speak out against the abuse from the sex industry presenting sex work as a golden milk cow filled with empowered sex idols, because people will just point to the well off idols and tell abuse victims that they're lying and the sex industry is perfectly fine. And like I'm sorry but humanizing abuse victims takes higher priority over glamorizing idols in my book, especially since there are sex workers being murdered and people saying they deserved it

[@roryaphunter]

@@Lily_Orchard this is like the second or third time i've noticed you paraphrasing Innuendo Studios, because the "abusive hellscape of unregulated capitalism" line reminds me of a line from "The Ship of Theseus". It's cool to know you watch his stuff too.

[@MysticDiamonds5566]

I honestly saw it for what it is. It's Hells Adult Film Industry being run by a pimp, Valentino, whose admitted to killing people who step out of line and since it's Hell there's no legal way to hold him accountable. While Lily Orchard is right about the porn industry as a legal industry While in much of the world, prostitution is pretty much an unregulated black market.

[@BrightWulph]

It's kind of unfortunate, I remember watching one of those real cop shows, like the ones where they're followed around by a camera crew to try and show some of the realities of working as an officer (it wasn't as overproduced as some American shows, but I do wonder how sanitised it really was). Anyway, one episode followed an officer who had to make a bust on some sex workers some were also doing drug dealing on the side. The officer was interviewed after the episode and said he felt really bad for these ladies because they weren't criminals in his eyes, but drug addicts and needed help not jail. But they did break the law, so he had no choice but to arrest them. It was pretty eye-opening to an, at the time, 16 yo me.

[@supremedarkoverladyoftheco8120]

I got the impression that while he starts to care about Charlie, he also very much has planned to use her from the start and her father coming in to be a support in her life would make her less vulnerable. I hope I'm wrong, though. I like Alastor.

[@dr.blockcraft6633]

While that Could be Part of It, alastor Has an Ego, and A very Big one At that. He likes Feeling superior, And looking Down on Everyone. Lucifer is Innately more Powerful than Alistor, so Alastor looked For ways To get Under his Skin, to Regain that Sense of Control.

[@supremedarkoverladyoftheco8120]

@@dr.blockcraft6633 True, he does enjoy people fearing him.

[@BrightWulph]

I do have a theory that Alistor does care about the Hotel and the "misfits" inside more than he'd like to admit, but he clearly has some kind of hidden agenda. That said, I do remember Viv saying that she was undecided if Alistor believed redemption was possible or not, so who knows. He might at first think it's impossible, but he could change his mind.

[@jitterbug4245]

What's funny is the fact that people consider a 17 year old dating a 19 year old is "pedophilia." Like dude, my parents are 4 years apart. And isn't 17 already close enough to being an adult? Imagine if the 19 year old was an 18 year old, omg tHe HoRrOr. 🤦‍♀️

[@eveapples7968]

They are old enough to be in the same class too. Also the Romeo and Juliet law exists for a reason

[@Mortal2064]

Wait, flipping between "being warm and welcoming" and "being full of rage when the first option doesn't get you what you want" is a manipulation tactic? Huh... I just thought my mom was impatient, but now i have to question how much of that is intentional...

[@Lily_Orchard]

It's more of trying to lovebomb and becoming irate when it doesn't immediately get results. Best way to test someone's sincerity is to refuse them.

[@chrisgaga6970]

[spoiler comment] I really love how conservative viewers were rooting for Adam only to get seriously pissed off when he dies in the end by nifty which became my favorite part of the show 😂

[@skeletonsinscarves3965]

Its literally the best scene

[@AngelBirdo]

@@VietReze Is,,, that why you're on a video about Hazbin, then?

[@Moundshroud.]

@@JaneDoeValentine He just told you.

[@JaneDoeValentine]

@@tanepukenga1421 they literally admitted they agree with fascists. beat it with that "different political opnion uwu" crap

[@LucifersNumber1Fan]

I am not conservative at all and I liked Adam as a character, he was funny and all that, and I was sad when he died. 🤷‍♂️

[@troperhghar9898]

Hazbin Hotel gives me a similar feeling as Steven Universe and I finally understand why, these shows are what happens when the head writer is an artist first and a writer second A trained writer wouldn't go on weird tangents, things that are important would be brought up earlier, the characters arcs would make sense, ect But an artist would just say "wouldn't it be cool if we did this?"

[@AviciPerry]

At least it seems that Vivzie has her writing team keeping her in check for the most part

[@kaykay8855]

@@AviciPerrythat’s what I’m saying.

[@Pamela-dv7gb]

Vivzie is a good writer. Not as good as breaking bad ones but she has lot of imagination and I’m addicted to his universe because I want see more.I even started to watch some cringe video just for see more of these characters and I can’t wait for season 2 but I can understand why some people don’t like it but i think it deserve at least an 5/10 because it’s not like if it was police paradise (awful piece of crap)

[@lenaalt2387]

@@Pamela-dv7gb yup, really shocked by how much i like and am looking forward to seeing more of this series

[@SilentMaryKate]

I don't think the angels are homophobic, just disapproving of an angel (Vaggie) and a demon (Charlie) becoming an item.

[@athenapromachos3027]

True, but Adam's comment was fucking gross regardless. Dead now though!

[@AviciPerry]

I mean the subtext was there tho, i don't think Adam's "Hot as fuck tho" was about Vaggie and Charlie being an angel and a demon

[@carnage0685]

@@AviciPerryI took it as Lute was pissed an angel and a demon were in love and Adam thought a woman and a woman being in love was hot as fuck. He doesn’t seem to be disproving of the fact they’re the same sex.

[@jdk2535]

@@carnage0685he’s fetishizing them

[@sunnyinthemachine8274]

@@carnage0685 why is it so hard to believe that, in a series where even minor sins are enough to get you sent to hell, the angels can't be homophobic? Besides the fact that thinking two girls together are 'hot as fuck' is not accepting their relationship, he's getting off on it. This is baseline stuff.

[@meemmahn2856]

The deer thing at 30:47 is a coincidence. Alastor was shot by a deer hunter in deer hunting grounds accidentally.

[@Pantalaymo]

I really felt your section about the community's obsession with lore. I engaged a bit with the reddit-communtiy of Hazbin Hotel and I find it really strange how hyper-focussed people there seem to be with things like battle-manga power hierarchies and supposed big implications of visual details. People seem to be unable to just enjoy/accept things happening without riding it all the way to wiki-theory-hell.

[@dand1253]

It's always a weird phenomenon for me, since my own brain looooves to start riffing and spinning convoluted webs of nonsense when presented with the slightest hint of lore in a fictional property. It's just how I'm wired. But when I get insistent and emotional about _my specific ideas_ on lore, I recognize that this is a _problem!_ Honestly, I'm deeply saddened by the fact that I can't comfortably discuss my ideas about Dark Souls, because for whatever reason I can't disentangle myself from the borderline visceral response I have to people challenging my opinions and ideas for what's going on with it. With Hazbin Hotel... sure, I'm interested by some of the details you need to go fishing for outside the show itself (and certain details, like how all human sinners are essentially ghettoized and trapped within the Circle of Pride, feel like they should merit at least a passing mention in the show). I'm happy to woolgather to my internet friends about my theories of Heavenly radioactivity and the utility of soul-collecting and even a possible reading of why Eve was given the Forbidden Fruit and why Lucifer fell into such despair after doing so. But that's my brain doing what it does. At worst, it's a harmless way for me to entertain myself. At best, I can tweak and twist and cannibalize those theories for my own creative work later on. Why the fuck would I _get mad_ about it? That's a failure state.

[@sharonoddlyenough]

I think that communities like Reddit tend to concentrate the folks who are obsessed with a topic and kick out or ostracize those who think differently. It makes sense to not get it, they are a minority of the fandom as a whole and rather extreme.

[@Robynhoodlum]

As a hardcore fan of both Hazbin Hotel and Helluva boss, I one hundred percent love the “fast” pace. I have when stuff is drawn out unnecessarily. The best part about fandom is rewatching the show and gleaming new info that you missed the first time. It gives the world rich lore without bogging down the story. I also agree the Vivzie hate is toxic and petty and I do my best to not engage with that side of the fandom. Glad you gave the show a second chance.

[@kevinmccalister4602]

I agree completely and just wanted to share this because it's one of the biggest reasons I love the show. Charlie is sort of like Abraham Lincoln crossed with a classic musical Disney princess. She sees an unjust system that in no way harms her and takes a stand against it purely on a moral level. At first she tries legal methods of reform and that fails. Then despite winning in court her enemies start a war with her. Adam decides to go after her directly despite having won his court case/ The confederacy declared war on the union despite black people being denied the right to ever be citizens. I can't think of a better way to describe Charlie than as a classic hero specifically the aristocrat who loves her country and it's people and actually does something on their behalf.

[@minimelon327]

In all honesty, Lily is right. I'm currently a Creative writing major in my junior year and I was just told by my professor that the only other character in my story has too much of a lore dump that could've been summed up in 5 or less sentences while my other character's problem is resolved too quickly in the name of world-building. Not once did my prof lecture me on "the lore" of what the overall story was or if the message was too convoluted with the "who's who" of what stories are today. Granted my focus is on novels and book-centered story telling, what I'm learning can still be used in other forms of media. "Show don't tell" works hella well when you can literally show what's happening rather than relying on a person's imagination since not everyone is going to see the same thing no matter how well you describe it. Hazbin only has 8 eps, which doesn't sound like a lot in today's standards, but that's enough time to plant "lore seeds" if everyone is more concerned about that. Which yeah I am one of those hardcore fans who HAS to know EVERY small detail about every character and possible AU, but it's really not necessary to know everything about everything. If you have to know everything about everything to understand what's going on in the main show and have to resort to going through different sorts of media like Wiki's and comics, then CONGRATS you did a shit job of basic story telling (I'm looking at you MLP G5). Yeah it's fun to have trivia, but not so much when you feel the need to "well actually....." some poor fella who just thought the show or game looked cool in passing, then you very well just ran off another potential asset to the fandom and you've made yourself sound like the typical 80s sitcom nerd. Well done. If people are really that upset about Hazbin S1 being a speedrun of content, why not think about it like a prologue? I'm pretty sure everyone in the fandom has read a fair amount of something (visual novels, books, comics, idfk) to know that a prologue can sometimes be more helpful in understanding the build up or later pay off. Like how in mystery novels there are little clues for the reader to hang on and pay attention to with the detective so you can feel like you're a part of the investigation. Or, if that doesn't work for you, think about timeline in conjunction with the show itself. Charlie was only given 6 months. Not a lot can happen in 6 months when no one outside the hotel actively wants to participate and everyday is practically the same formula of trust exercises, role playing, bonding seminars (assuming she'd try any method once), plus she was still trying to come up with other ideas to stop the extermination. Now I don't know about y'all but it takes more than a day for me to solve major life changing issues like that (if it takes you a day, you're a fucking God). While it could've been nice to have filler, it wouldn't have been too useful; it would've taken away the feeling of urgency and panic that was well placed through the show. Just imagine if Neil stopped for ice cream in the middle of The Matrix. It would've been nice to have a cool off and process what's going on but it'd feel out of place and take you out of the story as a whole. Having everything sped up really helped to convey everything's happening all at once and it's happening NOW. Or at least that's my take on this :3

[@piggregious4986]

Bachelor of Arts in English with a concentration of Communications and Media here! I must agree that complicating written word to sound depthful comes across as pretentious, if not tone deaf. I am no master writer, nor is that relevant, but basic principles require adherence for a reason; simplicity will always be a writer's best friend. Flowery poerty and scientific research are useful; however, those are circumstantial. What I've learned from my degree program is that stories do not exist in isolation, but not all stories are created equal. Fandom tries too hard when interconnecting stories for grander reasons when, in reality, there are stories that literally....meh? Picture this: your protagonist is experiencing America for the first time, yet some kid near her throws a temper tantrum about broken stuffed animals... who are you going to care about? A young first-generation immigrant hellbent on keeping her family stable from the leverage she may provide or a wee shithead without emotional awareness? A tangent won't be necessary by me since people like you and Lily seem heated already, but I'll add my two cents nobody asked for because it's the internet, baby. I'm so proud that you're studying well in college, though. Great things might come your way with enough gritting!

[@JaneDoeValentine]

25:40 Lily, don’t you know? That IS pedophilia! One is 19 and the other is 17! That’s an adult and minor! That’s the equivalent of a 40 year old and a 10 year old! In all seriousness, thank you for discussing how utterly stupid some of this “drama” is and I hate that it always overshadows the real, tangible conversations we should be having like with Alastor /sarc

[@basicwitch6562]

When I was in high school, a 17 year old boy was dating a 19 year old woman. They were an adorable couple, and the boy's parents were supportive because they were high school sweethearts and not predator/prey like with actual pedophilia. She was not old enough to be his mother, for one thing 😂

[@ospreysstuff]

the 17 year old character is canonically 18 according to viv, but it says 17 in the wiki for some reason

[@honeyjaigaming5912]

i get it, but in most places the legal age for s*x is 16, skating by the margin yes but not illegal. FYI i live in Australia and 16 is the minimum but i know other places are different (some allowing a minimum of 12, Yuck) if it was lower i would understand better but it really is skating the line.

[@latenightmoon767]

It’s not really most states have laws so that couples who are close to the line are fine. And plus it with in 19/2+ 7 equation

[@JaneDoeValentine]

@@latenightmoon767 I could not have make it more clear I was sarcastic

[@karenroque3583]

I recently experienced a glorious moment witnessing someone on Tumblr of all places praise Medrano’s bias (outside of maybe one example) towards writing couples in her works that are already in established relationships and how it makes their characters so much more delightful to watch because of it. And it was really refreshing to see because I had to trudge through some pretty weird takes like how Emily (a character that shows up for a total of 2 eps and was just Charlie but angel) had more romantic chemistry with the main character than with her actual girlfriend. Y’know, the girl who had a whole song about how she would do anything for the love of her life even if she doesn’t believe in herself. I really love Vaggie too, I hope we get more stories (and cute moments with Charlie) focused on her in season 2.

[@Novana-fv9dq]

I literally went back and watched the poison music video and counted how many times angel dust’s mask of “liking his abuse” shattered and I counted 11 in one music video

[@4dragons632]

Well Lily nailed absolutely everything. Perfect take after perfect take. I really like the show, but I agree with the flaws she did point out, and I hope that season 2 is good.

[@NathanDavis508]

My view is very simple, but for this type of show, if you finish having enjoyed it and had fun, it’s a good show. This was the most fucking raw fun I had with a show for a WHILE! A lot of the songs are in my playlist too. Hazbin is just… Hazbin, and that’s good

[@Klara_Gerelt-Od126]

Omg that was exactly my thought as well!! The show isn’t perfect for sure, but it was so fun and entertaining that I didn’t care about the any flaws of the show

[@youtube-kit9450]

Imo, the age of video essays definitely made people act like if a show isn't perfect, they need to make a 3 hour "teardown" of things that might be just minor issues at worst or don't focus on how something might be good with flaws. Old media really was lucky people weren't this obsessed with this nonsense. For me, the show was great. Great characters, great songs, decent story, but suffered from having 8 episodes instead of imo 12, where 4 could have let the plot breathe and have characters interact more. Some swearing was a bit eye-rolling for me. Vees were underutilized (but it's set up they're going to do big moves in season 2 so it's ok). Yeah, I have gripes and issues with the show, but it still has lots of great things that made me enojoy it, and I'd totes recommend it further. Now could I be miserable and just ruin my fun with it by trying to dissect every little thing? Sure, but why.

[@Alterego912]

I like the show. I’m also now pausing in the consideration of the incorporation of Voodoo for one of my characters, especially after the stuff about Alastor. Speaking of, apparently his deer features are a side effect of how he died. In Vivzie hell, sinner’s demon forms can reflect an eventful death. An old man was crushed by a piano in Helluva Boss, and appeared in Hell with piano keys for teeth. Alastor was shot by a deer hunter while burying the body of one of his victims , so… now he has deer features.

[@strahinjastankovic5486]

It feels like Hazbin Hotel is this generation's "Baby's First Fandom."

[@antimatterg]

TADC:

[@MysticDiamonds5566]

Yeah I can testify that Twitter has gotten dumber. Alastor is such a mixed bag to be honest. The reasons for Alastor being Alastor; from his aesthetic appearance, to the Voodoo, is itself lore based which unless is explained is most likely by now relegated to the crevasses of fanon wikis. All we know about Alastor in the show is... he's from the 1930s or so, he's a murderer and cannibal, does voodoo magic yikes 😬; there's a mystery to how he became powerful; why is a 1930s American given a Greek name; he was absent for seven years, we find out he's mysteriously subservient to someone or something. People are mystery mongering that he knows Lilith and is under her heel 👠. As of now that Alastor × Lilith theory doesn't make sense. I'm definitely enjoying the show and I enjoy Alastor overall and I enjoy him as a character all by himself without people projecting onto him. Im looking forward to seeing how season 2 comes, waiting and seeing what happens rather than crafting theories and possibly obsessing about them 🤣.

[@carnage0685]

Don’t forget the people who think his name/full name is Alastor Altruist LMFAO

[@galanga21890]

@@carnage0685 nearly gave me an aneurysm when i first saw that shit

[@Zephyr_Zeitgeist]

The Lillith-Alastor theories hinge on them both having been mysteriously gone for 7 years. That could end up being a coincidence, but this is a work of fiction. 'Coincidences' are rarely coincidences in fiction. /However/, I have a gut feeling that they are not directly connected. That there is at least one degree of separation btwn the two.

[@lunastar833]

Well I like lore, it is ultimately like a garnish it's nice to look at but I don't need it to enjoy my meal.

[@lesterwilliamsjr649]

Off Topic I know this doesn't directly relate to HH but this is somthing I want to talk about. We all seen clips of people/characters using the argument 'They have changed' and or 'I have changed'. The moment I hear someone say lines like this I stop listening to them because of the fact that some people/c who say these lines are delusional to how the world works. Some people/c don't understand is (1) Change isn't like a metamorphosis because someone can go back to their bad habits (2) Acknowledgement and change doesn't erase the damage done it just helps prevents more damage. (3) Everyone has negative traits that will be with them for a long period of time. (4) Change for some people can take the rest of there life. Life Lesson: Accept people for who they currently are, don't keep someone in your life because you think they'll get better unless it's your job to help people better there lives.

[@genola2441]

I agree with your comment wholeheartedly but I need to say this before someone else does Their*

[@lenaalt2387]

@@genola2441 i can't unseen it...

[@gene8447]

Y'know... I frequent a lot of channels about stuff like this. Yours has, by far, become my favorite. I'm genuinely excited when you show up in my feed. It's true that media literacy is down the drain, but its shouted by people who dont even know what it means. As I have to roll my eyes and walk right past videos that try and tear you specifically down for that exact reason. All because they're incapable of separating themselves, or their fiction, from reality. As a fellow former abuse victim who uses "problematic" themes as a method of healing, thank you for sticking around and doing what you do. Here's hoping people learn to grow up, because watching people pretend that toxicity is a good thing and not acknowledging it is painful. I know that angel dust falling apart, or Andy struggling to deal with his sister's abuse is bad. It's wrong. But I'm also capable of seeing it, feeling seen, and breathing out pure catharsis when they take some level of control. Then inhaling pure anxiety when some kids call it disgusting and shameful to enjoy like it's the only way one is allowed to think.

[@eeveeongirl]

My husband and I thoroughly enjoyed the first season and look forward to season 2. We agree that episode 4 is the best one and hope season 2 does more episodes like that. All the songs are amazing and we can't stop humming them. Finally, nifty is amazing and I hope she never changes

[@Lexyr_]

It’s interesting that both the fandom, and the…hatedom I guess would be the word for it, both tend to suffer from a refusal to look any further than skin deep when it comes to aspects of the show, Alastor’s voudou ties to the former, and Angel’s SA for the latter. Also, the Bonnie segment is easily one of my favorite comedic beats you’ve done. Very cute and silly!

[@ideapressproductions1864]

I love how bouncy Bonnie’s animation is in it, it’s very adorable 🥺🙏✨

[@seraphywang4638]

Honestly, as someone who enjoys Vivziepop’s works and is basically an outside observer to every drama that happens to leak over to youtube, the things that she is accused of is WILD and disgusting. Literally no wonder her most recent Helluva Boss video touched on those parasocial relationships. It seems like she gets flamed for even breathing wrong. Im just glad her work hasnt been too affected. Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss has some of the most fun Ive had with a series in a long time with each character being hilarious even if I dont enjoy them personally. I cant wait to see where season 2 takes us.

[@Firelava88.]

i just assumed the reason a bunch of the cast was lgbtq+ was cause Viv is bisexual herself and wanted to add lgbtq+ characters for rep and stuff and NOT cause she thinks gay ppl should be in hell 😭

[@Lily_Orchard]

Part of parasocial hatred is deliberately reading things as poorly as possible

[@Firelava88.]

@@Lily_Orchard yep 😔

[@harryvpn1462]

I think it is because gay people are meant to be in hell, the show is based on a (warped) version of the bible anyways

[@Alex-uv3td]

for real, i didn't even think about the fact that they were a lot of lgbtq+ people in the show before seing people complain about it. but if people really wanna justification, i made one up. hidden stat don't have to be hidden anymore if ur dead, hos going to judge u ? also no one even said they where no lgbtq+ people in heaven

[@mr.p215]

don't worry its called not being a nutcase that sees red flags everywhere that don't exist. Its a sign you are a normal person with actual problems in your life.

[@lizzienora678]

Lucifer has a keyblade. Lucifer uses a keyblade as a blade and the same way Sora uses magic.

[@Whitechapelfiend]

7:56 you overlooked that Alistar wants Charlie to become dependent on him so when she becomes Queen of Hell, he will take a role as her vizier and control the throne through her. He talks about it the seventh and eight episodes. The Radio Demon is playing the long game.

[@hewhomustnotbenamed5912]

I'm loving the nonstop digs at the US State Department XD

[@AspenBrightsoul]

Honestly I feel they needed better advertising. I shouldn't find out a show I have been waiting years to see has come out from a Lily video.

[@undyingUmbrage413]

what's saddening is that all the false allegations and made up issues are being spread around so much that the only actual issue has been completely overshadowed. i've heard no shortage of people talking about how angel dust's sexual assault is supposedly glorified, but i had no idea of the vodou thing until i was watching with my girlfriend and she pointed it out, and i had only seen you mentioning it after that. i didn't know the deer thing until now. then again, that might also be because i haven't been looking at any hazbin critical content, because it's always the same exhausting non-issues and i cannot be bothered to watch someone complain about pacing for the hundredth time. either way.

[@Crystal_Clearly]

Sorry to ask, but what is the “deer thing”?

[@undyingUmbrage413]

@@Crystal_Clearly It was in the video. Black slaves used to be referred to as bucks, and Alastor is half black creole. Most likely an unfortunate coincidence, but it's absolutely a valid concern and probably something Viv should address, if only to clarify that was not intended imagery.

[@LordDoom10]

I don't think Alastor is as well meaning as you think. He knew Lucifer was an absentee father and was trying to get under his skin (as Lucifer is the only one who can usurp his role at the Hotel). It is no different than when Vox goes on air to insult Alastor upon learning of his return. His ego is just as fragile as Vox's, he just handles himself a bit better when it breaks. And Alastor dismissing his "friend" was probably in response to Husker bring up his leash. Mimzy was exploiting him, but he also didn't want to show Husker how he had gotten under his skin. So he plays it off as upholding the rules of the Hotel (and also uphold good relations with Charlie).

[@basicwitch6562]

The haitian voodoo thing-- and the slavery stereotype thing involving bucks and does-- are both things that did not immediately jump out at me, and now I feel like an idiot for not noticing that. I'm so eurocentric that I thought the antlers were supposed to be an invocation of pagan magic because of Cernunnos. Lily never ceased to crack my brain open and present groundbreaking information to me for further research. Thank you, Lily, for reminding me that as a white liberal, I constantly need to learn and can never know everything.

[@flowerism9898]

The deer thing is coincidence, he was shot in a deer hunting ground with a rifle which is how he ended up dying. Also, Alastor is mixed race creole. Your first theory is likely correct with the antlers being tied to the whole occult cryptid aesthetic he's got going on. And much less likely but my personal theory is that it probably has something to do with his time in life being spent as a serial killer, hunting his victims for sport and all that. Like a cruel role reversal, and exactly the type of thing you'd expect to see as a punishment in hell. I do hope they change Alastors "portrayal" of vodou, honestly. It has very little to do with anything significant about him, other than originally being from Louisiana. I think with a little elbow grease and ingenuity they might just be able to change it to something actually unique and meaningful to his character, not drawing off of old stereotypes of an already misrepresented faith. What I do like is the contrasting color scheme the green has with him, it really makes him stand out and give intrigue to the character so I hope they keep that aspect of whatever they're trying to portray here, scrap the rest, and come up with something that isn't the cultural equivalent of dancing in a minefield.

[@sharonoddlyenough]

​@@flowerism9898oh, it would be great if they could lean Alistor towards a Lovecraftian aesthetic. The tentacles are right there!

[@forestgrump4723]

I had a friend get pissy and stop talking to me because she thinks the show betrayed the VAs from the pilot by recasting and I tried to explain that the show wouldn’t be having this wide release if they hadn’t. You have to make some creative choices you don’t want to when you decide to turn your story into a product. She’s just absolutely convinced you can make things work without sacrificing any control if you believe hard enough. And me explaining that the industry just doesn’t work that way is dismissive. So… that was fun.

[@AviciPerry]

Lmao, what? insane behavior

[@forestgrump4723]

@@AviciPerry Yea…. Things happen I guess lol

[@skeletonsinscarves3965]

Bro it happens sometimes things don't work out and that's okay, it doesn't mean they'll never use those voices somewhere else Edit: I completely forgot about the musical parts cuz I kinda tune out the music to concentrate on the words, I was thinking she could have had the va and the singer but then I remembered wait that costs more money...

[@Lily_Orchard]

No actually your friend is right. The cast from the pilot have said that the reason they were recast is because Medrano wanted a Broadway cast. And I think that's a fair criticism to make. I've criticized other creators for making casting decisions based on their fantasies if being a musical producer.

[@forestgrump4723]

@@Lily_Orchard I mean, as the creator that is her call to make though and it’s hard to fault her for it. She had a vision for her product. Additionally it’s not impossible that she said that to soften the blow of the studio wanting bigger names. I mean it’s hard to look at someone you care about and flat out say you’re not famous enough for this role. In a perfect world it would have been great to keep the same cast, but the creative industry is harsh. Sometimes you have to make decisions you don’t want to in order to have mass appeal. But you’re welcome to your opinion, I respect that not everyone has to agree about the decision to re-cast. To me it’s an unfortunate inevitability and I fully expected it the same way I expect anytime a cartoon gets a movie they’re gonna cast bigger names for the movie. Or if a movie gets a show, they’re going to cast smaller names for the show. It’s not uncommon and isn’t likely to change.

[@tifara718]

I love the show , the songs are on repeat. I glad it broke records, I’m glad it reached new groups of people who are in love with the show.

[@ultra824]

I had a friend get really upset at me for liking the show because of the drama around vivziepop but when I looked into it i found a callout post that was: dead links beef with a different person entirely that viv happens to work with sometimes (gooseworx i think?) hyperspecific grudges about alleged personal drama the exact lie about pedophilia you mentioned And an accusation of zoophilia, based on a single out of context drawing allegedly by her that could arguably be interpreted as a joke about implied zoophilia

[@Yellowguy0619]

and she's racist

[@vivianneclaire]

One issue with Alastor that I do feel is fair to criticize as well, going with the whole issue of Vivziepop using voodoo and its symbolism, is the fact that his demon form is akin to the more pop culture depictions of a certain malevolent, cannibalistic entity originating from Algonquian folklore. One that it is frowned on to even speak its name, what it is called, that it invites evil. Often even given a deer-like horned appearance in media. Being used, especially in horror, as a sort folkloric monster or even treated as a cryptid by many. First shown in Alastor's comic, but even making it into episodes of Hazbin Hotel, when Alastor starts transforming.

[@ThePotionMaster413]

I’ve seen so many people make comparisons to that creature and even speak its name and it just pisses me off that people see that as a “neat fact” and not “hold the fuck up, why did they do that”

[@moimoi-dl2st]

​@ThePotionMaster413 why is it that we shouldn't speak it's name ? Or why it's a bad thing to be inspired by it? I was aware that the way it was most commonly depicted in media wasn't how it originally was but not that speaking it's name was bad? ( I probably worded everything horribly, I'm sorry I'm both clinically stupid and English isn't my first language so I struggle a lot 💀)

[@ThePotionMaster413]

@@moimoi-dl2stfrom what i’ve read, saying its name invokes danger and is a very serious word for Algonquian people. It is a part of their closed practice, just like its fucked to use Haitian Veve’s willy nilly. Tl;dr, don’t mess around with someone else’s deity of evil and someone else’s culture. (lighthearted).

[@moimoi-dl2st]

@@ThePotionMaster413 thank you for the explanation

[@ThePotionMaster413]

@@moimoi-dl2styou’re welcome :-)

[@TheYtseMan]

I have no option but to pause the video and applaud the reading you did about the lore, the plot and the hardcore fans. Bravo sir.

[@inconsistizzy]

finally a video talking about the shows strengths, too. i am so tired of people who just immidiately fired a million critiques at the show before the first season was even out. let it BREATHE

[@infinessia4019]

Retracting old comment because I realized I completely missed the point as to WHY we shouldn’t have voodou in media (took me rewatching the video three times to get it but I got there.) Instead I’ll just say awesome video as always, thanks for educating my dumbass and it’s so nice to finally have a show where they just get to the point.

[@Charl_00tte]

@felisenpai9625 for some reason my previous comment of apology for tone and explanation did not tag you. Use this one to find it as a reference point please.

[@satanyourlord1134]

Pls explain it to me im dumb 😭

[@StripesChaosGremlin]

I'm not sure if I'm going to word this right but... people know you can write a setting that you don't support but are using as part of the setting to address that very thing? The whole, 'why are all the lgbt+ characters in hell thing' is just a little laughable to me for a few reasons. Given the biblical characters (Adam, Lucifer, etc) even with possible alterations to the biblical story, our main setting is still hell. Which from my understanding of the this version of heaven and hell, who is and isn't going to heaven seems to be determined by the big G himself as Adam and Sera sure as fuck have no idea what is the deciding factor/s are. BUT ALSO best snake boy getting redeem at least shows that sexuality isn't a factor (assuming the wiki is right in that he's bi shrug?). Also we get so little time in heaven to see if there are lgbt characters, (not sure what the verdict is with Emily)... it's just people not considering nuance as usual. Also someone commented somewhere asking why are there some characters that exist to just be hated and I was like 'just because there are nicer people in hell, doesn't mean there aren't people who are still genuine assholes as well.'

[@datoaster4991]

25:51 To quote TheeGrouse: "I dont missinform, I just Lie"

[@Cat_DeGaulle]

True

[@bradugar]

The Show RWBY really suffers not sure if it from fandom or RT but they introduce so many side characters & give them whole episodes of development meanwhile the main 4 to 8 characters haven't had proper character growth in like half a decade even in Volume 1 the spotlight was always stolen by people outside of the main protags

[@elainecrawford5585]

First time viewer! As a casual Hazbin Hotel fan who just enjoys stories, characters, and (especially) awesome animation, I love this analysis. Thank you so much. Best of all, because I watched Hazbin Hotel, KZbin sent me here, I found your channel, and now I can proceed to binge watch all of your videos essays. Love listening to you! A+! S-Tier! More please!

[@thielnineteen]

Finally! Someone gets what is going on under the surface with the whole "Poison" scene.

[@ayt3877]

I honestly wish I could've watched this show without the backlog of wiki knowledge I accumulated over the years (since it was the only content available and there was no indication of it ever going beyond the pilot). Instead of taking the story that was being given, I kept getting caught on years of expectations about characters and lore, which ended up with me frustrated. I do agree getting too entangled with Fandoms ruins the experience.

[@Rednetthall2]

See and when I was initially complaining about how fast fast the episode seemed was craving for more character interactions I did take a moment to think about how you talk about pacing isn't as bad as most people say and now upon watching this video I'm glad that you brought that up again. Sometimes got to remember that lore isn't story because story has a direct purpose.

[@GalacticGrapezz]

great video, the bonnie bit giggling though truly my favorite highlight

[@emargaux]

It is SO refreshing to see a show that doesn't have a half-baked season one simply by establishing the actually important things and moving on. At least most of the characters don't waste time moping and the plot is more tightknit that way.

[@WordFyle]

7:37 I’m pretty sure it’s alastor purely wanting to piss Lucifer off, he is bullshitting so hard

[@Lily_Orchard]

I like my explanation because it's funnier

[@jackboyeditor200]

Really good video and is nice to see the media literacy is good and alive. I do fall into the camp wishing there was more but you do make the good points about want for LORE. I guess thats a good side though that this is one of the first shows that has left me wanting more. I’ll die on the hill for my favourite snake boi and I wished we could’ve gotten a stand-alone ep to see more of his improvement but I feel this also comes from my love of my character

[@madelynchristie4762]

It’s always nice seeing your analyses. They help me validate my thoughts on the show and even bring more of an open mind to certain controversies that I originally didn’t think were problematic. Thank you Lily, truly. Like always

[@valeriaibarra4049]

"Only fans care about lore" is probably gonna be the most bitter pill to swallow for a lot of people. The explanation about lore reminded me of probably one of the authors who managed to write a ton of it to elevate his own stock and pretty much got away with it, Scott Snyder. His run on Batman really pushed the story of the character having a legendary meaning and ancient connection to justice, and darkness, and knights and destiny, all in a very eye-rolling way.

[@azolaun]

The pacing discourse section and the lore vs actual story debate section was really good. Really opened my eyes

[@The_Republic_of_Ireland]

This review was absolutely fantastic, I loved the first season and i can't wait for season 2. You got yourself a new sub, man

[@AsterSapphire777]

I was hesitant to give this show a shot but hearing your review made me wanna check out! 😊

[@knicknac04]

8:00 I don’t think that Alaster actually views Charlie as a sort of daughter, or even wants her to be one to him. He doesn’t want to be a paternal figure to her, he if did, we’d see it in other parts of the show where Lucifer isn’t around. I think Alaster caught onto Lucifer’s insecurity and since he obviously felt threatened by him (being the prince of hell and all) decided that it would be good to try and undermine him in anyway that he could to try and create a more equal playing field if they ever did get into a power battle.

[@selfloathinggameing]

I don’t get why Christians are so up in arms about Adam being terrible. Isn’t he like, the Original Sinner?

[@sunnyinthemachine8274]

Coming from a Christian background, the blame is usually placed on Eve

[@mr.p215]

I personally dislike him of how much of a wasted character he is, instead of a cool and interesting villain he is an asshole who swears like a kindergartner after learning his first bad words and then just dies.

[@obehiikhigbonoaremen1241]

​@@sunnyinthemachine8274Unfairly, I might add, Adam also ate the Apple.

[@Jazzisa311]

Because you aren't supposed to get into heaven if you're terrible. Sinners have to be fully redeemed in life in order to be able to go to Heaven. He sinned, yes, but repented and is supposed to be an angel now, aka a perfect being.

[@sofiantz2142]

but in the hazbin verse didn't only eve eat the apple and so was the first sinner?

[@dr.loboto1171]

I have never heard of you before, but I randomly got this video in my recommended ig just because I've been watching a lot of Hazbin Hotel stuff, and holy shit, you are saying fucking *everything* I've been thinking. Go off, sister!

[@johnvarner5536]

The biggest headache I’ve seen with people “critiquing” the show has been with the “well you have to know the full backstory of this two-scene bit character” that you’re talking about is Mimzy. People literally take her song bit as a fact and go “if you didn’t know Madrano’s full character history you won’t get her or see why she has this song” when The literal first word when her song is done is “Who?”

[@ZetaNiGHT]

I've heard a lot of folks discuss the pacing issues and had a BIT of beef with that myself (mostly I enjoyed the show and didn't care that much, just found it a bit distracting in episodes like 3), but I appreciate your perspective on why that's less of an issue (making effective use of their time etc), is not really a point I've seen brought up much. Is just a nice reminder that even things that seem like 'objective' flaws can still have more merit to them that folks may not have considered haha.

[@brucehalden6148]

Alastor's conflict with Lucifer, while admittedly seeming to come out of nowhere, does make sense with hindsight. Alastor states in different songs that he intends to take advantage of Charlie by planting himself as a guiding and wants to take over, at the very least, Hell. Lucifer would very clearly oppose him in both goals, in both being an actually caring father for Charlie and being the current ruler of hell. We can also assume that Alastor instigated the clash for his own amusement, as he very much enjoys toying with people of power and he clearly attacks Lucifer's insecurities during their song.

[@mr.p215]

it feels more like he was also responding to Lucifer's intentional and unintentional taunts, he mocks Alastor's decor of the hotel and also when he first came in completely ignored him to hug Charlie and Alastor being the big man in the room couldn't take being ignored.

[@OlieThePotato]

sir pentious is best boy no doubt

[@user-xs3wb6ec3s]

Excellent video especially the angle dust bit

[@elianes5505]

I loved those little bits of geopolitical commentary. Definitely subbed.

[@peachrossman1903]

Ive always been a sucker for media that, appropriately, discusses dark themes, especially when they bring humor into it. That combined with the awesome music and what i find to be quite an engaging plot means I love this show. I think this shows popularity however, while awesome, has brought attention to it from people who arent ready for this kind of thing. Like, you need to know your limits, and theres a reason why the angel dust episode had a trigger warning and 18+ rating. If thats too much for someone, cool, i entirely respect that, just skip the episode or dont watch the show. If you watch it anyway, dont blame the creator.

[@mckennafincher593]

I didn’t even pay attention to Alastair’s symbols while watching! You are completely right, stuff like that you should touch with a ten foot pole unless you did a metric fuckton of research on it or have a practitioner or two you can consult. Great video

[@starnerd2273]

Hey! I've been a fan of yalls content for quite some time. I actually started writing my own fanfic after reading yours, so I just wanted to thank ya for being awesome!

[@icapolicarpio1376]

i love how u respond to the discourse oh my godddddd everyone in the fandom needs to hear thius

[@kaykay8855]

Thank you for mentioning Twitter’s lack of literacy comprehension.

[@sash-a_drawing]

this entire video is just great, i wanted some parts to be longer but that's because i was a fan not hardcore but a fan and i never went into writing much so thanks for taking me out of my bubble, and I'm glad they never made it longer, I watched that abuse scene and myself had some flash backs, but that's great, it was delivered perfectly it was uncomfortable and i hated vale that's what the writing needed to do and that's what it DID that was perfect in my opinion, thanks for sharing that cut the crap get to the point, it has made me put some things together and writing make smore sense. also fr I just want to see angel get better I want him to realize that he wants to get better, and he sees hes in a crap situation so like i feel he's going to see a happy ending, i hope there is one for him, i want him to go to heaven and see his sister or at least get free from Val, unless the people in heaven are like the higher ups then just f ;-;

[@seanfox4121]

All the talk at the end about excessive lore and fleshing out every background character flashes me back to interactions I've had with star wars fans. It's just as bad there when people talk about the mandalorian and all the interconnected shows.

[@themechanic9974]

So happy this is finally released

[@ZetaNiGHT]

Also genuinely did not know voodou is like an actual religion that way, found the video very informative in that regard. I would like to give Vivzie and crew the benefit of the doubt about Alastor being a deer, though; I interpreted it as a means to give him thematic parallels to a wendigo, being as he's also a cannibal (this might also be a culture insensitivity issue from what I know on the topic, which granted isn't much). I want to say Alastor being a deer feels more like an unfortunate coincidence given all that, though ofc it doesnt excuse the wendigo comparison if that is indeed a sensitivity issue. FWIW I enjoy Alastor's character and aesthetic a lot but I'm also an ignorant christian-background white boy so. Slides in the whole salt shaker

[@monkeyfat61]

man this is why i love your content. you dont love/hate tangent on use but explain into it and when you do tangent your stop it and are like ahh sorry about that where was i😂 wish you and your work the best hun

[@Yesferatu_]

This is a really cool video! I didn't know about the vodou issue regarding Alistor, I just assumed it was random symbols she drew, I am glad to now have that knowledge. I did find it odd that he had deer antlers and I assumed since he's a cannibal it was wendigo imagery, mostly because of the imagery used in NBC's Hannibal, where another cannibal is seen with deer-like features. It's lovely to have another perception on this. Thank you for making this video!

[@knight-_-meh]

As someone who asked for somthing on hellva boss and got a nice short no this is fantastic so tyvm