Glass of Water - Character Potential Doesn't Excuse Lazy Writing

There's a bad habit of fandoms being expected to do the work of the writers who either couldn't be bothered exploring characters on their own or simply decided to leave blurbs on Twitter for clout and serotonin.
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00:00 - Preview
00:14 - Introduction
00:56 - Blurred Lines of Canon and Fanon
03:46 - Intent vs Execution
05:13 - Hunter's Lack of Ideas
07:18 - Luz's Character Derailment
10:44 - Hunter's Passivity
14:52 - Behind the Scenes Issues
17:14 - Obligatory Sylvanas Tangent
18:37 - Spite-Based Fandom
20:06 - Conclusion
#theowlhouse #hunter #danaterrace

[@libbyh1744]

"I will now stand here and imagine a story. Give us cash" really got my chuckling

[@Humaricslastcall]

Cheeky ZP reference... i think.

[@wyvernfabrikator1572]

One of my old high school teachers used to say something similar. He said, “If people tell you you have potential, take it as an insult. Because what it really means is ‘right now, you suck, but you could be better.’” Saying something has potential is a backhanded compliment at best.

[@disgustof-riley8338]

It feels kinda like... pity? It's complicated, but yeah

[@saladcaesar7716]

As an artist, I feel it.

[@Draiocht012]

Can't fully agree with this. On one hand context is important. Even if this were true most of the time if it's coming from a teacher, mentor, etc then you're already there to learn and grow in the first place so it's a proper compliment saying that you have the capacity go far in the given teachings. On top of that many of us are of the belief that you never stop learning and growing. I'd rather excel at something than have the potential to, sure, but I'd also rather have potential than have peaked.

[@BurningQuestion]

What the fuck kind of mindset is that? Potential means predisposition, a positive thing that could be made into something even better if nurtured. Just because it's not amazing now doesn't mean it sucks.

[@olagartixa1719]

But if someone tells me that I have the potential to improve, why would I feel offended by the idea that I can be better than I already am? What would REALLY offend me would be someone telling me that I'm a horrible artist incapable of improving. Furthermore, if when you hear "you have potential" you interpret "You suck" you only demonstrate that you are someone who is so easily offended that you interpret compliments as insults.

[@jeffreywarf]

Well considering the things my parents said I didn't realize were abuse until I was in therapy about a decade later I wouldn't put it past a teenager not to be able to identify it. If it's their norm and they're getting ONLY messages of "be grateful and obey or else you'll be a homeless orphan" it's very possible you'd just minimize whatever feelings you have over your abusive parent(s) things they say like i and my brothers did by telling ourselves the same things we kept being told. " My discontent is ungrateful. Others have it worse so I can't complain."

[@squeerrel-j]

Yeah, I always thought that "it's not that bad" and "it could be worse". And it would make sense for this character to not know better as he's completely isolated, has no friends and no internet access. Belos is his only point of reference.

[@Mortal2064]

Huh... should I... re-examine my relationship with my mom? ... I guess the answer is "it depends," isn't it?

[@bruxism666]

not to mention the fact that hunter was completely isolated from society and not able to TALK to people his age. kid mightve not even had a concept of what abuse was...

[@scp--297]

I kinda had the whiplash effect. As a child, I felt something was wrong and realized it was abuse. However, every time I pointed it out to adults or to my parents, I was either gaslight/ physical beat harder. So I kinda just accepts as the norm because "I'm wrong and it's my fault when bad things happen, it's deserved." Even when I got out of it and was told that my parents were abusive, I didn't accepts my parents were abusive until I saw a Daddy O Five video, had a break down as I was triggered and didn't know how to deal with that. So Hunter not knowing is entirely valid.😅

[@Sunderland3646]

Anyone else notice how Caleb gets this treatment but somehow more intense? How fanon Caleb has an entire established personality, relationships with Evelyn and Philip etc even though he never spoke a single word in the actual show?

[@bethbayless5652]

It drives me crazy! I don't know how people jumped to those conclusions about Caleb. We know his name, face, brother, and that he met someone who showed him the Boiling Isles. The rest is in the background in silent pictures with hokes in em and Belos's hallucinations of him silently staring.

[@cardamomodemassinha]

yeah, bro just apearred in the walls and in Belos "decaying" or whatever, whitout a single line,but he has a whole story outside the show. If I just watched it without see the fandom stuff, he would just be "that guy Belos murdered", but in the fandom theres a whole animation with him and Belos as kids and their dynamic

[@krutyshikarandashi6463]

this leading to the fandom trashing Watching And Dreaming for absence of Caleb and Evelyn. these two weren't even actual characters in the first place!

[@kmmk5022]

With what little context we have of Caleb, there is still room to question his morality and it’s open to many other interpretations of him, even one’s of him being more morally questionable

[@ThePrincessCH]

@@bethbayless5652 I think they came to those conclusions by using the behaviours of the previous Golden Guards, including Hunter, as a template for Caleb, since Belos told the Collector how much it hurt "every time he betrays [him]". Not to mention the images in the background of "Hollow Mind" and the revelation of Belos being a witch hunter.

[@elizabeths.3307]

You derisively pointing out how little work it would have taken to actually confirm a character as aro ace, and that they just don't want to bother is the real issue was very cathartic for me.

[@MCPhatman]

I liked Hunter in his introduction a bratty but confident kid on the outside. I wanted to see him act more like that...

[@thebeecoven664]

I think it could've been sm more interesting and a new fun direction to take; while I appreciate what we got, I would've loved to see a REAL hunter villian arc or just have him be a snarky asshole lmaoo

[@jaredtheastralartist2510]

Like Red Sun From Lego Monkey Kid

[@goldencyclone4984]

"Intent over execution" was absolutely the copium I drowned myself in to try and justify still enjoying RWBY the past two volumes. I'm thankful the stupid crap they pulled at the end of Volume 8 finally snapped me out of it and now I'm just prepped to see the dumpster fire.

[@mackenziewoloschuk7375]

I got snapped out of it with the volume where they meet back up with Ironwood and absolutely destroyed him as a character and ruined the entire damn thing cuz the writers wanted to do it all without putting in any actual effort and expected to get praise for it.

[@jonathanjuarez5544]

@@mackenziewoloschuk7375 The sad thing is they had a morally complex antagonist with a morally grey conflict handed to them on a silver platter but squandered it so that team RWBY would be in the right, it's just as bad as the way they squandered Adam's potential to be a morally complex antagonist to make him fodder for bumblebee, a ship that the writers still haven't fully committed to because they're worried about homophobes getting salty.

[@SuperPianogirl123]

I was emotionally checked out by Volume 5 because all the characters were just stupid for stupid sake. Even Volume 9 is still just bad.

[@lordfijor1386]

Lily Checklist -Steven Universe is bad Mention: Check -Justified Bitching about Sylvannas Butchering: Check -Being right on many points: Check

[@frick_____you]

I remember a scene where Luz mentions having a 'man on the inside' of the Emperor's Coven; and the joke is that it's just Hunter, who wants nothing to do with her. And I remember thinking "Did they just unintentionally make a joke about how useless Hunter is as a character?" at the time. Because if Hunter really was spying on the Emperor's Coven and spilling information to Luz; that would actually be a welcome bit of him doing anything.

[@unoriginal2552]

​@@mekiherring2088Season two episode sixteen.

[@nataliestafford1535]

Welcome to the problem with the Our Flag Means Death fandom. In the show, Izzy Hands is a violently abusive white man whose actions are blatantly racist, misogynistic and homophobic, and abuses an indigenous man to the point of causing him to constantly relapse into unhealthy coping mechanisms. So far in canon he's constantly having the piss taken out of him by other characters, and it's fun to watch, especially when he has to beg for his miserable life when the crew mutinies. But all the creator had to do was confirm that Izzy is in love with Blackbeard (read: has a creepy masochistic fetish for him) and all of a sudden it's "internalized homophobia uwu soft baby boi who needs a hug" and "you should die if you don't like him". He's 2022 Kylo Ren, basically. Nevermind that Blackbeard has a canon love interest who doesn't constantly treat him like shit, no, he'd be much better of with the man who tried to kill the only person who actually cared about him. Could Izzy turn out to be complex? Sure, but so far he isn't. And trying to expand on that potential has done nothing more than come across as abuse apologia. His stans are at best reading too deep into things and at worst actively malicious. Izzy doesn't need that potential explored. He's perfect as he is. Leave him alone.

[@sarahpfirrilikinsthe7th531]

Are there people in the fanbase who talk about Izzy like that? Maybe I just haven't checked up on the ofmd fandom in a while but I've personally never seen someone react to Izzy's character like that. Most of the stuff I would see at the time talking about Izzy's interest in Blackbeard was making fun of him for it. so I genuinely don't know what ur talking about.

[@autumn-vl5ez]

@@sarahpfirrilikinsthe7th531 oh no I've seen it. All the time, actually, especially on Twitter. It's so weird.

[@Kamechan98]

Yeah I’ve seen some of that stuff too. Personally, if they’re gonna write that into the story, I just prefer it if they openly write it as toxic and the climax of it it Ed cutting ties with him because he has realized how unhealthy their relationship is. But with all of the history of shows turning dark and angsty, my biggest fear with season 2 is that they will lean into abusive behavior and relationships, drag Stede and Ed getting back together for the whole season and just turn into another drama show with may too much angst and stuff. I have seen far too many fics where Stede returns with the crew to the Revenge and Ed just starts abusing him and treating him like shit for weeks/months and taking out all of his hurt feelings and insecurities on Stede. Which in the end makes Stede abandoning him at the dock look like small potatoes compared to everything Ed puts him and the rest of the crew through. And every time I come across fanfics like that, I end up thinking ‘Why the hell should Stede stay with him after this? No teary apologies or confessions of love are going to erase these part few weeks!’ Like, I get wanting to allow Ed to be angry about Stede’s actions and being allowed to feel hurt and upset about it and not just make them get back together without any conflict or earning back the trust they had, but dial it back a million, will you? This is a rom-com with gay pirates and this is the ‘misunderstanding’ part of the story, we should still want them to get together in the end, not for Stede to leave and join a support group for abuse survivors! I don’t want this to happen with season 2, but part of me is scared that they will. Disney made Reylo a thing, after all. David Jenkins, please, don’t let us down. This show is such a wonderful delight after so much angsty bullshit, please don’t change it.

[@jevil_owo]

I hate fanon Izzy with a passion, when I saw him in the show I immediately wanted him dead so seeing his uwufied ass all over ao3 and tumblr was a pain

[@jovindsouza3407]

I'm an Izzy fan myself and I agree with pretty much everything here. Izzy as he stands has A LOT of potential, but until we get season 2, we have nothing more than that potential. There is a LOT of work to be done with his character, but the best decision is probably to learn into him being a villain. Izzy was the villain of season 1, so unless David Jenkins decides to redeem him (which will take SO MUCH WORK and waste a lot of time that could be poured into better characters), he should stay as a villain. Or he could be written out of the damn show or killed off in the even of Stede and Ed reuniting. I like Izzy because of the potential of interesting headcanons and fanfics. I don't like him because he's a good person. He's not a good person, and he likely never will be. He's a vile, selfish and cantankerous bastard who needs to loosen up and fix his mistakes before karma shanks him.

[@chaoticevil2206]

10:27 yeah I hate the current obsession with trauma porn, it's just an illusion of depth without any of the character work. The writer doesnt have to make an overarching arc with a cohesive beginning, middle, and end anymore. They just make the character suffer (because "trauma builds character!") and suffer until you want it to finally *end* because you feel sorry for them; at that that point you want them to magically get better, it's wish fuffilment. It just feels like a character journey is no longet about storytelling, it's a parasocial relationship and nothing more.

[@-nn-3886]

Yeah, is something strange that happend latetly. They usually take less effort to make a character deep after just presenting the Idea of a Trauma, and that is taking to much spoot in many storytellings nowdays. I don't think it's an inherently bad thing, however we are losing context and arcs that are necessary for the plot or the character himself. Is complicated think in characters with sidelines journeys in animation that have a good and depth written personality (is not impossible, I can think in Catra from Shera) but now they seems like exceptions more than the standard. Is it that our bare minimum is lower or do we just comfort with less, afraid of seeing that "potential" ruined? I dont know, I am just starting to be exhausted to only complain about the Idea of the "Trauma makes good characters", is not a "Free get out of jail" card.

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

It is especially apparent with Invincible show, where they turned MC from capable but someone who can go over his head and be beaten by someone really capable in the first place into super wimp who always spills blood from any opportunity, because I guess MC surviving due to own agency is Mary Sue instead plot needs to give them trauma so we get clicks. It is especially bad, because Omni-man fight suppose to be the big shift and first time Mark felt weak, instead it is unoriginal "Oh, he sucks again, what a surprise". They even somehow managed to make Nolan less complex and more inclined to kill Mark than in the book.

[@nicolas._.2294]

​@@KakiT1that what I am doing and trying to do. I am rn trying to write a season of a show taht alr existed but get canceled😅

[@metroidnerd9001]

This connects to one of the biggest problems I have with fandom culture. In a lot of cases, fans will get super attached to an idea or character (Hunter in this case) early on, but they get so attached that they get a "can do no wrong" attitude about it. This leads to a lot of blind praise for things that don't deserve it because people just assume it's good because it has "the thing" in it without critically thinking about the actual thing they just saw. I see this a lot with backstory and lore in shows like The Owl House and especially Amphibia. My prime example is the Amphibia episode "The Core and the King. Even before the episode came out, I knew the fandom would lose their minds about it because it's "the villain backstory episode," but when it did come out, it was honestly kind of a bad episode. It was only 11 minutes long, and it spent almost all of it on the lore and backstory while being devoid of good characters or comedy. Despite this, the fandom only saw "the things" they wanted in the episode and showered it with endless praise.

[@Lily_Orchard]

I've criticized that for a long time. Fandom treats the mere presence of tropes as a good thing, regardless of how they're used.

[@metroidnerd9001]

@@Lily_Orchard Yeah, I think your attitude towards stuff like that is one of the reasons I keep watching your content. It has definitely helped me look at media more critically.

[@storymaster164]

@@metroidnerd9001 seconded

[@JaneDoeValentine]

The section about fanon vs canon really struck me cause I'm a huge Monster High fan. In Gen1, there were a couple popular headcannons in the fandom that Clawdeen Wolf was gay and Lagoona Blue is Aboriginal-Coded. Lagoona was in fact not coded at all. She was the stereotypical Aussie surfer but there was a plotline of her being a sea monster and some fresh water monsters were racist about it. That's it. It's not Aboriginal-Coding its just the same shitty "racism metaphor applied to monsters" trope. And with Clawdeen, she only ever disliked the idea of dating boys because her friend tried forcing her to do it. In the same movie, she ends up crushing on some random guy. But the fandom went nuts with these two headcanons and when the creator said they liked the idea of Clawdeen being gay, everyone took it as canon. So when the reboot came out, there was a backlash for making Clawdeen straight and Lagoona Latina instead of Aboriginal, when those two ideas were never canon in the first place. Never mind that they made another character nonbinary and included a Latina character in the main cast, nooooo, that doesn't matter because their fav wasn't gay. And it's so annoying cause its just the stupid "Dumbledore is gay" shit all over again except this time its the fandom making all the claims while the creator simply liked the concept.

[@untitled-gv3qp]

I'm not gonna lie, I fell into the fandom thing of thinking Clawdeen was gay. I didn't know the fanon thing about Lagoona though.

[@JaneDoeValentine]

@@untitled-gv3qp yeah I fell for it too cause everyone legit treated it as canon but when I eventually finished all the webisodes and movies, I was so confused. I looked it up and was severely disappointed

[@baydiac]

I've seen people on twitter get mad because they were convinced G1 Lagoona was black. Because she had curly hair? Each passing day I grow more concerned that people don't go outside. This is like when someone was called racist for coloring lighter-skinned palms on black people. (obligatory disclaimer that I'm both caribbean hispanic and happen to not like the direction G3 Lagoona went in, but that doesn't mean I don't know a lot of G1 stans just make shit up sometimes)

[@untitled-gv3qp]

@@JaneDoeValentine I think the creators did try to put some lgbt rep in the doll lines but they weren't allowed to do too much. I heard somewhere that the antagonist for the valentine's day movie they did had something like that in a diary that some of the dolls come with, but it wasn't outright stated and the doll was hard to get.

[@JaneDoeValentine]

@@untitled-gv3qp yeah he was supposed to be gay which would explain his twisted idea of romance and he’d be redemptive with a boyfriend. It sucks it didn’t make the cut tho

[@bunnylapin]

this video honestly made me realise why ive felt so disappointed with hunter’s characterisation recently. it feels like his fandom popularity is just riding on him getting traumatised over and over again, without his character making any actual progress. which is fairly disappointing as someone who really likes the character and especially enjoyed his earlier characterisation, wherein he was allowed to be goofy and snarky, rather than having trauma be his only defining character trait.

[@kmmk5022]

km mk Let's not forget because of the oober amount of screentime he takes over, this made other character's development suffer as well who were already established within season 1. Concepts from season 1 were literally left behind to collect the dust made by how much time was spent of Hunter. We got little to no acknowledgement on things like Amity and Willow getting on better terms, Boscha and Willow and Amity's conflict, the Bat Queen's past, Caleb and Evelyn. Also the ship of Huntlow used to project Caleb and Evelyn, they could've just simply just used Lumity, an already established ship. It would work just as well, if not better. Plus, it could add a whole new layer to the Lumity ship Willow, THE VICTIM suffered from being one of the characters who got the short end of the stick being downsized to just being a mere plot device to develop Hunter and Amity. Gus suffered from the same fate as well Plus, Boscha was probably in just to make it seem like Hunter and Amity aren't bad people and try to erase their wrongdoings by having an irredeemed character to hate on instead. I literally thought they were gonna do something with Boscha's character in season 2 and better flesh her out but that didn't happen until the second to last episode of the entire series. They shouldn't estalbished Boscha's role within season 3, WITHIN SEASON 2, instead of focusing so much on Hunter. Episodes like Escaping Expulsion, Any Sport In a Storm, Labyrinth Runners, and the last two episodes of season 2 would've been great episodes to establish it. If anything, I'd much rather want a Boscha redemption rather than a Hunter one Plus the established friend circle of Luz, Amity, Gus and Willow got derailed because of how Hunter was taking Luz's place within the Luz, Willow and Gus trio. It ruined and derailed the possible development Luz, Gus and Willow could've had to build a strong friendship. Hunter had the big brother bond with Gus that Luz could've had with Gus

[@theotherwayaround621]

@@kmmk5022 I feel like hunter took luz's place in the hexsquad trio and for me it sucks because it doesn't feel like he earned it

[@kmmk5022]

@@theotherwayaround621 Yeah and it took away any chance of Luz, Willow and Gus having a strong bond with each other. I mean, they’re Luz’s first friends. I was expecting a meaningful, beautiful and impactful arc about it, Hunter’s got the friendship development with Gus and Willow that Luz should’ve gotten

[@ivy-fe3hv]

oh! there's a quote from one of my favourite childhood movies that i believe is quite fitting here! "potential: if you don't know you have it, you ain't got it."

[@zerozeroren]

My problem with Hunter is that 90% of the time stuff happens*to* him, instead of him making stuff happen. Even when he does things and makes decisions, it's usually reactive to someone else's actions. This does not go well with the show treating him as basically a second (new?) protagonist, because it feels like he's being dragged along with the plot. A very artificial feeling, to me at least idk. Isn't that the true definition of a Mary Sue, where the world bends to accommodate the character? (However kudos to his voice actor, they put so much raw emotion into Hunter that I end up feeling for him despite the poor storytelling)

[@kmmk5022]

Plus, the Hexsquad was fine the way it was with Luz, Amity, Willow and Gus. It was perfectly fine. They didn’t need to add Hunter

[@ThePrincessCH]

​​@@kmmk5022 I thought they added Hunter after Dana found out that they were cutting the series short.

[@kmmk5022]

@@ThePrincessCH no that’s the Collector

[@ThePrincessCH]

@@kmmk5022 The cuts were announced in May 2021 and the second season premiered in June 2021.

[@kmmk5022]

@@ThePrincessCH you don’t know that

[@alulim1338]

I can almost relate to the passivity you described with Hunter. There are times where there's so much input coming from so many different places which I feel so many conflicting feelings about, that doing nothing is the only option I have that doesn't involve mind-breaking panic. Of course, the show didn't go that route either, so it's ultimately just more wasted potential.

[@veyu7070]

Well, in the show it kind of went like that, Hunter was exposed to a lot od different influences and seemed really conflicted about it at times. Although, the writers didn't elaborate on that, they weren't straightforward with it but I think it might have been their intent

[@Estarile]

I must say on intent vs execution; It does matter. But so you can decide to smack the writer with a rolled up newspaper or a brick.

[@foafy7]

Potential doesn’t matter if you never care enough to expand on it.

[@Rhaynebow]

I’m coming back to this video after Dana and the crew had a livestream where she announced her HEAD CANON of Huntlow’s orientations being Bi and Pan and fans are already showering the show with even more praise. They literally did the whole “I will now imagine a story, give us cash” except instead of cash it was hearts and other validation. Worse yet, the crew was like, actively waiting for the hearts to roll in. They’re so desperate for brownie points that they even used the creator’s fan theories from her own damn show for rep points. And it happened on another freaking live stream with one of the VAs, so anyone not neck deep in the fandom would have known.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

This was one of your best videos of all time. It articulated a growing problem in fandom culture so well. Potential has become the new hook to keep fandoms addicted even if the story does absolutely nothing with it. I feel like hearing that cleared a giant brain fog I had.

[@gizoginjr]

It's so frustrating watching Luz have to learn the same lesson over and over and over again. I know that's not the point of this specific video, but ugh. Season 3 has all of three episodes and we're now done with two of them with barely anything having happened.

[@untitled-gv3qp]

For me, it just bothers me that the Belos thing is what would supposedly make Luz so angsty when the other stuff she's been through and fought through was more traumatic than unintentionally helping some old dude before realizing they're a bad person. She was used in a hostage situation that nearly got her mentor murdered and that didn't stop her. She even befriended the person who dangled her over a pit of sharp rocks, eventually. But learning that the big bad manipulated her makes her spiral? Like, I understand the guy's like h1tler but her contribution to the problem didn't really matter that much in any real way. He would've just gotten someone else to get the collector and he could've just looked closely at someone doing light magic to get the glyph. That situation would've been more anger inducing than anything but she took it as her being responsible for everything a genocidal maniac did because she saw someone being bullied and helped them out when she had no way of knowing what that person had done or would do.

[@maple7093]

Luz literally goes from "TALK TO THE GLYPH, BITCH" to being a generic sad 14 year old you'd see getting posted on r/im14andthisisdeep, until her palisman hatches and Dana decides "welp time to get my ass up and do something" and making Luz the kickass awesome girlfriend she was in Season 2A.

[@ThePrincessCH]

@@untitled-gv3qp Given that she initially believed that her arrival to the Boiling Isles was the result of some per-determined destiny and that Belos/Phillip actually told her that their meeting might have been destined, I find her reaction to be quite fitting because Belos/Phillip basically just gave her what she's craved since she came to the Isles and ended up twisting her greatest wish in the worst way possible.

[@untitled-gv3qp]

@@ThePrincessCH She got over that in the first season though. Her whole reason for wanting to find Phillip was just because she thought he could help her get home and because he was another human that got trapped in the boiling isles.

[@ThePrincessCH]

@@untitled-gv3qp But even after that she still treats the Isles like it's some sort of fantasy. She thought she could beat Basha at Grudgeby because she watched sport movies, she came up with a bunch of wild theories about the author of her favorite series and the only real ambition she's had since the first two seasons was to be a "witch", but she never considered anything beyond that.

[@Kamechan98]

Regarding the character derailment of Luz, I had a similar problem with TMNT 2012. Somewhere in after season 2 Leo became convinced that he needed to do everything solo, refusing to let his friends and brothers be part of, or even know, his plans and went off on his own because “it’s the only way”. And every single time he did this, he almost got himself or someone he loved killed, got lectured for being stupid and told to rely on his team and stop going solo already. Leo would apologize and feel bad, and then go right back to the same behavior a few episodes later. It got to the point that in the final season his brothers actively called him out for this and yet he still refused to listen. Which was extremely frustrating to see because it’s the same damn thing over and over again and the characters refuses to do anything new, which was equally frustrating as Leo became more and more of a main character- shoving the rest of the cast into the background, which meant other interesting ideas and plots the show had introduced earlier on the series never got resolved either because we need to focus on the Leonardo show now. So yeah, I feel your frustration Lily

[@nicolas._.2294]

Omg I love that show and I agree But I think it's and relatable to some people, becs there are some people that, they tried to change their behavior but they can't and get back to it and then they try again to change but still they can't and get back to it and so go on so in a way it's extremely relatable and I get it's annoying to see the same thing again but the truth it's that there are people like this in the world and if you are gonna live with them or be friends with them(like me) then you kinda need to accept it and ik it's so annoying but they aren't awful people after all

[@undyingUmbrage413]

Homestuck kinda has this issue with three characters in particular, Vriska, Eridan, and Gamzee. The latter two aren't nearly as bad, Eridan gets killed off relatively quickly without hogging much screen time and after Act 5 Gamzee only shows up to honk, do something nonsensical or extremely plot relevant, and then fuck off until the next act-act or intermission. Vriska is the main problem character for me. She shows up as an abuser with a lot of personal baggage who really needs therapy, she improves as a person after she dies and everyone leaves her behind except for her girlfriend... and then after the big retcon, she ends the story still being a bitch and abusing Tavros (which also hurts pre-retcon Tavros' character arc of standing up for himself and leaving his abuser.) So Vriska is weird in that she had potential, it was delivered on, and then completely undone in the final act-act(-act?). And also she hogs a lot of screen time and fandom attention despite that. Gamzee is also weird, mainly because he starts SO strong as a comic relief, has a genuinely interesting 'snap' moment, and then just proceeds to decline while not doing anything that interesting after a while. But this comment is already getting long and I could talk about Gamzee literally forever I think. Anyways, wow, I don't think I had a real point to this, this just got me thinking about homestuck for some reason and I wanted to rant into the void about it. Maybe because it's a MESS of bad writing decisions, and any discussion of bad writing is gonna make you think of it. It's an entertaining and enjoyable mess, but a huge mess nonetheless.

[@angelictrash]

Oh man I haven't stumbled upon someone voicing my thoughts about homestuck in years! I think the fandom was at it's strongest during 2012 when the whole Gamzee flipping out arc happened and I remember it being my favorite. After that the popularity of the whole comic began to slowly fade, lots of ppl loved the new characters, but I think a large majority (me included) were disappointed that the story just took a weird turn with putting the previous characters on the shelf, many which were never brought back properly (It was so confusing when to actually take a characters death seriously, never mourned nepeta properly because I was sure they'd bring her back... but nope). It truly is a mess of a story, not even one with a satisfying conclusion because the journey is so scrambled that I don't even know what's what. I think it was up until act 5 cascade that a large part of the fandom was on board, I can't remember if there was a hiatus after it, which would explain people's interest gradually fizzling out, but it still doesn't excuse the direction the story took. There are good parts after it! But I feel like that's the point when the story got super muddied. Gamzee was also one of my faves and as you said, it's sad how he became an increasingly passive part of the story.

[@untitled-gv3qp]

I think Andrew Hussie just has a weird thing for characters like Vriska. He made another comic after homestuck that was just Vriskas non-arc but worse somehow.

[@barrettbirks1058]

I've really hate how modern fandom has treated trauma. I get it, I used to think of stories where my favorite characters talk about their horrible past or something awful happens to them and it ends with them screaming and crying, it makes your brain go "aww poor baby." But there has to come a time where you realize it's more satisfying to watch a character overcome their trauma then experience more of it. Most people who say "can't wait to be traumatized!" Are either sickos who never grew out of their egdelord phase, or people who desperately therapy, REAL therapy, not the one you imagine the cartoon character going to. I'll pay for your first session if you want.

[@Storm-crow13]

Wasted potential is like crack for fandoms. It gives fans ideas and the chance to do something better than the original. Most of my experience with how it interacts with fandom is RWBY and Legend of Korra both are mediocre shows at best with tons of unexplored ideas and wasted potential. So there are plenty of fanfics for Rwby and Korra that are written as well or better than the originals.

[@user-kb1xk4lg7r]

If i had a nickel for every time the story in a show or movie grinds to a halt for an angsty white guy whining i would be rich enough to produce my own show

[@mackenziewoloschuk7375]

I'd be rich enough to own my own damn studio.

[@eve7675]

someone name all the examples they can think of i wanna see it visualised lol

[@mackenziewoloschuk7375]

@@eve7675 Star Wars sequels, Owl House, Legend of Korra, and Steven Universe Future. At least from what I can list off the top of my head lmao

[@melancholygirl7793]

Nico Di Angelo is lowkey like this, though I love him all the same

[@variedadesonline3926]

​@@mackenziewoloschuk7375 the Last airbender too

[@Hyperjade1]

"Spite-Based Fandom" Perfectly describes how I view Trixie from MLP. Her first episode was a complete joke and Magic Duel tried to simultaneously give her numerous reasons to be legitimately angry and to believe that power was the answer to resolving that, but also wanted her to be a petty bitch with an axe to grind against Twilight, the only pony who didn't make herself Trixie's problem in some way. Then No Second Prances came out. Considering the Aesop and the structure of the story, it was pretty clear that Twilight was supposed to be completely in the wrong in that episode, but they succumbed to Protagonist Centered Morality Disease halfway through writing it. Then, she was retconned to be closer in personality to what the writers probably intended her to be but weren't capable of because they wanted to have it both ways. Except that's just the charitable way to look at it because it was pretty clear that her new personality existed mostly to make Starlight look more reasonable in comparison, y'know, rather than just addressing Starlight's problems. Then she was permanently stapled to Starlight, emotionally abused by Starlight, etcetera. So to someone who doesn't take the show at face value, you're looking at a literal stage performer and storyteller telling a blatantly fictional story and ending up with her home destroyed, subject to a cartoonish amount of bullying and abuse with a dash of gaslighting, caught up by an artifact that warped her into a caricature of herself that was capable of hurting children, had society blatantly pretend that she was the monster it turned her into on her own, and then the next time she shows up, she doesn't know a spark of the magic she explicitly used to know and existed from then on to be Starlight's chew toy, as well as the narrative's, even in the few episodes where she's allowed to be something other than useless and problematic. That has novels worth of potential in it. One can call into question Twilight's motives in general considering that forgiveness mostly depends on who's superficially pleasant enough. It can inspire episodes that cover the kinds of serious topics that unlike nonsense like Rock Hoof in a Hard Place, actually can be handled in the space of a single episode, like 'Acknowledging that what someone has gone through is horrible and they're not going crazy for being angry and sad about it is the bare minimum', and 'don't confuse survival instincts and bad precedent with rudeness'. The mess of Trixie's character reaches into so many different corners of the main cast, the setting the story takes place in, and the wider world that you could practically deconstruct the entire story by taking what she's been through for what it actually looks to be, in spite of the narrative. There are literally dozens of interpretations of her character that carry weight given the inconsistencies surrounding her. And absolutely all of it exists exclusively in the minds of people who wanted this character to be something better. It would be rediculous to give the writers of Friendship is Magic credit for what we can create. It's worth criticising them for taking a character that fans liked the potential of and doing basically nothing of note with her. They didn't even bother doing something easy like have her interact positively with a character like Rainbow Dash in the background during some scene. Kind of like you with Sylvanas and Rey, the appropriate attitude to take with characters like Trixie is 'This character is mine now, let's create something fun and meaningful'. Don't give writers credit for something all of us, a bunch of extras doing writing prompts about things we think are neat, can do a thousand times better.

[@nicolas._.2294]

Eh yea that's true.....in a way I always think that not every caracter, story, episode CAN or needs to be perfect, there can be and some awful or garbage ones becs it's not always easy When it comes of having more main caracters/protagonist ofc

[@nicolas._.2294]

But I get what you mean

[@omasumi]

god, the thing with lilith really has been bothering me lately, i'm glad someone's said it. so many characters get confirmed as aromantic on twitter or whatever but then never get a single moment where it's ever relevant, mentioned, or even implied. i can think of a total of one aromantic character who's aromanticism is relevant to the plot, and they were the protagonist in a visual novel *about being aromantic*. hopefully one day i'll stumble upon some like. actual representation.

[@Cuchufreta]

You have just pointed out what I dislike about fandoms in general nowdays and why I get far away of fandoms in social media, one reason being the attitude of people, the other reason I am interested in going out and talk to real people and make real conections. I used to have a group of friends who wanted to created cartoons, they were kind of weebs and whenever I tried to help them to put their ideas in paper they start to dream about the fandom, the ship wars and which kind of stuff could be shown and with not so the inversionist would be happy and not censor shit. They were thinking about everything except the story and why they wanted it to exist, what was the core thing that motivates them beside "I want to make a cartoon that it is like and anime because anime uwu". And everytime I tried to point that out they get very defensive and angry. God now that I am writting and remembering all of this I can only feel a lot of cringe, happily they are not my friends anymore. (they were also kind of control freaks, I see fandoms tend to want to control shit, I am seeing a pattern here) I used to want to make an animated series, but since fandoms seems more like a pain in the ass that something else, I am kind of losing interest in that goal. I might still try it, or at least to make that story a comic, since I still want it to exist anyway, even with the annoying fandom culture or not.

[@christopherdunn8767]

See also: the problem with hanging lampshades. Making jokes about how much your writing sucks... doesn't make your writing suck less. If anything, it actually makes it worse, since you've just admitted that not only are you aware that you could do better, but also that you won't be bothering to.

[@eeg-rh7jv]

Exactly. Im tired of writers thinking its clever

[@herozen1338]

a wonderful video as usual lily, but just quickly wait, BLORBO IS AN ACTUAL WORD NOW? i... i thought it was just a thing tumblr made up

[@KakiT1]

That is how words are made. Ppl make them up

[@bethanysingsmrs849]

@@KakiT1 dang

[@mackenziewoloschuk7375]

Honestly? Same.

[@wisdommanari6701]

@@KakiT1 damn beat me to it

[@Draiocht012]

I find it utterly fascinating how close this is to a conversation I've had recently about how often people will praise what a show could/should have been rather than criticize what it is. Like whenever I say Legend of Korra doesn't deserve the praise it gets for gay rep most people respond with "they wanted to do more but weren't allowed to." And I have to break it to these people that (assuming they're even right in the first place) that isn't an excuse. It doesn't matter what was wanted it matters what's there.

[@elithesia781]

This whole video sums up perfectly how I feel about Serena in the Pokémon XY anime. I've never once denied that she always had the potential to be great, but the writers essentially shoved out a table scraps version of her that involved zero major developments or interactions with other important characters (Unless it was related to her crush on Ash, which was fucking stupid in the first place) and sandwiching her entire arc into the span of maybe 10 certain episodes while she otherwise just stands around and does pretty much fucking nothing. But the issue is that people went INSANE over this table scraps version of her and acted like she was the best thing to happen to the Pokémon anime since its inception, and those same people then look at me like I'm insane when I start brining up the criticisms involved with taking the main female character of a story and turning her into pretty much nothing more than a piss-poor attempt at a love interest (And I wish I was kidding when I said that her unrequited crush was literally turned into her main personality trait for the whole damn show) while only using the footnotes of the actual story arc they had in mind for her. Apologies for the tangent. I'm passionate about this.

[@cattiefogelsong6399]

Yeah. I really wanted more from Guss and Willow.

[@SoraKingdom3]

It's really REALLY disappointing how much none existent they are in season 2! All of this so Hunter could steal their screen time which... Why? They should be way more important than him. At least they got a little more to do in season 3 but still far from enough.

[@kmmk5022]

Hunter should’ve been cut from the plot all together

[@ThePrincessCH]

​@@kmmk5022 Hunter was kind of already established in the first season when he was introduced in the finale, I don't think they could have cut him anyway.

[@kmmk5022]

@@ThePrincessCH I mean they threw away the Bat Queens whistle which served little to no purpose, why not Hunter too?

[@ThePrincessCH]

@@kmmk5022 They did use the whistle in "Hunting Palisman", but either way its introduction was brief and casual. Hunter was introduced as though he was a pivotal character, so they couldn't really just set him aside.

[@Kaegrowl]

There's a thought that I'm rolling around in my head but having trouble articulating. If you look at the media that spawns more "engagement" online, it's almost certainly going to be the ones with weaker stories - because while creative people are going to create no matter what, a lot more will feel comfortable taking their colored pencils to a coloring book than a completed painting. Leaving "white space" in a story gives more people the room to fill it in themselves - which is a fine thing to enjoy in it's own right, sure. But it's not fair to point at a line drawing and compliment the colors based on the "implied" lighting, and it''s the same if a story creates a world or character with a lot of potential, but doesn't use any of it. I don't know if there's an easy way to distinguish between "coloring book" stories and uh, "completed" works, for lack of a better term? But that's the best way I can verbalize the thought I'm having.

[@requiem6465]

Loving a character based on their potential is basically damn near every supporting character/female in Shonen jump.

[@wisdommanari6701]

It hurts because it's true

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

Me hoping for Mineta to get more progression after Midnight fight and eating scraps. *I feel it.*

[@analyticHeart]

I really like this. Like a LOT. I disagree with you on a lot of things, but this video is incredible. It pointed out an aspect of fandom culture even I wasn't aware of, made me realize this exact thing has happened to me(i.e. liking a character based off of potential and running with just that), and showed an easily digestible example of this with hunter. I've always said that Hunter was a poorly written character, and it wasn't until this video that I realized why people like him in spite of that.

[@lbean9828]

This why I avoid fandoms like the plague. What I want and what fandoms want are completely antithetical. Which is why I've really grown to hate it when, to enjoy a show, you need to be chest deep in the fandom. I learned my lesson with Voltron: Legendary Defender and RWBY. Those shows are a pain in the ass to watch. I want to enjoy the show itself, not have to do hours of research afterwards.

[@navybluebunny603]

Whenever I try to tell friends I loath Hunter they jokingly tell me I hate abuse victims when in actuality it is because of this. Luz is my favourite character and I don’t appreciate how the fandom or even the show treats hunter like the protagonist at times.

[@kmmk5022]

Yeah like if you were to show a person who never watched the Owl House who the main protagonist is, showing pictures of Hunter and Luz, they’d probably think Hunter is the main character

[@nicolas._.2294]

​@@kmmk5022why tho? Why would they think hunter?

[@_Alexalra_]

The star trek element worked so well for luz's mom, it built her motivations, her past, her personality! And it resonated well in hunter too, he socialized with gus over it. Its one of the things that makes me think hunter is gonna get good? That maybe he'll have more of a back bone? I wont have too much hope tho. Post-SU animation really does rely on white boi angst, plus his character has ALREADY been fucked to mediocrity lmao

[@cattiefogelsong6399]

I am so burnt out of theory you tube…. It had its moment of being cool and then it took over and made the internet worse.

[@papkinn]

I'm happy we're finally calling out Owl House fandom for treating Lilith headcanon as "official confirmation" because i got attacked for pointing out it's not canon so many times i left the fandom. As aroace person myself i'm so tired with not only lack of any representation in mainstream media but also idea that out stories are so unworthy of telling that characters can be just confirmed to be aroace off screen on twitter or events and it's enough because all we are is "not dating". I know fellow aroaces are just desperate for any rep at this point so i can't blame them for clinging to anything but the amount of allosexual people who tried to convince me there's "so much representation" giving examples like Owl House i cannot excuse, you know there's no rep at all and at this point you're gaslighting us into thinking fanons counts when they never do. And before someone goes "oh it doesn't effect you" it's my identity being invalidated and belittled, yes it does effect me especially given i'm a woman. All i want is for my identity to get namedropped and talked about in the show, i want to see aroace person have aroace experience, i'm done with treading aroace identity as some "funny lore fact" about character to drop during event panel so writers can have extra queer character without effort of writing one. I'm tired and Lilith is not aroace in the slightest, i'm sorry fellow aroaces but we all know we deserve so much more than stereotypical molded crumbs from the bottom of Dashcon's ballpit. Oh i needed to rant about Lilith so much.

[@Honeybee-cr3fm]

I hear you, as an aromatic person I would love to see more actual representation in TV shows and movies. Up until watching this video, I also thought Lilith was aro/ace not because of my own conclusions, but because a couple of aro/ace people I follow on Instagram said it was canon and at the time I thought maybe they were thinking this just because she's pretty much the only character out of the main cast of the show who hasn't had any romantic history or talked about it (save for gus & king, but funny how we don't hear anything abt them), but I ultimately chose to just accept it partially because I was already out of the honeymoon phase with the show. To me LIlith only seems aro/ace because like you said, she's not dating anyone and the orientation means so much more than that

[@allieshyelf]

When I first heard that Lilith was aroace I thought “huh that’s kind random but, sure,” And now that I found out it was a va sharing their hc I’m just disappointed in the fandom.

[@nicolas._.2294]

I am srry to ask but I don't get what's the difference between an aro and a virgin normal person, can you explain?

[@nicolas._.2294]

​@@allieshyelfwait wasn't it confirmed? Oh lol

[@user-burner]

​@@nicolas._.2294aro people don't want to be in a romantic relationship, people who have not had sex may or may not want to pursue a sexual relationship. I think you might be confusing aro people with ace people, who are people who don't want to pursue a sexual relationship.

[@prowolf633]

Honestly I was hoping that Hunter was going to be killed by Belos once he outlived his usefulness and failed too many times

[@kmmk5022]

I really wanted him to a tragic villain, finding out the truth only to perish at the end

[@cidunate]

I do see your points, and it makes a lot of sense. I do love how your video's are very straight forward and you are honest with us, not caring if people agree, telling us what you see and not caring how it might offend. i rather take an ugly truth then a pretty lie and it always gives me food for thought. For some of us that are interested in good writing, I'm curious about what stories you would say are good examples of people going through trauma in storytelling.

[@briddishlove]

I suspect that many "good" examples would come with big caveats because media is hard. I'm trying to think of some books I've enjoyed that do this. One that comes to mind as far as portraying the different ways trauma can impact people is Fleabag. I don't think it's a great example in demonstrating how someone might move THROUGH it, tho. I can't remember if it's subtle or just not actually addressed. My impression as a person with trauma is: the trauma ingrained a few different ways of approaching the world and thinking about things into a part of me that's deeper than conscious thought. The trauma response literally happens faster than I can think, which is why I end up doing things I later regret. Therapy is one way to help me 1. Slowly unlearn the things the trauma "taught" me and 2. Do better or less-bad things when I feel triggered or disregulated (AKA coping or distress tolerance) until I can think clearly again. And also 3. Learning to give myself kindness and understanding. It is very hard to recognize the trauma when it pops up in my life because I have to make something unconscious, conscious. It takes cognitive effort, and sustaining it requires having enough safe people and general stability in my life. In a lot of stories I think they make the "disproving the trauma rule" kinda easy? Like, "oh, this character with trust issues only needed someone to demonstrate trustworthiness one time, and now everything is fine forever!" I think that can work when the character experiences a single traumatizing event and was otherwise doing pretty okay up to that point and had a good support system. Honestly, a piece of media handling trauma well may be a combo of 1. Basic understanding of how trauma works and 2. Knowing how to do a good character arc. And most shows ice seen only do one of those things, and often not consistently. One example from a story I like and haven't evaluated critically yet is the main character in Naomi novik's Scholomance series. (No spoilers!) She doesn't immediately drop her "issues" when her circumstances start to change for the better and disprove the thing she thought was true about herself/the world. It takes time, and she still falls back into that rule from time to time.

[@pluv1e]

This is a serious wake up call for a character that I've had for a while and am going to implement into a d&d campaign who is absolutely a writer baby of mine. They are so close to Hunter in a lot of ways that it was uncanny watching scenes between Hunter and Belos because it was so close to the character dynamic I had constructed. I have a while to retool the character though so I'll definitely start work on that.

[@scarletpetal.]

same! I have my own story and he isn't the main character, more of an antagonist- I'm still a little lost on where to go but best wishes for yours! :D

[@gh0styfr13nd]

I’m a hunter fan I saw the tumblr replies I dont wanna be a Hunter fan anymore. I like him as an idea and he was executed not great. But I do think that there is potential. It just sucks that Dana didn’t use it. Regardless. Hunter fans need to calm down. Hunter is not the fucking messiah. Chill out yall.

[@ellielovegood6307]

Yeah as a hunter enjoyer Hunter Stan’s are so annoying

[@soraingaegis3086]

Or equivalently: ambition means nothing without execution. You don't get points in Tony Hawk's Pro Skater when you go for a dangerous trick and mess up: you fall on your ass and look like a dipshit. Same principle here.

[@whye4395]

Being weirdly into startrek isn't a personality? I must be really bland then

[@JaneDoeValentine]

|t's not, its a hobby or at most, a single trait of a personality. But a character needs more than that. I'm sure you aren't JUST a trekkie. You have other motivations, thought processes, flaws, and traits aside from Star Trek. But it can influence how you behave as a fan, like being weirdly into it. The problem is that Dana is just slapping the barebone traits on Hunter and not developing them.

[@draglitch9063]

I really wish the whole 'grimwalker' thing was explored better because what the hell is a grimwalker??? We get a few snapshots of belos 'growing' them, but thats it. How do they grow? How long does it take? Do they start off as a literal baby that you have to raise? Do they have false memories if they start at a different age, or do you just tell them they have amnesia? Why does Hunter never question anyone about these things??? Why doesn't he go 'So THATS why i have no childhood memories!' or 'Wait, does that mean my memories are fake? When do my memories begin and the fake ones end?'. If its fake memories, why aren't they phillips memories? It's so gosh darn frustrating because I'm genuinely interested. Willow responded to the reveal as if grimwalkers were a commonly understood phenomenon but just... never elaborated. Also that random hook up at the end with Willow was irritating. This man does not need a relationship he needs therapy.

[@draglitch9063]

@@sonoio869 I can understand no one else questioning it, at least out loud, just because.... if the scary emperor says that someone is related to them, you do not question the scary emperor, lest you be Slaughtered. Like, at least the head of the abomination coven was aware that something was going on with the golden guards since I'm pretty sure he was good friends with the previous one and on some level knows that belos killed and then replaced him, but he's not about to like. confront belos about it. fastest way to get petrified

[@LunaP1]

There was too much meandering for Luz's and Hunter's character developments, but I still liked watching regardless thanks to the other main characters (including Luz's mom) and their reactions to everything going on with them on a personal level.

[@Samata94]

My wake up call to "passive characters are actually boring and shit" was this book about a young girl who set out to work as a maid in the capital of Sweden, set in 1937. The story had this potential of going anywhere as we find out that the doctor she works for is a nazi. I thought "damn, what angle will they take in this story, will she reluctantly work for him? quit and find her luck elsewhere considering she is a gifted cook? or even more bold, she gets radicalized and the readers are forced to see this naive but nice girl degrade into a despicable hateful person?" The answer was: nothing came of it. She got pregnant for sleeping once with her boyfriend and fired, and that's the theme of the story. She never made a decision, she was just forced out of any situation. Same as Hunter. And as someone that likes writing, I understand, your characters making stupid decisions and getting in trouble feels bad, but that always beats "bad things happen to your characters out of happenstance and through no fault of the character" Hunter "only" followed order, we got an entire episode dedicated to showing us how he had actually zero pull with the coven heads so his actions never lead to serious consequences. Hunter gets a social network, not out of rebellion but because Darius gave him a penstagram account. Hunter gets threatened with violence with zero provocation (note, it would be equally fucked up for Hunter to get threatened with violence regardless of anything Hunter did, like having a tantrum and destroying things. The point is that things just happen to Hunter, not with him). Hunter doesn't even leave Belos of his own volition as he was branded a traitor, nor does Hunter try to do something stupid like going back to Belos begging for forgiveness. But people LIKE these characters, people that do nothing, just endlessly suffer as the story drags them to the finish line. These stories only inflict me with pure nihilism, because nothing matters, they made no errors, nor anything heroic. Just fluttered through the wind like a leaf on the autumn winds, sure it's pretty but it's impossible to get invested. But make that leaf blond and everyone goes crazy.

[@blockEdragon]

Maybe the appeal for some is the fantasy of having your life get better without having to work for it. Kinda like how poorly written chosen one stories are power fantasies that just hand a character power and influence for free, this fantasy hands an unhappy character all the solutions without them having to work for it.

[@partygamingz3332]

But hunter did rebelled? He wasn't just given a penstagram acc, he legit assumed he was gonna be hurt and punished by belos and lose his cape (the golden guard status and respect he worked so hard for) yet he did this cuz he put himself into the shoes of his new friends, and realised his childhood was viewed through rose tinted lense and was actually utterly fucked Hunter would prob leave belos if given the choice anyway at the end, since again the reason he stayed is due to the love he has for his "uncle" and the idea their cause was just, and that he was important to him. The moment that fantasy was shattered he would betray belos no matter what, which is why belos decides the kill him the moment he questioned a single thing For hunter getting threatened with violence with zero provocation...tbh I'm so confused by that part since often there is provocation though minor. Like mentioning wild magic and over assistance to help leads to belos lashing out a warning strike. Like hunter is an abuse victim that is literally disposable in belos eyes. So kinda confused on that tbh

[@partygamingz3332]

@@blockEdragon I'd say a lot of people like hunter due to relating to his struggles, especially if those people been in emotionally or physically abusive situations, or born into cults and thought their words are law. Or even if they can't relate they would still want this child to eventually realise the lie he's born into and hopefully leave said abusive environment even if it was all they knew and more sacrifices would need to be made if it meant they could be free and finally be a kid, and get a family that would love them and make them feel valued. Also doubt ur idea is true cuz like hunter still suffers even outside of belos control considering his entire identity was tied to his abuser, having to be on the run and go homeless with no safety net. Not to mention flapjack....

[@helios485]

Y’Know, videos like these ones right here kinda make me glad that I am doing better as an artist and as a writer, especially considering my editor (who is a dear friend of mine) also watches your vids and has learned a great deal on how to write stories and characters (and by that extension, avoid doing the wrong things that people working in the animation industry are doing right now), and a lot of what I’ve worked on as of lately has been thanks to him and you. That said, I for one understand where you are coming from. Especially since I am currently writing a webcomic series for some of my OC’s (or rather one webcomic series for each of my OC’s). All in all, great stuff as always.

[@wickeddisney55]

2:23-2:30 Omfg I knew Lilith was bad but didn't realize it was that bad, like at if it came from Dana it would've been Word of God representation (not good representation but still trusted representation). Now I'm even more mad than I was before, like the Owl House KNOWS how to do good representation they HAVE ALREADY DONE IT WITH OTHER IDENTIES WHY CAN'T THEY DO IT WITH A-SPEC IDENTITIES?! 14:52-15:18 LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK! Like the writers had plenty of time they CHOSE to waste it on waiting around and waffling & even if they did have to cut content why didn't they cut all the waiting around? I feel like I'm watching 2 completely different shows when I try to watch The Owl House like it has so much potential, but it feels like after season 2b they threw it all away. It makes me wonder how much of the earlier good stuff was even Dana herself & how much of it was the other writers? 20:06-20:13 This line (well the whole video but this line in particular) actually made me think of a character that I thoroughly enjoyed as a kid & still do Lauren Shiba from Power Rangers Samurai like objectively this character does very little in the actual story besides show up, look cool, take over the team, fail at the 1 job she trained for (still mad about that one), give the team back to her little brother, make a disk that helps save the day, and exit stage right never to be seen again. She only appears in about 4.5 episodes total but somehow a LOT of people (including myself) love her to pieces & even go as far as to say she was the greatest thing in the whole show. I think it came down to 3 main reasons 1. Kimberly Crossman (actress who played Lauren) added a level of charm that was so desperately needed, 2. A lot of young girls wanted to see a girl red ranger (that wasn't evil *glares at SPD*) for a very long time & 3. The potential/sad undertone of the character's backstory made her seem more interesting than she really was. So, I guess you could say she was the Hunter of that show (only WAY less egregious).

[@Oathkeeper156]

'it came from Lilith's voice actor as a headcanon' I'm going to fucking die.

[@user-zz7cy1gc6v]

to be honest luz in her emo fase during seasons 2b and 3 is one of the things i thought might be interesting but ended up being um, very meh.. like luz isnt vibing with her own characterization, it feels kinda forsed or maybe to rapid idk like i dont want to undermine her struggle but its just presented in such a way that kinda over dramatizes it(?) like her issues are medium level but they kinda made to be seen as almost evangelion level anime tragedy.. and i kinda liked old luz more because this luz feels less luz and more "just another suffering teen" it kinda hides her luzness..

[@kmmk5022]

Let's not forget because of the oober amount of screentime he takes over, this made other character's development suffer as well who were already established within season 1. Concepts from season 1 were literally left behind to collect the dust made by how much time was spent of Hunter. We got little to no acknowledgement on things like Amity and Willow getting on better terms, Boscha and Willow and Amity's conflict, the Bat Queen's past, Caleb and Evelyn. Also the ship of Huntlow used to project Caleb and Evelyn, they could've just simply just used Lumity, an already established ship. It would work just as well, if not better. Plus, it could add a whole new layer to the Lumity ship Willow, THE VICTIM suffered from being one of the characters who got the short end of the stick being downsized to just being a mere plot device to develop Hunter and Amity. Gus suffered from the same fate as well Plus, Boscha was probably in just to make it seem like Hunter and Amity aren't bad people and try to erase their wrongdoings by having an irredeemed character to hate on instead. I literally thought they were gonna do something with Boscha's character in season 2 and better flesh her out but that didn't happen until the second to last episode of the entire series. They should’ve established Boscha's role within season 3, WITHIN SEASON 2, instead of focusing so much on Hunter. Episodes like Escaping Expulsion, Any Sport In a Storm, Labyrinth Runners, and the last two episodes of season 2 would've been great episodes to establish it. If anything, I'd much rather want a Boscha redemption rather than a Hunter one Plus the established friend circle of Luz, Amity, Gus and Willow got derailed because of how Hunter was taking Luz's place within the Luz, Willow and Gus trio. It ruined and derailed the possible development Luz, Gus and Willow could've had to build a strong friendship. Hunter had the big brother bond with Gus that Luz could've had with Gus The show could of delved into plots that were touched little to no times ever since season 1. -Willow getting closure with her conflict with Boscha -Amity and Willow rekindling her their friendship -Learning about Odalia’s abuse from Edric and Emira’s perspectives and learn how they were handling the situation -The bay queens favor and trying to find out about her previous owner -learn more about the coven heads -Skara breaking away from Boscha to join the Derby team Sometimes it’s the little things that are most interesting. People tend to get so caught up with the bigger picture, and focusing on popular characters like Hunter and Amity that other characters and plot points don’t get as much appreciation, love, attention, and spotlight

[@unknown_limes]

I personally think the Huntlow tease was only put in the show bc the fandom shipped it. Legit, they barely interacted at all last episode, and now they got a whole (ooc for Willow to-be-fkn-frank) b-plot together and the tiniest ship tease, ain't no damn way this was previously planned or had any set up. They saw that the fandom latched onto one of the ships that spawned from stapling Hunter to characters, and said "okay, let's do that, screw Gus doing anything to comfort his CLEARLY DISTRESSED CHILDHOOD BEST FRIEND"

[@Lily_Orchard]

It's been documented that since Any Sport in a Storm, Willow's existence has only been to interact with Hunter. So I don't think it was throwing the shippers a bone. This video goes way more in depth than I do kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHm4cod4YpqHoNk

[@Chocolatindo]

Not really, there's crew art of them from 2 years ago.

[@kmmk5022]

Plus, Huntlow was likely a thing just to parallel Caleb and Evelyn hooking up making Belos feel betrayed all over again. They could of simply just easily used Lumity as a prime example instead. Luz is human like Caleb and Amity is a witch like Evelyn so it would be effective

[@kmmk5022]

@@sonoio869 I’m more than pretty sure that Belos wouldve been peeved at Hunter dating Willow and Luz dating Amity

[@kmmk5022]

@@sonoio869 Well probably because Luz doesn’t have scroll of her own and likely has to borrow Eda’s to contact her friends similar to how she has to borrow Eda’s staff to get to places

[@dreamingleviathan3354]

I dont exactly see them changing Hunter with a single episode left, not drastically enough to fix the problem or the damage done

[@joahjoah92]

Between MLP, she Ra, Steven universe and the owl house I feel like your critics always have the core of pointing at how the executive producers uncheckedsubjective biases being what really tanks a show or a character. I agree and honestly it has helped me in how I see storytelling. And I seriously think it would be really interesting to see you making a video about how does that affect storytelling and its creative process and especially how it can be avoided. I don't know if you'll read this, but love your work.

[@keondramcintyre3444]

Within my life and my 2 friends' lifes, this appears to people who think Vegeta and Bulma have the "best marriage" in DB due to fanon instead of canon. Yet we all got asses kicked for saying Krillin and 18 have the best marriage!

[@midnightjay]

I have never watched Owl House past a few episodes from season 1 but enjoy these video essays a ton. 20:27 I felt this. Fandoms, fans, whatever the title hate criticism and I have no clue why. You love the thing? Guess how much better the thing would be if valid criticism was applied. I recently criticized the Mario movie and Legend of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom for its shortcomings and the level of cope was unreal. Even if you tell people you like it they think someone who criticizes thinks its trash. I agree, potential is not the same as what is done so it holds no merit when evaluating the final product. I'm exhausted of characters/stories getting credit for potential and not what is actually presents. People still haven't realized in 2023 that you can criticize the things you like. Most people who do like the thing they criticize. Sometimes, more than those who don't but it's always seen as a negative. Some people choose to be blind to enjoy things without challenge and its why mediocrity will continue to flourish. Feels like fandom regression and it makes me tired.

[@midnightjay]

@@sonoio869 You know, that makes sense. I think sometimes their stories are outlets for them too like writers do with fanfics. Overindulgent type of writing fanfics are known for. Which is not bad in a fan space, people write for free (and some write extremely well so this isn't an insult). However, in a setting creating network media they need boundaries. It's not supposed to be overindulgent, it's supposed to convey the goal of the show. Whether it be monster of the week, overarching story or whatever. Probably is praise too, some shows seem to write for fandom space in mind and not the overall quality of said show. Much like some fanfic writers. I think Lily & Mikaila Orchard hit the exact issue with a lot of cartoon writing. I remember watching Adventure time years back and it was an episode when Finn had faced an extreme trial and physical/mental/emotional trauma from it. After that he spends an entire episode being apathetic and "kissing" the princesses of the land and it was as weird to watch as it is to remember especially since Finn was canonically 12. It felt like the writers were going through something and used Finn as therapy. Which is not as scrutinized in a fandom space but in a network show for kids it felt...inappropriate? Was such a weird episode lol I think these recent shows have this same issue. I never watched SvtFoE but that is so messed up to need a book to understand the second season 💀I can only ask why, it locks out casual viewers and isolates viewers who are fans but never knew about the book and went into season 2 without it. I agree, if people can't understand the story after experiencing it (exceptions to this) then it's not only written poorly but then the story expects the viewer to pick up the metaphorical pieces. Most of the time, theories are better than the canon when that happens. Reminds me of the FNAF games, the convoluted, poor, bare bones writing gets on my nerves but people eat it up. Even worse because the creator rewrites/retcons when people figure out the story or just because stuff is cool.

[@kimchi._.2234]

When I know you’re atleast 70% right but I got to attached to hunter like you said :,) Honestly though, I got attached to the golden guard because I found him entertaining so when they trauma started showing up I thought it would be a Leo tmnt thing where he jokes about it and they would have a talk or something. It would then show up because *trauma * but it would get better and hunter would be a snarky supporting character that would help Luz. The grimwalker thing was cool I found it interesting and how it helped him relate to Gus but the friend ship was a bit rushed. The real problem is how Hunter is not allowed to be Hunter he's ether there to move the plot and be out of character (I think from how he was first built up but my man barely has one to begin with) or to be lambpowd with traumatic experience one right after enother. It was cool the first couple of times, not when every episode is Luz and Hunter get trampled while everyone else gets tossed. Gus really got the short end of the stick, they really couldn't figure out how to give him some character development. Huntlow I find strange because isn't willow like 14? And hunters 16 and a child soldier how that's going to happen? Willow like just got into HIGHSCHOOL and Hunter was basically in a cult his whole life (once again development who's she?) This logically make 0 sense but that's small potatoes compared to how Hunter quite literally doesn't have a stable character. He gives the illusion of progression but he switched from golden guard to Angst riddled teen WAY to quick even before Hunter knew about the coven and the previous golden guards. Number 2 he can't pull a plot by himself, on his stand alone episode he had to be with Gus and HALF THE SCHOOL to pull the plot. People really want this man to be MC when he can't be in a 12 minute episode ALONE or even 5 minutes SEGMENTS without falling apart. YEAH watch any segment in which hunter is alone or is supposed to progress the plot with minimal help from others and it's under 5 minutes. The only time Hunter doesn't filp flop or relies to much on other characters is in hollow mind i have a theory for this whuch will be stated later. LUZ can and has handled multiple single segments plot progressions and traumatic experiences without her entire character being trashed, Hunter works well playing off of others. That's the role he was made for, a side/support character who has moments and is sorta important to the plot. People wanted him to be the main character and he wasn't cut out for that because he wasn't MADE for that. The running theory I have is that hollow mind(side note I think this is the emperor mind episode i don't remember) was already done before hunter became main character in the fandoms eyes so he was playing the role he was made for supporting/side character. He worked so well in that episode then in the next one he practically let Gus carry him with only a few moments. I do not know if it was race thing I'm pretty sure it's not it's more people's weird interests with putting characters through hell for there own enjoyment. I like angst every now and then it's good but it gets to a point where even I go this is to much and Hunter was that. He was so jam packed with angst that he couldn't be character and wasn't joking anymore. I still wish they handled his character more Leo 2018 tmnt or leatherhead tmnt 2012 it could have been great to have a joking hide everything character kinda like Gus was trying to be or a blunt gruff snarky caring for only a small group and don't care about any one else type. Hunter could really use the latter and his character would be better .. written? I think that's the word, if he was able to be how the golden guard was just more melancholy and care more about the group.

[@kmmk5022]

km mk Let's not forget because of the oober amount of screentime he takes over, this made other character's development suffer as well who were already established within season 1. Concepts from season 1 were literally left behind to collect the dust made by how much time was spent of Hunter. We got little to no acknowledgement on things like Amity and Willow getting on better terms, Boscha and Willow and Amity's conflict, the Bat Queen's past, Caleb and Evelyn. Also the ship of Huntlow used to project Caleb and Evelyn, they could've just simply just used Lumity, an already established ship. It would work just as well, if not better. Plus, it could add a whole new layer to the Lumity ship Willow, THE VICTIM suffered from being one of the characters who got the short end of the stick being downsized to just being a mere plot device to develop Hunter and Amity. Gus suffered from the same fate as well Plus, Boscha was probably in just to make it seem like Hunter and Amity aren't bad people and try to erase their wrongdoings by having an irredeemed character to hate on instead. I literally thought they were gonna do something with Boscha's character in season 2 and better flesh her out but that didn't happen until the second to last episode of the entire series. They shouldn't estalbished Boscha's role within season 3, WITHIN SEASON 2, instead of focusing so much on Hunter. Episodes like Escaping Expulsion, Any Sport In a Storm, Labyrinth Runners, and the last two episodes of season 2 would've been great episodes to establish it. If anything, I'd much rather want a Boscha redemption rather than a Hunter one Plus the established friend circle of Luz, Amity, Gus and Willow got derailed because of how Hunter was taking Luz's place within the Luz, Willow and Gus trio. It ruined and derailed the possible development Luz, Gus and Willow could've had to build a strong friendship. Hunter had the big brother bond with Gus that Luz could've had with Gus

[@kimchi._.2234]

@@kmmk5022 YES, the fact that Hunter somehow doesn't develop despite the insane amount of screen time he takes over is honestly shocking. I wish Luz was able to be a brother to Gus because that would have been so neat.I really like labyrinth runners but I would have preferred Hunter being the older brother to all instead of just Gus (Gus and Hunter are my favorite btw). To be honest I didn't like Boscha because she felt lazy, like she was only there to be a bully and nothing else. I would prefer Viney development because of how guilty she would feel being on the same team as someone she builled relentlessly for most of her life, that would have been so COOL. Instead we got boring sports episode that establish Hunter has insecurities and flinchs. Shocker the person whose in a cult and been tormented by literally everyone in said cult, get this, flinches. And Darius is a good guy, wow what a waste. It could have been a viney episode or even a Viney AND Hunter episode yet it's that. Willow was really stunted with how much time Hunter took up. It was like her problems didn't matter has much in comparison to Luz's and Hunter's. Whuch is really sad because I like Willow. She was a really unique character and I especially liked her getting strong thing.I really wish she got more development. Hunter was in a cult and learned his whole life was a lie , Willow just stopped being builled and is trying to repair whatever it is with amity. They are in no way ready for a relationship Lumity should have been the relationship not huntlow. Not only does Luz have a lot of parallels with Caleb, it would have been awesome for Luz and Amity to have some big moment against Belos In which Caleb's relationship is brought up. Now that I think about it, Hunter would have been such a good older brother side character like imagine after Hunter finds out and helps Luz's friends a bit he starts acting like a older brother to them. He really should have been written like Raphael TMNT 2018, it would have worked so well.

[@kmmk5022]

@@kimchi._.2234 I mean I really did wish they developed Boscha more. She could’ve been an interesting character.

[@kmmk5022]

@@kimchi._.2234I’ve actually read fanfics who made Boscha a well written character and made her redemption arc believable and unique from Hunter and Amity’s arcs

[@Murmeska]

I'm really missing the Hunter's trash boy persona. He was so much fun when he appeared for the first time. I've hoped that after he will be done with this whole trauma shtick he will return to his glorious smug better-than-everyone else attetued but AGH- nope.

[@kmmk5022]

I think they should of kept him as a villian

[@LaissezFairyWriter]

When Hunter appeared, I hated him. It looked like they were doing the same thing with Lena from DT2017, the fake nephew/niece of a powerful witch who does their bidding because they have nothing else to live for and slowly learns how to accept friendship into their lives- eventuality becoming one of the main cast. But then as they revealed more of belos’ backstory, I thought, “oh that’s cool.” Hunter and Luz are direct parallels of Belos and his brother - just switched. And during the big fight, it’ll be like belos fighting his younger self. But we’re only one episode away and none of that has happened. In fact, Hunter bring a grim walker served absolutely no purpose to the story. Leave Hallow mind as it is and just take out everything with the grin walkers. Hunter runs away because his uncle is a frickin’ sociopath willing to kill anyone who defys him - same motivation. So now, why is he here? Just another abused friend to fight with the group? We have Lilith, Amity, Vee, Gus, Willow, Edric and Emera, and of course, Eda and King. Do we really need Hunter?

[@kmmk5022]

Let's not forget because of the oober amount of screentime he takes over, this made other character's development suffer as well who were already established within season 1. Concepts from season 1 were literally left behind to collect the dust made by how much time was spent on Hunter. We got little to no acknowledgement on things like Amity and Willow getting on better terms, the Boscha, Willow and Amity conflict, the Bat Queen's past, Caleb and Evelyn. Also the ship of Huntlow used to project Caleb and Evelyn, they could've just simply just used Lumity, an already established ship. It would work just as well, if not better. Plus, it could add a whole new layer to the Lumity ship Willow, THE VICTIM suffered from being one of the characters who got the short end of the stick being downsized to just being a mere plot device to develop Hunter and Amity. Gus suffered from the same fate as well Plus, Boscha was probably in just to make it seem like Hunter and Amity aren't bad people and try to erase their wrongdoings by having an irredeemed character to hate on instead. I literally thought they were gonna do something with Boscha's character in season 2 and better flesh her out but that didn't happen until the second to last episode of the entire series. They should’ve estalbished Boscha's role within season 3, WITHIN SEASON 2, instead of focusing so much on Hunter. Episodes like Escaping Expulsion, Any Sport In a Storm, Labyrinth Runners, and the last two episodes of season 2 would've been great episodes to establish it. If anything, I'd much rather want a Boscha redemption rather than a Hunter one Plus the established friend circle of Luz, Amity, Gus and Willow got derailed because of how Hunter was taking Luz's place within the Luz, Willow and Gus trio. It ruined and derailed the possible development Luz, Gus and Willow could've had to build a strong friendship. Hunter had the big brother bond with Gus that Luz could've had with Gus

[@LaissezFairyWriter]

@@kmmk5022 Oh man, you’re spot on about Boscha. When Amity and Willow had their reunion, I thought they were finally going to give closure to Boscha and a frickin’ reason “why” she decided to single out Willow all those years. I always figured she was doing it to impress Amity. And when Amity sees how her actions have shaped another person, she has to save Boscha from herself. Even the credit images make it look like that was the direction they wanted to go. But we just spent 35 minutes jerking around with an absolute waste of a character, completely sidelined the main cast, all to build the suspense for something that hasn’t happened yet. Willow had half an arc, Gus was reduced to just being voice of reason, and Boscha never had an arc to begin with. What a shame.

[@kmmk5022]

@@LaissezFairyWriter I legit thought Boscha was gonna play a role within Any Sport in a Storm. It would’ve been perfect chance for Boscha to make more of a major role but all she got was a small cameo. I think they should’ve cut the Lumity plot of the episode all together and replace the Hunter stuff with Boscha. That way, it would be more Willow centric, which is what this episode is SUPPOSED to be, plus it would Willow gain some closure in her character arc and it would’ve been a great chance for Boscha and Willow to have a rematch and for Willow to redeem herself from Boscha beating her at the grudgby game back in season 1

[@SuzuriHeinze]

I always saw it as "well the people making the show/game aren't doing all they could with it, why not do it myself?" Because if the show has that many noticeable flaws, and I don't add something to it myself, I'll just not watch it at all. But because I tend to do that when a show isn't satisfying, I will eventually see only my headcanon version of the character when they show up. I want the things I put my time into to matter to me, otherwise it's a waste of time. And my guess is that other people do the same thing. There's a show they want in their headcanons that looks like the one their watching, and that's what they see. I'm not invested in Hunter at all, so I haven't done it to TOH or SU or whatever... but I'm guilty of it in spades because I write novelizations of old Final Fantasy games. I love the ideas of these one note characters and I want the stories of those games to be good so bad that I do it myself. And I love what I've done with it. But when I go play this very barebones, super simple game from the 80s, I tend to imagine the plot I made as I'm playing. Which is how it became one of my favorite games ever. Is it wrong to turn something that would otherwise disappoint you into something you enjoy? Now you have me thinking about my entire relationship to fiction...

[@Lily_Orchard]

It's not wrong to turn something that disappointed you into something you enjoy. It is wrong to use fanfiction as an excuse to avoid criticising something. You shouldn't HAVE to do this kind of work. Shit should just be good to begin with.

[@jonasboel2473]

He's disappointing to me. It's why I like the fan comics where. He has potential, so at least the fans are doing it (mostly badly).

[@julianfischer6404]

I said before that Hunter is the most useless character that I have seen for a while. Doesn't amount to anything in the plot, takes away screentime from more important characters and has nearly no character personally aside of angsty whiney boy archetype. You didn't need another backstory of Belos aside being a former witchhunter who killed his brother and has a genocidial drive is enough that is enough. Also I don't know why all the fantasy stories where there is slice of life focus first want to dip their toes into fantasy adventure after the first one or two seasons. If you have chosen your basic plot remain there. It failed for Steven Universe, Star vs the Forces of Evil and the Owl House.

[@julianfischer6404]

@@sonoio869 Nothing. You could put such a character literally in any other fantasy adventure show and it would make no difference. Also characters like him are typical write-out characters. If he isn't able to carry on the plot most authors would write him out. Dana Terrace wanted to keep him regardless and the drop of focus in the last 7 episodes are partially thanks to wedging him and his arc in.

[@kmmk5022]

And Hunter and Willow acting some sort of parallel to Caleb and Evelyn which was unnecessary. They could've just easily used Lumity as a parallel to Caleb and Evelyn for Belos to take out his anger on because it would work just as well, if not better. He could of projected his feelings towards Luz instead of having this whole grimwalker thing because that way it wont overcrowd the cast of the characters while still giving Belos his whole projection sort of thing he does.

[@mr.dedede1324]

I don't know whether this is supposed to be available to me yet, but I'm not watching it until the 5th in case it isn't.

[@PieNumber4]

"Rendered in every color of the urine spectrum" GIRL YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO MURDER HIM

[@wisdommanari6701]

Yeah that's how I felt about a lot of characters in the sequel star wars trilogy.

[@birdthenerd2163]

i thought that dana was the one who wrote those letters and the VAs just read them to make it cooler

[@Kmosely42]

Hating something because of its wasted potential is a big thing for me. Its always aggravating to see great work go into so many parts of a project just for it to be absolutely fumbled by a few individuals.

[@ghostnorm]

yeah tbh season 3 kinda sucks, like time was passing but nothing has happened and before you know it the episode is over and you can barely recall a single thing

[@daviddedios8273]

Off topic but this is the same reason that millie and loona have writing problems from helluva boss. They don't have too much of a personality like millie being moxxie's southern wife and loona being a bitch (figuratively and kind of literal) plus not giving them their own episode to explore their characters.

[@eauxkei702]

Not to go off topic, but seeing that picture of Jacob makes me very curious about what your thoughts of him are

[@agentostrich]

I just wonder how different or better this show and the characters would be if Disney didn’t cut it’s time

[@Lily_Orchard]

Nothing would have changed. The intent of the writing team was already clear. People have suggested Hunter had a 2 season arc planned, which is 1.5 seasons than any other character. They were clearly going to spend even more time with him

[@agentostrich]

@@Lily_Orchard oh really? that sucks- i wish we had more time with other characters compared to him

[@kelstitch868]

At this point, the people who refute against good critics who don’t operate under bad faith offering constructive criticism of a show, it’s writing and it’s characters are starting to sound more like those restaurant owners featured on kitchen nightmares that are clearly deeply seated in denial, deflection and delusion when perhaps for some to the extent of sounding like Amy from Amy’s Baking Company, and idk if I should find that really sad or funny. It’s far from entertaining to deal with to say the least and I don’t want to treat it like that as I try to keep a fair distance away from fandom.

[@amandachristen3454]

Wait, is this supposed to be available? If it wasn't, KZbin's being stupid again.

[@bethbayless5652]

I am very afraid I do this with my writing. But I am too afraid of that happening and my writing being terrible to show others. I need to just do it. I am trying, a few scenes at a time.

[@randomguy6467]

Can i know what you're writing, i wanna see and read it :j

[@bethbayless5652]

@@randomguy6467 A tale of magic, murder, chaos, and sweet romance. The New Drifters must learn their duties by the seat of their pants in a time of war. I am hoping to publish later this year.

[@thongdo9809]

I really hate the phrase "but X have potential" mainly due to manga fandom. Basically manga magazine in Japan often cancel series that not selling or not attracting readers. The process used to be a mystery to Western manga fandom until recently with the release of MangaPlus which allow Western fan to see all the bad stuffs that got cancelled. People read the first chapter, start saying it have "potential" , ignore all the bad writing of the following chapters and act surprise when the series got cancelled because it bored the Japanese readers.

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

To be fair, there is a lot of stuff which was cool that got scrapped due to not being in big 3 and MHA decline in writing feels more sad considering writer tries to end manga and still feels afraid of cancellation even when he made it.

[@thongdo9809]

@@mikhaelgribkov4117 They got scrapped because they failed to do the bare minimum rather than not being the new big 3. Like they got axed because they have terrible ranking from readers survey and terrible sale. All the series that got cancelled are in the bottom of the magazine for a reason.

[@Trixster009]

God I love Wanda in the MCU but what they did to her in Multiverse of Madness was downright disgusting and disrespectful. Her beginning in the MCU was already trash because they made a Jewish Romani woman as white and willingly work with the Nazis but then they actually villainized her in her grief too?! Everyone kept praising the movie because Elizabeth Olsen's performance as a villainess Wanda was extraordinary and she "looked really cool and amazing doing it". But like watching her become a monster through her grief and pain was jarring. I hated it. I love Wanda and her potential was amazing but that potential was squandered by inept writers.

[@Wariorulesbaby]

i like watching these videos because i'm finally making my brain question things until i find a satisfying answer that helps me understand why i enjoy/hate something. "it's about damn time, what took you so long?!" is what i keep telling myself everytime when i hear about something that's treated like a miracle and wonder why didn't they do it sooner. in fact i don't mind getting spoiled on any form of entertainment that i find enjoyable and i think people who say "no spoilers" are cowards who are too afraid to question themselves to develop a better understanding by reevaluating their own opinion. i hope i made it easy to understand since i'm quite satisfied and i'm going to try to pay closer attention to my surroundings. thank you for making videos that make me use my brain since i'm having a lot more fun and energy.

[@nicolas._.2294]

I say no spoilers becs I wanna see that thing with my own eyes.....it destroys me all the satisfaction of seeing/reading something Just think knowing the final of a book, why would I read it then? I mean if I don't fall in love with the caracters or world building then I don't have any more reason to read it And it usually destroying me all the hype

[@nicolas._.2294]

And I also using my brain, I am analyzing the caracters, plot and other things after reading/seeing something and it helps me with my writing 😊

[@MayhamDumped]

Hunter took up every characters screentime in the rest of season 2. Especially in season 3 episode 2 where the hexsquad found titan blood while Luz and Hunter just sat aroud

[@mr.dedede1324]

When hunter first appeared, I was rather excited. the character wasn't anything new, but the owl house was insanely creative and awesome in its manner of being an actually good show. however, as he appeared more and more, I grew less excited at how the show would take this Edgelord archetype and make it into something good and more into exasperation. hunter had awesome potential because the show he was in had awesome potential. but he just sucks. he doesn't do anything, he doesn't have any character beyond "sad boi". as an angsty teenage white guy, his existence offends me. This stereotype is the worst problem facing America today.

[@kmmk5022]

Let's not forget because of the oober amount of screentime he takes over, this made other character's development suffer as well who were already established within season 1. Concepts from season 1 were literally left behind to collect the dust made by how much time was spent of Hunter. We got little to no acknowledgement on things like Amity and Willow getting on better terms, Boscha and Willow and Amity's conflict, the Bat Queen's past, Caleb and Evelyn. Also the ship of Huntlow used to project Caleb and Evelyn, they could've just simply just used Lumity, an already established ship. It would work just as well, if not better. Plus, it could add a whole new layer to the Lumity ship

[@moonstarstories1298]

This video is for everyone who claims Lily `mindlessly hates Hunter as a person`.

[@ysabellarivera8166]

No yeah, she's right. I say this as a big huntlow shipper and hunter appreciator. Even early on, we've noticed that hunter tends to overshadow other members of the crew, to the point of some of us in the Fandom having to work overtime to hype up gus and willow (who is my actual favorite character.) Hell, the reason I started shipping huntlow in the first place was bc its a crackship from that one fanart Dana did in Twitter with willow, gus, and hunter on their staffs flying in winter clothing. While it was really gratifying to get literal CRUMBS in season 2 (very grateful, but still so damn hungry), there's a huge part of the Fandom who's scarily overprotective and possessive over hunter's character that's bordering on toxic. While i might not agree with all of her points, Lily's right in saying that we deserve better. This is the show where we got Caleb's backstory entirely through portraits in the background of an episode, it seems that the writers have used it as a crutch to replace actual writing bc they've seen that it works (the Polaroids in Thanks to Them and the paintings in For the Future). The pacing in For the Future is SUPER fucked, and I would have wanted to wait another full year for them to polish it rather than getting it how we did.

[@kmmk5022]

Let's not forget because of the oober amount of screentime he takes over, this made other character's development suffer as well who were already established within season 1. Concepts from season 1 were literally left behind to collect the dust made by how much time was spent of Hunter. We got little to no acknowledgement on things like Amity and Willow getting on better terms, Boscha and Willow and Amity's conflict, the Bat Queen's past, Caleb and Evelyn. Also the ship of Huntlow used to project Caleb and Evelyn, they could've just simply just used Lumity, an already established ship. It would work just as well, if not better. Plus, it could add a whole new layer to the Lumity ship Willow, THE VICTIM suffered from being one of the characters who got the short end of the stick being downsized to just being a mere plot device to develop Hunter and Amity. Gus suffered from the same fate as well Plus, Boscha was probably in just to make it seem like Hunter and Amity aren't bad people and try to erase their wrongdoings by having an irredeemed character to hate on instead. I literally thought they were gonna do something with Boscha's character in season 2 and better flesh her out but that didn't happen until the second to last episode of the entire series. They shouldn't estalbished Boscha's role within season 3, WITHIN SEASON 2, instead of focusing so much on Hunter. Episodes like Escaping Expulsion, Any Sport In a Storm, Labyrinth Runners, and the last two episodes of season 2 would've been great episodes to establish it. If anything, I'd much rather want a Boscha redemption rather than a Hunter one Plus the established friend circle of Luz, Amity, Gus and Willow got derailed because of how Hunter was taking Luz's place within the Luz, Willow and Gus trio. It ruined and derailed the possible development Luz, Gus and Willow could've had to build a strong friendship. Hunter had the big brother bond with Gus that Luz could've had with Gus The show could of delved into plots that were touched little to no times ever since season 1. -Willow getting closure with her conflict with Boscha -Amity and Willow rekindling her their friendship -Learning about Odalia’s abuse from Edric and Emira’s perspectives and learn how they were handling the situation -The bay queens favor and trying to find out about her previous owner -learn more about the coven heads -Skara breaking away from Boscha to join the Derby team Sometimes it’s the little things that are most interesting. People tend to get so caught up with the bigger picture, and focusing on popular characters like Hunter and Amity that other characters and plot points don’t get as much appreciation, love, attention, and spotlight

[@randomguy6467]

​@@kmmk5022 well they started plot points in s1 not knowing its gonna get cancelled which made them shorten and take away alot of the plot points! Dont blame it on hunter blame it on disney for shortening s3

[@kmmk5022]

@@randomguy6467 They could’ve taken stuff out

[@kmmk5022]

Some of the episodes reinforce what we already know instead of giving us new info that we don’t know. Like with Hollow, it only reinforced Belos’ motives rather than giving us new information.

[@randomguy6467]

@@kmmk5022 what are you on about? Hollow mind litterly shower us the collector, it turned hunter into the good side and it even confirmed that belos killed caleb, what do you want instead of all that?

[@Nalem]

Great video as usual ❤

[@akirarose3947]

This kinda reminds me of how everyone tells me season 4 of yugioh dosnt count cus it was a "filler" arc but season 4 had the one of the best villains the best character deleopment and the craziest antics it probably one of the best ways possible and they expanded on it in season 5 of which was "mostly" also filler but all of that filler served as a vector to grow our fav characters For anyone needing context Waking the dragons season 4 (filler) Kc grand champ season 5 (filler) Capsule monsters season 5 (filler) Millennium wold season 5 (story)

[@oddgryffin]

honestly, it felt as though when we were nearing the end of the show hunter slowly began overtaking luz in the role of main character. sure, belos becomes more relevant and as a result so will his nephew/brother, but luz was a good main character and she had a lot left of her arc. if the creators wanted to continue the show while also making hunter angst, couldn’t they have done so in a piece of media other than the main show, so that hunter isn’t overshadowing luz as much as he was? obviously not everyone wants his tragic story blared in their faces while luz works on herself.

[@kmmk5022]

Let's not forget because of the oober amount of screentime he takes over, this made other character's development suffer as well who were already established within season 1. Concepts from season 1 were literally left behind to collect the dust made by how much time was spent of Hunter. We got little to no acknowledgement on things like Amity and Willow getting on better terms, Boscha and Willow and Amity's conflict, the Bat Queen's past, Caleb and Evelyn. Also the ship of Huntlow used to project Caleb and Evelyn, they could've just simply just used Lumity, an already established ship. It would work just as well, if not better. Plus, it could add a whole new layer to the Lumity ship. They couldn've easily simply just used LUZ instead to have Belos project his feelings on rather than creating a whole new character Willow, THE VICTIM suffered from being one of the characters who got the short end of the stick being downsized to just being a mere plot device to develop Hunter and Amity. Gus suffered from the same fate as well Plus, Boscha was probably in just to make it seem like Hunter and Amity aren't bad people and try to erase their wrongdoings by having an irredeemed character to hate on instead. I literally thought they were gonna do something with Boscha's character in season 2 and better flesh her out but that didn't happen until the second to last episode of the entire series. They should’ve estalbished Boscha's role within season 3, WITHIN SEASON 2, instead of focusing so much on Hunter. Episodes like Escaping Expulsion, Any Sport In a Storm, Labyrinth Runners, and the last two episodes of season 2 would've been great episodes to establish it. If anything, I'd much rather want a Boscha redemption rather than a Hunter one Plus the established friend circle of Luz, Amity, Gus and Willow got derailed because of how Hunter was taking Luz's place within the Luz, Willow and Gus trio. It ruined and derailed the possible development Luz, Gus and Willow could've had to build a strong friendship. Hunter had the big brother bond with Gus that Luz could've had with Gus

[@oddgryffin]

@@kmmk5022 my point exactly, labyrinth runners could've been an awesome episode for gus to have his past developed but instead it shoves him to the side to make way for hunter, after we'd already had an episode directed just at him

[@kmmk5022]

@@oddgryffin And Hunter wasn’t needed to establish that Belos was a horrible person. The tools were already established WITHIN SEASON 1. Belos’ low morality could’ve been perfect justified even without the whole grimwalker concept. I get they probably made that as a form of projection, but they simply could’ve used Luz as a form of projection of Caleb and even himself. He could have used Lumity as projection of Caleb and Evelyn. Heck Eda could’ve been great use of projection of Evelyn. The tools were literally right there, so making Hunter wasn’t even necessary to justify Belos’ evilness, it only just slowed things down and detailed concepts established in season 1.

[@oddgryffin]

@@kmmk5022i do feel like, however, we did get some insight as to what was going on inside the emperor’s coven because hunter was present and was being focused on. if we just had luz, it would be much more difficult to find out some more stuff about belos’s inner life. i think that hunter was a good character to add to the show, but the creators focused way too much on him when they already had a stable main character. but i do agree with what you said and using lumity as a projection of caleb and evelyn.

[@kmmk5022]

@@oddgryffin They could've easily used characters like Raine, Darius, Eberwolf, Lilith, Kikimora, heck even Steve for getting incite on the castle

[@01NeilHD]

Overfocus on low-impact side characters, main characters retreading old ground in unproductive ways, dragged out pacing of the story despite a lack of season runtime to tie up all loose ends... Are we about to watch The Owl House crash and burn the way of Star vs the Forces of Evil?

[@kmmk5022]

There are already some established characters they could've invested in more but no, they just had to make it the Hunter show

[@twonkwonk]

I really did not like FTF. It felt way too rushed and Hunter totally stole the attention. Luz's character kind of went downhill and now she's more of a sulk then the positive character I use to really like. Gus was definitely side-lined with the whole scene with Willow and the writing just seemed rushed and sloppy. I really think FTF is the worst episode so far. Although, I'm glad it did explore some characters? Would've loved to see it written better though.

[@kmmk5022]

Let's not forget, its not just Willow and Gus. Characters like Boscha, Skara, Viney Mattholomule, Edric, Emira, and even Bat Queen had their chances of development went out the window because of how much screentime Hunter took over. I legit thought they were gonna do more like them.

[@sonicstruckcardinal7]

Oh darn scallop :o a child with ADHD is actually acting towards her actions and feels guilty :(

[@ChimeraLotietheBunny]

this is a well rounded ever

[@Glitt3rsh0rtcake]

Block of wood with a frowny face drawn on it XD

[@PumkinPeter]

I'm honestly so glad you could be like- cool while discussing Hunter because I actually relate to him quite a lot. I also relate quite a lot to Luz, and as much as I can relate to the writing of the characters it's cool to see a critical veiw on it

[@its-actually-ash496]

This reminds me of my first viewing of Hunter, he was just kinda there for me. He was mean, he was an antagonist, but that was it. It wasn’t until I saw a video of someone saying that Hunter has an arc of identity and abuse and i rewatched the series and saw it. I feel like I shouldn’t be told or even have the suggested that was the arc Hunter has. It’s why I don’t really like Hunter that much. He doesn’t do much until later

[@kmmk5022]

Plus, he ate screen time and ruined possibly other characters’ development

[@GG1315]

Hey Lily did you know that there are people out there making hate videos on you one channel in particular has several videos on you saying how you encourage things like child abuse and child grooming, which I'm gonna guess they don't know what they're talking about, I love your videos Lily and I would do anything to help protect you from these Morons. Side note: I'm also the same guy you blocked on your main tumblr blog on account of me pestering you about Star Beniko which I am deeply sorry for doing that, I was just eager to get started that I started to lose patience, if you can forgive me or at least understand, it would be appreciated, with that said I will also defend you from people who spout misinformation about you, because I love your videos so why wouldn't I do that.

[@Lily_Orchard]

If you want to help, the best way to do that is to report the videos

[@GG1315]

​@@Lily_Orchard noted also as a side note lily please make a video addressing the allegations.

[@Lily_Orchard]

Criminal allegations are to be addressed in court, not KZbin.

[@piperjistic]

It’s a shame Hunter hogs up as much space as he has. Willow and Gus are right there. But of course white favoritism, theory crafting, fandom and wasteful writing all floods them away with shit. Not gonna lie, b/c of hunter and Luz’s mopey time, I’m not really interested in watching the first two ep of season 3 or actually watch the entirety of season 2. But hey! At least I learned that Dana also worked on Tangled the series, which had Varian… who’s another… angsty white boy…. Huh, second time on angsty white boy wagon. I know she didn’t write him but still. At least it’s a once in every few batches trope.

[@kmmk5022]

Also, Willow and Gus within season 2 were reduced to just plot devices to develop Hunter. Their own arcs suffered because they had to accomidate for a character who has little to no purpose just be some sort of guy friend for Gus, or some sort of fav favorite character. The Hexsquad was the way it was without Hunter

[@garynaccarato4606]

Sure of course a particular character might have plenty of potential but it makes you say well if they have potential then why don't they just hurry the hell up and show the potential before everybody starts getting impatient and wanting to move on?

[@hedefbogazici4]

18:13 Ouch. That's hurt really bad. This happened to one of my favorite charatcers too.

[@user-oq4hz7qh1c]

Eclipse Lake is my least favorite episode specifically because when willow and gus are in an episode with piss boy thay don't get shit, But when amity is in an episode with the yellow crayon she still gets to have development.