Is DEI ruining creative expression?

[@Dr4wfox]

Thanks dude, Im tired of those people ruining our favourite franchises

[@rain1676]

Sorry

[@Dr4wfox]

@@rain1676 What? Why?

[@K.R.98]

I see two problems with that „DEI“ approach. 1) the game gets developed with that in mind. That means that they don’t put the focus on making it fun or so. They waste resources to rip you out of your immersion. 2) it’s political propaganda in a product and that stuff is morally wrong. It’s a brainwashing attempt

[@Nexovus]

They just wrecked The Crow, royally fucked up SLC Punk 2, and now they're about to butcher the shit out of Tron 3.... I'm past tired, I'm pissed.

[@Dr4wfox]

@@Nexovus I just didn't get what "sorry" was about. But yeah, I'm really sad for Spiderman 2, Last of Us 2, even Ragnarok...

[@DoctorShafty]

Random people at the grocery store look way better. These studios are churning out straight up goblins.

[@HazVsRPG]

It's strange. And im coming at it from the art side. It still doesnt make sense.

[@BA3YDADDY]

It’s a crime you don’t have one million subscribers yet, seriously I just found your channel and I’m so happy i did, seriously dude you are now my favorite tuber, you are so based and it’s just amazing to listen to you, i even do it podcast style. Big gratitude from me, thanks for you and your work 🤗

[@HazVsRPG]

Man this comment means a lot to me, thanks so much dude. I appreciate it more than you know!!!

[@Urukage]

You are 100% on point with your breakdown of the various issues that are currently a plague in the gaming industry. I absolutely love these videos from you and hope to see more from a true Warrior of Light! Appreciate you, bud.

[@HazVsRPG]

Thanks so much brother, im glad people are liking these new vids!!!

[@K.R.98]

In my opinion There is actually a thing called „intentional uglification“. Woke games try to make females look uglier, so they don’t appeal to the male gaze. They also try to redefine the public perception of what is beautiful. (They think it’s a social construct) It‘s kind of the same with „bodypositivity“ in magazines. They bring in overweight women but the men in these magazines still have 6packs. They basically cater to the women and want to mold men into what is beneficial to women. I‘m not 100% sure about that stuff and if that’s really what’s going on, but it seems that way.

[@adamaccountname]

Short Answer: Yes, Long Answer: Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssssss

[@adamaccountname]

They likely used AI because it scraped those heads for features and just said make 100 characters

[@ginokolling]

As a character artist I thoroughly enjoyed this video and rant. On point and concise. I worked on BG3, there was a distinct effort in making characters 'hot'. The lack of the fantastical in other games is really killing them. Nobody wants to escape into their grocery store down the road, there's a reason for that.

[@HazVsRPG]

Its a critical component to the success of the leading cast and ultimately the engagement and game. How this is not at the forefront of a standard component is beyond my imagination lol. It doesnt mean every single person in your entire game world needs to be an adonis. Its more like, the main cast is the best of the best. BG3 is a gold standard character creator for a fantasy RPG. You guys did an excellent job 10/10.

[@ginokolling]

@@HazVsRPG Yah, it's bizarre! I wanna look up to the main cast for being exceptional, shying away from that visually while telling me that they are these legendary characters is just.. weird. And thank you sir

[@MrSpinteractive]

You know these thoughts and observations were made within Ubisoft but were suppressed by the DEI crowd by insinuating that those thoughts were sexist, racist, colonial, anti-trans, anti LGBTQIA+, etc. and the designers had to give up their fight for inspired and great design or face being labelled as a hater by the local embedded apparatchik.

[@HazVsRPG]

I mean, I can hazard a guess because even when I was in the industry, it was beginning. This whole thing started many years ago. And it's partly the reason why I left. I won't put my name on something I just don't morally believe in. When my art, gets downplayed for the sake of an agenda, that's when I say, 'well that's not my art anymore, I don't want my name on that'.

[@hazed1009]

​​​​good on you for staying true to the art. If everyone just gives in to this ideology we will lose what makes things unique and beautiful. Any appreciation of beauty will be labelled as wrong when nothing is more natural. Men and women appreciated beauty long before we had the ability to capture it on film etc. Love , desire and appreciation for beauty is what drove the poets and writers of the love tales , no one thought cinderella was plain and the same as everyone else. Or sleeping beauty was just like mrs bridgstone who runs the local grocers did they?? Hehe

[@edmundblackadder2741]

It isn't just art direction it's mechanics, story/writing the whole thing.

[@rkahlmann]

The 'E' stands for equity, not equality. That is also the main problem with this agenda.

[@HazVsRPG]

I know it does. But equity isn't the buzzword. Equality is.

[@Toshiboyai]

@@HazVsRPGequity is actually dangerous though

[@Alwaysttango]

If a company says "inclusivity" run, run fast and run far. It's always Mr Burns dressed as Jimbo, companies don't care about politics they're out there for your money

[@23345star]

Short answer: yes. Long answer: yeeeeeeeeeeees.

[@buckchoi]

I'm surprised and appreciate that you're touching on what is often a radioactive subject with a straightforward and honest perspective. I happen to agree with you. TBH I had very strong (negative) opinions about Star Wars Outlaws, but your video on it allowed a fresh perspective without trying to gaslight me as to its issues. On that subject, I think this new conversational/natural style works much better for me. Keep it up!

[@CGsoufiane]

There is no fucking way they just took a 3d scan store face for a main cast character, this is a new low for Ubisoft holy shit xD

[@HazVsRPG]

I mean..... HAHAHA It was a random find, but look at it. Its such a great starting point for Vail. Seriously a few minor tweaks and we are done. So it doesnt surprise me.

[@ZoOlja]

Every normal person will agree with you. I don't know whats wrong with these devs or whoever is making the final choice in the character designs, I don't want to see ordinary, generic people in a video game. Whats the point of fantasy, of all the literally limitless creativity if you're just gonna take little timmy's face and copy paste it on everyone. What is wrong with these people??

[@HazVsRPG]

I mean, tbh i dont MIND it if it makes sense, but there is still a way to make 'everyday normal people' in a fashion that does them justice and makes them look awesome. Rockstar is really good at this - check the BG characters in Red Dead Redemption for example!!

[@Kaesemesser0815]

These characters don't even look like ordinary people, but much worse.

[@Riven321]

They've been indoctrinated into a belief system. The vast majority of western game devs are like this now. I don't buy western games anymore as a result.

[@caseylascallette7269]

Right... They look worse than normal... They look like game journalists!

[@aliceandwonderland207]

Totally agree with you! Found your channel today and watched several of your videos, agree with your point of view ! Subscribed! 👍

[@HazVsRPG]

Thanks so much!! Welcome!!

[@Hardcorakias]

Bless you man, straight to the point.

[@Crestnutt]

It seems like they almost want to use non gender specific characters to "please" everyone. But that is an absurd idea.

[@HazVsRPG]

Agreed, that would be a silly idea lol.

[@ironclad4451]

its also just a terrible art choice. basically you take 3 possible designs. (masculine, feminine, and ungendered) and end up with just (ungendered) so you just cut your design options by 2/3.... boring, and stupid. this stuff makes me depressed, I want MORE options, not fewer options. I want wild and creative fantasy, NOT real life.

[@caseylascallette7269]

They aren't going to stop either... The plan now is to essentially lie in the advertising... Classic bait and switch

[@CV-gr4gj]

Equity is not equality, 2 different things.

[@overthetop7175]

Really, who wouldn't want to work at Ubisoft, get paid and ship head for 30 bucks instead of a job?

[@McSwarlton]

You jumped into FarCry 5 after Star Wars Outlaws. I jumped into RDR2, for the first time ever. Also made in 2018. You can imagine my awe.

[@HazVsRPG]

Holy crap UH OH MISTER!

[@kalmarkoma]

Great video. Subscribed. Great examples. And not to much filler talk.

[@LordCritish]

TLDR: Yes!

[@rustytanks]

My wallet doesn't support DEi or SBi

[@jsmith434w]

as someone who attends dailies for digi doubles almost every, but not an artist, could it be that these artists are lacking time/talent? also, what if they are meant to be generic people who stand out in their actions? angela orosco is such a powerful but ordinary character to me, am i missing something?

[@jsmith434w]

subbed btw, hope you create content to give us insights about your craft, its truly fascinating.

[@HazVsRPG]

It's like this, when you have films where actors carried / or made those films. Stellar performances. You just simply cant imagine the film without that person. this is why they become timeless. the same can be said about putting an actor, or actress into a game if thats what we are doing. Ubisoft is 100% capable of making great likenesses, they have done so for the past 8 years or so and as a company they are very forward thinking with sharing resources and talent from all of thier studios. Im stumped as to why, there is a DOWNGRADE. from a female face, when for example they are able to pull off Giancarlo Esposito for Far Cry 6. Jump into it, look at the screen and images of him - it is a fantastic likeness. Now look at Kay Vess. Its not even remotely close. Humberly is a very attractive and beautiful woman, it just doesnt make sense. Also this is star wars, its not a budget issue, or a time issue, something I would definitely think woudl be the case for a smaller dev or a lesser known IP etc. Something is not adding up here.

[@TheChenny73]

Imagine if you go to Gentlemen’s Club where they implement DEI to the max. No more fantasy, normal and everything abnormal is in. 😂

[@HazVsRPG]

it simply wouldn't exist anymore hahaha! But that's a whole other topic from the point I'm making!!

[@nbdante]

Maybe I'm on the extreme side, but I stopped buying games from certain publishers a long time ago for the reasons mentioned in the videos and also for their the way the monetize their game and I'm not changing my decision! They don't change they'll only find a way to hide their bad side ( Ubi, EA, Activision...) I'm not missing much because there are plenty more studios who make great games!

[@HazVsRPG]

So whats your list dude?

[@nbdante]

@@HazVsRPG If you're asking about the companies I boycott, it's the one mentioned above (EA, Ubi Soft, Activision) not even them rebooting the OG Phantasy Star or remaking Vagrant Story will convince me to buy it from them! My current list games I played and enjoyed, Like a Dragon Infinite Health, Grandblue Fantasy Relink, Unicorn Overlord and Kunitsu-Gami, mostly because they were straight up fun, relaxing and didn't feel they are trying to trick/force me to do activities that meant to bloat the duration of the game instead of being fun (one particular game that many loved, that I didn't enjoy so much). The game mentioned above maybe had some grinding but nothing terrible are I didn't want or enjoy doing! I hope I answered your question!

[@GaliosUA]

I suppose you won't be buying the Veilguard then ;D.

[@HazVsRPG]

Veilguard didnt open with a big schpiel about it - which sits okay for me, but im definitely hovering on the fenceline about how this is going to effect the game overall, too many examples of it seeping though and making their way to being more than just 'in the game'.

[@SeriousPeaches]

If pretty graphics are the main selling point for games/ new consoles/ GPUs, why would you, as a business entity, interested in maximizing profits, ever put ugly leading characters in your video games? It makes no sense. And why would you pursue "realistic" characters in a fantastical world that is inherintly unrealistic? And if you want normal body proportion for female characters, why would you make them flat when the average woman in the US, where most of these Western DEI games are coming from, has a D cup? The Halo effect is very real and there is a reason why people are still drawn to characters like Sylvanas Windrunner, and Illidan from WOW - they are attractive designs first and foremost.

[@sarim9574]

I think this is why east asian games are starting to get more attention. They make good looking and interesting characters (thinking final fantasy) albeit sometimes its overdone

[@HazVsRPG]

Final Fantasy is a great example of being VERY varied, not overly sexual, inclusive and progressive done correctly!

[@Cooper3312000]

I 100% agree. I played through Star Wars Outlaws and skipped almost every cutscene. Horrible characters ruining the entire game. I liked the Star Wars background environment but the story and the characters, man so bad.

[@HazVsRPG]

One of the things that was so up and down was the lip synch. sometimes, totally on point, other times, was like it wasnt even on at all lol.

[@BoyseyFTW]

Completely agree, i do not want social engineering in my face when i play a video game. Escapism, immersion, entertainment, this is what i play a video game for. If you take a look at the characters people made for their pawns in Dragons Dogma 2, you will see 80% attractive characters and 10% funny charactures made for a laugh. The remaining 10% are role-play characters. If you design characters for a game, take a look at the ones created by the players of this game for a reasonable guide as to what people want.

[@ironclad4451]

none of these characters even have any flashy features at all? facial scarring, robot eyes, an eyepatch, wild hair decorations, tattoos, nothing? look at veil, an eye patch, and some dramatic scarring, which was then partially hidden by her keeping her coat collar high, would elevate the character by leaps and bounds, and its a tiny change.

[@demoniclaw5162]

we have all ready seen what happens if they do not destroy the greats thanks to Sony

[@TrynePlague]

No, not really. Because for every bad looking western game, two good looking Asian games are released. And we only got one live anyways. So just don't buy the bad ones and waste your time and money.. I think we pretty much made a point all together by not buying Concord.

[@erth8096]

That's true, but I don't like most of the Asian games because of their gameplay, story, combat, and microtransactions. Not all Asian games are like that, but most do, and I actually enjoy playing western games, and we didn't have this problem a few years ago, so it's completely okay to complain. Look at the cyberpunk characters. I want those kinds of characters in my games.

[@brokemono]

I used to joke that my dead grandma could make a better game and now when I think about it, she really could at least direct a decent game. My guess is some interactive story, similar to The Walking Dead Telltale, hahaha. The point being, if my dead grandma can make better games then wtf are these guys doing today?

[@HazVsRPG]

not advancing at all hahaha!!

[@edwelndiobel1567]

Shoe horned diversity isnt diversity at all its segregation in of itself! This is because you are specifically targeting or NOT targeting demographics.

[@HazVsRPG]

Yeah I don't know whats worse man, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

[@ironclad4451]

I like to distinguish what you're describing as "forced diversity" vs what you get in a real world building project "organic diversity" if you have a huge fantasy world, all the people in some rural northern town, should proooobably be the rural northern species. While some central melting pot commerce based, city should be very diverse. what we get, is a tiny rural northern town, with every single species, and subgroup somehow crammed into it, and it becomes ridiculous. even more so now, where diverse design is ruined, by smashing everything together. then, they decide other stuff doesn't belong, and start censoring things. Its not true diversity, its "this is what I think diversity should be"... and it sucks.

[@jfkst1]

They'll probably just incorporate it into the game without being upfront about it.

[@HazVsRPG]

Thats the right way to do it. there isnt anything wrong with being inclusive, its just how its handled. Are they force feeding it to you? Are the characters constantly reminding you in the dialogue that they are 'xyz' is it their whole personal identity? Things like that make it feel like the developers are parading their inclusivity which is terrible. Its like treating someone like a circus attraction. 30 years ago we literally had a thing where 1 token black guy was in films and he usually died really soon into the film. That was actually a thing. Crowbaring this into games and parading it feels similar, its so bad.

[@jfkst1]

@@HazVsRPG I recognized it pretty quickly with BG3. But the game at least gives you some options for controlling it. I also understand some of that agenda might be why Larian didn't want to work on any more DnD material.

[@torgo_]

Generally, game studios are trying to make money, to sell a product. If for some reason it was profitable to grind up puppies and use their pulp to cast a magic spell to increase profit margins, then they would do it without hesitation. Generally it's just a cynical attempt to reach a broader audience or to satisfy their current audience. It's not good or bad, it's just how businesses operate: following trends and trying to predict customer needs.

[@HazVsRPG]

Yeah I see that, im hoping that Ubisoft recovers and cleans up, because seeing them go down would be really bad for the industry. I generally never want to see a dev close, but instead to improve, sort their shit out.

[@torgo_]

@@HazVsRPG I agree the AAA game industry is in a pretty sad state, a lot of money down the toilet, a lot of missed opportunities. But I think this could also signal a turning point. Gamedev tools and resources are becoming much more powerful and more accessible. I wonder if we're transitioning towards an exciting new era where smaller teams make bigger impressive games, and the big developers are relegated to the task of pumping out predatory shovelware for grandma's ipad. In a similar way to how TV/film has started to die off and replaced by content from smaller independent creators/influencers.

[@АнгелСтойнов-е4ь]

Great video, and great breakdown of the characters. Really made me think about the shitty designs in outlaws.

[@HazVsRPG]

Thanks man, yeah it's very low effort!!

[@spazmagoog]

Diversity itself isn't even the problem. I'd be perfectly happy to play as a gay black woman with a disabled elderly transgender sidekick or whatever else fills the DEI quota, just so long as they're interesting, well-written, well-designed, visually appealing and at least somewhat relatable characters. And visually appealing doesn't even need to mean sexy. But it seems whenever DEI is put front and center all we get is bland, unattractive, disagreeable slop.

[@HazVsRPG]

Yeah exactly, and that's the main thing, it seems like when it's a talking point, it's crap, when its not a talking point it's done right. So until they figure this out and stop making a big deal of all this, and shining a light on it and getting back to focusing on good gameplay and solid writing, these things will just be 'normalised'.

[@FabianRaphaelKrenn]

Without a question, yes.

[@nunchuksteev9811]

Well said.

[@openquestline]

Remember about the Avengers when they release the first Trailer. The faces was looks like straight out generated from Poser 😅 They make it better,but can not beat the Avengera actors. That's why peopel raising game like Stellar Blades and Wukong. A monkey has morr appeal than a person 😂

[@StillLateToTheParty]

I think it’s less DEI and more just laziness and lack of creative vision… Vail in Outlaws is such a good example. There’s no DEI there. An artist could have given her a unique hairstyle, facial makeup or something to really make that character pop. But she’s just nothing…

[@HazVsRPG]

Yeah she is really a nothing character, background npc run past and never look at them even once.

[@nadtz]

Anyone who remembers when Marvel/DC did this knows where it goes. It might take some time but in the end pandering to a minority who for the most part does not consume your media is doomed to fail because at the end of the day you are supposed to be making money. It's just sad watching franchises I've grown up with over the years get destroyed and it's not just games and comics. Asimov, Tolkien, Jordan, Lucas, not to mention more modern examples like Terminator and that's just off the top of my head. At least I'll give Concord credit for not ruining an already existing IP but then again that game was probably the biggest flop in video game history so it's not like that's really a compliment. That said I gave up on Ubisoft some time ago, there's a reason you often see Ubislop in the comments of videos for/about Ubisoft games. Ubisoft games have been lazy cash grabs for some time now, throw DEI on top of that and you get games like Outlaws and the upcoming AC Shadows.

[@HazVsRPG]

Im really curious about AC Shadows. Im hoping its a good game, but Ill be able to detect this crap a mile away and it will sour my experience for certain. They must be sweatin in their pants right now because they know they cant make any sweeping changes now, its too late.

[@nadtz]

@@HazVsRPG It's funny, you are the second person to say 'they must be sweating right now' in regards to AC:S in 2 days. I personally think the game will probably do well but if analysts are correct if it doesn't sell a metric buttload of copies it won't make up for Outlaws underperforming. I'm guessing we won't really know until Ubisoft earnings are out after Shadows releases, so early next year.

[@SirBalz]

It's completely deliberate. I've made a million characters using the standard bethesda tools for my videos. It's easy to make a character that stands out and is interesting even with those basic old tools. Yet the minute I boot up starfield. It's like they made an active and I do mean active effort to take those tools and make the worst possible combinations of features on all of the npcs populating the game. It angers me because I know it's not a technical problem. It's an ideological problem

[@HazVsRPG]

1000% it is. I could have really gone in depth with this, as an avid skyrim modder as well - But because the topic is so radioactive, its so easy for it to lean into straight out shit slinging and degrading which is definitely not what im going for.

[@dhockedy1273]

HEAR HEAR!

[@TehJumpingJawa]

I think it's just Star Wars Outlaws is a pile of shit. A game put together on a shoestring budget using off-the-shelf assets. Not quite an asset flip, but it's certainly exuding that stench. The faces kinda remind me of Mass Effect Andromeda.

[@HazVsRPG]

Yup they did the same thing with andromeda, very generic heads all round.

[@ironclad4451]

its easy. you can limit your creation cycle, limit your required 3d models, limit your work load, concept art, and worldbuilding, by just making everything normal. you only need 1-2 mocappers because all the faces are based off a generic normal person. Only need 2 set of animations, because everyone's bodies, are the same, "DEI" is just an excuse to be lazy at every step of development, and then deflect any accusations of laziness.

[@Deathandgaming]

I was about to disagree based on the title but the way you explained makes it seem like diversity is not the problem but the uninteresting character designs are which i agree. it does feel looking at your examples they just dropped a head on a 3d model by someone else and called it good. i think "normal" looking main characters can be fine but it depends on how we define normal. characters that are iconic and memorable are important and i don't think that necessarily means sex has to sell. i do love a good sexy character don't get me wrong! but to me at the same time art matters so little to a game being good or not i'm not bothered if we are able to give a group good representation in games by mixing things up. i do think we have a power to easily make people feel seen at little to no cost but you are correct that they still need to be memorable by design. i worked on the order 1886 back in the day and i will say that although the main cast were "normal" every day looking people they still looked awesome and had character without being sexy or super masculine.

[@HazVsRPG]

See, I will always disagree with adding a normal looking person in a lead / important role. This is what casting directors do, they are looking for a certain 'look'. Boring characters will always make people drop off and pay attention less, but the opposite when someones presence, commands attention. All the normies are for lesser characters and roles. This is very difficult for film. But should be so easy for games, because it's a make believe, if someone doesn't exist, we use our skills to make them exist. Ubisoft has done this already for years. It's strange that for Outlaws, it's failed all round.

[@Deathandgaming]

@@HazVsRPG See I actually think we do agree. Games are make believe and I prefer when they go more over the top cause it's so far from realistic and can be while still making sense. Also casting directors sometimes pick people who they think are normal but end up becoming more interesting and lead material. when you bring up casting decisions i specifically remember actors like Ryan Gosling who is an attractive leading man but when he was first picked for "The Notebook" the director said "I want you to play this role because you’re not like the other young actors out there in Hollywood. You’re not handsome, you’re not cool, you’re just a regular guy who looks a bit nuts." he was at the time seen as a normal person but we wouldn't say that today. Back in the day brad pitt and George Clooney were leading men and then benedict Cumberbatch and adam driver came along and they don't have that Hollywood look but they were still made more interesting by Hollywood. i think games has the same power to do that but probably even easier like you mentioned. what i'm trying to say is i think our perception of what is attractive can and should change over time but it's not as simple as just introducing different like outlaws did. their designs and examples you used were definitely forgettable especially for it being in the star wars universe. hairstyles, outfits, makeup, accessories, tattoos, accessories, etc... really change and tell a lot about a character and I think studios need to do a better job at making characters that are different just look more iconic. different for the sake of different is not enough.

[@HazVsRPG]

See, for me Adam Driver and Benedict have extremely interesting faces, they are NOT 'normal'. When I say normal, or when i use the word timmy, im referring to the unfortunate masses, of which 99.95% of the population falls into, myself included, we are simply for the most part, ordinary. Our faces, dont have that massive unusualness or strikingly beautiful angle that can be shaped into something else. Look at how flawlessly Giancarlo Desposito was created for Far Cry 6, really look at the face, see how it was captured, the likeness is remarkable and if anything, the face features have been reinforced by the art team. Now do that with Humberly Gonzales side by side, and see how - they made her uglier, period, the exact same thing with the mother of dragons. Now go and ask all of your female friends, (dont prewarn them with anything) How would they feel if you were to put them into a game, as themselves, their name, their identity. Every single one of my girl friends have said theyd love it! Then say to them flat out, but im going to make you uglier than you are though, but its still you. Enough to make you look at yourself in the game and be like 'wait, i dont really look like that do i?' And watch them every single one of them be like 'nope! No way in hell!'. But watch them all be like 'you can make some slight tweaks and turn that hotness knob up a notch or two!, but not DOWN!'

[@bluedolphin4366]

there is less and less games I am interesting in buying right Now 2024

[@8_8_Purpura_Committatus_0_5]

Yes.

[@Britephartt]

DEI seems to have very little positive effect.

[@aromardu]

They all look plastic and stoic. No character from their expressions or postures.

[@HazVsRPG]

Yeah thats part of it, and that is often touted as 'Shes a badass, stoic, fearless boss' etc etc and from my perspective im like, no, its just crap art.

[@AquilesX11]

I first noticed this trend with Andromeda , the male Ryder looked exactly like the model they used , the female Ryder looked nothing like it. Mary Jane Watson in Spiderman is no longer a model or aspiring actress , instead she is now Lois Lane, but not attractive at all. I'm one of the few that thinks that Kay is attractive , but I agree they did not make her look like the model who is drop dead gorgeous. The facial animations stinks , all she really needs is some makeup and a new hairstyle , love the voice acting btw. I thought that BG3 would finally inspire devs to embrace the artistic approach in video games , but instead we are getting uninspired characters in video games. Also females do not dress like males , when are game devs going to realize this??? Anyway I'm longing for the day when an artistic expression wins over a political agenda. I lean hard left in my politics , but I can see what is going on here.

[@HazVsRPG]

Thanks for taking the time to write! I like hearing different opinions, gives me time to absorb things from as many angles as possible! Agreed, artistic expression should always win when it comes to making games, otherwise what is even the point lol.

[@geeg]

such a based video and very well put! nice one

[@ScottLacey-r9x]

ye your dead on the mark

[@markmills4980]

the issue with games that you mention have nothing to do with inclusion, it's generally bad game design. game devs don't have to set aside a bunch of extra budget, time, or dev manpower to have a game star a boring looking dude. it's ultimately a superficial decision that doesn't affect mechanics, world design, writing. there are plenty of "non-DEI" games that suck so drawing a line between "DEI" and "bad games" feels a little... sketchy, to say the least. i think seeing a more diverse cast of people in games is good, and not a trend. people want people that remind them of themselves in media, and with gaming being a global multicultrual hobby it only makes sense and is kinda weird it hasn't happened sponer. and it's really strange when people consider "non-DEI" people to be the default. if you want big muscles and tits, play warhammer or stellar blade. these games are still getting made. you seem to be conflating bad or boring character design with "DEI" is which again not the same thing. devs have been trying to make character models look like real people forever and have just failed until recently because of tech limitations. look at any PS1 survival horror game and imagine what those models would look like today... like normal people with normal proportions. these aren't actual issues you're raising. it feels more like wanting to justify having more sexy character models. which is fine, but it isn't a "cultural issue." it's just tastes changing over time; you have a right not to like it but don't make it seem like a more serious problem than it is. i think it began with the PS3 generation when games couls finally more accurately portray "real-life," and i'm sure we'll get more sexy chunky character models in a few years once the designs trends swing back in another direction. i think it has more to do with our current economic reality and games playing it safe/taking shortcuts right now than it does anything else. DEI is just an irrelevant term to use here, and paired woth your thumbnail of two non-white looking women is misleading in a kinda weird creepy way.

[@markmills4980]

lol!!! got to the 10 minute mark and all your examples were women who weren't remarkable or attractive enough. then your "good example" is a generic lookong white guy. maybe your thumbnail was more spot-on than i originally gave you credit for. again, even in that example the real issue is that star wars is just a worse game than far cry. it has nothing to do with their face models.

[@HazVsRPG]

Consider a few things I've said, because my point is absolutely not what your saying here. I never said inclusivity is bad, Im making an observation that game devs who come out, touting that they have it, right from the get go, are filled with boring looking character designs. The easiest game to cherry pick recently is concord. I'm also saying that the games who talk the loudest about it, seem to put in very low effort even when they have an actor or actress scan to work with. As this was my job, and I have done this for many years, I know exactly what's involved and there is no cause to *ever* make someone uglier than they are. I'm also basing this on many conversations I've had with friends still active in game dev and working on huge games that everyone knows, and they have been specifically asked to turn the attractiveness down. It's not about big bouncing boobs that's over simplifying things far too much.

[@markmills4980]

​@@HazVsRPG where did star wars outlaws market that they have a diverse cast of DEI characters??? also, not sure wjere my other comment went, but it's weird that your examples of "bad designs" are all unremarkable/not conventionally attractive women, and your examples of good designs are balding bearded men with glasses. odd.

[@markmills4980]

again, i think that making characters resemble real people simply isn't a "cultural issue."

[@HazVsRPG]

Your arguments are terrible lol.

[@CurtOntheRadio]

The unstated thing about your argument that "it's normal and good to be attracted to shiny" (paraphrasing) is the other side of the coin - we have negative reactions against things we are unfamiliar with and about which we hold *prejudices*. That's the source of the general cultural effort towards what is now (prejudicially) pigeon-holed as "DEI". DEI has nothing necessarily to do with shit games and shit design, shit art, shit writing, shit gameplay, etc. As you say, it depends on the execution and treatment. But that isn't how most of those doing the complaining view the situation. Plenty are pushing the view that DEI is the problem, and DEI makes bad games. Period. This is a reactionary position, one intended to exploit the situation as part of a wider political moment, obviously. Not everyone criticising "DEI in games" is a racist, misogynist or homophobe. But every racist, misogynist and homophobe is a critic of DEI. So, some care is needed. You take some more care than others (appreciate that btw) but there is a risk of feeding the reactionary sentiments of the, errr, "deplorables" in the gaming world. (Just read any comment section under any video criticising "DEI"). Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? It's shit games (or shit anything) that is the problem, not DEI. And obviously DEI can be shit. But "DEI=SHIT" is clearly wrong and regressive.

[@HazVsRPG]

Yeah it seems to me, when its spearheaded by a game dev that uses it as a talking point like its using a neon arrow sign pointing to the fact that we have a gay character in our game. I honestly dont know whats worse, not being inclusive, or parading this character around like a trophy. And A lot of game devs seem to be using the 'parade' technique. It feels a lot like 25 years ago when directors would add in a 1 single token black guy that was always killed in movies first - ie where the whole meme came from. That was real, thats what this feels like - and to me, its terrible.

[@NocturnalNick]

definitely ruining good youtube videos

[@mrmurdock6994]

Join the fight against WOKE in Dragon Age The Veilguard. Boycott it.

[@ssasdddddt]

You're not wrong, but the way you explain it is annoying af

[@HazVsRPG]

Thank you for your feedback.

[@bitterpaul6151]

Jumping on the alt right bandwagon cause you can't get views any other way is rather pathetic. Maybe give up on the whole streamer thing and save what dignity you have left.

[@guzzo3913]

He gets plenty of viewers over on twitch brother. He’s just now getting back to KZbin. Imagine talking shit about one of the most wholesome “streamers” I’ve seen. L narrative.

[@mrfrenglitch2172]

@@guzzo3913 Dude's unhinged. He tried to do youtube 4 years ago and failed miserably and now he's bitter towards other channels.

[@guzzo3913]

@@mrfrenglitch2172 his name checks out 😅

[@dirtclaw]

tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video

[@HazVsRPG]

Nah i gave up because of dealing with people like you @lew6598 on a day to day basis, there's just so many of you both inside and out of the industry. the type of person that even when I change careers you still follow me around trying to call me out and put me down. Let it go boss, its okay - plenty of other sculptors in the sea!! ;) #exposed

[@Unworshipediety]

I usually don't pay attention to the *big sell,* or whatever the company is pushing, because they're gonna make that money and trying to tell companies how not to make more money doesn't really pan out. As our world gets bigger the excuse of not including minorities in your sales pitch starts to lose it's appeal. This is mostly because people of different races, creeds, and the like are having lots of sex together. Cultures are clashing, mixing, and all that jazz. I do think some companies go out of there way and kind of make it cringe sometimes, like instead of just showing us that the cast is diverse (via BG3) they also have to tell us, which is weird because we have eyes and can see it's diverse. For me it's, does it look fun? If so, then I'll possibly buy it after doing a little investigating. Currently the fascination with women's bodies has spilt over into the gaming industry more so than it has ever been. In the west it's a very puritanical view, you've got religious folk saying women don't have rights over their own bodidy autonomy, while others are making age of consent complaints, and lastly you've got people saying that women need to be believable in their roles, even if the setting is a fantasy or sci-fi. So that's a thing that's hard to deal with sometimes as making a female characters that are appealing but also factoring in societies so-called qualifications as baggage, I'm sure it's very frustrating for creatives to deal with. I'm 50/50 on that but absolutely agree there needs to be a baseline of interest for a main character, at least on the front end of just being visually appealing in some facet or at very least interesting to view. Lastly, it's all about being able to escape the mundane and view yourself as the player, or even the npc's as being truly remarkable. I was surprised at seeing how the characters looked in Star Wars Outlaws, yuck! They were so clean-cut and didn't even have that dirty sand planet look to them?! But yeah, I'm a pretty libby guy to honest but it should be pretty easy to have an attractive guy or gal and still have them be interesting for a game. I think Ellie from the Last of Us 2, is a good example of that, yet it's a game that isn't asking for a _sexy_ protagonist yet she's got that hole vibe if you're into the whole post-apocalyptic type of gal that's a do it yourself killing machine. Thanks for providing a video that wasn't toxic to view or to listen to. I really enjoy hearing this by someone who isn't trying to sale me on hate. Good luck and thanks for taking the time to rationally express your opinion.

[@HazVsRPG]

Hey I really appreciate you taking the time to write this out and actually realise im not spewing hatred here. Its a difficult topic to discuss with a level head, its so easy to go way off the rails, especially once examples are used. But as this was my exact job for a long time, its even alarming for me to see it, because It doesnt make a lot of sense. And im picking on Star Wars Outlaws because I just finished it so its fresh in my mind, but there are plenty of other examples too.