HBO's Charlie Hustle & The Matter of Pete Rose Made Me Quite Angry

[@veronicaprice]

I was recently at Cooperstown, and the shocking thing is how much Pete Rose IS in the HoF. He was so good it’s impossible to not have his name mentioned when discussing baseball. It makes the fact that he’s not in The Plaque Gallery even more ridiculous.

[@texaspipeman8973]

He’s actually in the museum. The HOF is just the room where the plaques are. Thats is owned by MLb. The rest of the museum is private owned and not part of the HOF. They just share the same building.

[@veronicaprice]

@@texaspipeman8973 Yes, thank you for explaining it correctly. ☺️

[@Jay_Mike]

One of the biggest losses in baseball history is not having Rose in the Hall.

[@mikesmediareviews3925]

Without a doubt. Basically cheapens the whole thing.

[@koves17]

It’s honestly hypocritical that they don’t when they advertise sports betting during the games and in the stadiums now.

[@madLphnt]

Yeah but players still can't bet. So they aren't advocating that.

[@zacharia827]

Agreed. After he's gone, 3 or 4 years everybody will celebrate him. Sad

[@ronfowlermusic]

I think if Pete does get into the HOF, that induction day will be when he breaks down, sheds some tears - just as he did on the night he got hit #4192. The man has a tough exterior, but he's not without emotions. He's not gonna get behind the podium and bash a bunch of people, he'll be thanking the people that helped him get there - Sparky Anderson, Dave Bristol, his teammates, and especially his father.

[@abnushagnasty805]

Thank you for saying this because I completely agree. Let the man into the HoF! Also, the documentaries on the Swingin' A’s (KZbin) and Facing Nolan (Netflix) are also amazing to watch.

[@venalleader2909]

100% agree. There was a time when Pete Rose breaking this rule was the worst thing in baseball and everyone crucified him for it. But now that so many other stars have done far worse, so few are willing to admit that, ok, maybe we were too hard on Pete.

[@jimmilburn1508]

Thank u Mike-great video and review--have not yet seen doc, but look fwd to watching it ASAP--lifelong Pete fan here--alot of ppl cant handle Pete because he just tells everything straight-up the way it is, unvarnished, balls-to-the-wall---he aint a snowflake y'all--hes not from the generation of snowflakes so u cant expect that from him--but thats why its difficult for him to tell any stories to present-day generations, because they expect Pete to say or tell things one way, and when he tells them HIS way, alot of snowflakes out there decide they dont like him or decide that he is cruddy or whatever else---u think if they did docs on Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, that all those guys wouldnt tell their stories and express themselves in their own way as well--accept it or not, thats what these athletes are going to do. In my opinion, Pete Rose has been judged on his personal character more harshly and in a different light from fans, sportswriters, and baseball itself, than any othrr baseball player in history. And i think one reason is that there are now multiple generations of people who know Pete as only the baseball GAMBLER, and the wrongdoer, rather than the baseball player. Its like he is almost not even thought of as a baseball player in the traditional sense the same as way as any other star player in the history of the game. Maybe just because all the other stuff has grown so much in legend over 40 yrs, and Pete the ballplayer gets overshadowed or just forgotten, period! People also never want to rememeber that it was a different time in America when he playe, and alot of things he said while he was still playing were taken in stride, and not so scrutinized and analyzed the way that it is today. Back then, ppl would have chalked things up that he said to its just Pete being Pete, and being a fighter who has tenacity and grit--today, he could say the same things and they would offend the "snowflake society". I do know one thing abt Pete Rose- i am 45 yrs old, and my father and i have been following Pete and the Reds, both of our entire lives--and Pete Rose loves to tell stories about baseball, baseball history, and abt his career, more than anything else. He has always been a storyteller, and he will be laying in the grave telling stories and calling out the chicken-shit-faint-of heart baseball establishment for putting him up for induction into the HOF posthumously. That would be the most chicken-shit move that baseball could ever make, and the worst look for them ever--and personally, i dont want to see it. If u wont put him in while hes still with us, then leave him out forever with Shoeless Joe. The big red tape in Pete's individual situation is that "lifetime ban" that he was coerced into having to agree to back in 1989, with the agreement from Bart Giamatti that he would someday be eligible for reinstatement--IF he came clean about his betting on baseball! And thats where Pete made his biggest mistake was not fessing up abt it at that time--but i truly believe that HE believed if he admitted to it then, that he would never be given a second chance and be allowed for reinstatement, thus given a chance at HOF-eligibility. I believe he was terrified that behind closed doors, that was the sentiment among the "baseball establishment". I think he felt his only hope of being allowed back into the game and making the HOF was to deny all allegations of betting on the game. And i believe thats why he lied about it. But that was one of his biggest mistakes he ever made, and i think the grudge that baseball has held against him all this time has more to do with the lack of fessing up than it does the violations themselves. This country, at one time or another, has forgiven and buried the hatchet with just about every other celebrity's or athlete's mistakes/misdeeds, and wiped the slate clean, except for Pete Rose! It just still absolutely astounds me--but u gotta realize the true reason for it not happening is all politics: as usual, everyone in the establishment is more worried about saving their own hide more than anything else, espcially something like helping Pete Rose, so a long line of spineless chicken-hearted commissooners have followed the same walking of this line for 40 yrs: NOBODY WANTS TO BE REMEMEBERD AS THE GUY WHO ALLOWED PETE ROSE BACK INTO BASEBALL AND OPENED THE DOOR FOR HIM INTO THE HOF!!!! thats why i think the only way it ever happens is if its awarded posthumously--but somehow i just dont see that happening, because like Mike says, when something goes unresolved for 40 yrs, it aint ever gonna be resolved!!! The issue is nobody in baseball wants to touch Pete Rose with a ten-foot pole while he is still alive because nobody wants to deal with him--i dont think anybody knows how to take him, or understands how to take him--so instead they take the coward's way out: they just dont deal with him at all. And just think about for a minute what that has done to this man for the last 40 yrs--i know he caused his own mistakes and set his sufferings in motion with his own actions--but think if it was yourself, and your own life's blood and your own life's work were held hostage by the establishment from the mistakes that u made FOREVER---thats the same as never getting another chance to rectify or atone for your mistakes. I dont think enough ppl look at Pete's life story thru that lens and think abt "what if it were me?" Its so easy to pass the judgment on to someone else. Pete Rose's life story is the mirror image of the way ppl are dealt with in society today if they cross that establishment line: they are immediately cancelled out, never forgiven, and never allowed back in. And they either never receive their opportunity to explain their side of the story, or they are just already personally disliked because they havent been kissing that butt, so theyre out like yesterdays trash..... And decades' worth of baseball commissionrrs have taken this chicken-shit approach and holier-than-thou attitude towards Pete, starting with Fay Vincent, who was Bart Giamatti's "yes man", then two-faced, phony, fraud, do-gooder Bud Selig who has never made a mistake in his life, all the way to present-day Rob Manfredd--and hes REALLY the one who should have done something about this, but im telling you, he doesnt want that on his legacy, he doesnt want to be remembered as the guy who was responsible for allowing Pete Rose back into baseball!!!! Nor does anybody else. Its all politics, just like everything else. Pete represents too much of a Trumpian image to the press and to the establishment, and THATS why they dont want him back in. I have always said the worst thing that ever happened to Pete Rose was Bart Gimatti dying 10 days after he and Pete signing the agreement that had a clause in it from Giamatti that promised Rose a chance at reinstatement sometime in the future. And its honestly a crime that that was never honored by somebody--nobody had balls enough to step up and honor it. Too worried about their own ass. The problem with Pete was that he didnt come across as a sympathetic figure--he has never come across as someone anyone wanted to help, which is sad--but he didnt want sympathy or charity--all he wanted was to have his case dealt with fairly. Nobody stepped up to help him, and thats rare, and was so even in those days, but especially TODAY!!! And then all these so-called media people talk about what a sad state his life is in today--well i ask u again, how would you feel if it was YOU????? MIKE, Im with u, put Pete and all of those other guys like Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire in the HOF, because based on what they all accomplished ON THE FIELD, they all have earned their path there. So put them all in or not at all!!! And one last thing abt Pete: ppl always obsess over how he talks abt nothing but his own individual stats--but those individual stats contributed to a very large amount of team success in Pete's career!! Pete was the ultimate teammate, he wanted to win, more than anything, and what more can u ask for from a teammate who just wants to win as many games as possible? And by accoomplishihg the individual goals he set for himself and took grief for--200 hits, 100 runs scored, and a .300+ avg each season--thats going to win u alot of ballgames and put ur team in playoff contention every year! The Pete Rose case is the biggest hypocrisy in the history of sports. The truth is he was hated by a generation of future billionaire baseball bureaucrats during his playing career, and when the chance came for them to hand out only the second individual death penalty in baseball history to HIM???? THEY JUMPED ALL OVER IT!!!!!

[@CapoKabar]

As a player, Pete would crush everyone nowadays. He knew how to win. HOF shouldve happened decades ago. There are some assholes who have a vendetta against him and its clear.

[@84tand]

If Pete Rose just came clean from the get go I think he’d be in. For years he denied betting at all. And then he said he bet on sports, but not baseball to finally admitting he bet on baseball as well.

[@MuleFace100]

I'm with you on Pete Rose, but I must correct you about Ty Cobb - I recommend the book Ty Cobb: A Terrible Beauty, by Charles Leerhsen, who investigated the most negative claims about Cobb & discovered their roots were primarily in an opportunistic sports writer who literally made shit up to sell a Cobb biography after he died. It's a great read - he's a fascinating character & certainly not perfect, but nowhere near the legends with the negative crap.

[@CapoKabar]

This is true. I lived around his hometown and everyone said the writer was full of shit

[@briteskin]

I never really watched baseball as a kid. It was the days before cable tv and you could only watch local teams. My kindergarten teacher was a big fan of baseball and told us there is this new expansion team and it needed fans. So I have been a life long Toronto Blue Jays fan. I didn't start watching some until Billy Ball happened and gave some excitement to the A's. I did collect the cards though. With all the special accomplishment cards Pete Rose had and the action caught in those cards he stood out. So was a bit of a fan and look forward to getting his cards. Still to this day don't exactly understand the betting he was doing and whether he was throwing games because he was a coach/manager at the time, I think. If it is a Black Sox like thing. I understand but always seemed like a political thing. It also seems like the MLB is trying to stand out as being tough when you see some of the stuff happening in the NFL without real lasting repercussions it makes the league look like professional wrestling sometimes.

[@RonSM2112]

Agreed, Mike. The HBO series was great. But some of the sports writers interviewed came across as very pompous and smug.

[@BobInKC]

You make some great points, Mike.

[@16Bit_Dad]

The mlb commissioner was the only thing stopping him being on the ballot for years. I don’t think one person should have that much power over the sport.

[@mikesmediareviews3925]

Manfred is the worst, but Selig was no prize jewel.

[@anthonym.7653]

Started watching baseball in the early 70's and Rose was always fun to watch. Played hard.

[@jonskogen9477]

If it’s really about being the best players of all time, it’s impossible to leave this man out.

[@Kamakazi152.]

I'll have to watch the documentary but I agree 100%. Pete Rose for Baseball HOF. Man the hall has shafted some people for BS reasons and it's a shame.

[@thelastancient]

Hey Mike, I completely agree with almost everything you said. Pete earned his spot in the hall, no matter what he has done/will do. Pete is a massively flawed person who I don't know if he ever tells the full truth, but that is completely irrelevant. I have to push back on a unrelated comment you said at the end of the video though. For some reason, and I don't fully understand why there is just a consensus almost across the board that Ty Cobb was a piece of human garbage as you said. For some reason, even though so much of the demonstrably untrue or extremely exaggerated attacks on him have been disproved, it's the myth that sticks. Was he a perfect person or a saint? Absolutely not. But, for example, Rogers Hornsby and Tris Speaker were, if not members of the KKK, were affiliated with them. And you will literally never see anyone call out them when they want to point to pieces of human garbage who are in the hall of fame because they were good players, not good men. Whether it's Field of Dreams (my favorite movie), Ken Burns (my favorite filmmaker), Cait Murphy (who wrote my favorite baseball book), the myth that Ty Cobb was the most dirty, evil, racist, hated person who ever played the game just continues to live on. I am sorry for the rant. It's like shouting into a hurricane at this point, just you are a very reasonable person and I enjoy hearing your takes so thought maybe you'd at least be open to another view point. No disrespect meant, have a good day.

[@tjo25]

I grew up in Cincinnati, always heard stories about the Big Red Machine. I dont like Pete Rose the person (he was rude to my grandmother at a racetrack and thats definitely colored my opinion of him). However! He's undoubtedly on the best players of all time and true Cincinnati legend. Bench is an all-timer but he was always a bit jealous of Pete because Pete was the most popular in Cincinnati as the local lad. If you ever get the chance, read the book "The Machine" by Joe Posnanski. It chronicles the 1975 Reds season but also delves into Pete's upbringing. Phenomenal book.

[@Tim_with_Tomes_and_Tales]

I believe Pete Rose will be in the HOF. Unfortunately, it will probably be posthumous. Some people can only forgive when the sinner can no longer profit.

[@awizardintraining]

Justice for Pete Rose

[@jasonrstacy]

Not sure he’ll ever get in. It’s been over 100 years and Shoeless Joe Jackson is still not in.

[@venalleader2909]

dude, Shoeless Joe threw games.

[@Lou45833]

Pete can tell you in detail a pitch sequence from a bat 50 years ago but betting I have no idea that was so long ago lol

[@bdaigno]

I'm not a fan of Pete Rose, the man, but it's so hypocritical of baseball, and all major sports now for that matter to be sponsored by all the big betting apps and sites and acting holier than thou over his case. I agree, let him in, and Shoeless Joe Jackson.

[@tomahawkchop7669]

The baseball HOF imo has been watered down in recent years. I personally don’t believe Pete Rose should be in the HOF though. He broke the rules and signed the contract with the commissioner Bart Giamatti. It takes nothing away from his accomplishments. Barry Bonds is still not in there either despite never being proven guilty of steroids obviously. I thought Shohei would be banned but the evidence MLB found doesn’t support that lol. Baseball I hate to say it because I have been a huge fan throughout my life has become an unwatchable sport. More time for reading instead of watching

[@RobynHoodeofSherwood]

I watched baseball in the '70's as a kid. I loved it until all the steroid use came out. I remember the Reds and though I never really liked Pete Rose I did respect his ability. He should be in the Hall of Fame. The Baseball HOF is in danger of becoming as irrelevant as the Rock Hall of Fame.

[@chrisbutterworth3063]

Hi Mike, Read a biography of Ty Cobb many years ago. Have quite a lot of baseball books in my library. Don't really know Pete Rose story. Will try and check it out. Who is your shout for the World Series 24?Love Aaron Judge but don't think the Yankee pitching is good enough. SF Giants deffo not going 2 make it.. Best Regards, UK Chris

[@texaspipeman8973]

Until Shoeless Joe gets in no one should get in

[@bengaljam4550]

SHoeless Joe threw a World Series. Doesn't compare to Rose betting on his team to win. Also Shoeless stats do not compare to Rose.

[@texaspipeman8973]

@@bengaljam4550 did he though?

[@bengaljam4550]

@@texaspipeman8973 Shoeless admitted in court he accepted money to throw the series.

[@texaspipeman8973]

@@bengaljam4550 as we all know He hit .375 and hit the only HR in the series and ha barely any understanding or education. Pretty sure he couldn’t even read and was put in a courtroom and probably coached into a BS confession. From what I read there’s a good chance reporters made up a lot of what was written in the papers. But we all know the media wouldn’t do that 😉

[@joez203]

This was a very naive rant that ignores A LOT of facts. As for the red herring that there are less than savory characters in the HOF, it's irrelevant that so and so was a drunk or a "racist" (whatever that word means). What Rose did cuts to the very HEART of the game. THAT is the difference and I certainly hope you know that. If all players and managers are betting on baseball, we have no sport anymore. That is why it is absolutely imperative to keep gambling out of the sport. Rose violated the most sacred rule of baseball. The rule is very clear and is ironclad and is known to all: don't bet on baseball, if you do, you are banned. Rose knew this. He chose to bet on baseball anyway, over and over and over again. Then he lied about it for 15 years. He only "confessed" when his ballot opportunities were drying up. He didn't call a press conference and take questions. Nope. He "confessed" in a book. In other words, something that's going to make him money. Rose is all about himself and is only "sorry" that he got caught. Let him in and you set the precedent that rules are meaningless and violations have no consequences. Rose made his bed, now he can lie in it.

[@joez203]

Pete rose is the "greatest hitter of all time"? That is downright laughable. Pete Rose is the most overrated player of all time. If you Rose worshippers would take off the blinders, you would see how true that is. Rose was a ONE tool player. The other four tools, he was below average. If you look at his numbers, you will see that Rose was really not that great. Hitting FOR AVERAGE was the ONE thing Rose was good at. Arm? Not really. Glove? Not so much. Speed? None. Power? Downright awful. Rose got a bunch of singles because he played forever, and that's ALL. An average season for Rose was a 303 BA, 6 HRs and 50 RBIs. Those numbers aren't great and frankly aren't even that good, especially when he has no defense or speed to go with it.

[@bengaljam4550]

He made the ALL Star game playing 6 different positions. MVP 1973, World Series MVP 1975. Won batting title 4 times. Switch hitter and is Hit King and no one is close. Also his leadership and hustle propelled the Reds and Phillies to World Series titles. He did things that are not in the box score but helped his team win. For example: In Game 7 1975 World SeriesTony Perez doesn't hit that 2 run HR off Bill Lee if Pete Rose didn't force a bad throw to first base by Denny Doyle. Pete Rose is an idiot in virtually every aspect of life except playing baseball in which he is a savant. One of the greatest baseball minds in the last century.

[@joez203]

@@bengaljam4550 , an MVP he didn't deserve. Willie Stargell did. He's only the "hit king" because he played forever, long past when he should have. Rose was his own manager, so he could put himself in the lineup every night when certainly no one else would. If you look at his numbers about the last four years of his career, you will see that his pursuit of the hits record was pathetic and selfish. His teammates didn't like him. Look how very few, if any, have defended him all these years. Rose was a selfish teammate who wouldn't hit behind a runner and was more about self promotion than anything else. And one or two isolated plays don't somehow magically propel him to "one of the greatest ever." Rose hit for average. That's IT. I'm not saying Rose was a "bad" player, just an overrated one. THE MOST overrated one. Ever.

[@bengaljam4550]

@@joez203 HE had 230 hits in 1973. More hits in one season by any player in the entire decade of the 70's. MVP was close but the Pirates finished in 3rd place in the division. There are many players that played as long as Rose but didn't come close to his hit total. Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Cal Ripkin, Carl Yastremski. Rose was disliked by Johnny Bench because Bench was second fiddle to the hometown boy Pete Rose. Rose has only said great things about Bench and his other teammates. HOF'rs Joe Morgan, Tony Perez and many others both say Rose belongs in the hall. It's not a few isolated plays. Rose entire career was full of hustle and for his team to win. If you don't see that then you don;t know a lot about the game.

[@joez203]

@@bengaljam4550 , I know A LOT about baseball. I will say again, Rose was not a "bad" player but a very overrated one. All this talk about all star games and "hustle" are meaningless fluff. In baseball, the numbers matter. Look at Rose's numbers and you will see they really are NOT that great. And no one played as long as Rose. He has 1,700 more at bats than the next closest guy. 1700! That's three full seasons. With an at bats lead THAT large, Rose should lead every offensive category by a mile and a half. He doesn't. And in many categories, he is WAY down there. Below are Rose's all-time rankings in several categories. Runs-6 Total bases-9 Walks 14 XBH-30 (the all-time hits leader ranks only 30th in extra base hits) WAR-40 RBI-104 BA-178 OBP-229 Stolen bases-370 HR-544 OPS-638 Slugging-NOT in the top thousand! Again, keep in mind that he had 1,700 more chances to create offensive numbers than the SECOND place guy. Keeping it in this proper context, his all-time rankings are very inadequate. Rose was a ONE tool player. Of the five tools-hitting, power, arm, glove, speed- Rose possessed exactly one of them-hitting. In the other four categories, he was not only not stellar, but was actually subpar. His power numbers were dismal. He did not steal bases. His defense was, at best, mediocre. An average season for Rose was 303 BA, 6HRs and 50 RBIs. Those numbers are NOT great, by any stretch. Those are all FACTS and are all UNDENIABLE.

[@bengaljam4550]

@@joez203 He is the Hit King. Nobody is claiming he was a power hitter or even the most athletic. He was a leadoff hitter so he is not going to have that many RBI's. Players like HOF'rs Bench, Morgan, Perez did that with the help of Rose. Morgan was an above average player for the Astros but he became exceptional with the Reds. Rose had a big part of that. The players that are closest to Rose in At bats Aaron, Yaz and Ripkin still would not have had as many hits as rose if they had the same at bats as he did. He belongs in the HOF.

[@sierraduhan1010]

To bad he didn't have an interpretor 🫢

[@Jonpat]

If you bet on your team doesn’t that just up the incentive to win!?