Capacity testing destroyed GFB LiFePO4 Cells, these cells are unstoppable!

[@voinea12]

DCS waching this: 👁️👄👁️

[@HBPowerwall]

HAHHAA - Just been watching videos on that topic... mums the word! I can't afford legal issues lol

[@korishan]

@@HBPowerwall Don't worry, if it came to that, post all your info online about what's going on and you'll get the support from all around the world. Even Luis Rossman probably would step in 😆

[@HBPowerwall]

I'd be a happy little tuber if Luis watched one of my videos - he 100% got me into board repairs.

[@AdamDeLay07]

Shocked that you got that capacity from that bloated cell! I was waiting for it to start venting! I know all too well how much time goes into a video and how little you get back from YT. Usually for me the edited version is around 1/4-1/5 of the raw footage. Lots of time into filming and editing so thanks for taking the time to share your experiences!

[@HBPowerwall]

I have to edit all my UMMS and shots with my bad teeth showing :P I've had quite good luck with you tube but I gave up for a long time due to personal issues & day job pays SOOOO much better..

[@AdamDeLay07]

@@HBPowerwall haha yeah the "UMMs" and the dead space take the most time for me! Hopefully things pick back up for you! Glad you're back!

[@HBPowerwall]

I am lucky my bother is enjoying this process as he is throwing money at it - all I have to do is drive a few hundred KM every weekend to play.. UNTIL i can drive it up here

[@AdamDeLay07]

@@HBPowerwall Yeah it's a whole lot more fun when you're not the one footing the bill! Plus you get some easy content out of it! Hopefully the drive isn't too bad for you.

[@HBPowerwall]

More over its different content and I'm enjoying the interaction here & learning. The drive sucks as I'm almost always in my Mini its fast and VERY loud. Its not often the MG EV is available for me to use on the weekends.

[@MrDingaling007]

Thats really impressive! I've also had good luck with salvaged LFP battery packs from Chinese EV's. A heap of cells with zero volts. But they've all come back to life after a full charge. A tear down of that LFP cell would be awesome to watch. (with safety of course).

[@HBPowerwall]

Seems like they are better than expected!! I need a full face mask & some sort of ventilator to make it youtubie - but honestly just want to send it n see!

[@MrDingaling007]

@@HBPowerwall 😂 Send it and see! LFP supposed to be the safest lithium battery anyway.

[@HBPowerwall]

I think the chemicals in there will be the end of me.. some of the comments have scared me .

[@MrZugzug73]

I am shocked and stunned 😱I would never think it was so safe all the rubbish about fat battery they are pretty robust at least I give you plenty of time to fix the problem in the battery be for they actually fail

[@HBPowerwall]

'they would still get you home' but still scary!

[@kitame6991]

the type of battery does make a difference, if you did this on a Lithium-Ion it would be riskier. LiFePO4 is at least known for being much more tolerant and less likely to combust. what was truly unexpected though is it still has most of its capacity intact, theres a bit more voltage drop during load but thats it.

[@kipdennis3796]

I have bloated cells too running a small house in kenya,got them from a company disposing them for free, installed jk bms and over 1 year no problem

[@HBPowerwall]

nice work!

[@rjung_ch]

Amazed how that bloated one has so much capacity! 👍💪✌

[@HBPowerwall]

Impressive really! I called my brother instantly but he had already given all the old cells away..

[@olafschermann1592]

Next test: discharge to 2.8V, put between wooden plates into a vice and gently try to press it back to original form.

[@HBPowerwall]

I want to take one to the farm and over charge it - I'm trying to find a super slow mo camera to rent hehe I don't mind your idea though and actually might have been a good way to see if it swells and shrinks though the charge /discharge cycle

[@jec_ecart]

Hmmm

[@mmuller2402]

Sony RX100 4​@@HBPowerwall

[@bwobbles2368]

I love my LiFePO4 cells, great example of the safety!

[@HBPowerwall]

i'm really starting to love them.. !!

[@rcinfla9017]

Timestamp 5.55 shows the overcharge damage. You should not have a drop of terminal voltage to 3.120v after only 16 seconds of 0.3 C(A) load. After three minutes of this amount of load, which is not shown, cell should have exponentially decayed equilibrium point of about 3.31-3.32vdc terminal voltage from full charge, no-load, rested starting voltage > 3.40. Overcharging breaks down the electrolyte causing the bloating gas (mostly CO2, some CO). The gas is not the most damaging aspect. It is the other electrolyte breakdown byproducts which are hydrocarbon tars that clog up the graphite/LFP electrodes and separator pores restricting lithium-ion migration through cell. This increases the driving overpotential voltage necessary to force the ion-migration rate required to support demanded cell current. The issue is terminal voltage slump with moderate load current. At lower cell current demand, the capacity will not suffer too much. Effectively, the cell internal impedance has increased.

[@HBPowerwall]

THANK-YOU for the extra information - I need to rethink how I was going to do the taredown of the battery to look inside

[@shawnd567]

This is why i built my packs with lifepo4 instead of Lion.

[@HBPowerwall]

it's a solid reason!

[@justanotherearthling1062]

I was worried about my slightly swollen cells, but I see that it is fine. Thanks for the video.

[@HBPowerwall]

hard to say they are 'fine' chemical things would have happened beyond my experience or knowledge

[@justanotherearthling1062]

@@HBPowerwall I would love to see what happened to the cells that were compressed. I watched those when I bought my cells, but I decided against compressing it. The cells seem to want to expand, so blocking the expansion probably kills the cells after a while?

[@HBPowerwall]

I think it would blow the seal at the top faster? Well thats just what i think

[@richardriehle4159]

i would use 'em for storage in a separate location . surprised they tested as well as they did . probably going to have a lower cycle count.

[@HBPowerwall]

Done right they would still get you out of trouble!

[@ramjet4025]

I Love your i-Charger that counts the amp hours into the battery. Its amazing to see power in to power out efficiency especially when using solar or where you need the best ratio of power out to power in. I like using SAFT aircraft ni-cad batteries, amazing power. Not as good as Lithium but very good value when they batteries are cheap or free

[@HBPowerwall]

IChargers are awesome, i've always loved them - Cheap/Free batteries are the best no matter the quality!

[@MiniLuv-1984]

Prismatic LiFePO4 are certainly kicking reliability/robustness arse!

[@HBPowerwall]

Sure seems so!

[@slavric]

Awesome experiment, I'm very surprised. I wonder what is the internal resistance of the cell now.

[@HBPowerwall]

I did try getting IR measurements but either my 'tool' is broken or I was doing it wrong

[@z.Sh4ped.Po0Tin]

Nice video =] I've seen LFP battery teardown in similar condition - I would not expect anything spectacular, just when internal pouch cells are open and internal circuit shorted the electrolyte will start burning. Opening the metal case on top would not cause popping or bursting in flames. Putting a nail through the pouch if circuit is shorted would cause smoke and then flames if the battery is charged. When discharged - maybe some smoke.

[@HBPowerwall]

I have not looked if others have done a tare down video - I'm scared to do it but still want too hehe

[@AveRage_Joe]

Whoa... Unexpected!

[@HBPowerwall]

Very much so!

[@offgridwanabe]

Curiosity killed the cat yaya satisfaction brought it back lol very interesting

[@HBPowerwall]

these cats seem to have a few lifes left

[@retrozmachine1189]

Do you have an internal resistance meter? I'd be interesting to see if Mr Puffy being bloated with all that gas has affected his ability to deliver.

[@HBPowerwall]

I do, I videoed testing the IR but seems my meter was giving me wildly different results every test. I should release the longer format of this video with more of the cut footage.

[@sanphir3]

​​@@HBPowerwall You should *always* release longer videos 😂 your content is epic and the more of it I see, the happier I am!

[@HBPowerwall]

I have to start doing longer format content on the second channel ...

[@jec_ecart]

Amazing.

[@HBPowerwall]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@the-fighters-club]

LiFePo is the way to go

[@HBPowerwall]

for sure

[@teardowndan5364]

I wasn't expecting a bloated battery to have nearly full capacity without extra work. The battery in my booster pack has gone bloaty and whenever I need to use them, I need to compress the cells between steel plates in a vice to get any meaningful current in/out.

[@HBPowerwall]

well it appears too under a small load - but this and other posts have given me an idea to retest

[@sanphir3]

All that prep for a massive uncontrollable battery fire 🔥🔥 but where was the bbq meat to grill on it?

[@HBPowerwall]

It was resting on the kitchen bench getting up to room temp while I was waiting - I was very disappointed..

[@retrozmachine1189]

They sure unstoppable, and the fire will be too.

[@HBPowerwall]

I want to try make them catch fire - it'll take a bit to work out how and where but REALLY want to try

[@barryrochford6806]

Check the polarity of the aluminum case

[@HBPowerwall]

will do..

[@Poundy]

some serious bloat on that puppy !

[@patrickmclaughlin6013]

Maybe Big Clive will take it apart. Might be really dangerous to ship it to him though.

[@mannyfragoza9652]

Bloated doesn't mean a dead battery. Good to know.

[@HBPowerwall]

Doesn't mean safe battery though!

[@mannyfragoza9652]

@@HBPowerwall true

[@5nowChain5]

Slowly Compress it back to original shape whilst charging/discharging. OH have you Pets? Have one wander through the video. Cats are the Algorythms fav pet. Maybe a koala as ur in Australia😂

[@HBPowerwall]

I want to pull it apart how it is too see the shape of the internals hehe - Have a cat she isn't allowed in my workshop

[@Jayamen2]

I made solar panels for home 24 hours use 20mah eve lifepo4 battery😊

[@HBPowerwall]

NICE!

[@zuluwars2996]

Just goes to show the old LFP battery is way safer than most people understand. If it does go it'll just vent out the top.. think the temp goes to like 270f or c can't recall which. So wouldn't bother opening it up it's just a roll within an electrolyte... but that's up to u... lol

[@HBPowerwall]

I would like to open it just for shits n giggles, be nice to see how it puffs up. It just looks hydro formed.

[@magicmanspaz]

GFB cells are tough as hell I have seen other examples of gfb cells being abused and they keep going.

[@HybridShedIraq]

I have bloated cells just like those I didn't discover until the battery started disconnecting at 50%. I don't know why it happened I never used them without bms nor charged them past 55v I think random bad cells from factory REPT, though the capacity was only 140AH from 280ah cell

[@laser-sj]

PLEASE .... hammer a nail through this battery after fully charging it and video it . 😂

[@HBPowerwall]

OOh I assure you THAT was the plan hehe and still is! I have a few batteries - do one flat, half and full voltage! Over charge another one till destruction, planned to even shoot one if we can get the permit lol The disappointment of seeing such a high capacity changed the focus of the video -

[@ahaveland]

Don't open it - the electrolyte isn't good for you, and probably contains forever perfluoro compounds. By all means use it outside for a project, but it is still has significant scrap value for recycling now or in the future when they can process the electrolyte safely.

[@HBPowerwall]

BUT pete wants to play lol I need to do more research first

[@john0270]

Also like to know how they would behave if lifepo4 is charged below freezing.

[@HBPowerwall]

Be harder to test that here in Australia

[@ursodermatt8809]

what climate are you in? can you test your lifepo4's? i really want to now what happens when you are going to charge them at -10C!

[@HBPowerwall]

geesh I don't have anything that'll do 10c at 3.6v

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@HBPowerwall i was referring to john 0270 and i was referring to -10Celsius not the C rate. i was just thinking, if somebody has an old freezer ..............

[@HBPowerwall]

arrr now it makes sense! hehe

[@nucleochemist]

If I had a old shed on a remote farm site away from my house and garage it might be worth using some large damaged cells like this, but for anyone else the risk should be unacceptable. Any Li-chemistry battery I find with physical damage or exhibits any strange testing result is immediately removed from service and later disposed. Its not worth the risk. Many serious commercial scale storage fires occur with LFP batteries, "safer does not mean safe".

[@HBPowerwall]

With the right location & nothing else they would still store useable energy - but I'd still be super concerned for safety

[@RobinRastle]

Where's the evidence about lfp fires - key words to goggle links (you cant put urls on YT

[@terrya6486]

That's crazy

[@HBPowerwall]

sure is

[@terrya6486]

What's the part number on your infrared camera there ?

[@HBPowerwall]

Added an affiliate link too Aliexpress - it's a good unit except doesn't have video record s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DCekSGP

[@terrya6486]

@@HBPowerwall You're affiliate link didn't work. Can you take me a screenshot of the part number ?

[@HBPowerwall]

UTi712s is the model number

[@EjitEnergy]

What happened to the cells, did you over charged them? Was there no bms?

[@HBPowerwall]

They were in an ev with each cell discharged to 0.6v - a lot of errors and bad luck over charged 18 cells - take a look 1 or 2 videos back and you'll see the issues trying to be fixed.

[@EjitEnergy]

@@HBPowerwall okay, I will check them out

[@vevenaneathna]

i had one of my GRADE A ali special 280ah cells burst. think it was because the case was dented/had a micro facture. would have leaked out liquid all over my trunk if i hadnt wrapped it in strapping tape. think it was partially because of the heat wave we had. still a little confusing, this is extremely rare as far as i can tell. the vent on the top was fine, very minimal swelling, maybe 5mm. i was using it in a 4s pack replacing my lead acid battery in my chevy volt for the past 8 months, put around 25k miles on it lol. was also being charged from a roof mount solar system through an mppt. no bms, just an active balancer. i fiddeled with the charging settings and forgot about it, but who knows. got a full refund lol

[@HBPowerwall]

If you got a refund that's a win! Looking at the hydro forming going on with this cell with out its blue wrap, the slightest weakness would cause issues fast!

[@RobinRastle]

yea Pete I guess you discovered how YT takes the *iss - its gets worse as you become a successful long timer like your good self

[@andrewflies9119]

Pop it 🎉

[@HBPowerwall]

only logical thing to do...

[@smca7271]

Oscillating saw ,welding gloves,face shield...you'll be right,just lots of gas,ok if you don't ignite it😊

[@HBPowerwall]

drill small hole and ignite anyway? jokes aside - I actually think at low SOC it won't have any built up pressure - I think the cell over heated - boiled the electrolyte and hydro formed the battery into the shape it is now. I think if I pop a small hole in it first, then take the edges of the top lip off with a hand file or maybe die grinder with a grinding stone on it. The cell might open like a can of beans

[@smca7271]

@HBPowerwall yes think your right...I built a powerwall 18650 from your info,lasted 3yrs which was good.Before I started I tried blowing up the 18650 with overcharging (just for my peace of mind) and it was very hard (stuck it on a welder in the end)...got lifepo4 now and feel pretty safe....great info,thanks.

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks for sticking around :)

[@wrefk]

Pop it, put packing tape over the hole. Put it to work

[@HBPowerwall]

hehe

[@korishan]

hrmmm, 320 views and 57 likes 🤔 i'm guessing they didn't watch to the end

[@HBPowerwall]

Not many every watch my crap to the end - I think channel average is 25%

[@Sprengi86]

I bought ""new"" 100Ah cells that performed worse on the first tests 😂😂

[@HBPowerwall]

ooh shit! did you get your money back?

[@Sprengi86]

@@HBPowerwall Aliexpress special that was too cheap to bother, i just built a ~85Ah pack with an active balancer - runs fine for 2 years now.

[@HBPowerwall]

ooh nice!

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@HBPowerwall what happens is they ask you to send them back for a full refund. but the sending back costs more money than you originally paid. the only way you get something out of them is when you order more!

[@HBPowerwall]

sounds about right (and fair too as a business owner warranty is checked here every time)

[@grant3226]

Open it.... you know you want to 😁

[@HBPowerwall]

Ooh I really do hehe

[@Phantom-mk4kp]

Bloated cell has the most capacity, well of course its bigger

[@retrozmachine1189]

I can see the ads on ali* already ...

[@HBPowerwall]

Capacity should have gone up with a larger cell hehe

[@Phantom-mk4kp]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@HBPowerwall]

YES!

[@yuriykorenyak2351]

Nice tutorial how to kill good cells in 5 minutes. And what is most interesting, why you do it again and again? What do you expect?

[@HBPowerwall]

Great question

[@mikropower01]

The capacity is not good in this bloated cells. You have to make a little hole in this cell and put it in a vacuum chamber, then remove all the gas and close the hole while the chamber is still in vacuum. You can put some aluminium tape over it with the help of a servo. The increase the pressure and the housing will shrink again, possibly you can press it together a bit. The pressure is needed to have good contact between the electrodes, it must be tight

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks so much for that information..

[@tarik20ua]

Bro, this is not correct measure for battery condition, beacuse condition depends from voltage drop on maximal discharge current, if cell is 1C - you should test on this current, and then compare to good cell

[@HBPowerwall]

Yes, that is why I pointed it out.. I don't have a way to test it at triple the rate unfortunately.. Still a cool test and good to see how much better these cells are than my other pile of 18650 cells

[@mickellis8747]

Wow, that's amazing that it still operates. How dangerous is it Pete? Do you think it still has pressure in it?

[@HBPowerwall]

My feeling is 'hydro forming' due to heat? I'm thinking it currently has no pressure.

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@HBPowerwall expansion and pressure are two different things. and it has that safety valve at the top to vent pressure.

[@mickellis8747]

@@HBPowerwall can you push the sides in?

[@HBPowerwall]

no they are very firm - like a hydro formed ball

[@xx-wq5xl]

一点安全意识都没有，鼓成这样还充电，电池外壳要密封不漏水，有条件要加散热风扇防止高温。磷酸铁锂不要频繁均衡。

[@HBPowerwall]

Thank-You

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@HBPowerwall this guy got me stumped. maybe it is just the auto translation.

[@HBPowerwall]

hence just the thank-you.. every comment counts

[@MJ-yv9il]

Pull it apart

[@HBPowerwall]

I agree

[@ahh59823]

Break this battery with litmus paper. Check the acid. Tell us what the acidic liquid is Boil it and take the liquid gas and tell us what it is Please try these 3 steps

[@HBPowerwall]

I feel I would die a slow death doing that - I have NO idea what purpose that would serve

[@dg9bfc]

that blown up cell looks like close to explosion .... wear safety gear please

[@HBPowerwall]

That is the one thing that'll slow the release of that video - I need to go out and buy facemask and maybe a respirator

[@dg9bfc]

@@HBPowerwall and gloves maybe?

[@HBPowerwall]

Yea for sure. 👍

[@Sir-Dexter]

haha do it ....

[@HBPowerwall]

The internet has spoken:)

[@citizensteve6713]

🤣 “effort”

[@HBPowerwall]

😅😄😃😂😂😬😄

[@Mazlem]

Hope you have some worse luck next time!

[@HBPowerwall]

lol 😂