Stupid accident destroys LFP EV battery - total rebuild required

[@kuhrd]

I would definitely slip some epoxy sheet insulation between around and under the cells. The foam if compressed enough will keep the batteries from moving much but it has a tendency to compress and become less rigid over time so you may have to revisit them in the future. It is great to see LiFePO4 living up to its usual safety standards of generally not erupting in a big ball of uncontrollable fire for several minutes once the batteries begin to vent like you typically see with NMC and LIPO.

[@john_in_phoenix]

I have used puron (specifically designed for this) and also tried 6 inch wide kapton tape if the space is tight. The puron comes in sheets, and I used a paper cutter to cut it to the correct sizes. It is not cheap and comes with adhesive on one side. Works very well, but so does epoxy board (which is cheaper).

[@angusmcgil]

i agree definatly isolate the series cells ,thats a must

[@5nowChain5]

The inner walls of the Galvo box definitly need big fibreglass insulation sheets on them. I wouldnt put the big bus bar close to the side. Box was missing a mid bar to prevent cell pressure bowing out the box. The box did not have a top cover with a waterproof seal, silicon dioxide packs inside to soak up moisture and water proof glands or suitable MiL Spec ip47/48 through connectors to connect up the electrics. Great idea though for where to store a big heavy box of batteries and using a motorbike jack to trolley them into position under the van.

[@brunon.7404]

When you can't distinguish if cells are connected in series or parallel, it should be enough to make you stay away from messing around with batteries...

[@HBPowerwall]

Bullshit - I'm dyslexic not stupid...

[@HBPowerwall]

also about 10 years of playing with batteries and not dead yet..

[@brunon.7404]

@@HBPowerwall Fair enough.

[@RanaRao_Chandrachur]

@brunon.7404 Excuse me this uncle definitely knows what is series and parallel, watch the video carefully he just forgot "in which combination (series/parallel) his brother put the cells in the past". Finding faults of others and blaming them is very easy but teaching is very tough, because not everyone has the ability and mentality to spread the knowledge that they gather either by experiment/electrical accident/or from books, but he is teaching and giving million dollar knowledge for free of cost and investing his precious time for others who are new in this field!! so we must respect this uncle and his brother, and remember they are teachers of many people who are new in electronics and learning from their channels including you, and teachers must be respected !! because in India we learn this bro and I guess in every country they taught this.

[@buddha2845]

I think you are not interested to learn the reason and lesson from him but just wanted to blame him

[@retrozmachine1189]

Put some sort of separator between the cells. If the heatshink blue plastic rubs through it's going to be exciting in all the ways you don't want with a lithium battery.

[@HBPowerwall]

that's exactly why I got quite stressed when I saw the welding slag in the bottom of the battery box, I edited a whole rant about how shit it was lol

[@mondotv4216]

The case of each cell under the shrinkwrap is positive. You'll need epoxy board separators between each group of cells in series and between the cells and any metal surfaces. Use a thermocouple to keep an eye on heat. If it gets above 60C you'll need to design some kind of custom cooling system. Yikes!

[@stevenc22]

Agreed. I use some card stock as separators.

[@icereturns7867]

Epoxy board costs buttons and will save you. The blue coating on these cells isn't worth a damn. It rubs through easily, especially if it's on a vehicle with movement and vibration. GET EPOXY BOARD SEPARATORS

[@retrozmachine1189]

Wow, those cells are properly swollen, but not so bad as to not be sold as brand new A grade cells on certain sites ...

[@HBPowerwall]

Best guess is you can make a balloon with about 6 volts :P

[@madsskov_dk]

A feature of a JK BMS is that it powers off, if a cell hit for example 2.5V. So it stops itself from draining the cells to 0V.

[@HBPowerwall]

A JKBMS is a toy... lol That is NOT a "Feature" its in almost every BMS ever...

[@madsskov_dk]

@@HBPowerwall so, your awesome Batrium BMS let you overcharge a pack with a flat cell? Just watched some of the video again to try understand. Maybe I haven’t seen earlier videos from this build and am missing something. I run my house on two JK BMS batteries, and wouldn’t call them toys, but for a car motor they may not handle the amps? Edit: Found an earlier video. Packs seem to be 120V. JK won’t do that 😂

[@HBPowerwall]

The Batrium didn't fail, nor did it allow it to over charge - my brother did stuff, a rain storm did more stuff - it was a waterfall of - less than ideal small fu-kups that caused this to happen

[@Ramjet7777]

How did you overcharge the batteries if a bms was used? Did you stuff the settings or something?

[@silverghost3506]

@@HBPowerwall i have a batrium system and also jkbms.. and other stuff... and i can say.. that the batrium system is trash... compared to the JK bms...

[@eliotmansfield]

gota love these massive batteries being shipped around the world with no warning labels using ordinary (cheaper) “this is a lithium battery” expensive shipping - they turn up in the uk packaged the same way

[@HBPowerwall]

The were bought locally, I'd be happy to guess they were on a pallet inside another box that was correctly labeled.

[@aspendell209]

There is a reason that major e-vehicle manufacturers use liquid temperature control in their battery packs. They are used to keep the cells warm in extremely cold climates when idle, as well as radiating heat generated thru use away from batteries and electronics. The heat extracted from battery packs, inverters, and regenerative braking chargers is more than enough to heat the interior of the vehicle in cold winter months. All that corrosion is from dissimilar metals being used between the buss bars and terminals. They generate their own micro current.

[@HBPowerwall]

We would need it for the heat not cold in our location - it's a great idea but bloody hard to implement in a diy version. Will look into bus bar options- Thank-You

[@aspendell209]

@@HBPowerwall Perhaps you missed the point of how much heat those cells produce when charging and discharging. Most mainstream vehicles use Lithium Ion due to its much greater efficiency. So multiply that heat produced by at least 3x for LiFePO4.

[@HBPowerwall]

well aware of the heat issue, but I've never seen a diy build include any sort of cooling more than air - that said I do apricate your time to reply. Its all a learning curve

[@m210658]

@@aspendell209 but we are talking 100 Amps x 12 Volt - 1.2 kW to max. 3 kW for the battery pack here -- EVs pull 100 kW or more

[@charlieodom9107]

7:08.....WTF???? Am I the only one SCREAMING at the screen trying to get that guy to NOT haphazardly dangle buss bars over a MASSIVE amount of stored energy? Fuck me! That was a serious "Darwin" moment just waiting to happen.

[@HBPowerwall]

Seems like it lol

[@chorisonoma5229]

Wow...... a little battery 101 is needed by these two....

[@HBPowerwall]

Happy to accept advice :)

[@niemma2]

I would add some insulation board beetwen cells, under and around, i use basic epoxy fiberboard. Also would be good that cells are firmly in place so that they can not move. Some times i put 1-3mm cellular rubber under the battery packs.

[@HBPowerwall]

something softish will have to go under for sure - looking for cell holders so I can be a little more of a drop in solution - that plan will likely come unstuck as these replacement cells are slightly fatter & shorter if that makes any sense.

[@georgef7754]

Nothing like a temporary, but permanent, solution. Something I would do. Keep up with the videos. Thanks.

[@HBPowerwall]

I think we will use if or a few hundred KM then pull the battery and inspect. Hindsight is that when packed in boxes for transport each side had 8 or so layers ...

[@RobinRastle]

Peeps are going to subscribe to this just to watch a soap opera of serial truck ups

[@korishan]

The cells moving around side to side is probably not the issue. You might want to put packing "on top of" the cells to keep them from bouncing. Two thick strips down the middle of the cells but leaving the vent hole exposed should help there. This would make it so that when hitting a bump or pothole the cells don't bounce around and possibly hit the undercarriage of the van. This would all keep the wires from moving around much minimizing any issues of them fatigue breaking, as well as the Batrium cell monitors as well. You want to minimize or eliminate flexing

[@HBPowerwall]

Yeh a few ideas have been thrown around my workshop today...

[@johnnodge4327]

I'd put some thin FR4 board between the cells. Also run a length of all thread through the centre of the box, so you can apply an amount of pressure to the middle of the pack, as these cells like to be lightly compressed.

[@HBPowerwall]

Good tip! Googles FR4......

[@m210658]

@@HBPowerwallaka printed circuit board

[@Diy.Production.Solaire]

hello, some advice, look at the assembly of these cells in EEL or Seplos type boxes for solar storage, I advise you to compress the cell blocks with flanges and tie rods with threaded rods in packs of 8 and put flat foam with polyester plate between each cell moreover your busbars are not flexible for the expansion of the cells and nor insulated for the risk of copper corrosion! and your body is not waterproof and too close to the road! if an impact from underneath the vehicle is a disaster! can you put the box inside and in the middle of the vehicle it would be better There you go, good luck! 😊

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks for the input - I actually looked at one of my own review videos for a 48v 200ah battery and its so clean the way they do it.. Going to try make my own version of that Orient Power battery design

[@RobinRastle]

Box not water tight - no drain holes? Get water building up inside? Seen what happens with spare wheel covers that are slung under the boot of older vehicles. Would it be better to have the battery pack inside the van and create another removeable cargo flooring panels on top. Lot easier for maintenance

[@JasonWW2000]

I'd recommend taking those bus bars to a chrome shop and having them nickel plated. That will stop the corrosion. Prismatic cells like that need to be compressed to prevent bulging. You can't do level 2 charging without liquid cooling. As is, they will just cook. That's probably what ruined the old cells. Those battery boxes need to be sealed. I'd recommend looking at factory battery designs or companies that build batteries professionally to see how they are done.

[@HBPowerwall]

have considered the nickel plating option, onboard charger can only do 3300watts so will be fine with charging heat (but slow) I have a great factory designed battery here I've forgotten about - it has everything I need to copy!!!

[@aatheus]

Foam to keep the cells from moving around too much is a good idea. I would add some fish paper (electrical insulation paper) between the individual cells as well. Protects them from rubbing their thin plastic coatings through and shorting to each other

[@HBPowerwall]

Lots of ideas out there - thank-you for yours - i'm like the fish paper option

[@korishan]

9:45 There's a "lot" of corrosion going on here. These bus bars are copper, the nuts appear to galvanized coated. You really should be using stainless steel nuts where possible. And ideally, if you could do it, use nickel or tin plated copper bars. The issue here is that the battery pack gets moisture from driving around and it's showing. This could be why the other pack failed, or rather Batrium failed to catch the bad cell. I suspect that if this battery stays in service, you'll find a similar situation happen later on down the road.

[@HBPowerwall]

Ooh we are having more issues with this battery in the very near future lol whole battery being under 1v for months won't be helping things

[@pilotm31]

Dude, you should to use the isolation of each cell. The second you have to do - you need to pull together the assembly. Third - copper tires must be tinned. And use the BMS. Next step: check your setup, as I can see you are using the 3s2p, but I think you need to use 4s2p. Still have a questions - don’t hesitate to ask. Good luck, I think you can do it!

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks for the feed back!! I can do it, just need some time management :P

[@chrispfeil6605]

Good to see the return of Pete productions here mate!

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks buddy - that reminds me I must work out how to turn of super thanks - YT take almost half of that..

[@chrispfeil6605]

@@HBPowerwall always the case with these platforms isn’t it? Ha

[@HBPowerwall]

Yep they got to pay for that bandwidth

[@Shmade0304]

Love the swollen goodness 🔋🔋🔋🔋🔋

[@HBPowerwall]

They were DRIPPING with excitement!

[@edc1569]

Australian engineering at its finest.

[@HBPowerwall]

aussie fuckaroundandfindout

[@HomeGrownAlchemy]

Something between the cells as mentioned in previous comments is a great idea and also something between the end calls and the box. If you check some of the diy 48v box builds out for great setups and ideas that could be useful. Keep it up. I am keen to see you get the bus up and running. Did those white frames not fit the new cells?

[@HBPowerwall]

Hindsight again - I have a few commercial battery boxes here lol I should just check out some of my own videos hehe The cell holders all cracked but also the new cells are slightly thicker and 3cm or so shorter (hence so much padding with the foam)

[@HomeGrownAlchemy]

@@HBPowerwall damn. That's a tad irritating. I did a battery build with some odd sizes lfb cells and used some thin rubber matting between the cells. Slight amount of compression available but more for the electrical insulation. Core flute might be an option but it will compress. Another thing I have seen is just taping the cells together.. Maybe each 3pack u have make it a block with some heavy non stretch tape. Again HB, great videos and keep them coming.

[@HBPowerwall]

Massive challenge was getting the busbars to fit back onto the cells so any form of taping or compression would mean new busbars or a slight over sized hole. Either way I learnt something new so that's a win !

[@AntonyvanIersel]

@@HBPowerwall When it comes to bus bars, I started using the flexible bars, with vibration and movement it reduces the stress on the lugs.

[@HBPowerwall]

feel free to drop links :P

[@adamc85007]

I would put something like a rubber based product, the foam can break down easily.

[@HBPowerwall]

Yes, I have to agree - compress, if it gets wet/damp it'll degrade not ideal

[@kenlillia]

What voltage are you trying to get out of those cells. 3p 6s configuration?

[@HBPowerwall]

about 20v

[@SirHackaL0t.]

Notice that it didn’t catch fire. 👍

[@HBPowerwall]

I think that's my next video - what would it take to make them catch fire

[@SirHackaL0t.]

@@HBPowerwall Maybe pouring petrol over them might work. But it would be the petrol that is on fire.

[@HBPowerwall]

Oooh I have so many ideas - just a matter of doing them safely

[@RaithUK]

A couple recomendations i would do is find/make some form of weather proof seals and stick a couple of those packaging moisture absorbers inbetween a couple batterys so they can takeup any that does get in as it looked like ya had some corrosion issues.

[@HBPowerwall]

100% have to address that, they also need to be vented boxes

[@andrewmcmahon1]

Australia enters the electric car market

[@HBPowerwall]

and fails lol

[@MrDingaling007]

Bunnings copper pipe flattened in a press busbars. i use them too, but with electrical jointing compound.

[@HBPowerwall]

Old pete would have done that for sure lol

[@bondarenkodf]

the batteries should be clamped, according to the datasheet. Do not use the fixed busbars, add some isolator between the cells, add some spring washers when attaching the busbars to the terminals.

[@HBPowerwall]

can you link me the data sheet - keen to see that

[@bondarenkodf]

@@HBPowerwall can I use the email which is displayed in the bio of this channel?

[@HBPowerwall]

@bondarenkodf yep 👍

[@bondarenkodf]

@@HBPowerwall done

[@HBPowerwall]

@bondarenkodf thank-you I’ll check when I get to the office

[@onthelake9554]

Throw copper in a bucket of vinegar overnight and it will come out like new . A little spray corrosion preventer would go a long way as well. Stainless or brass nuts needed .

[@HBPowerwall]

I will 100% try this TY

[@ratgreen]

Use a silicone cooking oven liner sheet thing as an insulator. Easy to find here in the UK and cheap and durable.

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks for the tip!

[@RobinRastle]

not mechanically robust

[@tigertoo01]

Just make sure you’re not pushing the battery charge discharge limits and the normal convection of heat will rise. Maybe a small fan in the top.

[@HBPowerwall]

That is what caused the issue - full speed charging when the cells weren't yet balanced and turning off protections to allow it

[@recoblade1465]

I use this stuff called fish paper between the cells and cheap plastic cutting board around them

[@HBPowerwall]

Yes, i've used that before - looking for some locally so I can redo the battery before reinstall.

[@charlesball6519]

Is this a 48V system? Is this van 100% EV, or just a hybrid? Or is the batteries for the electrical system in the van?

[@HBPowerwall]

144v pure ev

[@charlesball6519]

@@HBPowerwall Why 144V, and not something like 300-400V so you could use DC fast charge stations? I can't imagine that van being all that fast. (especially with the 0-100km times), or having a very good range.

[@HBPowerwall]

144v is how it was built for someone else, we paid 3k for it, IT's no fast at all, and don't think it would have 100km of range

[@TradieTrev]

Those bus bars on the end look a bit rough like it's had ingress in there.

[@HBPowerwall]

Every battery looks like it has had water in it at some point. Battery boxes are average at best... Its possible its also condensation.

[@TradieTrev]

@@HBPowerwall True as; Bit of a design flaw considering the likes of most EVs are all sealed. Are you using stainless nuts and bolts with dielectric grease does help keeping the weather out. The dis-similar metals does cause problems and worth checking out.

[@HBPowerwall]

yeh have to look into the busbar/bolt issues for sure

[@dtec30]

Um wondering if some conformal coating on the bus bars will stop oxidation not on the termination points tho

[@dtec30]

Unless you use Toyota battery terminal spray after you tighten the terminals ?

[@HBPowerwall]

Don't think much will stop it given how exposed they are to splashes of water etc - might need better front mud flaps

[@offgridwanabe]

I would have to go with rubber all the way around outside top and bottom some plastic dividers in between the cells and a solid divider down the middle maybe hardwood with a threaded rod sandwiched between to tension the cells. You also needs lots of beer lol

[@HBPowerwall]

Beer is the only think I take way from this comment - when and where ? LOL

[@der_bruehl]

Even if the foam was used for shipping - that was just for a month or so... The foam under cells will get compressed - that should be fine, as long as it does not degrade and starts crumbling away.... You will put a lot if Vibration on that foam, so as soon as it starts crumbling it will not take long to rub through. So foam is fine for testing, but I would not trust it longer than 6 month. I would replace it with that sound dampening car stuff, that is more rubbery than foamy, it is designed to withstand the mechanical and temperature conditions in cars....

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks for the ideas, I have a few paths forward I'll start shopping around to see what I can find..

[@pauladams4890]

Seal the silver boxes too…you can see water ingress in the end shot

[@HBPowerwall]

Defiantly been water / moisture in there at some point

[@jarikinnunen1718]

One expert said that swelling must prevent by tight box. That box not is suitable for it.

[@HBPowerwall]

Light compression I think the term is..

[@angusmcgil]

id put an alloy panel at each end of the row of cells and use packing straps to sinch them tight together,this can also help with swelling abit

[@HBPowerwall]

I think I got it sorted in the next video I've recently released

[@allynonderdonk7577]

I use those flexible cutting boards between cells and metal, etc. If that blue plastic wears off on another cell they short out. I too used the foam on my solar cells to hold them in place and they never overheat. ..course that is in a solar application not an EV.

[@HBPowerwall]

Yes not idea for EV

[@Filipables]

No good idea putting the cells in without insulating them from each other and from the case. Especially in a moving and shaking set-up!

[@HBPowerwall]

Yes, but hey it was a good idea at the time.. hence it's not installed yet!!! It'll be easy and quick to improve with all the recommendations here to-date

[@HHalewijn]

This will lead to another accident. If I see corroded terminals, you should be worried because of inequal resistance, heat and imbalanced cells. It will destroy your batteries again.

[@HBPowerwall]

All fixed up now...

[@olafschermann1592]

Put 0.5mm epoxy sheets between and below the batteries. This blue battery film is very thin and the battery case has negative potential. So a good chance for a short! And steel is also an conductor…

[@HBPowerwall]

Consensus is we have to do more than I did - just have to find a local supplier

[@olafschermann1592]

@@HBPowerwall Amazon, Aliexpress, …. Cost almost nothing

[@HBPowerwall]

time costs money lol

[@meccip]

That battery should be waterproof. Put isolation between cells and special paste on bolts where aluminum and copper meet to prevent chemical reaction.

[@lezbriddon]

gonna suck in condensation and the wires/cables will rot.

[@HBPowerwall]

I think you're right

[@Shashidharm-j8d]

goodjob

[@HBPowerwall]

Maybe not lol

[@dare2dare]

I think using LVD and HVD is best to avoid this kind of situation.

[@HBPowerwall]

or not turning off the protection & turning up the charger to 11 lol

[@ursodermatt8809]

mate, at first i thought your brother overcharged the new battery!

[@HBPowerwall]

HAHA wouldn't put it past him LOL

[@batikf]

Worst install of bateries i did not see in a long time and you suprised it exploded.... 😳🤦 Every were corosion, bateries just sitting there with no clamping down... 🤦 Good luck to buying new... Again... 👍😉

[@HBPowerwall]

We paid $3000 aud for the van - with batteries etc lol So won't be buying again hehe We will upgrade them and learn more in the process

[@batikf]

@@HBPowerwall you must better secure the bateries. 👍 Becouse now they are all over the place, the foam from the boxes are not good support. And ridding every time you on a rought street the cells ale all over the place... And the moisture, busbars are all corodead and the resistance of them are very hight.

[@HBPowerwall]

I don't think there is enough thread there to put two nuts on if that is what your referring too - taking the battery out every month would take way too long. My brother floated the idea of cutting access pannels in the floor pan but i think it would reduce the strength of the car body too much.

[@BadIdea1123]

That packing foam probably won't last long I wouldn't expect. It's not meant to be structural. Bunnings has some medium density stuff, we have had it in our batteries for a couple of years now. The issue I suppose is that it's thermally insulating as well... which might not be ideal in an ev Bloody good thing that wasn't a li-ion battery hey

[@HBPowerwall]

Yes, turns out it was a dumb idea - grateful for the feedback from so many viewers

[@BadIdea1123]

​@@HBPowerwall no such thing as a dumb idea when your sharing learnings with the community. I enjoy watching it ;)

[@HBPowerwall]

@@BadIdea1123 I enjoy learning but more I like the interaction..

[@Eduardo_Espinoza]

I know that feeling, and then I just quit anything battery related

[@HBPowerwall]

I feel like that every time I have to edit my own videos :P

[@vevenaneathna]

teflon coated fiberglass tape on the bottom fiberglass strapping tape round the outside of cell groups.

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks for the reply and advice

[@RanaRao_Chandrachur]

First of all Greetings and love to both of you young and sweet uncles(& I'm from India), it seems you have used a BMS but I have one question: why the BMS didn't cut the charge when the battery reached its maximum rated voltage?? (didn't the BMS come with Over-Voltage protection??) because BMS cuts off overcharging, then how overcharge happens uncle?? because If you have seen "Greatscott KZbin channel video" on this topic, he used a pretty good and a lot of good feature-oriented BMS (but will not be rated for your beautiful E-Van, but there may be another properly rated BMS for your taste from this company), I think you can check his vide. However, uncle you are more intelligent and educated enough on this topic than me, but you can give it a shot!!

[@HBPowerwall]

because of our actions it failed in a few different ways. unfortunate but it happens I guess.

[@kimo4646]

Hello mate. I think foam will affect cooling in case batteries becomes hot ..... Greetings from Kenya

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks for the info

[@PantsManUK]

Can you run a rat-tail grinder over those bus bars? (As you show the sheet of sand paper...) Ah.

[@HBPowerwall]

hehe - would have taken 2 hours to do it my way... My brother was like f-that! hold my beer lol

[@rhaut4118]

Why not spray the box with the truck bed coating, to make it non conductive?

[@HBPowerwall]

I think that would just rub off..

[@mickwolf1077]

id be worried about cells chafing on the sides of the metal box too even though the shell isn't tied directly to positive or negative. Seeing the swollen babies like that with no fire puts me at ease using lfp over Li ion.

[@HBPowerwall]

what is worse is i'm working on the next video and doing a capacity test of one of the really swollen batteries and the video is crap cause it still tested at 95% of new capacity lol

[@mickwolf1077]

@@HBPowerwall I got a few swollen ones too and capacity isn't affected much either. silly me overcharged 2 12v batteries in series with each battery having its own bms. i know better now lol.

[@HBPowerwall]

hehe - its a hard way to learn - as long as you don't do it twice

[@5885ronny]

Habe auch lifepo4 48v 45,6 KWh Akkus schade 😮

[@HBPowerwall]

that's a nice big battery !

[@symodlearn]

Where is separators between cells?

[@HBPowerwall]

i"ma working on it lol

[@jasonosler4757]

LFP cells are negative cased and should never be in contact with anything conductive (including each other) plus for proper charge and discharge you need some form of compression. I can give you the calculations if you need.

[@HBPowerwall]

They are fairly tight along the wide surface of the cells, I think they will naturally expand and contract enough to be a nice tight fit when fully charged. But still need to limit the over all movement of the cells. Working on that part

[@toneault7499]

ok pete have fun... think you have a lot of trouble coming your way .. so many thins are bad from the start.. 3x 100 ah.. would be better 300ah one cell. you have 300 amp out old ones.. ie 1c.. and would be 500ah out on new. ie 5c rating.. all the best .. tone uk.. im so glad im only running 48v 100 amp on my trike.

[@HBPowerwall]

I agree - but have to work with what I have - it's a good way for me to learn hehe

[@Z_question]

I've used that foam before. Don't do use it. That foam acts like a spring with any jolt or vibration, Those batteries will have stressed terminals and wear marks. Oh and that foam doesn't like heat.

[@HBPowerwall]

Yeh it was a bad Idea - but from it I got a ton of good ideas

[@michaelfitzpatrick3641]

So many unsafe engineeting errors in constructing the battery packs. Please abandon the project before someone is seriously injured or killed .

[@HBPowerwall]

Better Idea - I'll learn something and do it better .. ?

[@RobinRastle]

A child wants to become a rocket scientist cos he has big ideas

[@eunu6928]

Guys, Why don't use a neutral BMS ( that device that only show the voltage) of every cell from the pack?. Not use 1 wire for 3p and use for each 1 wire..

[@HBPowerwall]

I don't think that idea would work

[@THEZEST1357]

In my honest opionion the solution youve gone with for storing the batteries is dangerous. For automotive use I'd be using epoxy sheeting and rubber/foam between the cells top and bottom. On the bottom you probably want a rubber mats as the foam with degrade with movement over time. Look at the design of tesla packs or other manufacturers. They always islolate between cells and have some form of vibration insulation.

[@HBPowerwall]

I think you're onto something there.. Thanks for replying

[@THEZEST1357]

@@HBPowerwall no worries at all - I've had a peek at your other videos, love the revised farm setup. The Orient inverter looks good for the money. I managed to pick up an 8kw Deye hybrid on/off grid inverter for $2400 from the Australian wholesale distributor. They had the 6kw model for $1500 as well which was great value also. Has a lot of features for the money and is a ~48vdc unit that supports heaps of BMS's and also meets the AU grid tie standards. I've hooked it up to 2 JK BMS's with 25kwh combined storage. Works like a charm.

[@HBPowerwall]

awesome

[@5885ronny]

Was, ist hier passiert die schönen Zellen 😭😭😭

[@HBPowerwall]

They are slowly being forced into retirement :P

[@pangrac1]

Just 3D print some spacers that will keep baterie out of touch of mettal box and each other and leave plenty of free space for air cooling.

[@HBPowerwall]

My 3D printer is a piece of junk! hehe

[@pangrac1]

@@HBPowerwall Then you are doomed. 😜😂

[@boringsoftware2093]

Why 18S and not 16S? Why Batrium (does it balance?) and not JKBMS?

[@charlesball6519]

Batrium does do balancing. It's just a lot more fancy and you get a lot more information about the system compared to a standard BMS like the JK

[@HBPowerwall]

JK is just a little toy ...

[@boringsoftware2093]

@@HBPowerwall don't belittle the JKBMS a lot of users have good experience (better than DALY?) the only thing where JKBMS (imho) failed was 15S X-D

You put these on a vehicle. The cells should not move period, relative to each other or the case. Any movement will result in damage due to insulation, terminals, conductors wear and tear. Also, the BMS should forbit charging and discharging if any of the cells is outside the 2.50v-3.65v.

[@HBPowerwall]

it did, but SOMEONE broke it and continued lol

[@carlh2007]

i dont like the look of those copper bus bars, im not sure how many amps you will be pulling out of this but if its high you need to get a tool like a YR1035+ it will test if you have a slightly high resistive joint, it can measure 1000ths of a milliohm its a great tool. Check out the channel ray builds stuff he shows you how to build these battery packs safely you are missing a few steps. I also noticed you didnt balace the cells before assembling, you need to top balance or bottom balance before you assemble or when you charge some cells will hit their peak voltage while other cells are still say 80%, you will overcharge these cells.

[@HBPowerwall]

Re-Did the build... hope I did better the second time around..

[@MrZugzug73]

Shit Pete you need to stop the battery moving up and shorting out they need to be kept dry possible to stop oxidisation 👍

[@HBPowerwall]

Rip the batteries out - replace it with a modified model three battery and be done with it hehe

[@MikeSmith-ig6iw]

I thought those style of cells had to be compressed

[@HBPowerwall]

some say yes, some say kinda - some say no... one of my subs has sent me some paperwork regarding these cells i'll have to check it when I get to the office in the morning.

[@mflo1970]

Ese baul no puede soportar la expansión de las baterias deberias reforzarlo ,si no volveremos a hinchar las celdas

[@HBPowerwall]

perhaps your right, we have plans for it to happen, but for now battery is going back in so we can road test it and see if there is any other major issues that render the whole project pointless.

[@dc1544]

Where is the BMS? That should have stopped over charging and over voltage. Also quick charging isn't good for batteries. Once you go over 1.0C battery life is cut in half. It's better to have several banks of batteries you can keep the C load under 1.0C

[@HBPowerwall]

Brother turned off the protection of the BMS controlling the charging circuit - it's a long story but it's self inflicted

[@GTrainRx7]

Batrium is a BMS. If you wired it up correctly and it DIDN'T protect the battery... what am I missing? Did you, or the Batrium, screw up? Be specific, as it sounds like Batrium is a sh!thouse BMS.

[@HBPowerwall]

Waiting for this type of comment - batterie/s were 0.6v because they were fucked cell monitor couldn't turn on thus breaking the data loop = no monitoring ... zero issues caused by Batrium infact it's ability to control and limit the charger amps saved many more issues..

[@GTrainRx7]

@@HBPowerwall Hence asking the question :) I still don't understand the answer though, I am clearly missing additional information. The cell monitor you mention, was that part of the original pack? The reason I ask is because I assumed (probably incorrectly) that all the cells were connected directly to the Batrium, which caused my either/or question. There was another stage/electronics between the Batrium and the cells? (or packs of cells)

[@HBPowerwall]

I'll explain in another video - I need to get the time line right for the failure - combination of water (rain ingress) Short circuits on unrelated components and my brothers willing ness to tinker

[@beebop9808]

Sheesh what a mess. Don't know anything about the charge controllers in a car or how they work. Apparently not to well. A good bms on a home system is going to be throwing alarms when a cell(s) are not performing and prevent over charging. Under normal operating conditions heat shouldn't be an issue and it doesn't look from here like there's any ventilation built into the box. Think I'd follow your instinct to put the padding in to support the batteries. Wouldn't expect a whole lot of movement with the cells being bolted together combined with the weight. The foam on the bottom with the weight of the cells alone on it should do wonders to prevent them from sliding around. Best of luck!

[@HBPowerwall]

You are 100% right but a water fall of failures inc my brother caused this issue.. Going to do a video that covers exactly how it all happened...

[@woodzyfox4735]

A fue mins of reserch would of told you that for mobile setups, you do require a BMS and padding between the cells... a BMS woudl of stoped this from happing.. as a cell voltage would of got in the red zone the BMS woudl of cut off charging

[@HBPowerwall]

in a perfect world yes, but shit happened - it DOES have a BMS but water got into the electrics in a storm and shit went south...

[@pauladams4890]

Epoxy sheets & tightly wrapped with tape

[@HBPowerwall]

Thanks for your input

[@Ramjet7777]

How did you overcharge the batteries if a bms was used? Did you stuff the settings or something?

[@HBPowerwall]

short story is water, lots of water - long story is in a coming video I'm trying to get the time line to make sense

[@robert4027]

drill with wire brush works well 😃

[@HBPowerwall]

now ya tell me lol *but we didn't have one with me at the time

[@ReinhardSchuster]

You were very lucky the battery exhausts hydrogen your van could have exploded.

[@HBPowerwall]

Battery boxes breath SOOO well I doubt it could have built up if it wanted to. I agree it might have been much worse

[@Goodkiwibloke]

Where are the compression plates? Automotive cells should always be compressed

[@HBPowerwall]

when removed these cells were not compressed when the battery was built 4-5 years ago, just in plastic mounts, the replacement batteries are a good fit for the battery box and almost meet the compression reconditions (wild card is the strength of the battery box )

[@Goodkiwibloke]

@@HBPowerwall yes I saw that. And that's why I suggested you need compression plates - that battery box won't provide any effective compression. There is a reason for the manufacturer specifying a certain compression force!!

[@boringsoftware2093]

"this car has more issues than my wife" 😂😎👌🏻🌻👍🏻 at least with overcharging u proofed: they are PRETTY safe (not blowing up in an instant) did u compress the cells? what voltage was used to overcharge?

[@HBPowerwall]

I believe they went to about 6 v - I have a few here in my workshop and i'm going to 'play' with them and see what I can learn..

[@boringsoftware2093]

@@HBPowerwall 6V per CELL? HOLY COW X-D the manual says 3.8V SHUT OFF CHARGING IMMEDIATELY X-D

[@mrgreenswelding2853]

Buy some cheap foam rubber mats from bunnings, instead of that foam. It won't compress like that foam.

[@HBPowerwall]

That is a solid option

[@edc1569]

When you catch on fire please don't do it on a boat, in a car park or in a tunnel. Thanks. Society.

[@HBPowerwall]

Do these batteries actually catch fire... I think I should try!

[@angusmcgil]

geez cable tie all the wires ,dont cut corners ,if one of those balance wires brakes off and shorts out ,there is more energy density per weight than dynamite

[@HBPowerwall]

Those balance leads were just temp to allow us to have some sort of monitoring, a whole bunch of supplies arrived yesterday and I'll be heading down this weekend to make the battery much better than it is now and enough to reinstall and retest. It's a process

[@jec_ecart]

One who does not understand these batteries shouldn't work with them...

[@HBPowerwall]

arrr I call bullshit - I learnt to ride a bike by falling off.

[@jec_ecart]

@@HBPowerwall yep. But your fall did not have the potential to destroy the whole house....

[@HBPowerwall]

@jec_ecart it’s in a car. 🚘?

[@michaelmochulsky1391]

You have to change your busbars to aluminum. The contact between copper and aluminum will corrode very fast and some of your batteries will have bad contact. It may cause balance issues. At least put something between the bar and the terminal.

[@HBPowerwall]

Didn't even consider that, i'll put it in the ideas bucket

[@chris_mk5supra]

imagine that with liion now :)

[@HBPowerwall]

LOL NoOOOO I refuse!

[@toneault7499]

go check out with andy.. ( Off-Grid Garage ) ( ill save you peter.. ) lololol

[@HBPowerwall]

Yes, I should reach out too Andy - issue is it's not my car and i'm just trying to make interesting content from it.

[@RobinRastle]

@@HBPowerwall What a cop out you didnt help a bruv - didnt want to get involved cos it would show up how little you know -

[@scoobyblu5815]

If you don't put the cells in compression before you start using them you've compromised the whole deal😅😅😅😅

[@HBPowerwall]

There is lots of debate about that - they are tight enough side to side and that battery box is strong and heavy- you see how bloated the old ones were and only moved the sides about 1cm - more research required

[@dtec30]

Flap disc clean up bus bar

[@HBPowerwall]

Yep, preaty much what we used in the end..

[@dtec30]

@HBPowerwall yeah sorry Pete I was watching ya struggle and piped in only to watch later you switched to flap disc

[@HBPowerwall]

hehe

[@stephsoltesz6731]

GOOD GOD - STOP !!!! Right Now !!! - That "BOX" must be FULLY lined with at least FR4 insulation sheets (Cells NEVER EVER to contact any metal casing ! - Every Cell needs a sheet of FR4 separating it from the others next to it. - Cells MUST be Bound Together with LIGHT Compression to prevent exnsion/contraction and put ANY stress on the cell terminals themselves, This is a MOBILE PACK and Very Critical to do. EVEN ESS (Enerrgy Storage Cells) need light Binding. - Busbars etc MUST be properly Torqued and use Lock Washers and/or serretade locking nuts or washers. - NOTHING that holds any sort of moisture is allowed near the cells, you WILL have major issues quickly. LFP is MilliVolt & MilliOhm Sensitive and requires precission & accurate measurements & BMS / Charger parameters MUST reflect that accuracy which has to be measured at Pack Terminals & Device (charger) terminals and compensated / corrected for. THIS IS NOT A GAME, Your Pack that you guys COOKED, could have resulted in Fire & Worse, YOU WERE CLOSE ! BTW: The Electrolyte IS TOXIC - Handle & Manage that mess accordingly !!! I am now using your Video as a Perfect Example of how NOT TO DO THINGS ! I have been building Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries since 2018 and work with several manufacturers as well as written on this subject (under a pen name). I've built systems for various environments and some pretty darn extreme (Extreme Cold Handling at -40C to High Heat Environs with 50C+) and have seen & experienced the result of "oopsies" and more.

[@HBPowerwall]

After the comments section lit up - we have a few plans - your comment offers great advice..

[@stefanocerna6504]

Ciao ma perché mettere 3 celle in parallelo insieme non va bene meglio 1cella da 300amper lifepo4 e con 4celle in serie fai 12.8volt o 8celle 25.6volt 300amper no good 3p e 6s good 1p 4s o 1p 6s o 1p 8s 1p 16s si good ma perche si sono gonfiate senza che il bms bloccasse la carica

[@HBPowerwall]

space to fit cells I would assume - 305ah cells are much taller

[@rilosvideos877]

I couldn't get the clue what really happened here, you did not explain that part well imho. He was unpatient and overcharged the cells while he was away - bad idea. But what exactly happened here? You must take more care into you diy battery builds, soft foam is not a good solution. Also i don't see any separators between the cells - a no-go! I don't even mention compression cause it is discussed widely in different manners.

[@HBPowerwall]

Trying to explain it in this video would have made it way too long - I've started to document the issues that lead to this failure. As I wasn't there, i'm relying on my brothers description, a bunch of photos and questions on fb messenger & my own investigation. Getting that time line right and making sense of it takes a bit of extra time but well worth the effort I think so will be done soon I hope.

[@rilosvideos877]

@@HBPowerwall you are fast 🙂 You can only learn from mistakes if you know and understand them - so i'm waiting for part 2 🙂

[@HBPowerwall]

working on it ... also 6am youtube comments replies hehe

[@Sylvan_dB]

Ugh, sad battery.

[@HBPowerwall]

hehe

[@MrGiovimen]

Ragazzi non potete mettere le batterie senza isolante tra di loro e sotto

[@HBPowerwall]

It's not a good idea..

[@mbalongchannel3409]

Wow ko bisa pada kenbung

[@HBPowerwall]

VERY over charged...