HD Starcraft 2 Greenpine v "Bob" p3/3

[@Yavin1v]

@TerraceArchimedes i was referring to the auto turrets that the ravens will spawn, coz when you emp unless you are some kind of micro god, you will probly miss some of the ravens

[@hyperforce]

@Maskanders Perhaps, but hes mobile enough to defend them all, And don't forget the auto-turrets stay in place for a while as static defence. Every base he has also prevents the opponenent from expanding which means the raven building player has less bases to worry about. Also, note how he placed the sensor towers so they covered most of the map.

[@Goatfacezzzzzz]

This game was simultaneously impressive and hilarious. HD, I love your casts.

[@fw2k]

@FumJ79 feedback, dunno if the damage reduction immortals have includes seeker missiles, probably not. But they are good against buildings and has 100 shields. The Phoenix is damned fast anti air, dunno if the deference drone works on em. But so fast so fly away and come back later, or at different place. Storm too as they are slow, and only has about 150 hp i think.

[@Rith9789]

Yeah dude. I had thought about this build when I first saw the potential in the auto turrets. Recyclable and it drops anywhere in the game. Also you could probably switch to BC's if the need calls for it.

[@audiogarden21]

@CircleTheSkies Not to mention Ravens can't out run Seeker Missiles. I've tried and they're just a tad too slow, so like you said a small force of counter Ravens could have really put a hurt on those, especially coupled with Ghosts.

[@blo0magic]

@RiverKWhite yeah but we are talking about a random strategy that no one perhaps ever used and to think that you have to fight it off realtime... now that is pretty confusing.

[@shadowonze]

@Conotrant Yes, but the thing is, the missile will just do an area denial effect, making the marines unable to even shoot. Either way, was a good game.

[@ClementIsInsane]

Thank you, HD. We learnt A LOT. You make a great host or maybe DJ.

[@jrodtopo]

@billi23cool23 I agree that he shoulda put up wayyy more turrets. I don't know if it was the total answer, but why not with all of those minerals? He would've at least have had to spend more energy on PDDs

[@shrappy2003]

@JKlogs but that wouldnt work for long. plus he has to get it off before he puts turrents down which isnt likely. he'd have to have ghosts in every part of the map and ready to use them at a seconds notice. so no it wouldnt work

[@VCHCl]

i think this is a kind of game in Korea where a player 1 is allowed to mass only one unit(including basic unit) and the other player is allowed to build any units except the unit that directly counter that unit player 1 has(in this case ghost with EMP), this is to test out the true potential of one unit to the limit, check Husky's recent cast, you will find out

[@kljin87]

Since the Ghost emp is short ranged of the pdd. I think is best to use two or more Ghost at attempt to snipe the emp from different sides of the Raven flock. While in the midst of confusion at least able to emp once. And that's enough for the vikings and Thor to take over or even mass ball of marines.

[@259]

@ellohenry It's very common for air units to bunch up tightly together when moving, so even one EMP can easily deplete every single raven if caught off guard.

[@Spudtion]

@SJChango99 in addition, the thors weren't target-firing the ravens. So many more ravens would have been killed in some of those engagements if the thors hadn't switch to hitting the turrets.

[@gr4ndhustle]

@StarCreme yeah totally agreed... keep in mind tho that greenpine threw alot of scanner sweeps to prepare before engaging the enemy.. so he was kinda expecting Ghosts.. lucky for him there were none..

[@RealCadde]

@RandomStatistics PDD's where hardly used in this match and the few that where didn't last more than 3 seconds... The power here was the number of ravens he could waste away (and he did) and all those auto turrets. I have still not decided if the auto turret is a tad too strong or not. I expect them to be very strong against light units but they melt Thors as well. And with that +2 armor from the structure upgrade they are damn hard to kill.

[@Kayotesden]

what an amazing game. Loved the Raven play. Superb!

[@ray7792]

The fact that you named one of the players Bob in this epic game was just too hilarious.I'm surprised you were able to cast this game without dying of laughter, that is professionalism.

[@WarThemedRevolution]

@ronuk94 Two questions: can a ghost get close enough to shoot a nuke without the turrets taking him out if he's uncloaked, and do the turrets detect even when the ravens have left?

[@FALCO64125]

@ChaseandDonny Can't link the URL, you can find the firewall settings on blizzards support page for SC2. Here they are: TCP 1119 and 1120 for game and UDP 1119 for voice chat

[@chewchoo]

@chewchoo Also need to mention, once he uses PDT i dont think he has enough energy for the missles from the raven either

[@BattleMongral]

I encountered this build around a month ago, but the player I was playing against didn't have the build as clean or effective as green, I also countered it with a bio build with ghosts to emp.

[@jonj]

Actually, mass marines CAN work if your micro is good enough. On husky's channel there is a TL 7 man FFA, where TLO went mass ravens and huk, the protoss, could isolate out the target from his ball so they dont get splashed. It is possible if you keep a good distance away from the ravens so the missile don't instant hit and then you micro your way out since seeker missiles are soooooo slow.

[@RealCadde]

@Zoethe11thtoe Not really, they have fungal growth and quite high ROF hydras which will eat ravens if they can't run.

[@eabn87]

This build was incredibly awesome.

[@cwchanben]

BCs and their yamato cannons might have worked? they cant be blocked by PDDs, plus the BCs can just fly away from the mass auto turrets. Probably get a few ghost in the army mix too. If Greenpine's fingers are quick enough he could probably get the ravens EMP'ed before he gets his ghosts killed. Ravens can't choose attack priority anyway, and seeker missles takes a bit of time before they can reach the ghost

[@PoshPom]

@mgutzzz Greenpine massed up ravens, not White Wine Tasting Sergeant(Bob). Luck didn't play much of a part for Greenpine, he knew what he was doing and it outsmarted the opposite player. At this time that's a skill, since it hasn't been employed heavily throughout the Terran players. Getting that secret expansion is key, and an easy thing as one may observe since you see most players only scouting for main, once that's found it's quiet for a good while in terms of scouting.

[@Jernsaxe]

That was one damn epic game! I've been doing some mass marine raven builds in 3v3, but usually I transition into BCs in the late game, but this might actually be even better :P

[@ricehasnolife]

@Mrvoodoochild1 They're limited by energy and the reason there were so many turrets was because there were a lot of ravens. 30 ravens = 30 turret drops, yes?

[@nacs]

@laneguzel He wasn't repairing them or using the PDDs much because he had like 10 starports and had around *45* Ravens near the end. He knew he could afford it and he was sticking with it.

[@holsson85]

OMG that game was crazy!! Raven FTW!!! I thought about ghosts with emp, maybe...but you'll need SO many and they have little mobility. I would like to see how this build would work against protoss and zerg!

[@Paradiddler45]

@Solidstate89 Actually, a flock of ravens is called a congress or an unkindness. A flock of crows is called a murder

[@shadowofzo]

You need to do more of pine. I wonder if he has any other cool strategies.

[@tbommel84]

@MrSimon510 right but the idea isn't for your marines to kill the ravens, you want your tanks killing the command centers and thors holding off the ravens. The marines' job is just to give the turrets something else to fire at besides the tanks and thors. If you have 3 thors and 5 tanks and then blue lays down 30 turrets, of course the turrets are gonna do well, but if there are 30 marines mixed in then its way harder. And your marines shouldn't be a ball in this case either if it can be helped.

[@MartinSegalis]

Most creative use of units I have ever seen! By using something completely unexpected, greenpine caught his opponent totally out of guard and left bob wondering what to do the entire game. Change is sometimes the answer...

[@Urza26]

@vegeta2040 Good catch... I've so gotten used to thinking that all the main casters are organic (HTs, Infestors, Ghosts, Queens...)...

[@Legiondude]

@simongreve Mass Anything gets countered with enough seeker missiles. That goes double for bio units which they're strong against iirc.

[@eliranattia]

i just love this game- every once in a while a new tactic that u didnt even thougth of works and kicks ass and u knpw u got 2 try it on!

[@ThreeChe]

Husky recently cast a korean game with mass ravens too. I don't play terran, but I love this strategy!

[@mjw665]

One thing I just noticed about auto turrets. When you surround your opponent with them they can't move away! And the people saying mass ghost, Ravens are dectectors and you would be incredibly lucky to get an emp off before the auto turrets or seeker missles kill you, then the ravens would just recharge their energy anyways.

[@ElvenNoble]

@Senojmas19 75% of the raven action was defense, in which case if he scanned and saw ghosts, if he had decided not to engage due to their presence he would've just lost the expansion being attacked. The reason he was able to win was because he kept all those expansions mining [gas] constantly.

[@Meloku171]

@polygonporygon how is EMP going to work in favor of Auto Turrets when a well placed EMP is gonna shut down any chance of laying those turrets, in the first place? Also, there were no marines on the field in this game, aside from the bunkered ones. In this particular scenario, EMPs would force GreenPine to get other units or waste turrets/missiles on the Ghosts, leaving all the Thors and Tanks untouched for the big push and the win.

[@Rellana1]

@TheOdMan yeah a logical adaption of this strat would be ravens into mass bc's. Autoturrets and Bc would complement each other.

[@KnightKiller1000]

@SketchHurricane That might work, unless they spent their energy on those Auto-Turrets and pulled back to trap them instead.

[@L00k1NGAR0UND]

So Terran has Ghost EMP, Protoss has the High Templar Feedback... Would Zerg be screwed? I'm drawing a blank on energy-killing spells.

[@fw2k]

But yet another point (sorry for all the posts), marines bullets are not blocked by the point defense drone i think, but he did not use that all that much, witch made his losses way bigger then it had to be too. And he did not repair ravens all that much either, did sometimes, but was not afraid at all to send the hurt ones right back into the fight without a pit stop first. Hmm, GP could have built a shitload of planetary fortresses too, to make bobs attacks even harder to do. Costs gas to do.

[@gejsiv]

Hmm, the other guy is massing a tech army. Should I tech to Ghosts or Battlecrusiers to catch up, or should I keep massing the same units that aren't working?

[@paiwanhan]

that is THE most amazing game ever.................. whoever came up with this build is a genius.

[@magicchef]

@MariosGuy heat seeker missile movement speed was nerfed in a patch during the beta.

[@vegeta2040]

@Urza26 Ghosts are definitely the counter here, as their EMP would completely nullify the Raven's abilities. One thing to note however is that you're wrong. Ghosts cannot snipe Raven's AT ALL. Snipe only works on organic units, and the Raven is a air/mech unit.

[@GracefulxArcher]

Nice to see a different build to regular. I rarely see ravens in a battle like this. Especially in late game. I've never really used them apart from early harrass

[@cl0verfie1d]

@Assault912 like i said u need to be micro-intensive with them. spread them out to minimise the damage from hunter seekin missile which cost 125 mana. also if u can spot the 1 unit that is chased by the missile, sacrifice it. i never said countering mass ravens is easy

[@FrontlinerCdV]

@TheGadgetCat I would think about going infestors. just put fungal growth on those ravens, control 1 or 2 of them, use hunter seeker missle against themselves. Might be wrong though.

[@leatherjacket9]

FREAKING AWESOME!!! Wow! loved it! This guy Greenpine needs to go head up with TLO for innovation and creativity. Just to see how that battle would turn out and what each player would come up with maybe. :)

[@Lurker87]

I can't help but wonder if EMP would have helped? The raven is energy based, and he groups them so close together... so... yeah...

[@syafisme92]

OMG!!! at the end of the replay when the ravens stack up together, it kinda looks like an ultimate raven. A freakin mother-RAVEN-ship.

[@21LoDown]

@electrostatic1 ghost I guess is more expected to be useful against protoss but the emp could have limited the raven's abilites in this match.

[@RealCadde]

@S0undBite Why not get a ghost and one for backup just in case to emp the ravens?

[@Xyos212]

@danm966 Its easy to see alternate ways to win when your watching, but playing in real time is totally different. People forget, are pressured, etc.

[@Tyfyh]

@virgozero no. 300 marines total. In small groups with stim. Even if he launches a hs missle, losing 4-5 marines won't hurt much, but they will be annoying and do some damage. If you send small group of marines behind mineral fields of each enemy base, you'll ruin his economy (not like he needed minerals either).

[@RealCadde]

@TheVaultingFig Called shift clicking... So unless you are trolling... Even you can pull that off by holding the shift key and clicking around a little.

[@zangetsujoo]

@prempe1 The starports were producing Ravens which can detect...

[@spidii]

@Lanterncorp599 Would be cool but good luck landing one, maybe try to sneak one to one of his expansions, that would be sick. Although planetary fortress + raven = bad news for ghosts

[@haloprince2]

i'm supriesed green pine didn't transision into bc's although he probably was starting to at the end he might have wanted to do it sooner

[@wellguesswhatIthink]

I'd love to see someone try this strategy out with mass infestors or maybe mass high templars?

[@darkgear6]

The auto-turrets were used by MakaPrime on Husky's channel, maybe he got it from there

[@ddandevil67]

@signizy93 lol idra would flame so freakin hard but does this build only work against terran..?

[@DavveyL]

That was one of the best matches I've ever watched!!

[@XcZeus3469]

this was awesome. Keep em coming!

[@TheAstroPhil]

Wow! Pretty unusual raven build but effective in this round and darn fun to watch!

[@Urza26]

@12ock They'll probably be back at least in the campaign for Heart of the Swarm

[@simongreve]

@Zazgar07 wouldnt Mutas work as well. You attack, he puts down his turrets, you fly off to harass elsewhere, he tracks you and throws down new turrets, you fly off somewhere else. Then you just flood the ground with roach

[@Urza26]

@Prajna01 TvT even in the time of BW... is usually about the gas... somehow, the minerals will always find a way to stockpile even for good players. In theory, it's great to just dump them somewhere, but once players go non-bio (mech or other strats) the minerals will usually stockpile... Should have just dumped it into more turrets or marines though. Maybe even some marauders for the environmentalist.

[@HCPriest]

this was definitly nice to watch :D ... in my opinion just two ghosts in the mix with EMP and the red were done for ^^ however... nice VOD ;)

[@40Kfrog]

In ornithology, a group of ravens is called a congress. Now you know.

[@BioTechHazard]

@HDstarcraft you actually missed the only tab i was looking for :( (unit lost to see the power of recycling energy)

[@Bran_Very_Official]

@spongebathe not alone, but if they use emp w/ vikings or thors, he could have stopped him. but it's still alot of gas.

[@zephyrous042]

@ArchNME Seems some debate here... see some of the other posters too... A Congress of ravens is also acceptable :) We don't have ravens here in NY but many a murder of crows... and a gaggle of geese even took down one of our airliners :P (or is that a skein of geese?)

[@lavadman]

@naruto0589 EMP. No energy means no turrets, seeker missles, etc

[@juju52291]

@turbis I would have to disagree. they're incredibly expensive, 3rd tier air units. bear in mind that they're fully upgraded. furthermore, the one unit that could have perfectly countered this build: ghosts. and, as HD pointed out, there was that early expand. if that was taken out it would've been GG. it's just too risky of a build to be considered OP. not to mention that Bob got tanks when Thors 3 shot turrets and can attack air. vikes/thors would've been a great Mech counter.

[@Slix36]

this has to be the most awesome strat i've ever seen from a T player

[@MadDash84]

Ghost COULD work, but remember Ravens also detect. GreenPine could have just sent a couple to use seeker missiles and kill off the ghosts since they're too slow to run away. However I don't know if the missiles lose their targets once they get out of range and cloak? That could turn the tables.

[@elmateo12]

Epic! Great cast, keep up the good work!

[@adognamedsally]

hrm.. I was thinking, what if bob just got a whole bunch of ravens too? He could also get some ghosts or something, but it seems like raven vs. raven would kinda even out.

[@TheWyrdness]

This build makes the mass queens by Fruit Seller look ordinary, fantastic play never in the world did I think anyone would try something as mad as that.

[@iboy314]

Lol awesome match. I agree that ghosts and emps would have been a good counter. I think greenpine wasn't spending minerals on marines because he wanted to stockpile. In case his ravens get wiped by something, he can pump marines as a backup

[@chewchoo]

@Otoriheron i'd have still gone mass viking. PDT runs out of energy really quickly when it blocks continuous projectiles. Mass vikings would mow through PDT's really quickly.

[@RealCadde]

@CircleTheSkies Can't come in too close with a pack of Mutas as you gotta have time to pull away from the seeker, all it takes is one raven to sneaky bumrush and launch the missile close and BOOOM. I would say fungal and hydras (spread out ofc)

[@elpli9]

i use this build in 3s vs terran. it's amazing and works really well with good micro

[@zephyrous042]

@ArchNME - no, that's a murder of crows. It is an Unkindness of ravens.

[@wellguesswhatIthink]

@DrMcGriddle yeah, "bob" really did spam a lot of siege tanks that really only could destroy a couple bases. and I mean, most any unit composition can destroy an expansion

[@brainstem46]

@LulzRoyce ...ravens are made to find cloaked units... auto turrets would kill the ghosts too if they are thrown down fast enough

[@BlackArr0w]

@zephyrik well Bob scouted with scans.. He saw ravens coming! But he couldn't imagine an only raven mass production xD

[@redchili23]

I like how that lone wolf statue was in the pack.

[@fw2k]

Too small army every time, add full marines to the army, makes Aturrets less effective(too many targets), add in armor upgrades that makes Aturrets and Smissile less effective too. With just those two differences would make a HUGE difference. But one note, with all those min, just build backup command centers to just fly over and land every time they get taken out would change things too, but none dose that. Heck he could proxy build marines all over the place, make him spend more energy

[@aleksandersucharski]

EPIC. i wonder when TLO's gonna win some tournament with that strat.

[@seano29]

I think he was just surprise by the fact that the enemy used mass ravens so he didn't react quite well with it. Ghost might be good but he needs a well placed emp which might be hard because the ravens detect cloaked units quite well a good hunter seeker would finish him off. Ravens the advance brood lords for terran...lol

[@trickykid3000]

more mother ship games please, that last one was awesome!!!!!

[@valosonthor]

@cjhui Actually, it's a parliament of ravens and a murder of crows.