He EXPOSED These Publishers In The Best Way

[@heeho6942]

funny how they were saying the original book wasn’t at the same level as the exact same book, they aren’t even paying attention

[@30pranaypawar17]

maybe he should have slipped in a 10 maybe 20.

[@user-manager]

They only care about political agenda I guess.

[@andrewtol8756]

They were probably watching TikTok when they read it.

[@Shinycelebi]

​@@andrewtol8756TikTok didn't exist back then...

[@chibalearns40]

At least some of them actually read it.

[@R463R]

Frank Herbert submitted his masterwork to multiple publishers, but was turned down by every single one. Eventually, Chilton Book Company, only known to publish automotive manuals, took the gamble to publish his book named “Dune”. The rest is history.

[@xemirahobbyless]

This proves that it costs nothing to ask

[@clouds-rb9xt]

chuck ross

[@aspectu3915]

Ok but those books are if crack and meth had a baby together so

[@jlchips]

@@aspectu3915Nah those books are like if ambrosia and nectar had a baby together

[@Jungus1999]

@@aspectu3915We’re talking about the original Dune, arguably the best science fiction novel ever written. I think your crass analogy is referring to the later novels which admittedly, go a little off the rails.

[@brendino7058]

Very smart experiment. Glad he finally exposed them. Not a cool move by the publishers.

[@Light_neng]

Same

[@lilhonni]

Kind of reminds me of how every new book gets that “new york best seller” logo slapped on it. Like why is every book New York best when you’re rejecting writers left and right lol

[@SStrikeFury]

@@lilhonni also why does it have to be New York in the first place 😂 like ain’t that place a shitshow where real estate pricing is whack as hell

[@zechariah22]

​@@SStrikeFury I mean, New York still has a wealth of different cultures which is huge when it comes to story writing and selling.

[@Anthropomorphic]

​@@lilhonniYou're probably referring to them being New York *Times* best sellers, meaning that some people at the New York Times have estimated that they've sold a lot of copies.

[@meganlewis2424]

I know a publishing agent, and this is true. They only read the first chapter if that, because most people lose interest after 20 pages if the book is terrible.

[@Dead25m]

Imagine if they read through the whole book for every single book they got in... It's very understandable why they wouldn't.

[@kinagrill]

@@Dead25m imagine they get paid to do so.

[@angelfox8]

​@@Dead25mTHAT'S THEIR JOB that's like saying "Imagine a cashier having to ring up every item being purchased EVERY time~" or "Imagine a doctor having a treat Every Single patient assigned to them~" they are literally being paid to review the books sent in to see if they're fit for publication

[@AnimeZone247]

@@angelfox8no that’s like saying that a cashier would have ring up 300-600 items for each customer. See how long the line would be and how long that would take

[@BygoneT]

​​@@AnimeZone247Bro that's exactly what cashiers do when working in a busy area, just over the course of a single day and less items on a single guy. Source: I was one. Bad comparison.

[@spliskin5090]

It's never been about quality, it's about sales and marketability.

[@stepmi]

Yep, publishers are not nonprofit organizations, that do it for art/charity sake. They will have to invest into printing those books, and they want the money they spent back + some more. And consumers would prefer books that either written by someone already famous or are incredibly good from the start. If all the good parts are right in the end - chances that someone will buy it are tiny - therefore no publisher will bother reading every manuscript they got to the end, because book buyers won't either.

[@pixelboy7654]

Exactly, the same of music, games and art. This system has to change and throw out these crooked money lenders.

[@Mrhatman124]

​@@pixelboy7654 what about me? I have low quality animations

[@chupitheslug]

They assume what sells and is marketable.

[@notproductiveproductions3504]

And that’s why I get most of my reading from subtitles on movies

[@starrynight899]

Imagine how many masterpieces got rejected this way...

[@Misael_DaVinci]

Countless

[@soundrogue4472]

We have self publishing now a days. Edit: publishers are risk adverse now a days, if you go a publisher route you will be getting someone who wants something safe and watered down.

[@wordsculpt]

​@@soundrogue4472That is not a valid argument. Actual publishers pay the authors, self publishing, generally known as "vanity press", require the author to pay THEM!

[@Bundalaba]

But they would publish the book MEOW ...

[@georgefairweather1990]

​@wordsculpt Vanity presses and self publishing aren't the same thing at all.

[@d.geodraxarehal20goldenbir35]

Reminds me of that social experiment of the Fake Wine that won an entire competition when it was only some random store wine with some fancy labels to make it look rich.

[@LaziesTheAtsumuSera]

Andy covered that too in a different short, by the way

[@KenikoB]

Not sure if it's the same experiment but I've also heard it as they put the same wine into two bottles and the expensive-looking one was praised while the cheap-looking one wasn't

[@Ezra6942.1]

​@@KenikoByeah and it was with professional wine tasters as well

[@absoliutenuds]

It wasn't fake wine. It was real box wine.

[@adamgreyskul678]

You're almost always paying for the label. Not the quality. Example. I'm sure you've heard of Fogo de Chao? Super expensive Brazilian BBQ. There was a local place, arguably better food, but at the very least equal quality, a THIRD of the cost. All people were paying for was the name.

[@tmacattack8302]

Makes you wonder how some authors hit a level of fame in the first place

[@Lostboy811]

The first step is publishing to magazines and even sending fanfic to authors who you based your fanfic on. You see compilation some authors then create publishing it under their name with their short stories in it sometimes with a bit of editing and with the original authors permission a lot of names got started by being recognized by famous authors. If not self publishing becomes easier so most go that route

[@ZaChemas]

@@UserUser-zc6fx Not only that, most 'bestsellers' now are massively bought by the author's family to boost their sales, that's why almost every book now is 'bestseller'

[@N4CR]

the same people run that industry as the media/bank/tax system so yeah no points for figuring that out.

[@Verifiedoopsie]

Gotta go to the diddy party and sell your soul. Kinda wonder who “book publishing Diddy” is?🧐

[@Cheshyre.]

Exactly. I'm struggling with that, now. Readers LOVE my novel, the agents, however, can't be arsed.

[@ivanangelov8825]

Whenever I thought of writing a book, I knew that whatever the book is, I'll have to pay for it to be published. Relying on someone's good will and competence can get you nowhere.

[@HobbyVolt]

I will say that honestly, a "good ending" doesn't mean it's a good book worth publishing.

[@kinghotcoc0]

He's saying that they didn't even bother reading the end of the book.

[@KpopZuko]

@@kinghotcoc0 yeah, but why do I care how good the ending is if I can’t even get past the first 20 pages?

[@Cajaquarius]

True, but the fact he submitted a famous already marketable book and it got rejected because he wasn't already famous is the real tell. I get it. This is late stage capitalism and money is God and will be for at least a few more decades before the system collapses. Stick a famous guys name on a book and it sells more.

[@KpopZuko]

@@Cajaquarius god I hate being alive in this timeline.

[@pathfinderlight]

@@KpopZuko The same publishers also rejected a book that had actually been published and won an award, which supposedly objectively makes the book good. Dude proved the publishing industry are frauds.

[@samajamawama]

there should be a wall of fame for people like this

[@sxnctvm]

and a wall of shame for people like those publishers

[@dime-a-thousand8002]

A Wall of Fame for people who prove other people BS like the guy who entered a wine contest with the cheapest one he could find

[@TahtahmesDiary]

So where are they finding writers if they are just auto rejecting submissions? Do publishers typically reach out to people and just ignore people who reach out to them?

[@mandy8558]

Nowadays a lot of writers get fame through other means first (for example, Naomi Novik was a very prolific fanfiction writer before publishing her first novel) or by self-publishing their first work on amazon and using the success from that as leverage.

[@Sintakhra]

Or nepotism

[@hdudhehdhd2222]

A lot of time it ends up being word of mouth, or a friend, friend of a friend, employees child, etc

[@annamossity8879]

It’s all in who you know, as is most everything.

[@Autumn-Muse]

It's possible that they prefer going through agents instead of individual writers.

[@Azun_Kurone]

Was the mystery novel ever published afterwards

[@Ms.FancyPants]

That's what I want to know. He said it had an incredible ending, I wanna read it!

[@lilhonni]

@@Ms.FancyPantsseriously, like don’t even mention the incredible ending if you’re not going to share the book title.

[@Ms.FancyPants]

@@lilhonni EXACTLY!!

[@YvetteB.]

I'm sure it was once he got the job publishing for a magazine. Just look up the guys name it will show his book info.

[@Ms.FancyPants]

@@YvetteB. I tried. I can't find him. His name seems decently common

[@TheSleepSteward]

Dude I cannot for the life of me imagine how many absolute masterpieces of writing have been rejected. Harry Potter is a massive example of this. Got rejected so many times and now it’s one of the biggest franchises in the world. It’s just so frustrating to think about how many people have been denied when their work is likely to be the favourite piece of writing of so many.

[@Dead_Goat]

but harry potter was never good either.

[@dejus_e]

@@Dead_Goatthe author was even worse

[@Xenowsky]

Good to see some of our Polish folks making big careers in this world 😊

[@supipimunasinghe3175]

Wait, Chuck Ross is POLISH?!😮😮 ( guys im just kidding ok? 😅😅)

[@Xenowsky]

@@supipimunasinghe3175 🤯

[@BooksandBuns]

But that pronunciation of Jerzy made my hair stand on end, does it really take so much to look up a simple name pronunciation?

[@abriannaaguilera2123]

Funny story, something similar happened to the Jurassic Park guy in University. His professor was giving him bad grades on purpose regardless of what he submitted, so he plagiarised a paper and submitted it. Not only did it get a bad grade but it didn't trigger any plagiarism response. Don't remember what happened later.

[@nunyabiznez6381]

I read a short story called Jurassic Park in a science fiction magazine in the 1980's. I don't know if it was the same author but the story had nothing to do with the movies except there were dinosaurs in both.

[@westrim]

@@nunyabiznez6381 Jurassic Park went through several iterations.

[@aeoligarlic4024]

Michael chrichton?

[@westrim]

@@nunyabiznez6381 Jurassic Park went through several iterations.

[@alexbennet4195]

Idk that sounds fake

[@rakkis1576]

And the sad part of it is, most of the fiction books that do end up getting tradpubbed kinda suck. Not in terms of technique, but in the sense that so much of what is up there is so formulaic. It's less the fault of the author and more that publishers just don't want to take risk. Nowadays, I've just given up on physical books and am only reading web serials or fanfiction. As a bonus I get to pay the author's directly instead of a publisher taking a cut.

[@thibautisserant]

What about self-published works ? Since the publishing houses don't get a say about those.

[@rakkis1576]

@thibautisserant Those are pretty much all the fiction I read nowadays lol.

[@bremmsparkfist5298]

Same. I used to read tons of books a year but nowadays I'm only reading fanfiction. Its amazing the ideas people come up with - some truly incredible stuff. Publishers have to worry about reaching a wide audience, but fanfic authors just write their niche without having to worry about that stuff. I can spend all day on Ao3 :)

[@alexbennet4195]

Bruh fanfiction’s *infinitesimally* worse 😭

[@rakkis1576]

@alexbennet4195 A lot of them are terrible, but some of them are really good. You learn to sift out the bad with experience.

[@wasd____]

What people don't get is that getting published is NEVER just about writing a "good" book. It's all about writing the book that's marketable at that exact moment in time. You could write the absolute best vampire horror novel ever, but if no one is buying vampire novels that month because a hot new romance novel trope is dominating sales, then guess what? Your vampire novel won't even get looked at, it'll just get auto-rejected for not being what's selling _at the moment._ Publishing as business is always about selling books, not about printing "good books."

[@frankfahrenheit9537]

Sounds lame and implies that readers are a herd of idiots who only read what is trending at the moment? Maybe true for 50% but what about the other 50% who don't care what is trending? I see, since nobody has an idea what the second 50% will read you only serve the first 50%. Got it.

[@lolmanboss]

​@@frankfahrenheit9537 oh boy you'd be surprised

[@CasualVideoGamer]

Then clearly, the answer is to write your story as you intend it to be, but give it a title fitting for whatever's happening to be trending at the moment. Vampire story as you described, but romance is the big thing? "Stake in our Hearts" A mystery novel when horror is desired? "The Shadow People."

[@dannyt4663]

⁠@@frankfahrenheit9537 publishing is an extremely risk-avoidant industry. The vast majority of books fail to earn back their advance, that’s just the way it goes

[@falcon_arkaig]

Reason why you should self publish

[@MortalBane]

Plot twist. It's not the end of the book that matters. It's the beginning. If you don't give a shit about the ending nobody will care enough to get to it before throwing it into the garbage and not recommending it to a friend.

[@ariabritton9669]

>it's not the end that matters false, the ending does matter just as much as the beginning. for example, the Maximum Ride book series started out great, but ended in the dumbest possible way with the whole ending being along the lines of "we have to protect our earth from pollution and shit!" when the book series started out being about kids who were genetic experiments on the run from their captors.

[@Netherite0_0]

Yah! You have to make it worthwhile, relatable, and remarkable.

[@Netherite0_0]

@@ariabritton9669 That sounds like the Masterminds series... that was a banger amongst teens

[@Khronogi]

"Yo this book series is the greatest ever, you just gotta read through the first 11 books but the 12th is so solid it makes up for it."

[@charlesm6819]

@@ariabritton9669 They aren't talking about it from a writing perspective, they're talking about it from a reading perspective. If the start of a book is bad/boring, not many people are going to keep reading and they'll just forget about it.

[@kathleenhensley5951]

I am finishing a novel that I started in my 30s. I have been researching the publishing industry and realized I'll never be published. Instead, I am going to create a website on line and publish it there... giving it for free as a PDF. Writing, for me, at least, isn't about money. I write because I must write. I want to tell my story.

[@user-uk7ck2pf8s]

I'd love to read the PDF when it is finished.

[@howard5992]

see if you can submit excerpts to magazines or create a few short stories from some of the material

[@justaguy8104]

You can still serialize it and pull a House of Leaves, if you’d enjoy that. You have to trick those bastards, it’s basically an entire industry of HR reps.

[@poisonhemlocke]

you could post it on ao3 if you want to put it on a site where ppl can just read it

[@Mr.PopoAbridged]

Props to him, some publishers just think that if you're not famous than your book never will be

[@GokuBlackAbridged]

You!

[@Muninn_og_Dauði]

But, if it’s never tired in the public and published, how will they ever become famous!?🤣 it’s insane! This shows at the very least it’s a rigged game, where the old adage “it’s not what you know, but who you know” reigns supreme or arbitrary likability.

[@Kangaroojack1986]

​@Muninn_og_Dauði it also shows the gatekeepers are comically inept at their jobs

[@SeaDog1667-1st]

This is why some authors try to self-publish: it gives them the recognition to get published.😉

[@mariazapata1606]

It depends actually. Because Im a active webcomic reader before (primary tapas) majority of them try self publish their comics and even their original novels none of them become known. Like i was surprised my cousin doesn't know tapas. Heartstopper (don't get me wrong i like the comic) became Netflix series despise that and author of heartstopper try promote her fellow tapas creator even after her Netflix show became a hit but none avail. And even sometime random like a short story of a author who's never been New York best seller, because that how brockback mountain was made

[@zerogrey3798]

And why Amazon has gotten into publishing as well, they take a massive cut but it allows aspiring authors a chance.

[@robbyrocks3256]

​@mariazapata1606 I've actually seen more success from wattpad stories than tapas, for example; the Martian and the summoner series both had their start there, and both Andy Weir and Taran Matharu have made it big with publishers

[@SamuelBlack84]

I'm self-published on amazon, but nobody has touched my book for years Maybe because I write under a pseudonym Or, people just don't care

[@NA-Not-Available]

I want to self publish books as well, but I noticed that there is actually only so much who read books. Now shrink that reader population down to people who likes the genre you write in, shrink it even further down to people who would bother to search for a actual copy instead of finding it online, then continue to shrink it down to people who would stumble upon your books out of the hundreds of books out there... Thats when I decided to use my next four years of university life to develop a audio book youtube channel so I can promote my own book with a slight chance of getting it seen...

[@mmxcix]

Remember that British/Indonesian Master Chef, Elizabeth Haigh whose cookbook was a plagiarized exact same copy version of another Indonesian Chef's cookbook? That shows you that publishers never read the books before publishing.They published the same exact cookbook two different authors. 😂

[@hijisfriend9030]

Get a bit of uproar here 😂. How tf that shit could happen lmao

[@dariusga6752]

​​@@hijisfriend9030 They cared about profits, and also *survivability*

[@mnArqal93]

That's bad. Either someone was incompetent and didn't check (the most likely reason) or they only cared for profit. Or both. Although, I'm genuinely curious how a cookbook can be plagiarised? Considering most of it is ingredients and instructions.

[@keisuperstar]

i recently read a story about AI-written book on mushrooms that led to people being poisoned as no one checked what the dumb machine wrote

[@alexbennet4195]

That doesn’t show you that they didn’t read the book they published, that shows you that they didn’t read every other Indonesian cookbook

[@rachelslur1404]

Yes, publishers will not read an entire unedited book just because it’s sent in. I thought people knew that

[@KingNirada]

Same, ask any literary agent and they'll admit that most of them only read a page or two because they have to go through hundreds if not thousands of submitted manuscripts just laying around.

[@lowestpoly64]

the video went over how publishers went about explaining their rejections and multiple said that it "didnt compare to the original steps", despite it being an exact copy of the book, not just proving that they didnt read the manuscript but proving that they lie about caring for the content. it's not about whether or not they read it. it's about the blatant lies and disingenuous facade for the sake of PR.

[@Triaxx2]

There's a big difference between: Didn't read it all, versus, didn't even open the envelope.

[@AdaltheRighteous]

Yeah I’m disappointed in the comments lol

[@yaldabaoth2]

@@Triaxx2 There is also a difference between looking at pictures and listening to the words being spoken. Maybe you will get it some day.

[@cyberneticbutterfly8506]

A job without oversight and accountability equals this quality of work.

[@shawnsustrich7981]

I dont know, if the book was bad up until the "awesome ending", I wouldn't read it all either.

[@sullivanko1902]

The point is they weren’t reading ANY of it because they weren’t breaking the seal to the envelope.

[@JCRandom1988]

@@sullivanko1902 Except the manuscript wasn't sealed. The ending was sealed.

[@Lovesick.Sagebrush]

warrior cats moment

[@martinqizeaq]

This kind of experiment also being done with luxury brands that made cheaply only using famous brand name and sell them with expensive prices. People buy them without any question no matter how expensive it is even praise the quality of it. Not realizing they all buy cheap brands with chrap material. Meaning every luxury brands is a hack. And people just buy the brand name not the quality.

[@cosmicmuffin322]

Yes, like the luxury brand "Palessi" which was actually just Payless Shoes

[@LycanFerret]

​@@cosmicmuffin322 Not even. Almost every luxury brand uses cheap materials you can buy at a fabric store for $10. All you pay for is the brand name. It's like buying Jiff Peanut Butter for $6 when off brand peanut butter has the same ingredients and taste for $2. You're a fool.

[@barrybbenson7025]

it’s such a shame that no matter what creative endeavor you can take, whether or not your financially successful is determined by either connections or raw clout /:

[@VoidplayLP]

I mean, people need to buy it for it to be successful, and people can't buy it if you don't have "clout"

[@bibibaksh3156]

You forgot trends

[@WalkerRileyMC]

Gonna call bull....as far as I know publishers generally don't send manuscripts back....just a rejection letter.

[@lsamoa]

This. I don't believe this story one bit. As if the publisher of an award-winning book wouldn't notice that a manuscript with the exact same title is the exaxct same book. Smh.

[@milamberarial]

@@lsamoa Nope, its documented. The first time he sent just the first 20 pages to 4 publishers. When he talked about the experiment he was criticized for not sending the whole thing because the first 20 pages of Steps doesn't grab people. So he did it again with the whole thing, sent it to 14 publishers, and again nobody took it. It looks like he changed the title, which is why nobody recognized it from the title. He isn't even the first person to do that, it had been done before. Somebody had submitted a famous book with a new title and had it rejected by everyone. Also, according to several experts, this isn't surprising. Even people that read the book might have rejected Steps because it apparently was just kind of so-so and easily forgettable. They think it won the award because a better book by the same author had been passed over before.

[@lsamoa]

@@milamberarial Ok so he did change the title then. Thanks for the additional info!

[@frottery]

"what if i submit a book that already exists?" gee maybe publishers would think it had already been done before. the anecdote of one of them saying it's "not as good" is a stretch since most would think it's just derivative.

[@kirkdarling4120]

If they considered it merely derivative, that would be "not as good."

[@Evictiorama]

What he did was common and well-known scam lol

[@lowercherty]

Tom Clancy had to convince the Naval Institute Press to publish his first book. The rest is history. The book was The Hunt for Red October, and the first run was very small. Starting with that book, his books were pretty much constantly on the NYT Best Seller list for the next two decades. He defined the techno thriller genre.

[@frankfahrenheit9537]

Then then he created a whole new genre of u-boot books. Did he?

[@lolmanboss]

Wait, is that the same guy who made Rainbow Six Siege?

[@GomushinGirl]

He didn't "have to convince" the NIP to publish it, except in the sense that he submitted it to them - he chose them because he'd previously published a non-fiction article in their magazine, and knew they'd recently decided to start publishing military-related fiction. Hunt for Red October was the first fiction piece they published, and they invested heavily in marketing it.

[@darkfang25]

He also got investigated for sharing "military secrets" because he wrote accurately about the Floorplan(?) Of a fictional navy vessel that included a room that was not on official record but was on an actual boat.

[@hushabyezw]

I don't think you need to read the book completely to know if it will work. In most cases, even if the ending is a masterpiece of the test of the book doesn't have a hook, people would not like it

[@crowe6961]

If they did not even break the seal, they did not do their jobs at all, and did not even bother to read the first few pages.

[@hushabyezw]

@@crowe6961 there is a huge difference between "not ending" a book and only reading a few pages, their work is to select books, and if the first 200 pages of a 400 pages manuscript are bad, it doesn't matter how good it ends

[@kirkdarling4120]

@@crowe6961 The seal was over the last few pages.

[@mrtoast244]

I've found genuinely talented writers on Fanfiction websites, I wonder if they've ever been rejected by publishers and took their frustrations out by writing 100k word My Little Pony stories lol.

[@UberMangaka]

that's one way to prevent publishers from opening envelopes

[@AdaltheRighteous]

This is completely normal… that means the beginning wasn’t compelling enough to warrant finishing it. They’re not going to waste time (money) to find out if your book *might* have a good ending 😂😂😂

[@yukikitsune7366]

You realize that in order to know if the beginning is compelling or not, you have to read the beginning, right? And that to read the beginning, you have to open the fucking package the manuscript was mailed in? Meaning that the publishers weren't even reading the first few pages and deciding that the book wasn't worth publishing. They were just rejecting manuscripts for literally no reason.

[@patrickrowland3932]

​@yukikitsune7366 the seal was on the final chapter not the whole package but k

[@AdaltheRighteous]

@@yukikitsune7366 that’s not what he said. The deal was on the last few pages. For all of us writing, this is completely standard practice and not shocking in the least.

[@pilapila183]

@@yukikitsune7366 You can't even understand this short and you're criticizing someone else?

[@pilapila183]

@@yukikitsune7366 You can't even understand this short and you're criticizing someone else?

[@shannonswift2233]

OMG this is kismet! I was inspired to continue writing my first book about Tina Turner today and lo and behold she’s at the end of this reel! So amazing!

[@Sarasdad91]

Fortunately, thanks to the Internet, we have self publishing options now and the publishers can ignore new writers and it won't hurt a bit.

[@DaydreamingSophie]

Actually it does. Self publishing takes a lot more work for the author that the publisher would usually take care of and self pub authors also make less money from their book while often also having to pay an editor and cover designer and whatnot. It's certainly a great alternative and this way unique ideas get published that no publisher would take on because it would be too risky but it's not on the same level. Also, this doesn't have to do with your comment but first time authors in traditional publishing usually get huge advances and then never see another cent from the sales of their book and apparently it's a huge issue for those authors in terms of not consistently getting paid. Most can't live off the money they get from sales and need another full time job to make ends meet. Now I wonder how much self pub authors make from their sales but it can't be much different from their publishing houses counterparts, they probably just get their payment in different ways.

[@charlieross-BRM]

@@DaydreamingSophie When I proofed and prepared manuscripts into print read formats, the publisher charged the writer under $1000 for everything to get it into the system where Amazon, etc. could order it from the big print on demand outfits that would do an initial run of say 30 books, not thousands. We didn't make the authors order a bunch of books that might sit in a garage for the rest of their natural life which is the picture many people have and gave the business model the description "Vanity publishing." Some people just want to have their stories in print, publishers be damned. Many were good and of course some were dogs but then 50 Shades of Gray is a dog IMO. The authors saw about $6 on a $20 book. The remittance comes automatically from the printers, we stayed out of it at that point. At the same time (~2007 to 2015) traditional publishing for first time authors might give less than $2 to the author per book sold after an advance I wasn't privy to.

[@jordanious7711]

@@DaydreamingSophie yeah, nowadays can just find a niche you enjoy and instantly have access to a lifetimes worth of books you could love within that niche. publishers could have spread out way more but let greed an laziness win

[@way2dead4u]

that is if anybody sees it. with the way algorithms are built now, it could be buried under content almost immediately and never recommended because of ‘performance’ it’s just the same thing as before, with modern context. the algorithm will only recommend it if it’s popular, it only gets popular if it’s recommended. either way, it’s a lottery you probably won’t win

[@jordanious7711]

@@way2dead4u for a consumer its much better and with sites like Royal road theres always ways to get ur work out there. Amazon throw money at anyone even semi-successful. I only have 100 daily reads on my novel an Amazon offered me 5k for a kindle deal

[@bigfellowjamarcus6271]

Really begs the question how authors get their start in the first place hmm Were they planted? Already know someone in the company? Nepotism? So the only way for a new inspiring creator to get anywhere is networking and or have some kind of fame behind them (like an online presence, i.e having over 10k followers on their socials maybe?) Rip to all you introverts with big dreams 😅

[@dshrecksBW]

Many publishing entities, especially art dealers, have been coopted by national intelligence agencies to launder money or ferry messages. Usually both. Money laundering is the most common though, because all creative works have subjective value. Allowing in off the street randos who are genuinely trying to break in to the business interrupt their cryptic methodologies. Too much static in the system delays message transfer, so they gatekeep heavily to keep it streamlined. It's been this way all through the Cold War. If you wanna be a legit writer, you need to signal that you'll act as a bagman for an intel agency. Oh, and learning acroamatic cipher systems is a slam dunk way to get "in the club." Just be prepared to give up your "first born son." If you know, you know.

[@yusraaa4221]

Not everyone is a nepo baby. But it's a mix of persistent hardwork and luck. But unfortunately large publishers do care a lot about pre-established fame and social media followers. If you are a writer and just want your work published, stop looking at big names and go for independent/small publishers or magazines

[@asterismos5451]

You send the first few chapters of your book to a publisher and usually they don't read the whole thing, if they like it they'll request to read more before accepting it. So your first few chapters have to be very strong. The book also has to be marketable and timely. An enemies to lovers romantasy book will have a good shot now; a historical fiction book for kids will not. So much of a book's success has nothing to do at all with the quality of the book and is just about what the publisher thinks it will be able to sell.

[@vincentlucario5450]

@@asterismos5451they didn’t open the manuscript

[@vincentlucario5450]

@@asterismos5451also, a book they published didn’t meet the criteria to be published lol

[@kmkabir4138]

I'm glad it worked out for him.

[@hippityhoppityw]

"We aren't going sign you to a deal." "HAH, it was a social experiment the whole time!"

[@michaelbarwick5075]

Nothing but gatekeepers.

[@jonny-b4954]

Surprise, theyre not reading the ENTIRE book before rejecting? Duh

[@mollygrace3068]

Right, like he’s not even considering that the first ten pages might be dull.

[@GomushinGirl]

It's bizarre to think that they read the entire submission for unsolicited submissions.

[@SonsOfHllor]

Did you even watch the video?

[@carbonmonteroy]

@@mollygrace3068 this consideration requires them _open the book_ to read the ten pages, which they did not. They did not _open the book._

[@private-local-enemy]

@@mollygrace3068 the first ten pages usually are.

[@PomuLeafEveryday]

Tbf, that's how the books are sold too. And publishers are businesses interested in making money. A book simply being good doesn't get the public's eyes on it. You've got better chances entering writing competitions and making a name for yourself first.

[@TwinShards]

Not even reading the 1st page, let alone the title is wild.

[@zumeraaa]

They did read the first pages. Or, at least, you can’t say they didn’t. The seal was only on the last pages, near the climax of the story.

[@PrimetimeX]

@@zumeraaaSome say that his book was never any good. Imagine if 13 publishers in a row opened your manuscript and read it, and NONE of them ever finished it. Doesnt that mean the book didnt captivate them enough for them to finish it? Maybe he put so much effort into his ending that he skimped on the middle part.

[@Evictiorama]

​@@PrimetimeX also this story happened in the 70s. The fact that the book is yet to be published after the guy became famous for the experience probably mean it really is not that good.

[@PrimetimeX]

@@Evictiorama Its so weird but there are people in the comments legit blaming Jewish people. America is lost at this point

[@Evictiorama]

@@PrimetimeX Jews have nothing to do with this lmao. The video omitted the part where the story stated that the publishers he submitted his manuscript are US's 14 leading publishers. Even if his story was good, these publishers are known to only publish already famous stories in the US to worldwide audiences so his experiment was rigged from the start. Also, mailing plagiarized story to publishers is a common and well-known scam so the fact he only get 1 sarcastic response wasn't even surprising

[@justaguy8104]

Good on him. Publishing is a brothel, it’s legitimately a better plan to do your own promo on KZbin first before submitting.

[@rueket]

So you’re telling me the publishing industry is in favor of cringe books instead of actual good ones?!?!! 😭😭😭😭 _bangs the table with fist_ moment 🤛🏽

[@AngelusNielson]

Considering that the "slush pile" of a publisher gets to be huge and 99% of the pile of them is crap this is not a surprise. I mean, have you ever seen the absolute shit that comprises the majority of self-published material on Amazon?

[@siberiandante]

Amazon is an internet company and it works differently. They want you to self-publish AND invest money in their ads. It's risk free revenue.

[@AngelusNielson]

@@siberiandante Not the point, the point is that everyone thinks they're going to be the next big author when 99% of the stuff submitted is crap that's not worth publishing it's not sane for a company to even read the slush pile.

[@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access]

@@AngelusNielson What you’re saying is brutal, but true. Storywriting is HARD. Good story writing takes talent, skill and just a dash of luck. Everyone wants that Jk Rowling legacy (of big money and success, not the…other stuff) but we have to accept that it’s an incredibly lucky thing to get Now, if you’ll excuse me, as an aspiring author I’m going to go cry in the corner for the next three days

[@AngelusNielson]

@@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access Don't let it stop you from writing. Every author who has published a book has one thing in common. They've written a book. But at the same time be realistic and find an editor. :P

[@ChaosRecession]

Reminds me of "Paint Drying." Look, if you make stupid rules for movie or book approvals people are going to find creative ways to prove that you're full of it

[@MizutamariVT]

I mean, all he actually proved is that they were reading the books but in their subjective opinion it wasn't good enough. His example isn't that helpful cause it shows the reviewers even had enough knowledge to recognize the writing down to a specific author even if they couldn't recognize the exact book, which is totally normal for someone actually reading all of these submissions. He's mad they didnt read his "amazing ending" but what he actually highlighted was that the rest of his book wasn't interesting or gripping enough for them to care how it ends.

[@ralphmerridew]

I remember reading the first part as a joke. Writer: ..., proving you didn't read the whole book. Publisher: When I eat a bad egg, I don't need to eat the whole egg to know it's a bad one.

[@RikerManeuver]

Exactly! I was waiting for someone else to be saying this too. And the other one he submitted, is he really surprised they didn't accept a book that had already been published?

[@RikerManeuver]

​@ralphmerridew hahaha, great metaphor with the egg! Like hmmmm have a swig of spoiled milk and think it's not tasting great? Make sure you drink the entire bottle just to be sure it's bad, there might be gold under all that shit😂

[@zumeraaa]

Yes, exactly. And authors are rejected like this all the time. There’s a reason people talk about opening your book with a hook. Very few publishers are going to read to the end if they don’t like the beginning. It doesn’t matter that the book already existed as a best seller. Tons of books are best sellers-some are great, some are garbage.

[@kirkdarling4120]

I came here to say that. That's true for virtually any entertainment. If it's not gripping pretty early, nobody's going to waste their time with it.

[@johannbrandstatter7419]

You are doing an excellent job Andy !Keep it up please !

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

There are so many great writers out there, but they're never given a chance to earn what they deserve because of this system and the jaded people gatekeeping it.

[@Firey_Blaze]

Wow, smartest person right there

[@Iron-Bridge]

Love how their laziness and complete lack of attention to detail was exposed. Most mainstream publishing houses are as terrible as the gatekeepers for movies and music. Mostly useless and solely for the purpose of doing the bare minimum for profit.

[@VoidplayLP]

Yeah and that's not news so what was he trying to prove?

[@julyol119]

It's the dame as entry level jobs asking for ten years of experience. That's why self publishing became as big as it did, as soon as it became possible. It's absolutely random. It's also like this in the art world.

[@johnconnell4231]

The same was done with “To Kill a Mockingbird”. The publishers all rejected it and no one noticed.

[@HelpfulAssistant]

Learnt everyone was a fraud and he was being neglected. Got given a magazine.

[@privatename5788]

Self publishing is the future. These big publishers and agents don't seem to understand that they no longer have the power that they once did.

[@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access]

It really isn’t. Self publishing means YOU have to pay for overhead costs out of pocket. You have to pay for shipping and delivery. You have to make the books, because most people want a hardcover because digital covers aren’t as concrete and malleable. Then you have to do the marketing and advertising. You have to show people why they should buy your book. Self publishing is a dream that comes at heavy HEAVY costs to the average person

[@TarunKanthK]

May be they rejected his book because he copied that famous book 🤔

[@Seeriosa]

If you can't catch someone's attention in the first couple of chapters, a twist ending doesn't matter.

[@willgilbertuk]

I’m happy to outsource the responsibility of filtering out all the shite to someone else. Especially in this day and age, where everyone seems to think it’s their god given right to do whatever they want no matter their lack of talent.

[@justaguy4real]

Corruption and politics everywhere.

[@classic6288]

This gotta be Chuck Shurley

[@HellishSpoon]

This prooves to me that all publishers are satan and hate art

[@Tumericspices]

It’s the same scenario in the movie industry

[@Cloud8Domain]

It's not about what they think, it's about the psychology behind it all. Be so clever and will just tangle themselves like a bunch of fools.

[@johnjdumas]

All these guys were collecting a paycheck and not doing the work. That is a crime!

[@GomushinGirl]

They were doing exactly the work they were supposed to do - read samples (which are primarily from agents, not authors). They do not plow through many hundreds of pages of an unsolicited manuscript.

[@johnjdumas]

@@GomushinGirl can you tell how good a movie is by watching the trailer?

[@GomushinGirl]

@@johnjdumas Frequently, yes? Forgoing the fact that trailers are made after a movie as a way of advertising the existing content so that audiences can choose if they want to see it, rather than what studios use to decide if they're going to make it, you can indeed often tell a lot about a film and whether you're interested from the trailer. But just studios don't decide what movies to make by plowing all the way through every page of unsolicited scripts, publishers don't decide by reading the entirety of every unsolicited manuscript.

[@RAYDENBRYCETCO]

Maybe they knew it was there and just rejected it because of that AND MAYBE 1 OF THEM HAD SAID WHAT WAS SAID IN THE VIDEO

[@Viper3220]

When the gatekeepers become corrupt and complacent

[@ispeakmovie]

This is EXTREMELY depressing ngl. I’m a young writer, currently working on my first novel. Knowing that most publishers probably won’t give a crap about me because I’m some nobody is really disheartening. Tbh I feel like that’s why so many people just self-publish now. Even if you don’t make much money, at least your work actually gets to see the light of day, and you’re not banned from sharing your creativity with others by a bunch of book snobs who don’t even bother to open up your file. I know a lot of people are arguing that he probably got rejected because his book just wasn’t that good. Or that while he had a good ending, his opening wasn’t strong enough. Or that self-published books don’t usually meet the same standard as professionally published books. But imo…who cares??? Not every good book is a perfect book. Not every beautiful piece of artwork is a masterpiece! If you are truly passionate about what you create, just create! It reminds me a lot of how some farmers will just toss away a perfectly edible piece of fruit or vegetable just because it’s a little misshapen or discolored. You can still eat it. It’s still good for you. It probably still tastes just as delicious. Like…why let so much creativity go to waste? That’s so sad. I say if someone else won’t publish your book, publish it yourself.

[@Cursedpeopleakajuice]

First try writing it online like on webnovel

[@AryanMahipal]

Someone should send an article to this guy as a social experiment

[@brendabadih8855]

Same for "Confederacy of Dunces". I recommend it.

[@hunterkline7972]

Wow, I feel a sinking feeling in my stomach thinking about all the great authors who must’ve been rejected. So sad.

[@saophiahcm]

Or maybe his first few pages were shite?

[@rsoeykitkat]

This is how I imagine New York Times ranks their books except the opposite "This book is garbage! NEW YORK TIMES BEST SELLER!!!!"

[@westrim]

It's... literally a sales list. Of books that sold. It's in the name.

[@Wintercourse]

Just put a picture of Kamala on it and it will be a best seller no matter what.

[@butter_0021]

Wario World is the reason I’ve grew to love Wario. I never really cared for him when I was younger seeing him as evil Mario so I must dislike him, and then seeing him in a game where he runs around pile-driving his enemies was the most insane thing I have ever seen. Peak character.

[@geraldstiling3735]

Jk Rowling had to self publish her Harry potter 📚 books...One publisher even threw away🗑️ a signed hardback copy ..later worth £45k

[@james14294]

if they didnt like it before the end, why would they read it to the end, the experiment feels flawed. Not saying the publishers are innocent, just that the experiment seems set up in such a way to get the result he wanted

[@crystalm6692]

That’s what I was thinking. Publishers get so many submissions, they don’t have the time to read the entirety of every manuscript. If you can’t convince them in the first 100 pages or less, you’re getting rejected

[@james14294]

​@@crystalm6692 that being said, many publishers supposedly dont read any (or so little they may as well have just read the blurb). Rejecting after a 100 pages makes sense, even if "it gets good after that" it just means they might need to improve the start. It would be better if they read the whole thing, but I understand the need to cut down on that a bit. It would be nice if they could include in their rejection where they read up to and why they made their decision. Then its at least constructive.

[@VoidplayLP]

​@james14294 they'll probably reject you based on your first page. They also probably don't have the time to give that level of criticism, you probably did a good job if you even get a reply

[@james14294]

@@VoidplayLP even just saying "read the first page and it was shit" (but sounding professional) would be helpful, one because it means you dont go back to that publisher, but also that you need to make the first page attention grabbing. Helps you for future submissions If they dont have the time to read or even just respond, they shouldnt be publishers. Its bad resource management no matter how you look at it. Or stop accepting books as their criteria and just ask authors to submit proof of their "fame" or whatever metric they are actually using.

[@scottishflower8010]

Most publishing companies don’t accept manuscripts from authors just agents. They’ll send back all agentless authors. So that’s probably why. If the video maker messed up and it was to agents: they get tons and tons of manuscripts and query letters constantly. They have to triage. They read the query letter before ever opening the manuscript. If it’s outside their bounds (genre, word count, or the summary doesn’t work for them) they will probably not read the manuscript.

[@My_Darling_Decay]

Im so grateful self publishing is a thing now and how ppl can upload their works online then later physical

[@bakmanthetitan]

I'll be brave and say this speaks just as much to the nature of art as to any kind of cynical corruption.

[@dalishrogue3621]

Remember folks, always send your manuscripts to an agent first, they do read them because that’s how they make money (by selling manuscripts) plus they know which company is most likely to publish it (as well as the connections to get it published). Also don’t send the book, you send an elevator pitch to them and if they’re interested they’ll get back to you

[@mmilo131]

Why do we need these people anymore. We should just have novels released digitally and if you want a physical book their should be ccompany who will print and bind it for you. Their job is pointless.

[@williamblazkowicz5587]

Amazon would like to have a word with you... Well less a word and more a sales pitch.

[@VoidplayLP]

People still buy books at stores and someone had to put them there

[@justinpeterson7246]

KDP has allowed us authors to succeed in a community that used to be gated to the extreme. Don't have to win the lottery to be an author anymore, just write good shit!

[@SuperstitiousWolf]

what's kdp?

[@giftedfox1]

​@@SuperstitiousWolf It's short for Amazon Kindle Direct Publishing (Amazon KDP)

[@williamblazkowicz5587]

​@@SuperstitiousWolfKindle Direct Publishing. It's basically Amazon exploiting their massive web servers sideways to publish everything they want without needing to print a single page. Just agree to take a %30 cut of the revenue, write a book, and publish.

[@charlieross-BRM]

This is why I helped a poet start his own publishing company. After we printed his and it got good reviews, we took on over 60 titles from writers around the world of poetry, short stories, autobiographies, humour, etc. Some I am very proud to be associated with to this day. If you can ever get admission to a book expo you'll see the BS promotion practices used to hype a book. It's a selling industry, not a literary association.

[@corntrooper8881]

This was a genius social experiment, he showed the hypocrisy and bias of publishers and called them out

[@johnnytony593]

Steps is a strange nasty book. Like a written compilation of that other youtuber's shorts: the mustachioed boy with the "morbid facts".

[@charlestaylor9424]

No one had any obligation to read his stuff.

[@bur_n_t]

i mean i think its a little different if its their whole fucking job to open the manuscript and at least take a peek at it before shooting it down

[@Impositivelygay]

What? Are you even serious? Their entire job consists of reading it

[@charlestaylor3027]

@@Impositivelygay Most publishers say unsolicited submissions not accepted.

[@HandleName_CB]

Is this an alternative universe that plagiarism and copyright infringement do not exist? Who the hell would accept a published work without knowing the applicant? Use your brain, ok?

[@inna-reads]

We ARE using our brains. He retyped "Steps" as if it were just his manuscript. So the publishing house wouldn't have immediately recognised that he was submitting an already published book. That was the whole point. They either were not opening the package/ actually reading the manuscript, or were not knowledgeable enough to recognise an award-winning text.

[@Evictiorama]

​@@inna-readsuse more brain then. He did not included original author's name nor the original title, yet, the publisher decided compare it to Steps. The publisher recognized the story and decided to toy with him (sending plagiarized book to publisher is a common and well-known scam)

[@hollybug-76542]

Publishing houses are corrupt in every way. Gatekeepers of knowledge.

[@HeartInLight]

Just goes to show you, it's who you know. Cause it doesn't matter the industry. There is people gatekeeping it.

[@CitiesTurnedToDust]

Though he did prove the publishing industry is worthless for finding any sort of talent, we don't know whether this guy's story was hot garbage anyway.

[@MRBIGBOI_yt]

Hi

[@Shiro_Sora]

The power of belief greatly alters your perception of reality

[@apocalypseap]

They don't even do their jobs. They do everything not to do them.

[@KORRUPTEDKILL]

Proves that it’s never too late to achieve your dreams ❤

[@raven-edgewindwalker23]

Upon getting busted, that's when they started caring.

[@ladylily]

I don't know what year this took place, but I do know that at least in the last 25 years, publishers do not read unsolicited full manuscripts. You send a query and if accepted, you send 10-30 first pages. IF they think your story has potential, then they allow you to send the full manuscript. After playing this game for a year, I said FU and went into self-publishing because I was not about to ask anyone's permission to tell my stories. No one should ask permission to write or to read. This is why self-publishing is fast over-taking "trad" publishing. Chuck was ahead of his time proving the irrelevance of publishing houses.

[@franzbuhlmann1099]

That just proves that just because you have a job as a publisher, it doesn't mean that you are anywhere nearly qualified for the job!

[@VoidplayLP]

Why? How do you know his story wasn't ass?

[@theonlybrokenpencil]

Bro was two steps ahead, always two steps ahead

[@notaq9727]

I knew it somebody will think about it😂

[@theonlybrokenpencil]

@@notaq9727 yesss haha

[@dillasoul2228]

This just made me realize we've missed out on hundreds if not thousands of VERY good books, way to go again "high end folks"

[@PBandJ723]

He is always 2 steps, ahead.