Health Care Wiring Methods, NEC 2020 - [517.13], (17min:50sec)

[@vince6829]

Clear and concise explanation. Much appreciated!

[@Dbrockjohnson]

Mike, Im currently going though you Exam Prep course and books, and I must say you have a gift sir. I can't imagine trying to explain the code book to ANYONE. However you do a fantastic job. Ive been an Electrician for 27 years, took the test 2 times and failed both. Well now I have Your sources and feel ALMOST ready sir. So thank you and your staff, for al the hard work for ole chunks of coal like me. Please wish me luck on the test cause I HAVE to pass soon!! NC

[@SergioGurrola]

you got this man!!. GO GET THAT SWEET LICENSE!!!

[@MikeHoltNEC]

I'm praying for you Brother.

[@educationpower1823]

Mike, as always what a great job! And good timing. I am doing a class on Healthcare in a week. I have the capacitor and a couple of instructors and love your platform. Been with you since 2007. Keep up the great job. You valued and appreciated for all you do. Robert from Omaha

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Thank you!

[@garbo8962]

Retired a few years ago from a large hospital as a sparky performing PM'S, running 7 fire pumps & over 15 Generators and troubleshooting the hundreds of VFD'S . We used the HCF MC cable in patient rooms for adding receptacles. Always thought that even though new work in patient rooms was always ran in 3/4" EMT along with a green ground conductor and boxes secured to steel studs that the metal studs should have a bonding conductor maybe every third steel walk stud. We started installing a HG TR receptacle next to patient beds with USB charging ports then somebody had us move them at least 6' from patient bed because they thought they were not approved to be close to patient beds. Was surprised that every patient room wall switches ( both normal & emergency power ) were on 277 bolt circuits. A kid made a nice divet in a stainless steel wall plate when he used a paper clip to dig into 277 bolt switch.

[@omniX1D3]

It always seemed to me that it’s ok to use regular MC outside the patient care vicinity for lighting. My copy of the NEC makes it sound like a choice between complying with a or b so long as one of the two is used. “Exception No. 2: Luminaires more than 2.3 m (7½ ft) above the floor and switches located outside of the patient care vicinity shall be permitted to be connected to an equipment grounding return path complying with 517.13(A) or (B).”

[@maurogonzalez499]

Advntxd did you ever get any clarification on this?. I interpret it as either a or b not both a and b.

[@omniX1D3]

@@maurogonzalez499 Yes. Lighting outside of the vicinity only needs to comply with one of the 2 as explained in the exception but anything that's within the vicinity has to comply with both.

[@mathman0101]

@mikeholt it’s often talked about that NFPA70 talks about safety issues and codes reflect that, however for luminaires and switches outside the patient vicinity if your wiring using Armored cable it would not make sense to then wire the switches or luminaires using other cable types out of efficiency you would use the same wiring method and you would still fulfill all the requirements for wiring methods outside the patient vicinity.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

If you want...

[@mathman0101]

@@MikeHoltNEC long may you continue in making the industry great. Your energy is next level god bless you and your family.

[@RobertSmith-lw2bx]

While inspecting I’ve found that many make the mistake that once out of that medical space those grounding requirements aren’t required. Having to explain that the ground fault path must go all the way to the panel helps make sense to them.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

You are correct, and the 2023 is making this extra clear.

[@RobertSmith-lw2bx]

@@MikeHoltNEC amen. So glad it will because many aren’t grasping the theory or concept.

[@chrisashby9307]

Mike, I wanted to ask where exactly does it say that luminaires located more that 7.5 feet AFF must comply with 517.13(A) specifically? I'm looking at the 2020 codebook and 517.13 Ex(2) states if above 7.5' the luminaires must comply with (A) OR (B). Please clarify.

[@JohnThomas-lq5qp]

Side note: about 8 years ago at the large 550 bed hospital that I have since retired from had us replacing a hospital grade TR receptacle next to patient beds with a hospital grade TR receptacle that had two USB charging ports. A few months later had to move them think it was at least 6' from patient bed because somebody did not believe they were approved to be near beds. Told them that never heard of anyone being electrocuted from a five volt very limited power source but when in doubt with patients have to err on side of safety. Of course once they were over 6' from bed got a lot of complaints that patients could not use their 3' cord to charge cell phone while using the phone.

[@dero5466]

Mike, having 2 paths is also advantageous because it will have less resistance and clear faults faster.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

False, watch MikeHolt.com/Groundrod and MikeHolt.com/Funcamentals

[@dero5466]

@MikeHoltNEC false to your false, I am talking about hospital patient care spaces needing 2 egcs. More paths to ground = less resistance on ground fault path, less resistance = higher ampacity in a ground fault. Higher ampacity = faster ocpd trip which is safer for patients.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

I'm sorry I thought you were commenting on a different post (building supplied by a feeder with an EGC and EGC).

[@JacobYoces]

My foreman told me that this wiring method only applies to equipment/outlets/luminaires below 7ft, and that the circuit can be spliced into traditional wiring methods (i.e. normal MC cable) above 7ft. But doesn't the entire circuit have to be wired with the "redundant" EGC all the way back to the panel?

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Please review 517.13, it says "the branch circuit' is required to comply with this rule. So no you can't spice the room wiring to the homerun with different wiring methods. But there is an exception for switches and lighting, so please review the NEC text.

[@jabbaraltaee5958]

hello 1- How can I get pdf copy of NEC 2020 or latest version of NEC ? 2- is NEC different from IEC for GFC , as see NEC may call for 5mA sensitivity GFCI , while IEC call for 30 or 10mA , if I not right please correct me.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

No NEC PDF available and you are correct.

[@droskiy8023]

Hey Mike, I passes my exam. Where can I sell the books?

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Why would you want to do that? This is your library.

[@hectorgutierrez9526]

How old is Mario that he's already an electrical inspector? He looks really young

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Mario became an inspector at the age of 25, and he's now 35 and killing it at Mike Holt Enterprises. You can contact Mario at [e-mail].

[@rpsmith]

Why is FMC OK but not MC? Is it because one is Steel and the other is Aluminum?

[@RobertSmith-lw2bx]

Because of the length requirement. FMC is considered an equipment grounding conductor up to 6’

[@rpsmith]

@@RobertSmith-lw2bx I get that but what is the difference between them? Aren't they both very similar in design other than the material they are made out of?

[@RobertSmith-lw2bx]

@@rpsmith must be something about the MC’s design that we don’t know. Something about it that doesn’t make for good grounding. MC seems to have a tighter make up of how the coils are put together. FMC seems looser if you will. Now you have me thinking deeper into it. Maybe theirs more contact surface between coils that the panel thinks or knows makes for better conductivity, therefor more effective ground fault path. Hmm.

[@rpsmith]

@@RobertSmith-lw2bx -- yes, it's would be interesting to know why one is approved and the other is not.

[@RobertSmith-lw2bx]

@@rpsmith I’ll have to dig into my older code books and see if I can find when the 6’ allowance for FMC equipment grounding came in. Maybe MC cable was over looked and never installed for the medical docs allowance.

[@mikec4684]

You cannot run EMT in the dirt and come up through a slab

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Check out 358.10!

[@mikec4684]

@@MikeHoltNEC I stand corrected sir!

[@averagegoy]

Why does Mario seems like a diversity hire lol