Heart Rate Training with

Jason Cherriman is a 38 year old elite runner from Leeds in the UK (Strava: / strava ) His current marathon PB is 2:21:51 and he is trying to break 2:20 at the London Marathon this Sunday!
In today’s Extramilest Show, he shares many recommendations for marathoners of different levels who are looking to improve. We take a deep dive into heart rate training, aerobic development, measuring various data points, heat training, tapering and much more.
Background stats Jason:
* His max heart rate tested in a lab is 198
* His vo2max during the test was 70
* MAF hr is 147 (180 - 38 + 5)
* In the past 10 weeks he ran an average of 111 miles (179km) per week, that’s about 14 hours a week, 2 hours a day
* 75 to 80% of his runs at low HR (140 or below)
* His average HR during marathon races is 174 to 177
* PR's - marathon in 2:21:51, half marathon in 68:55, 10k in 32:05 and 5k in 15:37.
I learned a lot on today’s episode and made many notes for my own upcoming training blocks.
LINKS:
* Jason on Strava - / strava
* Jason’s Blog - Running Obsessive - runningobsessive.blogspot.com
* Advanced marathoning book - amzn.to/2W39U5W
* Run with Power Book by Jim Vance - amzn.to/2vl7zYd
* Elevate extension for Chrome to plug into Strava - bit.ly/2L3Weqc
* Garmin watch Forerunner® 645 - bit.ly/2vnOfK4
* Garmin HRM-Run™ - bit.ly/2PykcZq
* Polar watch M430 - bit.ly/2PsRbOH
* Nutrition tracking app My Fitness Pal - www.myfitnesspal.com/
* Tanda Race Predictor - tandaracepredictor.com/
* Renato Canova - Italian running coach - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renato_...
* Comrades Marathon South Africa - www.comrades.com/
* New York Marathon - www.tcsnycmarathon.org/
* Boston Marathon - www.baa.org/
SHOW NOTES
* Jason’s background, a bit overweight in his twenties [3:15]
* His stress fracture injury [5:30]
* Jason’s first marathon experience in 2009 at the Hamburg marathon in 3:13 [8:20]
* Bonking spectacularly at mile 17 {11:20]
* Jason’s approach for his next marathons from there [12:45]
* Current PR’s [16:40]
* How Jason has been able to continue improving from 3:13 marathon to 2:21 marathon so far [17:59]
* How Jason goes about Heart Rate Training [22:00]
* Jason’s VO2Max 70, Max HR 198 and MAF 147 [24:35]
* Measuring aerobic efficiency [27:00]
* The fine line between stress and fatigue levels [28:00 ]
* Data analysis with Elevate Strava plugin with fitness vs fatigue [31:20]
* Marathon tapering data and thoughts [34:30]
* Power meters on a bike vs running [35:30]
* Calculating fluid loss + calories lost, so burn rate at different intensities. (540 * fluid loss(kg)) / (distance(km) * body mass(kg) * 0.75). For example, a run Jason did recently: (540 * 1.27) / (12.9*65.45 * 0.75) = 1.08kcal/km/kg [39:10]
* Thoughts on carb depletion and carb loading around a marathon [41:20]
* His average HR during marathon races is 174 to 177 [44:12]
* How Jason trains for heat acclimatization [45:00]
* Training to reduce your body temperatures, improving sweat rate, developing sweat glands, increase VO2Max, etc [46:00]
* Floris’s experience with sauna training with heart rate monitor [50:50]
* How much sleep Jason gets per night [52:20]
* Aerobic efficiency - number of beats per mile [53:50]
* Tanda equation for marathon prediction times [55:30]
* How Jason goes about rest days and limiting chance of injuries [56:25]
* How Jason previously got a stress fractures by building too quickly and training too fast [58:45]
* Jason's experiment with plant based diet [59:40]
* The nutrition that works best for Jason in his training cycles [1:00:35]
* Tracking nutrition on an app [1:00:45]
* What Jason would do differently if he was a full time athlete [1:04:38]
* His favorite speed training workouts [1:06:36]
* His race strategy going into the London Marathon on Sunday with Sub 2:20 goal [1:09:42]
* The best way to start a marathon on race day [1:11:05]
* What Jason does when he hits tough spots in a race [1:13:20]
* Recommendations for other marathoners looking to improve [1:17:20]
* Other races on Jason’s bucket list and transitioning into Ultra distances [1:20:45]
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YOU CAN FIND ME, FLORIS GIERMAN HERE:
► Personal Best Program: www.pbprogram.com/
► Strava - / strava
► Website - extramilest.com
► Podcast - extramilest.com/podcast/
► Instagram - / florisgierman
► FB group - bit.ly/2M3qP40
Subscribe and hit the bell to see new videos: bit.ly/Flo-YT

[@FlorisGierman]

*Hi there! In the coming days and weeks I’m hosting several live webinar trainings about how to run a Personal Best race time, with special optimization strategies. Spots are limited, register for free here: **bit.ly/Running-Training-Flo*

[@English.runner.en.Espana]

amazing webinar gracias. i joined the program!! cant wait to delve in!!

[@kotieerwee2593]

I went from a 2h19min half marathon in 2018 to a 1hr42min half marathon this weekend. Did this by cutting ALL my fast runs (Which used to be about 90% of my runs) and doing only runs at MAF heart rate. Been training like this for the past 5 months. My times are nothing spectacular for sure but still better than anything I could manage in the past and definitely thanks to low heart rate training. Still at the early stages of training by this method and I still foresee a lot of improvement in the coming months.

[@lastfearboy]

Hi can i ask you just continue to run at a lower bpm without looking at the pace right?

[@kotieerwee2593]

​@@lastfearboy For the occasional races I am more focused on pace, but for my training I only look at my bpm's. I do however allow a play of about 5 beats up or down from MAF depending on my fatigue levels.

[@Quincycle]

What I don't understand is if you're always running at MAF HR for months, do you just go straight into race date and then run much faster at a higher HR? Surely you need some conditioning at your race day HR?

[@bendigeidfranemmanueljones5694]

I did that in 6 months not doing maf. Anything works for beginners.

[@balachandar548]

​@@Quincycle with low HR training you avoid injury, can go on and on without getting injured. I did sub 2 HM training at 7km/hr that's 8:34mins per KMs. Trained for 6 months, no injuries feels good actually. My runs were 1hr to 1:30hr each.

[@Amanda.c91]

Just signed up for my first marathon yesterday! Been doing MAF training for a bit. All my runs so far are 10+ miles with no aches or pains. Just some soreness in the glutes haha but feel ready to run again at the end of each run! Keeping that HR in the 140s and enjoying every second of my runs, total bliss training this way and fasted.

[@marksmith9499]

Love the interview, full of inspirational insights that makes running to your potential feel humanly possible :) Plus, I really like the ‘fact sheet’ in the description, full of concise and relevant data, happy days 😎

[@FlorisGierman]

Stoked to hear that Mark! I've been having a lot of fun with these conversations, learning a lot myself as well. Lots is indeed possible with the right approach and mindset. Thanks and have a good one!

[@ethangodridge6833]

I've spoken to Jason in person before. Great chap, says he only has two fast twitch muscle fibres- one in each leg.

[@FlorisGierman]

Ethan Godridge 🤣🤣

[@adilorfi7908]

Indeed, I have Garmin 235 not reliable for heart rate. I need to get a chest strap. A wealth of important info. and resources runners can benefit from. Thanks for the video

[@FlorisGierman]

Adil Orfi 🙏

[@harlequin991]

I think I should move to leeds! And start low heart rate training .great vids floris!

[@bonglibunao]

That consistency first, followed by volume. That's tops for me. But also sorting out the energy system as I build up my aerobic engine. Thanks for the work that you do Floris! More power to your running :-)

[@FlorisGierman]

Well said, great takeaways right there Bong. Thanks and have fun out there on your runs!

[@FlorisGierman]

*Want to become faster and run without injuries? Check out our running coaching program at **www.pbprogram.com**.* This Personal Best Program is a proven, structured training program that guides you every step of the way to optimize your training, racing, and life. You won't find this anywhere else, 20+ hours of my best video content-uniquely developed workbooks and training schedules based on heart rate. You also get, Zoom coaching calls with Floris Gierman and other coaches to troubleshoot any challenges. Plus, access to a highly engaged community of 500+ like-minded athletes. For athletes of all levels and ages, for 5k, 10k, half marathon, marathon, and ultra distances. Save time by learning from my mistakes, skip the overwhelm, and avoid being distracted by all the info and opinions you're bound to come across. *Learn more at **www.pbprogram.com**.*

[@lizaho246]

I've just started maf training so far I've done a week and a half... My garmin is telling me I'm detraining lol good job I don't pay attention to that... I have a overuse injury to my achillies which is why I've started on this way of running and altho it can be frustrating going so slow its also very enjoyable and I can't wait to see me get faster on the same heart effort in the weeks to come.. I love listening to all the podcast on this and also nutrition :)

[@saqeblone4757]

Thanks for the wonderful guidance for running a marathon. I’ve yet to run my first as I started running after age 60. Did a HM AT AGE 69 I learned today the importance of consistency 👍. Well thanks

[@FlorisGierman]

Saqeb Lone well done on the 1/2 marathon. Consistency and patience is definitely key. Have fun out there on your runs!

[@saqeblone4757]

Floris Gierman thanks for an encouraging response. Please check my videos 👍

[@krruns4165]

Really enjoyed this, and the other Leeds lads. Thanks v. much.

[@FlorisGierman]

Lots of fast runners in Leeds!

[@viniciusmagrin]

I bought a polar last week. The m200. A simple model. Its quite acurate.

[@yorkstig]

Really enjoyed this and so nice to have someone from Yorkshire. I was in in 2014 marathon and wish I had found these video's years ago as I would have been so much faster than I am

[@ericchevalley]

Top take away: Heat training!

[@advex4428]

I have to totally agree on the Garmin wrist heart rate monitor. I'm a triathlete and figured out that it has problems distinguishing vibrations from the steps from actual heartbeats. After I also had discarded it for running, figured out that it works very well on the bike. But recently I went over some cobblestone section at low heart rate, but the watch showed hr go up crazily. So to specify, it usually works great on the roadbike, but I would assume that mountainbikers run into problems, too, due to surface.

[@FlorisGierman]

AdvEx good points, thanks for sharing!

[@ozz3790]

then what did u end up using to see your HR?

[@advex4428]

​@@ozz3790Wow. That was a long time ago. This watch got wrecked in seawater. I stayed with Garmin and nowadays don't see any problems with it. But to your actual question, I used nothing else. It was just a section of cobblestone on a roadbike once. So, it was just an outlyer.

[@advex4428]

​@@ozz3790Oh your actual question was, what did I use during a run after discarding it for that. A cheapo garmin with a cheststrap. It worked well. But the current Garmin works well on the wrist without a cheststrap. Cheers

[@guitarman7575]

Many thanks for sharing. Really great and helpful. It is a pity that Ich discover your channel just last week. I am aiming also for a Sub3 for next year in Berlin. My PR ist 3:33. I will definetly try MAF and give you feedback how it went.

[@FlorisGierman]

guitarman7575 plenty of time before Berlin. Excited to hear more about your progress!

[@cochise3540]

guitarman7575 how did it go?

[@guitarman7575]

@@cochise3540 I assume I'm currently in a sub3:10 shape. I need one more year for the sub3. In terms of MAF I'd say my MAF pace improved from 5:40 to 5:10. I will definitely stick on MAF... it's better for my body. In terms of Intervall Speed, in my last 1km intervals I was able to achieve 3:45 min/km.

[@richardmiddleton7770]

You have to occasionally test if you can still hit your max HR. Even sticking to zone 2 training only it can make you fatigued which will bring down your max HR so you will be running at higher and higher percentages of your max. This will happen if you always stick to MAF especially believing you can go 5 beats above if your advanced. It's better to stick to a pace and let your HR be lower rather than always be chasing the upper end of the HR formula. I believe the MAF formula is better as a MAX HR number and to try to stay 5-10 beats BELOW that.

[@dcutl]

I use a Polar M430. I find that the optical heart rate sensor on the Polar M430 is very close to the accuracy of a chest strap.

[@FlorisGierman]

Donald Cutler that's good you found something that's working well for you! 👍

[@giovanbattistafichera8439]

I have exactly the same model and at low temperatures the readings are all over the place. I suppose that's because my veins constrict and the watch has trouble picking up variations. I have a threshold run with 115bpm throughout with spikes close to the real HR to prove it. After that disappointing experience, I just bought a wahoo chest strap and now all is fine.

[@dcutl]

Giovanbattista Fichera, sorry to hear that the M430 doesn’t work for you in cold weather. Glad that you corrected the problem with a chest strap. I have never had a problem.

[@ints86]

Jason Cherriman - London Marathon 2019 - 02:28:18

[@FlorisGierman]

Indrek Ilumäe yes it wasn't his day, he will be back again. Here is a good recap of the race he wrote: runningobsessive.blogspot.com/2019/04/chasing-dreams-project-220-race.html?m=1

[@martinlyons9431]

Still a super time.

[@quantumhumannutrition]

The protein confusion. KZbin - Chemistry for understanding nutrition by Milton Mills MD. Please watch.

[@geoffreymccann2841]

Interesting on the strength training if he's still running into his late 50's, he may then realise he'll be better off forgoing a couple of those 2 hour run days and replace it with a few days of strength work.

[@ccerhr]

How do you related MAF heart rate(and pace) to a race heart rate(and pacing strategy)? It's common to see runners running a marathon @ high zone 2 to low zone 3(which is around MAF HR). But elites like Jason are definitely running much higher than that.

[@krruns4165]

Hi, you would be looking to run a marathon at between 80-90% max HR. For me, MAF HR would be more like 70% max HR. So, in summary, you would be looking to race a marathon at a higher intensity than MAF HR.

[@KennyPhan]

Any interviews with normal runners who their marathon time is 4:00, half is 2:00, and 5k is 30mins for several years then tried MAF and now BQ?

[@kazoonubs]

@floris This could be an interesting line of pursuit, don't you think?

[@FlorisGierman]

Kenny Phan yes there are plenty! I'm an example myself with a 4 hour 11 marathon then discovering MAF bringing it to Boston. I have two 5+ hour marathon to BQ progress marathoners lined up for the podcast in the coming weeks / months so stay tuned.

[@FlorisGierman]

Haider Khan yes absolutely, in the works, stay tuned!

[@alane3983]

Curiously, eating chocolate after dark counts more than eating it early in the day. That applies to all food actually. I don’t understand how it works but, surprisingly, it does. The time of day that you consume your calories matters. 😮

[@ziadirida]

If I run 50% of my marathon at 148-153 and 40% at 154-158 and 10% at 159-165, what makes sense as training heart rate? MAF rate+5 is 128, which is no where near race rates. Garmin has me at low Aerobics till 142. I feels comfortable running at 138 for a long run.

[@johnnyleemail77]

How old are you?

[@alexchan5290]

I have Garmin 5X, don't know how accurate is the heart rate reading, looks like I need to invest chest strap heart monitor, any suggestions?

[@dcutl]

Polar H10, Garmin HRM-Run, Wahoo TICKERx. Since you have a Garmin, I would go with the Garmin HRM-Run.

[@FlorisGierman]

Donald Cutler well said!

[@FlorisGierman]

Alex Chan check Donalds comment, great points

[@alexchan5290]

@@FlorisGierman thanks getting Garmin HRM-run, thanks for advice 👍

[@lavasyst]

when i was at 3:10 marathoner level, my heart rate was still so high. How can i work on this to have a low heart rate just like the top atletes? more easy runs/aerobic training? or more interval training? thank you..

[@TheBaldyheed]

More slow runs.

[@FlorisGierman]

TheBaldyheed yup 👍

[@FlorisGierman]

Lava_sysT because you trained a lot at high HR. It will drop over time as you slow down most of your training miles to build an aerobic base and improve your fat burning. Increasing training volume can help as well. You don't need a lot of speedwork to become a faster marathon runner

[@lavasyst]

@@FlorisGiermanwhat is the heart rate that you would recommend to focus on?

[@ozz3790]

@@lavasyst 140 ish

[@abhineetkapil]

How was the London marathon time for Jason.

[@davidosolo]

2:28:18

[@DarrenAP]

Do I need to move to Leeds to realise my running potential? Something in the northern water! 😂

[@FlorisGierman]

Hahaha, I know right, tons of fast runners up there! It's like the Ngong (Kenya) of the UK

[@georgeabraham5672]

On the day of the marathon does the HR still in MAF or you go all out?

[@richardmiddleton7770]

MAF is just for the training. In racing you just let rip!

[@stephenflynn7600]

When using a Garmin, how can I see what my heart rate is in real time?

[@ahmeda7816]

If you have a Garmin watch it would connect to it and then you can see the data in real time.

[@thefirstluck5409]

14 run hours a week but don't have time to put a strengt training 🙃

[@brummierunner]

I average 25 miles a week and competed London marathon in 3hrs 17. 7 weeks of training. Check my strava = si smith. Completed ironman Wales with marathon 3.44 marathon on back of 112 mile bike

[@SupaMonkeyZA]

Great to have these interviews, but some of us don’t have 1-2 hours to watch them. Please can you take your notes from these interviews and make 3-5min breakdowns of all the running tips given by the elites you interview.

[@FlorisGierman]

You can read through the comments and see everyone's favorite takeaways and quotes. Also, there are show notes with timestamps to all key topics in the KZbin description towards the bottom, check it out.

[@peterjean6532]

Make the time. Beggars can't be choosers.

[@elvay6847]

Couldn't make it past about the 100th "emm". Shame :-(