Productivity Expert: What’s WRONG w/ Modern Work (+ How To Fix It) | Cal Newport X Rich Roll

Rich sits down with Computer Science professor Cal Newport to discuss the concept of slow productivity as a means to enhance work-life balance and reduce burnout. To read more about Cal and peruse the full show notes, go here👉🏾bit.ly/richroll817
✌🏼🌱 - Rich
This Episode Brought To You By...
CAMELBAK
Use my code RICHROLL for 20% OFF 👉 bit.ly/camelbak2024
LISTEN / SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST
Apple Podcasts: bit.ly/rrpitunes
Spotify: bit.ly/rrpspotify
Google: bit.ly/rrpgooglepods
Meal Planner: meals.richroll.com
Voicing Change Book: richroll.com/vc
Clips Channel: / richrollpodcastclips
Newsletter: bit.ly/rollcallemail
CONNECT WITH RICH
✩ Website - richroll.com​
✩ Rich Roll Podcast - richroll.com/all-episodes/
✩ Instagram - / richroll
✩ Twitter - / richroll
✩ Facebook - / richrollfans
✩ Strava - www.strava.com/athletes/14443...
✩ Memoir: Finding Ultra - www.richroll.com/shop/books/f...
✩ Meals - meals.richroll.com​
✩ Cook - The Plantpower Way - www.richroll.com/shop/books/t...
✩ Italian! - The Plantpower Way: Italia - www.richroll.com/shop/books/t...
✩ Support - / richroll
FILMED AND EDITED BY BLAKE CURTIS & DAN DRAKE
www.blakecurtis.net/
www.dandrake333.com/
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:00 Intro
00:02:46 Slow Productivity And Book Sales
00:05:31 Value Of Autonomy And Social Media
00:07:11 Managing Ambition And Work-Life Balance
00:11:22 Podcast Growth And Time Management
00:17:36 Taking Breaks And Detaching From Work
00:18:46 The Dilemma Of The Modern Day Knowledge Worker
00:19:07 The Evolution Of Productivity In Knowledge Work
00:21:34 The Burnout Crisis In Knowledge Work
00:23:38 The Impact Of Digital Technology On Work-Life Boundaries
00:24:42 The Struggle With Productivity And Time Management
00:25:32 Redefining Productivity With Slow Productivity
00:28:12 Implementing Slow Productivity Principles
00:29:18 Strategies For Implementing Slow Productivity
00:35:13 The Role Of Trust And Asynchronous Communication
00:35:41 Dealing With Requests
00:36:10 Sponsor Break
00:37:12 Yes And No
00:39:06 Managing Email Communication
00:44:20 Working At A Natural Pace
00:45:47 Learning From Historical Figures
00:52:23 Adapting Principles To Modern Work
00:54:23 The Challenge Of Slow Productivity
00:55:39 The Deliberate Path To Success
00:56:34 The Importance Of Clarity And Intention
00:58:11 The Advice Of Being So Good They Can't Ignore You
01:01:30 Obsessing Over Quality In Slow Productivity
01:02:57 The Long Play Of Podcasting
01:06:06 The Pitfalls Of Chasing Social Media Rewards
01:09:31 The Future Of Podcasting And Video
01:12:05 The Demise Of Algorithmic Curation
01:13:09 The Future Of Podcast Curation
01:15:02 The Promise Of Indie Content Development
01:16:34 The Balance Between Quality And Perfectionism
01:20:11 Intrinsic Motivation And Craftsmanship
01:23:13 The Impact Of Slow Productivity On Leveraging Time
01:24:41 The Role Of Technology In Productivity
01:29:08 Common Productivity Mistakes
01:30:01 The Shift From Personal Productivity To Organizational Input
01:30:58 Challenges Of Implementing Slow Productivity In The Workplace
01:35:46 Managerial Capitalism And Its Impact On Productivity
01:40:08 Developing Discipline And Self-Belief
01:44:24 Personal Evolution Towards Discipline And Productivity
01:46:48 The Transition To Writing
01:47:52 Balancing Writing And Grad School
01:48:22 Managing Stress And Distractions
01:49:53 Managing Distractions
01:52:20 Learning From Movies
01:53:45 Playing With Storytelling
01:56:45 The Impact Of Slow Productivity
02:00:13 Initiating Change In The Workplace
02:02:35 Escaping The Gravitational Pull Of Email
02:03:23 Checking Email Alternatives
02:04:52 Impact Of Frequent Email Checking
02:06:34 Neurological And Psychological Effects
02:08:26 Reclaiming Productivity
02:10:05 Manager Vs. Creator Productivity
02:11:58 George Marshall's Approach
02:14:05 Redefining Productivity
02:15:47 Time-Bound Work Strategies
02:18:47 Closing Remarks
* * * * *
NEW TO RICH?
Hi I'm Rich Roll. I'm a vegan ultra-endurance athlete, author, podcaster, public speaker & wellness evangelist. But mainly I'm a dad of four. If you want to know more, visit my website or check out these two the NY Times articles:
bit.ly/otillonyt
bit.ly/vegansglam
I LOVE MAIL! SEND IT HERE:
2630 Conejo Spectrum St.
Thousand Oaks, CA 91320
#richroll #richrollpodcast

[@richroll]

Thanks for watching! Don't miss out on this exclusive offer: CAMELBAK: Use my code RICHROLL for 20% OFF 👉 bit.ly/camelbak2024

[@ThierryBoutin]

Thanks for that episode @Richroll!

[@jithenin]

Only 30 Minutes into it, already some takeaway - “ The First is to do fewer things “ “ The Second is to work at a natural pace “ & “ Finally obsess over Quality “, thank you “ Cal “ & “ Rich “ for this podcast ❤️🙏

[@wrfootball3847]

Exactly. Work smarter, not harder. There is a new process called Agile, most companies doing that now. It's so easy to think working 13 hour days is more productive. It isn't. But the perception is it is. My company did 8 hour days and productivity went up 300%

[@catedoge3206]

Ty

[@stacynhenderson]

“The next one’s going to be perfect… so therefore you ship the one you’re working on” Million dollar line right there 🙏

[@MelodyProsser]

I've always focused on quality and could never understand how people got so little done yet always looked busy. I feel validated. Thank you.

[@simonecosta842]

Two of the most inspiring people for me, talking and reflecting together. The impact both of you had on my life is inexplicable. Thank you so much. A warm hug from Italy, Ciao, Simone.

[@virtusmindset]

This is a cool statement, which Rich quoted from his coach: ‘The prize doesn’t go to the fastest person; it goes to the person who slows down the least.’😃

[@Yazzer1844]

What does that mean !?? Lol. I’m only 36 minutes in.

[@Denni84636]

30:40 This was my exact solution as an overworked junior lawyer. I had a sheet on my desk of all my assignments and deadlines, so if someone came to give me more work I made them review the list with me

[@DMGoggins]

9 minutes in and I love this guy. I'm sitting here with my morning tea and not excited about heading into work and this guy is validating my dread!

[@stevenmcbride9773]

Wow my situation exactly. lol

[@donnae2013]

He’s not bad to look at either. 😂

[@CMoore8539]

@@stevenmcbride9773Same here.

[@SherryCash-zc6sd]

Singing my song!

[@MattTHX-io4tk]

​@donnae2013 are you g ay bruv ?

[@beasanchez2e]

The perfect crossover ❤ I'm spanish and I learn english with people like you, both of you, because I NEED to know what people like you need to say. Five kiddos, slow productivity, rich life and the best podcast.

[@oceanbreathyogawellness4487]

I love how he sees the world and is able to distill it into something useful and needed. Not many business books interest me. But his are you useful to my world. And....I never want to throw in useless comments, but this once I have to add.....anyone else seeing and hearing Jason Bateman 2.0?

[@mulletjunky]

I was trying to tell my sister who’s been a stay at home parent for a while how crazy it is now. That there’s this whole extra category of “work before the work.” Emails and calendars and systems that everyone obsesses over to make themselves feel…. Important? Relevant? Every time I’ve dared question the focus on those trivial tasks I’ve been meet with resistance. They don’t like being forced to confront the meaningless nature of how their time is spent.

[@mrgregorygerald]

I recently purchased "Deep work" as an audiobook based on a recommendation from ChatGPT, so the word of mouth success Cal has cultivated throughout the years has crossed over to the "mind" of an AI haha, thought that was silly enough to share!

[@elainealmquist957]

I feel very validated by all of the different information here. I run my company by implementing project management similarly to kanban boards. I block out my time for projects. I don't take meetings at Wednesday. I have and keep daily habits. I am increasingly disgusted by busy work. This was very poignant, thank you.

[@zenmasterx]

49:15 If you are overly busy with different projects, emails, texts, it is hard to be creative or productive. 1:23 Craft

[@DocMC86]

I love Mondays because it brings a new episode of the Rich Roll podcast 🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@CedarSpringWolf]

Also new Cal Newport podcast :)

[@jasonjacobson2089]

Thank you for this enlightening podcast, and a special thanks to Rich for emphasizing that anything meaningful requires a decade of dedication and foundation building. Around three years ago, a particular topic piqued my interest, and since then, I've devoted most of my free time to exploring it. I've been diligently learning, jotting down ideas, and gradually honing my expertise in this field. However, there are times when self-doubt creeps in, and I question if my efforts are in vain. Your insights are greatly appreciated and serve as a reminder of the value of perseverance

[@aspenwagon04]

Outrageous amounts of email and ticketing systems completely disregulated my mental health at my last job. It was so bad. So toxic. So much so I was grateful to be laid off. I hope this message gets more of a hold in corporate America.

[@mickeylana]

This was a fascinating conversation. Cal + Rich always make me reflect on so many different things, not just work.

[@JohnPatrickWeiss]

Already bought Cal’s new book, and love his message. Less tends to be more for me, too. Another great podcast.

[@hopelessatusernames]

1:14:00 With TV, I've given up on looking for things / curating for myself because of the sheer quantity, I'll watch what my social circle tell me to watch. I think Cal's right, and the way forward for media / content consumption will be more organic and socially driven

[@joesph9748]

Good ideas on time management. I spent time dissecting how I spend my time a few years back and was horrified to see that most of my time is within my control, despite having a executive position with many demands, and that I was spending my time mostly on things that were not important to my job and life. I would suggest that everyone take an inventory of your time - a few key areas of potential benefit - email, meetings without clear purpose which are usually too long, checking social media/stock market. Be clear on your priorities so you can control what is within your control. It’s difficult but there is huge benefit if you can create a plan and stick to it.

[@stephenvankleeck4801]

Spot on. My senior leadership often recommend “The Effective Executive” - which is kind of “meh” outside of the section on time budgeting. For anyone stepping from an individual contributor role into a management/leadership position - tracking your “time budget” will set you apart from many other folks at your level! I’ve made very minor tweaks to time allocation and it’s drastically reduced my anxiety levels at the end of the day and week because I carve time out for what’s important (and that needs assessed and reassess in real-time) and I’ve cultivated discipline to actually use that time for that activity. So simple, but has created significant improvements. All by simply using my calendar as my to-do list and cultivating discipline to just do it.

[@crbradbury8282]

Thank you 🙌👍🏼

[@watchthesky2215]

So pleased you have interviewed Cal, his views really resonate with me...

[@AlanoudAz]

Wow for 2 years I listened to podcasts first time see him

[@artful_spinning2319]

This podcast is such a valuable tool for me! So many nuggets that have truly enhanced my life!

[@thomas.moerman]

Nice! Two of my fave Podcasters together. Will listen to this during my running workout pronto.

[@susanh326]

I always felt very productive when working. I was a steam engine. It was great. I love to work. Roll up your sleeves, Rich!

[@kathleenfoster7988]

Absolutely loved! Many take aways…for me strategies for handling emails. Thank you!!! Many days I feel like all I do is answer emails. It leaves me feeling significantly unproductive. I feel better already! Thx!⭐️

[@SherryCash-zc6sd]

Now my ducks are in a slow moving line! Thank you both tremendously❤

[@villagefarang]

Listening to this just reinforces my belief that I made the right decision all those decades ago to extricate myself from the system and move abroad where I could focus on life and experience rather than work and productivity. For me checking out from the rat race was the way to go. Still it is interesting to see how people who stay in might manage things more efficiently.

[@m.dgaius6430]

Right there with you. Now the task for those conditioned by the productivity myth is to be in constant containment mode watching stress levels levels like a hawk. It makes one feel more in control in these situations, and the mind does not like to have no control and predictive capacity.

[@joryiansmith]

This was such an important and insightful conversation 🙏

[@midnight851]

Super enriching conversation and a nice pair to Newport's new book. Thank you for the hard work!

[@mikesimms1]

As a tech guy that's dealt with substantial burnout, I think this guy gets it. However, one issue with time management that we can't fix on our own is managing other people's expectations. Now that we have the technology to be in touch with everyone 24/7, many workplaces now expect that each employee will be available to handle any request, anytime, day or night, no matter how trivial the subject. Example: I've been formally reprimanded for not replying to a status email that was sent at 3am. I replied at 6am, a few minutes after I woke up. HR told me to be figure out how to be more responsive.

[@venylai]

That’s atrocious! How did you respond to HR’s remarks? Did they expect you to perform your job without good sleep? Gosh, I’m sorry you had to experience that.

[@mikesimms1]

@@venylai I asked how I could have been more responsive and they told me that it was my responsibility to figure that out. The modern workplace is just toxic. I'm now working at a ground floor startup, lol

[@sacric1de]

Good stuff was waiting for someone to interview cal. His channel has tons of info

[@abdulazizalmaneea177]

Amazing content! Thank you 👏🏼😊

[@TEETHclothing]

Loved this convo

[@williamkelly1519]

Good podcast. Eventually I sided with Merton in my life who said: once you lose ambition (or ego) happiness begins.

[@colbykultgen2059]

Cal is the best!

[@taylorjanegreen1]

Thank you!

[@nicoletynan2429]

Lots to think about here that really resonated with me - days taken over by reading and responding to emails and at the end of the day feeling like I haven’t achieved anything yet also feeling burnt out - not a good way to continue - here’s to trying to change - thanks for the discussion 😊

[@PabloAriasArte]

Awesome knowledge!

[@mberns81]

Liked. Subscribed. And purchased the book.

[@somethingxblue]

I wish my adhd knew that I'm not supposed to be jumping from thought to thought and task to task all day long

[@davimg]

Thank you I was thinking the same thing! However ADHD is mostly a product of our times, so I would also make the case that all the tools and ineffective processes companies push on us - worsens all aspects of adhd

[@somethingxblue]

@@davimg I don't know about ADHD being "a product of our times". I can assure you that my 90 year old father has all the same traits and characteristics that granted me a diagnosis. Just because the diagnosis didn't exist, it doesn't mean he didn't struggle, just that he didn't get the support he needed and he has to deal with a lot of the consequences for it now.

[@YveeYoga-jpn]

I love this and i love Cal New port

[@matthewkelleher1647]

Here's how I maximize productivity and reasonably sane at work as a manager... Let phone calls go to voice mail and check them later. Call back as needed. Don't let unscheduled conversations interrupt your focus. Shared live Google sheets to keep track of workflow and keep people on the same page and assign tasks with color coding. Have a set work schedule where you come in and leave at the same time every day and make sure others know when that is. If the job provides a cell phone, keep a separate personal phone and leave the work phone at work or leave it in your car or silence it when not working. Schedule everything and be at least 2 weeks out in your mindset.

[@robob3ar]

1:10 thing / I’ve studied compiter science and had my 486 intel pc in around 96 / first slow modem to now having 1 GB network… I’m listening to this youtube podcast while walking, can’t see the screen, me thinking - no it is gonna step back / tvs are cheap, everyone has mobile phones, I use radio in my car often, and I sort of miss using it more, audio is gonna step up, more hands free wireless, and more physical apperances.. I’m all “popular” platforms but youtube is like a default now - I can’t really watch 3 hours of podcasts but I can walk for 2 hours and listen to it and take breaks while walking etc.. Anyway youtube is the podcast and tiktok for me, and I’m guessing it’s not going away quickly - I get hooked on shorts when browsing / put my mind on standby, and longer videos I listen through while doing my daily 10-15k steps..

[@adrianaallen1030]

Game changer. I got some reading to enjoy to stay on the path. So on point. Thank you!

[@missslinkypants]

I'd like to know how to apply a slow productivity mindset/practice when you work in a service industry, where people want things as quickly as possible

[@franklanham6936]

1:36:00 It hit me in this section where Cal is talking about managerial capitalism, that this is the difference between Elon Musk and Tesla versus most other large corporations in the US. Most other large corporations are managerial capitalist organizations where management’s aim is for stability and safety of their own positions, with the objectives of the company and its shareholders being in second place. After having read Elon‘s biography, it becomes clear to me that he is essentially the owner of his companies and he is physically there at those companies frequently. In doing so, he holds all levels of the companies, including the top levels of management, to task directly, pushing forward the objectives of the companies. Which, by the way, are Elon’s objectives. This is why GM and Ford do not have the culture and burning desire to push their companies forward into the future like Tesla. The result is that Elon is key to the success of his companies. No other manager that I’m aware of can or would manage these companies in the same way.

[@shobinyad6643]

It made me rethink about how I am treating my life!!!

[@shobinyad6643]

@32:41

[@user-sk5rq8oe6c]

nice podcast

[@DuduOhsson]

This guy needs to talk to my boss

[@MohdYaseenmas]

Just ordered Deep work 😄

[@Grumpy_nurse]

Mothers of young children have regular and frequent interruptions - cognitive disruptions & neurological exhaustion...

[@betodrk]

Commenting only an hour into this episode: this is a clear manifestation of Cal’s third principle. Amazing. Thanks for putting this together.

[@masondrip42]

this is great advice once you have money

[@AnyaSul]

Thank you for this episode ❤️ ps Rich Roll you so handsome 👀

[@SubtleYoga]

"raises the question" Rich, not begs.❤

[@sjm39]

Cal’s context at 2:08 and many times through this episode is my life mixed with a cocktail of ADHD. I think it’s time to delete all of my apps and only have the ability to make phone calls.

[@VaclavVolf145]

How did you ask him to join your podcast, if he isnt on any social media? :D

[@lauraporter3434]

I'm trying to get SOMEthing out of this podcast, yet mostly it reinforces my belief that my job inherently creates burnout...teaching High School...probably accurate for many human-service type jobs.

[@julianhoward8724]

Try Asana!!!

[@DJSTOEK]

❤❤❤

[@m.dgaius6430]

Rich I'd like to see you have someone like Jonathan Haidt on your show. A person who is not going to hold your hand all the way through and have you firing new neural circuitry. That would be a learning experience instead of the same old same old confirmation bias.

[@richroll]

Not sure what you re inferring between the lines with statement but I can tell you (to the extent that you are implying I'm avoiding a certain type of conversation or Hadit specifically) that I have been pursuing Hadit for the podcast for a very long time -- trying to work out schedules as we speak as a matter of fact.

[@tdunn2]

Ok, I’m feeling personally attacked by this talk 😂 I THRIVE in chaotic, unpredictable, multi personality environments! 🤷‍♂️

[@olivierfrayssineau7237]

RRP going in with the DOAC entry

[@james737]

It’s annoying there and annoying here.

[@aaronyork9705]

Rich is lookin yoked 👏🏾💪🏾

[@naiomifreeman]

What about saying everything you have to say in half the time, practice that.

[@kdmtube8354]

❤. சூப்பர்

[@pikurossfc]

❤

[@vah5890]

🥳

[@jamessullenriot]

Finally some great and reasonable tips for the knowledge worker, just in time for AI to wipe out most all of the knowledge worker jobs 😂

[@user-fo7nh7ln3c]

Way of tracking time and give feedback of estimated time is good for individual but for organizations that has more spontaneous needs, it may not help much. This is one of the headache we ran into. Colleagues who are not on our team sometimes are difficult to speed up process, when it is indeed urgent. So others are good at saying no, making it difficult for us to push project forward.

[@Ropadope23]

1:05 :00 all podcasts boosted by Rogan. Rich won't say his name

[@sew1what]

Digital diversity vs algorithms. Diversity in all things 😂🎉❤ A lot of this applies to retail as well 😜 so much time wasted talking about doing the work we already know how to do 😢 ... I will do it well! Namaste 🙏

[@webmaster1461]

Almost two and half hour; what's less?

[@tracemagace8434]

Plants thrive while under stress

[@observer5864]

Rich looking really good with that beard🙂wow!

[@Andre_Agassi]

Love this conversation and these guys. Cal's KZbin guy is going hard on the shitty clickbait titles that Rich was criticising - "Most self-help advice is wrong - here's the fastest way to transform your life".

[@najmehalyasin4194]

Just don’t have him as your PhD prof he’s not gonna answer your email 😂😂😂😂

[@haydenwilsonx]

You’re slowly making a transition into Christian Bale, Rich

[@william9104]

46:45 Lin Manuel Miranda attended Wesleyan, not Swarthmore.

[@taylornoles6528]

You know who looks like Cal? Jason Bateman

[@WORKOUTSOLUTIONS]

❤️‍🔥💥🚀🙏✝️GOD BLESS ✝️🙏⛪️💯💪

[@wetyewruyrtsutrdhjfg]

Deeple Meeple.

[@maxreaper25]

Just say his name Cut the click bait and take notes from what Lex Friedman does.

[@carolgerber6375]

Wow! Interesting ideas. Seems robotic tho.

[@kellysober9352]

Please say CAL NEWPORT in the headline. We know who Cal Newport is!! Geez.

[@TechOutAdam]

The way to be productive is to actually not listen to this podcast lol you know what to do so just do it.

[@ayanshsingh9971]

Second

[@informaticapowercentertuto7209]

The podcaster face looks like AI generated😂

[@user-py3tp5qv6d]

Greatly disappointed. Rich used to be a great podcasters, very humble and humane, who inspired me to look for a joy in this life. Unfortunately, gradually he turned from a great blogger to a successful KZbinr who cares more about KZbin algorithm than actual people. Finally instead of talking about increasing joy of life he talks about increasing productivity. Instead of people, as humans he talks about intellectual workers. Very sad. One more win for KZbin and a loss for humanity. Have a productive life Rich, but I will follow another path towards a joyful life.

[@Jan-nu6zc]

First

[@jeffcallen6421]

You're not productive because you're watching things like this on youTube

[@nangle9184]

So true omg!

[@adewootton5729]

Stupid comment

[@shoshanakirya-ziraba8216]

The part about ghosting professional emails is probably the most white male thing I have ever heard. 😅 I'll know we've made it when we talk about doing that in public too.

[@MattTHX-io4tk]

He takes forever to say nothing much at all and his fans drink the coolaid od word salad 😂😂

[@marcelokleindamotta]

I fucking hate these Rich Roll interviews. Not only he talks too much, but also 90% of what he says is so dumbly obvious that shouldn't be said at all.

[@marissaproulx3516]

The privilege is reeking in these podcasts. So over them.

[@wholebodyhealthservices4183]

I love this concept. Would love to figure out how this would apply to a therapist job working in a broken healthcare system.