Hearthstone Pro Rates The MOST TOXIC Yu-Gi-Oh! Cards ft. @Rarran

[@darthvein3]

"When my opponent plays cards I wanna throw up" is one of the best descriptions of the yugioh experience.

[@LounoirRecords]

and if he goes first, you can concede the game in most cases what a great game this is

[@rmelo2382]

@@LounoirRecordsi go back to master duel once every few weeks out of nostalgia. about 15 mins of straight combos with snake eyes amd im reminded why yugioh has been a dead game

[@ab2aasd]

@@rmelo2382 it's the 2nd best selling game in Japan behind Pokémon, kinda funny to be holding a funeral for

[@algumnomeaihehe]

​@@LounoirRecordscut a weeb

[@tonyroot3047]

I always end up feeling miserable after playing master duel since it feels like most of the time I am just sitting there watching a guy/girl play some unfair cards that draw or mill 20 cards and then activate them one by one to make an unbreakable board

[@mimic7184]

"Sometimes I wish I didn't know Maxx 'C' existed..." I don't know, Rarran seems like a Yugioh player to me!

[@lewischapman7367]

I agree

[@matasa7463]

He felt the boning. The deep, visceral, and absolutely soul crushing feeling of being fucked over by the roach.

[@EastToWestTCG]

I think he still plays secretly 🤭

[@fuuryuuSKK]

31:32 "the problem with card games is, like, your opponent's playing cards" so true bestie

[@sebastianl4135]

Let the record show that Rarran believes Mystic Mine is just a sex minigame in Yu-Gi-Oh!

[@SheruMuko]

This comment is going to blow up soon.

[@baileydombroskie3046]

This is the top comment shown for me. And wtf is this top comment? Wtf!...

[@mawillix2018]

This is the best comment, I agree with it being the top comment. The only way to make it better is to remind people about Mesa Falcon Guy.

[@doctorgamer1292]

How is this comment 16 hours old if the video is only an hour old

[@traplover6357]

​@@doctorgamer1292Patreon have 1 day early access

[@lucapon3287]

16:33 The pokemon world champion this year had only 4 pokemon in his deck. They were all 4 copies of Iron Thorn EX, which is basically Skill Drain. The strat is to just mulligan until you start with it, and then the rest of the deck is trainer cards that draw and search everything else you would need.

[@PiePie453]

Champion is a stretch tho tbf

[@Reaper0800]

​@@PiePie453He won Worlds, doesn't that make him this years champion?

[@PiePie453]

@@Reaper0800 depends how you feel about the backwards applied game loss his opponent got after he had already lost to them in the semis. Still did well and winner vs top cut competitor is a smaller gap than people would like to think maybe but still, it was a weird precedent, usually we apply match losses going forward

[@ropesnake]

To be fair, in my experience PTCG has a very different mindset from YGO when it comes to stun type decks. Due to the way deckbuilding works (60 cards, heavy draw power, no sideboard) there's space for one of techs to respect certain matchups. And unlike ygo where you get floodgated and lose immediately if you don't have the out, you can actually expect to have time to dig for your techs in PTCG. So stun still has its haters ofc, but it's seen more like just another matchup you have to prepare for and respect compared to YGO. Also, I would classify Iron Thorns as more like a slow control deck rather than stun, since unlike, say, Snorlax you at least plan on attacking. I'd compare it to something like Eldlich in that you slow down the game with skill drain and removal and then win with a big beater.

[@shawnjavery]

​@@ropesnakeyou usually have some wiggle room to play under a flood gate. The decks that abuse floods the best just tend to be able to deal with that in engine. I've won a lot of games against lab under skill drain for instance, but for SE they will remove their own skill drain the moment they feel like they can play and for yubel nightmare pain gives you a short timer and gives them follow up you're probably not well prepared to deal with under skill drain. It also just doesn't help that you have to devotee most of your hand to stop the primary lines for these decks. 😊

[@tommysaroda4446]

Wait Cimmooo, Rarran was correct, Super polymerization was banned for a long while temporarily and then they unbanned the card back. So Rarran was correct thought

[@rsands8879]

Was gonna say this. Tartan has the same reaction to reading Super Poly as most players do getting their board Super Poly’d.

[@dasherplayz4471]

Wasn't he asking if the card is banned CURRENTLY

[@pivotcreator2]

@@rsands8879yet he thought shifter was a necessary evil 🙄

[@wompastompa3692]

"Stronger Kaiser Coliseum? That sounds fair and well balanced." -Rarran

[@DrGandW]

“This is like a really well designed card” -referring to Mystic Mine at 1:08:44 The reaction is arguably the best part of the video

[@leebulger7112]

​@@DrGandWI think Mystic Mine is what Kaiser Colliseum wanted to be.

[@awesometubing9471]

It's at 2 in the OCG

[@souliswinter1024]

they're both banned in OCG ​@@awesometubing9471

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

It's a weaker Kaiser Colosseum. Kaiser Colosseum stops your opponent from summoning at all. Mystic Mine only stops attacks and activated abilities, only sometimes, and blows itself up if played on turn 1 (or any other time the opponent is capable of performing rudimentary arithmetic). Now... if you managed to have Mine AND Kaiser Colosseum, then Mine would actually be good.

[@pocketfluffal2134]

The initial reaction to scrap-iron scarecrow is exactly what went through the mind of every kid on the playground before showing up at locals and realising you have been accidentally cheating for months

[@MikeMozzaro]

Honestly; I'm really happy that Rarran is able to actually have fun with Yugioh content now. Even if he doesn't nessisarily like the game all that much; after all the drama that came spewing out from that one video; the fact he's even able to make casual jokes about the game and have general discussions on the game design and meta just makes me smile~

[@zanpakutoman4225]

I'd like to see his reaction to watching the anime. Just for him to get an idea of where Yugioh players' head space were when we first started playing. Also, how ridiculous the show is compared to the real game (Despite the lack of 1st turn auto winning combos in the show).

[@Aquilenne]

​@@zanpakutoman4225 To be fair, the show does have a couple of FTK characters, and "Sets up an intimidating turn 1 board that the MC has to pull something to break" is a fairly common trope in the later seasons.

[@FIRE-LOTUS]

What drama happened? I'm curious to know now.

[@timaeus22222]

@@FIRE-LOTUS Basically he had his first impression of yugioh through Master Duel and the duelist cup replays with tearlament and naturia adamancipator and such ("I Played YuGiOh to Prove it's Ridiculous"), and as a new player he tried learning Dragonmaid and Salamangreat and was clicking buttons and having no idea what he was doing, and then he took his inaccurate experience and said "this game is awful for new players" (paraphrase). Later on he did revisit it and gave it another chance by learning Swordsoul, and actually looking up combos, and then he came to terms with it after giving it a fair shake. And fast forward to today, he's having fun talking about yugioh from afar. :-)

[@romram7984]

I mean to be fair. That is going to be alot of people's first experiences with the game since it's free and easy to just download on your console of choice and try it out. And I bet he's not the only one to say that about the game due to it. We also don't have a rulebook that covers everything in the game, and I don't see every single person who plays the game immediately jumping into the tutorials (unless the game forces you to. I haven't started the game fresh in a few years now). So I 100% see people just mashing buttons and hope something works. Even if they do learn the rules, I think the fact you can't just grab a deck like Dragonmaid and have fun back and forths with people would be enough of an issue to push people away from playing, because I doubt everyone wants to learn the meta just to enjoy the game.

[@AshBlossomWorshiper]

1:15:45 Cimo. You forgot the best part: It finally got banned THE LIST AFTER someone topped worlds with mystic mine burn. So it quite literally came full circle before Konami went "ah... yeeeaaaahhhh...."

[@absollum]

Only other card I can think that had a similar thing happen was pre-errata Cyberse Dragon.

[@augustgremaud2738]

“That’s fucked up” while Rarran looks dead-eyed at Super Poly actually had me cackling 😂

[@Dionisisdenis]

The moment he said "Holy f*ck that's a lot of text" i knew which guy was coming up lmao

[@zanpakutoman4225]

I was expecting "Inspector Boarder".

[@Linosek279]

@@zanpakutoman4225 Same, honestly

[@johnryanjosey6368]

I was expecting Endymion

[@Verdant_Flare]

Reading this comment makes me think we'll see a special friend from junior journey

[@SuperMophie]

1:05:03 For the record 5 years of suffering isn't "Quickly banned"

[@joooja]

FIVE YEARS??

[@zululclap5613]

I’ll take Imperial Order over Mystic Mine anytime 100%

[@kayholl3548]

@@zululclap5613 Speak for yourself mate, this card still gives me knightmares -- from definitely not a Striker player

[@zululclap5613]

@@kayholl3548 Imperial order has more counter play than a deck built around Mystic Mine does, we both know it. But they are both cancer.

[@ivanmaterazzo2631]

​@@zululclap5613nah dude. Single copy mine would be bad but not even close to Imperial Order degeneracy. Mine is a going second card or at best a reactive card if you consider metaverse/demise of the land. IO demolishes every spell based strategy and it's an unfair going first advantage in general. Heck, Anti Spell should sound more fair but we got to the point it had to be hit as well.

[@Doom1491]

The card Rarran asked to play around is Nibiru and the Field Spell is a compass rose

[@barryfraser831]

59:00 Its important to know Super Poly is an anime card. It was designed to be the ultimate weapon of big bad. It was designed with the explicit purpose of being unfair and hard to deal with. So the game design wasn't actually part of the process. Granted plenty of anime cards have been massively nerfed.

[@basty_gaming5750]

Also, Yuri uses it in Arc V

[@sasir2013]

@@basty_gaming5750 predaplants were built around using it. There's a reason as to why their fusions are so generic and they have effects to change the opponent's attributes

[@iuader8646]

Like it was mentioned, the card was fine until they decided to custom print generic superpoly fusiontargets.

[@altacc5116]

@@sasir2013 Now I just wish the predaplant fusion spell was good

[@sasir2013]

@@altacc5116 ¿? it is, I've used it extensively when playing the archetype.

[@georgeforbus1313]

Cimo wojacking at the camera after hearing Rarran's mystic mine take was the funniest shit

[@digitaltailsmon4096]

I’m dying watching that just him swearing without saying it. He’s so good at this.

[@clarosk2518]

1:08:42 "Mystic Mine is a really well designed card." Cimoooo: !JDFUHHFOAWSKJREWAHFSHJWEAFRSDHSFWAIH?!?!!??!?!!?

[@Greg501-]

It is though, it forces the monster heavy meta to play more "bad cards," thus reducing the power celling. But I guess people would rather play Fiendsmith Snake-Eye at full power

[@if7723]

@@Greg501- I feel every time someone says "this card is broken" is because it doesn't let them turbo win without its existence.

[@aoikishi99]

@@if7723 yea they would rather have their tiktok zoomer combo, than try to slow down a bit and sip some coffee, but no, lets ban all the cards that counter combo, and lets play all the combo cards without having to tech in some other cards.

[@elandydelve1]

Alex's reaction was exactly mine at home ngl 😂😂😂😂

[@JunkSync]

@@if7723 that's exactly what mystic mine was used for tho, letting players auto win just because of its existence

[@AJEsspee]

Skill drain as a Hearthstone card would be a paladin aura that said silence all minions

[@M0torsagmannen]

isn't silence more a priest thing?

[@iamthereddemon20]

There's that one solo adventure boss with a hero power that silences everything

[@vaspeter2600]

You'd have to add that battlecries cannot trigger, too. And honestly, if it was a symmetrical effect and it worked like all other aura spells in HS (as in, it blows itself up after a set number of turns) it probably wouldn't even be that strong, just annoying

[@alexanderblixt1221]

@@vaspeter2600 It for sure would have to be costed at 1 or 2 mana, and it would still need blizzard to start printing high-stated "Can't attack" minions again to make it viable. If it was printed back when the "Can't attack" minions actually had above curve stats, it could have been decent.

[@lmr4403]

Don't forget that with Master Peace, if you tributed a trap, you can activate skill drain and master peace would be unaffected by skill drain.

[@fosterdawson7339]

The faces Cimo made during Rarran talking about Mystic Mine were HILARIOUS

[@kyletucker3811]

"Fair and balanced." - Rarran on Mystic Mine, probably.

[@eroslampitella2629]

6:50 rarran forgetting about reno lone ranger existence

[@marowakcity3727]

I thought he was talking about reno

[@scythermantis]

Cimo is so traumatized by Master Peace that he thinks he's a "Dracoslayer" and not a "True Draco".

[@legeul]

Skill drain is currently run in snake-eyes fiendsmith in the OCG so right now it's being run by a tier 1 deck.

[@TrueCyprien]

It was also very prominently used by Qliphort

[@nickjoseph77]

I like how these videos seem more like conversations about cards and the meta and design than just a game show of can you outsmart the host. 3 cards in 30 minutes but you feel fulfilled by the discussion. ❤

[@pastaking3639]

Shifter is toxic because it can beat the best deck, but it absolutely smothers rogue decks.

[@vaspeter2600]

"Objection is the only card in HS that can prevent a battlecry from going off" *sad Blademaster Okani noises*

[@MiyaoMeow588]

You forgot one recent quirk of Skill Drain is how specific decks nowadays are interacting with it. Decks like Snake-Eyes and White Woods send cards from the field as cost for their effects, which essentially gives these decks the ability to turn off their own Skill Drain at any time The thing about D Shifter is that it doesn't just counter Snake Eye. It kills 80% of decks at the lower level as well.

[@AlphaSquadZero]

Cimo may not be up to date on the latest lines

[@syrelian]

That was brought up, mentioning cards that can tribute themselves

[@Psynapseful]

​@@syrelian that's not what miyaomeow meant. The mentioned decks can send Skill Drain (or Anti-Spell, or whatever else) for cost with many of their engine cards. They can remove their own floodgates with a dozen searchable cards in their deck, which means in practice, they play with the advantage of one-sided floodgates.

[@syrelian]

@@Psynapseful Oh shit yeah, I did misunderstand that, fuckin Snake-Eye

[@Honerkamp]

​@@Psynapseful They basically play vanitys emptyness with multiple different floodgate effects

[@halomaxus]

Maxx "C" can be a lose condition if someone is crazy enough to say "challenge accepted"

[@Cillranchello]

I haven't been able to deck someone out with Rikka Sunavalon but that hasn't stopped me from trying!

[@stef4oben88]

@@Cillranchello left arm offering, into card destruction, I did it once! And a super long cyberse combo

[@codybent2729]

Watching people shotgun maxx c into trickster is always a joy to watch

[@xolotltolox7626]

I once had a guy try to deck me after I maxx c'd him(he was on six sams) thankfully I had a droll eventually lol

[@noble0155]

i've won a bunch of times. one guy rage quit when his nibiru didn't work lol

[@mrcaos999]

Super Polymerization was a stable in a shad doll deck. Because all they needed was monster to have attributes. it was so much fun to just say: "nice fire monster you have their. Would be a pity if it becomes a doll."^^

[@ChaoticMeatballTV]

Stevie Blunder mentioned in a Cimo video was not on what I expected during the Maxx C discussion lmao

[@SDREHXC]

I’m almost positive I’ve heard cimo talk about him at least once before this as well. Rarran has a bunch of content with him, of course.

[@dcoker9738]

I don't think they have much interaction however Stevie has been known to be the drama tuber in the Yu-Gi-Oh community so that's why a lot of yugitubers don't collab with him that much and he just edit for Farfa and MBT for a while ​@@PrestigeHobo

[@SpearMKW]

Chaotic you're the Pokémon guy, do you by any chance have data on the playrate of Pokémon Catcher during the BW era (pre coinflip errata)? Just out of curiosity if its anywhere close to the earth insect's 90%

[@HopUpOutDaBed]

@@SpearMKW not him but I played back then. The only thing stopping Catcher from being a 4x in every deck was cost. At its peak it was a $20 card, and that's pretty absurd for a card that's not even a rare (uncommon). So you'd see people play "only" 2 copies because they didn't want to spend $80 on a play set. I would imagine a lot of Pokemon cards reached 90%+ from a competitive standpoint as staples like Professor Sycamore, N, and catcher were in virtually every deck. I don't have the numbers but I would be surprised if it was below that.

[@aka_Ingmar]

​@@dcoker9738hmm maybe if didn't freeboot for a while it wouldn't have been so bad

[@iamalsopropaganda]

Rarran’s idea of a cool minigame makes me think he’d like Chicken Game. That card doesn’t exactly work out as intended either but its 100% better than Mystic Mine

[@PolluxTheBat]

17:08 it's funny that you mentioned the Pokemon card game while talking about skill drain, because the deck that just won worlds was essentially four skill drains on legs

[@ragenaros4475]

52:50 he is obviously talking about Nibiru 😂, how did u not get it

[@Landgraf43]

or he means goddess because its a link 5 and it could out masterpeace

[@ragenaros4475]

Nah def nibiru, cuz raran said: his chat was caunting something, + nibiru is way more used than Goddess ​@@Landgraf43

[@catfan913]

​@@Landgraf43yeah but you can't play around goddess with a certain endboard

[@cedlap]

i was there during the streams its nib

[@winter9348]

Goddess. Nib can't out Master Peace specifically, but i'd believe he is actually talking about nib but he's just remembering how it goes

[@Alex-u4w4q]

“Mystic Mine seems like a really well designed card” alright Jeff Leonard you’re not fooling anyone you can take off the Rarran shaped mask now

[@NattyZepko]

I love Rarran so much, he's such a cool guy. He's so fun to watch, when he's breaking down his opinion on a card

[@DekuLord]

On the topic of "Who should the cards be fun for?" I think the answer I lean most towards is that cards should be fun for the person playing them, BUT they should not prevent the opponent from being able to have fun playing their cards. You can have cards that stop an opponent playing a card like Counterspell, because that specific interaction can be really fun for the player deciding when is the right time to use it. The issue is when you start making things like an all counterspell deck, or a card that shuts out the opponent from being able to play the game at all.

[@Jawsome-ou9ke]

The problem with D shifter is that 90% of decks use the graveyard in some way, so it’s not only a hard counter to the best deck, but it there’s no reason to play decks that aren’t as good as the best deck but still lose to the same cards. Off I and many other still play rogue decks, but it feels bad to lose all of the time

[@rangingaway92]

Ah mystic mine - you ef me, then I ef you.

[@awesometubing9471]

If Konami just banned Field Barrier and Beat Cop Mystic Mine wouldn't be as busted

[@shakeweller]

It would stilll be broken ​@@awesometubing9471

[@Zologe]

I like Rarran's take on Mystic Mine, because his thought process is probably not too dissimilar from the Original designers idea behind the effect. Yugioh players are just quick to find holes in these ideas and run the card in the most toxic way possible lmfao

[@eleonarcrimson858]

33:53 the card also hits the majority of decks that arent even snake eyes.

[@Erekt0]

Yeah shifter isn’t toxic because it beats snake eyes it’s toxic because it effectively reads skip your opponent’s turn against 60% of decks

[@folcra]

Yeah if your combo requires the grave, thats dead if your opponent plays shifter

[@doublereel-real]

@@folcra in some cases even if your combo doesn't use grave resouces but just sends it's cards to the grave it might get stopped by shifter. Cards that specify where they should be sent for cost can't activate under shifter for example. Bascically anything that says "Send this card from you hand to you GY." Can't activate because they cannot be sent to grave even though it's a cost.

[@folcra]

@@doublereel-real oh yeah i forgot about that. That makes it even worse.

[@GiuliaGinik]

Because the game itself is trash, that's all It's GY hate for a single turn, that's all. Any non trash game wouldn't care about that even if you were playing a GY strategy

[@aaabbbccc1939]

Max c, imperial order, and mystic mine was shown to Rarran by stevie blunder

[@CoreysCards]

Always happy to see a Rarran crossover

[@travismacpherson3318]

Rarran: Mystic Mine is a well designed card. Cimo: Re-enacts Peter Griffin eating a rice cake.

[@ExSpectre]

“The only card in the game that stopped battlecries was Objection” *Cries in Blademaster Okami*

[@johnstegeman7122]

Surprised Cimo didn’t mention field barrier/goddess skuld’s oracle/cursed seal of the forbidden spell during the mystic mine discussion. One of the few backrow floodgates in yugioh so good that the entire deck could be built around protecting it and still be completely viable as a strategy

[@NickersonGeneral]

I think the issue i have with cards like Dimension Shifter and Maxx C isn't that they JUST hose toxic meta decks, they hose a TON of decks, possibly the majority of playable decks. Replace Snake-Eyes with a more fun top tier meta threat, and there's an 8/10 chance that Shifter blanks it just as hard.

[@wyomingptt]

I think the words Cimo was looking for while explaining why some floodgates are hated is "lingering effect". An effect that you either negate right there on the spot or have to deal with it for the rest of your turn.

[@Z-one1000]

Kaiser Colosseum + Dark Simorgh + Anti-Spell Fragrance. Now THAT is a toxic with a capital T.

[@scarletterose1303]

Fun fact: Kaiser Colosseum currently sees play in Salamangreat in MD! Why you may ask? Because of the ruling of floodgates being able to see into the future, you cannot activate Nibiru the Primal Being on your opponent while Kaiser Colosseum is in effect UNLESS your opponent controls a monster that would not be tributes by Nibiru's activation (face down monster, unaffected monster, cannot be tributes like Quintet Magician). It makes no sense, it really shouldn't work that way, but Konami says it does so it does.

[@doctorgamer1292]

​@@scarletterose1303I thought they just banned it in master duel?

[@ratoh1710]

@@doctorgamer1292 Yeah, it was banned in July

[@pfeilinger4463]

@@scarletterose1303 it's okay i also spread a little bit misinformation sometimes

[@RazielTheUnborn]

​@@scarletterose1303But the Nibiru still wouldn't summon itself since it tributes nothing.

[@FrostyArca9]

All the Cimo faces during the mystic mine discussion deserve to be displayed somewhere

[@psittacus7178]

Something that wasn't mentioned in the video is that one of the most toxic things about Shifter is that all the counters to it except one (Psy-Framegear Gamma) can't stop Shifter if your opponent shotguns it going first.

[@Eddiegames9]

skill drain *when you can play around it* is honestly one of the most satisfying things you can do in yugioh, and im glad cimoo highlighted it, the main issue is that they other 60% of decks just get shut out lol

[@ahirugaodoreru]

"tribute 5" that sounds more like Nibiru than a Kaiju. I think maybe he was thinking of Nibiru.

[@jaymesonshaw9471]

I think he was being told about Underworld Goddess. She's the first card I thought of when I heard that anyway

[@ahirugaodoreru]

@@jaymesonshaw9471 That can only use one card your opponent controls as link material.

[@d007ization]

I love how magic jammer and imperial order are from the same time period.

[@revdev5511]

Why is this so interesting, watched all of them

[@DJ-vx9gl]

I really really love these vids hope they keep coming!

[@carstan62]

I wish I could see Rarran's reaction while you're talking about the nitty gritty stuff, but you always have the camera on the person actually speaking.

[@chaslyndrilling7380]

Cimo and Rarran really have the best chemistry. Love watching both their videos together.

[@laytonjr6601]

"Neither player can activate effects in response" exists in MtG as the keyword "split second" on 22 cards Jinzo sees play in side boards from time to time. Imperial Order got banned, errataed, and banned again. The continuous spell that negates all monster effects has never been printed because it's obviously too strong. Funny how card types work that way.

[@airlock7367]

and for that matter: the closest thing to a Skill Drain-esque monster is archetype-locked and clunky; Spell Canceller has never been used or banner whatsoever, but being a one-tributer probably helped keep it useless; there is also not to my knowledge a continuous spell that negates traps or other spells; and Royal Decree was at worst semi-limited but was never really that big of a problem anyway

[@laytonjr6601]

@@airlock7367 Trap that negates traps: Royal Decree Monster that negates traps: Jinzo Spell that negates traps: Talisman of Trap Sealing (only work if you control Sealmaster Meisei), I'm not counting equip spells. Trap that negates monsters: Skill Drain Monster that negates monsters: ??? Spell that negates monsters: ??? Trap that negates spells: Imperial Order Monster that negates spells: Spell Canceller Spell that negates spells: ???

[@alexandrubragari1537]

There are a few monsters that negates monsters but the only on the top of my mind is plasma and board inspector (prrvents activations so its different tecnically)

[@doublereel-real]

@@laytonjr6601 Another spell that negates spells is red reboot. Technically it's a trap but it's used like a spell in every situation. Monster that negates monsters depends on what exactly you mean. If you mean monster skill drain then performapal 5 rainbow magician is very similar although it's in the pend zone so you might say it's a spell.

[@SeviCZ]

Blademaster Okani can also negate a Battlecry and then, thanks to him, Shudderwock, or Parrot can do it as well.

[@amethonys2798]

Master Peace could go to 3 and see absolutely 0 play. The deck it is in has received several indirect hits (namely a BUNCH of draw power like Card of Demise and then all the floodgate) and Master Peace is 10x easier to out in modern Yu-Gi-Oh. 2950 ATK is significantly easier to out now than like 9 years ago or whenever it came out. Master Peace had less outs by battle naturally when he was banned (we're talking like mainly just S39) and decks couldn't play through their Normal Summon getting popped as easily. Furthermore, Master Peace was usually also backed up by like Rivalry or Gozen or whatever other floodgate making it harder to actually get a big enough idiot on board. The floodgates are at one, and decks can easily throw a random 3k idiot on board pretty easily nowadays. Like are we unironically using the Master Peace pop on a Flamberge threatening it in battle phase and the opponent still going +1?

[@MonochromaticPrism]

53:10 The chat was probably talking about Nibiru.

[@itsnottylor4011]

I think that Rarran is 100% correct about Shifter. With a format like Yugioh's where there is one by and far best deck that can be played, a one card counter to that exact deck is absolutely a necessary evil. The less people play decks that Shifter hits, the worse Shifter is, and the less it gets played. Shifter is only good in an unhealthy metagame, so it's only played in an unhealthy metagame, and that should be a red flag to Konami to make more diverse decks to fix the metagame.

[@quint2568]

Yup. Theres a reason i dusted off slifer. Solely to kill snake eyes. Completely ruins their game plan.

[@Yoran507]

The problem with cards like Shifter is that they practically have no counter-play. What can you do when your opponent drops Shifter against you? Just change decks in the middle of a duel?

[@Chestyfriend]

You can make the exact same argument for maxx C though.

[@NickersonGeneral]

But thats not true. There are a TON of decks that get hosed by Shifter that aren't toxic in the slightest, and there are many toxic decks that don't.

[@hawkmoon5343]

Shifter is not a tech card you play to beat a certain deck, or at least it hasn't been for a while now. It's a blowout card that only a handful of decks can play because the graveyard has been an important part of yugioh for It's entire lifespan. The fact that the effect is reciprocal and lasts for 2 turns completely kills it's viability as the card you claim it is

[@andrewlikesmetal1095]

Rarran, I appreciate your input on yugioh as a game. Your content on yugioh coming from a game like hearthstone that makes sense is hilarious and invaluable my friend.

[@Fanofstuff]

its interesting because skill drain is probably one of the most skill intensive toxic cards, especially in older yuigoh,since cards like book of moon and enemy controller (etc) were played quite a bit. Nowadays its just broken, however when the pace of the game was slower, you had much more time to find answers like heavy storm, mst, book of moons/enemy controller to play around.

[@Chimeraeateverything]

Is mst still good? I played heavily maybe 8 yrs ago and remember when every single deck ran it. I quit after pendulums released as that one deck was even more annoying than nekroz.

[@ijveraar3795]

​@@Chimeraeateverything MST doesn't see a lot of play because there are a lot of spell/traps that do something in the GY. There is a quickplay spell that's called "Cosmic Cyclone" that makes you pay 1000 to banish a spell/trap, and that card does see a lot of play.

[@Fanofstuff]

@@Chimeraeateverything no mst is never played, they power crept it with twin twister, “discard 1 card, target up to 2 s/t and destroy” But no one runs that either, the only hard spell trap removal ran now, is either harpies feather duster or cosmic cyclone Cosmic cyclone is pay 1k target a s/t and banish it and both are only sided and format dependant

[@Chimeraeateverything]

@@Fanofstuff harpies feather duster isn’t banned? I remember it being an old card. I might get back into yugioh honestly, my favorite archetype was madolche but I doubt that’s still good. The kaijus are super sick though, but they look similar to dragon rulers and I’m traumatized by those.

[@yubarta1]

@@Chimeraeateverything Rulers are halfway to being at 3 everywhere and they aren't doing anything in any format btw

[@KomoliRihyoh]

Rarran's Bloomburrow box in the background is making me hype. We're gonna get this lad addicted to *all* the card games!!!

[@carstan62]

Around the conversation following Shifter, and tech cards universally winning the game in any card game, the difference for YuGiOh is that everything is decided on turn 1 or 2. In other card games, you have multiple turns to draw off the top of your deck to get into a card that'll pull you out of the hole, but that no longer exists in modern YGO. That existed in older YGO, and it's part of why a lot of these cards like Skill Drain were tolerable back then. If your opponent flipped Skill Drain on you, you likely still had like 4 turns to draw into a card that got rid of Skill Drain and let you try to come back. Now, if your answer isn't in your opening 5 or 6 cards, you just lose on the spot. Which is so statistically bad, that it's arguably not even worth including those cards in your deck, because they will lower consistency the rest of the time, and still almost never show up when you actually do need them.

[@ohmygoddiosmio9138]

spot on, yugioh is actually just a deck building into opening hand simulator game, having one turn negated is often gg and you get otk after

[@syrelian]

It depends a lot on the decks, we're seeing a transition towards decks that can endure some negates and shift into a grindy resource game with inevitability, rather than hard OTK plans, Skill Drain still washes them because the grind game comes from both sides being able to put up enough resources turn after turn until someone manages to break the keystones or just outlast, rather than just slow gameplay of "tee set pass"

[@shawnjavery]

Honestly this feels half true at best. Decks don't run removal cards because they don't have to, you can achieve similar ends with just in engine cards. Flood gates rarely just decide a game then and there, but in combination with the rest of the hand is often dehabilitating. Something like the current problems with the format comes from SE being incredible hard to deal with and then being able to flip a skill drain if you can stop it or you try to break their board.

[@bensell982]

It is also worth mentioning that Mystic Mine is a field spell. Meaning it's the second easiest to searvh out type of spell card. It existing in the game caused Metaverse, which for years was just considered a worse version of Teraforming, to be limited because it let you activate Mystic Mine on your opponent's turn.

[@luneth7777]

Dark Simorgh, Kaiser Colosseum, Anti-Spell fragrance in a gusto shaddoll deck used to be one of my favorites back in the HAT format days

[@ConeJellos]

3:18 to add to that, at the time of the video's release, Zilliax (the card rarran is talking about) is 'only' showing up in 46.5% of decks.

[@majidoujaa5592]

the biggest issue with shifter as a floodgate compared to say dark law or macro cosmos is that it's a hand trap, if you don't instantly answer it, you are fresh out of luck and you HAVE to deal with it, while the others you can out the cards and get your grave back online

[@chimpmasterflex]

That shifter discussion is what more of these kinds of videos need. I would've been fine if that was the rest of the video tbh.

[@8XHuXBgkok]

The series concept is really good and entertaining, but Cimo is probably not the best qualified person to explain the significance of some of these cards, especially in the context of modern yugioh. His account of Super Poly was atrocious. He gives an impression that Super Poly is a pure going second card, which is wrong. The card is also very oppressive when the first turn player sets it and uses it in the opponent's turn.

[@torbergqvist8151]

Yeah and it is absolutely not a fun or healthy card to exist. It is absolutely the card I've personally hated the most when I played.

[@m0002856]

I think the thing Rarran is forgetting about Kaiser is that like… you can go first, pop off with a combo, summon one big boss monster with protection and/or negation effects and then what? Your opponent can synchro or XYZ or Link anything higher than a link one (if even that- I don’t know the ruling on whether or not you’re allowed to link summon because I know there are some rulings on cards where, because you’re currently in a state where you are not allowed to summon, you’re not even allowed to initiate a link summon even though the one monster on your field would be sent to the GY for the summon). It basically can turn you going first into not only you going second BUT you going second and your opponent effectively having a brick hand because they can only play a single guy. And then there’s nothing stopping you from just popping off next turn and winning.

[@jordanmoore730]

53:00 nibiru?

[@Mage_Nichlas_]

Rarran's Maxx "C" change sounds really interesting as a concept with a little tweaking. My edition would be: "You can only activate 1 of this card's effects per turn. ●During your End Phase: You can send this card from your hand to the Graveyard; For your next Draw Phase, Draw cards equal to the number of times your opponent Special Summoned a Monster(s) during your opponent's turn after this card was activated, instead of your Normal Draw. ●During your Standby Phase: You can send this card from your hand to the Graveyard; this turn, each time your opponent Special Summons a Monster(s), immediately draw 1 card. You can only use 1 "Maxx "C"" per turn." I'm not saying this would be fair but this doesn't have the same issues as regular Maxx "C" where your opponent can't drop it out of nowhere and they aren't drawing into Handtraps while you are performing your turn. If you wanna use Maxx "C", it must be activated on your turn. If your opponent plays on your turn, use it in the Standby Phase as regular Maxx "C" to disincentivise them heavier for popping off as you gain more cards to immediately play. If your opponent plays on their turn, they know Maxx "C" is active before they even draw their card for turn and you aren't getting your cards until your turn. Even if you have 2 of them, you legally can't cover both your turn and your opponent's turn.

[@StonedDragons]

the meta sheep playing snake-eyes crying seems like a good reason to keep D-shifter legal.

[@doublereel-real]

I play predaplants, my deck and 90% of all rogue decks lose to shifter. Why should so many decks have to suffer just for S.E..

[@user-ow1bc4sx2r]

16:51 this is true but also hearthstone has the advantage of easily changing cards that they fuck up. So even when they do end up creating this sort of game state, they can get out of it without needing a ban, and in modern post-Ben brode hearthstone, nerfs tend to happen on a schedule faster than ban lists in other games

[@robertbauerle5592]

The competitive scene for commander in magic has some cards on the "Maxx C percentile" as well - a few colorless cards, and also some cards are well above the 90th percentile when checked if they're played in their color identity (commander decks cannot play red cards unless their commander has a color identity of red, same with each other color). Someone created an entire spreadsheet of statistics from a bunch of cEDH tournaments. I believe mana crypt was almost 100%, sol ring was just under mana crypt. Dockside was at 100% in the red color pie, mystic remora was at almost 100% in the blue color pie. There were a few lands at almost 100%, and command tower was played in 100% of decks that were more than 1 color. The lands are not really problematic, as they're ubiquity is not format impacting. Mana crypt, sol ring, remora, and most definitely dockside, are indeed format warping. Most notably dockside. Dockside actually has an effect that is similar to maxx C - both of them massively punish your opponent for performing certain "game actions", at little to no cost for the player of the card doing the punishing. Maxx C punishes special summoning, dockside punishes playing artifacts and/or enchantments. Fast mana is a requirement for the format, similar to how special summoning is a requirement to yugioh. If you do not play the cards that enable it, you simply lose too much tempo/advantage. Almost all fast mana cards, including sol ring and mana crypt, are artifacts, meaning players will always play them, resulting in maxx C and dockside simply being absurdly broken cards in almost all scenarios that you see them.

[@jrandula]

MtG: Allow me to introduce Split Second ability :D(In response to Super Poly :D): Static ability that reads: If this card is on stack, no more cards or abilitites can be added(Well you can still tap for mana but thats that). Fun stuff :D

[@emptymilkcarton3361]

34:40 i dont think the issue with shifter is that is hoses the best deck, it also hoses like 80% of rouge strategies. I would argue the ability to play shifter was and still is one of kashtira's biggest strengths. The GY is so ubiquitous that shifter is absolutely broken

[@jaeusa160]

You'll have to show Rarran the whole Gagagigo lore some time. XD

[@TyTrouts]

Maxx "C" is the Rhystic Study of Yu-gi-oh

[@jimryanor6616]

Nah, rhystic has a mana cost and cant be played at instant speed. You can also pay the tax.

[@Pistolsatsean]

This is so wrong it is egregious, Rhystic Study is not a competitive card. When it was legal, the top decks were Tinker combo, Replenish Combo, And land destruction featuring Plow Under and Rishadan Port. GL playing Rhystic Study against a turn 1 Port lmfao

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@jimryanor6616 The analogy is perfect... the "correct" play is usually to not be greedy, that's how you beat Rhystic Study. But it's not ALWAYS to not be greedy, you have to judge how greedy you can be by how cracked your play is about to be.

[@6slade]

​@@Pistolsatsean I get what you mean, but this is clearly in reference to how Rhystic plays in Commander and not how it was in Standard. Max C was also not immediately seen as powerful either.

[@Pistolsatsean]

@@6slade well it's not like there is a similar format in Yugi-Oh, so a bit weird to use that as a comparison. And regardless I'm pretty sure Cedh prefers Mystic Remora to Rhystic, judging a cards power from a casual by design format is pretty silly.

[@RyokoAsakuraLastFan]

"2006 when Fusion Summoning was bad with no good archetype..." Elemental Heroes, Cyber Dragon, Dragons and Gladiator Beasts have some words for you

[@mufasa5851]

Anyone that argues that dimensional shifter is more egregious than a tier 0 meta is on Stockholm syndrome.

[@johnstegeman7122]

Cimo: “Skill drain was never really part of a tier 1 meta contender” True Draco in 2017-2018: 😢

[@SeveNStarSeveN]

Rarran was talking about Underworld Goddess in the Master Peace section.

[@Dragonfire-gq4qd]

I think he was talking about Nib (his chat saying he should play around it and so on)

[@RealLockheedMartin]

I think he was talking about the 5 summon counter on Nibiru.

[@animeshowfan8145]

i truly believe every time rarran makes one of this videos with you the more hes glad he stopped playing yugioh learning about all are games bullshit

[@theshinobigamer5737]

52:55 weird way to put it but I’m pretty sure Rarran is referencing Nib here

[@nickjoseph77]

I loved playing a skill drain deck with all the big effect monsters that had drawbacks in the world tour video game.

[@menekenkack]

You can tell that Farfa was coaching Rarran, because you need some "Farfa's Twitch Chat" levels of brainworms to come up with that Mystic Mine take

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Or just a basic understanding of how card games work. Mystic Mine is extremely well designed. It's not all that oppressive, but it can buy you some time if you're desperate. It can't really be abused in a meaningful way. Your opponent has literally all of the power in deciding the effect Mystic Mine has on the game. All in all, it's kinda just a weaker version of Swords of Revealing Light.

[@doublereel-real]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 It definitely can be and has been abused. A good example is using mystic mine to stun your opponent until you have combo in hand, then removing it with your own backrow removal. Or mystic mine stun, which uses mystic mine to stall for time while it accomplishes an alternate win condition. As for mystic mine vs Swords of revealing light, I don't see how it's worse in any way tbh. Like, yes swords of revealing light doesn't restrict you as well, but when you activate skill drain you usually have a plan to get more out of it than your opponent. As for your opponent deciding how much mystic mine impacts the match, I'm not really sure what you mean, since just by actiavting it you can stop your opponent from gaining any kind of meaningful advantage, whether by comboing or by starting a resouce loop.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@doublereel-real In what way is using a card strategically abusive? Or rather... if we consider the use of fundamentally basic strategies in a game as an abuse, then why are we pretending that this is a game at all?

[@RazielTheUnborn]

The thing about Kaiser Coliseum that was missed is that it was normally paired with anti backrow as well such as Anti Spell Fragrance. If Kaiser came off the banlist, it would be worse Centur-Ion would LOVE Kaiser as they can protect it with Auxila. Auxila is protected by Primera. Unless you get a banish card, which most backrow/monster responses are destruction, you aren't getting rid of the lock and then the Centur-ion would go for the kill Turn 3.

[@ratiuvictor9533]

Finaly someone agrees with me. That's a well designed card😂😂😂

[@koulee4080]

Only Tearlaments players like that format… I didn’t enjoy 20 minute turns and then all of my cards get negated… but on the Shifter related meta, Kashtira format WAS an interactive format, combo players just didn’t like it cuz the best deck was a control deck. And the description of Mystic Mine only made it that much more of a necessary card. With games ending on turn 0 and 1 card being able to extend it and give every archetype before 2017 a chance… it was a necessary evil. In TeamSam and Pak’s banlist video with Nesh, skilled players can’t win 100% of the time or else the game would be dead. Lower skilled players need a chance too and this card gave all players a chance.

[@charmikyu2156]

I feel like the argument that got ignored for D-shifter is that it doesn't do what Rarran thinks either. It doens't curb how many Yubel or Snake-eye decks you see, because statistically, you're still more likely to not see it 2/3 than you are to see it 2/3. TCG players don't work around determent, they work around statistical value. Snake-eye is the best deck -> You are more likely to win with it even if you account for shifter decks -> You play snake-eye -> Shifter decks are cancerous for the game as a result.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Small problem with your analysis there... the correct conclusion is that "Snake-eye decks are cancerous for the game". That's the logically consistent sequence there.

[@timbombadil4046]

Magic has a card like skill drain called humility. It's basically the same but would *also* reduce each monster to 400 attack/defense (1/1 in magic terms)

[@dahakaguardianofthetimelin4780]

I wish that for once Cimoooooooo or whoever else spams these "X guesses how good Yugioh cards are" format videos would just gaslight the guest by giving them 10 broken and permabanned cards and being like "This card's actually really bad if you draw the out" and "If you lose to this card, it's basically a skill issue", to better demonstrate the level of discourse that's brewing regularly about the game in the playerbase

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

The MtG community calls that meme "But it dies to Doom Blade".

[@SaneGhoul]

Stumbling made me remember the Gagagigo lore. A video showing a nonYugioh player some of the lore behind stuff like that and Ojamas and whatnot would be fun.

[@MG-po6jc]

''Maxx C was released in 2011-2012'' but the card art was made in 1996? I dont play Yugioh but what's up with that?

[@CrisReed2]

The copyright thing at the bottom of the cards is for the whole Yu-Gi-Oh trademark, not the art of the card itself

[@phstingray205]

1996 is reffering to the copyright of yugioh in general, not the card art. Kazuki Takahashi was the author of Yugioh. RIP

[@MG-po6jc]

Oh gotcha, that makes sense then. Thanks you two!

[@ohmygoddiosmio9138]

keep up the good show, fantastic chemistry