Heat Pump Quote from British Gas - Process from the start to getting my Vaillant Arotherm Plus

In this video i'll go through the process of engaging with British Gas and all the steps along the way to getting a heat pump installed.
I'll take you through pages of documents that go into the decision.
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My system :
Vaillant Arotherm Plus 7kW
200L UniStor Cylinder
45L Buffer
140sqM Detached 1997 built house
10mm copper microbore pipework downstairs
Installed by British Gas in November 2023

[@seatonian]

Thanks for taking the time to share your ASHP / BG journey - appreciated.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment. Glad it was helpful.

[@Ben-gm9lo]

Awesome content, really useful for those of us on the cusp and in a similar position. Thanks for the detail and sharing the costs.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment. Glad it was helpful.

[@m0aze611]

Great content - very interested thank you

[@UpsideDownFork]

You're welcome. Thanks for your comment.

[@alexhall1841]

Good videos - the 1.75 Cop on the cylinder is a generic figure that is to be quoted from a SAP table

[@AlanTov]

Just had a British Gas ASHP quote of £14k (after grant). 7 year old 4 bed new build. Everything seems over spec 10kw valliant, all 13 radiators replaced. Lots of emphasis on their ‘warm home promise’. Seems too high … I should add this wasn’t a surveyor but a British Gas pre sales guy who assessed the house for 2 hours then gave the quote which he suggested wouldn’t change much when the surveyor came).

[@UpsideDownFork]

Wow, that sounds excessive!

[@stuartornum]

Great video! British Gas came around and did the full survey, by the way they (BG) are VERY aware of your videos and were waiting for this one to land, I was talking to the surveyor that was doing my heat loss assessment and he mentioned your surveyor was particularly interested in your experience!! My experience: BG are incredibly risk adverse in regards to HPs, putting in a 7kW HP instead of 5kW is to avoid bad press, the last thing they want is the Daily Mail doing a piece on them with your cold house… So, what happened with my survey… took about 4 hours and right at the end asked to see my water stop cock… then mentioned 15mm pipe on the water might be a showstopper… confirmed the next day that BG can no longer proceed with the install due to mains water feed being 15mm… which I find really disappointing as the water pressure in the house is amazing even when running two showers simultaneously…

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment. Ouch, sorry to hear that you spent 4 hours to be tripped up on something that seems trivial. I definitely got the vibes of BG being risk adverse throughout the process. Our surveyor was quite through with testing our water flow rate at multiple taps. I can't fault the surveyor (think his name was Liam from memory) he did a thorough job and was patient with me too! Not everything ran smoothly but the final outcome is a well functioning heating system at a bargain price. Interesting that they're aware of this little video series. It wasn't supposed to turn into a BG spotlight, but that seemed to really spark most people's interest more so than the other aspects of changing to a heat pump that I originally intended to cover.

[@stuartornum]

@@UpsideDownFork there are only 12 (HP) surveyors in the whole of the UK and they all speak on a group chat. They are aware of Heat Geeks and Urban Plumbers and seem to genuinely want to do a good job and are very interested in learning! However, I feel they are doing this with one hand tied behind their back (big corporate policies being pushed down on them).

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@stuartornum I know that feeling well. That's why I left working for Mercedes-Benz where the corporate culture was becoming a race to the bottom in not only the quality of the product but especially in the quality of the customer service. Shame that big companies almost always struggle with that.

[@user-ci4fy2um1q]

I too didn't take much notice of the cylinder size but "luckily" I was made to take a 300l tank which I am pleased about now since the footprint is the same as smaller tanks. Having moved from a combi, I was surprised at how an overnight cheap-rate charge lasts all day and the stratification lasts too. i.e. a shower in the morning and one in the evening works fine. I do have residents who sometimes take long showers and so wanted to avoid the risk of running out of water while still charging overnight. I seem to have solved this by setting the cylinder temperature to 60C for off-peak and 40C for peak. sensoComfort doesn't allow this so I set it up in Home Assistant.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Nicely done! I need to explore the Home Assistant integration next when I can find some time! Yes, I now know that the footprint would have been the same for 250 or 300L but the buffer tank would have had to be moved to the loft or garage for a taller cylinder to fit in our existing cupboard. A sacrifice i'm more than willing to make with the benefit of hindsight! Thanks for your comment.

[@gp362148]

Thank you for the video. I am keenly watching your HP installation. My house is similar in size but I do not have the heated conservatory. I live in the SE. I made several heat loss improvements in the last few years (now EPC 92-A). I tested my condensing boiler down to 50 C flow temp even at 7 C outside temp with sufficient comfort. I top up with emersion DHW with off peak electricity or excess from PV/Tesla PW2. My own estimate shows a max heat loss of 4.5 kW. I contacted several installers. The recommended HP sizes varied from 5 kW to 14 kW. BG quoted £9,999 on the top of BUS grant (£7,500) in their first call without the survey. I am still exploring more options including Octopus.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Sounds like you're in a good position. I hope some of the information in my previous videos was helpful to you in your journey. I found heatpunk very helpful. Now i'm off work i'm busy editing my way through lots of content to get it all uploaded before I have to get back to my day job!

[@m23605]

Keep in mind that if you have an old boiler, it is highly unlikely that it can modulate down to 4.5kW. So if it can't modulate down to maintain 50 degrees C, it will either short cycle OR it will modulate down to as low as it can which means the flow temperature will creep up above the set point (depends on the boiler's internal controls). Most old boilers can go down to 6kW if you're lucky and 8kW is more realistic. Do you have any way of verifying your flow temperature is maintained at 50 degrees C? If not, you might be basing your decision on an incorrect assumption. If you are planning on keeping your boiler long enough that it needs a service, I'd ask for a heat meter to be installed which would give you a much more accurate picture of your house's heat loss (you can keep that device when you do go over to a heat pump).

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@m23605 I presume his estimate is from a heat loss survey rather than his current boiler testing.

[@m23605]

@@UpsideDownFork Sure. But a survey won't tell you anything about comfort levels. Simulating a heat pump heat source by lowering your gas boiler temperature does. Just pointing out that such simulations can be quite flawed if you have an older boiler with poor modulation controls.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@m23605 true, our comfort levels have improved massively jumping down from the 55 flow temp to a 35 degree flow temp. Low and slow is very comfortable as well as all the other benefits 👍

[@brianmorrow4494]

thanks for all the videos. Just had BG round £12k (inc grant) for a 6kw Daikin 180l Mixergy tank and replacing every rad and all pipework in the house. They said that replacing everything is now their standard policy

[@UpsideDownFork]

Ouch. I know the mixergy tank is both the most expensive option and the least efficient option but that sounds like a very expensive quote. Were there some expensive rad upgrades to do? I'm not surprised that they are quoting for full re-pipes as they have definitely been learning a lot from doing jobs like mine. Ultimately that approach whilst not pragmatic will guarantee a level of success in efficient running.

[@brianmorrow4494]

the biggest existing rad is 1600x600 K2. its guaranteeing they wont have to come back, not that its an efficient system. disappointing approah. couldnt explain why my existing 10mm system works fine at 45 degrees on the combi boiler @@UpsideDownFork

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@brianmorrow4494 I didn't mean necessarily more or less efficient in your specific situation but as a general rule of thumb, they won't run into any problems by adopting that approach. Have you received any other quotes yet?

[@brianmorrow4494]

one for £15.5k for a high temp 8kw unit that they said would be the only one to work with the 10mm pipes. getting more tempted to do the whole thing myself and ignore the grant!!@@UpsideDownFork

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@brianmorrow4494 let me know how you get on. I'd be interested to see more DIY installations! Now I've seen what's involved I feel comfortable that I could have managed it, even though it would probably take me a few weeks all in!

[@B0jangle5]

Thanks for the info. I was inclined to put off some of the remediation work like upgrading the radiators as I learned that it could be included in grant. However looking at these figures it definitely seems worth upgrading as much yourself? I'd be interested to learn more about the heat loss survey they did and how thorough you thought it was compared to your own calculations.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Yes, in hindsight I probably would have done all of the radiators myself and left just the 2 large vertical radiators for them which they definitely made a loss doing when you factor in the rad cost as well as labour. Some of the big wholesalers sell directly to the public on eBay and prices can be substantially lower than Screwfix or the like. Especially as I wanted to maximise the heat output so changed all our 600mm tall rads for either 700 or 750mm tall to get that extra output without changing pipework. From my perspective as an amateur homeowner who has no right to comment on the competence of a professional, I think the surveyor did a thorough job. He came in about 200w higher than I did, which is neither here nor there really My house structure is mostly very straightforward with little modification since built in 1996. I'm sure some houses could be a minefield!

[@andrewbellinger1135]

Do you have a separate pump for the heating side of the buffer tank? I also have microbore..

[@UpsideDownFork]

Yes, a standard pump on the heating circuit side of the buffer. You can see that in some of my previous videos. Take care!

[@willb4278]

Did you get an initial online estimate from BG & if so how did it compare to your final price?

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@willb4278 they didn't give an estimated online price when I did my enquiry.

[@Sortitoutman]

Currently in the process of this direct with heat geeks own install so very intrested. If you don`t mind, what was the total cost for everything from British Gas before BUS, as I`m getting nothing but red flags with HGs service - loads of errors made on the heat loss and proposal, and the quotes almost trippled from the original estimate for a similar property to yours.

[@UpsideDownFork]

I've been hearing that a lot in the heat pump forums. BG do seem to have really upped their prices. I think I was such an early bird before they ramped up the pricing. I have no doubt that they made a significant loss on my installation. Of course the problem with such a large company is the corporate lottery, you and I could receive either the very best or the very worst surveyor that BG has to offer.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

​@@UpsideDownForkVery interesting hearing your feedback, many thanks. As mentioned b4 BG did my install last March, same pump but with a mixergy tank for some unknown reason. Only 150L tank but only 3 in our household and its OK, usually needs a top up in the evening but it is efficient. To date my heating scop is 4.4 (design scop 3.9) and dhw is 4.1 (design 3.4) so adding the fact that most months my solar pv will top up the tank and I have a cheap night tariff its cheap to run. I also have 2 large vertex rads in the lounge but I reckon one would do, as the lounge is the warmest room in the house, I've set the trvs to 3 in there atm. BG did a good job on the whole, 13 new rads, new 22mm heating pipes with 15mm drops, buffer tank and 150L mixergy tank. Bad points were the time taken from assessment to install was 5 months so missed most of the winter and the install date put back twice due to non communication between bg and their suppliers. Also very rushed and I felt inadequate talk thru the controls at the end, a less tech customer would have struggled, they insisted on rads in two places I didn't want them and wouldn't put one in the conservatory so not too good, I suppose I could relocate one as its just the other side of a wall but maybe this will invalidate the warranty. Happy with how it's working, extremely quiet and efficient. The 5 year interest free loan clinched it for me, costing £140/mnth, do the maths..

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@MikeGleesonazelectrics yep, the 5 year interest free finance is definitely a big factor too 👍 A lot of what you describe is familiar to me from my journey. 🤔 Glad to hear it's working well for you ultimately. 👍

[@m23605]

I also had a lot of issue with a heat geek (JMR). Charged me to get a quote, price was high and I wanted a heat pump but was specced a gas boiler. Wouldn't want to discuss changes and just demanded payment for the quote. I think heat geeks are only for 1 percenters. You have to be quite wealthy to be looking at a heat pump to begin with but heat geeks are on another level of cost. Performance assurances should come from the government (like it is Germany and Nordic countries) and not from private for-profit corporations.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@m23605 That's a shame to hear.

[@robthomas7232]

Sorry I might have missed it but from my quick calcs the total on the estimate/quote page came to ~£12k. So that appears to the the cost before the grant (can't see grants mentioned on that page) so originally it would have cost £7k with the £5k grant, and then £4.5k with the increased £7.5k grant?

[@UpsideDownFork]

👍

[@robthomas7232]

@@UpsideDownFork That's a bargain then. I see you've mentioned BG have increased their prices since. Unfortunately the cynical side of me wonders if the increases were prompted by the grant increase.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@robthomas7232 maybe you're correct. Or they realised the losses they were making on installations like mine 🤔

[@robthomas7232]

@@UpsideDownFork True, although didn't the other quotes come in around £6 to 7k? Not sure if that is an apples vs apples comparison though, particularly around which grant discount was included in those?

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@robthomas7232 the other quotes were with £5k grant but didn't include the radiators in the conservatory area which was a not insignificant part of the cost, not to mention the cheaper quotes used lower end equipment and designed to a higher flow temperature of 50 degrees.

[@m23605]

If I understand correctly, you had to get planning permission to have this installed. Was there no other place with more space where you could have put a Nibe or a Viessmann? They are generally not very popular due to their size which means planning permission is a must with them. But once you are forced down that route, they have no disadvantages over the Vaillant (all they do is copy Viessmann's tech very badly).

[@UpsideDownFork]

The constraint that pushed us to the Vaillant was budget rather than space concerns. The Viessman and Nibe options were significantly more and unfortunately out of our reach.

[@BruceBrendon]

British Gas have been an absolute shambles installing an ASHP at my mother's small bungalow with UFH - simplest possible install started on 20 November, and yet to be finished properly (less than ideal for an elderly person)! VERY Disappointed. Would not recommend at all

[@UpsideDownFork]

Sorry to hear that!

[@ManChickin]

why the hell are these things so expensive, theyre just glorified aircon units. id love to have one to supplement my pv but jesus the cost even with the grant.

[@UpsideDownFork]

You've got a great point. It's the cumulative cost of the high surface area coil hot water cylinder, the outdoor unit is much higher output than most typical AC heat pumps. Then there's the additional heat exchangers and water pump. Some of them require extra hydro boxes inside too or a buffer tank. Add in that these monoblock A2W heat pumps aren't being mass produced in the volume that A2A air con units currently are. I'm sure things will change as supply begins to overtake demand. 👍

[@ManChickin]

in all honesty... most of these companies seem to be taking the grant as a bonus and charging the installation on top.