Vaillant Arotherm Plus Heat Pump Installation by British Gas

[@lordofpower4410]

It’s not that bad of a install. There’s a lot to squeeze in that cupboard. I’ve done exactly that same in mine. So I can appreciate how difficult it can be. Ive been doing this for 30 years. Over all good video. Thanks.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment. I've seen a lot worse online. It's an absolute bargain for the price I paid and is performing well so far anyway 👍

[@PeterOverthrow]

Would you mind giving an indication of price? The thought of 4 BG engineers for 7 days gives me anxiety! Must be over £25k

[@mrsilver7246]

All of a sudden everyone’s a heat pump specialist I love KZbin 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭

[@UpsideDownFork]

😂 thanks for your comment 👍

[@jaybrox1652]

@@mrsilver7246 as a matter of fact I Am. Long time before you even hear the term" Heat pump."

[@normanboyes4983]

Thank you for sharing your installation experience. Personally I would be a tad unhappy with that external pipework and electrical work.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for taking the time to comment. Anything specifically that you think should be improved on the external pipework and electrics?

[@normanboyes4983]

@@UpsideDownFork Honestly, it is far too late now. But without getting bogged down in detail - it could have been planned better. In principle one vertical trunk to contain the primaries and electrics into the loft and then a drop down into the ‘plant room’ would have been better than long horizontal pipework runs and the multiple electrical cables.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@normanboyes4983 ah, I see. That makes sense. If it was a side of the house that I ever saw or went down then maybe I would have considered some of these things. But I guess you are right that the installer could have advised better and some more joined up thinking between the plumbers and the electrician. From a technical point of view, I'm under the impression that the shortest route for the primaries is the most efficient and going up to the loft to come back down could lead to trapped air issues?

[@normanboyes4983]

@@UpsideDownFork Yes you are correct, shortest route is always the ‘best’ from a thermodynamic point of view. But ‘design’ is always a compromise and without knowing the building fabric - it may be that running straight up into the loft would have given a shorter overall run of external pipework. It is a good point though about considerations of air collection at the high point - so an ideal point for venting or AAVs.😉

[@Chatterisdotbiz]

Nice vblog, gives are really good picture of what to expect. I wonder how long it will be before British Gas drop the gas in the name 😊

[@JohnBrophy-z1c]

Why the buffer tank? Usually these are not needed.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Vaillant suggest it in their literature. BG insist it must be part of the install. Installers who would fit it without a buffer quoted much much more for the install so even though I'm sacrificing a very small amount of efficiency and higher running costs, I'll never make the difference back because of how much cheaper BG were than everyone else 👍

[@onlythetruthfull]

This installation reminds me of my grant-assisted installation of a new boiler and rads, 26 immediate leaks, lasted 3 yrs before needing replacement rusted Rads etc,proper cowboys, the new install is a lot better, however, I replaced rads on my own and run new pipework, strangely the electrician dumped the outside thermostat in the bin I retrieved it and insisted it being fitted

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment and glad to hear that your new installation is working for you.

[@HAelec1]

Second video of yours I’ve come across. First was actually the pricing breakdown video. Really good video and clearly you’re quite clues up about your heat loss calcs and the theory of these installs. But if I was you I would be contacting BG in regard to some of the installation methods. For example they have drilled 3 32-40mm holes in one of your floor joists mid-span to try and get the pipework through to your conservatory which could create a weak spot in that joist. Refer to cutting, drilling and notching joists in the building regs. Externally they have used white PVC conduit which isn’t UV stable so will discoloured and become brittle over time which could then cause the conduit to break and then expose the twin and earth cabling to UV which also isn’t UV stable and could cause insulation breakdown, or allow water ingress into the building if the bisa boxes breakdown. The soulder joints behind that trunking had very large snots which fortunately are covered by trunking as they are very unsightly. They didn’t lag the 15mm flow and returns fitted in your garage. Cabling and pipework is quite untidy within that cylinder cupboard which will make maintenance and servicing the equipment more difficult therefore costing you more money. You didn’t show the chipboard flooring being reinstalled as you obviously didn’t want to get in the installers way or seem nosey but you must ensure they’re glued and screwed and supported the cute to prevent squeaks in the future and that they have used deformed fasteners. Also I didn’t notice any soak away for the condense at the ASHP so they may have discharged this into a drain but a soak away is more ideal (unless you’re on clay then this would cause more issues) This comment isn’t to be an internet troll these are genuine concerns you should have as you’ve spent a lot of money and these company’s shouldn’t be getting away with installations like this as it devalues good tradespeople’s work. In an electrician by trade and the use of cheap lesser known brands of distribution equipment like doepke are a bad sign for the quality of the rest of the installation. However I’m yet to have seen the big reveal on the cost of the installation (not sure if you’ve released that vid yet) but I would assume it was one of the cheaper installations as that’s generally BGs MO as they make there more from quantity not quality. I’d be interested too see a follow up video in a years time with full SCOP and your first service on the system.

[@ChrisShucksmith]

Noticed all of these, and I loved the Wika box flapping around on the front of cylinder at a wonky angle to extend the 5 core to the 3-port valve. Why isn't it screwed to the wall next to the valve and brought around the back of the cupboard. Oh yes, because that would have required planning the install. Still the COP figures seem fine and its one less gas boiler.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thank you so much for taking the time to note these all down for me. Some of these were already on my snagging list, but you've added a couple more. So many experienced people on here that are just commenting that it's not a good installation but providing no details, which isn't very helpful for me getting the issues resolved or for others who may also be watching, learning and on their own heat pump journey. Really, thank you!

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thank you, this one is on the snagging list too!

[@HAelec1]

@@UpsideDownFork it’s very easy to Damn someone and just slag off there work but isn’t helpful. Especially for someone like yourself that doesn’t have a trade back ground

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@HAelec1 thanks. I'm an experienced and competent DIYer but I know enough to appreciate that it's still a world away from being an experienced tradesman. All your points make sense and are clear once pointed out. Take care 👍

[@MarkGaudie]

I think it’s brilliant that you’ve documented all this. I have the exact same heat pump. Older house than yours but more than happy with my Elite Heat Geek install with no buffer. 👍

[@UpsideDownFork]

Excellent 👍 Heat Geek Elite? Smart choice. I started pursuing Heat Geeks but none available in my area 😔 I've got a video coming about that issue next.

[@thomasl2974]

In Finland we have insulation in the adict floor as well in the inner walls for sound insulation. We also have all sorts of building 14:38 on electricity and waterpipes. This have been the case since the 70’s at least. In the southern parts you could have an air to wateer heatpump. Usually it is one box with all the elecronics and the boiler that goes inside and a outside unit not separate gadgets. It is much more common with geothermal heat or air to air heat pumps that works as an addition heating source.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@thomasl2974 thanks for commenting!

[@Chris-hy6jy]

Sorry if this has already been asked but was there a specific reason for including the buffer tank? As long as you have sufficient thermal mass in the system to provide heat during the defrost cycle, you shouldn't need one. Did they calculate it and deem it necessary?

[@UpsideDownFork]

They won't deviate from their default installation plan. As simple as that. I did the maths and have plenty of volume and even the 10mm copper microbore isn't a problem for the mass flow rate we need to those rooms. But their quote was many thousands of pounds cheaper than others so I will probably re-pipe the buffer as a volumiser on the return next year 👍

[@Chris-hy6jy]

@@UpsideDownFork I know Simon from Urban Plumbers completely removed a buffer recently in one of his videos and it increased efficiency so defo worth looking into.

[@loveofkemet]

@@UpsideDownFork Remarkable they can be thousands of pounds cheaper and just lift labour levels at will! Seeing this though I still think there is space for bespoke engineered systems where engineers can specify components as they see fit Ie no need for buffer.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@loveofkemet indeed 👍

[@_Dougaldog]

@@Chris-hy6jy I don't remember seeing any follow up to that regarding increase in efficiency, although that was the expectation. Lost one pump so that's a plus, will be interesting to see the final outcome when it's reported.

[@tonyfeasby1437]

Good video but the inner decorator with OCD in me wants to cry. God those pipes

[@UpsideDownFork]

😂

[@AL-lz1hb]

Mm, me too. Also, I need to dust that tank cupboard, but don't know where I'd start? And the giant vertical rads, I'm glad I saw these as they are massive! Nice to lean against maybe but eesh. Perhaps in real life the house is big enough to mean they don't dominate? They do say the camera always adds a few extra pounds don't they?

[@UpsideDownFork]

​@@AL-lz1hbThe space they are heating is 8M x 3M, has a 6M outside wall and 9M of floor to ceiling glazing so it needs the giant radiators to compensate for the heat loss. Fortunately, you don't notice the radiators because you walk into the room from the other direction and are drawn to the view outside 👍

[@AL-lz1hb]

@@UpsideDownFork hi there thanks, context helps. It sounds a nice big space. I had my survey done and was told we need a giant rad in my tiny bathroom!! The surveyor said, you can lose a couple of cupboards can't you? I suspect my mind as well because I tentatively said ok to his seeming madcap plan, which will leave me with a hall way with no hall table, an airing cupboard with no airing space and as I say, no cupboards in the bathroom. Added to that we need to loose a few electric sockets rearrange the furniture somehow? We have to accommodate a three metre rad sticking out 6 inches from the wall and then the outside unit can sit on the patio under my kitchen window.. I won't notice 65db apparently? Or mind being cooled as I soak up a bit of British sunshine. Although he did say my neighbour might have minded had we put it anywhere else? The whole system looks so big cumbersome and complicated and we have to hope it may be affordable to run (no projections) probably using special electric tarrifs and smart apps. My mind already boggles at such an idea. To the point where I wonder is my current situation of 12 degrees outside of my main living room so bad after all? Winter doesn't last forever, does it? I imagine having guests round after the install and saying, do come into my giant radiator. Put your coat on.. the floor? If you can't guess, this non techy slightly OCD bod is having major doubts. I don't have a large property. Im now wanting to believe the hype about radiant heaters and go that route instead, but don't know if I dare. Far simpler and less obtrusive.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@AL-lz1hb In my other videos I show how I avoided excessively large radiators as much as I could by improving the insulation. It sounds like you have some compromises to make for an air source heat pump to work efficiently. I have run through the running costs on my other videos and since installation (2 months ago) we have saved over £200 compared to our old gas boiler, which we are very pleased about. If you are referencing the Infrared panel heaters. I tried one last year and found it pretty useless. The heat wasn't comfortable at all. The targeted nature of it means that part of the room is too hot and another part is too cold. We've found the low temperature heat pump to be a total revelation in comfort terms. Consistent and even heat throughout the house and even the furniture etc is no longer cold. Even when we used to heat the living room to 21 degrees, the leather sofa was still cold to sit on. Now the leather sofa is as warm as everything else in the room and 19 degrees in the living room now feels warmer than 21 degrees used to. Hard to explain but our house guests do get it after a few minutes of being in the home.

[@johnhunter4181]

Very interesting, thanks for letting us see this - it reminded me of Robert De Niro as Harry Tuttle. We turned off our gas in June and got two minisplit a/c units installed for £3.5k which took one day and two holes in the wall. We have solar batteries so manage on 16.9p per kWh electric. December's bill (with practically zero sunshine) is going to be about £130 for our 5-bed detached house kept at around 20°C ...just sayin'

[@UpsideDownFork]

Good to hear 👍 It's a great option and certainly one I investigated quite thoroughly before making the leap to A2W as a better fit for our house and our lifestyle. A2A would have been the only option in our previous house though. We are currently on Octopus Tracker and today is a good example of it working in our favour as the price is down to 12.55p/kWh whilst SEG export is still at 15p/kWh. Our average CoP is above 4 so we're saving a huge amount of money every month already compared to gas 👍

[@johnhunter4181]

@@UpsideDownFork Cool, I guess the results speak for themselves but I'd like to get more people to look at Air to Air as a possible solution - I think the rate of conversions from gas to renewable would speed up a lot.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@johnhunter4181 totally agree 👍 I think they should be included in the grant, even if it's less of a subsidy, which would help draw more attention as well as make them an even more attractive financial option. Not sure why so much tribalism exists between A2W and A2A, it's almost like a family feud! 😁 I think the technology is brilliant and either implementation will save people money and critically will save us from ourselves by reducing everyone's carbon footprint. 👍

[@johnhunter4181]

@@UpsideDownFork Good point about raising awareness and I am a bit peeved about not getting the BUS grant. Especially when we are totally off gas while £7.5k of public money could go to someone running their ASHP on electricity generated by a gas or coal fired power station. I don't think it's conditional that you will only buy green electric.

[@1grizzlyrizzo]

Is there enough room around that unit outside, seems quite restrictive for air flow and efficiency?

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment. That's covered in one of my other videos here kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXOsf5-GqNBoe8k

[@nickhickson8738]

There's a Skill Builder featuring a gent with problems and his Heat Pump has more air around it than this one.

[@1grizzlyrizzo]

@@nickhickson8738 Yeah I saw that video and wondered if in this case the Valent having a slight side vent and the ejection being into an open space, then it might be better.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@nickhickson8738 I've seen that video. Luckily this heat pump is performing many times better than his!

[@nickhickson8738]

​ Well he's is not performing anymore because of the noise due to an internal fault either the fan bearing or compressor.

[@yourmamaok]

In the extension would it of been more efficient put the connections on the rads top and bottom

[@UpsideDownFork]

Maybe?

[@Lutonman2010]

i wouldnt fancy having to repressurise or change those expansion vessels behind that buffer tank. I think this video goes a long way to show why heat pumps arent gonna be the long term answer for a lot of people. Imagine having a gas combi and needing to find space for that cylinder cupboard. Plus the amount of man hours is staggering. Three or four gas engineers and a couple of electricians for a week!. Swapping the gas boiler for another gas boiler would have taken one engineer a day, plus a day to flush it. New builds with underfloor i reckon these would be brilliant. Im still not convinced they are the answer as a retro fit with all the additional remedial work just to get them to operate properly.

[@UpsideDownFork]

You're right that so many homes will struggle to accommodate heat pumps. Our previous house would have had no chance. Whilst there is the government grant and VAT relief, it makes a lot of sense for homes like ours to make the switch now because when it comes time for a new heat pump in 15, 20 or 25 years, then it is a quick and easy swap with the rest of the system in place. Perhaps A2A or other solutions like the Tepeo ZEB may become the alternative in those other situations you mention.

[@jlnplumbing]

The position of that monoblock unit does not look correct? Its too close the the right hand size and the window and door are within the protective zone?

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for taking the time to comment. Those issues are answered in my other video kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXOsf5-GqNBoe8ksi=_RH7xBE4uX2VkxES

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

@@UpsideDownFork the big question is, how well does it work? I had a very similar install done by BG but with a mixergy HW tank, why this one and not vaillant Im not sure. It seems a lot more complex and no doubt pricier but I do like the mixergy app to control the hw., and it seems very efficient. I had my system installed last march, after several delays caused by miscommunications between bg and the parts suppliers but we got there in the end and Im v happy with the outcome. Thanks for sharing the vids, very interesting.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@MikeGleesonazelectrics You're welcome. I do have other videos about how the performance is going, so feel free to nose around my channel for that content. Good to hear that your installation has been working well too.

[@royhorn9412]

I think you might be right on that one.

[@UpsideDownFork]

​@@royhorn9412kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXOsf5-GqNBoe8k

[@daz9052]

Thanks for the video, im biying a 2 bed cottage no gas mains, so thinking of getting a system like this, but still doing my research.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Glad I could help. Lots more videos on the channel that may be useful to you in your journey. We love our heat pump and don't regret any part of the change.

[@daz9052]

So looked into getting a heat pump, but looks like I'm not suitable ! So probably end up with a combi boiler

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@daz9052 what's the stumbling block in your case?

[@daz9052]

@UpsideDownFork The house is to small, it's a old cottage with very little space.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@daz9052 That is a shame.

[@aidandillon9520]

Good video, thanks for documenting in detail what happens. I'm very keen to make the switch too, but I'm going to wait till late Spring.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Better get the ball rolling then 👍 Demand is high. For me personally it was 11 months from first enquiry to installation! Many more videos are on the way highlighting the ups and downs.

[@_Dougaldog]

My lead time has been five months from survey to instal, assuming instal starts as planned in eight days 🤔 In saying that, it took months to get an isolator switch fitted by electricity provider. Which is required in most cases as only DNO or supplier (representing DNO) can pull primary fuse.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@_Dougaldog Interesting. I can't now remember when the isolator switch was fitted, but i'm fairly sure that British Gas added it during the installation?

[@ChrisJoned]

I’m glad you are happy with BG heat pump I went with heat geek they were brilliant all the drill holes all sealed up after the job know very toasty yearly bills are £700 so happy

[@robmog88]

I’ve already got a mixergy tank, would that need changing to whichever BG quote for or could it be retained do you think? Thanks

[@UpsideDownFork]

Mixergy tanks need the upgrade kit to work well with a heat pump. It consists of a plate heat exchanger that mixergy makes specifically for this purpose as I believe the existing coil doesn't have enough surface area. There's quite a few people running these heat pumps with mixergy cylinders in the Facebook group.

[@_Dougaldog]

It's a Mixergy that BG will be installing for me, albeit with a Daikin 6kW heat pump, Mixergy I believe will work with anything. The external heat exchanger does away with the need for a large internal coil, which reduces the usable volume of hot water in cylinder.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@_Dougaldog Yes, that's right. Swings and roundabouts. Mixergy tanks are not the most efficient for heat pumps, but if you don't regularly use the full volume of the tank then you'll probably end up saving money overall, even if your efficiency won't be so high when charging the cylinder.

[@_Dougaldog]

@@UpsideDownFork Primary reason for Mixergy was to accommodate future (hopefully) solar PV and perhaps battery, for which there are currently smaller grants of about £1250 for each (at least there is up North). I have about a 36m^2, 35% pitched South facing roof, not sure about loading as yet though. I'll get HP out of way first.

[@onlythetruthfull]

@@_Dougaldog Loading, my system was installed on a prefabricated post-war bungalow (aluminium) no questions on loading at all in fact I was surprised that I did not have to strengthen the roof as the timbers are very thin and all the bolts and nails are aluminium, while the bolts are good condition most nails have decayed into powder. The company was using the accredited logos on its paperwork and website. I got in touch with the accredited agency and was told they could not help as the company failed to pay them for membership for some years. I told them I only allowed the installation to go ahead as I had them as a safeguard . No joy.No guarantee.

[@richardplumb3713]

can you share a schematic in a future video perhaps? I'm curious why they fitted two expansion vessels and a buffer tank. If they've run 22mm to the rads so only the rads are 10/15mm shouldn't the radiator circuit be able to handle things like defrost?

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for taking the time to comment. My system is schematic 10, you can find it if you search for Vaillant Arotherm Schematic 10. I believe there are 2 expansion vessels, one for DHW and one for Radiator Circuit? Yes, by my calculations a buffer is not necessary on our system, we have more than enough volume to deal with defrost. Unfortunately both Vaillant and BG are insistent that a buffer should be used. In any case, it does add volume, helps with defrost, helps to reduce cycling and ensures that flow rates are always correct for the Heat pump. Yes, we will sacrifice a small amount of efficiency by having a buffer but the quote was so cheap, I couldn't say no. If we would have paid the extra £5k+ for a heat geek to fit the system without a buffer, we never would have recouped the investment from marginally greater efficiency and lower running costs.

[@edc1569]

Basically they don’t want to train their guys to actually do engineering and instead want a solution that will work under any circumstance. The grant should be awarded based on the cop achieved. But of course the grant is really a method of transferring tax payers wealth to BG shareholders. Good old Tory’s.

[@ChrisShucksmith]

@@UpsideDownFork you might be able to pay them a smaller sum now to remove the buffer and extra pump....

[@UpsideDownFork]

​@@ChrisShucksmith Thanks for your comment. My plan is to see how the winter goes and then potentially remove the pump and have the buffer as a volumiser on the return.

[@ChrisShucksmith]

@@UpsideDownFork that's probably a good idea and looks possible with the piping.

[@davowynn7150]

As an oftec registered heat pump installer, I have to say this is a Shocking installation mate, I hope you get it sorted as no doubt cost a fortune from BG, that heat pump location is not to the Mi’s

[@Mastergas-r7n]

Totally agree with above… Here here

[@lanners86]

@@Mastergas-r7nI’m a MCS registered engineer and a gas safe engineer, British Gas never fail to do a poor job 😂😂😂

[@karencarpenter8275]

I’m a bit confused? This is an arotherm plus? R290? Doesn’t it need 1m clearance from any buildings?

[@UpsideDownFork]

1M from openings like doors and windows etc.

[@David-bl1bt]

BG by default quote for Daikin heatpumps, did you specify the Vaillant? If so, what advantage does it have over a Daikin?

[@UpsideDownFork]

The Vaillant is quieter. We needed that to pass the noise assessment. It has some other slight technical advantages but splitting hairs really in the real world.

[@David-bl1bt]

@UpsideDownFork A super fast reply....much appreciated. The Vaillant is considerably more expensive though. BG quoted me £658 for a Daikin and £3169 for a Vaillant...hence tge reason for my question!

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@David-bl1bt yes, the Vaillant is the premium product but Daikin owners seem very happy with their units too 👍

[@uktechie8013]

Interesting as my potential Heat pump would be a very similar layout, the cupboard space with tank in looks similar to my cupboard, would it not have been easier to locate tanks where the gas boiler was? What size is the cupboard? Thanks

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your message. I replied in my latest video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIKYdJV5odCUZ80

[@andrewmallison3524]

Great video! I'm looking into getting an air source heat pump. Would be interested in seeing what the heat geeks think of your install.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Some of them have commented on this video and a couple contacted me directly. The main thing that some would change is to remove the buffer tank.

[@darrenjosephgregory]

Should there not be a soakaway under the heat pump?

[@UpsideDownFork]

I believe it is piped directly into the gutter downpipe.

[@normanstronach2426]

I hope that you informed the lads / lasses that you'd be snooping around after they'd left! I'd feel spied on.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Really? You wouldn't expect homeowners to inspect your work?

[@StevieMacdonald-w1c]

Pretty sure you need 500mm clearance right hand side of an arotherm plus ??

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@StevieMacdonald-w1c thank you. It has been moved now. Vaillant confirmed that the clearance isn't needed for performance reasons but for the convenience when servicing. 👍

[@asabriggs6426]

Wonder why for the new radiator work they went with copper and soldering rather than MLCP (PEX-Al-PEX) and press-fit. Would have been easier to do the pipe runs, IMO. Glad they ended up not using the speedfit.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for taking the time to comment. Not sure why they avoid MLCP or press-fit, but I don't mind either way as long as it wasn't speedfit.

[@alanr585]

A pathetic attempt at soldering but I don't like the willy wonker look of the press-fit.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@alanr585 yep, fair comment 👍

[@robmog88]

What time of year was your installation, was it recent? Thanks

[@UpsideDownFork]

Yes, not that long ago.

[@robmog88]

Was the time between planning approval and install down to BG being busy or what was the reason please?

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@robmog88 had a roadblock with the DNO over a silly issue and then I'd missed my window of opportunity. Vaillant were back ordered. They offered me a Daikin unit for a quicker installation date but I had planning permission specifically for the Vaillant unit so I waited.

[@shanebarwick1719]

Why didn't they run the pipe drops behind the vertex radiators. It would of looked 100% better.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Now that's something I agree with you on 👍

[@1973simonking]

They could have dropped on the other side of the wall behind the fridge.

[@UpsideDownFork]

​@@1973simonkingsounds like a sensible solution.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

@@UpsideDownFork yeah they did that with mine, looks ok. I have the same 2 huge vertical rads in my lounge, they barely get warm but seem to heat the room!

[@gullycheung5174]

Was there a bypass on the system Also is there a AAV on the buffer

[@UpsideDownFork]

Do you need a bypass if you have a buffer? In my case I have 2 large rads without TRVs and the rest are set to wide open anyway.

[@serraios1989]

14:10 Shocking soldering!!

[@UpsideDownFork]

👍

[@tristambarden510]

As a heating installer of 30 years i can tell you the soldering is shocking, leaving all the snots from the lead free solder is amateurish, dosent matter if its being covered up or not. The pipes outside should of been in ducting and the lagging inside is poorly cut and fitted. Very disappointing to see an installation left like this.

[@UpsideDownFork]

👍

[@weaverbike]

I am thinking of using British gas myself.

[@UpsideDownFork]

As with all big companies, it's a lottery as to who you get.

[@onlythetruthfull]

It's not always a good idea, if something goes wrong you are fighting a big wallet. They installed a gas room heater in a bedroom for a disabled person and then condemned the whole gas system, As all the pipe work apart from theirs was buried and new carpets and decoration had just been finished we opted to replace it with skeletal (exposed) pipework.Each old section cut connected to new. On checking for leaks there was a considerable leak traced to the gas pipe that the Gas engineer from BG had installed in the bedroom for the room heater. Compensation nil. Conclusion try locally recommended engineers they have more to lose so hopefully will do a better job. use Google to show you the job so you can check on them, Make sure additives go in the system etc not empty bottles or bottles filled with water etc.I have had all these tricks played on me I am much wiser now.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@onlythetruthfull Good advice.

[@jasonwhittle5008]

I don’t think you could open that window next to unit outside?👍

[@UpsideDownFork]

It's a sealed glazing unit that one. You can see more details here kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXOsf5-GqNBoe8k

[@Fre667Roger-Ring]

I’m sticking with my gas boiler

[@UpsideDownFork]

Each to their own 👍

[@Fre667Roger-Ring]

@UpsideDownFork The amount of kit needed to make the heat pump work is astonishing and more to cause problems ,the resources required to produce the kit can't be good for the environment. The wiring and pipe work looks like an industrial power plant.The average person wouldn't understand the controls ,let alone having to have larger pipe work and bigger sized radiators. So you mate our welcome to this crack pot nonsense along with your electric car.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@Fre667Roger-Ring Apart from the external pump, everything inside is the same as a conventional boiler. Standard size cylinder, pump, expansion vessels. That's all standard stuff. Now if you're comparing to a combi boiler...that's a different story. I don't have an EV. Can't afford one but I cycle pretty much everywhere anyway 👍

[@SuperDiagnostic]

Thanks.. I'm booked with Octopus for a next summer install which is a pain, unfortunately on checking, British Gas aren't covering my area (Cambridge) yet which is such a shame as I'd consider the Vaillant far superior to the Daikin. The standard of workmanship looks okay for a retrofit (IMHO) 👍

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comments. There seems.to be some snobbery towards the big companies but there are many, many happy customers from Octopus installed heat pumps. Hope yours goes well for you and good choice 👍

[@PaulJones-t7w]

'Fraid to say it looks like they haven't installed a condensate pipe and soakaway, which means you'll get a patch of green algae or even ice where the condensate drips. Or even a mini iceberg building up underneath the heat pump during longer cold spells. You'd be justified in getting them back for this. There are very clear instructions in the Vaillant installation manual about this. Also, buffers can reduce efficiency by up to 35% (University of Ulster research), and it seems a shame to throw away that efficiency when, judging by the size of the rads, the system designer has made a commendable effort to keep the flow temperature down. Could be the buffer was necessary for some reason, but that reason needs to be given to the customer because of the energy disadvantage.

[@UpsideDownFork]

The unit seems to be operating efficiently as I show in this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6q0nauqo96Sarcsi=Og3L3kvkuDaaWT3- Distortion caused by the buffer has been minimised by trying to match the DT on either side of it. Vaillant specify a buffer should be used. British Gas insist it must be in place. Both seem overly cautious and don't trust the installer network in the UK to do the necessary flow rate calculations to optimise the system without a buffer.

[@PaulJones-t7w]

​@@UpsideDownFork Your COPs are excellent. Looks like the buffer isn't having a big impact on the flow temp from the heat pump. Yes, the big installers like buffers as a fool proof measure so the heat pump doesn't get strangled if there isn't enough flow around the rads. I've been on Vaillant training courses and they do like you to put in a lot of extra kit in between the heat pump and the emitters, but I'm not sure a buffer is a requirement to get their longer warranty. But hey ho, it's understandable given that's how capitalism works - always the drive to maximise sales and production, whether it's necessary or not for the consumer. To their credit though, in the standard list of schematics they do include open loop systems if the installer has the confidence to use them.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@PaulJones-t7w thanks for your thoughtful comment 👍

[@glynstorer3269]

How would it work in minus 15 degrees

[@UpsideDownFork]

Minus 15?! I live on the south coast where it rarely drops below zero. Besides that, most of the Nordic countries use more heat pumps than gas boilers so as long as the system is designed correctly they can work down to very cold temperatures. As for my system, it is designed to run efficiently (391%) down to -2 degrees, but it can continue to heat my house to far below minus 2, just at the cost of some efficiency. A quick guesstimate is ~300% at minus 7 degrees. Anyway, proof is in the pudding. I'm measuring and will keep sharing my data on the channel.

[@Cheadlebiker]

Nice vid enjoy your warm home and cheap bills 👍

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks. I've posted other videos detailing the running costs. Very impressed so far.

[@geraintroberts4611]

Theyve fitted the pump face upside down. That is supposed to be taken off and put in the correct position.

[@adamdavis561]

Wicked video mate, appreciate you may not want to say but how much would something like this cost?

[@UpsideDownFork]

Hello there. I've got a full video showing the breakdown of costs. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4OniZeYl8h0fKc

[@kcomfortsystemshvac7060]

Nice info,,,,do you mind ,ask you how much cost this projects ? £ 20 k more ? 😊

[@UpsideDownFork]

It cost just a fraction of that. I'll be going through the costs in detail in my next video 👍

[@MrRawMonkey]

Let’s hope those expansion tanks don’t need to be worked on in the coming years.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Yes, very true. They should have just said no when I requested everything be squeezed in the cupboard. In hindsight, they could have put the buffer in the loft or in the garage where the old boiler was.

[@jackgodwin5911]

14:09 those soldered elbows are on show in the middle of a wall?! That’s diabolical.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Nope. Not on show.

[@heatpump8566]

How much did it cost please

[@UpsideDownFork]

Full cost breakdown is in my other video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4OniZeYl8h0fKcsi=mH-MLaguY-nkhjtl

[@aerenewables]

wow I did this with one engineer and a helper in 5 days. why do you have a buffer if they re-piped it ? the anti freeze valve is fitted wrong also. external lagging and installation is terrible and will get water ingress making it pointless. also heat pump has all the stuff on the right hand side which is butt up to your wall so that heat pump will have to be moved every time for a service or any work at all 😰 sooo bad

[@UpsideDownFork]

👍

[@1966babysnakes]

Out of interest, unless i missed something in one of your other videos, how much did British Gas finally charge you for what was obviously quite a difficult installation? Great video by the way.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for the comment. I hope everything is covered for you in this video here kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4OniZeYl8h0fKcsi=eC39afNn6xH9aPUN

[@saadrasheed101]

Assuming buffer is after the cylinder and is it a 3 port buffer vessel of around 40 to 50 litre capacity?

[@UpsideDownFork]

Here's the schematic of my system kzbin.info/www/bejne/pH_NnH6Nrr9gd80 Buffer is a 45L tank.

[@Ade85]

To me It looks horrible, especially the outside and kitchen area. I know some don't mind the pipes everywhere, but it would do my head in. At least you're happy, so all good.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment. The outside pipes are down the side of the house that is not seen or accessed at all. Some.people would prefer the pipes to be chased into the wall rad the vertical rads rather than surface mounted but for us we chose the cheaper, faster and less disruptive option.

[@Birko64]

Scary stuff. Would be only half as bad if it wasn't for the hot water cylinder. I have air to air HP heating plus sunamp heat store for hot water (heated using solar in summer, off peak elec in winter). Much easier, neater, cheaper (if you take away gov grant) and quicker to install and the house doesn't look like a major industrial complex. It was all installed in a day. Unfortunately the system I have doesn't get you a gov HP grant as the rules are quite inflexible.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Major industrial complex? Really?

[@pallsmortion4750]

Are you allowed to put a wet heating system into a conservatory that's attached to a house? I thought for that full planning permission is required.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment. This conservatory already had full planning permission over a decade ago.

[@danieladams7919]

Is it April fools already

[@UpsideDownFork]

It must be ​@@danieladams7919

[@Cheadlebiker]

They will have to come back in winter to balance the rads have they said that to you.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Why is that?

[@MarkGaudie]

You certainly had some issues to tackle on your install with routing pipework. I feel very fortunate that I didn’t have to change a single radiator.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Wow, you were very lucky. What is your design temperature? 11 of our 12 rads needed to be changed but 10 of those required no pipework modification so it was extremely easy, quick and cheap to do. The tricky rads were definitely the addition in the conservatory/extension part of the house where no pipework had been at all.

[@MarkGaudie]

@@UpsideDownForkthe design temp for mine is 45 degrees at -3 with no zoning and weather comp.

[@UpsideDownFork]

​@@MarkGaudievery lucky to have no rad changes at a good design temp 👍

[@OH2023-cj9if]

I actually want one as I still have my old cylinder running to store hot water. My heating and hot water uses a 15KW boiler and pump. My bill for a full tank of hot water each day and heating on 8 hours a day at 21c+ was £80 in January with BG. The boiler is 20yrs old and works fine. I was quoted £5500 to convert the current system to a combination boiler. If I can get a heat pump I would want to be paying far less than gas. So less than £80_month to run for similar hours would be OK. The house is well insulated. People with heat pumps will not tell me how much they paid, or what their monthly electric bill is. I just can't get an idea of whether or not it would a saving, or I would pay more for installation and be stuck with something that uses £100-200/month IN electric. I can't be doing with sales people as they will lie to get a sale, the same with people that were misled, they feel foolish and will not give true costs.

[@UpsideDownFork]

This video might help kzbin.info/www/bejne/fX6VfnaXjt6Ufqc In our case it has saved us loads but not everyone does 👍

[@willmorgan6867]

I wouldn’t be happy with the pipework and radiator siting, especially so close to that window in the conservatory/sun room type situation. Lots of missed deliveries and logistical issues - I’d expect more from BG, personally.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment. The logistical issues were frustrating! The vertical rads and pipework in the dining area? I'm afraid these were compromises that needed to be made. In my other videos I walk through why I made that choice. The rad next to the window is an internal window through to the living room 👍

[@Lutonman2010]

to be fair. having seen BG from the inside. id have expected a lot worse!

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@Lutonman2010 😂

[@gordonsneddon360]

I could not live with that installation pipes and pvc runs everywhere this is exactly why you need these things installed when building otherwise you end up with a mess like this

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment. I could have chased out the walls myself for them to lay the pipework in and then plastered over later but we chose the quick and cheap option. I haven't quite finished that project room yet but soon it will be completed and trunking will be painted to match the walls. Surprisingly, we don't even notice the plain white trunking at all. We spend our time looking out the windows to the garden, rather than looking back at the house.

[@gordonsneddon360]

@@UpsideDownFork hi, it’s not so much the inside but that mess on the outside,maybe it’s just me that is very persnickety,I showed it to my wife she couldn’t believe what these people had left,you see I am a joiner and have very high standards of finishing a job,that is what I was talking about when I said I could not live with this

[@UpsideDownFork]

​@@gordonsneddon360 Oh, you mean down the side of the house? Fortunately, no one goes down there and it will never be seen. We're fortunate to have better access to the opposite side of the house that we regularly use. The double white trunking is so that the low voltage data cables and the high voltage mains cables are separated, which i'm led to believe is best practise. I did consider some Inoac 100mm trunking to fit over the feed and return pipework but as it won't add to the efficiency of the system and the pipework will never be seen, so I decided against it. It would definitely be a different issue if any of this was on display. When we moved in, this house had a satellite dish on either side of the front of the house and another relic of the past, a TV antenna. We took both of those down to clean up the appearance of the property from the street. Personally, I can't standard those bits sticking out everywhere. I've also seen some very questionable gas boiler flues over the years, so I don't think this issue is exclusive to heat pumps! Appreciate your comments.

[@djhvideo]

@@UpsideDownFork I would prefer surface mounting and boxed rather than chased in. Less strain on the pipework and easier leak finding in the future.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@djhvideo Good point. I did even consider getting some brass wall clamps, a tin of brasso and polishing them up to make a feature of them. The wife didn't like that idea!

[@MrBradfordbiker]

I like the idea of heat pumps, but the minute I saw those (2) huge rads in the kitchen I instantly knew the juice was not worth the squeeze unfortunately

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment. We are effectively heating a conservatory in that space though. It has 8M of outside wall and then 10M of external glazing so would always need decent size radiators, even on a gas high temp system. For us, it is worth sacrificing that wall space. The dining area has never been so comfortable for us, even when it was below freezing outside.

[@MrBradfordbiker]

Yeah fair point, they are HUGE 😂. Thanks for such a well put together video btw!

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@MrBradfordbiker Yes, they are! My wife and kids like to hug them! 🤣 No probs, didn't really plan it well or get as much content as I had hoped, but just cobbled bits and bobs together to try and demystify the process for joe public.

[@alanr585]

Haha, at least they won't be hot so squeeze around@@MrBradfordbiker

[@Realworldnews247]

Looks like the British Gas guys spent a lot of time messing around, probably quicker to get an independent contractor for this type of job, might cost a little bit more but you’d get your job done in 2/3 days not 5 days and have maybe 2 guys there not 4 guys, also that soldering work is shocking, I’m curious how much they charged for this job as I am a heating engineer myself and I am looking to offer heat pumps too

[@UpsideDownFork]

The British Gas quote was half most of the others and a third of the most comparable quote.

[@Realworldnews247]

@ I’m amazed how they even make any money sending 5 engineers to do this job

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@Realworldnews247 They definitely lost money on this job.

[@simonhowle6576]

The workmanship looks great. However, it looks really bad at the front and the black insulation. Not sure why you would need three phase. It will be interesting with the new "recommendations" for solar installation it states batteries should not be installed in the loft. One of the main reasons is that weight in the loft when I the ceiling collapses. How much does that cylinder way? It will come into regs with solar I wonder if it will effect the plumbing side.

[@UpsideDownFork]

The black insulation? That is down the hidden side of the house so can't be seen. We don't have 3 phase. What gives you that impression? The new guidance around home batteries in lofts is garbage and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets scrapped. If the ceiling is so heavily compromised by fire that the plasterboard ceiling has given way and then the joists/trusses are failing enough for batteries to be a falling hazard, people inside would already be dead and fire crews do not enter properties at that stage. Ignoring the fact that a large amount of batteries in lofts are actually bolted to the gable walls instead of resting on the joists. I don't have a cylinder in the loft but the old water tank in the loft that we removed would have been 200kg+, approximately the same as 25kWh of home battery storage.

[@tamerizzet4054]

From a British Gas standards perspective, this installation seems decent, which is surprising given their track record for poor workmanship and high prices. However, if you're looking for top quality, I highly recommend Master Gas London. As a developer, I've utilized their services, as have many of my peers, particularly for air source heat pump installations. Their system designs surpass the competition. Take a look at this video - the cylinder cupboard appears entirely unserviceable. In the future, servicing this setup will be a challenge, with critical components tucked away at the back. Accessing them will be a nightmare, and eventual issues seem inevitable. It's likely you'll have to remove the buffer tank just to address these concerns, which is a flaw in system design. Keep in mind, for unparalleled air source heat pump installations, choose Master Gas London.

[@UpsideDownFork]

I've been around the heat pump community for a couple of years, conversing with other home owners and installers but you are the very first person to bring 'Master Gas' to my attention. Thanks for the recommendation.

[@jaybrox1652]

This house looks relatively new so it should have insulated cavity walls but still the radiators are bigger then wardrobe. Really this will be 50% heat pump and 50% electric heating...not much saving an a gas boiler.

[@UpsideDownFork]

You think a COP of 2? Well over the last year I'm over 4. So I'm saving a load over the old 70% efficient gas boiler. Last month has averaged close to a COP of 5 in this mild weather.

[@royhorn9412]

The heat pump is within a metre of the boundary!

[@UpsideDownFork]

Please see my more recent video about getting planning permission for this. Even though it now sits just a fraction over 1M from the boundary and would be allowed under permitted development.

[@OH2023-cj9if]

What has your electric bill been over the last 5 months since installing this? A figure each month will do. No one with a heat pump will tell me, they want to discuss their installation and theoretical savings. I just want to know what the electric bill was each month, the actual amount paid.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Hopefully this video answers your questions but if not just let me know what's missing 👍 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fX6VfnaXjt6Ufqc

[@1973simonking]

What absolute cowboys, I would be devastated if someone did that to my home. I could do the entire job single handed to a high standard in 6-7 days + time for paperwork.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Any details of bits you don't like?

[@1973simonking]

@@UpsideDownFork All of the pipe runs are poorly executed, and the soldering is really rough. I’d be concerned about volume and flow rate as a there’s nothing bigger on the heating circuit than 22mm, I would be expecting the first few section of the system to be in 28mm. I really do hope it all works properly and doesn’t cause too many problems.

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@1973simonking thanks for taking the time to comment. Soldering isn't great, that's true. I have done better in the past as a DIY guy. Volume and flow rates seem spot on from what I can tell on both the display and from manually calculating. I've been checking the temps with my IR thermometer on main feed and return as well as each of the rads to make sure they're balanced properly. Proof is in the pudding and so far the CoP seems good 👍

[@MartinE63]

14:09 that soldering is atrocious!

[@ACFPlumbingHeatingAndCooling]

Wow , that’s so wrong… the clearance around the pump doesn’t comply with the manufacturer instructions and also they use push fit pipe and fittings that is reducing the flow in the systems massively. Other problem, the solder joints near the pump , how they would flush that section of the pipe ? Hopefully they won’t flush the pump as well …

[@UpsideDownFork]

Where is the pushfit used? There are no soldered joints near the heat pump, only compression fittings.

[@ACFPlumbingHeatingAndCooling]

14:35 , you got them two 22 push fit pipes , 26:32 , solder fittings, and also the notches in the joists that is so wrong …

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@ACFPlumbingHeatingAndCooling Thanks for replying back! The plastic 22mm pipe was replaced with copper. You are correct about those solder joints around that corner. The joist notches have now been strapped to reinforce them.

[@andrewstafford-jones4291]

Holy crap - they have butchered almost 50% of the joist by the wall - that need replacing. It’s the top chord as well - whoever did this needs re-training 200 litre hw store will be to small as well - you will have to either ramp the temperature up or re-heat several times, either way your efficiency plummets. Hope you never need to clean the little window in the conservatory!

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for commenting. The joist and cylinder size have since been resolved. I'm not sure what you mean by the window in the conservatory. There is lots of space between that and the radiator. The camera angle may be deceiving.

[@gullycheung5174]

That soldered joint you showed was terrible.over soldered and massive snots

[@UpsideDownFork]

Yep, not good 👍

[@colinb6035]

Overdid the joist notching 😣😣

[@UpsideDownFork]

I'm surprised you are the first to mention that! Well done for paying close attention.

[@gordonsneddon360]

I work in the building industry and that notching of the joists is very poor not to mention the weakening of the joist them selves

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@gordonsneddon360 Would it be less of a concern as it is so close to the wall? Maybe a bigger issue in the middle of a room? Can the joists be strengthened with metal plates or something similar?

[@yngndrw.]

@@UpsideDownFork The "permitted area" for notching and holes within a joist are between 0.25x the span and 0.4x the span. It looks as if they were just expanding existing notches though?

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@yngndrw. Thank you for advising. I don't believe that the joist had any notching there previously.

[@louievigil6088]

Head scratchin 😅

[@UpsideDownFork]

😂

[@royhorn9412]

What strikes me is the total amount of crap gubbins you needed with these systems. I think for now I prefer a nice little boiler in a kitchen cupboard and a hot water tank. I am guessing this cost about £15,000 or about 5 gas boiler instals.

[@UpsideDownFork]

For this size property a combi would not suffice for the hot water demands so even with gas you would still have a cylinder and 1 or 2 expansion vessels along with the pump so it's only the buffer tank that is additional for the heat pump and that is not strictly necessary to the running. In terms of installation cost, it worked out thousands of pounds cheaper than the replacement gas boiler costs we were quoted for. Only made financially feasible due to zero rated VAT and £7500 grant from government. Thanks for your comment.

[@Mastergas-r7n]

Will never work in a month a Sundays, good job though

[@UpsideDownFork]

Spoken like a true gas man! First winter completed. Saved £600 on our energy bills compared to previous year. House warmer and more comfortable by a long way. Perhaps you should go back to school to learn about low temperature heating design?

[@Mastergas-r7n]

Maybe after fitting them for ten years. Retrofit that property first lol Then it might work

[@UDF-Bikes]

@@Mastergas-r7n What do you mean by work? It's not good enough that the house is warmer, more comfortable, we're saving money on our bills and it's been totally reliable? Is that not working?

[@topgazza]

How many people have space to fit the ridiculously huge radiators. Let alone right size pipes to move the water around ? What a con. Heat pumps are only suitable for a small number of houses. Otherwise reckon on £15-20k and like electric cars only for the well off

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for the comment. Apart from the vertical radiators which are only 60cm wide each and fitted in a room that previously had no rads, all the other radiators remain on the existing pipework, just switched from single to double panels. The 10mm microbore pipework remains and is not a problem unless your heat loss is very high. In our case and due to the current government grant, the heat pump worked out cheaper than an equivalent gas boiler 👍

[@topgazza]

@@UpsideDownFork Thank you. That explains it very clearly. I have a fully insulated house but no certificate. I understand you need to pay for one of those in order to get a grant. Also heat geeks estimated £13k with no grant so £7.5k with. To replace my boiler is £2700. So some way to go and I just don’t believe it’s cheaper than a boiler to replace. If BG guarantee the energy cost savings I’d be happy

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@topgazza Yes, an EPC is needed. Typically £50 or £60. Heat Geek assured scheme is about as expensive as it gets. Try and get a quick quote from Octopus and see what cost they come back with. I'll admit that we had to have our 27 year old boiler, cylinder, radiators, cold water storage tank etc all renewed. So when I compare to an equivalent gas system, i'm not just talking about a boiler. The cheapest quote I got for a full gas system including changing from gravity fed to unvented mains pressure system as was done with the heat pump was still over £6k. I had 3 heat pump quotes come in under that price and all were specified above the budget quote. Once you start looking at a quality gas system from Vaillant or Viessman that is more on par with the heat pump system, then the costs quickly shot up to £8 or 9K in my case. Not only the grant that helps with this but also being VAT free (radiators included as VAT free if done at same time) so there's an extra 20% saving. If I could have just got away with a £2k boiler straight replacement and the rest of my system was all good, then of course the maths would be very different! Or if I had a combi boiler with no space for a hot water cylinder, like I had in my last house, then once again, a heat pump would be a no go. I definitely agree that there are still lots of situations when a heat pump isn't viable for either cost or logistical reasons.

[@topgazza]

@@UpsideDownFork Thanks again. I like you clear explanations as it makes a nice change I have an 1989 house-3-4 bedrooms with a loft conversion. Well insulated, cavity and of course the loft conversion. New double glazing and an unvented system updated with new cylinder last year. Original boiler which still works but in spring I will be looking at fitting a condensing boiler. I will contact Octopus as you suggest regarding possible heat pump as an option . Thank you

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@topgazza Good luck and take care!

[@MartinE63]

That soldering is atrocious at 14:09 Ditto the insulation at 32:32

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment.

[@muckychimney]

That insulation outside on the bends is Diabolical, as for the pipe running across the conduit end boxes .... shockingly poor

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for contributing.

[@mechtechmechanical1571]

thats a lot of work

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for the comment. I've responded in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYebXn-Jm7N8h8k

[@user-zu6je6xd4h]

I’m a heat pump installer, this is a shockingly poor installation, very messy, poor insulation work/ incorrectly supported exterior pipework are a few of the many issues.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment.

[@_Dougaldog]

Perhaps you could point them out, a snagging list perhaps for others to be aware of ?

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@_Dougaldog That would be helpful but it appears that many are on youtube just to put others down unfortunately.

[@Uk-Writer]

Don’t forget to order your log burner to get any real heat after installing this and make sure you have loads of cash to pay the massive increase in electricity bills you will have

[@UpsideDownFork]

🤣 You obviously haven't seen my other videos where I break down the facts and figures from actual real life measuring and experience, rather than listening to the FUD propaganda by the daily fail. The house is warmer than ever and we have saved £200 on our heating bills in the first 2 months of winter. I will keep documenting my real world experience every month and eventually the general narrative around heat pumps will shift.

[@MT-zn6tc]

... plus there's evidence that people living in homes with log burners have elevated risks of breast and lung cancer.

[@rogersmee8132]

Are you happy with that installation? Looks a bit of a pigs ear to me.

[@UpsideDownFork]

We did have some snagging to take care of but ultimately it performs well and was cheap as chips.

[@royhorn9412]

I really do wonder if this is going to be next massive mis-selling scandal, so much money for so much crap that will work for 5 years max. I am tempted to say British Gas has wrecked this house.

[@UpsideDownFork]

You must be a gas boiler fitter by the sounds of things.

[@royhorn9412]

That is a terrible bit of soldering - way way too much solder and not cleaned up afterwards.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Yep, that's true. Thanks for your comment.

[@ronrobson4042]

My an aesthetic perspective that's an ugly installationId not be happy with all that surface mounted pipework at all.

[@UpsideDownFork]

We had the option to chase out the walls ourselves but we chose the cheaper and easier option. That room is undergoing other works which you can see in my other videos and the trunking will be painted to match the walls. It is already not noticeable for us, even in the plain white as it currently is.

[@hungarianzozo]

Agreed. The pipe work and soldering is awful. The location of the heat pump in front of roof water drain pipe is bizarre and amateurish. I would be very disappointed with the end result.

[@Stillbusy105]

All installed with no future access for future engineers, heat pump pushed up against wall that & bugger tank blocking all valves & tanks at the back! Expect some big repair bills when repairs are necessary! What a mess, who wants to live inside a plant room like that

[@UpsideDownFork]

Can I book you in to come and do the service then? 😂

[@adriantew]

Got a spare 10k lying around that you would feel silly about chucking in the dustbin? Get a heat pump instead. At least you will be able to account for every penny of your wasted money. And as a bonus you will be able to sing along with all the grunting and chirping in your garden, along with your very pissed off neighbours.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Another ignorant comment.

[@jimd7305]

Really! What a mess, never seen anything like it, someone tell me how British Gas could possibly be undertaking such a contract using so many resources and make it economically feasible, it's a bit of a joke. Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense. Finally, the insulation inside the house is poorly finished, the external insulation is insufficient with gaps and partially exposed valves, this needs fixing, also, so many external pipes and cables certainly does nothing for the appearance of an otherwise nice looking house.

[@UpsideDownFork]

They're not making a profit on these installations, that's pretty clear!

[@mrichards9978]

Pumps upside down

[@UpsideDownFork]

Does that matter?

[@CraigMcElhinney-j7f]

Absoloute disgrace of an install a really don't know where to start with it all for a start 5 vans on site which means at least 5 bodies on site for 6 days of the install which could easily be done in a day with 4 qualified men if all material is on site every part of the job is done arse from elbow a new heating system should always have all pipe work renewed and all old pipe work ripped out watching thay video is just nothing but laughable the way the installers have went about the full install from hanging rads on different days to sealing holes on different days to ripping out the old system days into the install honestly its insane the way this install has taken pace the guys that have carried out this install should be sacked on the spot yes there is some decent pipe work within in the install but am just amazed with the amount of Jobs that get started and get left to another day from running pipes from a rad up the wall and running pipes to those pipes and not tieing them in too clipping external pipe work to the wall with banding woofwoof come on and then seeing the plastic trunking installed and clipped to the wall without removing the sleeving that's nothing but stupid it really does amaze me to how British gas are still going if they are paying guys to install a ASHP system in 5 days+ any1 watching this please look in other directions for installers as this install is nothing but lazy

[@UpsideDownFork]

I wouldn't blame the men on the job. They were let down by a new division of BG and didn't have materials delivered when they needed them. One of them was a brand new apprentice learning on the job too. You make some fair comments but ultimately after some time and snagging we got there in the end and the system works really well.

[@glynstorer3269]

I wouldn’t have one

[@UpsideDownFork]

Why's that then?

[@neilattwood6227]

*none of these people are engineers**

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@neilattwood6227 fair comment

[@yp77738yp77739]

What an aesthetically unpleasant installation. Had BG do a traditional install 20 years ago and it too was as ugly.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for commenting.

[@alexriley6663]

sue them.

[@UpsideDownFork]

What for?

[@seanoliver4531]

I'm sorry but the space around the actual heat pump Is not enough and two radiators either side of each other is pointless The whole job looks so messy with wires and pipes everywhere inside and out.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Here's my follow up video about clearances. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXOsf5-GqNBoe8k The external pipes and cables are on the hidden side of the house, so unseen by anyone. Luckily we have good access on the opposite side of the house that we see. Not sure why 2 rads would be pointless as they meet the heat loss and that's the only usable wall space for them. As for the surface mounted pipework in the conservatory, we could have chased out the walls but decided on the quicker and cheaper option 👍

[@markfoyrose]

So much wrong with this installation. What are you doing BG!!!!!!!!!!!

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for commenting.

[@peterreid4567]

Diabolical. There so much wrong with this. The notch’s in the floor joists were a joke. And before people start I’ve been installin* heatpumps for over 12 years. The set up is really poor. Good luck everyone getting that 3 port head off. And over a week to install is crap. Far far too many fittings used ,, I’m seriously shocked that people are paying a small fortune for this type of work

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

[@tozzer9440]

Terrible external pipework, lagging is badly installed

[@UpsideDownFork]

Really? You want to join some of the heat pump groups in Facebook, then you'll really see what terrible lagging is!

[@tozzer9440]

Ive seen them, but you cant accept rubbish because youve seen worse. Did they seal the gaps around the pipe entry into the house?

[@tozzer9440]

Also the anti free valve on the top pipe is doing nothing as its not the lowest part of that pipework

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@tozzer9440 Thank you.

[@nickhickson8738]

​ And i wouldn't want exposed 1/4 turn valve handles either.

[@adamkenyon6146]

Very poor standard of installation. What you’d normally get on a social housing job. But that’s what you get from the likes of BG. Most of the pipework looks like it’s been done by a 1st year apprentice. Clearances around the heat pump are not correct. You should have clear space all round the unit to service and maintain the unit correctly. I can’t wait to see that right side panel removed for access to the internal components for service 😂 Outside pipework. Wow!! That’s absolutely shocking. Using all round banding to support the pipes. I’d love to see what installation standard that comes under. Pipes not sleeved or sealed through the cavity 😮 Clips (if that’s what you want to call them) every 2 meters. Pipework not supported behind the heat pump. Discharge from hot water cylinder has been installed on plastic clips outside 😂😂😂 That internal pipe trunking is also reminiscent of a rental house where the landlord literally c doesn’t care how it looks. This is worse than I was expecting when I heard BG were getting into heat pumps. I mean fair play for being positive about the whole experience. But my god you should have used a quality independent installer

[@UpsideDownFork]

Thanks for your comment. Some good points and I've addressed the clearance issue in another a video 👍

[@nickhickson8738]

Is there no lighting in this house? Maybe the power is off? So gloomy everywhere. Ghastly.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Haha, just poor camerawork I guess 😂

[@Displays.1234.]

Useless cold pumps....

[@UpsideDownFork]

Haha. Thanks for coming to inform yourself 👍 Basic engineering shows why they are great and have been used for decades around the world. I have other videos that share.more detail 😁

[@Rudi2305]

Eines Tages stehst du auf und deine Wärmepumpe ist geklaut 😅😅

[@UpsideDownFork]

Haha, good luck to them. They'd have to get through 2 gates and squeeze down the side of the house, carry it up and over 2 steps and it needs 3 strong people to carry it. Pretty much impossible to remove it without plenty of time and a team. There's much more valuable and easier targets in this world.

[@Rudi2305]

@@UpsideDownFork Ok 🤣🤣 Bei uns in Germany gibt es die ersten Diebstähle

[@UpsideDownFork]

@@Rudi2305 Yikes! Presumably they are easily accessible for thieves!