Heaven's Gate: Dissecting Cult Mentality w/ Randy Bell | Ep. 1901

Content Warning: suic*de
In this riveting podcast, Randy Bell, delves into the chilling story of Heaven's Gate, a cult that led 39 members to a mass suicide in 1997. Through captivating insights, Bell unravels the cult's manipulative tactics, explores the twisted beliefs of its leaders, and highlights the importance of critical thinking in recognizing and avoiding such dangerous groups. Brace yourself for a gripping exploration of one of the most infamous cults in modern history.
Show Notes: www.mormonstories.org/portfol...
Chapters
00:00:00 Introduction to Heaven’s Gate cult
00:02:45 Background of Randy Bell and Heaven’s Gate
00:05:15 Characteristics of a Cult
00:10:02 Heaven’s Gate Timeline/Overview
00:19:25 Picture of the Mansion
00:21:20 Hale-Bopp Comet
00:22:25 Photos of the 39 bodies, under purple shrouds, etc.
00:26:17 The house was eventually demolished
00:26:50 The BITE model
00:27:15 The Predator Systems Theory
00:40:00 Clip of Do proclaiming to be Jesus
00:42:28 Key Doctrines
00:44:35 New names, new identities
00:46:25 Clip of Wndody
00:49:50 Flyers to recruit people
00:50:31 Clip - Body is a vehicle
00:52:55 Sex, money, and power
00:54:39 Clip - Pray about it
00:57:00 Clip - How to know truth
01:00:13 Rules for the Cult
01:03:34 Clip - Ignorant Media
01:07:26 Clip - Cult Accusations
01:11:15 Clip - How we identify
01:14:35 Clip - Death of Ti and Do’s own Pending Death
01:17:22 Clip - Plan of Salvation
01:22:00 Clip - Trsody
01:26:42 Clip - Jesus also borrowed a body
01:33:24 Clip - From the Kingdom of God
01:38:43 Important Lessons
01:40:20 Predator Shift
01:43:35 Setting the Bait
01:44:40 Critical Thinking
01:48:35 This made world news Silent Death
01:53:40 Final Thoughts
01:56:08 Does Mormonism take your life?
___________________
At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.
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[@Zez88]

I took a break from Mormon Stories Podcast to listen more about Heavens Gate, and literally the same day Mormon Stories Podcast releases a video about the same thing. Must be the spirit!! 🤣

[@colorsflight6432]

same ❤

[@SilentThundersnow]

"Pay attention to your senses. Because they will tell you stuff . And when you override your senses, Because of somebody's position, or power, or authority, You're going in a bad direction." Randy Bell 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 So well said!

[@suvimollewis1645]

Thank you so very much sir.I love to learn from society Community the truth in this world every have life stories. ❤🙏I can watch your video over and over again. This is so real

[@aceshigh5157]

absolutely, when it comes to human behavior your intuition is always right. always. if it feels off, it is off. every time.

[@dionnaslocum5444]

I watch and love Mormon stories because I dated a grown ass, Mormon man! He did not try to indoctrinate me, but the elder Mormon, missionaries did. At one point I had five Mormons, staring at me, asking me if I felt the spirit.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

That's so Mormon. I had to laugh. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@DunnP10]

5 grown ass men staring at you asking if you are feeling the spirit is insane 😂😂

[@trevanon7450]

Did you? *** ducks ***

[@iffyangel3380]

​@@trevanon7450😂😂😂

[@iffyangel3380]

As long as you didn't feel the "storm", you'll be fine.

[@LifeAfterBelief]

Another fantastic episode. The LDS church started as a cult then evolved into a corporation. But there is still a lot of cult stuff in there! I’d give them a 7/10 on the cult-o-meter.

[@iamjustsaying1]

I'm completely taken by how many characteristics and tactics used by this cult remind me of Mormonism. It's eye-opening, to say the least.

[@user-kz8mq8co8i]

There is a strategy that is fairly much the same across cults. Greed of power, money, sex

[@orisonorchards4251]

How many of us Mormons prayed to die before we turned 8? I know Im not the only one. Turning 8 felt scary because we would be accountable. Those who die before 8 are GUARANTEED salvation. It's the same reasoning as these sui(ides so they could return home to heaven.

[@AndImsomelady-fq6cw]

That’s so sad…..

[@TassieAdams]

Hmmm. I never thought that. I did envy the idea of being baptized later in life so that more sins (whatever sins committed up to that point in life) would be washed away. I’m sorry to hear you felt that way. That’s scary!

[@Sarahwithanh444]

Wow, so I wasn’t the only one?

[@SR-bw3sc]

Creepy. So young. So sad ya'll had to go through THAT.

[@racoonbreath]

what dear you are in brainwashing cult. You do thinking for you not some cult leader clueless as everyone else.

[@jessicamontgomery8739]

Thank you for making the point that it takes a really long time to unwind indoctrination

[@andreaellerbee9288]

Mormon stories your lighting your visuals your sound it's really impressive..... not all channels are created equal and it's obvious your team really cares about your content. Well done as usual!

[@DestonieSalazar]

Thank you for this conversation. I could have listened to a six hour deep dive.

[@ginafrancis4950]

Thank you John and Randy. I’m old enough to remember Heavens Gate. Had no idea then how similarly aligned it was to Mormonism. Fascinating episode.

[@okballetcat45]

You guys are both heroes - you’re stopping the insanity cycle in your own lives and this has trickled out to your families and all of your supporters in educating us - thank y’all for being awesome examples of critical thinking and curiosity. Best regards!

[@randallbellphd4611]

Thanks so much. This comment made my day.

[@user-ce8tr1ex2m]

Heaven’s Gate is fascinating. Thanks for covering it!

[@dnlhrrng]

Every episode with Randy Bell is utterly fascinating. It's clear a lot of work and research went into this!

[@LenaOn_Me]

My favorite podcast about religion. Very smart but not so smart it goes over my head😂

[@DoctorWithoutDogma]

“I know this church is true” has never felt more repulsive.

[@marlenathompson229]

Yes!! This is a difficult sentence to hear.

[@aubrey6538]

It’s amazing how some of these clips really remind me of general conference how they can seem to talk a lot but not really say anything of substance. This was a great episode. I loved it. Thank you so much for all the hard work and effort that put in to bring this podcast to us.

[@heidiheidi]

Yay! So glad y’all are covering more culty topics!

[@racoonbreath]

because fun lol

[@Jayjays964]

Thank you both for helping me and so many others think critically about any institution and religion specifically. 10/10.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

It’s amazing that Mormons are coming out of their conditioning and becoming such inspiring thought leaders and sagacious intellectuals such as you guys. Thankyou for asking about the Solfeggio connection to that stuck out immediately to me as well.

[@lorrainedewaal3838]

Goes to show how even the smartest among us are duped and brainwashed into believing religious falsehoods looking for security, acceptance and love. Cults survive on peoples vulnerability. Thanks for the great podcast.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

Totally! And people's emotional vulnerabilities!

[@dm-dk5lm]

Let's remember that cults don't have to be religious either - apply these same questions to political groups as well!

[@justkiddin84]

And monetary organizations. Such as MLMs. And even some familial groups.

[@laura1000]

The United States is a cult.

[@user-ej6ox4lf4b]

@@justkiddin84REALLY GLAD YOU SAID THAT! I was just thinking about MLMs… 99% come out of Utah. The pressure tactics & a gazillion other Amway-like motives have ruined so many lives!

[@Zeett09]

Randy Bell is such a treasure.

[@CatskillsGrrl]

Chad and Lori were members in good standing right up until the kids were found. Many people knew what Chad was teaching. He wasn’t hiding it exactly. He was knocking on doors, literally. No, the Daybells weren’t an offshoot.

[@justkiddin84]

Thinking he could get a neighbor to mortgage their freaking home to bail out Lori!!! Wtf? That really hit me. Thank goodness those folks didn’t do that.

[@jasonkramsey]

Fascinating and awesome interview. And the plain, sensible, observation of 1970-2010's "antimormon lies" being now all out in Ensign articles and Gospel Topics essays is... chilling.

[@grateful2021]

I will never forget one of their broadcasts. I was babysitting and flipping through channels. Stumbled across the broadcast. It was very weird. Two weeks later they were dead.

[@grateful2021]

@crlody3045 well I’m not looking for attention. I was at my brothers home, the exact date, I don’t recall. The leader was on TV with an aluminum looking background behind him. I’m sorry if my dates aren’t accurate. I saw what I saw and don’t want or need attention. I had never heard of the group prior to what I saw.

[@beckyburnett8641]

Wow, I remember when this was in the news back in the day and the parallels to high demand religions/cults is uncanny.

[@marilyn1244]

In 1975 in Eugene Oregon a fellow leatherworker came to sell his tools because he was joining a group that was going to Colorado where they were going to be picked up by a spaceship. We still have the huge metal yardstick we bought from him. We never heard anything about him after that.

[@dadsarepeopletoo3785]

Bagwan Shree Razhnish (spelling)

[@retstak]

@@dadsarepeopletoo3785 No, they were an Indian mysticism cult that settled in Eastern Oregon in the early 1980s. They weren't a UFO cult.

[@tinman3586]

Was there an article about the spaceship? What was he allowed to bring on the spaceship?

[@tessdesigns897]

As an autist myself, I sense a neurodivergent trend in a lot of these cults’ members. Highly intelligent in some ways, but easily manipulated, social outcasts and often already existing in a dissociative “magical world view” frame of mind just naturally. I see a lot of neurodivergent persons meeting with the Mormon missionaries as well-often struggling with developmental delays and consequential isolation.

[@kateashby3066]

Wow great insight, thank you! I have ADHD but am still learning how to recognize high functioning AUT in people and it doesn’t come naturally yet. This helps.

[@gladysgreen2]

Great point - seems to apply to Daybell and his family too!

[@lorrainedewaal3838]

Brilliant statement

[@racoonbreath]

this whole ADHD could very well be a pharma push sell drugs kids and keep Dr busy. Therory I have was there side affects of drugs? Intentional?

[@Hallahanify]

As an autistic person do you think that makes you suspecible to this? I may be adhd and ASD and I was raised catholic and I knew it was horseshit very early on.

[@amygreen758]

Ooooh, please circulate a clip of the timestamp around 1:38 on social media! The desertion of family based on ritualistic fetishes is a great highlight from this. Thanks Randy!

[@c.harris9989]

"Where there is no counsel, the people fall; But in the multitude of counselors there is safety." Proverbs 11:14 Any time someone says not to seek other's opinions, that is a HUGE RED FLAG!!! I am still Mormon but have written my resignation letter. I am struggling please pray for me. I have spoken out against some ward behaviors, and am now going through the extreme psychological abuse of a formal shunning. Not sure what the shunning is supposed to accomplish, but if they are shunning me in hopes of me returning as a submissive woman, it has failed. Anyway can use prayers and any advice you can provide, bc I haven't sent the resignation letter yet. Im scared to leave I think. I really don't even understand what is happening right now. But I do know a couple folks in my ward are giving me Jodi Hildebrandt vibes. But am I misreading? There's serious red flags. Help please. thanks in advance

[@billwatt3775]

Do you have someone to share your thoughts and feelings with? It might help. Would you consider spending a little time with a traditional counselor or therapist (maybe just a couple appointments) just to have someone safe to talk to? Really hoping you find judgement-free support at this difficult time. There is a whole-wide world of people out here that would never think of "shunning" you. Stay Safe + Strong + True to Your Self.

[@ryangarrard3135]

You are not alone there, I left mormonism years ago and agree there are some very unhealthy aspects of leaving high demand religions and the mess that comes with it. Seeking professional help can help you process, I hope you find people to relate with and have the support you need. Podcasts like MS help me a lot, and meeting others helps gain strength and perspective too. Stay true to yourself!

[@psychick48]

Stay strong. Find another community...possibly a mainline or a more liberal church like the UNM church. I'm praying for you.

[@SilentThundersnow]

It took me a decade to put all the puzzle pieces together. You have your own answers. It can be hard to trust yourself. Leo Buscaglia said something I love, he said 'when we meet God, I think he'll say one thing, 'Why didn't you become YOU? ' Making your own roadmap, taking your own power back that they have held all this time, can be hard. You will probably have to find a new friend group. Mormons can't really be in close relationships without you either being a potential convert or heading back in. If you're becoming independent and choosing your own path instead of 'The Covenant Path' they will shun you. It's hard, it can be a grieving process. Try to pick friends that don't want to control you. Run from people who try to control you. Stand up for yourself, you matter. You were made to be you. There's nobody else like you. 🫶🏼

[@littlesecret1961]

I left the church years ago but have not had my records removed. I’ve gone back and forth about IF I need to officially resign because that record means nothing to me.

[@wallylama31]

Fascinating and tragic topic. Great stuff Mormon Stories!

[@tatermonkey74]

I remember this happening. He was born in my hometown to a pentecostal, preacher I do believe. All I know is the media came to our hometown like we knew something. The dude left in like the 50/‘s. No one even remembered I don’t think. It was crazy to watch for sure

[@saipuakivikaupias]

Fascinating episode. Thank you John and Mormon stories!

[@SamThorpe]

You make a very interesting and powerful point about high demand and controlling religions and relationships and the ‘long-con’… monopolising the position to be the one holding the ‘truth’ and the answer to either encouraging suicide, or over time using it to strip the life from someone…

[@Brewster907]

Great guest and video today!

[@sheliabryant3997]

Can't wait to hear Randy Bell on this topic. Thank you both.

[@rachel-leegeorge3374]

Anyone else agree that since Nelson has been called, he seems to have Applewhite's same glazed appearance and facial expression? I remember seeing Nelson's first conference talks as a newly called Prophet. Especially ones done during the Pandemic shut down. They brought me straight back to these historical video clips. He also seems to speak in the same sort of patronizing, slow way. It gave me an icky feeling. Not a feeling of peace at all.

[@elliek5350]

I think it's subjective, I didn't have any negative impressions from Nelson's way to convey his messages. But Bednar is another story for me ))

[@rachel-leegeorge3374]

@@elliek5350 His words always sound very calculated.

[@beetles1964]

Considering how old he is, he probably can't help talking slowly.

[@rachel-leegeorge3374]

​@@beetles1964who? The Prophet? He was a brain surgeon. And up until recently an avid skier. Super intelligent and active man.

[@beetles1964]

@@rachel-leegeorge3374 He's 99 years old. Intelligent people can struggle to talk quickly (or just not have any good reason to talk quickly when they're that old). He was active for a long time but considering he hasn't been able to stand in recent general conferences, I think he's not as active lately.

[@okballetcat45]

Agree John - it’s insidious and sneaky to sucks peoples’ lives dry over their lifetime and carrying it on through generations 😢

[@SR-bw3sc]

Question ALL things. It's incumbent upon every individual to question AND seek the truth in all things, especially question & investigate a group of any kind and any religion.

[@thinkpinkdays]

I was working as an LDS Church PBX at night, when the Heaven’s Gate deaths happened, the crazy people calls started to call in.. good times.

[@rwsd1025]

They were given a new name? Hmmm... where have I heard that before?

[@curtisholyoak8743]

You can hear that name through the veil

[@andreaellerbee9288]

There are just some people that we as humans need..... these 2 men are on that list..... they don't keep it all for themselves they give it away to anyone willing to listen and understand and help others along the way....

[@lauraestrada7279]

First off!! What a fascinating career!! This should be a fascinating watch. @Mormons Stories Podcast thank you always for such amazing content and message@

[@darcy2965]

Excellent episode

[@majorkade]

I'm reminded of American foreign policy and the wars we choose to support and how the public rallies behind them. Critical thinking is absent.

[@tawnyachristensen7310]

So fascinating! Love to hear more from Randy Bell. Great info and advise.

[@Warriorcats64]

59:42: Looks eerily similar to the inside of Mormon Temples.

[@16CENTS561]

Ooh this is interesting. Please do one on Gloriavale in New Zealand!

[@lsun5322]

Yes! There’s so much info out now after the labour trafficking cases!

[@racoonbreath]

yellow deli

[@Summerwailin]

One of the best episodes!! Thankyou

[@CatskillsGrrl]

Loved this episode. So much overlap. We all see it.

[@rwsd1025]

Further proof that testimony DOED NOT equal truth!!

[@suvimollewis1645]

This is a great excellent show our all young generation should wake-up and listen ❤🙏👌👏👍🌹🤔

[@IndySpirit]

Interesting, John. Thank you to you and Randy for the info!

[@sandimontoya8536]

Thank you guys for making this episode. What a great description for measuring any type of organization. Thank you for remembering the families.

[@ohjonash]

I really appreciated the acknowledgment and understanding Randy gave to Do over his mental illness. My mother’s cousin has schizophrenia and came to live with us before her diagnosis; she had convinced herself that her rosacea (which runs on that side of the family) was leprosy given to her as a curse by god because her son had died. All this to say, those delusions become reality, and it is incredibly sad that Do was taken away from potential treatment and his delusions were given a platform by someone who was supposed to help facilitate his treatment. Again, I just really appreciate the understanding and acknowledgment of the relation of mental illness and cult behavior.

[@user-lq4sw1cx5z]

thank-you both

[@jojojarvis1818]

This was so good. Thank you!!!

[@MPIndy]

As a Never-Mo, there are so many parallels. Here are two notable ones that stand out after years of knowing TBMs. First, the "I KNOW it's true" was triggering, even for me as a strong Never-Mo. Second, the love bombing. If a TBM befriends you, and you fail to respond to conversion attempts, you will be dumped. It might be a "nice" dumping, but it WILL happen. You are wasting their time. Frankly, although Heaven's Gate is extreme, I see modern Mormonism as barely different on all Randy's points. We must be gentle personally with our LDS contacts. But we cannot afford to tread lightly with Mormonism itself.

[@ericag5621]

I've never thought of the foundation of mormonism this way, but wouldn't Joseph Smith's vision experience fit in the NDE category somewhat? He stated by passing, but he described an evil darkness coming over him before seeing the light. IDK, just a thought.

[@kingsofle0n]

i’ve been very intrigued with this story for a while, appreciate you guys taking the time to talk about it and really verbalize the absurdness of it all - it made me think how easy it actually is to fall victim to these kinds of conmen. Thanks John and Randy❤️

[@lisedale6767]

Omg theres an ad for a cult while im watching this that is literally sounding just like these guys.

[@user-lq4sw1cx5z]

so very sad, and so very important to talk about

[@psilocybebae7106]

Love how you did this episode because I'm ten mins in and have seen several similarities of "cult characteristics" between heavens gate and Mormonism... 😂

[@dallasghirl]

I was on the internet at that time and had a friend send me a link to their website asking my opinion. Told him I thought that guy was nuts.

[@tracyclark2747]

Heavens Gate saved me! It was the driving force behind studying my way OUT of the Church that I was Born into.

[@user-nr5py8yo9k]

Thank you Dr. Bell and Dr. Dehlin! Amazing research and information.

[@xochitlkitty]

@ about 16 minutes- gooberish cult leaders- Chad Daybell

[@AndImsomelady-fq6cw]

I’m reminded of flat earthers, trying to use science to prove their point and when it doesn’t they become convinced the experiments they preformed are “broken”, like their telescope.

[@kateashby3066]

What are you saying exactly? That the earth ISNT flat? 🙃

[@AndImsomelady-fq6cw]

@@kateashby3066 I know you shouldn’t believe everything you see on the internet, but the earth is round. And yes, I’m a plant from team big globe.

[@AlanZabriskie-tr2uj]

The videos of the cult leader and the part about not talking to others is eerily reminiscent of Rusty Nelson 😱

[@KellyKelz7]

Loved this episode! Hope there are similar ones in the future! 🙂

[@WatticusGameTime]

Wow!!! This is super informative and enlightening to me. Thank you both for producing this and publishing it for the world 🌎 to see and to educate those who can find it. My name is Aaron. Recently, I had a terrible experience related heavily with religion. I am on the verge of a divorce that is beyond messy and my father-in-law and soon to be ex-wife are behind it all. My wife and I have 5 children that are ages 16, 13, 11, 8, and 5 My wife is being manipulated by her father and she cannot see it at all. She has Stockholm Syndrome for her father. He is a master manipulator to her and has convinced her to aggressively divorce me. He is a "card carrying" member of the LDS Church. The most painful thing my wife said to me recently when I asked her if she loved me: Our recent exchange: Me to her: Did you ever love me? Her to me: Of course I loved you. Me to her: What about now, do you love me today? Her to me: Aaron, let me remind you, I am only divorcing you for a time, but I am not "Temple Divorcing" you! I was floored. I have never felt so sad with a response from someone whom I care deeply about. This is what pains me so deeply about Mormon Doctrine on "Celestial Marriage" It allows people to abuse and manipulate others during their lifetime because they "know" what will happen in the Celestial Kingdom for those who "Follow the Prophet" Nelson's recent slogan "Think Celestial" is especially painful for me in light of her statement to me. My small family of 7 has suffered under this man, their grandfather and my ex wife's father. We are torn apart because of his pattern of control and unrighteous dominion. He is the family patriarch on her side and he has no accountability to anyone for his actions. It's sad. I post this here and now, because I don't have a good place to really "whistle blow" on this man. My wife bristles if I mention his name and his influence over her. She is adamant that she is independently operating without him. Sadly, she is not. I wish things were different for our young family of 7. We have been torn apart by dogma and by a mentally ill man who believes that I am not "worthy" of his precious daughter. Very sad and tragic. May God forgive me of my trespasses and also the trespasses of my wife's captor, her father and my ex father-in-law. I hope they will find peace at some point. This is for my children and my grand children... Please listen to the information provided in this presentation and do not trust me. Do your own investigations for everything you wonder about. Ask critical questions and be curious whenever you see red flags and patterns of manipulation. I love you all, Daddy Woods ❤❤❤❤❤ AWHTL

[@randallbellphd4611]

So sorry to hear about your experience. Hang in there!

[@amandaprather6573]

When I learn about these people (including Daybell) I just keep thinking, how are they different from Joseph Smith? The Mormons around me think these people are crazy and evil, but they follow Joe.

[@CharredFibers]

So creepy that he doesn't blink

[@debsuetwo]

Isn't that a sign of a psychopath?

[@kateashby3066]

The psych0pathic stare!

[@kateashby3066]

@@debsuetwoit doesn’t automatically mean ASPD but it def can. It’s socially inappropriate (in America) to stare at someone, so it makes us uncomfortable to do it and receive it. But since ASPD folks don’t have fear/anxiety, they don’t pick up on that! So they end up with this creepy stare. Considering he was a cult leader, I think it’s safe to say he was a psych0path at this point ;)

[@darcy2965]

He blinks like once a minute!!

[@Hallahanify]

Honestly i dont think ive heard john denounce the mormon church so harshly as he did in this episode at the end.

[@chelseamason7290]

This episode was so eye opening to me as ex Mormon. I made so many correlations. Thank you

[@katim2644]

Ti is the "solfeggio" name for the 7th of the scale, which has 8 notes, the 1 and the 8 being the same note, an octave apart. Musicians will reference the 7th as being the "leading note or tone" that "leads" the the 8th, which is DO "a dear, a female dear...." tea, a drink with jam and bread, which will BRING US BACK TO DO". DO RE MI FA SOL LA TI DO . I would offer that TI functioned as the Christ leading to the father god, DO. Any musicians out there with the same thought? Hum, given Applewhite's proclamation that HE is the Christ, and TI is God flips the names backwards. Do you think they were just so messed up they got the simple "clever: naming equating to the musical notes backwards? My observation is just too perfect for it to be a coincidence but backwards. If it were just him, it could have been AFTER TI's death, her being "lead" into DO, but her pre-death proclamation.....wait, that still works, the Bible placing MORE significance on THE CHRIST during his LIFE TIME than YHWH. Idk, what you guys think? The metaphor is just too perfect to not exist. I think there might be some clarity if we watch how DO calls her over time. He called her DoTi or DoDi before her death. Perhaps the metaphore was generated over time instead of created and established all at once.

[@randallbellphd4611]

Interesting observation. They changed their names around more than once. Guessing that they were just making this stuff up as they went along.

[@SamThorpe]

He is actually saying that you will find the truth ‘in the closet’… go back into the closest to find the truth… Freudian or what!

[@user-kz8mq8co8i]

Good video. Thanks for a wake up call for many who follow.

[@tacop11]

My mother-in-law’s patriarchal blessing said she would see the coming of Christ. She died in 2014 at 91. It was one of the last things she talked about before she passed.

[@chewyjello1]

The original owner of Jesus' body must have been PISSED when Jesus gave it back to him! 😂

[@snoranora]

GREAT episode! Thank you!!

[@InternationalMysteries360]

Thank you, that was very interesting and informative. I love the way Mr. Bell understands that these people ad high demand religions are using something beautiful and distorting it, in the same way an abuser distorts love. Their distortion does not mean love does not exist. Hitler and the Facists used nationalism. Doesn’t mean nations don’t exist. The point is not to fall for the crazy and use points such as ethics and the points Mr. Bell noted. Great program.

[@aceshigh5157]

i remember hearing about the deaths on tv. i think the news coverage solidified my interest in cults. i was 9. i've always found the framework and daily operations to be really fascinating.

[@lsun5322]

Hi John, just flagging you accidently misgendered Jessi Hildebrandt at 1:53:15. I’m sure it was unintentional but thought you’d want to know/correct it in the description. Fabulous and fascinating interview! Cheers, Lucy.

[@HelloNewMoon]

When John called them “gooberish” I felt that 😂 So true!

[@tomhalverson8783]

I am curious if Randy has done any research into Jack Parsons who was involved with occultist Aleister Crowley. Parsons was a big part of a cult in Pasadena, CA. He worked with rocket science with some guys at Caltech and the beginnings of JPL. There is a docudrama about him on Prime video called "Strange Angel".

[@sheryalderman1986]

This is the best on utube I Love Mormon stories as a never Mormon I have always wanted to know about what they believe. All I ever hear as a kid is they take care of their own. Lol your are so informative

[@Libbyratukalou-ti1nj]

as a mormon we basically are a normal church we just hav 3 more books than normal churches and sure we r a little more close with our members than other churches😁

[@MsFawndles]

I grew up in Encinitas/Rancho Sante Fe, I lived just a few miles from the mansion when this happened. It was really a terribly tragic story in a very affluent area with very little crime so this was a huge news story. A few weeks later I was taking a 2 day traffic school course at a local hotel conference room (in CA you can avoid points on your record for speeding once a year if you go to traffic school). On the 2nd day I arrived to see ambulances and police cars everywhere. A news van pulled in as I got out of my car. When I got to the conference room detectives were there, the instructor was there, and he introduced the director of the traffic school. The detectives explained several more Heavens Gate members had committed suicide in a hotel room there and were discovered just a couple hours earlier so they needed to clear out the hotel while it was under investigation. I was surprised they disclosed all this information to us and appreciated their openness. The school director said he got a traffic court Judge to wave our required hours and give us full credit for the course and he handed out the certificates. Then the detectives stepped out to work on logistics. They specifically said, "Everyone wait here while we figure out logistics". I was confused why we couldn't just walk out the way we came in. They offered *US* crisis intervention counselors, gave us their business cards with contact information. Then they explained we needed to go around the back side of the hotel and they didn't seem to like this idea. They walked us single file through the halls all the way around the building right past the open door to the room where their bodies lay. Then they let us go out the back door. Several of us were there early and parked in the front though, so we still had to walk around through the parking lot to the front and they insisted a uniform officer escort us. It was spooky at that point. When we got to the main front lot it was SWARMING with news media and they rushed ay us. The officers shooed them away and told them we were unrelated hotel guests leaving and made them leave us alone. One of the suicides at the hotel was successful and the other survived. We had just recently seen Cooke on 60 minutes, his wife was one of the original 39, he decided to join them. The story still wasn't done following me though, a year later I moved to San Diego and became good friends with a Deputy Coroner who was a lead investigator on the case, so I learned even more about what happened in detail.

[@marykuemmerle7796]

That is insane and super scary!!! I also lived in Encinitas at the time. I wonder if we know each other! If you don’t feel comfortable sharing your name that’s cool but I was Mary Griffin back then.

[@lindokuhlemabanga2399]

Loving the trailer

[@courtneyko1466]

All the elements of a cult or wanting to be in a cult is not rooted in being crazy it's rooted in wanting to be special. It's rooted in pride.

[@SheBecameVisible513]

So great! TBM refuse to see it…. Speaking personally

[@ainokea911]

I love watching Mormon Podcast, very educational. And you get to hear testimony from real people.

[@iphonejacki]

Excellent. Thanks!

[@ginagruber1732]

Probably dodged a bullet not buying the house. That's the setup for every scary house movie 😂

[@kevinmcdonald951]

Great stuff.

[@thoughtsbeforesleep]

Great episode! I think it is especially helpful to point out how intelligent the Heaven's Gate members were. I hear a lot of ex-Mormons criticize themselves for having fallen for such an obvious con in Mormonism. But smart people get convinced to join "cults" all the time and it is easy to do if you're not educated on how these organizations work. So don't be so hard on yourselves :)

[@moxanation73]

Catholicism is a very low demanding religion. I look forward to your video!

[@taylornauta]

Ehh….. the Spanish Inquisition would have disagreed, and so would those who suffered at their hands.

[@trevanon7450]

@@taylornauta Experiences in catholicism can be very different in different places on the world. Dutch ex-member here. I grew up in the 70s and 80s and for me it definitely wasn't a high demand religion. That said catholicism in the 50s here, or in eg Poland and maybe Ireland was or is more demanding.

[@coldwar45]

It depends on the sect and the family. It can be as liberal as a cafeteria Catholic or as high demand as the Pius X Society and Opus Dei

[@moxanation73]

@@coldwar45 Sure but Opus Dei and Pie X are cults and I think both were excluded from the Church. There are actually a few cults in or around the Catholic Church. But “normal” Catholicism is low demanding. I say that but I was in war with my mother because at 14, I didn’t want to go to church anymore and she wasn’t ok with it at all (I’m 50, it’s old). I also live in France which is very secular so religion isn’t a thing, even my parents don’t try anymore to convince anyone, they know it’s the end.

[@melanieahrens6739]

Opus Dei is a personal prelature within the Roman Catholic Church. You are correct about Pius X.

[@susansullivansullivan3695]

Love Randy!❤

[@elainechester4756]

Exactly describes the LDS.....