Heavy Metallurgy Presents: Episode

“So ends a decade, now what will the nineties hold” -SANCTUARY ‘Future Tense’
At the dawn of the 1990s there was an interesting balance among the heavy metal genres. Death Metal was planting its flag as the new face of extremity in metal, but thrash legends continued to drop well-received records that were snapped up by headbangers everywhere. Meanwhile, some traditional metal acts were still delivering the goods and Glam Metal troupes continued racking up sales with MTV acting as the dominant force on the musical landscape. Even Doom saw some timeless releases. And those thinking outside the typical Metal box were getting a facelift as well.
For this episode Darcy joins us to discuss the last year before the entire music community would seismically shift under the influence of The Black Album and grunge, but nevermind- that’s a story for another episode.
Darcy Six Strings Nine Lives
/ @darcysixstringsnineli...
Heavy Metallurgy Merch:
shop.bindruner...
HM Logo by Rick Contreras:
/ @thedreadfulminutes

[@LuchaLibertaria]

Gotta disagree with Marty on Grunge; Grunge didn't just crush Glam bands. Iron Maiden, Dio, Deep Purple, Malmsteen, Savatage, Overkill, The Black Crowes, Manowar, Styx...Pretty much all Traditional Rock/Metal bands careers tanked in US after 1992. Your average grunge kid who hated Poison didn't have any time for Dio and Saxon either. I also remember whenever Accept, Mercyful Fate or any other Classic Metal band released an album during that era, it would get slagged off by Metal Hammer, Kerrang etc. and they would say things like 'why do these guys play this dinosaur music in this age of Nirvana?' Headbangers Ball used to play commercial rock stuff in the 80s thats true; but those Bon Jovis were not replaced by Candlemass and Kreator; they were replaced by a style of Alternative Rock that promoted self-pitying victimhood culture & had no guitar solos & pushed teenagers towards Rap and Hip Hop which became the dominant music form. The state of post-1992 Mainstream Rock scene is self-explanatory. It didn't really influence underground metal, I agree with Marty & people continued to listen to underground metal. Its cool if sm enjoys Alternative bands, I like some of that stuff as well, and I think it can co-exist with other styles (Hard Rock, Glam, Metal etc) like it used to co-exist before 1993 (Soundgarden toured with Extreme and Skid Row) Having said that, Grunge scene was very anti-metal and they saw Metal as a politically incorrect white trash music.

[@tamer.elgamal]

I still haven't watch this yet, but i agree with you, actually one more thing worth mentioning is that Grunge only lasted for 4 years then Nu-Metal crushed it lol, then few years later Rock & Metal made its comeback and is reigning supreme ever since, and i can't say i am totally happy about it being huge now, because i miss when our beloved music was special and not so mainstream and a fashion trend, maybe it all started with Metallica getting bigger and bigger. But anyway, i actually don't hate Grunge that much now like i used to, still not a Nirvana fan, but once i discovered that Grunge started in the 80s and not with Nirvana's Nevermind, like most of us thought back then lol, and that Grunge musicians themselves are all into Rock & Metal like they say in documentaries about the Grunge genre, i stopped being an enemy of the genre lol. If you think about it, Alice in Chains & Soundgarden are actually good bands.

[@tamer.elgamal]

@@recordmass6298 I totally agree it was/is all a media thing. They marketed a "new genre' by bashing on another.

[@LuchaLibertaria]

@@tamer.elgamal Great points. I remember Dave Grohl 'coming out of the closet' as a metal fan when he did his Probot project. I'm a fan of Alice in Chains & I consider them as a 90s Hard Rock band that was unfairly lumped in with Grunge bands. Soundgarden is one of the best bands from the Alternative Metal scene.

[@tamer.elgamal]

@@LuchaLibertaria Yes something definitely special and unique about Alice in Chains. I learned to appreciate Soundgarden in like only the last 15 years or something and now i totally respect them.

[@recordmass6298]

@@tamer.elgamal Alice in Chains are especially amazing to me. Don´t care what "tag" people want to use to describe them. It doesn´t matter. Great music and sound!

[@9thcircle73]

I love this channel and sing its praises to any who will listen. Great stream gentlemen!

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

Thanks so much. You're too kind!

[@kevinbrown1893]

1. Judas Priest - Painkiller 2. Megadeth - Rust In Peace 3. Pantera - Cowboys From Hell 4. Danzig - II: Lucifuge 5. Queensryche - Empire 6. Riot - The Privelege of Power 7. Scorpions - Crazy World 8. King Diamond - The Eye 9. Slayer - Seasons In The Abyss 10. Alice In Chains - Facelift 11. Annihilator - Never, Neverland 12. Prong - Beg to Differ 13. Dio - Lock Up The Wolves 14. AC/DC - The Razors Edge 15. Black Sabbath - Tyr 16. Hellion - The Black Book 17. Blind Guardian - Tales from The Twilight World 18. Scatterbrain - Here Comes Trouble 19. Steve Vai - Passion and Warfare 20. Iron Maiden - No Prayer for The Dying

[@zer0ed779]

Great to have Darcy back!

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

Indeed! Darcy rules.

[@michalisveliziotis615]

Great discussion, so much variety and diversity in opinions and preferences - it is refreshing and empowering, well done lads! P.S. I love Coma of Souls and I consider Extreme Aggression and Coma two of the best thrash metal albums of all time!

[@Nope2022HugeTheWarningFan]

1:52:20 It seems I like many songs others think sucks. Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter was one of my favorites growing up. I still like it.

[@robbyloftis3940]

If I remember right, nirvana were fans of cold lake, not morbid tales. 😬😅

[@d-hell]

Hailing Ratt and mocking Defiance.... All the Defiance albums rule, with the Beyond Recognition as the pinnacle and a f&%#!ng beast! Made a big impression on me in 92.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

Defiance were decent. I didn't hate them, but they came off as a later tier band when thrash was starting to get tired. I own their firsts 2 and an album they did after they reformed. There's a lot of Pantera influence on it. Didn't like it at all. Ratt... you got me there. I liked them back then (one of the few from that style that clicked with me) and they offer a lot of nostalgia. Thanks for watching!

[@d-hell]

Absolutely!

[@michaelhudson2912]

Marty, maybe I misunderstood you, but the Joe Jackson cover on Persistence of Time is "Got the Time", not the opener "Time." Maybe I didn't get your wording right but if not, figured it's worth knowing that the seven-minute opener isn't a cover haha.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

I totally screwed that up. Thought about the mistake after I put the album down, but just let it go. Stupid whiteclaw brain was happening at that point in the shows progression. Haha. Thanks for watching and keeping me on my toes!

[@psychicvacuum555]

Fantastic show as always! Wish I could have made it to the live stream but these are always great to watch afterwards too! I’m young-ish (28 as I write this) and I totally agree with Marty on the topic of old stuff being just as relevant as new stuff. In general I really find myself gravitating towards 70s/80s/90s stuff and I also think it’s extremely important for the sake of background/context. None of the modern stuff would exist without the classics and even a lot of the more obscure bands/albums from the past have gone on to be an influence on contemporary bands (Timeghoul -> Blood Incantation for instance). In terms of personal taste I also prefer the more raw/organic production values of earlier metal albums over a lot of the stuff coming out these days which doesn’t even sound like it’s being created by humans!! Anyway, 1990 was an absolutely KILLER year for metal, as you guys made very clear! So many great picks from y’all but here are a few favourites of mine that you guys didn’t show off: Atrocity - Hallucinations Benediction - Subconscious Terror Black Sabbath - Tyr Blasphemy - Fallen Angel of Doom Cancer - To the Gory End Celtic Frost - Vanity / Nemesis Demolition Hammer - Tortured Existence Disharmonic Orchestra - Expositionsprophylaxe Exhorder - Slaughter In the Vatican Hellwitch - Syzygial Miscreancy Incubus - Beyond the Unknown Manilla Road - The Courts of Chaos Massacra - Final Holocaust Master - Master Merciless - The Awakening Morbid Saint - Spectrum of Death Obliveon - From This Day Forward The Obsessed - The Obsessed Paradise Lost - Lost Paradise Primus - Frizzle Fry Prophecy of Doom - Acknowledge the Confusion Master Psychotic Waltz - A Social Grace Razor - Shotgun Justice Realm - Suiciety Root - Zjevení Saint Vitus - V Sodom - Better Off Dead Thanatos - Emerging From the Netherworlds Tiamat - Sumerian Cry Cheers! 🤘🤘 P.S. Great band/album/song name (probably one in every episode you guys have done): Nebulous Mush (3:15:44)

[@shawntomorrow579]

My money was on you Marty to show "Scumdogs..." because I know you liked "Hell-O" as well. Someone mentioned Believer's "Sanity Obscure" in the chat but no one pulled it. It's a great album; their best and deserving of respect.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

I had it in my hand, but put it back thinking I had too many and when that album came out, I indeed liked it, just not as much as Extraction From Mortality. Regarding Gwar.... LOVED their early albums. Thanks for watching!

[@recordmass6298]

That's weird, was gonna answer a reply by @LuchaLibertaria, and the whole comment thread has disappeared. I'll try and jot it down again somehow: The "grunge soundscapes" in a nutshell, were the black sabbath tone fuel (ie an essence of the heavy metal riff) and raw distortion/noise + punk/hc and rocknroll and other stuff (also adaptable to the so called "sludge" before). As Marty was saying a lot of it was heavy music, organic, thick and many times with dark subject matter. Grunge as 'grime/dirt', but it doesn´t matter, it's just another label. The problem was that for many young ignorant fans it wasn´t....contributed by the media that focused on more visual/non musical aspects (the whole "this killed that...") a consequence of the media by manipulating for sales/hype and tags/labels (the true enemies of art/music) Nirvana for example, they were fans themselves, with their influences well rooted in hardcore punk just like other stuff (green river/mudhoney, celtic frost, melvins (GODS! etc) This is just like the "punk vs metal" thing back in the day (and til this day..steve harris ehem ehem). It's funny cause more than 50% of thrash metal, for example, owes it's existence to punk/hc punk. In the end, if you know your music context and it's history, you get past the tags and poser bullshit (By both media and some fans). P.S Just managed to save part of @Luchalibertarias message: "Black Flag's My War LP is prob the first one with that sound: Slowed-down Hardcore punk with early Sabbath-y riffs; Grunge bands added more post-punk and Alternative (...) to make their own sound" agree

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

I agree with all of this. Tags in metal are always problematic. Especially when bands find themselves borrowing from multiple sub-genres to create their sound. Tags are convenient for the media and even the fans to communicate with each other... they always breed discussion/debate. I think we're all guilty of leaning on them too often. No idea why his message disappeared! Thanks for watching!

[@adhominemsis-t.australisensis]

Left Hand Path, possibly the greatest death metal song.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

I know. What a fade out! is there anything better than that? Thanks for watching!

[@metalneanderthal]

Fun episode guys. Loved it. Ok Marty. Im going to pick on you bit here. The comment you made about the evolution of metal leaving Slayer in the dust had me say right out loud. “What the Hell?!?) that comment could be applied to every single metal band in existence. Every band that gets a semi big following has their day in the sun and that day comes and goes. You could say the same thing about Sabbath. They were pretty considered has beens for pretty much of their mid to 3rd half of their career. Motorhead? Lemmy never evolved. Yet nobody in my book represents the true essence of metal/rock more than him. Even Entombed. Talk about a one trick pony to most death metal fans. None of you like anything after their first record or at best think album 2 or 3 is just ok, but not both. Which ironically I stayed on with Entombed for a lot of their later career. The stuff isn’t half bad. My point is everything gives way to the next new young extreme band. Where it counts is if young and old people alike still go back to those classics. I get what you were saying. But we each decide when we want to get off the train ride with a band. But the metal world as a whole? Yeah no, they stayed on the ride with Slayer to the bitter end. Ticket and album sales proved that.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

I agree with you for most of this. Sabbath didnt evolve? C'mon. Tech Ecstacy? Mob Rules? Tyr? They indeed kept the overall framework intact, BUT never shied away from experimenting. It seemed to happen the most during a big band transition for them. Either a singer leaving, or just coming in. I'm not saying that Slayer was at fault throughout their career, because you're right.... the ticket sales showed the full story. BUT! How many people in that stadium night after night, were there just to hear NEW SONGS from Slayer? I guarantee the crowd endured them as bumps in the road on the way to hear Angel of Death, The Antichrist or Hell Awaits. Same with Motorhead. I like all those bands. The same could be said for a fair share of them. I wasn't trying to be a dick with the statement, rather stating the obvious (from my perspective that is). Thanks for watching Alex!

[@thomashubner697]

Holy cow. I think I never disagreed more on any of your shows. Spirutual healing is the only Death album I listen to regularly. For me the Harmony corruption full dynamic range mix sounds good. Love the Riot album with all the news clips and Maryanne and Runaway are in my top 10 Riot songs. Half of the Anthrax album is bad. I like Tattoed millionaire more than No prayer for the dying and Bruce live on that tour was much more fun than Maiden. (Riding with the angels, Son of a gun, Sin city!)At least we are on the same page when it comes to Rust in peace. Show was fun anyways and I hope Darcy will come back in the future.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

Darcy will return for sure. We may not have linked up on some of those classic albums, but that's ok! Everyone hears the same piece of music differently. Like I mentioned on the show in regards to both Napalm and Death.... at the time of their release, I was thrilled with them more or less. Time has changed my perspective on both albums. Harmony Corruption for me, was mostly brought down by the production/mix. I haven't heard the full dynamic version. Thanks for watching!

[@MrLando0]

Marty there’s a cool Gwar Doc on Shudder. They also just did NPR Tiny Desk Concert, I didn’t watch that yet, but has to be entertaining.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to check out that doc.

[@radmusicchat]

Anyone who doesn’t think Christ Illusion is a great Slayer record hasn’t spent any time on it. It’s dangerous just deciding you don’t like a record because you didn’t like the ones near it in a discography. Awesome show as per dudes!

[@Troy.Ritter]

I love all kinds of metal, but it seems like metalheads do this all the time. Decide they don’t like something before even actually listening to it.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

One thing is correct.... I don't own it. But I have heard it multiple times. Do I hate it? No. It's slayer. It's solid. I prefer their output much more from the debut, up through Divine Intervention.

[@radmusicchat]

@@HeavyMetallurgy yeah man, I get that. You cannot fuck with that initial run.

[@ziopsis]

I've listened to the Lethal EP Your Favorite God and the Poison Seed album. They're both pretty good and I don't hear much grunge on them really, just a little more straightforward and groovy.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

I need to check those out. Thanks for watching!

[@DokkenSabbath]

My Top 20: 1. Don Dokken - Up from the Ashes 2. Vicious Rumors - Vicious Rumors 3. Winger - In the Heart of the Young 4. Warrant - Cherry Pie 5. Black Sabbath - TYR 6. Judas Priest - Painkiller 7. FireHouse - FireHouse 8. Artillery - By Inheritance 9. Yngwie Malmsteen - Eclipse 10. Heavens Edge - Heavens Edge 11. Pretty Maids - Jump the Gun 12. Queensryche - Empire 13. Pantera - Cowboys from Hell 14. Slayer - Seasons in the Abyss 15. Trixter - Trixter 16. Holy Soldier - Holy Soldier 17. King Diamond - The Eye 18. Anthem - No Smoke Without Fire 19. Cancer - To the Gory End 20. Bruce Dickinson - Tattooed Millionaire Incredible year, in my opinion. Too many great albums. Metal/Hard Rock was still going strong.

[@metalneanderthal]

There’s a lot of awesomeness in your picks man. 👍

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

Nice list. Certainly a lot we all missed! Thanks for watching!

[@hattorihanzo2275]

The Glorious Dead record is good. Enjoyed the added CD so I can listen in my car which I will be doing shortly when I pause the video to pick-up energy drink and French toast sticks in a few minutes.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks so much for the support.

[@robertmorris8371]

Great show loved it and coincidently one of my picks ups this weekend was empire normally I would say the stream inspired me to dig out some of the albums shown but alas most of my cds are now packed away ready for our house move but it does mean I will get my own mancave/music room now!

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

Oh man.... good luck on the move. You're own cave? Totally worth it! Thanks for watching!

[@jameshuseby9931]

Marty real love when you do year in metal back in the 80s -2000s i didnt what to change still holding to my 70s rock now i can only listen metal trying to that old school metal in the collection

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

The hunt is real and ENDLESSLY fun. There were so many great bands that were popular AND a lot of more underground bands that were totally worth tracking down. Thanks for watching!

[@hattorihanzo2275]

The hunt is still alive for me. I spent a decade searching for Tangerine Dream's score for Sorcerer.on CD. I was determined to find in the wild. Found on vinyl long before the CD and then one day at a local shop it was there. Dare I say it was fate.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

It is those scores that keep the hunt fun. You never know what's going to be in those bins at the record shop. If you see it.... BUY IT! Thanks for watching!

[@hmetaljustin]

Alan thanks for the Lethal-Programmed pick. Excellent album!

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

It's an over looked and unassuming looking album for sure. If you like Queensryche that is. Thanks for watching!

[@Nick_Gherz]

Thank you, Alan on the Lethal suggestion. I've listened to it 3 times since this morning. 🤘

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

Awesome! It's a good album!

[@zer0ed779]

Collect them all!!!!

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

Catche em and collect em all!

[@rogerkjorvik]

Great guest and another excellent stream guys. And awesome turn up in the chat as well. 🤘🏻🤘🏻

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

It's always a good time! Thanks for hanging out with us so late in the evening, Roger! Cheers!

[@buttholewasabi]

Great episode from one of the best music discussion channels! thanks for the content all these years.

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

Thanks so much for that. More to come! Thanks for watching!

[@Leave_The_Hall_69]

Alan looks way cooler in that hat!! Big ups 🎉🎉🎉

[@HeavyMetallurgy]

He is a wearer of many hats!