Hebrew Roots is Not Messianic Judaism | Daniel Thomas Lancaster and Jeremiah Michael

[@beckymramos2262]

Jacob’s comment ‘sojourned through this’, is our journey also. Thankful for truth and distinction.

[@TreesAreCool206]

Same.

[@AlphaOmegaTruth7]

Have you considered Eastern Orthodox Christianity? It's the original church of the Apostles that the Roman Catholic Church split away from ,vans they kept all the ancient traditions passed on by the Apostles and first century Bishops. They have the interpretation of the founders of the Church. And they formed and put together the original Bible . The Septuigent.

[@TarahGiles-h2h]

In relation to Christmas what about the passage in Jeremiah where it talks about not affixing a tree with gold in your house?

[@firstfruitsofzion]

While at first glance one might be tempted to connect this passage with the Christmas tree, upon closer examination of the context, it becomes obvious that the passage is about cutting down a tree and then carving it into an idol. ffoz.org/messiah/articles/jeremiah-10-and-the-christmas-tree

[@ARenewedmind]

@@firstfruitsofzion So what is so different about using it as a Christmas tree or making it into an idol? It is still idolatry and rooted in paganism.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

@@ARenewedmind, intention matters. Having a tree in your home as you celebrate the birth of Jesus isn't the same as worshipping the tree.

[@jamesmunn8144]

I’m in the HRM. While it is not a formal “denomination” unfortunately for your audience they are left with hearing some of the fringe views of the HRM, which is too bad. It would be better to dialogue with the more mainstream or common HRM groups like 119 ministries or Torah Family. It’s my observation that most HRM members recognize God’s divorce from the House of Israel (10 tribes) and he would have done the same to the House of Judah (Jews) except for his promise made to David. Also, HRM recognizes that Hebrews, Israelites and Jews are not the same. All this has an impact on how one interprets scripture. I’ve heard some in a MJ congregation carelessly say, “the Jews” came out of Egypt, and even say that Abraham was a Jew 😢SMH. It would be proper to speak politely of the differences between MJ and HR rather than mockingly or looking to the fringes to make a point, it makes your organization look low class or dishonest. Personally I have enjoyed many of your teachings, sadly this is not one of them.😢

[@firstfruitsofzion]

It's a false premise that the ten tribes are not Jews. While "Jew" is derived from "Judah," it's abundantly clear from textual evidence that the term applied to members of all the tribes of Israel after the Babylonian exile: ffoz.org/messiah/articles/called-by-the-name-jew

[@junekitchen3747]

I'm a christian and just came across this. I have subscribed. Shalom

[@firstfruitsofzion]

Shalom! Be sure to check out other episodes on subjects that pique your interest: kzbin.info/aero/PL8-Pl6p2iaDEXtYiWCIrhC8iCHSZl2ZAy

[@DavidFardenJr]

You won't regret it and if you want to hear some of Rabbi Damian's teachings on Torah, prophets and Yeshua go to Shalom Macon and subscribe. Be blessed through these teachings. I know I have been blessed by HaShem. Less stress, anxiety and more secure in my faith and walk with Adonai.

[@luckylag360]

Is there a video on why your name is first fruits of Zion, if not can you make one?

[@majorpaynei86]

Specifically talking about cutting down a tree and shaping it into an idol.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

Yes, here's a podcast with Boaz Michael about the origins of FFOZ: ffoz.org/messiah/podcast/prophecy-torah-club-and-the-origins-of-first-fruits-of-zion

[@merrybachelorette]

Do you discard the Scottish / Irish heritage connecting to Scota and Tea Taphi?

[@kaykayrn1747]

In the Torah Club I attend we are studying Hayesod. I recommend it to all especially "newbie's" in the Messianic Judaism "ways". Yea, the Christmas/Easter thing is not a struggle for me, personally...got tired of all the commercialism & no one really worshipping Yeshua anyway (more of an after-thought). I find more meaning, hope, & worship in the Holy festivals, plus these feast days have come directly from our Lord (unlike the man-made holidays). Good podcast as always!🌸

[@TheBlindamerica]

Joseph was not recognized by his brothers because he “looked Egyptian.” I find the struggle between Christianity and Judaism , among many things, is the idea that Christianity holidays and worship can sometimes look Egyptian (paganistic). I would love to hear a podcast going into more detail about how you guys came to the conclusion that Christmas and Easter do not find their roots in paganism. Love your stuff; a little disagreement on this though. Agree it isn’t idolatry though. For me it is too materialistic and rabbits don’t lay eggs. 😂

[@kedb621]

I will say there’s a tone of “if you’re not keeping things to the ways the rabbis have instructed you’re not really a messianic Jew” there’s a lot of good things the rabbis have instructed and a lot of not so much. We have the disadvantage in the Messianic Jewish community that we didn’t have a voice in rabbinic debates/dialogues all those years, but to what level of authority do we give the rabbinic traditions? What lines are drawn as Messianic Jews.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

It's a complex question, but our Master gave us some guidance. The Pharisees maintained the traditionalist beliefs of the Jewish people, but some erred in hypocrisy and a few specific practices. Though the Master called out their mistakes and said to avoid their sins, he told his disciples to do as the Pharisees taught (Matthew 23:2-3). The practice of the Pharisees continued with the rabbis, so while not everything in traditional Judaism will align with the teachings of the apostles (e.g., Yeshua's messiahship, the role of Gentiles), we should assume broad overlap.

[@Charlie76729]

Is it also in Psalms somewhere to blow the shofar on new moon? And assuming yom Teruah too as this wasn’t mentioned.

[@Miosotis7]

I do not think that description is what Jewish roots is about. I have seen a lot of followers of the jewish roots and they show (action) a lot of love towards Christians and Jews. They just do not want to be categorized with any religion

[@firstfruitsofzion]

Separating from Judaism is the root problem.

[@salvandoalmasparacristo1390]

Agree!! As a Hebrew root follower I have been able to find peace. Loving Hashem and following the teachings of our Lord and Savior

[@graysonbr]

So is Commonwealth Theology a pretty good term in how you guys approach the Gentile believer then?

[@firstfruitsofzion]

No, that is a different understanding. We don't assert that Gentile followers of Messiah are descendants or representatives of the lost tribes. The commonwealth of Israel (Ephesians 2:12) is the kingdom of Israel plus the Gentile nations in allegiance to King Messiah. It's analogous to Great Britain in that England and Scotland are part of the same whole but the Scottish aren't English.

[@graysonbr]

@@firstfruitsofzion Thank you for that input. There was book called Commonwealth Theology that caught my attention here recent and I seen a couple of videos by the author. He did note that he wasn't one law.

[@nicoarnold2200]

As far as I understand the HRM view on the commonwealth of Israel is that all gentiles are grafted into the fig tree which they say is Israel and we become apart of the Commonwealth. In reality we are grafted into the root of the tree which is Jesus.

[@wilmaeulberg4323]

The commandment to keep the Shabbat is in the Ten Commandments. That shabbath commandment includes all Gods appointed times.

[@marymurphy1226]

I would've love to hear the mention of Hebrew pictograph.

[@lupelu2893]

Bravo FFOZ! May many hear this relevant discussion!

[@merrybachelorette]

I don’t think that people who are using what they believe is the name of God are doing it to be offensive or to appeal to Jewish people - like they are not trying to get praise or look good. They sincerely want to deepen their relationship with God and be close to Him and know Him personally and more deeply. You make it sound like people are doing it to look impressive or something. Additionally, the idea of a secret name of God is a whole Masonic teaching. Separate and apart from it being considered sacred in Judaism. The question I have is was the name of God actually named in the earliest writings and then removed? Isn’t that what the ineffable name doctrine is? That God’s name was too holy to write or speak so it was removed / replaced in later transcripts? People who have moved to the earliest transcripts are simply looking for the earliest truths not corrupted by ‘traditions’ of men. So understand that people looking for earliest truths are looking that way because they have largely come out of a faith / institution that was false or tangled in falsehoods and they are being called out. And the calling out has a series of stepping stones on a path that is a unique walk for them in following Yeshua- discarding old traditions and detangling falsehoods from truth. It is a walk, which removes trappings to get to the roots - I have not been part of either world by the way so I don’t understand some of what you are talking about but came from a Mormon background and studied into freemasonry which is what opened my eyes- and learning some things from messianic Jews and some from ‘Hebrew roots’ I suppose as you define them. In coming from a Mormon background learning about freemasonic connections to the various connections to knights Templar- I have been on a journey to detangle false ideology and focus on Bible study with a deeper and deeper dive into Hebrew.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

Excellent questions. For context, the Hebrew Name of God is not hidden in Judaism. Pick up any Jewish-published Bible or holy book in Hebrew, and you'll find the four-letter Name in the text. It was known and spoken in the days of the prophets. However, the Babylonian dispersion of the Jewish people led to widespread uncertainty on how to pronounce it. The issue was that written Hebrew didn't have vowels, so just looking at the four letters wouldn't reveal how to say it correctly. Jews left pronouncing the Name to the priesthood, and they began using circumlocutions or titles to refer to God rather than mispronouncing his Name. Christians and scholars have since used various vowelizations to try and say the Name, but these are complete guesses. The Hebrew Roots movement encourages calling God by these guessed pronunciations, but Messianic Judaism maintains respecting God by respecting his Name. We find affirmation throughout the New Testament that Yeshua and the apostles reference God as "God," "the Father," "heaven," etc. without pronouncing the Sacred Name aloud. May God bless you on your journey of detangling and discovery. We encourage you to go through our 10-lesson Bible study on the Jewish foundations of the Bible. If you want to understand the Bible in its original context, visit ffoz.org/hayesod

[@markus80s]

I am part of HRM. I found your presentation to be educational, even if I don't agree with everything in it. I do have an honest question to ask. In HRM, as well as Christians who observe the 7th day Sabbath, we believe that Sabbath observance began on the 7th day of Creation week. You guys and Judaism as a whole believe that Sabbath observance began when the Israelites were on their way to Mount Sinai, and that no one in the Book of Genesis days kept the Sabbath. Why is that?

[@firstfruitsofzion]

It depends upon your definition of "Sabbath observance." Jewish sources suggest many of the righteous before the generation of Mount Sinai honored the Sabbath. However, honoring the Sabbath and guarding it (i.e., observing the commandments to rest on it) are not the same. If you asking about the commandments to rest on the Sabbath, those were specifically given to "the people of Israel" (Exodus 31:13). Gentiles are not required to rest on the Sabbath, for those commandments were not named to Noah in Genesis 9 nor to Gentiles in Acts 15.

[@francoismienie8502]

What about the verse, for Moses is read in every city on the Sabbath, is that not an indication the gentiles should go and learn more about the Torah, so all would apply to gentiles not only the four commandments given

[@firstfruitsofzion]

@@francoismienie8502, the apostles imagining Gentiles learning in the synagogue isn't the same as them binding all of the Torah upon Gentiles. That was the losing argument in Acts 15.

[@TheTerriw31]

I agree that there is proper observance . My question is would you consider messianic judaism more similar to karaite than rabbinic ( orthodox). Putting Torah above the takanot traditions

[@firstfruitsofzion]

No, Messianic Judaism is not like Karaitism. The Karaites rejected longstanding Jewish tradition and interpretation like the Sadducees did, but the New Testament-the idea of a Messiah itself-falls apart outside a rabbinic worldview. Despite the polemics, the apostles and the Pharisees were on the same page on most things as Messianic Judaism is with Orthodox Judaism.

[@wilmaeulberg4323]

@@firstfruitsofzion What is the difference between modern day Judaism and the Judaism of the Apostles. Can you explain that.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

@@wilmaeulberg4323, that's a great question, though the answer is complex. Briefly, the Judaism of the apostles was more similar to that of the Pharisees than we usually think. In fact, one could be both a Pharisee and a disciple of the Master (Acts 15:5). These were the only two sects of Judaism to survive the Jewish Revolt. Rabbinic Judaism grew from the Pharisees who survived Rome's wrath, and it was largely monolithic until the last few centuries. While there are many sects today, traditional Judaism that upholds the Torah as sacrosanct and anticipates the Messiah and the kingdom is still very close to the theology of the apostles-save in the identity of Messiah.

[@merrybachelorette]

How do you guys view the Noahide Laws? Ben Shapiro said he believes in the Noahide laws.

[@ExposingTruthChannel]

Concerning the pronouncing of God's name, on Mt. Carmel, after God answered Elijah with fire, what did all the people exclaim? It wasn't "Hashem hu ha elohim", they used his name YHVH. And in the Psalms, is there one composed using "hashem"? "Sing to hashem", nay. You guys are the scholars, but seems to me that using "hashem" was added rather late in response to Roman persecution? And, guess I was miffed a little, when you kind of stereotyped rooters as insisting that pronoucing the name is a salvation issue. Just not the case, they are not a bunch of hill billies. Myself, when reading to my family, I will use "the LORD" or sometimes his name because I want them to remember that is what the scripture really says. And how do you say we don't know the pronouciation - the vowel marks are found two places in the Alepo scroll. Nehemia Gordon has done stellar work in this area. Don't put me in a box; guess I have one foot as a Jew and another in the other category. Ok, that's my two cents. Still appreciated your explanations and teaching very much.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

Thank you for your comment. The Tetragrammaton was pronounced in the days of the Tanakh, but it was not at the time of Yeshua because most had forgotten the correct pronunciation. If Yeshua and the apostles wanted believers then or now pronouncing the Name, they would contradicted the status quo of Judaism and preserved the pronunciation-but they didn't. The Gospels only reinforce the practice of using circumlocutions like "Father," "Heaven," and "Lord."

[@ExposingTruthChannel]

@@firstfruitsofzion Thanks for your explanation.

[@wilmaeulberg4323]

Have you heard any teachings by Nehemiah Gordon . He is a karate Jew raised Orthodox Jew. He claims that Gods name in ancient writings is Yehovah. I am not a sacred name person. I am a believer in Yeshua and practice the Judaism of the early disciples. I do not believe the modern Judaism based on Rambam is correct for them either. I have studied all Thomas Lancaster volumes. I have also studied the seven rules of Hillel and the 13 rules of Ismael on Bible interpretation. I truly appreciate worthy studies by D. Lancaster , Aaron Eby , Nehemiah Gordanwith others. Just sharing. You might disagree with Christians celebrating Gods appointed times but in the Kingdom everyone will be going up to Jerusalem to celebrate them. Honestly, is there any place on earth where Gods Word doesn't have effect?

[@CRRBennett]

Im more confused now than before. So are you saying Gentile believers stay away from everything and all things that are Jewish? Because that's what I hear. If a Gentile believer see that Sabbath rest was created in the garden and made for man we cant observe Sabbath? Of I as a Gentile believer feel convicted that Christmas and Easter are not honoring the Father But see how the Feasts do im not allowed to participate or acknowledge? Then what's the point in listening to Him? Every episode I decide to listen from you guys makes me feel like why bother. It's rather depressing to be honest.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

The confusion comes in when trying to make each commandment equally applicable to every individual. That isn't how the Torah works, nor is that the instruction of the apostles. For instance, the Sabbath is made for man, and it is good for anyone to rest on the Sabbath. However, God told Moses, "You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, 'Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations'" (Exodus 31:13). The Sabbath as a sign (and the duty to rest) are given to Israel, not individuals from the nations. Similarly, the apostles imagined Gentiles hearing Torah "every Sabbath in the synagogues" but didn't include any Sabbath obligations in their list of requirements for disciples from the nations (Acts 15:19-21). For more on distinction theology, read this article: ffoz.org/messiah/articles/there-is-no-distinction

[@francoismienie8502]

Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, “The LORD will surely separate me from his people”; and let not the eunuch say, “Behold, I am a dry tree.” (4) For thus says the LORD: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant, (5) I will give in my house and within my walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off. (6) “And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenant- (7) these I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.”

[@francoismienie8502]

You are so mislead in thinking theres are different laws for jew and gentiles, and there is no such thing as a gentile believer. Gentiles became part of israel via Yeshua, Grafted in,

[@kimmieb2u]

​Thank you ​@@francoismienie8502! There is one family of God, not two. I find that people who discourage non-jews from keeping the Sabbath and participating in God's holy appointed times are stressing a separation that the terms "grafted in" and "adopted" negate. If one is adopted or grafted into God's family, the separation is no longer there. When someone is adopted, they go by House rules. There aren't differing rules and privileges for natural and adopted children. They would not believe they were "family" if there were. I'm not saying that we who are not born Jew should claim a tribe, but saying we do not have to obey God's commands, especially the 10, is ridiculous. I have hungered my whole life for a closeness to God that I didn't find until I began keeping the Sabbath. Please don't discourage non-Jews in following Shabbat, food-laws and appointed times. There is no sin in doing so and there's much to recommend. Btw, before I came to Shabbat practice, I was cutting out Christmas and Easter. I knew the Lord wasn't pleased with them. All the presents are for everyone but Him. I'm much better off without them, although I do remember and honor the Resurrection. Because He arose, I have the hope of rising too.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

@@kimmieb2u, you yourself say that Gentiles shouldn't claim a tribe. You recognize that there is ongoing distinction between Jews and Gentiles even within the body of Messiah, which is right and good. Paul's one rule for all assemblies is that Jews remain Jews and Gentiles remain Gentiles (1 Corinthians 7). We do encourage Gentiles to participate in the Sabbath and the festivals, but it is abundantly clear that their relationship to them is not the same as Jewish obligation to them as mitzvot. Here's more on the Ten Commandments, which are incumbent on Gentiles: ffoz.org/messiah/articles/gentiles-and-the-top-ten

[@rebeccamarquevich5605]

I have been many non orthodox Jewish weddings. I have seen men & women dancing together. I May be wrong but I get the only judaism you refer to is orthodox. Many Judaisms have their own practices & what I observed for 30 plus years that Messianic Judaism has build their practices from both Orthodox & Conservative Judaism.

[@joeynelms]

When anyone asks my opinion on saying G-d’s name, I ask them if they call their earthly father by his name. Why wouldn’t you show your Heavenly Father the same respect?

[@DavidFardenJr]

Gotta watch out with that. In Revelation it says woe to those who say they are Jews but are not. I have Ashkenazi DNA but do I run around saying hey, I am Jewish? No, I don't. I do find myself being lead by the Ruach HaKodesh towards the Messianic Judaism. That's why I have some questions. Will be reaching out soon. Thanks FFOZ.

[@AlphaOmegaTruth7]

The best thing for anyone to do who feels Protestantism is lacking , Roman Catholicism has gone astray , instead of joining yet another division or newer split off, go back to the original true Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church. They have kept all the Ancient Traditions passed down from the Apostles and worship in such a way that your truly bowing down to Christ our Lord and our King. I pray everyone comes back home to the root of Christianity.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

The root of Christianity is Judaism. The original context of the New Testament is Second Temple Judaism. To understand Jesus and his apostles, we have to understand them as Jews: ffoz.org/hayesod

[@DavidFardenJr]

I love Matza. I'll eat matza on Shabbat when my stomach can't handle the challah. LOL.

[@peterhartgerink4096]

Sounds as though you believe the FFOZ understanding of Messianic Judaism is the only correct one. I appreciate FFOZ but also recognize that there are other Messianic Jewish voices. Shalom (I speak as a Gentile believer who is learning to walk in fellowship with Jewish believers)

[@stevepetersen7697]

Snobbery manifests itself in many ways and many movements,

[@BethanyAshelman]

My mom will not claim that she Jewish. She's scared of getting laughed at. My grandma was the same way.

[@anthonyguida8066]

A lot of misrepresentation of HRM and unfair strawman arguments in this podcast. I do not recommend this podcast in gaining a fair understanding of HRM. At least Dr Solberg is kind towards HRM brothers even though he respectfully disagrees with their views. You all sound like you have an axe to grind against people who are sincerely trying to follow God with all their hearts.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

No axe to grind, certainly not with people sincerely trying to follow God. Our criticism is squarely on bad theology, and our aim is to remove the confusion engendered by bad theology.

[@anthonyguida8066]

@@firstfruitsofzion Seemed to me like you guys had a pretty snarky, belittling attitude towards HRM beliefs throughout the entire podcast. You all might want to reflect on this temperament and adjust it for future podcasts about HRM.

[@Roofhack]

Overall the modern roots of saying the name is also very dubious, even without the context of offending Jews (which in itself is valid enough reason not to say it), saying it is a contemporary poisonous phenomena used to disrupt the Christian linguistic culture.

[@francoismienie8502]

As a HRM, you are taking only the bad what some people do and say, I can also go and say Judaism is wrong as Yeshua said about the Pharisees, do not do as they do, at another place how the Pharisees laid heavy burdens on the people through Judaism, and by the way Yeshua did say our righteousness should exceed that of the Pharisees.

[@firstfruitsofzion]

The stance on Judaism is the most clear distinction between Messianic Judaism and the Hebrew roots movement. Messianic Judaism sees itself as a sect of Judaism. HRM does not (or redefines “Judaism”).

[@wilmaeulberg4323]

Have you heard any teachings by Nehemiah Gordon . He is a karate Jew raised Orthodox Jew. He claims that Gods name in ancient writings is Yehovah. I am not a sacred name person. I am a believer in Yeshua and practice the Judaism of the early disciples. I do not believe the modern Judaism based on Rambam is correct for them either. I have studied all Thomas Lancaster volumes. I have also studied the seven rules of Hillel and the 13 rules of Ismael on Bible interpretation. I truly appreciate worthy studies by D. Lancaster , Aaron Eby , Nehemiah Gordanwith others. Just sharing.

[@DavidFardenJr]

Good stuff. Thanks Rabbi Damian and all you leaders at FFOZ. Learning and growing one day at a time. Baruch HaShem and shalom.

[@Lost_Light_]

But isn't Judah only 1 of 12 Tribes of Israel? Things that make ya go hmmmmmm.......

[@firstfruitsofzion]

That's an isolated point. The name of the southern kingdom (Judah) became a name for all Israel after the Babylonian exile, so members of all tribes came to be called "Jews." Paul the Benjamite calls himself a Jew multiple times. ffoz.org/messiah/articles/called-by-the-name-jew

[@graysonbr]

So is Commonwealth Theology a pretty good term in how you guys approach the Gentiles then?