Hedera Hashgraph Webinar: Our path to decentralization by Dr. Leemon Baird

[@1ingojingo]

I feel privileged every day to work with Leemon. A true visionary, and as or even more importantly, a really, genuinely, good chap.

[@ashthegreat1]

Never met him, but i got the same impression when i first saw him on Demetri Kofinas Hidden Forces Podcast in 2017. I instantly identified it was something special i wanted to be a part of.

[@johnnyhash9916]

Anyone saying that Hashgraph is "centralized" is misinforming. This video is incredibly easy to understand, the roadmap to full decentralization with Governance, Staking and more. Excellent video.

[@RamBabu-ip7wz]

Johnny are you still around? Has Hedera story changed(plz ignore the price action) in your eyes now or you hold same view?

[@billwu7367]

but they even not open source,how can you ensure this true?

[@T4T4]

How did I miss this for the past 2 years. Very exciting times ahead!

[@TylerKoz]

I always look forward to any talk by Leemon!

[@trycryptos1243]

#metoo

[@robertmichael2496]

I never thought I'd like it, NOT Forking! 😄🤙

[@ThrowEmBack]

Leemon is a genius and so articulate on his explanations of the tech without being too technical so anyone can grasp it.

[@SeeYouInMonaco]

Mr. Johnson very true my friend! I am not a tech guy at all and I had a pretty good handle of the information Leeman was explaining on my first view. I will watch twice to pick up all of the gems of wisdom.

[@all69anna]

Co-founders Leemon and Mance are both ex-US military, and that fact plus the controlled IP has kept me in observer mode for more than two years now. My concern is the capture of the DLT opportunity space by an invisible agenda controlling more than one third of the nodes - Byzantine generals 😉 I am increasingly reassured that the intention and fundamental structure of Hedera is actually designed to counter such potential influences.... maybe their military careers gave them clarity on the subject 🙂 I'm in deep admiration of how patiently and effectively Hedera has rolled out the Hashgraph concept, and I am looking forward to deeper engagement as my confidence in their sincerity grows. I'll be signing up on Monday.

[@MrMfiling]

one thing i love about this is that it will give smart people a head start, and smarter people also tend to be more compassionate in my experience

[@Supremax67]

Indeed, this project is way above the curve and I should know, I have looked around quite a bit. The question is pretty easy, is there a project that is aBFT? That answer alone eliminates pretty much all of the market. Even if it was aBFT, do they have an unforkable platform? To this date, no one ever showed me a competitor to Hashgraph, the question now is how long does it take for a random BITCOIN fanboy to wake up?

[@migengro]

Thank you so much for HH and the way it will help us shape a better future. Going strong with this technology for more than 2 years now. Very exciting times indeed.

[@sterlingcampbell2116]

Still have high hopes? Or has impatience set in yet?

[@USER-s9r9l]

Phenomenal presentation! I was so bummed out about not being able to attend the Hedera Hashgraph meet up in NY today but the community test net program announcement has put me in good spirits! I cant wait!

[@1ingojingo]

Can you make next week's? Leemon will be presenting. Tell your friends: www.meetup.com/Hashgraph-New-York-City-New-York/events/261235200/

[@GossipGuy]

Great presentation Leemon! Looking forward to Community Testing program Phase 2 and OA!

[@sliczilla5166]

Probably most important video for people who turn away from hashgraph without proper thought and miss recognising what they could potentially achieve with it because they have been told it is centralised. So good to listen to LB explain things. Even without any computer science background I have learnt so much from his talks

[@jaymcgrath-volau2975]

This is such a fantastic talk. This is the future! I can't believe I only found it recently.

[@SeeYouInMonaco]

Very well presented video and filled to the rim with clearly explained content! Thankyou much!

[@aigoof]

These talks will be legendary one day

[@scottdeihl3926]

Agreed! :-)

[@timcheou5649]

@@scottdeihl3926 this will be iconic in few years time

[@scottdeihl3926]

So so exciting and awesome 👏 Great video Leemon Baird! Thank you so much for all that you do! 💗

[@sapboxi]

Great presentation, up to the next test round!

[@shaikrasheed129]

Today I got 5 hbars for sign up & It's exactly an year before that Hashgraph's network started!

[@PatrickShaughness]

Great presentation. Looking forward to Phase 2!

[@trycryptos1243]

After the explosion of DLT and the ICO boom of 2017, HH is one of the very few projects that I am keenly watching. Now wish I could be a part of the project in some aspect. Could not get hands on the first testnet phase, hope I get this time.

[@hassandiallo5326]

Welcome to the future. Thanks Dr. Baird

[@NickGypps]

I'm excited about the possibilities this form of Distributed Ledger affords. The fast micro-payments and environmental efficiency built into the protocol will open up many incredible opportunities. I do wonder however if the speed of decentralisation might put some people off? Essentially Hedera is saying 'trust we'll do what we say we'll do - and you'll have to keep trusting for several years hence'. Meanwhile other fast moving DLT developers could sate the appetite for a decentralised system and you risk eating their dust. Perhaps however the fable of the tortoise and the hare will prove its efficiacy... I presume you'll be continually monitoring the fine balance between security and decentralisation?

[@Supremax67]

Actually, a decentralized system such as the gossip protocol use in Hashgraph performs faster than a centralized system. Instead of receiving thousands of pings per server, on a decentralized network, you can ping any nodes and thus reducing the calls to the network from thousands to hundreds per point of access. The difference here is that a centralized system cannot grow to accept more requests without compromising security. The only reason to go for a centralized system is for the ability to get full control of the data and lower latency, but they no longer have the edge on throughput or security. Hashgraph is the only aBFT on the market to this date. They use the basic minimum of information to send between nodes which is the gossip and 2 hashes, removing any more data on the transmission removes it's security feature and there is no faster form of communication than the gossip protocol. To add, this algo is patented, which means no other ledger can outperform them without putting security at risk and thus the same model cannot be used elsewhere. No enterprise is going to sacrifice speed over security. 510+ dApps confirmed already knows who's the clear winner here.

[@TonyCamero]

Thanks Leemon. #inspired

[@deathmetaldxb]

Gr8 stuff & extremely easy to understand. Explaining the reason from moving from Public Permissioned to "Public Permisionless" was easy to understand ( there are few challenges to it to though) . Hope series of similar webinars happen quite often. If one wants to arrange a meetup about Hedera in Dubai how should one go abouy doing it ?

[@paulmadsen]

Hello Death, there is a Hedera ambassador program that we can hook you up with

[@deathmetaldxb]

@@paulmadsen That would be awesome as I am in Dubai right now . The demand + initiative is huge right now How do i go about doing that now ?

[@alecotto7745]

@@deathmetaldxb Below is a link to our community website where we have further details about the program as well as an application to sign up. If you have any questions, please reach out to: [e-mail] hashgraph.org/discussion/113/interested-in-participating-in-the-hedera-hashgraph-ambassador-program-get-more-information-here#latest

[@undercovermoles]

Death Metal Hi we have at least 3 ambassadors in Dubai. I am one of them and we have arranged two meetups over the past year. With excellent speakers from HH. We will make sure to let you know about the next one.

[@deathmetaldxb]

@@undercovermoles Thanks, appreciate this

[@dkalls2]

Will there be a tutorial for non-techies that walks us through exactly what to do for earning hbar on the testnet? Or is this only for developers/people who already have knowledge of coding, etc.?

[@1ingojingo]

No worries Drew - on Monday when we open up for testing there will be detailed instructions on how to test. It will be very easy for non-techies to understand.

[@Creepy-Girl]

@@1ingojingo That is just Fantastic, so that we all can be a part of this!

[@dirtsdirtsdirts]

@@1ingojingo Hi Christian, is there any gauge to get a feel for 1) WHEN the average person may be able to stand-up a consensus node on the mainnet and also 2) WHAT the requirements might be for that? I recall Dr. B saying nodes could eventually just be people's cell phones, but my intent would be doing something substantially, intensely more than just that. Thanks

[@oakenshieldvgx8639]

I am so excited to see the moment when the world collectively goes, “Ah ha!”, and $HBAR market cap step changes up to $500 billion (or more)

[@scottdeihl3926]

💪🏽👏🥰🙌🌎

[@Primex_01]

20:47 And then 2 years later....

[@YEC999]

I really enjoyed listening to this presentation (what's not to often the case), very informative! 2 quick questions. A) Why 50bill coins? Price appreciation is key for attention and adoption and motivation. Isn't better to "scale with the digits" like BTC only 21mill but 8 digits after the comma do the trick? B) The Governance structure that ONLY companies decide is a bit onesided. The can have a lot of wants that the typical "crypto-friend" doesn't share: The might to want to know your name and adress confirmed in tx or, some form of identifier for their legal compliance etc?? The excuse for companies: "Well dear regulator, the system is what it is and we can not change it and we don't want to left outside the crypto revolution" might the much better approach. Or how do you want to ensure that, the companies then don't "have to want, what the regulator wants them to want". Privacy is key for many people in the sphere.

[@Supremax67]

B) You forget, the governance structure is key for 2 things: Mass adoptions and expertise. None of the governing bodies has any power past 6 years, and in many cases, attempting to be a bad actor would affect these companies for funds then the risk was worth. After all, a developer has little risk and tons of upside to manipulate a network, then take a company with billions in stocks, they would try to risk their reputations over a few millions at best? Not worth it. As for privacy, that option is still there. Nothing is preventing anyone to roll anonymous accounts and then encrypt messages. In fact, the latest announcement from Hedera just shows how to do that very same thing.

[@victortey]

What happens if the governance council decides not to allow permission-less nodes? Is that possible?

[@mariai9549]

All of them a once? Supposed to be 39 total but there's only like 15-20 in 2021

[@nandoblondemobydick5438]

@@mariai9549 last word will come from Dr. Leemon Baird and Mance Harmon, nothing can be done if it is not approve by them as far as i understand. Looks like there are very good intentions behind this project. I hope that grows fast, Bureaucracy it ´s about to end, with a project like this. That ´s what i guess. for the third phase it ´s planed you or anybody wants to, will be able to own your own private node

[@Supremax67]

They have a working model to be more decentralized over time, which means the end goal is anonymous nodes. So no, what you are suggesting will never happen. But like any project, they are stages. Be patient young Jedi.

[@TheXComputerXDr]

One question I have @ around 11:07 leemon says an attack would cause the entire market to lose interest in the market and it would go to zero, but what if the network is tied into your infrastructure? In a sharded network, would all the other shards in the network be devalued? Also, to be fair, also an attack is possible by hedera itself, since you do in fact own more than a third, and if you did wait until right before you handed out the last third, and decided to cause malicious intent, if the network is already tied into the infrastructure, how hard would it really be to just dump the network is a single instant, also you own the patent to the technology, so we cannot actually restart a new network if we wanted to, I would think you are not planning on this, but if your centralized ownership of more than a third at any moment is compromised any randomn possible scenario in which someone tries to exploit the centralization of power. until it has been finally distributed to the point that hedera ownes less than a third, I think there is a huge risk, and a lot of trust that has to happen for it to work, does the governing council have any say in the distribution of the currency? How many people actually control those remaining coins? These are things I would like to know, thanks.

[@paulmadsen]

Hi Thomas, 1) once we shard, then an attacker will try to compromize individual shards - the threshold for doing so becomes 2/3 of the stake in that shard. The logic Leemon cited remains the same, if an attacker spends alot of money in order to buy up hbars in order to attack a shard, then in damaging the shard they damage the value of the hbars they bought up. This is not specific to Hedera, its inherent in any PoS . Yes the Council members could definitely act to damage Hedera, they could vote to give themselves all the hbars, they could vote to issue corrupt node software, they could vote to raise fees to $100 per hbar transfer, and all manner of other evil or poor decisions. Just like any board could act to damage the company. What (we assume) prevents the Council from doing so is 1) self-interest - bad/evil decisions will harm the value of hbars they own and , likely far more important, their brand. and 2) democracy . The Council members are chosen from different regions and verticals - and so face different market forces, competitive tensions, and regulatory environments. Even if one (or 10) council members perversely wanted to damage Hedera, the other 29 would not. Key Council decisions (like moving treasury funds, updating software, changing prices), require either a super majority or unanimous approval. I do agree that a key milestone will be when treasury no longer has 1/3 of the 50B

[@TheXComputerXDr]

@@paulmadsen Ok so the council does have influence over the progression of the currency, including its distribution, I didnt know this was already the case, also thanks for the reply

[@paulmadsen]

@@TheXComputerXDr yes that is a key power/responsibility of the Council. You're welcome

[@luisquintana6481]

This is awesome

[@DRimple118]

It's 2/2022... Are we still on track?

[@TheSombrapunk]

Behold the future compadres

[@winnieoriana4398]

For over an hour into search on how to stake these coins. All content I find is that you can stake them. Nobody tells me HOW. And trust me, you guys are not the only one that make it so hard to find the HOW in stead of the WHAT. "You can proxy stake them and become a part of a node and get paid and bladibladibladibladiabla" Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, right. HOW? HOW can I stake them. What do I have to do for it? Where's the link? What do I have to download?

[@HederaHashgraph]

Hi Winnie, staking is not live yet. However, it is explained in detail (starting on page 35) in the white paper here: www.hedera.com/hh-whitepaper-v2.0-17Sep19.pdf

[@rishmithahahaha]

Can somebody explain widely distributed coins and how they are at stake ?

[@jamesagall]

Governing Council questions. Limited terms... so does that mean after the first IBM rep serves her term, then no other IBM representative can serve? Or just THAT PERSON?

[@paulmadsen]

The company is term limited, not individual representatives

[@mrPD009]

Just watched this. Had a thought - might be better to release coins based on network utilization.That would provide stability of value of the coins which is important to adoption of hbars I would think...

[@Supremax67]

Unfortunately, you didn't address network security. Proof of stake models to be secure requires that no single entity owns more than 1/3, so until HBAR are valuable enough to release to that amount, it will remain a slow release. Hedera has made 1 thing very clear, since the beginning. Security is their priority above all else. Thankfully they are also able to achieve fairness and speed without compromising security.

[@Kevin_Roche]

Leemon, what are your thoughts of a government potentially being run through the main net data points on a hashgraph? Cryptocurrency is the most obvious utility of the technology, but what if the system was also used to know what the people of a country want at any given time and the hashgraph is able to process and deliver efficiently what the people want? Hashgraph would know what people want because it may also have a form of social media on the network as well. Everything would be interconnected to it. To make myself clear, I'm not talking about having a central government, but rather a government is kept in check and under control based on the will of the people through the decentralization of hashgraph.

[@Supremax67]

Dr. Baird doesn't really answer or look at KZbin comments, however, you can subscribe to Hedera newsletter and ask them on their next announced Q&A.

[@Kevin_Roche]

@@Supremax67 Thanks

[@amarpandey7291]

Why I missed this 2 yr ago🙄😀

[@enricodellamico471]

first, the testing program is so imossible to set up. pairing wallet was terrible, do you think complexity still works?

[@HederaHashgraph]

Sorry to hear you are having issues. Please check the FAQ and find support information available at help.hedera.com

[@ronaldmorgan8158]

Concentrations of any currency occur when interest is factored in right?

[@paulmadsen]

hi Ronald, we definitely expect concentration of hbar ownership (and so stake) to occur. In a sense, our node payments are 'salary' and proxy payments are 'interest' as I can logically 'lend' my hbars to a node and earn rewards for that.(its not actually lending because I maintain control of those hbars at all times). We mitigate the risk of concentration by a) distributing coins in a phased & slow manner (so initial concentration is not trivial) and b) capping the stake that a single node can use. Together, this means that a) the 'attacker' will face the expense of buying up a large concentration of coins (as the market responds to the buying) and b) they will need to divide those coins over many separate nodes. As for any DLT, the critical threshold is 33% of influence for an attack - that wont be physically possible until ~5 years out - by that point we will have a good sense of whales and where they are.

[@TanNguyen-fg1ds]

👍👍👍

[@JasonHartgrave]

Help me understand how can Hedera ever be considered a decentralized solution when the underlying consensus technology is patented and any number of backdoors could be baked into the code? If there even could be what is considered a black box component to the network and it is not opensource how could it be a viable fully trusted system? The point of attack would be the holders of the patent and whatever government or constraints could possibly manipulate them. How is Hedera really different than a Facebook coin or JP Morgan coin?

[@paulmadsen]

hi Jason, the node software will be open review - for both 3rd party auditors and everybody else. No black box. To the other point about possible pressure & manipulation - a single large US business entity will decide how FaceCoin will evolve. 38 geo & sector distributed large business entities will do the same for Hedera.

[@Supremax67]

As Paul stated, the decision is not left to a small group of people; we are talking about different fields of experts and geo distributed so if any one government would attempt to apply a control to the network would be met with resistance. Having said that, they still need to abide by local regulations which is something most crypto today doesn't have in terms of flexibility. One of the main problem of a network that you have zero control (fully open source) means illegal activities can be performed, forks can be enforced and updates to adapt technical & legal changes becomes impossible over time. The only way to make sure that control maintains a sense of decentralization, is to have no control over the people who are part of the governance. What they have set in motion is the ability for the governance to maintain itself by experts and ever rotating. So 6 years down the road, you are looking at a possible 97% replaced governance (A member is only able to serve up to two 3 year terms). You may disagree with their approach, but the institutions and enterprises who bring in the real monetary assets considers open source crypto a huge financial risk (it is not sustainable to support a platform that may endlessly fork). This project will be open review so feel free to compile the code when it becomes available if skepticism is the name of your game.

[@plavius12]

Thanks @@paulmadsen but if the consensus technology is patented then, just an example, I can kidnap the creator, got access to the source code of the consensus technology, use a backdoor that he implemented or force him to do so, and then I can manipulate the network, or worse, harm and destroy it, this type of things will also need approval from the council? I know it's a weird example, sorry for that :-)

[@paulmadsen]

​@@plavius12 Leemon, even as the creator of hashgraph, no longer has the power to unilaterally force an upgrade to the software (malicious or otherwise). Only the Council can approve such an upgrade - this approval manifesting as Council member signatures on the transaction that distributes the new software to the network. Nodes will reject any software upgrade that doesnt have the requisite signatures. Notwithstanding that, can I ask you to postpone the kidnapping till tomorrow? I have a call with Leemon later this afternoon.

[@drmic3401]

​@@paulmadsen How will one verify that the disclosed code is in fact the same run by the actual nodes?

[@daveburten7535]

So what price will 1 HBAR be in 2030?

[@Lyachos]

about 1.2$

[@nielsbishere]

@@Lyachos x6

[@fredlacroix6865]

WHY 39 ?

[@simonm1528]

Where can you buy these coins or Tokens?

[@SYPuraVida]

Binance, Bittrex

[@FractalTrades]

HBAR will make millionaires..

[@inflashuns4154]

I guess the main takeaway is that you need 17 billion HBAR to compromise the network

[@Supremax67]

Which is no longer possible. If you bought that much HBAR, the price would go up so high that it would make HBAR un-buyable.

[@inflashuns4154]

@@Supremax67 Well it's never been possible because they have over a third in treasury. So your statement is in reverse. It's ONLY possible as more gets released from treasury. You can find all this information by searching for "HBAR treasury management report".... as for "un-buyable" allow me to introduce you to the FED's 7 trillion dollar balance sheet.

[@Supremax67]

@@inflashuns4154 -- Un-buyable is actually correct. The current price is around 20 to 30 cents, before you can even manage to buy 30% of what is currently in circulation, the price would end up around $2 to $3. There will be those that will never sell based on price but by date (e.g. retirement funds). HBAR is also spread amongst 20+ exchanges, so scooping them all up at once also not possible. You might need agree with this logic, but not everyone is like you and you have to account for that in your math.

[@inflashuns4154]

@@Supremax67 lol ok i'll do the math 17 billion coins at $100 each. That's 1.7 trillion dollars Now, that's too much for a single person to afford, but a group? A country? A regime? A botnet? This is all theoretically possible as they release more HBAR from the treasury, which is why I said the main takeaway is you'll need 17 billion coins (34%) to compromise the network based on Leemon Baird's own words. That's all you need to know for the future of this project.

[@Supremax67]

@@inflashuns4154 -- You are not accounting for scarcity. HBAR will reach $100 way before you can buy up 17 billions coins. Because of how trading works, the more of the supply you buy, the more scarce and the more FOMO gets triggered. For starters, some people don't sell regardless the price you are willing to pay for. Does that make sense? Nope, but people hoards and get greedy all the time, then they decide 20 years from now to cash out. And now with projects like Stader locking HBAR away for years where they are simply untouchable; no matter how much you have, you'll never buy out the full supply.

[@LemonChieff]

Since you take the liberty to remove my comments I’ll instead post them on Archive.org.

[@Callum29D]

Still have no idea how I can earn hbar... Can only find a bug squashing game... All this intellectual techno speak and I'm swatting bugs. Wtf

[@danang1503]

Please subtitle Indonesia

[@divinejusticefeelsgood]

This is the next thing after bitcoin

[@Supremax67]

To be fair, I was never inspired by Bitcoin. I kept wandering if something better would come around, until after 100 or so projects, I stumbled on this one.

[@petermutsinzi4796]

You now hve the answer dude.

[@williamleather500]

So far . . . .the price is a train - wreck . . .

[@Supremax67]

If you are letting the price dictate its long term value, I'm afraid you'll wake one morning with regrets.

[@Raccoonov]

Trustless

[@TheManEthan]

ffs please lead with "Premined" next time and save me the 30 minutes. Why people don't think this is a deal breaker is beyond me.

[@Supremax67]

Because your average crypto bro is uneducated and often fanboys, they are the only ones who doesn't see the potential. Technology constantly evolves and if you are still set on proof of work model, then you are contributing to the problem, not the solution. They are so many reasons not to use PoW, however, if you want to earn coins with this project, then stay tuned for when they provide the service to proxy staking.

[@6shiru]

Nice try ! But I prefer quality over speed Tx's. Blockchain is perfect !

[@Supremax67]

Blockchain doesn't offer either. There is no quality in how your typical blockchain operates. This is why we are 2020 and nothing in the blockchain space really made any real moves towards progress. Dr. Leemon Baird understood that a couple years ago and we are here today with a technology that actually addresses many of the blockchain shortcomings.

[@SYPuraVida]

Hedera has bank-grade security (ABFT). No blockchain tech accomplished this.

[@LemonChieff]

Calling anything about this “decentralized” is at best ignorant, more likely dishonest.

[@Supremax67]

Spamming ignorance is the definition of being ignorant. If you don't understand the tech, don't judge it. It would help your cause if you actually knew what decentralization meant.

[@LemonChieff]

@@Supremax67 I've tried to link to external sources but they get moderated. This isn't an academic environment.

[@Supremax67]

@@LemonChieff -- Lots of scammers on KZbin, so moderation is expected. You tried their Telegram channel?

[@brandireed6676]

The grumpy valley isely smell because novel grossly moan given a concerned russia. coherent, squeamish ethiopia

[@billwu7367]

hedera is scam