Hell - Examining United Methodist's Beliefs

[@timothykennedy2309]

Hell as “locked from the inside” is actually a quote from CS Lewis.

[@plainspokenpod]

Yeah I think he credits Lewis with it in other places, if not here. He definitely doesn’t pass it off as his own.

[@timothykennedy2309]

Do you think it’s possible to hold a position such as CS Lewis and Adam Hamilton (Hell is real but might be locked from the inside) and stay true to the overarching witness of scripture?

[@plainspokenpod]

@@timothykennedy2309 Honest answer is that I don't know. I can say that, if that was the only questionable thing Hamilton had ever said, I wouldn't have even considered making this video. It is only because of this being part of a composite that I thought it worthy of critique. I know that I'm uncomfortable with believers who believe that some people choose hell and choose to stay there. I'm also uncomfortable with those who don't believe in eternal conscious torment, but who instead think God just annihilates them. But am I willing to say they aren't brothers? At this point, I guess not. I'm just really concerned about them being able to comprehend the horror and the gravity of what is at stake, which tells me they won't be properly motivated to do what needs to be done.

[@starraustin9363]

As an ex Methodist ( as a child). It saddens me to see what is going on. A friend who attended the Methodist church with me who is evidently with a Methodist church that stayed. Sent me a face book post with the cross in the rainbow colors that said God hates hate. God loves the sinner for sure, but sin is still sin. Why is that so hard to understand. Hell is real! God gives us chance after chance. It is up to us to make the right choice. To walk the Narrow road. We can’t make up the rules as we go.

[@profitglen]

Hell is real? According to who? Theres zero proof, even from the Bible. The traditional concept has zero support in the Bible. No warnings all throughout the Old Testament, and lots of twisting of Bible passages, many times ON PURPOSE by the Church to shove fear. Screw that noise!

[@RJTURNERTX]

I had a patient who had a Near Death Experience during lifesaving surgery in which she descended into a "cold dark hot" place without hope and surrounded by mean beings who tormented her incessantly. She saw a faint light in the distance. She asked Jesus to save her repeatedly. The light grew brighter each time she pleaded. Eventually she was completely surrounded completely by warm brilliant white light. The surgeons resuscitated her, completed the surgery, and she recovered and eventually left the hospital. She was a changed woman. Her description of the cold, dark, hot place with beings tormenting her in the absence of light and hope was said sincerely.

[@jarrodneal1917]

If Lewis described hell as locked from within, he was alluding to Milton’s “Paradise Lost”. In that epic poem, the gates, once unlocked, could not be shut again: Satan’s jealousy, his desire to frustrate God’s plan in creation, led him to secure the key from Sin in order to “escape”, not realizing that in doing so, he exposed himself to invasion, conquest, and final judgment. This is only Milton's fictional account; sadly, it shows more insight, more depth of of understanding, than many modern theologians.

[@allenthompson2970]

Much of this comes from the concept that arose from the 60's of "unconditional love". There is no such thing. The phrase had never been spoken before that time. Jesus said that if you believe in me you will be saved. God said that you must obey my commands. Sounds like conditions to me.

[@plainspokenpod]

Yes. God sets the conditions. What is hard for folks to distinguish is that there is nothing outside of those conditions that can impact our covenant relationship with God. Nothing cancels or augments covenant. God's power and identity does not change. No shadow of turning. So while he is faithful, the doesn't mean he is unconditional. Rather, the opposite of that case is at the heart of understanding holiness...

[@daneliasosa6077]

The fire is never quenched until every single thing that is defiled is turned into ashes see revelations and sodom and Gomorrah the fire is quenched after the defilement is completed including the burning of the devil and his demons

[@daneliasosa6077]

Look at what happened to the 3 Hebrew boys in Daniels book 📖

[@jarrodneal1917]

1John 4:16 So we have known and believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and those who abide in love abide in God, and God abides in them…1John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For the love of God is this, that we obey his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome, 4 for whatever is born of God conquers the world. And this is the victory that conquers the world, our faith.

[@jdrake8738]

I think the holding cell to hell IS locked from the inside ... Until you die... Then you can no longer unlock the door... Nor can you choose to unlock it without God's grace in this life... without his forgiveness life is utterly futile

[@micheleh5269]

Our church voted by 70% to disaffiliate. Out of 20 of the churches in our district who were allowed to vote, only 1 voted to stay. I think it's a lot like the boycotts. People want to leave, but people in power are imposing. There so many requirements. Your church board has to recommend disaffiliation to begin with. You have to have 66% percent majority. Huge fee too. Then the conference can deny even if you jumped through all the hurdles.

[@LeDavidMorris]

Thanks, Even though I am retired, I have an interest. It is great that you have a calling to do this.

[@john1349]

It’s disturbing when ministers sound like college kids pontificating on religion who don’t know anything. So bad. Jesus spoke a lot about hell, it’s connected to the faith on different levels. Laodicea.

[@profitglen]

Jesus spoke nothing about Hell, as commonly thought and shouted everywhere. We have lots of twisting of Bible passages and misunderstandings.

[@alhampton1211]

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought that since our physical body is either buried, or cremated, we are talking about whether our Soul is either in Heaven or Hell. So, I do not understand the “ chewing on each other and not being satisfied” thoughts so it seems the Dante quote from Adam Hamilton would be irrelevant.

[@plainspokenpod]

A primary tenet of Christian faith is the bodily resurrection. While many believe in a temporary existence beginning immediately after one dies that is only in spirit, the teaching of the Resurrection on the Day of the Lord is that on the day of judgment, we will be raised imperishable with bodies that will either be subject to eternal joy and blessedness or torment and destruction.

[@RGabeDavis]

Listening to Compass podcast Judge God and from a self righteous position saying basically if God is as good as I he won’t send anyone to a flaming Hell. Wow we should just go to him for truth from now on.

[@eileenthrift8259]

Arrogant man who has been created by God, actually believing he knows better than his Creator. Would not want to be him on Judgment Day!

[@nancycrayton2738]

Thank you. This is so helpful. All I can add is Amen!

[@daneliasosa6077]

Don’t be proud Wesley knew the truth but not everything. He was persecuted for his faith and his knowledge of scripture

[@janetpeebles1754]

CHOICE is taught throughout Biblical texts. Separation is taught. Consequences is atopic clearly taught in the texts of Sodom and Gomorrah of the complete annihilation via fire and brimstone. The devastation happened after the cities had had 2 angels in their midst. Refusing God's way can result in eternal separation. God Doesn't send people to hell. WE send ourselves, actually... we choose hell rather than following, worshipping God. The deviation of repentance as In the Prodigal Son, is being glossed over in this narrative of the lack of RESPECT of the authority of God Almighty. Aside from repentance and surrender to the dependence on the the SACRIFICIAL BLOOD of Jesus alone there is NO OTHER WAY. Scriptures clearly state Jesus is the LAMB of God. The ONLY approved, holy, perfect sacrifice for forgiveness of sin provided by God is JESUS Himself. HELL if presented as fire and brimstone where the fires never end. The reality is: God is good and none are good but fGod. Our good is as filthy rags. If all good is removed then only evil remains. Eternal separation from God-- THAT alone is hell. God is loving, kind and forgiving as portrayed in the Prodigal Son. The Father stayed where he was. It was the REPENTANT SON who came back to the FATHER. Loving arms received him. WHEN he came home repentant. Those of SODOM and Gomorrah refused repentance and mockingly, wanted to sexually abuse even the Holy Angels sent. Jude 1:7. Fire, Brimstone RAINED DOWN. Eternal destruction followed their refusal of the Holiness of the messengers. It was the petitions of Abraham to God that saved his nephew. Even Lot's wife was eternally destroyed. Be careful how we dismiss the Holy Justice of God. The FEAR of God is real . IT IS IN THE Hands of an Almighty God's judgement we will stand. WHERE WILL YOU BE? CHOICE. GOD HAS LAWS. Are you following? Or are you rebelling?

[@SeriouslyAwesome]

I heard an Orthodox monk once say, "You cannot know proper Christology without knowing proper demonology". Game changer for me

[@plainspokenpod]

Yeah it is worth distinguishing between Eastern Orthodox and orthodox. Not the same. Protestants disagree with Eastern Orthodox having a monopoly on the word ‘orthodox.’

[@SeriouslyAwesome]

@@plainspokenpod I've never met a protestant monk

[@yomuno2511]

​@@plainspokenpod Would the same not apply to distinguishing Roman Catholic and catholic?

[@plainspokenpod]

@@yomuno2511 Yeah, I think so. If a Christian doesn't imagine himself to be both catholic and orthodox, then I don't think he has a right self-understanding. These should be things that all true believers should be aiming for.

[@jeffreyhamer3107]

read mary baxter's testimony revelation of hell

[@daneliasosa6077]

Keep the seventh day sabbath and the Holy Spirit will help guide you Sunday is going to challenge the Ten Commandments. Wake up

[@daneliasosa6077]

This is why you were not chosen to do the work of the earths last chance to reflect the image of Christ fully which is righteousness by faith in verity

[@daneliasosa6077]

Minute marker 22:50

[@daneliasosa6077]

God is love but God’s love does not include allowing sins and errors to fester in the body of the church and its willful commitment to sinful living and promoting acceptance of any sinful habits of any kind Jesus always said sin no more. Over and over again and again we must prepare for the latter rain of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that our sins may be completely blotted out and we may not have any memories of our past sins and have the victory over the world and the beast and his image. Apostate church religion and the repeat acts of the dark ages like what the Roman Church did

[@daneliasosa6077]

These are serpent language

[@daneliasosa6077]

The Bible uses a future tense as. Hell is reserved for the devil and his angels and his followers. How can God remain Holy if hell is everlasting punishing. This teaching of eternal hell is serpent language and is made up. By Roman Catholicism

[@profitglen]

I'm out, and easy thumbs down. I will not listen to people claiming God is a monster burning people in hell forever. If God is real, thats a big fat lie!

[@plainspokenpod]

It is so strange that people in our culture think they can give a thumbs up or thumbs down to who God is and what he does. Good luck with that, buddy.

[@profitglen]

@@plainspokenpod Pipe down buddy. No, I'm giving YOU a thumbs down with your lie about Hell. BTW, your threats don't scare me in the slightest. I am fully confident if there is God, I am safer than all the preachers that are fakes, liars, manipulators, abusers, charlatans, etc.

[@plainspokenpod]

@profitglen So...nobody is making you watch my content. You found my content here and decided you had enough time and energy to give an unsolicited condemnation. The allegation that I'm lying seems strange. If you have something substantial to offer, I can consider a critique. If you want to just troll, though, it isn't hard for me to just ignore you or block you if you keep insulting me without substance.

[@profitglen]

@@plainspokenpod This is a public video. I had no idea what your views would be before I clicked on your video. I believe there is zero proof of eternal torment in the Bible and that the teaching does a lot of harm. Feel free to block me. I have nothing else to say to you and won't ever watch any of your content, and have unsubbed. You seem way too touchy and immature to have discussions.

[@plainspokenpod]

@@profitglen So you subscribed to me? Before watching my stuff? And then got angry, started a fight, then unsubscribed? And I'm touchy and immature. Okay. Bye.

[@jamesschroder5944]

I need neither the promise of heaven nor the threat of hell to serve the Lord God Jehovah and his son, Jesus. If you have to pose the specter of eternal damnation to win souls for Christ, then you have already lost that battle for you missed the whole point of the Gospel. Conversely, is a follower who only serves God to avoid hell really a follower or a hostage? Unless we change our message and quickly, the corporate church will die and deservedly so.

[@plainspokenpod]

Take it up with Jesus, who scared people with hell more than once. If you're going to fault folks for practicing what Jesus preached, then, yeah, that's between you and him. Both Old and New Testaments utilize fear and threat as a means of cajoling stiff-necked people into obedience. To act as though these measures are unnecessary or even harmful flies in the face of the scriptural witness.

[@eileenthrift8259]

​@PlainSpoken Thank you for standing up for the truth, Jeffrey. Your response was well done.